FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  trip report part 1 of 2 (Algis R Korzonas)
  AOL Name flames (GeepMaley)
  Hunter Kaput (Kyle R Roberson)
  drawing wort/ leaky 5-liter keg (Carl Etnier)
  Homebrewing in ITALY (davide.arzarello)
  SG corrections (the easy way) ("ath at merkur.sds.no")
  Yet *more* dilution stuff (Aidan "Kicked in his conspiracies" Heerdegen)
  More immersion wort chillers (BF3B8RL)
  The Most Powerful Beer in the Universe (Bill Andreas/BOSTON/PART/CSC)
  More on B-Brite again/Fuzzies in RIMS (DONBREW)
  Brewpubs in Atlanta (Danny Mastre)
  wort starters (Rob Emenecker)
  Chillers & stirring ("Keith Royster")
  Re: Dead Hunter Airstat (Jim Griggers)
  re: Why no head? (Dave Whitman)
  Re Molson Signature Series (Ed Hitchcock)
  ...and even more on siphoning/oxidation. (Ben Adair)
  ...no subject... ("Michael R. Swan")
  Re: Braided tubing (Jim Dipalma)
  Theoretical Max Extract of Grains? ("Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556")
  Panic attack (Matt_K)
  RE: Dead Hunter Airstat Fix (James Syniura)
  Lemonade. (Russell Mast)
  Beer in Ontario (Alan_Marshall)
  Molson and Craft Beer (Alan_Marshall)
  pitching temps... my 2 cents (Rob Emenecker)
  Chillin' Tales. (Russell Mast)
  Aerating & Liquid Yeast (Brent Irvine)
  Elactrasol & Total Residual Chlorine (Jim Overstreet)
  High Pitching Temps and Immersion Wort Cooling (SoarMoose)
  Trappist ale fermentation temperature (Dave Riedel)
  Molson (Eamonn McKernan)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 17:35:10 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: trip report part 1 of 2

Well, I'm back from three weeks in Germany and Belgium and, naturally,
I'm three weeks behind in my work, so I'll try to make this short.
A special thanks to all of you that sent me your very helpful suggestions
for lodging, translations of brewing terms and suggestions of places to
visit.

Where: Bamburg, Muenchen, Bacharach, Koeln, Duesseldorf, Beersel, Brussels,
Brugge and Antwerpen.

I missed a lot of the "easy" brewery tours (the ones that were actually
IN the cities we were staying and had regular brewery tours) like Straffe
Hendrick and Gouden Boom (Brugge) or the big breweries in Muenchen.  I did,
however get to tour some of the smaller, more interesting breweries that
are not on everyone's agenda, like Paulaner Brauhaus (a brewpub owned by
Paulaner), Forschungs Braustuberl, Unions (another brewpub near Muenchen),
Zum Uerige, De Dolle Brouwers, Oud Beersel, Rodenbach and the cellars at
3 Fonteinen in Beersel.  Cantillon was certainly a must and was an "easy"
brewery to tour: you could probably wake Jean-Pierre at 3am and he would
let you tour the brewery.

Beer-related Highlights:

* the rauchbier at Braurei Special in Bamberg (Incidentally, while everyone,
  especially the citizens of Bamberg, criticize Kaiserdom for being a "bad"
  rauchbier, I feel that it is not that far off the mark, and probably most
  of the local criticism is because it is a major brewer and not a small
  independent.  Yes it is probably twice as smoky as Special, it is not that
  much smokier than Schlenkerla.  Back off 25% to 40% on the smokiness from
  Kaiserdom on your homebrewed attempts and you should be in the ballpark.)

* while the Muenchner Helles were all quite similar (almost every brewery uses
  34/70 yeast) throughout Bavaria, the Dunkels had wide variety of
  interpretations... standouts were Benedicktiner Dunkel (Bamberg), Augustiner
  Edelstoff Dunkel (Muenchen) and Koenig Ludwig Dunkel.

* the best beer I tasted in Bavaria was by far the St. Jakobus Bock, a
  pale bock beer brewed by Forschungs Braurei (Koenig Ludwig Dunkel was
  a close second).

* Kulmbacher Reichelbraeu Eisbock is outstanding... the only other eisbock
  I had tasted was one brewed by Dennis Davison -- the one that won the
  bock category at the Nationals this year.  I know one or two judges gave
  Dennis a score of 50 on his beer, but (sorry Dennis) I'd have to give the
  Kulmbacher one point higher.

* Zum Uerige -- yes, it is as bitter and as malty as they say it is.  No,
  no homebrewed version I've ever tasted has even come close.  It is brewed
  with about 98% pils malt just a few percent roasted and caramel malt.  All
  Spalt hops.  This was another outstanding beer.  The other Duesseldorfer
  Alts (Zum Schuessel, Schumacher, Im Fuechshen) are also very good to
  outstanding and most are almost as bitter as the Zum Uerige.  There were
  some fair-to-poor Alts there also, so not every alt is spectacular.  Also,
  several excellent Alts were *fruity* despite many descriptions that say
  they are supposed to be dry and not fruity.  They were all at least slightly
  fruity and were all semi-sweet -- the hops balanced the sweetness and
  perhaps that's why some think they are a dry-tasting beer.  They are *not*
  dry.

* 3 Fonteinen Geuze (Flemish spelling) is outstanding.  Too bad they are so
  small that you have to get within 10 miles of the cellars to find it.
  The acidity was a little harsher than Cantillon.  A five-year-old bottle
  was much smoother and tasted about as smooth as a three-year-old Cantillon.

* Cantillon Gueuze (French spelling) is the best.  With some aging it becomes
  a nectar.  The best beer I tasted in my life was a 17-year old Cantillon
  poured by Jean-Pierre at the brewery.  It was more complex than any other
  10 beers combined.  When I asked J-P if he thought we could make lambik
  here with pure cultures, he said: "You can make lambik anywhere!"  He felt
  that traditional methods are key and that you must learn to work within
  your environment.  Jean-Pierre says he doesn't make lambiks, lambiks make
  themselves -- he just helps: "The lambik is the boss... I work for the
  lambik."

<continued in part 2>

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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 22:35:13 -0400
From: GeepMaley at aol.com
Subject: AOL Name flames

Thanks to all for the input to my private e-mail (You know who you are) and
those that posted to HDB on this subject. As you may have guessed from the
"naivety" of my original post, I am not a seasoned Internet veteran. As such,
when I read that people were complaining about AOL "signatures" I assumed it
was the area shown in parenthesis after the actual email address, i.e.
GeepMaley at aol.com (GeepMaley) vs. Beerman at anything.com (Joe Schmo), that
people were referring to.

Sorry for the confusion, 'nuff said

Still looking to Weizenbock help (thank padre!)

Geep Maley
Amateur Brewer and Father (yes I am an amateur there too!)
Plano, TX

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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson at beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Subject: Hunter Kaput

My Hunter AirStat also has died. Right now it is just an
expensive thermometer and the fridge is controlling its
own temperature the best it can. Same symptoms: the AC
no longer turns on. I had modified mine to work at lower
temperature, a la HBD directions, so I didn't try to send
it back to Hunter or where I bought it. My modification
did not affect what broke, I'm pretty sure. If anyone has
a fix, I'd sure like to hear about it too. Mine only lasted
about 6 months.
Regards, Kyle


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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:34:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier at abc.se>
Subject: drawing wort/ leaky 5-liter keg

There was a posting last year about drawing wort from a carboy with a
60 cc syringe and a catheter, for measuring specific gravity during
fermentation (can't give credit where credit is due to a hard disk
crash). My medical connections are not good enough to get ahold of a
syringe that big, so I have taken a tip from the siphoning thread
from a couple months ago and adapted it, using no medical supplies.

Materials: a small plastic container with a tightly sealable lid, 70-
100 cm aquarium aeration hose (ca 5 mm), and silicone sealant. Cut
off 10 cm of the aquarium hose. Drill two holes in the lid and insert
the 10 cm hose in one hole and the rest in the other hole. Seal with
silicone. (Sorry, no ASCII art. Write me privately if this is
unclear.)

To use: Place lid, tightly sealed, on the plastic container. Sanitize
the long aquarium hose. Remove the airlock from the carboy. Stick the
long hose down into the wort. Position the container lower than the
level of wort in the carboy and suck on the short hose until a siphon
is achieved. Allow the container to fill up until you have enough
wort for an s.g. test. Remove hose from wort and replace airlock.
********

I have a 5-liter mini-keg that has not developed a tight seal around
the rubber plug. When I tip it, it leaks out beer. What can one do to
prevent this?

The beer was kegged 10 days ago, with about 30 ml (sorry Dave) corn
sugar. It has been kept at 20-25 C, so it has been warm enough for
the yeast to ferment and bring up the pressure, if there had been a
seal. I used both a rubber plug and the hard plastic inner plug that
I have used about 4 times before, but these things shouldn't get worn
out, should they?

Carl Etnier
A transplanted Yank in Trosa, Sweden


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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:56 +0100
From: davide.arzarello at MacPost.CSELT.STET.IT
Subject: Homebrewing in ITALY


This is my first post to HBD and I have some basic questions about my FIRST
beer brewing.
I wrote from ITALY where wine is the national drink (I produce by myself
 wine and oil) and so is very difficult to find homebrewing informations.
I bought a little book (It seems the only one in italian ) about beer
with a simple recipe to produce beer at home but it wasn't very satisfactory
I started my research on Internet and i am amazed at the ammount of 
informations about beer and people found of homebrewing.
I downloaded some beginner's guides to first beer and from these 
instructions i decided that for the first time is more simple buy a KIT
expecially as regard INGREDIENTS.
Here are my questions: Is there any source of brewing supplies in ITALY or
is there any good MAILORDER store in EUROPE that sells KITS and INGREDIENTS?
Are there other homebrewer in ITALY ???
Any other suggestions about first beer brewing and recipes are wellcomed.

Thank you in advance.  Davide Arzarello
						
***************************************************
* Davide Arzarello C.S.E.L.T.                     *
* Via Reiss Romoli 274 Torino ITALY , 011/2287370 *
* davide.arzarello at CSELT.STET.IT                  *
***************************************************


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Date:          Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:31:12 +0000
From: "ath at merkur.sds.no" <ath at merkur.sds.no>
Subject:       SG corrections (the easy way)

This is not accurate but should be sufficient for homebrewing as the
hydrometer readings is a bigger source of errors than this formula.
(my opinion)
Here is what I use :

VOL = volum of wort.
SG = starting gravity.
DG = desired gravity.

Water to add = [VOL  *  (SG - 1000)] / (DG - 1000) - VOL

Works for Gallons,  liters etc. 

And if you don't want to do any calculations at all,- use SUDS to
set up a batch with SG and volume and start adding water until
the desired gravity is reached.

Atti

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 21:34:47 EST
From: Aidan "Kicked in his conspiracies" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Yet *more* dilution stuff
Full-Name: Aidan "Kicked in his conspiracies" Heerdegen

Hey ho,

I can tell just what you all want to read is *more* about 
dilution stuff ...  ;) 


flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) wrote:

<some nice stuff about SG to deg Plato conversions>

> dw = -w1(p2 - p1)/p2, or what is the same:
>
> ------------->   dw = (sg1*v1)(p2 - p1)/p2    (1)  <---------------
		       ^
Dropped one of them pesky minus signs I reckon (you included it 
in your example).  

or you meant to say:

		   dw = (sg1*v1)(p1 - p2)/p2

>Example:  20L of 1.060 wort is to be reduced to 1.045 through addition
>          of plain water.  How much is needed?
>
> Convert 1.060 and 1.045 to Platos of 14.7 and 11.2, respectively. Then 
>
> dw = -(1.060*20)(11.2 - 14.7)/11.2  = 6.625 Kg, OR, ~6.6 Litres


"Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> like a bearded sage 
staggering out of the desert with a staggeringly brilliant, yet 
simple, idea said: 

>If you have collected 7 gallons of 1.042 wort, and you are going 
>to boil it down to 5 gallons, what will be your final OG?  
>
>1. You have 7 gallons of 42 points per gallon wort. Total points = 7x42 = 294
>2. The OG of 294 pts in 5 gallons = 294/5 = 58.8 or 1.059

If we try out Kirk's example with John's methodology:

60 * 20 = 1200 points.

1200 / 45 = 26.67

i.e. final volume = 26.67, therefore amount needed to be added
is 26.67 - 20 = 6.67

Which agrees with Kirk within the standard LBGETM* error margin

Funnily enough it is the way I have always done it too ..  also 
has the advantage of being unit independent (as far as volume 
goes) as it is a simple ratio.  

Oh yeah ..  I thought the religion thread was bad (but it died a 
quiet and dignified death), but there is *no* way I wanna be 
reading about gun control on the HBD ..  ok?  

Cheers

Aidan

* Looks Bloody Good Enough To Me

- --
e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au,
WWW: http://rschp2.anu.edu.au:8080/aidan

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:58:51 -0400
From: BF3B8RL at TPLANCH.BELL-ATL.COM
Subject: More immersion wort chillers


I 've noticed several HBDers mention that for an immersion wort chiller, you can
shorten cooling times by having the coolest portion of the coil hit the hottest
(top o' the kettle) portion of the wort.

Doesn't this go against the idea of a "counterflow" chiller -- where the coolest
portion of the chiller should be located with the coolest portion of the wort?
In my faint memories of my last Thermo course, I remember that the counterflow
arrangement maximized the efficiency of the heat exchanger.  And since
(generally) immersion chillers operate with constant inlet temps and flows, the
key to chilling times is exchange efficiency.  Two basic ways to influcence
efficiency are stirring the wort and counterflow of the cooling medium (hence
this thread...)

What am I missing?

Chas Peterson

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Date: 17 Aug 95  8:28:42 EDT
From: Bill Andreas/BOSTON/PART/CSC
Subject: The Most Powerful Beer in the Universe

We have been driven on a quest. Create the most potent brew possible without 
fortification and still have a pleasant taste and feel. This is our current 
work. Any suggestions for improvement are extremely welcome.

10 gallon batch
50 minute boil

Extract

20 lbs. American Pale Malt Extract

10 lbs. Rice Syrup

   5 lbs. Wheat Malt Extract

Grains

   3 lbs. Aromatic Malt

   1 lbs, Crystal 60 Malt

0.5 lbs. Chocolate Malt

0.5 lbs. Roasted Barley

Hops

3.5oz Chinook pellets (50 min)

2.0 oz Fuggle pellets (30 min)

3.0 oz Kent Goldings (5 min)

2.0 oz Kent Goldings (dry-hopped primary)

Water

2 tsp Water Crystals
1.5 tsp Irish Moss (15 min)

Yeast

Nottingham Yeast ~ 15 grams
Champange Yeast after 3 -4 days
Repitch Champange after 2 weeks


SG 1.126 OOOOOOOOOHHHHH My GODDDDDDD   !!!!
       
Potential alcohol appears to be 15%.

Anybody going higher without fortification ?

drop a line


The CSC Brew Crew

"Our creations stand on their own, without a glass"

   



      

    


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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:44:51 -0400
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: More on B-Brite again/Fuzzies in RIMS

   For those interested the label on the _old_  B-Brite states Contains
sodium carbonate and sodium silicate.  I don't know what the _new_
formulation contains.
   A data point.  My usual method of cleaning my RIMS is to "mash" 4-5
gallons of  B-Brite solution up to 170F, then "mash" plain water to 170F,
then rinse with cold water once or twice, this procedure using the _old_
B-Brite did NOT get the fuzzies off of the heating element.  However, both
the _new_ B-Brite and the cheap dishwasher detergent do!!!

Don



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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:59:24 -0500
From: Danny Mastre <dmastre at bcbsnd.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in Atlanta

Iam going to Atlanta next week for 6 days, anyone know of any brewpubs
in the area?  I will be staying on the north side in Buckhead.
                    tia  danny

dmastre at bcbsnd.com


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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 09:41:55 PDT
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: wort starters

Okay folks. Here is one of those obvious questions that us AR (anal 
retentive) types just insist on having specific answers to...

I am getting ready to brew a blueberry wheat (a modified version of CP's 
Turtles Wheat from "Companion") using Wyeast American Ale yeast. I popped 
the yeast pack on Friday, put it into a starter (8 oz. in a 16 oz. bottle) 
on Sunday. Since that time I have not had the free time to brew and have 
been stepping up the starter with wort charges (adding an additional 8 oz 
every 12-18 hours and moving to larger containers as necessary).

Here comes the AR question.... 

I know you should not aerate wort once fermentation has started. However, it 
seemed to me (my brain what a place to be) that without aerate the starter 
at each wort addition there would be insufficient oxygen to keep the starter 
going. So, at each wort charge I would shake up the starter bottle. Well... 
did I screw up my yeast starter? Should I start over? Should I relax (which 
at this point will require at least 2 or 3 homebrews) and not worry?

TIA

============================================================================
Rob Emenecker (remenecker at cadmus.com)
Cadmus Journal Services, Inc., Linthicum, Maryland 21090
410-691-6454 (voice) / 410-684-2793 (fax)
Date: 08/17/95  Time: 09:41:56
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are only two things in life that are ever certain... taxes and BEER!"
============================================================================



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Date:          Thu, 17 Aug 1995 09:57:34 +0500 ET
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject:       Chillers & stirring

This thread on stirring while using immersion chillers has me thinking.  
While everyone(?) agrees that stirring increases the rate of chilling, 
some have stated that they prefer not stirring because they want the cold 
break to settle out.  I would like to suggest the possibility that 
stirring actually helps the cold break to form, and thus more will settle 
out of suspension.

As most of us are aware, cold break is the process of individual proteins
clumping together into larger groups and thus settling faster due to the
increase in mass.  This also is what causes yeast to settle and is called
flocculation and sedimentation.  Wastewater treatment plants also depend
on flocculation to settle out *little bugaboos* that have been eating the
nutrients in the wastewater.  In fact, wastewater engineers often employ
methods of increasing the rate of flocculation. According to _Wastewater 
Engineering_ (Metcalf & Eddy, 3rd ed.), flocculation is "dependent on the 
opportunity for contact", which varies with concentration, among other 
things.  Thus engineers will often introduce turbulence into a wastewater 
basin with paddles or aeration to cause the little bugaboos to bump into 
each other more frequently, and thus flocculate better.

It seems to me that brewers could use the same method to aid in the cold 
break.  Stirring while chilling would benefit both the rate of cooling and 
the degree of flocculation.  A short rest after cooling will then allow 
the protein clumps to settle out, which should proceed much faster due to 
better flocculation.  Remember, chill haze is simply the continuation of 
the cold break, so the more you get out in the cold break, the less chance 
you have of a chill haze problem.

Comments and criticisms welcome!

+------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Keith Royster, E.I.T.        |  Erotic is using a      |
| Environmental Engineer       |   feather as a sex aid. |
| NC-DEHNR / Air Quality       |                         |
|    (704) 663-1699            |  Kinky is using the     |
| N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us |   whole duck!           |
+------------------------------+-------------------------+


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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 09:55:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Griggers <brew at devine.columbiasc.NCR.COM>
Subject: Re: Dead Hunter Airstat


>A few members of our club have had the same problem as recently posted, the 
>AC outlet is no longer gated and is in the off state.  Below is a portion 
>of a post discussing this problem.
>
>> The part number for the Airstat zener is 1N5359B.  It's a 24V, 5W zener.
>> It's the only zener on the board, marked as Z1 I believe.  Mine read dead 
>>  short with an ohmmeter.
>
>We had problems finding the part if anyone has a source please post it, I 
>still have a dead hunter I would like to fix.

I meant to post something on this many moons ago, but I am still behind
on reading the HBD and this subject caught my eye when I downloaded the
latest Digest from stanford.

I had a Hunter Airstat fail a couple of years ago and found the same
problem, a shorted zener.  I replaced the 24 V zener with two 12 V zeners
in series.  They are available at Radio Shack in a package of two, cat.
no. 276-563 for $0.99.  They worked for me.

  __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
 |\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/|
 |Jim Griggers    brew at devine.columbiasc.ncr.com    Columbia, SC|
 |______________________________________________________________|

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:02:07 -0400
From: dwhitman at rohmhaas.com (Dave Whitman)
Subject: re: Why no head?

In HBD1805, "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> asks why his latest
batch has poor head retention.

Mike, I speculate that it's the irish moss you used.  I've been using IM
for about a year now, and I'm starting to see a correlation between use
level and quality of head.  Now, these haven't been carefully controlled
experiments that block out other confounding variables, but there *is* a
reasonable mechanistic explanation for why IM might reduce head quality.

IM works by helping to precipitate proteins in your wort. This helps
eliminate chill haze since complexes of proteins and tannins cause that
effect.  Unfortunately, proteins are a major contributor to head retention,
and it seems to me that it'd be easy to remove too much protein and end up
killing your head.

My suggestion: next time skip the IM.  If you're worried about chill haze,
add a tablespoon of polyclar to your secondary.  This will remove tannins
from your beer, eliminating chill haze without removing proteins.



- ---
Dave Whitman
Rohm and Haas Specialty Materials
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com



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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:12:43 -0300 (ADT)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Re Molson Signature Series


	Eamon mentioned the talk by Walter Hogg (not Moss) at the CABA 
conference.  Although true he felt he was brewing for a mass market and 
that he was capable of reproducing many craft beers, he also stated that 
he was a stickler for quality.  By this he meant demonstrable stability and 
consistency.  He felt that high hopping rates might be used as a mask for 
a multitude of sins rather than as a flavour component in its own right.  
His Signature Series (much like the Miller 100% Barley series in the 
multi-faceted bottles) is decent but not outstanding. The reason seems to 
be that we wants his beers to be "naked" and therefore show themselves to 
have no flaws.  Personally I like beers with guts, character, and even 
variability (hey, the top half and bottom half of a bottle of laChouffe 
can taste different!), but it helps explain a few things.

	ed
   ----------------
ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca
the Pick & Fossil Picobrewery
Because there's more to life than just coffee


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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 09:10:00 PDT
From: Ben Adair <BenA at wayne.com>
Subject: ...and even more on siphoning/oxidation.


1) Rob Emenecker states that he had an oxidation problem from a siphoning 
technique.  I use a plastic bucket primary and a glass secondary and try to 
avoid oxidation when I x-fer to the secondary by first attaching a small 
hose to the stopper where the airlock is on the primary and put the other 
end of the hose in the clean secondary, thus attempting to introduce as much 
CO2 to displace the existing air.  I do this for about 15 min.  I do not do 
this when i x-fer to a bottling bucket because there is generally not enough 
activity.

2) To  David Wright, I start my siphons with then siphon tube full of clean 
water.  The amount of water is negligible and I don't introduce any creepies 
from my beer breath.



 -ben

===================================================================
"Did you really make this?!  I really don't care for beer, but this is 
good!"



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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:22:04 -0400
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
Subject: ...no subject...

	On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, I wrote:

> Steve Armbrust and Jeff Frane advise that the 1993 AHA convention was 
> held in Portland and the commemorative brew was a hazelnut brown ale
> (brewed by Chris Studach (?)).  I checked and the recipe for this beer 
> is the Summer 1994 issue of __Zymurgy__ (Volume 17, No. 2).

WRONG.
	I don't have the issue in front of me, but according to the Zymurgy 
index, the article is in the *Winter 1993* issue, Volume 16, No. 5:  "The 
Oregon Nut Brown Ale Trail---Brewing the '93 Commemorative Beer" by Dena 
Nishek.  Sorry!

Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:32:19 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: Braided tubing


Hi All,

  In a HBD#1810, Lee Mengoni writes:

>I have purchased Food Grade, mercury and silcone free  PVC tubing from US
>Plastics, it has a temp rating of +25 to 150F.  Its listed applications are
>Food and beverage tubing, air and water lines, potable water, deionized
>water, air breathing lines.

  I obtained some of this tubing from Lee, have brewed with it 3-4 times,
and am very happy with it. I've repeatedly pumped liquids that were
considerably hotter than 150F through it with no problems, either structurally
or with leeching anything from the tubing that caused off flavors. This
stuff has worked well for me.

************************************************************************

  Also in HBD#1810, Christopher P. Weirup writes:

>>In HBD #1809, Jim Dipalma writes:

>>I liked the old BBrite better, too. The new formulation is suspiciously
>>similar to
>>dishwasher detergent. I switched to iodophor.

>I may be mistaken, but iodophor is a sanitizer, while B-Brite is a
>detergent.  This is a big difference.  B-Brite does not sanitize.

  Either you are mistaken, or I'm the luckiest homebrewer on the planet. I've
brewed over 250 uninfected batches over the past 8+ years using Bbrite. With
that kind of luck, I'm wasting my time homebrewing. I should be out buying
lottery tickets, or looking for lost wallets. :-)
  When I wrote "the formulation is suspiciously similar to dishwasher
detergent", what I meant was that the new stuff produces a lot of suds, and
has a distinct lemon-like, citrusy aroma. The Sunlight detergent I use in
my dishwasher has exactly those same properties. The old Bbrite formulation
had neither of them. Draw your own conclusions.

         Cheers,
           Jim               dipalma at sky.com

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 09:35:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556" <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com>
Subject: Theoretical Max Extract of Grains?

HBDers:

A question for those in the know: what do you think of the following
numbers as they pertain to maximum extraction for the given grains?
Another question: do you recommend one good source for such info, 
a book or a spec sheet for each type of grain?

Source for these is Mosher's Brewer's Handbook, and I'm not sure
of the actual origin...USDA method?  These are close to other
numbers I've seen, but I want to better determine my extract
efficiency and thus I need to be sure of my reference info.  TIA!

Grains			Ideal Extract /lb/gal		/lb/5gal

6-row, US			1.0315			1.0063
Amber, British			1.0320			1.0064
Black Patent, British		1.0300			1.0060
Brown, British			1.0320			1.0064
CarraMunich, Belgian		?			?
CarraVienna, Belgian		?			?
Chocolate, British		1.0300			1.0060
Light Crystal, English		1.0325			1.0065
Mild, British			1.0360			1.0072
Munich, Belgian			1.0340			1.0068
Munich, German			1.0340			1.0068
Pale, British			1.0375			1.0075
Pilsner, German			1.0350			1.0070
Wheat (malted), Belgian		1.0390			1.0078

Dave in Indy

From: BRADLEY DAVID A               (MCVAX0::RC65036)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")
cc:   BRADLEY DAVID A               (MCVAX0::RC65036)

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:43:48 est
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Panic attack

Pant, pant, pant.  Wait for heart beat to settle back down.  

While trying to get my trip organized and work finished before I leave 
on vacation I almost forgot to ask about where to have a good beer in 
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.  So,  please, please if you know of 
anything please let me know.  We will be touring the two provinces 
during the next two weeks.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming while I go and get a 
coffee to calm my nerves.

Matt
in Montreal



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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 15:33:31 UT
From: James Syniura <SYNIURA at msn.com>
Subject: RE: Dead Hunter Airstat Fix


>A few members of our club have had the same problem as recently posted, 
the 
>AC outlet is no longer gated and is in the off state.  Below is a 
portion 
>of a post discussing this problem.

>> The part number for the 
Airstat zener is 1N5359B.  It's a 24V, 5W zener.
>>It's the only zener on 
the board, marked as Z1 I believe.  Mine read dead short
>>  with an 
ohmmeter.

>We had problems finding the part if anyone has a source please 
post it, I 
>still have a dead hunter I would like to fix.

I have two(2) 
dead Hunter Airstats. Both bought new, and died within 8 months. 
If anyone 
can come up with a fix which will last. Please post. 
Hunter must have 
dumped all their units on the market, because of the high failure rate. 


But you still see them advertised in Zymurgy. buyer beware....

James 
Syniura

syniura at msn.com



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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:35:04 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Lemonade.


> From: sprmario at netcom.com (Mario Robaina)
> Subject: Alcoholic Lemonade

>... educated guesses as to how I might make some. Any takers?

Well, it might be stretching it to say I'm educated, but here goes.

First off, don't use powdered mix at all.  Use real lemons or a frozen juice 
concentrate.  Second, I wouldn't recommend fermenting the stuff with lemons at
all.  I would guess they probably didn't do that at the brewpub either.  
It's very common in Germany, Mexico, and probably elsewhere to just mix lemonade
and beer together.  Now, this will result in something lower in alcohol than
beer, and probably lower than what your SO had.  You could try making a special
high-G beer with champagne yeast and lots of adjuncts, or you could just 
buy <gasp> a bottle of cheap champagne, from a store, and mix it with some 
lemonade.  

Of course, if you want to bottle the stuff, you'll need to worry about adding a
yeasty beverage to a sweet one.  Good luck.

"Please, please, Baby Lemonade."  (Syd Barrett)

 -R

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:42:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: Beer in Ontario

Bob Paolino asked about breweries, tours, brewpubs, etc in Ontario.  
Regulars of alt.beer and rec.food.drink.beer will know there is a FAQ. 
Here is the relevant information:

                  The Beer Lover's Guide to Ontario

(c) Alan Marshall, ak200032 at sol.yorku.ca         revised May 9, 1995

URLs:

ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/rfdb/beer-ontario.faq
http://www.interlog.com/eye/Food-drink/Drinks/marshall.txt

<rest of FAQ snipped>

Comments and suggestions are most welcome

Alan Marshall

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:49:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: Molson and Craft Beer

Eamonn wrote about the Molson bigwig's comments.  First, I believe 
it was Walter Hogg, head brewer.

Second, I question the mega's abilities to clone micros.  As evidence, 
it took Labatt 3 months and dozens of batches to get the President's 
Choice beer to a state acceptable to Loblaws/Weston.  

Third, the big brewers spending on packaging (bottles, cans, cartons 
and labels) is over three times what they spend on malt.  I'd like to 
know what is spend on packaging advertising and promotion versus 
ingredients!  To me it sounds like Walter Hogg is just reciting the 
party line.

Cheers, Alan

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 12:04:59 PDT
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: pitching temps... my 2 cents

After reading the plethora of message on pitching temperatures I had to 
throw in my 2 cents of a recent experience...

I brewed a Weisen (btw... please excuse any butchered spellings in this 
message... I am at the office and do not have my brew books) using the 
Wyeast Weihenstaphen (can't recall the number). I pitched a starter at 80*f 
and fermented at 75*f (ambient summer temp. of my basement). The 
fermentation, racking, bottling and everything in between went without 
incident. What I now have is an extremely sour beer. It is not 
contaminated... I have had that happen in the past... nor is it oxygenated. 
I attributed this EXTREME sourness to the higher fermentation and pitching 
temperatures. Other yeast strains may be more forgiving of slightly elevated 
fermentation temps, but this one sure wasn't. For my future summer brews I 
am keeping the carboy in an insulated box filled with 60 degree water.


============================================================================
Rob Emenecker (remenecker at cadmus.com)
Cadmus Journal Services, Inc., Linthicum, Maryland 21090
410-691-6454 (voice) / 410-684-2793 (fax)
Date: 08/17/95  Time: 12:05:00
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are only two things in life that are ever certain... taxes and BEER!"
============================================================================



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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:09:11 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Chillin' Tales.

In HBD #666, Kevin Nadai discusses using liquid nitrogen and LOX and 
bagels to chill his beer.

I usually use N2O to chill my beer.  Sure, it takes a long time and the
cold break isn't for shit, but it's great fun.

 -R

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 12:34:36 EDT
From: Brent Irvine <brenirvi at village.ca>
Subject: Aerating & Liquid Yeast

With all the discussion on aerating, yeasts and kegging, I am in the process
of modifying my so-far-successful brewing techniques to suit. However, I have
questions.

First of all, for my current batch which is in the secondary (bottling within
a week), I aerated with an aquarium pump. I simply placed a sanitized tube
into the primary before pitching yeast and let it pump away while I ate
supper. Fermentation went well and hard. Of course I do not yet know the real
(read 'taste') result of aerating like this, but am curious about what to
expect. I would imagine that I will get a more complete fermentation, thus a
less sweet yet lighter taste. I would also expect alcohol content to be
higher. Am I correct on these counts? Any others? Please post or private
reply. Thanks.

Secondly, liquid yeast. I brew using DME and LME with a few added grains if it
strikes me to do so on some days. I usually also play around with different
combinations and styles of hops; so far, very good. But, I still use the yeast
package that comes under the lid, or buy some other package of dried yeast.
What I would like to do next is to use liquid yeast. Apparently, this will
have one of the greatest and best effects on the brew. My homebrew outlet
knows little and stocks no liquid yeast - even in a city 400 km south (North
Bay) I could find little knowledge and no stock of the stuff. Please help.
Where can I get it? Is there one type I should try over another? I prefer
brown ales to all other brews. For those lurkers or posters in T.O., I will be
moving to Etobicoke at the end of August for the winter, and would like to
know of any shops in that area or at least the west end of Toronto that could
be recommended to help me.

Finally, with all of the discussion on kegging, I think that I may soon do
half of my packaging by keg. I have access to the equipment and would like to
try it out. Thanks to all for the info that has come across the lines so far.

Brent Irvine
Lake Commando B&B
Cochrane, Ontario
*Home of the Polar Bear Express*

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:54:38 -0600
From: wa5dxp at mail.sstar.com (Jim Overstreet)
Subject: Elactrasol & Total Residual Chlorine

I also have been using Elactrasol for my cleaning/sanitizing at the
Buzzard's Roost Pico-Brewery.  After the recent HBD discussions, I decided
to run a chlorine test on some Electrasol, which I buy in 15 lb. tubs at
Sam's Wholesale Clubs for about $8.00.

I first tested the makeup tap water for total chlorine (using a LaMotte
Chlorine Test Kit).  Total Chlorine was 2.0 ppm.  Next, dissolved 1 level
TEAspoon of Electrasol in 1 gallon of said tap water.  Tested again.
Total Residual Chlorine was 4.8 ppm.  So, it appears that 1 tsp/gallon adds
about 3 ppm Total Chlorine, not Free Available Chlorine (as I was getting
low on the test reagent, did not perform this one, which requires chilling
the sample, etc.).

I have been using approx. 1 Tbsp/gallon of Electrasol for several years,
and have been well pleased with it's performance.  Be sure to rinse w/hot
water though, or 3 times or more with cold tap water.

Perhaps someone could test the ALL product mentioned in recent HBD.  The
Brewmaster at the new Acadian Brewery uses Cascade at his 2-bbl pilot
brewery.


wa5dxp at mail.sstar.com (jim overstreet) - - - - - Fidonet 1:396/1.5


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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:15:36 -0400
From: SoarMoose at aol.com
Subject: High Pitching Temps and Immersion Wort Cooling

Well...I haven't seen a good reason why I shouldn't pitch at the same
temperatures that I always do, even though someone chastised us all for
pitching at higher temps. There was a good note explaining in extremely
high-tech terms what "Might" happen, but I really don't know how to tell if I
have too much ethylacetlyetehstace in my beer.


My point to all of us who pitch at higher temps with good results is: don't
worry about it. Until you see a detrimental effect on your brewing, even the
stearnest warning doesn't mean a thing.

The president of a local homebrew club once told me that I got trub because I
used flower hops. His other friends have told me all kinds of wild things
about tempuratures of this and stirring this or not stirring that... most of
these things are little more than superstitious rituals that they do because
they were stupid enough to believe some OTHER homebrewer.

To resolve the cooling issues I have 50' of 3/8 copper and I move it around.
I remove sediment and other crap by hop-backing through a strainer using the
hops floating around in the wort. I generally pitch in the upper 70s or right
at 80 degrees and I get NO TRUB WHATSOEVER. Oh, yeah, I use flower hops as
much as possible. Pellets just make a mess in the bottom of my fermenter and
I can't filter the wort like I can through the flowers.

No matter what the "experienced" homebrewers say, I make consistently good
beer that is usually as clear (or clearer) than theirs and tastes great. I
think the yeast I use, being very similar to the yeast in Sierra Nevada,
helps a lot. I think it likes the local ambient temperatures - but I really
don't know or care as long as my beer tastes like I want it to taste.

 -Chris (C&S Nanobrewery)

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:59:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca>
Subject: Trappist ale fermentation temperature

Trappist ale fermentation temperature....

Ok, I give up.  Perhaps this is a just a 'presonal preference' question...
I don't know.  In any case, as you read this, my current brew, a big-gravity 
(1.082) Trappist ale clone, is bubbling away in my apartment.  The question
is:  What is the recommended fermentation temperature for such a brew (I'm
using Chimay rouge yeast)?

Dave Miller, in Brewing the World's Great Beers, suggests a fermentation temp
of 70-75F.  Several other brewers recommend the same in Cats Meow.  A quick
survey of some of the HBDers who replied to my post regarding getting Chimay 
yeast revived (thanks guys) revealed that all but one brewer simply used 
'room temperature', aka 68-70F.  So you're saying: "What's the confusion?  Use
around 70F!"  Well, along comes an article by Phil Seitz on Belgian styles in
which he states that fermentation temperatures of 60-62F are necessary to 
avoid creating "headache-causing" fusels.  Jim Busch also mentions that high
pitching temperatures cause more fusels and esters.  At the same time, many
sources say that a higher temperature will help create the Chimay 
characteristics that I'm after.  Lovely.  My batch is currently fermenting at 
72-74F.  I have another area in which I could let the wort ferment which is 
62-64F.  Ideally, I'd like to have a spot at around 68F, but I don't.  So,
what do you think?  Am I going to sit down and enjoy a wonderfully flavourful 
glass of trappist-style ale then get pummeled by a headache? 

Who's correct here?


Dave Riedel
Victoria BC

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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:02:39 -0400
From: eamonn at chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan)
Subject: Molson

Alan is correct, it was Walter Hogg (Moss, Hogg, I was close!) who spoke,
and of couse he was towing the party line. I just gained some respect for
the big boys' position. It may take the awhile to fine tune a beer,
but that in no way shows that they can't brew good beer.
And yes, advertising is a huge chunk of their expenditures, though in
private conversation, Walter declined to give me a number. Though the packaging
costs for the craft brewers are probably comparable, if not higher. And
craft brewers do advertise as well. But Craft brewers at the CABA conference
insisted that their prices were so much higher mainly because of economies
of scale, as I suggested yesterday. Laboour is one of the really significant
costs.
	A good point was made by Norm Pyle though,
>While this is all true, what is ignored is that profit margins are on the
>order of 10% in big businesses.  If you reduce the cost of materials by a
>few percent, that goes directly into the profit.  If you save 40% on
>materials (difference between good ingredients and swill ingredients),
>this is 40% of say, 10%, or 4%.  A 4% total savings on top of your 10%
>profit is nearly a 40% gain on profits for the product.  If you could
>increase your company's profit by 40%, they'd proclaim you God.
>
>I realize this is vastly oversimplified, but the reason behind swill isn't
>*all* market conditions.  A lot of it still has to do with behind-the-scenes
>business decisions.  Pass me a Zima, would you?  ;^)
>
>Ah swill, so fun to make fun of!

Well, even if the big boys drag down the price of good beer, I'll still
make my own!
	Eamonn McKernan
	eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca

"More than one in five Canadian children are poor... Statistics Canada reports
 that the pre-1993 social spending cuts alone --not even those promised in the
 Martin budget-- will result in a 40 percent poverty rate by the year 2000...
 Unprepared to pay for a civilized society, we are creating one characterized
 by social barbarism." 		J.F. Conway, Toronto Star, July 25, 1995

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1811, 08/18/95