HOMEBREW Digest #1797 Wed 02 August 1995

Digest #1796 Digest #1798

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Two questions. One's stupid. (Scott Christian Gruber)
  Re: Tansy (Jeff Schroeder)
  Too Much Head (Roy Bourcier)
  Carboys / South Bay HB Supply (XDCHRISTIAN)
  Re: Wheeler/Protz "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home" Question (Brian Gowland)
  Re: Wheeler/Protz (Fredrik Stahl)
  Brewpubs in the DC area. (Steve Glidden)
  problems with secondary fermentation & high F.G.'s (HomeBrewer)
  Double Boil/Skunking Cider (Joe Pearl)
  Aeration (Pierre Jelenc)
  Hop rates for partial boils? (MJones)
  Re: Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Putting on airs (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Low carbonation problems (Steve Armbrust)
  One Last Religion Post / Post Peeves (Rich Larsen)
  RE Aeration equipment sanitizing (TimFields)
  Bones' Immersion Chilling (Jeff Stampes)
  Dave's sugar stuff/ RIMS thermistors (Eamonn McKernan)
  Temp Controller ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  Re: Temp controller ("J. Pat Martinez" )
  Strike temperature variation w/Gott Cooler... ("Bessette, Bob")
  priming ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  Frankenmuth wheat for malt (Jeff Renner)
  The Cost of Not Sparging ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller (Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA)
  Low extraction (Rich Hampo)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:13:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Christian Gruber <gruber at gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> Subject: Two questions. One's stupid. First Question: Okay. I'm 2 brews into my homebrewing career and getting the bug to brew again. I'm considering doing a California Common (A gingered steam, actually) but I'm worried that the temperature in my apt. will be too high (Buying a mini-fridge is not an option - space, $, etc..) Wyeast 2112 is supposed to work best at 58-68 degrees. Is the usual room temperature of my place (about 75 or so) going to ruin my beer? Should I even bother trying to do a lager? Any advice? Second Question: I've noticed a bunch of people using the term "Picobrewery" in their sigs. Is this the going term for a homebrewery? If so, would the Powers That Be object to my using it to describe Scottie's Plaid Label? (My homebrewery) Told you it was a stupid question. Sorry. Just curious. Peace and Beer, scg +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Give me a woman who truly loves beer and I will conquer the world." - Kaiser Wilhelm Scott C. Gruber gruber at gwis2.circ.gwu.edu +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:22:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Schroeder <jms at rahul.net> Subject: Re: Tansy Rolland Everitt asks: >Charlie Papazian mentions in one of his books that before hops >gained it's current popularity with brewers, other herbs were >used. He mentions several of these, including tansy. I happen >to have a patch of tansy growing just under my kitchen window. >Has anyone on the list used tansy? I've never used tansy for brewing, but I've pulled plenty of it out of the ground in my youth. The reason: Tansy is poisonous to some farm animals. I don't know what its effects are on humans, but you might want to find out before you throw it into the boil (or dry tansy, or employ a tansy-back). - -- Jeff Schroeder | jms at rahul.net San Jose, CA | PGP'ed mail preferred. Finger for key. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 20:38 MDT From: rjbourc at nmia.com (Roy Bourcier) Subject: Too Much Head Greetings from a virgin poster (finally the shame of lurking for oh so long begins to lift). First, thanks to everyone for fueling my enthusiasm for this most intoxicating (sorry ;-) of hobbies. Now, a question. I've been brewing for about 1 1/2 years, all grain for 1 year. For the past 6 months, I've been trying to refine my house pale ale. Started out looking for a SNPA clone, but drifted into more "floral" brew (I LOVE Cascades). With my last batch, I'm getting close - with one problem. The head on this brew is TOO THICK. It's somewhere between whipped cream and lemon meringue. =46un to have around to impress homebrew skeptics, but not what I'm looking for. I figure I probably went overboard with the head retention malts. But maybe something is off in my procedure? Here's a rundown of the brew in question: Pale Ale 8 lb 2 row Klages malt 1 lb 20=B0L Crystal 1/2 lb Cara-pils 1/2 lb Malted Wheat 1/2 oz Perle hops (60 min) 1/2 oz Perle hops (30 min) 1 1/2 oz Cascade hops (30 min) 1 oz Cascade hops (2 min) 1 1/2 oz Cascade hops (dry) RO water with 2 tsp Gypsum/5 gal, 1/2 tsp Epsom salts/5 gal, 1/4 tsp NaCl/5 = gal 1/4 tsp powdered Irish Moss (10 min) Yeast Labs American Ale Yeast (16 oz starter) Protein rest 30 min at 122=B0F Mash 154=B0F to conversion Mashout at 175=B0F and sparge at 170=B0F Boil for 60 min OG: 1.052, FG: 1.007 Bottom line: What should I change to obtain a more delicate head with minimal impact on the flavor profile of this brew? TIA for your help. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy J. Bourcier rjbourc at nmia.com "Once a guy stood all day shaking bugs from his hair." A Scanner Darkly, by Philip K. Dick Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 22:23:10 -0800 (PST) From: XDCHRISTIAN at CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU Subject: Carboys / South Bay HB Supply Hi all Does anyone have a good recipe for the Jamacian Red. I really like the malty charcter and the bitterness, flavor, nose. A while back someone asked how to obtain carboys inexpensively. I'd like to share how I have done it. I currently have 6 5-gallon carboys and an 8-gallon acid bottle. I paid $2.50 for each of the 5-gallon carboys and splurged on the 8-gallon one by paying $10. What I have done is placed an add in the Recycler (which is free) saying "Wanted large glass bottles (prefer 5-gallon or larger". Sometimes it takes a while but people call with them. One person called with 4 of them who was into making wine. They sold me all their bottles for $10.and a lot of wine making equipment for $10. I recently purchased quite a bit of stuff from South Bay Homebrew Supply in Torance CA. I've had the best service from them. I am a blind brewer and I explained to them (Ruth and Larry) that I use a computer with a speech synthesizer to read. When I asked about books, they went through the books I was interested in and read parts to see if it was what I wanted. I scan the books with a scanner which turns it into text. Anyhow, I placed an order for many things. I went to pick it up and they actually typed up the instructions on their word processor and put it on a disk. When I came in to pick up my stuff, they handed me the items requested and said, "Oh ya, here is a disk with the instructions on it". This made it very easy for me to install and use the products. I thought this was service that goes above and beyond any service I have received before. It came time for choosing my grain for the next couple of batches. They brought me in the back room and we opened buckets of different kinds of grains. We put them side-by-side and tasted them which I found very useful. I like Klages but wanted to try the British 2-row and also look at the Belgian variety as well. Well I just wanted to share my experiences with you. If you want good service along with good prices give South Bay Homebrew Supply a call at 800 608-2739. They do mail order too. Standard disclaimer here. I have no financial interest in SB Homebrew Supply, just a satisfied customer. PS. If any one knows of books in machine readable formats I would be very interested. I am so appreciative that my HBD comes to me everyday in an accessible format. I better go back to lurking before the AI robot cuts me off. Keith Christian XDCHRISTIAN at FULLERTON.EDU The blind brewer who DOES IT BETTER IN THE DARK! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:35:47 +0000 From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Wheeler/Protz "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home" Question In HBD 1796, "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> wrote: > I've now seen two (distinct, I think) assertions that this well-known > book contains "actual brewery recipes" for a hundred or so British > ales. The writers have suggested that the Wheeler/Protz recipes are > the genuine ones from the commercial breweries themselves. > I don't have the book with me right now, but the authors make several > comments in the introduction (Wheeler's many years of experimentation > and use of the computer, etc) that imply to me that this is not true. > Also, I find it very unlikely many if any of the breweries would have > divulged their recipes. My impression is ALL the recipes in Wheeler's > book are simply the authors' attempts to clone these beers. Comments? The answer is yes and no. I'll start by first mentioning "The Real Ale Drinker's Almanac" by Roger Protz (RP). This book is in its third edition and contains listings of all British breweries (as complete as possible in 1993) and lists of their ales with details of ingredients and also tasting notes. The tasting notes are written by RP but the ingredient details are genuine as supplied by the breweries themselves. Some of the breweries refused to disclose their ingredients, many only supplied the basic outline of the recipe but a few (the minority) where quite complete. By complete, I mean they mention the percentage weight of grains they use, units of colour and bitterness, and the type of bittering and aroma hops used. Onto "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" by Graham Wheeler (GW) & RP. RP wrote the introduction and the tasting notes for each recipe are taken from the above mentioned "Almanac" as were the ingredient details that GW used to create the recipes - and I stress that point, the recipes are GW's and NOT recipes as supplied by the breweries. There are exceptions to this, however, when the breweries provided exact details, GW has simply taken these details and worked out weights of grains and hops to make 25 litres in the home environment. In these cases it is obvious that the recipe is basically identical to that of those breweries. In other cases when breweries have been less specific, it was neccessary for GW to play around using various factors for colour and bitterness in order to try to clone various brews - these recipes are approximations of the real thing. GW hasn't had the time or effort to perfect every recipe and he does state that few, if any, will produce an exact copy. What the recipes should do, however, is get us close enough to allow us to fine tune them ourselves. Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 12:28:22 +0200 From: Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl) Subject: Re: Wheeler/Protz In HBD #1796, "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" writes, concerning Wheeler/Protz "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home": >I've now seen two (distinct, I think) assertions that this well-known >book contains "actual brewery recipes" for a hundred or so British >ales. The writers have suggested that the Wheeler/Protz recipes are >the genuine on >Also, I find it very unlikely many if any of the breweries would have >divulged their recipes. My impression is ALL the recipes in Wheeler's >book are simply the authors' attempts to clone these beers. Comments? I've just come back from a trip to Scotland where I took the chance to buy the book in question. The recipes are based on the information Roger Protz has managed to get from the breweries for his book "Real Ale Almanac". (An excellent book, by the way, now on it's third edition.) The information in the almanac varies between breweries; some give only OG and ABV, and many give information of percentages of malts and adjuncts, hops and IBU:s. The reason that many brewers have given away this much is by consumer pressure via CAMRA. The almanac has sold a lot and a brewery that doesn't tell what goes into their beers can be viewed as suspicious. As I understand it, what Graham Wheeler has done is to extrapolate from this information, using a computer and his brewing experience to calculate amounts of hops and so on. What he hasn't done is to actually brew the recipes to find out if they are right. However, I believe he has got some feedback from homebrewers who have and made some changes in newer editions. I think that if you have a good experience in brewing ales, you might as well buy the "Real Ale Almanac" and extrapolate from these figures yourself. A cask conditioned ale always has a somewhat unreliable taste that varies not only between casks but also during the consumption of one cask. This is one of the charms of a living product but makes it a little hard to get exactly on target. (Especially if you don't have any cask conditioned ales in your own country to compare with!) Of course, sometimes it's convenient to let someone else do the work for you and just brew up a given recipe. As I understand it many of the British homebrewers like Graham Wheeler's recipes, so they shouldn't be that far off. /Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 08:41:50 EDT From: glidden at seward.nsc.com (Steve Glidden) Subject: Brewpubs in the DC area. Hi, I am going to DC in 2 weeks and was wondering if anyone could tell me of any good brewpubs and/or local bottled beers in the area? Are there any web sites with a good listing? Thanks for your time regards, Stephen Glidden glidden at seward.nsc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 09:31:35 -0400 From: joep at informix.com (HomeBrewer) Subject: problems with secondary fermentation & high F.G.'s Hi Eric, <snip> Eric> A couple questions: Eric> 1. My current batch had a starting gravity of 1.053 and after a Eric> violent primary, measured 1.020 when racked to the carboy after 3 Eric> days. one and a half weeks into the secondary, the gravity was Eric> still at 1.020 and remained there at the 2 wk. point. I used Eric> Wyeast London Ale with a starter and the primary went like a Eric> house-a-fire after about 6-8 hrs. My local beer shop "guru" Eric> thinks it must have "fermented out" fully during the primary and Eric> he's probably right. I had expected the final gravity to be much Eric> lower. A rule-of-thum seems to be 1/4 the starting gravity. My Eric> guru thinks the final might be ok given what I put into the brew Eric> pot. Actually, I disagree. I had been having similar problems of high FG's. The problem was that I didn't have enought oxygen in the wort for the yeast to play with. Solution: *After* the wort has cooled and you've pitched the yeast, vigorously pour the wort between two containers. I'm talking about waist high to the the floor. Do this at least 4 times. My results have been FG's of 1.028 or so down to about 1.010 or so. Of course, YMMV and it will depend somewhat on what's in the brewpot. Don't be afraid to splash the wort once the temp is down! It's how you'll get the oxygen back in after boiling. <snip> Eric> So, I'm interested in hearing from others with similar Eric> experiences about a) high final gravities, b) secondaries during Eric> which nothing seems to happen except settling, c) problems of Eric> letting the beer sit on the yeast for longer than two weeks, d) Eric> problems with or how to remove small cream colored "astroids" Eric> floating at the neck of the carboy during the secondary (they Eric> settled to the bottom in my 1st batch). Asteroids: Just siphon and ignore them. For the most part, they'll stay in the carboy. <snip> Eric> Eric Palmer joe. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Joe Pearl, Sr. Sales Engineer, Informix Software, Inc. | | 8675 Hidden River Parkway, Tampa, FL, 33637 813-615-0616 | | Opinions expressed are solely my own. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | If the automobile had followed the same development as the computer, a | | Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and | | explode once a year killing everyone inside. -- Robert Cringely | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 09:36:00 -0400 From: joep at informix.com (Joe Pearl) Subject: Double Boil/Skunking Cider Hi Ray, >>>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 95 14:47:00 PDT, Ray Robert <rayr at bah.com> said: Ray> Hi All! Ray> Had two quick questions. Ray> 1. Getting ready to take the all-grain plunge but was unsure if I Ray> could pull off the boil. I have a 20 quart pot. I was thinking of Ray> doing two boils (same length of time) with half the hops Ray> additions. Can this be done? Any practical experience would be Ray> helpful. Do all your hop additions (and any adjuncts (irish moss, ...) ) in the first boil. It'll be necessary to take the second boil to the hot break (usually about 20 minutes). No hops or anything other than wort in the second boil. Keep in mind that you'll lose a lot to evaporation with the double boil - I'm still getting used to that myself :). <snip> Ray> TIA for the info. Ray> Robert Ray rayr at bah.com joe. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Joe Pearl, Sr. Sales Engineer, Informix Software, Inc. | | 8675 Hidden River Parkway, Tampa, FL, 33637 813-615-0616 | | For PGP key: send me email w/subject "send me pgp key" | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | I do not believe in an afterlife, although I am brining a change of | | underwear. -- Woody Allen | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 9:42:10 EDT From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Aeration In HBD #1796 Christopher.R.Vyhnal at Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal) asks about aeration with an airstone: >it seems to be an elegant solution to filtering microbes >out of the air. how long and what ID is your coiled tube? have you ever >had any problem batches? are there any problems with sanitizing the >airstone? The tubing is about 2 m long, 1 mm ID: It is the tubing that came with the aquarium kit. The whole assembly is immersed in iodophor during the boil, then it is connected to the pump and dried somewhat while I cool the wort. I've never had any bacterial contamination, even in beers that have sat around for 6 months and more. I do use large-to-very-large starters: The yeast is grown either in the primary in 1/2 gal of wort (which is decanted away before pitching) or on agar plates (3-5 large YPD-agar plates grown to complete confluence). [Note: I will be off the air for 3 weeks] Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 9:06:23 CDT From: MJones at swri.edu Subject: Hop rates for partial boils? I am about to embark on an Octoberfest using an extract recipe. I can only perform partial boils due to the volume limitation of my 21 quart pot. In the second issue of "Brew Your Own" magazine there is an article discussing the Octoberfest style with both all-grain and extract recipes. What caught my attention was a statement in the extract recipe section that recommended the amount of hops be increased (perhaps doubled) if performing a 3-gallon instead of a full 6-gallon boil. The reason for this was that the wort for a partial boil was not as efficient in utilizing the hops. I have not heard of this phenomena before and I wonder what the collective wisdom of the HBD has to say on this. Mark Jones Southwest Research Institute San Antonio, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 08:18:40 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller Tim states that stirring with an immersion chiller improves chilling greatly and I agree. However, stirring is a pain in the butt and because you have to open the lid to your kettle to do it, introduces the possibility (however slight) of contamination. I solved this problem by creating a motorized wort stirrer. I purchased a 150 RPM continuous duty 110V gearmotor surplus for $7 and attached it to a piece of plastic that sits on top of the keg. I made a stainless steel paddle with a 1/4" SS rod and a 3"x5" rectangle of SS sheet welded to it. The rod on the paddle is long enough that it sticks up out of the kettle by about 4". I drilled a hole in my lid and attached a shaft coupling to the motor shaft which is pointing down. At the same time that I put my immersion chiller in the boil to sanitize, I immerse the paddle in the wort as well. At the end of the boil, I make the final hop additon, put on my kettle lid, inserting the paddle rod into the hole in the lid. Then I tighten the set screw on the shaft connector to secure the rod to the motor. I then begin stirring without cooling water to mix in my final aroma hop addition and 10 minutes later, turn on the chiller water. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM MOVING!!!!! AFTER August 2nd please use: hollen at vigra.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 08:27:57 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Putting on airs >>>>> "Joe" == Joseph Fleming <Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov> writes: Joe> With all the extensive aeration systems discussed lately (O2 Joe> tanks, aeration stones, ect.) I was wondering about the efficacy Joe> of the different methods. As I understand it, the carboy shake Joe> method is insufficient. How about the "aeration wand" technique? Joe> Do O2 tanks approach the point of diminishing returns (unless the Joe> lab folks already have easy (read: free) access the equipment)? Joe> Can anyone relate experiences where this massive aeration has Joe> produced such a healthy ferment that it can be distinguished by Joe> taste? Does fermentation begin *that* much more quickly than the Joe> 6-12 hour norm? Or is this method done so that yeast recycling Joe> will garner a more mutant-free product? I am not a biologist, nor do I have any means of producing accurate quantitative assessments of dissolved oxygen and/or yeast mutations. I ferment in corny kegs and have been aerating by injecting welding O2 in through the liquid dip tube while filling up the keg with wort. I then pressurize to 20psi and then rock the keg back and forth on my knees for 5 minutes. My ferments start in about 4 hours and within 12 hours, I have large amounts of krausen coming out of my blowoff hose and into the blowoff bucket. The results in the finished product have been good enough to garner several first place awards in AHA competitions and to continually produce excellent beer. I have just changed over to using a 2 micron ss stone for oxygenation, but have not been using it long enough to have any definitive results other that to say it is at least as good as my prior method. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM MOVING!!!!! AFTER August 2nd please use: hollen at vigra.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 09:14:00 PDT From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com> Subject: Low carbonation problems Recently I made an English-style bitter that used fairly standard ingredients (British pale malt, British crystal) and Wyeast 1968 yeast. For kicks, I did a two-stage infusion mash (122 and 158). The original gravity was about 1062, which was a little higher than expected (I guess I'm getting better at this mashing and sparging stuff), and the final gravity was 1018. Desiring a little lower carbonation, I primed with slightly less than 2/3 cup corn sugar. (I know, I read the post about measuring sugar by weight instead of volume, but I've never had problems with this before.) What I've got, after about five weeks in the bottle, is beer that tastes great, but it's not as clear as other beers I've made (I used Irish Moss in the boil), and it's almost but not quite flat. On the bottom of each bottle is a thin layer of yeast that sticks rather well to the glass. It doesn't pour out into the beer, and after adding water to the empty, it takes two or three good shakes to clean it out of the bottle. Has anyone seen this happen with the Wyeast 1968 yeast? I've used it before without problems. Do you think that shaking up the bottles could dislodge the yeast and get them working again? (I'll try that with a few of them anyway.) Any other ideas on what could have caused the problem? Steve Armbrust Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 11:42:08 -0500 From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen) Subject: One Last Religion Post / Post Peeves One last post on religion. I know I know, I just wanted to let the collective know that I observed a "KOSHER" stamp on the bag of (I believe) DeWolf Cosins Malt. Shalom! ********* A pet peeve about several (it seems a lot) recent postings. WATCH YOUR LINE LENGTH! It is very annoying and difficult to read lines that look like this. Watch that wrap-around please. Now back to brewing... => Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org> ________________________________________________________________________ Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL. Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263 Spice is the varity of life. ________________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:15:18 -0400 From: TimFields at aol.com Subject: RE Aeration equipment sanitizing In #1796, Christopher.R.Vyhnal at Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal) quotes Pierre: >>> The airstone is at the end of a rigid wand connected to a long coiled flexible tubing; the whole assembly is sanitized in iodophor but no attempt is made to sterile-filter the air. <<< and then asks: >have you ever had any problem batches? are >there any problems with sanitizing the airstone? I've used my aeration kit (pump, ss airstone- from Brewers Resources) for four batches now. My fermentations may kick off a little faster, but so far the diff is minimal. My main concern in getting it was to ensure complete ferments - and in that it has been admirable. RE sanitizing: I rinse it well with hot water, soak in iodophor, rinse again with more hot water, and then immerse the stainess steel airstone in isopropol alcohol (91%) overnight. This is pretty much the recomended procedurre from BR. I do have one concern abt this process, and I think Pierre's comments may resolve it. BR recommends sanitizing and storing the hose/ss airstone as a single unit. The airstone is a bear to remove anyway (and also makes it difficult to rinse out the hose). Because of the airstone, I find it impossible to dry out the hose and that could lead to contamination. Even hanging this thing up to dry wont let it drain because the airstone, in effect, caps the hose and results in enough back-pressure that the droplets wont drop. I'm going to use Pierre's suggestion and affix the airstone to the end of a racking cane. This will require just a short piece of tubing and result in an airstone unit that is easily removed from the cane and thus easier to clean, sanitize, and DRY. the racking cane will clean and dry well, and the airhose will drip dry ok without the stone to inhibit the process. RE filtering the air - I have no data to support it, but I like the idea of using the inline filter that comes with my BR kit (filter available separately). If there is any contamination from the pump, I'd hate for it to be force-fed into my wort. Std dislaimers re BR. -Tim Timfields at aol.com (till 8/8/95) Timf at relay.com (after that) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 11:25:32 -0600 From: Jeff Stampes <jeff.stampes at Xilinx.COM> Subject: Bones' Immersion Chilling in #1796 bones described his efforts in stirring while immersion chilling. I think this may be one of the cases where some homebrewers worry about infection too much (No Bones, this is a not a shot your way!). I toss my immersion chiller into the boil with 10 minutes left to sanitize it. I stir it around a little to make sure that the parts not immediately under-wort are sanitized as well. When I connect it to the water supply and start chilling, I grab ahold of the wort chiller and just stir with that! I don't worry about covering the wort at all. I generally get to a nice cool pitching temp in 10-15 minutes. When pitching a big healthy starter, I don't worry a lot about any nasties having time to get ahold of my wort, and have remained infection free since '93! (Hmm..that could make a nice slogan for my brewery operations :) - -- Jeff Stampes -- Xilinx, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff.stampes at xilinx.com -- - -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore. -- - -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer! -- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:32:40 -0400 From: eamonn at chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan) Subject: Dave's sugar stuff/ RIMS thermistors Just loved Dave's posting about priming sugar in HBD 1796. One thought though: What about headspace? Consider a 1L PET bottle with 1/2" headspace and a 250ml bottle with 1 1/2" headspace. Hey, I don't try and give my bottles consistent headspace, and I often use different sizes of bottles so this is not far-fetched. If one is really concerned about close control of carbonation, these two bottles should have rather different levels of CO2. Maybe 10% or so? *** A summary of responses to my questions last week: Dion says Hansen quick disconnects allow easy disassembly and don't leak. He also sent me a diffent way to seal around a thermistor inside a tube sealed with epoxy (I don't know the temperature limits for epoxy, nor it's FDA rating): " Regarding your thermistor. You may want to try this. Your sizes may need to be different depending on the diameter of the brass tubing you used. Get a 3/8" compression to 1/2" NPT fitting. Throw out the ferrule. Get a "000" rubber stopper and cut off the bottom third and throw away the top. Get a stainless steel washer which will fit over the tube of the thermistor and grind it down until it will fit in the nut of the compression fitting. Insert the washer in the nut, force the stopper in the body of the fitting and screw the nut and washer down tight. Take a small drill and drill a hole into the stopper. Remove it, insert the thermistor into the stopper and then re-assemble... The thermistor is fitted into the tube with epoxy and a little bead of epoxy built up on the end to form a rounded tip to the tube. J.B. Distributing sells Morris thermistor probes which are brazed shut on the end if you don't like the epoxy idea. " No one knew how to store copper. I guess drain it and store it dry. I imagine if I filled it with an iodine based sanitizer it would just corrode faster. Don says plumbers GOOP is food grade. Again no max operating temperature. Harry Covert wants to tie his stopper to the copper tube using wire. Nick knows of a food grade high temp silicone rated to 204C. Probably hard to find but worth the effort: contact GE Silcones 800-668-4644/5 about product #'s RTV102/103/108/109. Jay Reeves also found some: URA-BOND 24-HV from Resin Technology Group, Inc. They have 2 sites: Easton, MA (508-230-8070) & Germantown, WI (414-251-2275). "The stuff has a temp range of -60C to 120C, tensile strength of 2000 PSI, elongation of 800% (that's right!) and I can't find the coefficient of expansion rating but I know it was good enough to keep a water-tight seal with brass. Cure time is 30 mins tack free, 30-40 mins handling strength, 15 mins at 150F and overnight at room temp. It's also FDA approved." Jay also told me that his company manufactures computer controlled water management devices, and they couldn't get a PID algorithm to work. They use proportional control (heating rate proportional to the difference between actual and desired temperature). Perhaps all my fiddling with PID control will lead to naught, but that isn't gonna stop me. I'm having fun! Too bad my Masters (mini-)thesis is due soon... Yours in beer, Eamonn p.s. Is there a patron saint of brewing? eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca "One more time: Speed does NOT kill. Speed isn't the problem; speed is the objective. If we weren't in a hurry, we wouldn't need freeways. We'd walk." -Jim Kenzie on highway speed limits Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Aug 1995 10:48:10 PDT From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> Subject: Temp Controller From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade) To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR Subject: Temp Controller Date: 1995-08-01 12:32 Priority: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ doug jones asks about ac temp controllers. i have used a hunter airstat and have been satisfied. cools down to 40f. freezer plugs right into the controller, and the controller into the outlet. unfortunately mine got wet with the heavy rains lately and i have to replace it (and i hope the replacement comes before hurricane erin hits town later this week - would hate to ride out a hurricane with warm beer). these are available at heart's in orlando for $30 (800-392-8322) plus s&h - no financial interest of my own, blah, blah, blah. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:05:58 -0500 From: "J. Pat Martinez" <martinez at puccini.crl.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Temp controller Hi, I purchased a temp. controlling unit made by Honeywell for about $35. I had to wire it in to replace the existing fridge temp controller. It wasn't to difficult and it works great. Has temp range from at least 0 to 90 F. I also recently learned of another temp controller made by Johnson Controls. It sounds like it's also a good unit. A319 line voltage electronic temp control ($30-35) Model # A319ABC-24-01. Has solid-state sensor that can be remote mounted so no need to worry about capillary lengths or breakage. Temp range -20 to 100 F. Differential can be set from 1 to 30 F. Both of these units have the benefit of low cost and they have a better temperature range than the Hunter airstat. The only draw back to these units is that you have to do some electrical work to hook them up. Nevertheless, I hooked mine up and I know very little about wiring. I just asked a few electrical types for advice. If your interested in any more details about either of these temp units, just let me know and I'll try and send you more info about model #'s and stuff. Pat M. % J. Pat Martinez % martinez at puccini.CRL.umn.edu % Univ. of Minnesota % Phone: (612) 625-2221 % Dept. of Plant Pathology % Fax: (612) 625-9728 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 15:20:00 PDT From: "Bessette, Bob" <bessette at msmailgw.uicc.com> Subject: Strike temperature variation w/Gott Cooler... Fellow HBDers, I usually do all-grain batches using a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a Phil's Phalse Bottom but recently I tried using a friend's Gott cooler. What I usually do is get the water temperature up to approximately 170F and then dole it in my bucket and then dole in the grains. Usually at the temperature of 170F I get a temperature after doling in grains of about 152. This time with the Gott cooler I got about 146F. I am using around 3 gallons of 170F water and 9 lbs of 2 Row Pale Malt with 1/2 lb of Carapils in the mash. Can anyone else out there from experience give me a good idea of what temperature I should be shooting for with the water to get it at 152F in a Gott cooler of this size. I am planning on making another batch tomorrow night and would appreciate any quick and experienced responses you may have... Rgds, Bob Bessette Unitrode I.C. Corporation Systems Analyst 7 Continental Blvd Information Systems Dept Merrimack, NH 03054 Email Address: (W) 603-429-8553 bessette at uicc.com FAX)603-424-3460 Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Aug 1995 11:48:11 PDT From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> Subject: priming From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade) To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR Subject: priming Date: 1995-08-01 13:27 Priority: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ i enjoyed dave draper's missive on the virtues of priming by weight, and i plan to share this with our brewclub. thanks for the effort on this one. i can recall some wide variation in carbonation in the old days (when i used to prime by volume), although i have no data to support the conclusion that this was the cause. i had hoped to find data in dave's article that actually compared various weights of the same volume of the same type of sugar to determine the variation in the volume measurement. does anyone have this data? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 16:09:00 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Frankenmuth wheat for malt In HBD 1796, Rob Lauriston said > Gambrinus also makes a wheat malt that varies according to the wheat > available. There was a local farmer grwoing a genetically low-protein > wheat called Frankenmuth and it made the best wheat malt I've ever > > seen, but that was the exception, unfortunately. Isn't it fun to meet an old friend thousands of miles from home? Frankenmuth is one of the standard soft white winter wheats bred and grown here in Michigan. (Michigan State University breeders name their wheats after old Michigan milling towns. Frankenmuth is one of these, and also home of the Frankenmuth Brewery). It is the one I sang the praises of in HBD 1789. I used it in the ginger wit I reported on and have malted it with good success for weizens. I wish the maltsters would discover it. Michigan farmers could use the business and brewers could use the fine malt. Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 10:54:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: The Cost of Not Sparging In #1796 Spencer talked about yields vs. sparge and mash liquor volumes: > ...suppose you want to make a 1.045 wort, and you want an initial > boil volume of 3 gallons. You need 1.075 (5/3 * 45 = 75) in the > kettle. This corresponds to about 1.6 qt/lb, yielding 1.2 qt/lb > into the kettle. To get 3 gallons (12 qt), you'll need to use > 12/1.2 = 10 lbs of malt and 1.6*10 = 16 qt = 4 gal of mash water I assume this is a 5 gal batch, reducing 3 gal of kettle stew to 2 gal over a 60-90 min boil, then adding to 3 gal of chilled water for 5 gal total. I compared Spencer's requirement of 10 lbs of malt with what I'd need using my normal 50-50 split of mash-sparge water. Ans: 7.6 lbs. My procedure is: Mash liquor: 7.6 lbs * 1.5 qt/lb = 11.4 qt (for mash thickness) 11.4 qt + 3 qt (under false bottom) = 14.4 qt (3.6 gal) I want 5 gal in the fermenter, plus 1 gal to boil off, plus about .2 gal for loss in the hops and hoses. 3.6 gal comes from the mash less about .8 gal stuck in the grain: (5 + 1 + .2) - 3.6 + .8 + .2 = 3.6 gal (sparge liquor) In practice I split the mash and sparge requirements about evenly, so in this case I'd go in with 3.5 gal mash water, and put about 4 in the sparge tank. I'd then shoot for about 6 1/4 gal at the start of the boil. To me, Spencer's bottom line is: 10 - 7.6 = 2.4 lbs of additional grain. At as much as $1.20/lb for British pale malt, we're looking at at most $3 more per batch. But, for the 3 extra bucks you obviate the need for a sparge tank and save 20-60 min in sparge time (depends on how long you'd take to sparge 3.5 gal). OTOH, this could represent a 25-30% increase in the cost per batch. Comments solicited, as always! KRF Colorado Springs Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 11:28:54 EST From: Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA at ccmail.eo.ray.com Subject: Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller In HBD #1796 Tim Laatcsh writes about stirring the wort to improve the performance of his immersion chiller. Tim, if I understand what you are saying, you let the chiller sit still, and stir the wort around it with a spoon. I think you can get an even better improvement in performance if you use the *chiller* to do the stirring. The heat transfer rate increases due to the increase in velocity of wort over the chiller tubes. Moving the chiller around should do a better job of this than stirring with a spoon. I recently cooled 4.5 gal of wort from boiling to 80F in 8.5 minutes using this technique. You should be able to do even better, since your tap water is apparently colder than it is here in Atlanta (23 straight days over 90F and counting). To the question of infection risk, someone (I forget who) once posted that they had cut holes in a pot lid for the vertical chiller tubes. He then was able to move the chiller around while keeping the pot covered. I just do it with the pot open. I think that the risk is small since the time that the wort is exposed to the air is short. After reading Charlie Scandrett's fascinating post "Thermodynamic Sulphur Chillout", I believe that the immersion chiller design may be better than the CF design for minimizing DMS formation, since with CF chillers, some of the wort remains at DMS producing temperatures while waiting its turn to be chilled. With the immersion chiller, all of the wort is chilled simultaneously, and the heat transfer process is faster when the wort is hotter. In other words, the wort cools from 212F to 158F much faster than from 134F to 80F (assuming the cooling water inlet temperature is constant). Tom Williams Raytheon Engineers & Constructors twilliams at ccgate.ueci.com Norcross, Georgia, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 16:57:25 -0400 From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo) Subject: Low extraction Howdy All, Well, I made the step to all grain and I am having a small problem. I brew mostly using tips and techniques from Miller, and use a Gott cooler with slotted copper manifold (1/2 inch, slots every 8 mm or so) as a lauter tun. The problem is that I am not getting good extraction. I got better extraction using a freakin' colander when doing a partial mash.... Here is an example - Weizen recipe from Miller: 2.5 lb us 6-row malt 5 lb malted wheat grain cracked on Glatt mill (The store has one and I love it....) The wheat was cracked a the widest setting - hulls cracked open but not ground to dust. The 6-row I cracked at about 3/4 setting. Got a good crush also. Heated 9 qt water to 122, added grist,ph OK , 45 min protein rest at 122. Raised temp to 150, conversion rest for 2 hours at 150-141F. Poured/scooped into lauter tun, underlet the manifold through up tube,(then corked it so as to not break vacum) and sparged. Sparged at rate of about 1 qt per 1.5 minutes to collect 4.5 gallons (I only have a 21 qt pot). Boiled, hopped, chilled to 75, checked SG and it was only 1.034! Miller says that it should be about 1.048. Somewhere I lost 1/3 of the fermentables.... The Brew was bubbling happily when I checked it this morning at T+6 hours, so my beer is not RUINED, but only WEAK. I know I undersparged, but the last runnings I collected were < 1.000 hot, had virtually no taste. Also, the spent grains looked empty and were not sweet either. My hydrometer never seemed off for my partial extract brews, and measures dead on for cool water. So the $20,000 dollar question is: WHAT GIVES! Where is the other 1/3 of the sugar? Sorry for the long post, but I was up till 1AM last night brewing/cleaning and I am kind of cranky. TIA to anyone out there who can help! Best Regards, Richard Hampo H & H Brewing Ltd. Ford Research Lab captain at vulcan.srl.ford.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1797, 08/02/95