HOMEBREW Digest #1768 Thu 29 June 1995

Digest #1767 Digest #1769

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Lautering, continued (Jim Busch)
  Help ("Diggles, Damien")
  Re: harvesting yeast -- complex? worthwhile? (Jeff Frane)
  Plugs / Burners (Norman C. Pyle)
  Attenuation Question (Russ Brodeur)
  Marmite/All-Grain brewing time (Steve Robinson)
  Dropping deja vu (Btalk)
  rotating(?) sparge arm (Btalk)
  Vinegar, Snobbery, and Rye. (Russell Mast)
  Hop Plugs (Jeff Stampes)
  beer system (LimaWiskey)
  RE: Hops Fertilizer (Art McGregor)
  hbd (troussos)
  Hop Plugs (Ken Schroeder)
  Rye Addendum (Jacob Galley)
  Belching mini-kegs! ("Clay D. Hopperdietzel")
  Rousing, Racking, Dropping, Aerating (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  Re: Hop Utilization at High Altitude (rdevine)
  Seltzers? (Martin Lodahl)
  Hot spots/ cleaning (Eamonn McKernan)
  False Bottom in Zapap (Robert Parker)
  Kegging Equipment (SweeneyJE)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 10:53:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Lautering, continued In digest 1766, Matt comments on Dr. Fix and my own comments regarding sparging: < Somewhere (BT,HBD, his Vienna-Marzen book) George Fix wrote that shorter <sparges make for rounder more malty and bigger beers. I looked in the Vienna book and found very little relating to sparging or flow rates in particular. Thus, I surmise you are refering to HBD submissions. What Dr. Fix wrote was that one can increase the malty character of a beer by reducing or eliminating the sparge (Im paraphrasing here). An important factor in this was the shifting of some of the quantity of water that would normally be used for sparging into the mash, if I recall correctly. This is not a suprising concept to me, but one would not normally create recipes based on this approach. One of the terms we need to define is what constitutes the sparge. Does the time that a brewer reports as sparging include any recirculation, or is merely the time between the initiatation of the sparge and the termination of the runoff? Since the period required to achieve suitably clear sweet wort varies with systems, lets define sparge as only the period between commencement of the sparge and the filling of the kettle. In August '94 Darryl Richman posted: <One of the interesting things I learned while researching "Bock", and <which I included in the book, is that the folks at Weihenstephan have a <general recommendation for lautering decoction mashes at a pretty slow <rate, which is based on the surface area of the lauter tun (assuming a <uniform depth and a uniform drainage). By specifying the rate per <square area, they are really describing a particular flow rate of fluid <through the bed. The rate recommended was approximately 1 gallon / (6 <minute * square foot) to start, speeding up to 1/4 as the wort thins <out. (I'm quoting from memory, always a dangerous thing.) These <figures are quoted from volume 2 of Narziss' "Die Technologie der <Bierbereitung". Also, Narziss indicates a shallower bed for decoction <mashes than Hough et al in "Malting and Brewing Science" do for <infusion mashes. This clearly indicates the importance of lauter tun geometry on flow rates as they relate to the surface area of the tun. It also points out that sparge times vary with mashing programs and malts (and surely influenced by the desires of the brewer with respect to the finished beer). Assuming a 60 minute lauter, this flow rate would yield 10-14 gallons of sweet wort. So, it would appear that Dr. Narziss is in aggreement with my previous comments, at least with respect to decoction mashing. Note that Noonan suggests between 2-4 hours for sparging, but also suggests that with a bed depth of 6" and using 6 row malt one can sparge in as little as 30 minutes. Dr. Fix has also posted several data points with respect to mashing efficiency and extract yield (a far more interesting topic IMHO). To wit: < Data < brew size = 15.5 gals < total water = 9.5 gals in mash + 9.5 gals for sparging < grain bill : 24 lbs. D-C Pale Ale malt < 2 lbs. D-C Caravienne < 1 lb. D-C Aromatic < < Temperature Program < 40C (104F) - 30 mins.- 24 lbs. base malt + 6.5 gals. water < Transition 40 to 60C - add 3 gals. of boiling water - add < adjunct malts at the end as a brake - less than 5 mins. < is needed < 60C (140F) - 30 mins. < Transition 60 to 70C - external heat is needed and this can < be done in 15 mins. < 70C (158F) - 30 mins. < % extract = 22P (i.e., 22 grms extract per 100 grams mash) < SG =1.092 < Converting to wt/vol and US units the % extract comes out to 62.24 < 62.24*9.5/31 = 19.1 lbs. extract. < Yield in commercial units is 19.1 * 100/27 = 70.7%. < Yield in homebrew units is 92 *9.5 /27 = 32.3 pts/(lbs/gal). < By using a slower runoff and a higher fraction of sparge water it is < likely one could leach most of the residual extract out of the grains. < I choose not to do this because this is not the way I brew. The finished < wort in the fermenter typically cames out as follows: < Vol = 15.5 gals. < % extract = 13.3 P < SG =1.053 < This means that a final yield of 30.4 pts was obtained. With a single < temperature mash (or 60-70 combo) this would have dropped into the < 26-28 pts/(lbs/gal) range. And Matt reports: <After reading this I redesigned my converted 1/2 barrel mash-lauter tun and <now I routinely get a 25 to 30 min. sparge with 20 - 25 # of grain. I always <get 34+ points to the pound and my beer has greatly improved. What kind of malts, what kind of mashing program? What are the volumes of cast out wort and the OG? How did you "redesign" your mash-lauter tun to reduce the sparge time? Did you reduce the quantity of sparge water, or increase the flow rate? What was the SG of the final runnings? I would be highly suspect of these numbers, based on the carefully controlled manner of Dr. Fix's mashing programs *and* your claims to fairly rapid sparge rates. Sure, to get the optimum extract one needs to sparge longer, but optimal extract is really not the primary goal of lautering (despite what the title of my last BT column suggested!). The primary goal of lautering is to provide the brewer with the quantity and quality of sweet wort desired. Brewers will differ as to what this means, and how to get there. Good brewing, Jim Busch Colesville, Md busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov "DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!" Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jun 1995 16:01:21 +0000 From: "Diggles, Damien" <Damien.Diggles at mcl.co.uk> Subject: Help All I am new to the homebrewing theme, recently a relative bought me all the kit to brew, by that a can of extract lager a bin and bottles etc, I followed all the instructions yet it tasted completely crap. Reading the digest i see that you brewing Guru's are making some exellent tasting beers. What equipment do i need (inexpensine and not space consuming) and what are the most effective methods of producing the beer. TIA a hopfull beginner. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 08:17:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com> Subject: Re: harvesting yeast -- complex? worthwhile? Christopher Pickslay wrote: > > What advantages are there to harvesting and re-using the yeast from a prior > batch, besides saving a few bucks? Does it noticeably improve the beer over > using fresh liquid yeast? My impression from the last few posts on the > process is that it seems like an awful lot of work. > One particular advantage is that fermentation greatly increases the number of available yeast cells. This, in turn, means that you can pitch massive quantities of yeast (i.e., *correct* quantities) in the next batch. This, in turn, means shorter lag times and shorter fermentation periods. The truth is that harvesting yeast from the fermenter is absurdly simple, although it's possible to make it more difficult. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 9:19:15 MDT From: Norman C. Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: Plugs / Burners Russel Mast writes about hop plugs: >> From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur) >> I contacted one of the hop houses on the west coast, and inquired about >> availability of plugs, since I personally prefer them. I was told they >> were >> of inferior quality to both whole and pellet hops. >> Is this true?? > >It's not only not true, it almost sounds like a lie. I consider hop plugs in >many ways to be the best of both worlds. If there is only one company making >them, then it could be your hop house makes no money on them, and has a >vested interest in considering them inferior. Maybe there are problems I >don't know about, but I've used them in about a dozen batches with not a >single problem. I think you're overreacting to this, Russel. See my previous post about plugs. An obvious drawback of plugs, BTW, is that the pressure used to create them is enough to burst probably all of the lupulin glands in the flowers. This should, in theory, expose them more to oxygen. Combine that with the long boat ride(s), and I can certainly believe the poor assessment of them from the "hop house" previously mentioned. Hop quality is probably the most debatable topic in brewing, BTW, so I can agree to disagree on this without a second thought. ** Glen Hathaway wrote: > I also have probably a dozen or so natural-gas hot-water tank burners >kicking around - both 36000 and 50000 BTU. How well do these work as >wort boiling heat sources? Are they big enough to do 5 gallon full boils >in a reasonable amount of time? Has anyone out there tried up-rating one >of these things to a higher BTU rating by drilling the orifice? If so, Glen, I use this type of burner for 10+ gallon boils with no problem. Fairly short lag times to boiling. Mine are converted from natural gas use to propane, which I believe gives them a substantial BTU gain. Maybe you can quantify the difference here. I used a larger orifice bought from a shop that sells propane - they have a handy conversion chart on their wall. I haven't pushed the limits of the burners, though; let us know what you find out about that. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 11:27:35 -0400 From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur) Subject: Attenuation Question I have a hypothetical question or two. Let's say we are using an ale yeast strain with a max apparent attenuation of 77% and vary our mash parameters such that all the extract is fermentable, with an OG around 1.060. Exactly how this is accomplished is moot. Going strictly by the max AA of our yeast strain we should wind up with an FG of ~ 1.014. 1) Would a "normal" yeast strain attenuate beyond its stated max level, and if so, how much? 2) Assuming only 77% AA, would the finished beer taste "sweeter" than one which contained some more dextrinous components? i.e. do shorter chained sugars taste sweeter than longer ones? (note the highly technical lingo used here) Just curious ;^) TTFN Russ Brodeur (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 11:28:53 EDT From: Steve.Robinson at analog.com (Steve Robinson) Subject: Marmite/All-Grain brewing time OH NO!! The Marmite thread that ran amok on the soc.culture.british newsgroup about 6 mos ago has spilled over onto the HBD!! Must be a symptom of the Good Times virus, which I suspect also caused the Stardust bow-tie effect. For the record, Marmite is wonderful stuff. It's also a Brit thing. Like chip butties and real ale, it loses something in translation. Trying to explain the concept to an American will result in nothing more than looks of incredulity and disgust. Also for the record, Vegamite is a cheap imitation produced on the other side of the world that can't even begin to compare to Marmite. Now that I've thoroughly upset all the Aussies, on to some beer related stuff. Several posts recently have brought up the issue of the time expenditure required for all-grain brewing. This is one area where your mileage will definitely vary, by quite a lot. The first few all-grain batches will probably consume a lot of time. As you get more used to the process, and your procedures become more efficient, the time will go down. You can also take some proactive time-saving steps, such as installing an activated-charcoal water filter so you don't have to preboil, and boiling on a propane cooker instead of the stovetop. With practice, it is definitely possible to get to the point where you can (infusion) mash on a weeknight, and yes, it is very possible to mash with a toddler underfoot. Brew on, Steve Robinson steve.robinson at analog.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 11:37:56 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: Dropping deja vu Domenick expanded on and clarified my post about dropping vs racking. You know how it is...sometimes you only _think_ you said what you really meant;) In the dropping experiments I did, I dropped the beer at different times during the primary ferment ( ie nearer the end, or more in the middle). I also splashed (aerated) a little, or more than a little. A 'little' is being vague, but I'm still not sure how much is enough with out going overboard Anyhow, the whole idea of aerating during fermentation is kinda scary to me and certainly something I had never done before, being the oxidation paranoid guy that I am. As Andy says, the ESB yeast is a diacetyl producer anyway. I used this yeast for both my dropping attempts. In my experience, dropping it while fermentation is more active with 'more' splashing/aeration does noticeably increase diacetyl. What led me to dropping beers was that my beers rarely produce noticeable diacetyl, and I wanted to be able to create it for those styles that are supposed to have it, just to round out the flavor profile. The one time that I had tons of diacetyl was from an abbreviated ferment using Wyeast 2308 Munich lager yeast. I look forward to the results of the vinegar yeast wash trials. Later, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 11:37:58 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: rotating(?) sparge arm Dion, Does your sparge arm rotate on its own? What type/size holes are in the arm? Regards, Bob Talkiewicz,Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 10:37:57 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Vinegar, Snobbery, and Rye. > From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> > Subject: Acid washing yeast > Please include the brandname in the > message. My guess is that a particular brand of vinegar is going to be > pretty consistent for pH over different manufactured batches. Vinegar, unless its a funky craft-brewed vinegar, is required to maintain a certain pH. Actually, they're required to maintain a certain %age acetic acid, but this is proportional to pH. They also list the %age on the label. So, any 6% vinegar is going to have about the same pH as any other. I'm going to try vinegar washing my yeast next time around. (First the pH paper...) > From: Nicholas Christopher <ir001265 at interramp.com> > Subject: Salvaging gushers? > > > I've got a really nice IPA that I made up but about every > third one is a gusher (must not have mixed the bottling > sugar/malt in evenly ?). Is there an easy way to salvage > these - pour them into a pitcher and let it settle or some > such? Sounds more like an infectoin to me. If so, the ones that are gushers now may be bombs later, especially if you used cheap bottles. > From: chrispix at uclink2.berkeley.edu (Christopher Pickslay) > Subject: RE: Harvesting fermenter yeast > > What advantages are there to harvesting and re-using the yeast from a prior > batch, besides saving a few bucks? High pitching rate. I don't usually store used yeast without a batch of beer on it, but I have 'pitched' yeast from primary dregs by simply aiming the output of my chiller right into the carboy with the dregs in it. It has the usual advantages of high pitching rates. > From: Mark King <mking at sparc1.castles.com> > Subject: Please add > > Please add me to the list Should we tell him? > From: Otto Radtke <IZZY126 at MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> > Subject: Rooty-Tooty-Fresh-N-Fruity Lambic > > > I just bought a pair of Lambics from some outfit that calls itself the > Brewery De Troch Wambeek. They put together some tropical lambics with > strawberry and banana flavors. I hate to be a stickler for style, but I'd as soon brew a Bud Lite clone as a De Troch. Try a Boon Gueze. De Troch is more "lamb-ic" than Sam Adams' Cranberry Copyright, but not much. > From: Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov > Subject: Flakey question > > Flakes > I'd like to thank Jacob Galley and Russ (Mast?) for his Brown Rye Ale > recipe and ask a question. His? It's Jake's recipe. I just sit around and drink and boil water for him. (Actually, the last batch was brewed at my house with a combination of his and my equipment...) > what's the difference between malt & flakes? Rye malt has been malted. THey soak it, let it start sprouting, and then dry it. It's got enzymes. I've been told it imparts a reddish color. Flakes have just been flaked. > How are flakes made? Same as oatmeal. I'm not positive, but I think raw grains are pressed between metal rollers at high temps and pressure. This gelatinizes most (all?) of the starches, but does not malt the grain, and doesn't, in my limited experience, alter the taste much. Malted Rye will taste different from flaked rye, in the same way that malted barley and raw barley will be different. > Why would flaked barley, wheat or rye be preferable to malted (as I've seen > in recipes)? Depends entirely on the recipe. (Actually, Jake has used other forms of unmalted rye, and found the flakes far easier to brew with and we haven't noticed a difference in taste.) If you're making a Bavarian Wheat beer, you want to use malted wheat. If you're brewing a Belgian Wit, you want unmalted wheat. If you're brewing Jake's Famous Rye, you want unmalted Rye. If you're making a stout, you want malted barley, unmalted barely, and unmalted toasted barley. It depends on the style. > What is the malt:flake usage conversion ratio? 0:0 > I've seen > flaked wheat in wit recipes; do flaked adjuncts add to cloudiness more > than malt? Yes. Jake's Famous Rye is not cloudy. But, unmalted adjuncts increase the risk of haze more than malted ones, generally speaking. > Thread-searching garnered usage info: just add flakes to the mash? Yep. > Seems that flakes would make the mash thick or gummy; am I correct > in assuming that in 10-20% quantities this would not pose a problem? I've used flaked wheat up to 50% with little problem. Flaked Rye would probably be in the same category. Flaked Rye in the qtty's we use doesn't bug the sparge. Cooked Rye Berries, as little as 10%, can be a big PITA. The primary advantage in using flakes vs. using other unmalted adjucts is that they don't gum up the mash as much. The advantage of malted vs. unmalted adjunct is totally style dependant. If you want to use Jake's recipe, or a modification of it, with malted Rye, feel free. It won't be the same beer, but it might be a good beer. I want to hear about your beer either way. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 95 15:20:17 MDT From: stampes at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes) Subject: Hop Plugs re: the supposed inferiority of hop plugs I wouldn't doubt this statement. I have absolutely no scientific data to back this up, but my guess would be the following: To make these plugs, the are compressing the hops (obviously). In the process, they are bursting many of the resin glands which is where most of the flavor and potency of the hops resides. I would imagine that this would have to result in some degradation of the hops. Thoughts? Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 11:51:17 -0400 From: LimaWiskey at aol.com Subject: beer system Collective: I am an extract ( convenience, security) brewer thus far but am making the jump to all-grain ( enjoyment, cost, historical purity) . My motivation is cost. It is easier for me to rationalize more beer toys if indeed I am brewing beer from grain. Something about the primal forces of beer production .... some inner urge ....and the fact my friends look at each other in a knowing way when they discover I didn't use gain to make the nectar they enjoy. Why I am consulting the collective is that I am finalizing my procurement list (auctions, discount houses, and the like). This is the big one - my system for the next several years. I wonder if the 10" Gott cooler/Phalse bottom arrangement will be sufficient for the 15 gal batches I plan to ferment. These would include stouts (rarely) and I imagine 25 lbs of crushed grain would be the upper limit of capacity for mashing. I plan to use steam infusion for the temp boost. Matt Howell recently commented on the system for control boost for 4 gal H2O and I believe that for the 5 gal H2O + 20 LB grain bill that additional volumes of stream may be desirable. High volume low pressure production (10# or less differential) would seem wise to avoid blowing mash (now steam mash) out of the Gott and onto me. I have calculated the thermo requirements for the heat transfer - but does anyone know of an easily obtained steam vessel in the 3 1/2 gal. range ? Counter weighted blowoff, of course. For my new fermentors, I want to use stainless steel milk cans. I remember seeing some 12 gal. stainless when I was in Ireland. Is there a source for these items in the US ( anyone near an Mennonite community know of these ?) They seem perfect - easy to open (gummygoo - re: Kirk) and clean/sanitize. I am a little anal about sanitation and produced some fine Clorox flavored brews in the earlier days. I still have a batch I am trying to learn to drink. ( I have learned the error of my ways). I'll use a replacement bath immersion cooler for the hot wort. With mild agitation, this cooling method has worked given my copious quantity of 50*F well water. (Can't use it for brewing - surface water contaminants from industrial ag chemicals). I am planning on constructing a 15 gal. boiler out of a keg of questionable origin. My roller mill is in the design phase now along the league of the PVC roller mill (Will Self style ?) and the prototype looks functional though it will need expansion for high-volume grind to reduce crush time to a few minutes. \\ Boiler, Gott-Tun, Steam boost, Roller-mill, and stainless fermentors. Except for a yeast lab, is there anything else I could add ? I would appreciate comments on this concept because I new to grain and I am curious - will my beer be ruined ? (WMBBR). Private reply is fine. - Oh, I have a fermenting rock cellar with a poured slab fermenting bench. It is just the thing any brewery would envy and I had nothing to do with its construction. I am just lucky. (ales in summer, lagers in winter ... ) . limawiskey at aol.com jd sprague co-owner of the Das Nagatier Haus brewery. Lawrence , Ks. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 09:01:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> Subject: RE: Hops Fertilizer Hi All! Sorry for not posting the responses to my question from early June on fertilizers for hop plants. Work and home got a little busy :^( The post yesterday from Dan Roman (which appears to have been lost in cyberspace for three weeks ... sound like the work of those bow tie yeast loving aliens!) reminded me that it was overdue. With all the good suggestions, I'm sure I won't have any problem finding one that works for me. The Japanese beetles started eating my plants last week, so I got out the Liquid Sevin, since it was handy, and it seems to have done the trick. I bought some Retonne (?) which is supposed to be a biodegradable insecticide, only problem is that it is a powder. I will disolve it in water and spray it on next time. With all the hops I'm expecting, my beers will be Hoppy to see it :^) Anyways, here are the responses, just be careful not to burn the roots when you add fertilizer. * * * * * * * * * * From: Kurt Crake KCrake at aol.com I just happened to be reading my way through "Growing Hops" by David Beach. Summarizing what he says about fertilizer: Use manure and straw to mulch the hills - water will pick up the nutrients and carry them to the root zone. If you must use a commercial (chemical) fertilizer, you should keep in mind that the fertilizer must 1)supply nutrients missing from your native, unmodified soil, and 2) replace what the hop plants "use up". In order to determine what's missing from your soil to begin with, you need a soil analysis. If you don't want to do that, Beach gives the proportional mix for fertilizer applied at a commercial hopyard in Oregon as 90 lbs of nitrogen, 200 lbs phosphorus, 190 lbs potassium, 50 lbs sulfur, and 3 lbs of boron per acre. You can use the proportions of these to select an appropriate "off the shelf" fertilizer by looking at the "N-P-K" ratio shown on the labels. You probably won't find boron or sulfur listed as adjunct ingredients, but Beach suggests that these were likely added because of a deficiency pointed out by the local soil analysis done at the hopyard. * * * * * * * * * * From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu Miracle grow and the like are immediately-available high-nitrogen products good for stimulating growth of above-ground parts. They do not hang around in the soil at all, which is why they are formulated for use in the watering water. I use a slow-release 10-10-10 which I put, in small handfuls, in one or two shovel-jabs (i.e. jab the shovel about 4-6" into the ground, make a slit, dump in the fertilizer, and stomp it shut) near the roots but not right in at the stalk. For most of my plants and shrubs, I figure that the minor root damage is more than made up for by the benefit of the fertilizer. I do, however, align the blade perpendicular to the trunk of the plant, and move out to the edge of the dripline (not much help on a vine - there I just move out "some"). You may also want to just poke a small hole in the ground with your finger or a stick and put the fert in there. Works great. BTW - just sprinkling it on the ground will work, too, it's just not as effective a delivery method. * * * * * * * * * * From: Neil Flatter FLATTER%MHS at mhs.rose-hulman.edu The book "Growing Hops" by David Beach, suggests specific pounds per acre for commercial yards. The ratios ended up being something close to a 10-20-20 for a commercial blend. Not knowing any different, I thought I could just walk into the local garden shop and buy it right off the shelf. What I walked out with was three different bags so I could blend my own fertilizer. The book also suggests adding about a tablespoon of borate per hill. I didn't find any boron at the garden shop either so I've added some 20 Mule Team to my blend. We use it in our stockroom as a technical grade of sodium borate, if you're not chemically inclined. As far as application rate, I don't have a good measure for you. You might also consider digging out enough of the soil from a mound as to accommodate a new application of composted manure. It's not that I'm against commercial fertilizers, but Mother Nature has a way of taking care of such things on Her own if given the chance. * * * * * * * * * * From: Dan Roman romand at dialogic.com Cow manure and Miracle Grow have too quick a release for hop plants, cow manure might even burn the roots. A slow long-term release fertilizer like bone meal is a better choice and bone meal gives a near perfect nutrient mix for those rhizomes. Just wish I could keep my dog from digging under the fence to get at the bone meal every time I put some down! My dog is a nut though, he actually likes and will roll in dog repellant. I'm not a professional hop grower, I just have my Williamette, Cascade, and Tett growing in my back yard. They have always thrived with bone meal and a little bit of mulching with leaves in the spring from the previous fall. I'll just relax and dump some bone meal on them once a month like I've been doing for the past four years. * * * * * * * * * * From: Brian Cornelius bcorneli at wsu.edu I add well mulched manure at the end of the season. However, during the season, I make a "manure tea" and pour that around the plants. I take a 5 gal bucket and fill it half full of manure (horse and mule for me). Then add water until everything is covered. Stir it a bunch, and let sit (outside) for a few days. Pour the liquid on the hops and dump the manure in the compost pile. And no, I really don't notice a bad smell, but then I usually use manure that has dried out in the sun for a few days. * * * * * * * * * * Hoppy Brewing, :^) Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Northern, Virginia, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 11:26:32 -0500 From: troussos at fefjdcc.attmail.com (troussos) Subject: hbd I've been brewing for sometime now and can't seem to completely eliminate the chill haze. I use Irish Moss and have modified the amount of time I boil the Iish Moss from 1 - 2 minutes to 20 - 30 minutes. But no success. Any suggestions on what I should do or add to eliminate the haze ??? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 09:14:21 PDT From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder) Subject: Hop Plugs The past few HBDs referances a lack of US hops in plug form. For a reference, my local hombrew shop, Bucket of Suds, has many US hops in plug form. From memory, the shop carries Cascade, Willamette, Perle, Hood and others. Many European varieties including Germann Northern Brewer, East Kent Goldings, Tettnagger, Hallertauer, are usually instock. The plugs were brought in response to demanding customers (I take pride in that ;-) who will not settle for second best products. I am not sure which hop house Ben, the owner, purchases the plugs from, but it may be Hop Union. The quality of hop plugs, IMHO, is outstanding. Pellets produce a glop at the bottom of my mash tun which the wort will not flow through. The quality of the hop bitterness, flavor and aroma seems fair to good. Pellets are execellent for dry hopping. The compact size makes them easy to get into the carboys. I have yet to see a bag of "flowers" contain mostly flowers. These bags should be called cone leaves or crushed cones. Flowers tend to oxidize, which not a problem with properly stored pellets and plugs. Flowers quality seems to go up and down and many times appear light green and brownish, a sure sign of aged hops. Probably the best testimony to plugs is the 90% plus cones I find in the mash tun after boiling. My hop utilization went up when I switched to plugs. That may be a subjective determination, but almost all who know my beers claim an increase in hoppiness. It is my hope that the superior packaging (IMHO) becomes popular and we may find plugs for all of our favorite hop varieties. By the way : I have no financial interest in Bucket of Suds other than I hope it makes enough money to keep Ben in business. Ben can be reached at bsuds at aol.com. Hoppy Brewin' (of course) Ken Schroeder Sequoia Brewing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 11:10:41 CDT From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Rye Addendum Russell Mast wrote: > > I don't usually store used yeast without a batch of > beer on it, but I have 'pitched' yeast from primary dregs by simply aiming > the output of my chiller right into the carboy with the dregs in it. It > has the usual advantages of high pitching rates. Another idea is to bottle the slurry and let it go dormant in your fridge until you want to use it again. Next time, make a starter for it just like you would for new Wyeast. > > From: Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov > > Subject: Flakey question > > > > Flakes > > I'd like to thank Jacob Galley and Russ (Mast?) for his Brown Rye Ale > > recipe and ask a question. You bet. > Cooked Rye Berries, as little as 10%, can be a big PITA. Let me emphasize this. DON'T USE RYE BERRIES. You have to crush them somehow (MaltMill would probably handle it; I used an electric coffee grinder, which made a floury mess) and then boil them into a gruel, which itself takes about an hour, before the mash even starts. And they make the mash much more gummy than do flakes. There is no point. In my experience the flavor of berries is just the same as flakes. > If you want to use Jake's recipe, or a modification of it, with malted Rye, > feel free. It won't be the same beer, but it might be a good beer. I want > to hear about your beer either way. Me too! The recipe I posted Monday comes out as a fairly strong tasting (spicy), hoppy, bronze ale with a nice creamy head. Extra creamy if you serve it from a Party Pig instead of a bottle. I have never gotten my hands on malted rye, but you should probably show some restraint (ie. 1 lb.) the first time you use it. Jake. Stand up and use your ears like a man! <-- Charles Ives Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 12:19:55 -0500 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" <hoppy at appsmiths.com> Subject: Belching mini-kegs! david lawrence shea <dshea at indiana.edu> stands accused of saying: >>Subject: Solution: *Never* have puffed or bulging 5l kegs again >> >>Okay, so the subject header may be a bit grandiose, but after Chris >>Strickland wrote about puffed out kegs during the warmer weather I >>thought I would offer my solution. >> >>All that is needed is to stick a kitchen (dull) knife between the the top >>of the mini keg and the outer lip of the bung. Push into the center very >>hard and excess CO2 will bleed out. It will sound like a compressed air >>unit at a gas station. When you hear the CO2 flow starting to slow down >>significantly, remove the knife. I do this once a week or so until I >>encounter a time where there doesn't seem to be much excess pressure ( you >>will know it when it happens). After this, I check the pressure every >>three or four weeks, if the keg lasts that long. I have done this before, and find it to be a bad idea. What ends up happening is that the knife will scratch the coating from the minikeg, which allows rust to set in. Ruined keg either way. If you decide to try this, be careful. I've thrown out 4 minikegs so far. 2 bloated, 2 scratched. I've since gone to priming with 1/2 cup per 5gal and have no more grief with the things. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 12:39:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net> Subject: Rousing, Racking, Dropping, Aerating My earlier post included quotes from Wheeler and Protz which defined dropping. There may be other definitions, what Wheeler and Protz say may not be gospel, and definitions change over time. Based on what they *do* say and on a small number of comments from the UK homebrew digest, I think I can respond to Domenick V (#1766): > it seems to me "dropping" without aeration is called "stirring" No. The purpose of dropping is to get the beer out from between the trub and the dirty kraeusen *without* disturbing either. Also... > What distinguishes "dropping" from "stirring" and "racking" is aeration. Disagree. Dropping is distinguished from stirring in that the *purpose* is to avoid dredging up the precipitate in the fermenter. It is distinguished from racking only in that it is done specifically when the yeast are still in a mobile state--clean active yeast in suspension are carried over with the beer to the secondary. Dropping is earlier-than-normal racking, although one accepted rule-of-thumb is to drop when sg = .5(OG). For a slow ferment, this may not be too early, but it is certainly before clearing begins, IMO. But even with #1968, I think when sg = .5(OG) the ferment is turgid to the point of being hard to rack with a small ID line. But...*aeration IS an accepted part of dropping* according to Wheeler and Protz for those "certain" strains of yeast that they claim "may" benefit from it. As Domenick and Norm P point out, if you have a flocculant yeast such as #1968, even early racking may not get too much still suspended. Aeration may then be warranted to drive up the yeast population in the secondary. Personally I feel you've just waited too long to rack--in an open fermenter I'd expect this to be at << 24 hrs. I have had slow starts with 1968, however. This thread first surfaced when Brian Gowland was asked about the UK practise of dropping. At the time he too felt aeration was an essential part of the process. He later came back to the HBD saying he had more carefully read Wheeler and concluded he had mis-read what they had actually said--which was, "avoid aeration". I think he retained his practise of aeration, however. This is all either in HBDs from the period, or I'm just fabricating it to make my point. The definition of dropping (from the source cited) does not include aeration as a requirement--only as an option under 'certain' circumstances (unspecified). Domenick and Norm P have each cited circumstances where aeration is attractive--a process issue. Finally, you could rouse the yeast prior to racking, but again the purpose of an early rack is to get the beer off the precipitate before the healthy yeast goes stationary. If you see very little activity in the fermenter then you've waited probably too long to call it dropping. Your're racking. Maybe US brewers should say "rack and aerate" when that's what they mean, to avoid misunderstandings. If you say "I dropped the beer at...", you can still expect to be asked, "Did you also aerate?" You're views may differ, but this is how the terms are used from my limited virtual experience. Corroborative viewpoints warmly welcomed, but please, as always, no wagering. :-) KRF Colorado Springs "Not a role model. Not even a real person. Just a cartoon." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 12:22:11 TZ From: rdevine at microsoft.com Subject: Re: Hop Utilization at High Altitude Luke <LAVANSA0_at_WC-DENVER at ccmail.wcc.com> asks in HBD #1766: Whilst brewing this weekend, (and planning to move operations up the hill, literally) I tried to reason out how to adjust recipes (or if I even need to) to counter the effects of altitude, ie, lower boiling temperature and therefore(?) lower hop utilization and/or isomerization. Does anyone out there have any words of wisdom or tips? There appears to be nothing special about the temperature of the boil to affect alpha acid isomerization. I lived in Colorado Springs at ~6,500 ft and now in Redmond, WA at ~400 ft but I detected no real difference in utilization whether the water was boiling at 212F or ~200F. The key is that isomerization occurs at high temperature with some agitation caused by the rising steam bubbles. This is not to say that a higher heat would not give a more efficient or quicker extraction -- a 250F steam extraction is probably better but not worth the bother. A recipe formulated in Boulder (elev. ~6200 ft) should work as well as one formulated in Death Valley (elev -200 ft). Bigger errors in hops use will come from the varying level of alpha acid in each package you buy, the age of the hops, how they were stored, wort gravity, and length of boil. In short, I don't see elevation as a big concern for hops (it is, of course, a different matter for boil time and expected evaporation...) I wonder how much of an economic advantage Coors brewery has because it undoubtably costs less to boil water in Golden Colorado (elev. ~6000 ft) where it is "high and dry" compared to, say, Anheuser-Busch's plant in St Louis which is lower and has a higher partial pressure of water vapor from Dat Ol' Man River. While the total cost of operation is probably the same, the expense of boiling is probably 10% less for Coors. Bob Devine Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 12:41:31 PDT From: Martin Lodahl <malodah at kriek.scrm2700.PacBell.COM> Subject: Seltzers? May I ask advice on something other than beer? I've just started experimenting with using my kegging gear to make seltzers, and I'm sure there are people out there who do this successfully already. What I've done is add the juice of a couple of lemons to about three gallons of drinking water chilled down to near freezing, then "jam it" with CO2 at pressures ranging from 10-40 psi. The results have always been the same: A crisp, refreshing beverage that doesn't hold its carbonation worth beans. Any suggestions? - Martin - -- = Martin Lodahl Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning Pacific*Bell = = malodah at pacbell.com Sacramento, CA USA 916.972.4821 = Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 15:48:56 -0400 From: eamonn at chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan) Subject: Hot spots/ cleaning Well the most likely cause of the hot spots on my RIMS heating chamber is a trapped air bubble. Though Damned if I know how to bleed it out. Maybe I'll install a small valve or something... Thanks for all the advice. And yes my terminology was incorrect, It was a flare connection that was leaking. Though the packaging called it a compression fitting. - -------------- So, what's everyone's favourite way to clean the insides of freshly soldered pipes? Can't take 'em apart to scrub all that black crap off, so what will dissolve it without wrecking the SS, copper, and brass components? That B-Brite stuff I keep hearing about? Can't find it anywhere! - ----------------- Keith Royster: Your stated address is undeliverable according to the "Mail Delivery System". eamonn McKernan eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 14:50:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Parker <parker at mote.ME.Berkeley.EDU> Subject: False Bottom in Zapap Troy (troy at oculus.jsei.ucla.edu) asked about reducing the space between Zapap buckets. My solution is to cut the bottom out of the inner bucket and set it inside the outer bucket. One might think the cut off bottom would be too small to rest inside the outer bucket, but it fits very nicely if the cut is made through the side wall of the inner bucket rather than a circular cut in the bottom of the bucket. Even a crude job works quite well. Obviously the remainder of the inner bucket is trash. My spacing between buckets occupies about a pint. Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 18:36:24 -0400 From: SweeneyJE at aol.com Subject: Kegging Equipment Hi Everybody, I have been brewing for about 3 years now, and I think that it is about time that I look into kegging my beer. Does anyone know of any places that sell kegs and any other equipment that I may need? I live in the Boston area, but if there is a mail order place I would like to know of them as well. TIA private e-mail is fine, Joe Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1768, 06/29/95