FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  repitching from pressure barrel (Neville Ramsey)
  Pubs, A-B etc (Steven Lichtenberg)
  drying hops, and more... (SIMJONES)
  Re: Working with Agar Slants ("Anton Verhulst")
  Re: RIMS question (hollen)
  RE: PRIMING / NOVEMBER CLASSIC (uswlsrap)
  Gott Cooler Conversion - Bung Design Follow-Up (LT Alan D Czeszynski)
  thread21 for DOS problem (gravels)
  Re: Used Homebrew Equipment 4 Sale Newsgroup ("Pat Babcock")
  Beer Marketing ("Penn, Thomas")
  Sink Fermentations / CF cleaning ("Richard Scotty")
  Carbonator (Matt_K)
  re: O2 absorbing caps (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  Keeping yeast strains pure (Algis R Korzonas)
  RE:RE-PITCHING (Brian Pickerill)
  "Maybe?" = "Must!" (Russell Mast)
  Underpitching ("Herb B. Tuten")
  Beers of Warsaw and Brussels (lconrad)
  Diluted batches (Mario Robaina)
  oak chips (Ray Ownby)
  Cooling Beer Line (Millnerp)
  Request for London Bitter Recipes (Jeff Hewit)
  Heavenly water OR water from hell? (FxBonz)
  MALTMILLS AND MOTORS (Jack Schmidling)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:04:57 +0100
From: N.Ramsey at roe.ac.uk (Neville Ramsey)
Subject: repitching from pressure barrel

Hi HBD

I've been following the starter/repitching discussion on this digest
(great stuff) and I've been convinced to give it a go but want to do
so with minimal effort so repitching sounds like the best option for
me.

I tend to bottle and barrel the beer from my secondary (25L) about
50/50; drinking the barrel first, while letting the bottles mature and
hopefully the bottles keep me going until my next batch is ready with
a few left over to mature for longer. (I often let all the beer mature
in the barrel before bottling half at the stage I normally vent the
barrel which leaves more yeast deposit in the barrel and less in the
bottles).
 
The thing is I only start to make a new batch once my pressure barrel
runs out so I was wondering if I could repitch the yeast that collects
at the bottom of barrel without making a starter. (The beer is
conditioned natural via secondary fermentation).

The quality of the yeast should be the same (is it?) as that which
collects in the bottom of my bottles except there will be at least
20-30 times as much. Enough to get the 1:10 - 1:6 pitch ratio without
make starters and stepping them up etc. (maybe). Or does the yeast need
to be re-activated via a starter anyway?

Oh great HBD what advice do you have for a humble lurker

Neville Ramsey	
nwr at roe.ac.uk 
Edinburgh, Scotland


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:23:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at inet.ttgva.com>
Subject: Pubs, A-B etc

Jim Busch mase some good arguments in response to Kirk's questions 
regarding what would make any particular brewpub better/different than 
any other.  Jim, you nad I have had this discussion before and I know you 
understand the issues.  While I agree with you that a wider variety of 
beers should be presented and yes there is a dearth of lager styles 
represented in the brewpub industry, it is not without reason.  It is a 
simple matter of economics.  If I can take my investment (in inventory 
and raw materials) and in one week have a product that will be 
generating revenue, that would be preferable to having to keep all this 
money sitting on the shelf for a month or longer.  Additionally, if I am 
limited in space (as almost all brewpubs are) I must be in position to 
turn all of this inbventory over pretty quickly.  Granted this is a bean 
counter approach to the brewing industry but in the real world these 
factors must be considered.  If someone could open a brewpub and be so 
fully capitalized that he could wait sufficient lengths of time to 
generate revenue, it would be a fantastic boon to the whole beer scene.  
But then again, I have seen many instances of people going to a brewpub 
and ordering Miller Lite.  Unfortunately beer geeks do not hold enough 
sway to keep these businesses viable (hopefully this will change) and 
they have to pander to the lowest common denominator to remain in 
business.  

Not to change the subject or anything but I thought it was interesting to 
note that in the A-B pamphlet quoted in Wednesdays HBD, all of the 
descriptions used terms like "in the style of" or "influenced by" or 
"reminiscent of".  These seem like marketing terms being used to give 
historical credence to something that these big boys created out of their 
hats.  It sounds to me like they are creating new recipes (read this any 
way you want) and lending some self serving history to the products.  Yes 
A-B could brew anything they want and do a good job of it but will they 
alienate their core market (I think not!!!).  These beers will probably 
be mediocre at best and only slightly different than standard American 
Light Lager (I would be pleasantly surprised if this were not the case)

Hope this isn't too far afield from the real issues.  Now back to your 
regularly scheduled brew session.


       **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- ****
      O|~~| ------------ Steven Lichtenberg --------------- |~~|0
       `--'  ---------- steve at inet.ttgva.com -------------  `--'
              -------- Programmer/Analyst - TTG ---------
                 ---------- Alexandria, VA ------------
                  -----------------------------------
                  ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL



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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:50:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: SIMJONES at upei.ca
Subject: drying hops, and more...

A few cents worth on drying hops. I've been a backyard grower of hops of
indeterminate lineage for three years. The first year I froze the fresh hops
but they rotted when they were inadvertently removed from the freezer (label
your bags). The second year I tried a combination of freeze-drying (didn't
work) and laying on newspaper on the floor in the front room (hot and sunny).
The hops seemed dry but when I brewed with them the beer was distinctly
vegetable like and this masked any bittering. I suspected that the hops were
too fresh. Maybe chlorophyll compounds of Charlie P. This year I'm sticking
to the floor method but prolonging the dry-out time. So far the hops smell
great when squeezed between my fingers. Will be brewing soon...
Does anyone out there know of a Canadian supplier of hop rhizomes. I would
like to have a go at some varietal hopping, as well as the no-name-but-OK
stuff I'm doing now. 

Cheers

Simon Jones
Covehead Road
Prince Edward Island 
Canada

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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 15:25:36 -0400
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Re: Working with Agar Slants


>I have a few questions for the collective:

>1) Do I use an ordinary DME wort as a starter media?

	Yes, but I typically add some yeast nutrient because many malt
	extracts are deficient - principally in Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN).

>2) How much yeast do I need to scoop off the slant to inoculate a 40ml volume
>starter (one good scrape, or several)?

	One scrape should suffice but 40ml is a bit on the large side.  I use
	10ml as the initial starter.

>3) Can I go right up to a pint from the first starter, or is it important to
>go a step at a time? (40ml to 250ml to pint)

	I pitch my initial 10ml starter right into a 500ml (about a pint)
	starter.  This has worked flawlessly for over 80 batches.

>4) Should I quit screwing around and by a kit?

	It depends on your priorities, IMHO.  If you want to jump in and get
	going with little fuss, then a kit is the way to go.  If you like to
	experiment and don't mind a minor set back or two along the way,
	then do it from scratch.

That said, I really recommend the "Advanced Yeast Culture" kit from the
Brewers Resource ((800) 827-3983).  You'll outgrow this kit after a bit
(it's not that advanced :-)) but it's a great way to get started.


 - --Tony V
(no affiliation with the Brewers Resouce)

- ------- End of Forwarded Message


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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:29:36 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: RIMS question

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Short <timshort at quiknet.com> writes:

Tim> I am going to build a 3 SS keg system with a friend as a
Tim> project.. My friend, the engineer, wants to build a RIMS because
Tim> it is more challenging from a technical standpoint. (He also has
Tim> access to a lot of the equipment at a fairly low cost. Read
Tim> free.) He is very competent so I am not concerned (too much)
Tim> about flubbing it up, but I am concerned after reading all the
Tim> FTP material available about making good consistent beer with a
Tim> RIMS system.

Any remarks about RIMS systems not making good consistent beer stem
from (IMHO) ignorance, either because an individual is spouting off
without any experience whatsoever, or because they built a RIMS and
pardon me, they f***ed up either in design, execution or in using it.
There are many of us who have been using RIMS systems for years and
consistently produce *excellent* beer.  In fact, a RIMS system is
*the* most reliable way to produce consistently excellent beer.

However, just like driving, if you got a jerk driving......  If the
person brewing can't brew good beer, then a RIMS will not be a
solution.  A RIMS system will assist a good brewer to be better and an
excellent brewer to be outstanding because of consistency and
controllability. 

Part of the problem with RIMS systems is that the only definitive
literature on the subject (other than LOTS of HBD info in many little
snippets) is the 4 page article by Rodney Morris in Zymurgy.  While it
is sufficient information for a person like myself who has a complete
shop, is a welder, inventor, gunsmith and all around handy man, and
has Electronic Engineers for friends to help with the circuit board,
it certainly is not enough information for a lot of people to be able
to build a good RIMS from.  That is why I am writing what will
probably be about a 200 page book on how to build one.  It will be
crammed with illustrations and sources for equipment and many
different alternatives all along the way in design and materials
selection.  At this point, it is probably 1/4 completed.  

Don't ask when it will be done or if you can have "pre-publication
parts", but I would be more than happy to answer any questions on the
subject.  All I ask is that you have read and thoroughly understand
the Morris article in Zymurgy 1992 Special issue on Gadgets.  I don't
have time to give everyone on the HBD a *basic* course in RIMS theory
and construction.  My book *will* do that and be simple enough that if
you can identify a soldering iron and a screwdriver, you can build a
RIMS.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:15:51 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: PRIMING / NOVEMBER CLASSIC


Don Seidle, in HBD1833 (sorry I'm a bit behind in my reading),
touts his method of what he calls "injection priming":

I don't mind bottling the way some people do.  The thing many people complain
about--sanitising bottles--I do in the dishwasher.  Filling and capping is
almost relaxing, and there's a certain "craftsmanship" I feel when doing it
and seeing the cases fill up with newly full bottles.  The biggest hassles--
preparing the bottling area and sanitising bottling bucket, racking cane,
and hoses--would still be there if I did kegs, and I would need all that
refrigerator space that I don't have.  I'd also have more expenses and would
have to screw around with CPBF designs that seem to plague some hbd'ers.

But if there's one thing that would drive someone away from bottling, it
would be priming each bottle individually.  Don's method seems appropriate
if you wanted to experiment with different carbonation levels--call it
"custom priming" if you will, but it doesn't seem worth the trouble on a
regular basis.

But if you really want to do it, here's a suggestion to get away from
the tedium of marking lines on a tube and all that Don described, AND
to get a little closer to that "injection" name:

Go get (if you don't have one already) a

       *** Jeff (Not Nancy) Renner Pocket Beer Engine <tm> ***

The Pocket Beer Engine already has the ml markings, and if you were really
careful, you could do multiple 10ml "injections" with a single fill.

The Pocket Beer Engine, ask for it by name!  (But if they give you strange
looks when you do, just go over by the J(NN)R Microwave Cellar Temperators
and look for an oral syringe.)
 - - - - -
Advance announcement of the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's
Tenth Annual November Classic Homebrew Competition, November 11, 1995.
Entry forms will be going out late in September/early October.  The
BJCP registered competition will have a couple of new categories this year,
including a separate category for those Grolsch bottles that get excluded
everywhere else.  Entry form requests to uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
or to MHTG, PO Box 1365, Madison, Wisconsin 53701-1365.  If your club
already gets our newsletter (yes, the newsletter took the summer off)
or if you entered one of our competitions in the last year you're already
on the list.  Otherwise, send us a request and we'll get one out to you!
If you're a BJCP judge and would like to join us in the Midwest's
beer capital for a day of judging and great hospitality, let us know.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino    uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Madison

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:21:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: LT Alan D Czeszynski <czesz at nadn.navy.mil>
Subject: Gott Cooler Conversion - Bung Design Follow-Up


     I was reminded by fellow HBD reader Joe Passante that the       
     flexible tube I was originally
     going to run from the elbow to the bung gets very pliable
     when hot, and chances are it would collapse under the weight
     of the mash.  So I've re-engineered my design to include a
     hard plastic tube between the elbow and the bung.  Since the
     elbow is about 1/3 inch higher than the bung opening, I had
     to ensure some compliance at each end of the hard tube.  I
     felt that if I straight-lined the hard tube through the
     bung, the offset would cause bung deformation, increasing
     the potential for leak-by. The specifics of the modified
     design follow:
     
     1.  Materials:
     
     (1) 12 inch Phalse bottom
     (2) 1-1/2 inch long sections of 3/8 in OD Flex tube
     (1) 5-1/4 inch long section of hard plastic racking cane     
         tube
     (3) 2-1/2 inch long section of hard plastic racking cane
         tube (clear if possible)
     (1) Fass Frisch 5 liter keg bung
     (1) In-line ball valve with barbed fittings for 3/8 inch
         tubing
     
     2.  Set-up procedure:
     
     a.  Slide one end of the 5-1/2 inch racking cane tube about
     1/3 of an inch into one of the 1-1/2 inch long flex tube
     pieces.  Attach the other end of the flex tube to the barbed
     elbow connection, leaving about a 1/8 inch gap between the
     end of the hard tube and the elbow (this is on of the
     compliant joints).  Set this assembly aside.
     
     b.  Remove the hard plastic insert from the bung (save this
     important piece for later use when just using the cooler as
     a cooler, or when washing the cooler!).  Insert the second
     1-1/2 inch flex tube into the opening in the bung, ensure at
     least 1/2 inch projects out of the wide end of the bung (the
     side that will be on the inside of the cooler).
     
     c.  Insert the bung assembly into the cooler.
     
     d.  Insert the 2-1/2 inch long piece of clear racking tube
     into the bung assembly from the outside until the inside end
     just reaches the end of the bung.  About 2 inches will
     project out from the cooler.  I recommend using clear tubing
     here because this is a great place to check for clarity of
     wort run-off using a bright light and a white paper
     background. 
     
     e.  Place the assembly from step (a) into the cooler,
     attaching the free end of the hard plastic tube to the flex
     tube projecting from the bung.  Ensure there is a 1/8 inch
     gap between the two ends of the hard plastic tubes.  This is
     the second compliant joint.
     
     f.  Attach the ball vale to the hard plastic tubing
     projecting out from the bung using the remaining short
     length of flex tube.  
     
     I op-tested this rig last night with 8 gallons of water at
     150 deg.  There were no leaks after 10 hours.  The seal is
     sufficiently tight that there is no need for any adhesives
     or other sealing compounds.  The apparatus can be easily
     removed for cleaning, or to convert your cooler back to its
     original function.  You can also remove everything but the
     bung and re-insert the hard plastic plug that came with it
     for easy washing.
     
     A few people have asked where I got the bung and the valve,
     here is the info for all (standard no promo disclaimer
     applies):
     
     The valve is pretty common at homebrew stores.  One mail
     order source I know of is HopTech, p 19 of the summer
     catalog, for $2.25. 1-800-DRY-HOPS

     The bung should be sold anywhere the 5 liter kegs are sold. 
     I bought mine from the Brew Pot in Bowie, MD (301) 805-6799.
     
     Alan.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LT Alan Czeszynski, USN                | czesz at greatlakes.nadn.navy.mil
                                       |
  Department of Naval Architecture,    |
  Ocean and Marine Engineering         | voice: 410-293-6436
                                       |   fax: 410-293-2219
U. S. Naval Academy   Annapolis,  MD   |   DSN: 281-6436



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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:51:08 EST
From: gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: thread21 for DOS problem

In HBD #1817 I posed a question and thought I would share my results
with the collective:

>> I've a question about the thread21 program
>> for DOS users that is loaded at Stanford.  I've been trying to
>> search the files on my hard drive, but every time I run the
>> program it goes to the first file and finishes the search.  It
>> doesn't search the first file, I know because I set up the search
>> parameters for something in the middle of that file, and it failed
>> to find it.  I read the READ.ME file and I followed the directions
>> in the program [they are pretty simple, well, maybe not simple
>> enough ;^)].  If anyone can give me a hint as to what I'm doing
>> wrong I sure would appreciate it.
[snip]

I received a reply from Tom Kaltenbach (the author or thread21):

> As the author of THREAD, I've received several reports of problems
> like the one you describe.  The answer in almost all cases is this:
> THREAD did not find any delimiters between the messages in the first
> file, and aborted the search.  Actually, THREAD v2.1 does print out
> an error message, but then clears the screen so quickly that the
> message is invisible on all but the slowest computers.  I guess it's
> time to upload the latest version of THREAD to the archives (if only
> to get my current email address into the READ.ME file!).

> Now, about the nature of this delimiter problem:  THREAD is looking
> for a series of dashes that start with the first character in the
> line. Most invalid delimiters are caused by some mailer (typically
> an IBM mainframe node) inserting a space as the first character of
> every line.  Another possibility is that if the file was downloaded
> from a Unix system, the lines may not end in a carriage
> return/linefeed combination, and so the file is not a valid DOS text
> file (Unix uses only a linefeed).
[snip]

In subsequent e-mail discussions with Tom he informed me that there is
a program that fixes the unix - DOS problem.  It adds the carriage
return/linefeed characters to the end of each line of the files in
question.   This file can be found at wuarchive.wustl.edu
/systems/ibmpc/simtel/msdos or oak.oakland.edu /simtel/msdos/filedocs,
the file is lfcrlf11.zip.

Once the files were fixed using the lfcrlf11.zip program thread21
worked great.  I had several hundred digests that I had transferred
from Stanford and this saved me a lot of aggravation.

It's also a good idea to have only digest files in the subdirectory.

Steve

          Steve Gravel       gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
          "Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"


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Date:          Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:42:50 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject:       Re: Used Homebrew Equipment 4 Sale Newsgroup

Dear Friends (to steal a line from Dave Draper):

You may recall several months ago, we discussed forming a newsgroup 
in which we could post and read 'for sale' notices for used homebrew 
equipment. This never came to pass as I could not identify anyone 
willing or able to add the group. Posting to the usenet.admin 
newsgroup for guidance turned out to be a waste of time.

A potential solution: I am willing to trial a used 4 sale area on my 
homepage. I intend to create a new page and link it in this weekend. 
Anyone wishing to post an ad: provide your internet address, 
geographical area (ie: SE Michigan, USA or something to that effect), 
a description of your items, and what you expect in return. I will 
compile these on a regular basis (depending on volume) and publish 
them on my page. They will rotate out in that update period (no 
effort will be made to ascertain whether or not something has sold - 
each update will be from whatever I receive following the last 
update).

So for starters, send your 'ad' to pbabcock at oeonline.com. Put "For 
Sale Used", less the quotes, as your subject, and include the 
necessary info as described above.

Sorry - as I'm doing this out of the 'goodness of my heart' (ie,
there will be no financial gain for me) I would appreciate *NOT*
receiving any commercial 'ads'. 

I realize this is only useful to those who can 'surf the web', but it 
is better than nothing - which is exactly what we have now! The 
intended direct URL will be HTTP://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/4sale.html

I will allow the 'volume' of ads determine the acceptance or 
rejection of this idea.

Cheer!

Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock    | "Drink all you want - I'll brew more!"
President, Brew-Master      | 
and Chief Taste-Tester      | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point 
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery |  at the end of your day as every sentence 
pbabcock at oeonline.com       |  requires proper punctuation." -PGB
SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758

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Date: 20 Sep 1995 13:55:25 -0400
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas at msgw.vf.mmc.com>
Subject: Beer Marketing

Kirk Fleming about his perceptions about true beer quality vs. actual beer
marketing, and I thinks he's right on target.  Several years ago I saw the
results of a marketing study (of course I can't offer any references) which
basically said the following.  I'll be loose with the particulars, but the
message remains true:

The beer market is divided into categories (many less in those days), for
example:  Economy beer (Milwaukee's Best, Schaefer's, etc/now even Generic
Beer), Working Man's Beer (Schlitz, Pabst), Premium Beer (Bud, Miller, etc, )
and Super Premium (Michelob-remember Michelob).  

You can tell from the brands that it's a bit dated, and don't flame me on the
premium/super premium distinction-the conclusions still hold.  Also note that
there are more niches nowadays.  Enough disclaimers-on with the message!

The researchers made up labels and images (ads, etc) to correspond with each
market category (say 4), and slapped the 4 different labels representing 4
market segments on 4 bottles of THE SAME BEER.  The results were as expected: 
People tended to prefer the beer that corresponded to the market segment that
they belong to, and many said that one or more of the 4 (identical) beers was
*Nearly undrinkable*.  This study clearly proved that people buy what they are
told to buy, only the names and market segments change.  The beer doesn't
matter.

What does this say for Homebrewing?  The same thing that Top 40 music says for
experimental jazz.  Numbers for the masses dominate the marketing/business end
of the industry.  It is encouraging to see micros and homebrewers making good
products, but it is simply naive to think that the best quality beer will
really sell more than the best marketed beer.  I guess my message is to make
really good beer AND market it well so maybe some bit of the appreciation for
quality will infect the consumer.

Thanks for reading, and can someone dredge up the original study to which I
make (loose) reference???

Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ

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Date: 20 Sep 1995 11:49:23 -0700
From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com>
Subject: Sink Fermentations / CF cleaning

Douglas Kerfoot writes:

> If you are willing to risk open fermentation, why spend the money on
> stainless?  Surely anyone who is even considering open fermentation  >
should not be afraid of plastic.

I have to disagree here.  I find plastic to be difficult to sanitize as it
becomes scratched over time regardless of how careful I am in its handling. 
My goal is to develop an open fermentation system that, at a minimal cost,
provides the best possible fermentor geometry, ease of use, ease of cleaning,
trub removal and yeast harvesting.  While the flat bottomed sink is surely
not as good as a conical fermentor, it is considerably less expensive and
will fit in my basement ;-{>.

As to the expense involved, I just saw an ad in this mornings paper for a
brand new double stainless sink for $27.00.  Add drain hardware and some
lumber and you're up to $45.00.  Pretty cheap if you ask me.

As to CF chiller cleaning, I've always cleaned mine by running hot water
through it after each use and I store it with Iodophor solution in it with
the ends capped.  At the beginning of the brew day, I run hot water through
it again to flush it out.  I haven't had any problems with this procedure to
date.

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:10:52 est
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Carbonator

Greetings from the Carbonator wasteland.

I have been trying to find a Carboantor here in Montreal, but no luck. 
 The most common response is: "Carbowhat???"

If anyone knows of a place that carries them and does mail order I'd 
be much obliged.

Matt
Montreal, Que.




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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:52 EDT
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: re: O2 absorbing caps

(Yes! I've been posting a lot of questions lately...there's a lot of great
beer minds out there! :-)

Thanks to all of the group regarding my fruit/weizen and Wyeast #2278
questions.  For the record...

*I had a strawberry (rasberry?) weizen this summer at the Valley Forge Brewery
that was GREAT!  No real clove character, but the bananna ester and the
berries worked very well together.  I may still try making one...

*Most folks said that they have used Wyeast #2278 (Czech Pils) without fining
amd haven't had cloudy beer. Hefe-Pils ???

I just got 2 gross of O2 absorbing caps and was wondering what was the best
way of sanitizing them.  I know boiling is out; I don't think bleach would be
very good for them, so what do I use?  Iodophor?  Something else???

Thanks for all the help...it's finally cooling down in the east...
GET BREWING!!!
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 13:33:05 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Keeping yeast strains pure

Edmund writes:
> I'd expect that all 
>of these beers will be produced with the same yeast as Bud, et.al. 
>Apparently, keeping the yeast strain pure and uncontaminated is a major 
>concern for them.

I've heard this argument before from various brewpubs and I don't buy it.
If a brewery has such lousy sanitation procedures to have a real risk of
cross-contamination between yeasts, then I don't want to drink their
beer.  It's probably infected with all kinds of nasty stuff.  No, I think
that most micros or brewpubs that use only one yeast do so because:

1. it is one fifth the work to keep one strain of yeast alive than five, and

2. they can repitch into the next batch every time without the hassle
of making up a 1bbl starter from a slant.

So, I personally think that all those cross-contamination stories are bull.

There are a number of brewpubs that do use different yeasts and,
NOT coincidentally, their beer has the most variety of flavour.  Goose
Island uses at least four yeasts and the last time I talked to one of the
owners, Mishawaka B.C. used at least five (although the last time I was
there, the beers tasted like they were made from only two yeasts).

Al.


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Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: RE:RE-PITCHING

In HBD 1834, Doug Flagg <dflagg at orono.sdi.agate.net> said:

>That's the big difference between the professional brewers and us
>professional homebrewers.  The other guys put the same brew out the
>door day after day, THAT'S why they can (and do) reuse their yeast.
>I brew a different brew every time so I guess I'll just have to
>start a new yeast every time also...

True, but you can IMHO learn a lot by re-using the same yeast, and
re-pitching is the name of the game for producing great ferments, IMHO.
The yeast, afterall, doesn't COMPLETELY define the beer...

Do any of you streak out the yeast that you recover, just to check for
impurities, and not culture it?  (Unless you find something bad in the
sample, perhaps, or just toss the yeast at that point.)

Just curious,

- --Brian Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu>

- --Brian K. Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu> Ball State University
       Offices of Academic Assessment and Institutional Research
       1825 Riverside Avenue, Muncie, IN  47306  (317) 285-5209



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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:56:15 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: "Maybe?" = "Must!"


> From: dkerfoot at freenet.macatawa.org (Douglas Kerfoot)
> Subject: HBD Logic
> 
> Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> writes:
> 
> >When I was extract only, I would get a fair bit of foam in my boils.  Not as
> >much as all-grain, but more than you describe.  Maybe you're not boiling 
                                                   ^^^^^
> >vigorously enough?
                    ^^

> I love HBD logic: Obviously, if you are not experiencing a problem, you must
> be doing something wrong.

Maybe you're not reading too carefully?  Maybe you're an oversensitive ninny?

Xrist, kid, I don't know.  Maybe the original poster (you?) was boiling TOO 
vigorously.  Maybe the wide variety of products he claimed to use all happened 
to be from a bum batch?  Why the heck would be have posted if he didn't want 
a critique on his style?  

What _IS_ your problem?

Besides, "must" is used in winemaking and meadmaking.  In beer, we call it 
"wort".  (And maybe we mispronounce it, too...)

Obviously, if you're experiencing a problem that others aren't, you probably 
are doing something "different" than they are.  If your beer is better than
there's, you're doing something right.

 -R

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Date:          Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:12:09 EDT
From: "Herb B. Tuten" <HERB at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Subject:       Underpitching

**** Late post, I tried posting this on Tuesday but my server messed up.
**** I'd still like to know what anyone thinks about this.....

I extract-brewed a batch of ale Saturday night and pitched a rehydrated 
14 gram Edme yeast. I've never paid much attention to yeast but now I 
know better, because Sunday evening there was no activity at all in the
primary, not even pressure in the air-lock!  Not going down without a 
fight, I rehydrated a 7 gram pack of M&F that I had in the frig and 
carefully pitched it Sunday night.  Monday morning. I had wonderful 
activity, vigorous bubbling.  Now, Tuesday morning it is slowing down 
and I'm thinking "7 grams was too little, maybe I should toss in another 7g 
to keep the fermentation going".  The last thing I want is a high final 
gravity and I wonder if I can keep that from happening.

What do you think?  Would you add more yeast or is late-pitching 
harmful?  And since there's already 14 grams of dead/inactive yeast in 
there, how much yeast is too much?? 

Thanks in advance for any yeasty advice.

herb at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:35:03 -0400
From: lconrad at apollo.hp.com
Subject: Beers of Warsaw and Brussels

I was in Poland (including Warsaw) in 1991.  At that time, there was not a
wide variety of beers available.  This could have changed by now.

Everything I had was a Northern European Pilsener style.  There are several
local beers, but the typical restaurant or cafe only has one of them.  The
upscale ones also have an imported german beer (Becks seemed to be most
common.)  The only A-B comparison I was able to do was between the Becks and
the local (Okocim?) beer.  The major difference was that the Becks had more
hop aroma.

As I said, this might have all changed -- things were changing pretty fast,
and hops is one of the agricultural products they were pushing.


			Laura

  Snail Mail:           -------    Laura Conrad
  Hewlett-Packard Co.  |   /       Phone:  (508) 436-4243
  300 Apollo Drive     |  /        Internet: lconrad at apollo.hp.com
  Chelmsford, Ma 01824 | /___      Mail stop: chr-01-fo  
		       |_______    Fax: (508) 436-5117
		       --------

   Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:40:57 -0400
   From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com

   Hope someone can help me on this.  I'll be going to Warsaw, Poland and
   Brussels, Belgium in the near future.  I would appreciate anyone suggesting
   local beers to try in these cities.  TIA
   Andy Kliagerman
   homebre973 at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:18:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: sprmario at netcom.com (Mario Robaina)
Subject: Diluted batches

Quick question:  what are the differences between brewing a concentrated 
batch and diluting it with water after the boil, versus sparging the same 
amount of grains with enough water to collect the full volume?  For 
example, I want to brew some 10 gallon batches, but only have room to 
boil 6.  I have brewed concentrated 5 gallon batches (1.100) and diluted 
them to 10 gallons with water post-boil, with good results.  However, I 
assume there is some reason that people generally sparge larger batches with 
larger amounts of sparge water (aside from a general aversion to 
"watering-down").

I understand that concentrated boils change a few things (hop 
utilization, carmelization, among others), and that there is always a 
risk in adding unboiled (read un-sanitized) water to wort.  Aside from 
these concerns are any other reasons *not* to do concentrated boils and 
dilute?

TIA,

John

(sprmario at netcom.com or jgirard at leland.stanford.edu)


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:38:47 -0700
From: rownby at televar.com (Ray Ownby)
Subject: oak chips

What's the consensus on using oak chips in an IPA?  My last one turned out
great, but just curious what the opinions of people who've made more than
one IPA are.  TIA,

 -Ray-

"Aye, aye, Bessy, never brew wi' bad malt upo' Michaelmas day, else you'll
have a poor tap."
     -Mr. Tulliver                             From "The Mill on the Floss"
                                                       by George Eliot

rownby at televar.com

 -Ray Ownby-
  Moses Lake, WA


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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:38:48 -0400
From: Millnerp at aol.com
Subject: Cooling Beer Line

I have a keg set up in my garage in which I usually keep one commercial and
one homebrew keg.  I'd like to run a beer tube into my den and set up a bar
with my tap there.  This distance is going to be about 30-40 feet and
according to my caluculations at any time several ounces of beer will be in
the line (Clearly to much to waste) so I'm wondering how to keep the beer in
the line cool. I assume bars either pour beer fast enough that it does not
get warm or have some type of devise to keep the beer in the line cool.  Does
anyone have an inexpensive, simple solution?

PM 

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:10:06 -0400
From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Request for London Bitter Recipes



I visited London last month, and fell in love with the beer.  I
tried several "real" ales.  I can best describe them as warm,
flat, and absolutely delicious.  I also enjoyed several bottled
varieties, most notably Fuller's ESB.  Anyway, does anyone have
any good recipes for London-style bitter, in a partial mash/extract
format?  I have seen several, but I would like to hear from
someone who has brewed, and enjoyed, a London-style bitter.

- --
Jeff Hewit
******************************************************************************
Eat a live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse
will happen to you the rest of the day.

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:29:35 -0400
From: FxBonz at aol.com
Subject: Heavenly water OR water from hell?

Fellow Brewers,
  
     Glad to be back.  I tried to post a few days/weeks ago but got no
acknowledgement so  I'll try again.  

     It took a bit of time to catch up on 3+ months of back HBDs but I
managed.  We have relocated the Outlaw Pico Operation but have yet to set it
up. The SO thinks I need to devote my spare time to unpacking boxes, hanging
pictures and such - yeesh - go figure.  

     I obtained a copy of the local water analysis and I think I may be
blessed but may be cursed (please, no reference to the religion thread
intended).  It is:

     Hardness (as CaCO3) 6.1mg\L (6.0 - 6.2)
                              Ca+ 1.5mg/L
                              Mg   .58mgL
                              Fl    1mg/L
         all others < threshold of 0.1mg/L

     The water source is the same lake that was dammed up in the movie
Deliverance.  They did analysis every 6 months for a couple of years but
since it remained stable now only do it about every other year.  If this data
is right then I have some of the softest water this side of Pilsen, Czech.  I
brew primarily ales and so will have to doctor the water a bit, no alot!  Is
the Sumary of water treatment on page 103 of Dave Line's BBOB a reasonable
start point - I have never needed to modify my water before.    Can I make
ales from this "destined to be lager" water?  Do I need to convert my palate
to a pils palate? Are my ale days ruined?

Steve
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
                                                                 The Alabama
Outlaw

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 23:25 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: MALTMILLS AND MOTORS

 
 
 Sorry for the untimely nature of this but I have been trying 
 to post  this for about a month and it keeps bouncing but I 
 keep trying.....
 
 This time I mailed it to myself from my IBM and downloaded 
 on the Apple and resent it.  We will see.....
 
 >From: FLATTER%MHS at mhs.rose-hulman.edu
 >Subject: Re: MM Motorization
 >If I remember correctly, the reference related a discussion 
 with Jack Schm. about motorizing his roller mills.  
 [Standard warning about invalidating the warranty.] ...
 
 Just for the record, there is no such warning.  The warning 
 is to call a doctor and not a lawyer if you chew your hand 
 up.  The only effect on the warranty would be that if it  
 were used in a commercial  (brewery) environment, we may 
 elect to charge a nominal fee to re-knurl the rollers should 
 they get dull after a few billion tons of malt were crushed.
 
 >The suggestion was for no more than 200 RPM and 1/4 HP 
 electric  motor with a  belt drive.
 
 200 is ideal and very forgiving.  I would put the max at 400 
 because it  starts throwing  malt around instead of crushing 
 it beyond that speed.
  
 1/4 HP is adequate but it may not always start up under 
 load.  One should always start without a load but phones do 
 ring and crisis do occur that require stopping with the 
 hopper half full.  This could require emptying the hopper 
 before restarting with a smaller motor.  I actually sold one 
 with a 1/30 HP motor because I was so paranoid about people 
 getting hurt.   But I have since taken the easy way out  and 
 refuse to sell them with motors.
 
 George Fix was the above customer and he immediately threw 
 away the motor and put on a real one.
 
 > A geared, direct drive won't allow any slippage in the 
 rare event that the rollers jam.
 
 Every (several) user that has reported problems with 
 motorized mills  has confessed to using a gear motor and I 
 can't emphasize enough the caution against them.  I am 
 inclined to void the warranty in this case but prefer just 
 to advise against it.  The problem when using a  geared down 
 motor is that one can not take advantage of pulley ratios to 
 provide traction between the motor and mill.  People either 
 resort  to chains and sprockets or worse yet, just cranking 
 up the belt tension till traction is achieved.  The effect 
 this has is to stress the drive shaft, i. e., it bends it 
 ever so slightly.  No problem if it just stood still but as 
 it rotates, this tiny bend is applied to the entire 
 circumference and given time, the shaft simply falls off, 
 just like magic.
 
 >From: Jeffrey B. Bonner <t3345 at fel1.nfuel.com>
 >Jack, recommends that you use at least a .5 hp electric 
 motor with the typical shaft speed of 1700 RPM and reduce to 
 400 RPM via two pulleys.
 
 Just for the record, I do no recommend anything, I simply 
 pass on what others tell me works.
 
 >I personally perfer to use a gear motor.  One digester 
 pointed me to Surplus Center (sorry I don't have the 1-800 
 number now, but will post if there is interest) where I 
 purchased a gear motor running at 325 RPM for $29.95.  This 
 way, I didn't have to mess with pulleys, idlers, etc.
 
 PLINK!
 
 How are you coupling the two?
 
 If you use a direct drive, two things can happen:
 
 Nothing can slip so you chew up the rollers in the event a 
 foreign object gets into the mill.
 
 In the event of a real jam and enough torque, the weakest 
 link is the fast gear in the gear box and these are 
 frequently plastic and self-destruct.
 
 >Thanks again to everyone who wrote to me and Jack for 
 calling me back!
 
 It was a pleasure talking to you but I can't imagine how I 
 let you off the hook on the gear motor business.
 
 js
 
 
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1837, 09/21/95