HOMEBREW Digest #1821 Sat 02 September 1995
Digest #1820
Digest #1822
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Upside-down trub/mystery solved ("Michael R. Swan")
Advice on Bottle Labels (Victor Hugo)
Comment on Pat Babcock' chilling experience ("Keith Royster")
carbouy cracks ("David Wright")
Brazilian Beer Recipe (Brian Anthony Reichert)
Wild Hops? (Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA)
Airborne yeast/Mini-still ("Michael R. Swan")
Separating wort from hops (Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA)
Re: Celis correction (Douglas R. Jones)
We just did our first batch and have some questions ("Alex R.N. Wetmore")
Alt yeast (Jim Busch)
Acid Washing (John DeCarlo )
Gott Conversion ("Richard Scotty")
No head (Rolland Everitt)
Wild hops (Rolland Everitt)
floating trub (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
protein rests (Samuel Pottle)
Cheap carboys (Alex Mounayar)
defrost clock (DONBREW)
Galvainzed Steel --DON'T DO IT (Steven Lichtenberg)
Mini keg fun, Chimay dregs (harry)
Uncl: Homebrew shelf life ("Calvin Perilloux")
Galvanized stuff (Harralson, Kirk)
Refrigerators and Defrost Cycles (MJones)
re: scum skimming (John DeCarlo )
Organic Hop Plugs? (Russell Mast)
A Lurker's view ("Taber, Bruce")
A whole bunch of stupid questions (Mario Robaina)
Grape Beer? ("Mark G. Schmitt")
Attenuation Limit Data Request (Kirk R Fleming)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 8:39:47 -0400
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
Subject: Upside-down trub/mystery solved
A month or so ago, I posted a question about mysterious upside-down
trub.
After cooling a two and a half gallon all-grain batch, I poured the
wort into a five gallon carboy to allow it to settle. (Specific gravity:
1.045) I also pitched the yeast (Wyeast American Ale, in a 25 oz. starter)
at the same time. Although I tried to strain the wort through the whole
hops, a *lot* of hot and cold break material made it into the carboy. In the
past, I waited a few hours for the wort to seperate and then racked the clear
wort off the trub and pitched the yeast at that time.
In order to aerate the wort, I vigorously shook up the carboy
numerous times during the first three hours. Each time, the trub settled to
the bottom. However, the last time I shook the carboy, the trub rose to the
*top* of the carboy above the layer of clear wort. The beer turned out fine,
although very cloudy.
Now, in HBD #1819, Jim Busch appears to have solved my mystery
(albeit in response to a different question):
>Actually, pumping air through wort helps the trub to rise to the surface
>in the same mechanical fashion that a floatation tank works. The trub
>latches on to the air bubbles and rises to the top of the tank. Usually,
>this is done inline as the cold wort is sent into the floatation tank,
>then the bubbles rise to the top of the tank, pulling trub with them.
>After a rest period of between 4 and 6 hours, the wort is pumped out from
>under the trub and off to the fermenter. This is very typical in German
>lager breweries.
Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan at fdic.gov
Standard disclaimers apply
"You know where you stand in a hell hole."
Spinal Tap
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 09:12 EDT
From: vic at iglou.com (Victor Hugo)
Subject: Advice on Bottle Labels
>
>First, Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about the "partial
mash kits". I think I'll wait until I come up with a decent kettle and
burner and go for an all grain batch (IMO it seems cheaper and more rewarding:))
>
>Now another question.
>
>What is the best way to lable bottles? This may seem shallow but I really
hate to soak...soak...scrub....etc for hours trying to get the commercial
labels off of my growing collection. Are there any "easy-off" labels out
there? Should I just go with some of the larger mailing type labels.
>
>And another related question.
>
>Has anyone run across a good shareware/freeware label program specifically
for beer labels? I'm using windows 3.11 and have a bj-200ex printer.
Macro's for WP 6.1 would also be helpful.
>
>Any help would be appreciated! Private E-Mail is fine...but I'm addicted
to HBD so I'll see any responses. Thanks in Advance.
>
>Vic Hugo
>
Vic Hugo
vic at iglou.com
"save the trails"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:27:38 +0500 ET
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject: Comment on Pat Babcock' chilling experience
And yet another kudo to Pat Babcock for his informative chiller
experiment. In a subsequent post, Pat stated that he felt the CF chiller
was superior to the immersion simply becuase it is more efficient (and
time is valuable). Yet a comment in his original post caught my eye:
> The CF chiller was cleaned by circulating clean water through it.
> IM chiller required additional manual cleaning to clear break
> material from on and between the coils.
This troubled me, as I have been using a CF chiller and have been
"cleaning" it this same way, as I beleive most brewers do. If the break
material clings to the outside of an immersion chiller with such tenacity
that it requires scrubbing to remove, then why should we beleive that a
good blast of water through a CF chiller will adequately clean it out?
This layer of gook that may be building up inside is a great hiding place
(and grazing field) for all sorts of nasties. It will also protect them
to some degree from the effects of any sanitizing solutions you may
siphon through before you use your CF chiller the next time.
This has caused me to rethink which is better and I beleive that I will
be switching to an immersion chiller soon. Other benefits seem to be
that a better break is acheived (argueable) and that this break is formed
*in the kettle* where my whole leaf hop bed can filter it out of the wort.
CF chillers are faster, there is no denying that. But I have a hard time
beleiving that homebrewers would be so concerned about adding another
15-20 minutes to their brew day that they would add such unnecessary
risks.
As usual, YMMV. I understand that this thread (CF vs immersion) has been
hashed out many-a-time before and I know of plenty of brewers who have
been using a CF chiller successfully for years. More power to ya!
+------------------------------+------------------+
| Keith Royster, E.I.T. | Beer that is not |
| Environmental Engineer | drunk has missed |
| NC-DEHNR / Air Quality | its vocation. |
| (704) 663-1699 | |
| N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | - Meyer Breslau |
+------------------------------+------------------+
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:34:16 EST5EDT
From: "David Wright" <LSMAIL at osp.emory.edu>
Subject: carbouy cracks
Scott Hadley wrote about cracks in the neck of his carbouy. I have
also seen small fissures in the neck of my carbouy's and have
attributed them to using the handles that attach to the necks to
carry the carbouy's. I asked the people at the homebrew shop that I
go to here in Atlanta (Brew Your Own Beverages - BYOB [unsolicited
plug]) and they said they had never noticed anything in there
carbouy's but had never heard of a carbouy breaking off ath the neck.
I have noticed these cracks on two of my older carbouy's and have
decided to take the approach of to keep using them until the cracks get
noticibly worse.
David Wright
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Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:13:57 +0600
From: breicher at vt.edu (Brian Anthony Reichert)
Subject: Brazilian Beer Recipe
I am looking for a Brazilian beer recipe. If possible it should try to
emulate the Brazilian beer Xingu. Any Brazilian beer style will do though.
Posting a can be done here or personal e-mail will be fine.
Thanks in Andvance,
Brian
breicher at vt.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:04:25 EST
From: Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA at ccmail.eo.ray.com
Subject: Wild Hops?
In HBD #1819 Jim Webb writes about wild hops:
> there is a HUGE area covered with wild hops (maybe up to 1/4 acre in
> area). It's scarey to see how they cover over trees, bushes etc.
Hmmmm.... sounds like a much less aggressive strain of the "ground cover"
that we have here in the south called Kudzu.
> I thought it would be interesting to harvest some of the wild ones (the
> price is right for sure). The ones I've crushed have a very pleasant
> aroma, and definitely very different from my Cascades.
I've never looked very closely at the flowers on Kudzu, but I will now.
For you southerners who have witnessed the amazing power of this plant in
our climate, imagine a hybrid Cascade/kudzu. We would all be hopheads out
of necessity.
> Should I be concerned by my own hops, which are planted about 200 yards
> from the extemity of this wild patch?
If it's kudzu, you should be concerned for your hops, house, automobiles,
children, and any domestic animals within range.
Tom Williams Raytheon Engineers & Constructors
twilliams at ccgate.ueci.com Norcross, Georgia, USA
P.S. Kudzu is a Japanese import.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:14:48 -0400
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
Subject: Airborne yeast/Mini-still
The Dallas papers recently reported a story involving the
fermentation of blood sugar by airborne yeast. I am posting this to find out
if there is any truth to the theory or whether this is just another case of a
slick lawyer confusing a jury.
According to court records, a driver accused of intoxication
manslaughter had a blood-alcohol content 2 1/2 times the legal limit and a
history of drunken driving. However, his lawyer persuaded jurors to acquit
his client of the charges in the death of a police officer by producing a
forensics expert who told jurors that the vial that contained the driver's
blood actually had become a "mini-still" in which airborne yeast produced the
alcohol in the sample.
Authorities said that the driver had a blood-alcohol level of at
least .25 percent; the legal limit is .10 percent. The prosecution's
forensics expert witness testified that the driver would have had to have
consumed 28 to 30 10-ounce glasses of beer during his six hours at the bar to
have that much alcohol in his blood at the time of the collision.
But the defendant's expert testified that officials who drew the
driver's blood contaminated it by exposing it to air, allowing yeast to enter
the sample and ferment the blood sugar into alcohol during the sixteen hours
before the alcohol level was tested.
Given the problems many of us seem to have with wort aeration and
long lag times, is this theory scientifically possible?
Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan at fdic.gov
("The views expressed above do not in
way represent those of my employer.")
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:24:31 EST
From: Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA at ccmail.eo.ray.com
Subject: Separating wort from hops
Steve Zabarnick writes about the frustration of siphoning cooled wort from
the kettle. I have also seen posts from others describing ways to filter
wort when siphoning. I thought these were all counterflow chiller people.
Like Steve, I also use an immersion chiller and an enameled steel kettle.
Lately I have been using hop plugs in a hop bag, however I have ordered
some whole hops and I plan to quit using the bags.
Unlike Steve, I have not experienced the frustration of siphoning from the
kettle for the simple reason that I don't siphon; I pour the wort into a
glass carboy through a large funnel. I use a sanitized saucepan to ladel
from the kettle until the kettle is light enough to pick it up and pour
directly. The funnel has a fine screen in the neck, and I put a kitchen
colander in the bowl of the funnel to catch the bigger pieces. There is a
photo of C. P. doing this in TNCJOHB.
The screen in the funnel gets clogged with finer material, but overall this
process is so easy that I don't understand why one would siphon. Since the
wort has been cooled, hot-side aeration should not be a concern, and I
thought aeration of the cooled wort was desireable anyway.
Am I missing something?
Tom Williams Raytheon Engineers & Constructors
twilliams at ccgate.ueci.com Norcross, Georgia, USA
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:03:03 -0500
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Re: Celis correction
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 12:43:35 -0700
>From: alan at mail.utexas.edu (Alan P. Van Dyke)
>Subject: Celis correction
>
>Few people seem to know that Pierre Celis is also known in the yeast
>circles to be a master yeast rancher. He keeps his secrets well,
>unfortunately for us homebrewers.
This may be true for what they us in their White etc. But I know (based on
information provided by Southwest Brew News and Peter Camps) that they use
Wyeast 1098 in their Pale Bock. I have made 3 batches based on their recipe.
Doug
>
- --------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones
both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation
Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307
| djones at iex.com
- --------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:27:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" <alexw+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: We just did our first batch and have some questions
A couple of friends and I are just starting out brewing and started
our first batch last night. We have a couple of questions about
the process that we used and how it might affect our beer.
Question #1: Currently the best fermentation temperature that we've
been able to reach (constantly) is about 75-80 degrees (its hard
to say for sure, we are using one of those LCD thermometers that
sticks to the side of the fermentation bucket. The 80 degree mark
is sort of red-orange and the 75 degree mark is sort of blue-green,
so we are guessing that the temp is around 77 to 78). Is this
acceptable or should we try and lower it? The apartment where we
are brewing stays very hot (top floor of a building with no air
conditioning). To keep the fermenter cool we have it in the kitchen
sink sitting in cold water (we add ice to it a couple times a day)
with a towel wrapped around the fermenter to bring water around
the whole tank. We have a fan blowing on it. We asked about
keeping the fermentater cool a few days ago and most people seemed
to reccomend this method. Should we be worried about it being this
warm (ideal temp seems to be about 65-70 for a Ale, which is what
we are making (specifically a Porter)).
Question #2: It took a long time (~5 hrs) to cool the wort down to
78 or so last night. Is this bad? Most directions seem to say
"Cool as quickly as possible". We used the above method to cool.
We also stirred the wort a few times with a santized spoon. How
could this affect our beer?
Question #3: We activated the yeast according to the directions on
the packet (it is M&F Ale Yeast). This meant putting the yeast in
boiled water that had cooled to about 43 degrees c. The instructions
that came with the beer kit said just to throw the yeast in without
activating it. We have had very early fermentation (its going at
it already, about 14 hours after pitching the yeast), so it appears
to have been okay. What are the pluses and minuses of activating
the yeast this way?
thanks,
alex
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:08:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Alt yeast
<Altbier snipped from Miller
snip
<Yeast - Brewers Choice - Belgian Ale
Ah yes, thats *so* authentic! (I can see the Germans rolling over in
their graves.....)
Jim Busch
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 15:15:43 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org>
Subject: Acid Washing
I was wearing acid-washed jeans the other day and thought "Hey, wouldn't this
be good for my yeast, too?"
Seriously, though. I noticed a question on this subject in HBD 1819.
Specifically asking about vinegar. I want to add to that list:
Carbonic acid (what you get when you dissolve CO2 in water). AKA seltzer.
Any scientists care to comment on washing your yeast in seltzer?
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Return to table of contents
Date: 31 Aug 1995 13:59:49 -0700
From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com>
Subject: Gott Conversion
I use two 10 gallon Gott coolers - one for a mash tun and one for a hot
liquor tank. I made my conversions on the cheap. I removed the spigots and
ran some vinyl tubing through a #1 drilled stopper and ran the stopper into
the hole vacated by the spigot from the inside so the hydraulic pressure
helps hold in firmly in place. This has never leaked (serious temptation of
the brew gods here). The tubing runs to a Phil's Phalse bottom in the mash
tun and terminates just inside the wall of the cooler on the hot liquor tank.
I then placed a butterfly valve in-line in the outflow tubing to allow fine
adjustments to the sparge water / wort flows. I believe I got these valves
through Brewer's Resource (no affiliation) but its been a long time and can't
recall with certainty. Total cost per Gott was $2.00 (not including Phalse
Bottom).
It's not elegant, but its cheap, effective and worthy of consideration.
Rich Scotty - Brewmaster - Crapshoot Brewery
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Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:53:24 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: No head
Michael Genito is wondering why his beer does not retain a head.
Could the reason be oils of some sort?
Rolland Everitt
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:55:37 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: Wild hops
Jim Webb wrote about a nearby patch of wild hops that seem to be
under attack by some insect. A friend of mine who grows hops says
he has a problem with japanese beetles at this time of year - they
like hops as much as we do apparently.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 09:43:11 -0700 (MST)
From: mcb at abrams.abrams.com (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
Subject: floating trub
In HBD #1819 Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
> Actually, pumping air through wort helps the trub to rise to the surface
> in the same mechanical fashion that a floatation tank works. The trub
> latches on to the air bubbles and rises to the top of the tank. Usually,
> this is done inline as the cold wort is sent into the floatation tank,
> then the bubbles rise to the top of the tank, pulling trub with them.
> After a rest period of between 4 and 6 hours, the wort is pumped out from
> under the trub and off to the fermenter. This is very typical in German
> lager breweries.
I don't use a floatation tank; however, in my last IPA (split between 7.5
and 5 gal fermenters), I had all the trub floating at the top of the wort
after a couple of hours in my airstat controled freezer (68F). I use a CFC
with an aeration wand (3/8" copper with 4 small holes drilled just past the
vinyl tubing). The water temp was not very low here last June so I don't
believe the pitching temp was at 68F; but, it must have been close since I
got my expected *creamy* colored wort at the output side of the CFC (It's
always *neat* to watch the crystal clear wort enter the CFC and the cloudy
outflow. I don't get the 'large flake' type of break I've read here in the
hbd. My particles resemble a coloidal(sp?) suspension.). Since I had already
pitched and couldn't tell what state my yeast had entered I let it ferment
with this floating cake rather than rack and possibly adding O2 at the wrong
time. It was broken up by the fermentation and settled out. I racked after 4
days, dryhopped after 1month, kegged after 2months. It tastes great.
Here's the part I don't understand: Only one of the two carboys had floating
trub. In the other (5gal), the trub settled onto the bottom. I racked after
4 days, dryhopped at racking, and kegged after 10. (Yes, I was out of home
brew!:-)
Any ideas why I would have 'floating' vs 'settling' trub in the same batch?
Mark
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. Bellefeuille mcb at abrams.com
Abrams Airborne Mfg Tucson, AZ
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 03:29:42 -0500
From: pottle at cs.wisc.edu (Samuel Pottle)
Subject: protein rests
I have some questions about protein rests. To wit (no, not the beer style):
- What are the relative merits of a rest at 50 vs. 55 C? Under what
conditions would each be appropriate?
- Why is a protein rest considered undesirable (as opposed to merely
unnecessary) when using highly (protein-)modified malt, such as pale ale
malt?
- What does this portend for beers (e.g. dry stout) that use both pale ale
malt and raw barley?
Sam Pottle
"And from thence they went to Beer: that is the well whereof the Lord spake
unto Moses, Gather the people together, and I will give them water."
-- Numbers 21:16
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:24:00 EASTERN
From: Alex Mounayar <Alex.Mounayar at shrmed.com>
Subject: Cheap carboys
Back In #1813 MEMBRINO TIMOTHY wrote
>Does anyone know of a source for cheap 5-gal.
>carboys? I'm in the Philly
>area and the best
>price I've found is $20.00. I'd have no problem with mail ordering but
>also wonder if anyone in
>this area has found a great source unknown to myself.
I have bought 5 gal carboys for $10 at the READING CHINA and GLASS
outlet (usual disclaimer) store in Lancaster, Pa. I understand there is
another of their outlets, probably the main one, in Reading, PA which may
be closer to you.
Now that the subject has been brought up...
I have been looking for 6.5 gal carboys at a reasonable price but have not
been able to find any for less than $25.
Anyone know where to get these at a more reasonable rate?
Thanx,
Alex Mounayar
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:27:55 -0400
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: defrost clock
> What is a defrost clock, how does it work, how can I recognize it beyond a
>doubt and what would happen if I didn't disable it?
The defrost clock is exactly what the name implies, that is, it turns the
refridge off for a time each 24 hours so that it defrosts and the water runs
down to the pan in the bottom. What?, you never emptied the pan ;-) nobody
has RDWHHB. But the problem still stands that for a time each day the
refridge won't run.
Somewhere on the back or underside of the refridge there should be a
circuit diagram, it had to be there when it left the factory anyway, that can
help. The clock will be a small (1"X 1" maybe) "black box" with a knob
sticking out of it for setting the time, in practice you are supposed to set
it to go off in the middle of the night, when nobody will be opening the
door. Usually they put it it in an easy tyo see place like right at the
bottom rear. I will rephrase that, pull the refridge out from the wall so
you can get down on the floor and look into the "working" area at the bottom.
Okay, now look for the little box with a knob and two wires on push
terminals coming out of it. Try turning the knob to make sure it is a knob
not a protrusion. That is it. BTW, UNPLUG THE REFRIDGERATOR before sticking
your hands in there. Just take the two wires off the terminals and splice
them together in your choice of ways, tape together, splice tab, cut and
twist, etc.
Oh, yeah the clock may actually have more than two wires going into it, so
you would have to trace the circuit.
Don
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:29:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at inet.ttgva.com>
Subject: Galvainzed Steel --DON'T DO IT
In todays (Friday) issue DONBREW recommended using galvanized fittings
instead of brass for attaching drain valved to the kettle. I have posted
this before and will do so now, DON"T DO IT. The zinc that is used to
coat the steel when placed in an acid environment(beer) will leach out.
In surprisingly small quantities, this is lethal. There are several
da\eaths each year from community picnics etc. where people will mix
lemonade in a galvanized trash can for large quanities of people.
There are posts like this all too often re lead aluminum etc. Many of
them are reactionary (you may think this is) but heavy metal poisoning
usually takes a long time, in the case of zinc, this aint so and dead ids
dead.....
Now back to brewing, Could anyone out there give me amy help with the
following problem. My last two attempts at making yeast starters have
resulted in infections within the starter. I think I am using proper
technique but I have been getting too many problems for it to be random.
I got some slants from a friend (Itrust the slants to be good) and tried
to grow them up. I use sanitized mason jars (8 oz, 1 pint and 1 quart)
and step up the yeast. By the time I get to the quart size, there is a
definite infection (ring around the top of the jar, phenolic smell and
taste etc). Could this be a function of summer heat (incredible heat
wave and drought int the mid atlantic states) nad just too many wild
things in the air for my system or could it be something else.
I know this is kind of sketchy info but if anyone could offer any
suggestions, I owuld greatly appreciate it. TIA
**** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- ****
O|~~| ------------ Steven Lichtenberg --------------- |~~|0
`--' ---------- steve at inet.ttgva.com ------------- `--'
-------- Programmer/Analyst - TTG ---------
---------- Alexandria, VA ------------
-----------------------------------
ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:15:58 -0400
From: hbush at phoenix.Princeton.EDU (harry)
Subject: Mini keg fun, Chimay dregs
First off, someone posted a while ago about using a Carbonater (tm)
and a Co2 bottle in lieu of the 16 gram cartridge in your Fass-Fritch tap.
I don't remember who, but they mentioned force-carbonating with this
arrangement. This idea intrigues me for the main reason that I have a
couple of flat minikegs of beer (no I wont go into the reason).
1) Could the original poster (or anyone with experience in this)
contact me with details?
2) I'm a little leery of running a Mini-keg up to 30 psi. Is there
a minimum pressure for force carbonating (even if it takes a few days
more)? I guess I'm looking for the C02 vapor pressure on top of a
medium-carbonated vessel of brew prior to opening and dispensing.
Secondly, I've never understood the Hoopla about Belgian Ales (just
my taste, I guess). Duvel proved to me that there IS such a thing as too
much head (perish the thought!). The couple of Lambics I've tried reminded
me of bad Champale (remember Champale malt liquor? I remember trying some
of my father's long before I was legal and not being impressed). Well, not
giving up, I bought a bottle of Chimay Gold label, and liked it! I had a
couple of uninoculated slants in the fridge and infected them with the
bottle dregs. So here's my question(s).
3) Am I wasting my time here? Does anyone know if the brothers use
a different strain for bottle conditioning only and that's what I'm
culturing?
4) If its worthwhile trying to use this yeast, got any good
Chimay-clone recipes to go with it?
On any of the above stuff, private e-mail is fine, I'll post any
interesting results that come of it.
harry
(new e-mail address, same old jerk!)
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 10:27:06 EDT
From: "Calvin Perilloux" <dehtpkn9 at ibmmail.com>
Subject: Uncl: Homebrew shelf life
Steve Schultz writes recently:
>I am noticing a definite pattern: My beers often taste very good after <
>2-3 weeks in the bottle, but after not much more than 4-5 weeks, they a<
>in decline. <
I would suspect two things: Oxidation, and (perhaps) sanitation.
I doubt that over-aeration of the hot wort is the cause, due to the
yeast using up that oxygen during the ferment and the fact that you
aren't having these flavor problems when the beer is young. I also
don't think you have a problem with sanitation, since you mentioned
the hops fading, and that sounds like an oxygen problem, not added
flavors from bacteria, but I'll mention sanitation anyway just for
others who might be interested. I personally suspect too much O2
being brought in during transfers and bottling, so let's start with
that.
I had noticed the very same thing in many of my early homebrews, which
I found to have a fine balance of hops and malt (OK, not ALL of them,
but a few did), but after a month or more there would be a steady
decline in the quality. I did not notice the same situation with
my later kegged versions, even those from the same batch as bottles!
I had 3 gallon kegs, so some was bottled, most kegged. The bottles
were often filled from a splashing spigot, but the kegs were CO2 purged
(as was the secondary fermenter, etc.) and then filled using tubing that
ran to the bottom of the keg to prevent splashing. That led me to
attribute the decline of my bottled beers to oxidation and so I started
using methods to prevent splashing during bottling time. Improvement!
Also, in my early brewing days back when I was told that there was no
reason not to use the 2 year old dry yeast pack attached to the malt
extract can with a rubber band, I also had short shelf lives on a few
of those batches. Wild yeast and/or bacteria are my guess for the
root of that problem that I had. This doesn't sound like your problem.
How to tell the difference? The former case resulted in beer with the
familiar oxidized, "old", cardboard flavor that you can experience by
buying a dusty bottle of imported commercial beer that's been on the
store shelf since 1990. On the other hand, wild beasties result in
slowly increasing carbonation levels with each successive month of warm
storage, sometimes a wine or phenol aroma, and a significant thinning of
the beer. This is not to be confused with proper aging, in which a beer
that is high in residual sugars at bottling time has those sugars
eventually eaten by the (descendants of the) yeast you pitched,
instead of random beasties.
I've seen numerous cases where people actually like those "off" (to me)
flavors, though! On more than one occasion I have been served a sample
of beer that had been "aged to perfection" for a year or even more by the
proud brewer, who loved that "complex" aroma and flavor profile. This
is appropriate for strong ale, some Belgian beers, but not for most
beer styles, which should be served either relatively fresh (most ale)
or cold lagered and clean (lager, of course).
Steve, if you're not doing it already, here are some suggestions: First,
make sure you have lots of viable yeast to pitch and make sure all your
stuff is well sanitized (you're probably doing this already). Second,
try avoid any splashing when moved the fermented beer, whether to the
secondary or into the bottles. If you have CO2 handy, purge the vessels
before transferring beer, and look into a counter pressure filler (if all
the talk about the trouble they give hasn't discouraged you). At the
least, fill those bottles with a tube that reaches down to the bottom
and can provide a smooth, non-foaming flow, and note that often the least
turbulent flow is with the faucet wide open, not barely cracked and
and squirting beer down the filling tube! You can't help but lose some
hop aroma over time, and yeast autolysis will get the beer eventually,
but let's hope these measures slow the process.
Calvin Perilloux "Bayerisches Bier,
dehtpkn9 at ibmmail.com Staerker als Heimweh"
Erding, Germany
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 95 10:31:19 EST
From: kwh at roadnet.ups.com (Harralson, Kirk)
Subject: Galvanized stuff
DONBREW at aol.com writes:
<snip>
> Also, if you can't find brass nuts, go to the electrical dept. at the
> hardware store and get galvanized conduit nuts. I have been using galvanized
> parts inside my tun and boiler for a couple of years now and am still alive,
> the only trouble is some of the really cheap ones will rust after awhile.
Just to show my ignorance: If galvanized parts are OK, why not use a
galvanized tub for a boiler? These can be had for VERY cheap, and will
hold at least 15 gallons. I always just assumed that they would not be
suitable to brew in. What do the materials experts say? John, are you out
there???
Kirk Harralson
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 8:00:27 CDT
From: MJones at swri.edu
Subject: Refrigerators and Defrost Cycles
I'm a little confused, it has been my experience that you want to keep the
defrost timer in the circuit for the following reason: to melt the frost on
the evaporator coils. If this doesn't happen ice builds up on the coils and
greatly reduces the cooling capablity of the system. My homebrewing buddy and
I aqquired a free fridge this past year, because the owner frankly was a klutz
and broke the glass encased heating element that fits in the evaporator and
was tired of messing with it. So we bypassed the defrost timer and set up an
external thermostat, everything worked great at ale temps (60-65 F). However,
when trying to lager the fridge would refused to go below 58F after a few days
(so now we have batch of bock lager that was fermented and "lagered" at 60F,
bummer). Upon opening up the fridge we discovered that the evaporator coils
were encased in ice, blocking all airflow over them. Our fix was to replace
the heating element that the original owner took out and put the defrost timer
back in the circuit. Now the fridge can stay at lagering temps as long as we
want it to.
IMHO you should keep the defrost timer in the circuit, it turns the evaporator
coil heater on to melt the frost buildup. As far as the defrost timer dying
in defrost mode, yes it could happen. But over 7/8 of the time the clock is
in normal running mode so it is a small envelope of opportunity. If its an
old fridge and you are concerned then buy a replacement clock as a
preventitive measure.
To Jeff M. Michalski who wondered if his fridge was ruined. Has your fridge
given you any problems in the last year (even at colder temps) using your
external thermostat? If not, then I wouldn't worry about and keep brewing!
Mark Jones
Southwest Research Institute
San Antonio, Texas
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 11:36:43 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: re: scum skimming
Curt Speaker writes:
>I think I have to disagree with Jim Dipalma regarding scum skimming:
>I always skim the scum off my mead, but never beer. If these high-MW
>proteins have been denatured (cooked) and form scum, they most likely will
>end up in your hot/cold break and will not contribute significantly to
>protein haze in your beer. I have made some suprisingly clear beers without
>skimming the scum; irish moss does help, however.
My perspective is quite simple. Since skimming the scum at the beginning of
the boil means you have completely eliminated any chance of boilover, you have
to have *very good* reasons to *not* do this. I have much better things to do
with my time than keeping a close watch on my brewpot for potential boilovers.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:41:12 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Organic Hop Plugs?
> From: Jim Larsen <jal at gonix.gonix.com>
> Subject: organically grown ingredients
> Ive been requested to brew a beer using only organically produced
> ingredients. While the term has not been precisely defined...
The term is precisely defined. If whoever made the request doesn't know
what it means, they have no business making such requests. It's a very
simple concept: you don't use factory-types of chemicals in the process
anywhere.
Organically grown plants (which would include barley and hops) are plants
which have not had any artificial chemicals used as pesticides, coloring
agents, or for processing and packaging. To make organic beer, use organic
ingredients and don't use stuff like bleach, chemical yeast nutrients,
sulfites, and whatnot.
I've seen organically-grown Malts for sale in some catalogs, they cost a bit
more than the regular stuff. Not sure about hops. I think the catalog was
from St. Pats of Texas and I recall they had some note in their catalog
about being proud members of some organic co-op of, uh, something. They
could probably fill you in on any details you'd need.
> From: MClarke950 at aol.com
> Subject: Hop Plug Utilization?
> Now the question, has anyone gotten lower alpha acid utilization from
> this type of hop? How about aroma?
Nope, I've always been pretty impressed with the bitterness, flavor, and
aroma of this form of hop.
If anything, they are stronger than I expect, and I've lost points for
overhopping beers in competetion. Though a couple of those times, I think
they were tasting other flaws and mistaking them for overhoppyness, so take
what I say with grain of salt and tsp. of gypsum. (I am, after all, just
an all-grain brewer. Actually, I'm probably going to make an extract-based
braggot this weekend...)
-R
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 95 14:06:00 EDT
From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA>
Subject: A Lurker's view
I may not be a great homebrewer, but I am a great bitcher and
complainer so..... here are my 2 cents.
I'm sure I represent the vast majority of HBD subscribers when
I say * I'm a lurker.* I've been reading the HBD faithfully for about a
year
and one thing that ticks me off is the number of great questions that
are answered by private e-mail instead of by posting. This has been
mentioned before but it's worth repeating.
I read lots of great questions that I never see answers for.
INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW ! Please don't ask for responses
by private e-mail unless you plan on summarizing the results for the rest
of
us. Also, those who say " I'll forward the results if there is enough
interest",
how the hell are they supposed to know who is interested? There are many
( hundreds ?....thousands ? ) of faithful readers who access the HBD though
freenet systems across North America. I read it faithfully for months on
Ottawa's Freenet before subscribing personally. Trust me when I say " if
you're interested, then there are others out there in cyberspace who are
interested to". Just look at that crazy religion thread. Who would have
dreamed that any homebrewer, ( a group known for their intelligence and
good taste ), would respond to that stuff ?
In yesterday's HBD, W. Ruccker asked about calculating extract
efficiency. I WANT TO KNOW TOO ! Russell Mast asks if there is any truth
to C.P.'s claim that grain husks have lots of lactic bugs. I WANT TO KNOW
TOO ! Dion Hollenbeck stated that he communicated with a poster with some
suggestions on how to solve his foaming beer problem. WELL, I WANT TO
KNOW TOO !
We all know how to page-down when needed. Let's try to use this
great forum to help EVERYONE. Let's keep the private e-mail to a minimum.
One last personal opinion, then I'll shut up. Please feel free to post
any of your favorite or interesting recipes. I'm sure many people save
them.
I know I do. Who knows when I'll have the urge to whip up a batch of
Pumpernickel Pumpkin Coriander Kreik.
We'll talk again soon.
Bruce
~~ replies by private e-mail only please~~
Bruce Taber
TABER at IRC.LAN.NRC.CA
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 14:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: sprmario at netcom.com (Mario Robaina)
Subject: A whole bunch of stupid questions
If I had paid more attention or had kept the old hbd's in a more orderly
fashion, I wouldn't be asking these questions. Alas, I did not, so I am
asking (and I apologize):
(1) Anyone happen to have the Radio Shack temp control part #, and know
if it is still available? I remember a while back someone saying that it
is no longer available except through ordering by part #, or something.
(2) After a couple dozen batches of ale, finally think I'll try a lager.
Can anyone point me to some good net sites to help out? Specifically
looking for information on pitching temps (yeast and beer shouold be the
same temp, I assume, but what temp? Cool down to 55? Cool down to
whatever ferment temp you're aiming for?)
(3) Last but not least, I'm trying to investigate the best way to adpat
my newly purchased draft system to take ball and pin-lock kegs. Already
have heard a little about the male/female flare set-up (which I assume is
similar to the one recently published in Zymurgy, but I'm not sure).
Anyone have anything that works particularly well for them?
That about raps it up. Like I said, I apologize -- I know this has been
convered in some fashion before, but I neglected to save the
back-issues. I have learned my lesson.
Quick tip for anyone going to draft system:
look around a lot before purchasing "re-built" corny (soda) kegs. Most
homebrew places sell them for $25 and up used, and they can be had and
refurbished pretty easily for less than $10 if you're willing to look
around. Thanks to all who responded to my earlier request; I've been led
to some much more reasonable sources of kegs..
-John
(still pretending to be sprmario at netcom.com)
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Date: 01 Sep 95 20:02:29 EDT
From: "Mark G. Schmitt" <102160.1456 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Grape Beer?
I have been blessed (cursed?) with a grape arbor that is bearing grapes in a big
way. My problem is what to do with them. I have been all-grain brewing for
about 5 years but have no clue on how to make wine. Has anyone ever made a
grape wheat or a grape mead or anything along those lines?
Thanks,
Mark Schmitt
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Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:49:22 -0600
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Attenuation Limit Data Request
Thanks to everyone who provided input on my questions re: judge's 'more
malt' comments on my ordinary bitters (OG in the 34-37 range). I finally
got a chance to start looking over the recipes and procedures and making my
proposed changes. I wanted to see if SUDS' predicted FG values responded
to malt changes (maintain OG but reduce pale malt while increasing crystal,
carapils, wheat, etc). It does not. Apparently SUDS does a simple calc
based on OG and a fixed percentage to get FG predictions.
So...what I think I need is a table of apparent attenuation limit values
for various grains such as those just mentioned. I've looked thru all my
stuff and haven't seen any such data, but feel it must have been gathered
only about a million times by now. Can anyone help before I go off and
start up a bunch of unecessary forced ferments? [Based on the attenuation
values published for Wyeast ale yeasts, the particular yeast used to get
the data should not matter much, and according to deClerk it does not.]
Private mail responses welcomed, or course.
KRF Colorado Springs
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1821, 09/02/95