FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Request for Root Beer Recipies (Mark Peacock)
  RIMS getting hot again. (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  replacement spigots for 10 gal gott cooler (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Dixie Cup Brewfeast (SCHWAB_BRYAN)
  SA Triple Bock attempts (Guy Mason)
  More on multi yeast breweries (Jim Busch)
  Re: More RIMS Questions (Jeff Berton)
  Re: REPITCH'ing (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
  pitching rate of yeast (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
  Green Beer! ("Jeffrey W. Van Deusen")
  Oops: Virtual Great American Beer Festival (Shawn Steele)
  sanitizers and false bottoms (Mark Kirby)
  cornelious (sp?) fitting (Jeffrey B. Bonner)
  Transplanting Hops (Paul Sovcik)
  Disturbing E-mail. (Russell Mast)
  Illegal Homebrewing (hadleyse)
  Lactic acid in wit bee (kit.anderson)
  pub talk (Bryan L. Gros)
  RIMS spray ball? (Tim Laatsch)
  Re: sanitizing caps /free yeast slurry /rushing the growler (Brian Pickerill)
  Conversion Temps/Nukie Brown (Rob Reed)
  Juicing Apples for Cider (Nicholas A. Franke)
  Thanks/New Beers (Ray Ownby)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 06:42 EDT
From: Mark Peacock <mpeacock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Request for Root Beer Recipies

On behalf of my pregnant sister, I'm asking for a couple of good root beer
recipies.  I've seen them posted here before, but ignored them -- no need to
brew anything without alcohol, I thought.  I obviously didn't think enough.
Given the number of times root beer recipies have been posted, private
e-mail is probably the appropriate response to this request.

ObBeer:  It's amazing how easy home brew aging experiments are when you're
on the road for 5 days a week.

Regards,
Mark Peacock
mpeacock at oeonline.com
Big Business on the Web:  http://oeonline.com/~mpeacock/bbusiness.html


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 21:27:12 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RIMS getting hot again.

Recently Jim Busch and Dion Hollen posted,

Dion><In fact, a RIMS system is
Dion> < *the* most reliable way to produce consistently excellent beer.

Jim> I find this statement very hard to stomach.  In my mind, there is
Jim> nothing about a RIMS that allows it to make more reliable beer
Jim> than a traditional fired and well designed system.  In fact, I
Jim> venture to suggest that in my 1 BBl pilot system, it is more
Jim> reliable and consistent than any RIMS one BBL system could ever
Jim> be.  

Dion>Maybe with *you* at the controls, but what if somebody distracts you
Dion>just when you were about to stir the mash??

Jim> The key to any system is good even heating, good mixing of
Jim> the goods and good brewers practices, non of which is exclusive
Jim> to a RIMS system.  

Dion>I totally agree with this statement.  However, even though these
Dion>qualities are not exclusive to a RIMS, it is my contention that a RIMS
Dion>will more consistently produce these qualities than any hand stirred
Dion>mashing system. 

Gee fellas, they are both heat exchangers and if you ignore first principles 
they'll both give you trouble. 

Jim is right in saying there is nothing especially reliable about RIMS, or new 
either. Heating viscous fluids using continous process heat exchangers has been 
around since last century. This one has a new name and sparges during mash too! 
However the fact that it might over sparge steered me away from it.

RIMS is a heat exchanger, usually with a bloody small exchange area, a bloody 
large temperature differential, and the problem of maintaining turbulent flow 
in a viscous fluid in a small space.

For those who missed my post on heat exchangers in wort cooling, "turbulent 
flow" is when the boundary layers that form at a fluid/solid interface during 
laminar flow are broken down. Then, heat convection replaces transmission 
through this insulating boundary layer. The "overall coeficient of heat 
transfer" jumps from about 1.25 kW/m2K   to 12.5 kW/m2K , 10 times the 
efficiency!  
Because RIMS usually has a small heat area, (the surface of the element),  the 
setup is suseptible to scorching and variable heating efficiency especially if 
the pump speed is close to non-turbulent flow. The usual remedy has been to 
build electronic controls.
There are very  complex formulae for calculating turbulent flow, but 1/10 of a 
metre per second is pretty safe with wort in a 1 inch tube.

I suggest that RIMS designers maximise their heating areas, in order to lower 
their temperature differentials, and increase their pump speeds and keep them 
constant. Also calculate how many recyclings occur during your RIMS mash and 
ask yourself "would I conventionally sparge this much? Maybe a pH paper in a 
clear plastic hose would be a useful addition to my system to prevent over 
extraction of phenols?"

Jim extols the virtures of "good even heating", that is the first principal of 
any exchanger setup. Dion, who RIMS stirs his mash with a pump assumes Jim 
stirs his with a spoon? 
 I have a machine driven stirrer, a PID controlled gas pressure valve and a gas 
heater under a inverted cone hot-gas/metal/fluid heat exchanger.(ribs under it 
absorb the heat from the gas) I have a large area of exchange, which allows a 
controlled but low temperature differential, and the blade type stirring arms 
rotate quickly and close enough to the cone,  preventing scorching. I can stop 
the arms and inject steam into the thick part  for gelatinization of starch.
Maybe Jim uses electricity, buckets of hot water, or even wood as a heat 
source, but I think he is saying "keep it simple, it's more 
controllable".(that's been his criticism of some of my more gadgety proposals) 
His is a batch process heat exchanger, but  the electronic controls and machine 
stirring of RIMS, used in any well thought out design, would produce similar 
stability with less tendency to scorch.

Yes, with external heaters,  machine stirring (faster than turbulent flow) is 
more reliable, especially if you have a busy phone life as Dion suggests.
However a large heat exchange surface is essential, lower temperature 
differentials are easier to control.
Electronic temperature control, especially PID, is also great, a number of 
sensors and an averaging function is tops.
None of these functions is exclusive to any heat exchanger design, but simpler 
designs are just that..

Personally, I'd swap all my gadgets for another 10 years experience and a bit 
of sixth sense!

Charlie  (Brisbane Australia)

"This is not a flame, it's an infusion!" CS











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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:23:15 -0400
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: replacement spigots for 10 gal gott cooler


Hi,
    I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has purchased
a Gott replacement spigot from the US Plastics catalog...
specificly, which item, model number, etc...

Regards,
ChuckM

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 09:56:04 CDT
From: SCHWAB_BRYAN at ccmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Dixie Cup Brewfeast

     
     Hello out there!! Need information on the upcoming Dixie Cup Brewfest 
     if anyone knows the specifics and can relate them to me.
     
     Thank-you
     
     Bryan Schwab
     SCHWAB_BRYAN at CCMAIL.NCSC.NAVY.MIL


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 9:06:38 EDT
From: Guy Mason <guy%opus at adra.com>
Subject: SA Triple Bock attempts

Greetings to the Collective,

Has anyone out there had any success in trying to duplicate SA triple bock?
I've got a decent doppelbock recipe that I was going to add some maple syrup
to, but I thought I'd tap (all puns intended) the Collective Wisdom first.

Any recipes and/or hints would be greatly appreciated.

- --
o   o
 \ /     M A T R I X
  o--o
 / \   O    Guy Mason               voice: 203-944-2020x190
o   \ /     guy at matrixNet.com       fax: 203-944-2022
  O--O--O
    / \     MATRIX, 2 Trap Falls Road, Shelton, CT 06484
   O   O


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:08:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: More on multi yeast breweries

Ken writes about multi yeast breweries:

<Yeast tend to hide in a brewery in inconvienant places. The most frustrating 
<place seems to be in the filter. The filter is a very difficult piece of 
<equipment to clean. Since the beer is filtered before it goes to the 
<brightening tank, cross cantanimation could occure before the beer is 
<conditioned. Why not clean the filter: 1. filter paper is expensive, most 
<breweries try to run more than one batch through the paper.

Plate frame filters, the one using pads, are intended to be used once
, maybe twice and thrown away.  It is costly, but cross contamination is
a worse problem since one customer with a bad experience tells 10-20
of thier friends.  

< Labor equals time. Time is money.

Actually, labor costs are pennies in the grand scheme of brewery finance.
The big ticket items are packaging, interest on capital and facility costs/
insurance.  You'd be amazed at the cost of insurance for a brewpub (your
serving alcohol??!, your gonna pay for that ....)

<Fermentation tanks and conditioning tanks also require sanatation and 
<thorough cleaning. Most operation seem to run several batches through before 
<giving the tank a real scrub down though most operations do rinse the tanks 
<between each batch. 

Not the way to run a brewery.  Empty tank, vent CO2, rinse tank, add 20-50
gals hot water and caustics, CIP.  Empty tank, add 20 gal iodophor, CIP,
empty tank fill wort.  Very basic.  Unitanks != scrubbing!  This is 
typically done by one brewer as he brews the next wort.  It only takes
a few minutes to cycle, and the CIP pumps run for 20-30 minutes while the
brewer does something else.

<Multi 
<yeast breweries would require more fermentaton tanks to keep the yeast 
<cultures seperate.

See above, unitanks hold any product at any stage.

<Most breweries buy yeast from the major yeast producers in varying volumes.
<Wyeast is a major supplier in this area. Most brewers do not build a starter 
<from a slant but from rather large cultures.

Replace "most" with "some" in above.  Most breweries I deal with grow from
a culture.  Cultures of Weihenstephan come on a dry cotton ball.  Others
come on slants.  Think about it, you have a constant supply of wort, it
is rather simple to step up cultures when you have readily available 
oxygenated wort.

<The main object of a brewery is to make money so the doors stay open.

Of course.  And by offering more diverse range of beers you will get a 
wider audience and make more profits by selling more beer.  

Not a flame, just relating how "most" breweries operate around here, 
using several strains of yeast.

Good brewing, 

Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLONDE HOPPEBIER!"

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:12:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Berton)
Subject: Re: More RIMS Questions

Harlan Bauer writes:
>1. What is an appropriate recirculation rate in a RIMS system, or what is
>the ideal range? What are the variables that affect optimum performance?

I use a March MDX-1/2 magnetic drive pump with a speed controller in my pony
keg-sized RIMS, which delivers a maximum rate of 5.5 gal/min at zero head. 
This works well for my typical 10-14 pounds of grist batches.  Although I
haven't experimented with reduced pumping rates to determine what the minimum
acceptable rate might be, a high rate seems prudent minimize temperature
gradients within the mash and to minimize scorching in the in-line heater.  I
have not, by the way, seen any scorching in my 1000-Watt system, and my mash
temperature gradients are small.

>2. How is the recirculated wort re-introduced to the top of the grain-bed
>without disturbing it? A sparging mechinism wouldn't work because the grist
>initially recirculated would clog the holes.

To evenly distribute the heated wort throughout the tun, I split the flow
coming back into the tun a couple of times using hose-barbed "tee" fittings and
plastic tubing.  I submerge each of the four exit tubes just under the grain
surface to minimize foaming and hot-side aeration.  With a lid on the tun,
however, only steam exists inside, so I don't think there's much risk of HSA.

>3. Are there any clever devices that can be placed in-line to heat the
>recirculating wort for step-mashing, or to maintain temperature during a
>single- step infusion? I'm thinking of some species of electric hot water
>heater element encased in a piece of pipe plumbed in-line which the
>recirculating wort could pass over/thru, but I'm open to suggestions.

I use a 1000-Watt immersion heater encased in some copper fittings.  I put the
heater just downstream of the pump and control its output with a high-load
dimmer switch.  As I've posted here before, I find that the manually-controlled
dimmer is a simple way to maintain temperature rests without building a complex
electronic thermostat.

A detailed description of my RIMS has been in the digest's archives
(ftp.stanford.edu) for some time.  It can be found at
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/docs/rims_setup.
- --
Jeff Berton, Aeropropulsion Analysis Office, NASA Lewis Research Center
jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:17:16 -0700 (MST)
From: mcb at abrams.abrams.com (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
Subject: Re: REPITCH'ing


On the repitching thread:

I usually don't repitch. My problem with repitching is mostly time based.
(ie: yeast washing involves canning water and then carefully washing dregs.)
However; for those who argue pitching on top of the dregs of your last
batch: I also object to reusing a carboy which has a 2" 'brown scum' "ring 
around the collar". Last night I think I came up with a method which will
allow me to repitch more often. 
The brew season is just beginning here in the desert. (I don't like to brew
with the temp outside is over 110F. Holding mash temps is easy; standing
over the: mashing, sparging, boiling, CF chilling (there's an interesting
subject!), is not much fun.) Last week I brewed a 'tiny' beer for my wife.
With the help of 8oz of London Ale yeast slurry from a local microbrewery.
Yesterday I brewed an IPA. When I started my CF chilling I racked the tiny
off the trub and yeast into a secondary for dry hopping. I then redirected
some of the chilled green beer into the primary. This got everything into
solution. I then used the same racking setup to start a siphon into a 1500ml
pyrex flask/beaker allowed this to settle while the chilling completed and
pitched 1/2 into each of my carboys. I had blow off in the 7.5gal in 3hrs.
It looks like I provided enough space in the 5gal (it was active in 3 also).
The important step which does *not* get noted above is that I was able to
clean my *dirty* (I know it was still sanitized enough for brewing; but, it
did look nasty.) carboy while the 1st one was filling.
I believe this would work for immersion and single carboy brewers as well.
The IM's could 'quick chill' a pint and use it to get the yeast cake into
solution. The single carboy (or bucket) types could also use this method
(although the washing step would add some time to the total brew day).
I do think that the use of Iodophor as a sanitizing agent plays a large role
in my setup. By using 15ppm and 5 min contact time I'm able to skip the
constant rinsing of bleach users while still being assured of good sanitation.

Next weekend it's 10gal of porter, then on to the stouts (with repitching of
course!).

Good brewing,
Mark

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:15:29 -0700 (MST)
From: mcb at abrams.abrams.com (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
Subject: pitching rate of yeast


MAURAPAT at aol.com askes about pitching rates of yeast slurry from a brewpub.
At our last Brewathon Bremiester's Anonymous used ~5oz of yeast slurry per
5gals. All brewers reported 3 day primary ferments (some complained of 3am
blowoff volcanos :-). No one used starters. (London Ale, W=1028)
(We brewed 441 gallons in 1 day with 25 brewstations.)
The slurry you will get has just settled out. It's fresh and waiting for
more malt sugar. Don't mess with it, just pitch it. (the brewmaster did say
to wait no longer than 48hrs.)
With that said: I couldn't use the 8oz that I got on a Sunday. So I did
make 12oz of 1.035 OG just to give it something to live on until I could brew.
I was able to brew on Tuesday so I probably didn't need to *feed* it.

Good brewing,
Mark

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:32:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jeffrey W. Van Deusen" <VANDEUSEN001 at WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU>
Subject: Green Beer!


Scott asked about how to get the green in his proposed green beer. At a
local health food store I saw small packets of what was called (I think)
"green magna". It is derived from edible blue-green algae and also has
a barley base! It's all natural with no artificial garbage, and it was
only about $0.40 cents per package. It's a small quantity that you get
(perhaps only 15 or 20 grams), so you may need to use more than one to
get the desired results. As far as when to add, I would suggest right
after the boil, but before chilling the wort.

I have bought some of this stuff myself, and will post my results when
I use it.

Jeff in Danbury, CT


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 09:50:41 -0600
From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org>
Subject: Oops: Virtual Great American Beer Festival

Hi, our access provider (Colorado SuperNet) had e-mail problems when I
sent this originaly, so I don't know if it made it or not.  My
apologies if this is a duplication.

 - shawn

Subject: Virtual Great American Beer Festival

Spread the news!

Virtual Great American Beer Festival
October 5-7, 1995

There will be a virtual gathering on the World Wide Web for the 1995
Great American Beer Festival from 6:00 p.m, Thursday, Oct. 5, through
midnight, Saturday, Oct. 7, Mountain time.  This virtual GABF will
coincide with the 14th annual Great American Beer Festival in Denver,
Colorado.  This event promises to be the largest, most exciting,
domestic beer celebration to date, with more than 1,345 different beers
from over 335 breweries.

Visit the Virtual GABF on the World Wide Web at:

http://www.aob.org/aob/gabf/virtual.html

Our on-line events will include discussions with people at the Great
American Beer Festival through our beer pages, as well as other beer
enthusiasts around the world.  Visit our web site to find out which
beers and breweries will be featured during the Virtual GABF.  On
Saturday the 7th, the Professional Panel Blind Tasting results will be
posted!

Enjoy the Festival,

Shawn

Shawn Steele
Webmaster
Great American Beer Festival      (303) 447-0816 x 118   (voice)
736 Pearl Street                  (303) 447-2825         (fax)
PO Box 1679                       shawn at aob.org          (e-mail)
Boulder, CO  80306-1679           info at aob.org           (aob info)
U.S.A.                            http://www.aob.org/aob (web)

This information is subject to change.  Great American Beer Festival is
a registered trademark and GABF is a registered service mark of Brewing
Matters.

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:08:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Kirby <mkirby at isnet.is.wfu.edu>
Subject: sanitizers and false bottoms

Some sanitizer questions for the collective:

1). Has anyone tried Betadine (tm) surgical scrub for sanitizing? I 
noticed that the titratable iodine for this is usually 0.75% vs. 1.25% 
for B.T.F. (tm) so one would have to incorporate the appropriate 
correction factor, but the two look and smell a lot alike and come in 
similar containers, as if they were produced at the same facility. It's 
available through veterinary and other sources at a substantially reduced 
price (supposedly). Any experience? 

2). Any info or experience with C-brite? I found this at my local 
homebrew shop. It's supposed to be a NO-RINSE chlorine-based sanitizer. 
Again, any experience?
____________________________
On the issue of false bottoms for 1/2 BBl systems, I've found the 9" 
diameter perforated SS plates work extremely well and are hassle-free. 
The false bottom is smaller than the opening for the lid so you can just 
drop it in (i.e. no hinges or special slots to mess with). 
Run the siphon tube through the center of the false bottom to the center 
of the domed bottom of the keg, leaving about 1/8 to 1/4" of space for the
siphon to pull up the wort, and you'll only lose 10ml or so of wort after 
sparging/boiling (makes a great hop strainer too). The biggest advantage 
I've found with it is the ability to avoid scorching the wort. There's 
enough space between the edge of the false bottom and the side of the keg 
to allow me to stir while heating, thereby keeping things circulating and 
heating evenly. Seems to me this would be tough to avoid if you're 
heating over a burner in a system with a false bottom that completely 
covers the bottom. Of course, YMMV. At any rate, I referenced Martin 
Manning's excellent article in Brewing Techniques last year when I was 
putting my system together. Highly recommended!!

Todd K.

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 10:11:20 PDT
From: Jeffrey B. Bonner <t3345 at fel1.nfuel.com>
Subject: cornelious (sp?) fitting

When I first started kegging I purchased 2 coke type kegs and an old '56 
refrigerator from a local homebrewer that was going into the Army.  I found
kegging to be SO fast and easy I kicked myself for not doing it sooner (this
is similar to the all grain experience...just do it!!!!).  Anyway, I like it
so much I bought 4 more kegs.  As it turned out they were the pepsi style.

Now the question:

Is it possible to put pepsi style fittings on coke kegs or are the diameters
different?  I know for example that my two coke keg fittings are not inter-
changeable whereas all my pepsi kegs are.  Any ideas.  I would like to use those
coke kegs if at all possible.  Thanks in advance.  Private email is o.k. 
If I get varying answers I will post two or three of them.
- --
Jeffrey B. Bonner 
Office: (509)375-8741 
Fax:    (509)375-8006/8402
email: jbb at fred.nfuel.com (work)
       nukebrewer at aol.com (home)
       jbbonner at comtch.iea.com (home)
       
Current Project: KS1 Spent Fuel Pool Criticality Analysis  

It often shows a fine command of language to say nothing.

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Date:         Mon, 25 Sep 95 12:42:15 CDT
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Transplanting Hops


Well, it is fall here in Chicago and the hop harvest has come and gone.

I am now faced with the necessity of removing my hop plants from the ground
since I'm moving.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to transplant hops this late in the
season?  I have spent three years working on these plants and I would hate
to dig them up and end up killing them.

Thanks!

 -Paul

Paul Sovcik      PJS at uic.edu      University of Illinois at Chicago
                                  College of Pharmacy

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:57:42 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Disturbing E-mail.


Hello, I recently recieved a piece of very disturbing, unsolicited e-mail.  
It was racist propoganda, and the sender information was forged.  I manage
to recover some of the headers, and it appears to have originated at 
astro.u-strasbg.fr or cdsxba.u-strasbg.fr.  I am on several mailing lists, and
I am writing each one asking if anyone else has received this mailing, or
recognizes those addresses, or has other information for me.  Please respond 
by PRIVATE e-mail to me.  Thanks for your time, and sorry about the bandwidth.

 -Russell Mast

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 15:19:59 EDT
From: hadleyse at pweh.com
Subject: Illegal Homebrewing

I was surprised to find out recently that homebrewing is not legal
throughout the U.S.  I thought that a law had passed under President
Carter that legalized it.  Does anyone know what states homebrewing is
considered illegal and why it hasn't been legalized?

Thanks in advance.

Scott Hadley

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 15:22:58 -0500
From: kit.anderson at acornbbs.com
Subject: Lactic acid in wit bee


                              

I just had a wit beer win 2nd runner up best of show. The judges 
commented that the lactic sourness tasted like it was added 
artificially. Well... it was. The pH of the finished beer was 4.8 and 
it definitely lack tartness. I usually adjust down to 4.2 with C&B 
acid blend. Is there another acid I could be using to avoid the 
roughness? Malic, perhaps? What do other brewers do to lower the pH? 
Pediococcus takes too long. This was judged 9 days after brewing.

Here's the recipe for those interested:

Kit's Wit
- ---------
6 gallons

2.5 lb Ireks lager malt
2 lb Hugh-Baird pale malt
 .5 lb Breiss vienna
3 lb wheat malt
1 lb flaked wheat
 .75 oz H. Hallertau 4.2% at 60 min
 .5 oz H. Hallertau at 20 min
1/2 tsp ground coriander in secondary
1/2 tsp dried orange peel in secondary
500 ml Brewtek Belgian Wheat yeast

RIMS system
Protein rest 132F 20 minutes
Conversion rest 152F for 40 min
Mash out 168F
Sparge water adjusted to 5.2 pH with C&B acid blend
Aerated 1 hour
Ferment 7 days at 68F. Kegged and pressurized.
Adjust final pH to 4.2 with C&B acid blend.

OG 1048
FG 1009

Kit "Travels With Chiles" Anderson
Bath, Maine
<kit.anderson at acornbbs.com>
*

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:08:46 -0700
From: bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: pub talk

>From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>Subject: More pubs/yeasts
>
>Thomas writes about mega marketing:
>
><This study clearly proved that people buy what they are
><told to buy, only the names and market segments change.  The beer doesn't
><matter.
>
>I wouldnt want to make any investment decisions based on this market 
>study!  The fact of the matter in the micro/craft segment is that beer
>*does* matter.  And its going to matter even more as the inevitable 
>shakedown in the industry hits.  Consumers are going to get more educated
>and have more choices and this will be good news to the best craft brewers
>and the not so good will fall by the wayside.  Sierra Nevada is enormously
>successful for many reasons, but consistent high quality beers are the
>first reason. 
>
It seems to me that you can't run a business by counting on the ignorance
of your consumers.  Unless you're talking about a large scale operation,
marketing may get people in the door, but quality (beer and food) is the 
only thing that will keep them coming back.  And as Jim mentioned
regarding lager breweries, capital would seem to be a good indicator of
future success.

In the Bay Area (which may be a unique part of the country in this
respect), there is a definite popularity of getting fresh vegetables delivered
to your door; farmer's markets are expanding like crazy, fruits and
veggies which are in season are big; backyard herb gardens are a status
symbol;  freshly roasted coffee from the local cafe is big; local bakers offer
a big variety of freshly baked loaves.  And of course fresh, quality beer
is popular and growing.  These trends seem to be only expanding
in the future, as the success of Starbucks, Red Hook etc. illustrates.  
The majority may not buy into all this (just like Red Hook will never 
threaten A-B), but a significant market is there.

                                                - Bryan
                                                  bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:58:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: RIMS spray ball?

Hey All,

Harlan brought up a question about garden-variety sprinklers to reintroduce 
heated mash liquor to the mash/lauter-tun in a RIMS.  I've been wondering 
about this also.  On a recent tour of Bell's, I was told that their 
mash/lauter-tun has a spray ball valve in the top for even distribution of 
recirulated runnings.  I asked (in horror!) about (you knew it was coming...) 
HSA and the guide said that the spray ball is above the liquid surface of the 
mash and they still don't have any trouble with oxidation.  

It seems as if I merely think about oxygen and I get oxidation, so why the 
discrepancy here?  If the spray ball valve above the liquid surface is OK, 
could I find and use one for my 1/2 bbl RIMS (under construction)?  I would 
also be interested in hearing about other methods of recirulation with 
minimal grainbed disturbance.  Would a small spray valve like you find on a 
hand-pumped herbicide-type sprayer be too constrictive even on the "out" 
side of the pump?  Questions, questions......
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a related matter...
My question regarding addition of dark-roasted malts to the lauter-tun AFTER 
manual recirculation was completely ignored.  Experimentation was my only 
alternative!  I added 3/4 lb Briess chocolate malt and 1/4 lb Briess black 
patent malt to the top of the grainbed after the runnings had clarified 
and then I sparged right through the dark malt.  The technique resulted in 
very good color and flavor extraction, but the I think the roasted malt nose 
may have suffered just a bit. The brown porter showed no signs of oxidation 
going into the secondary and has a very nice nutty-roasted flavor and dark 
brown color.  My hopes are high that I may have finally found a way to prevent 
HSA when using dark malts with my "Crap-ap" lauter-tun.  (Recipe available upon 
request.)  

Brew on,

Bones

*=============================================================================*
| Timothy P. Laatsch            | email:     laatsch at kbs.msu.edu | Aspiring   |
| Graduate Student-Microbiology | biz phone: 616-671-2329        | All-Grain  |
| Michigan State University/KBS | fax:       616-671-2104        | Homebrewer |
| Kalamazoo, MI                 | obsession: Pale Ale            | & Scientist|
*=============================================================================*

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Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Re: sanitizing caps /free yeast slurry /rushing the growler

Doug Flagg <dflagg at agate.net> says he doesn't bother sanitizing his caps:

I'm not surprised that you haven't had any problems.  I have no hydrometer
flask, so I use a small vase.  It's pretty large as hydrometer flasks go,
so I have to add about 12-14 oz of beer to get a reading.  On my last 5-6
batches,
I've been bottling the beer from the flask with no sanitation.  On the last
batch, I even tasted the beer from the flask before bottling it.  Guess what?
None of the 5-6 bottles has had any detectable spoilage, and I let them age
unually about 2 months.  I didn't sanitize the bottle, the corn sugar, the
caps, nothing.  It was clean, but not sanitized.  (I'm always expecting these
to blow--I open them with oven mitts on and store them in a metal can.)

Of course, YMMV, but IMO it's worth tempting fate with ONE bottle per batch.
I would just drink it flat otherwise, since I'm kegging.  Of course it's well
known that there's a lot less risk that this point, but still a potential
for infection. I'm not arguing against sanitation, just relaying a data point.

- ------------------------------
>The brewer from my favorite brewpub has graciously agreed to give me a
>container of slurry for use in my homebrewing efforts.  My question is, how
>much of this slurry should I use for a 5 gallon batch?  1 cup?  1/2 cup?  2
>cups?  I'm assuming I'll also need to make a starter before pitching.  Anyone
>have any experience in this area?

Oh, no, don't make a starter!  Just get about a quart of slurry.  Yippee!

- ------------------------------
>to go in buckets.  It was common practice for a father to send his
>young son down to the corner tavern to get a bucket of suds.

How times have changed.  If you did that today, he'd better be 21 or you'd
probably be arrested for child abuse.  Maybe it was "rushing" because you'd
have to get home in a hurry or it'd be flat.




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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 18:00:22 -0400 (CDT)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Conversion Temps/Nukie Brown


> > From: Chris Barnhart <cbarnhar at ria-emh2.army.mil>
> > Subject:  RE: Extract Efficiency
> 
> > This got me to thinking (Good thing :')).  Isn't extract efficiency 
> > a measure of how completely you convert the mash from starchs to
> > sugars (both complex and simple)?  Within limits the temperature is
> > irrelevant to EE.  Wouldn't temperature's primary effect be the 
> > speed at which the converson takes place (as long as you don't
> > denature the amylases stopping conversion completely).  I would 
> > assume that temperature primarily influences the fermentability 
> > of the wort.  Thoughts?
> 
> I'm under the impressoin that EE also takes into account how much of those
> sugars you get out of the mash into the brew kettle.  I'm not sure how 
> temperature would affect this, either.

One important factor required for good conversion (reasonable EE) is to
insure the mash reaches gelatinization temperature.  I think it is 149F
for barley malt.  Gelatinization must occur to expose starch particles
to enzymes in the mash. It follows that mash temperatures must also
spend a finite time - depending on your malt - above gelatinization temps
to convert the majority of starches.

I also seem to remember that a higher weight of sugar is obtained
from a given weight of starch when simple sugars are made as opposed to
dextrins.  I don't have Principles... or M&B Science handy, but doesn't
the process of hydrolysis of starch consume water, thus adding to the
weight of sugar produced.  Can anyone verify this?

_____


 CLAY at prism.clemson.edu writes:

> Subject: Newcastle Brown Ale
> Recipe?  Source of the distinctive flavor?  Thanks in advance?

I noticed a pronounced estery flavor when I have had NBA in the past.
If you want to make esters, I'd suggest fermenting your beer at higher
gravity and then diluting with boiled, cooled water prior to packaging.
Higher temperature fermentation (75F+) and certain yeasts also produce
higher levels of esters. I'd suggest a recipe similar to Papazian's
for NBA:

2.5oz. Chocolate malt
2.5oz. Roasted Barley
1# 40-80L Crystal malt
5# DME (M&F, not a dextrinous one like Laaglander) or 8# pale malt

If you all grain, I'd mash low: NBA is moderately dry.

25 total bittering units (that's about 6 AAUs in a 1.050 boil)

Finishing hops optional - I'd use 1 oz. or less

Wyeast 1007 (my choice)

Cheers,
Rob Reed

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 22:30:19 PDT
From: NAFRANK at pop03.ca.us.ibm.net (Nicholas A. Franke)
Subject: Juicing Apples for Cider

	I got the bug to make cider this year.  So I tried in 
vain to juice several bushels of apples with a wine press my 
girlfriend bought me for my birthday.  I tried cutting the 
apples into very small pieces.  I tried putting a long bar on 
the handle of the press for leverage.  I tried a bigger press at 
our local homebrew shop.  Nothing worked.
	My last resort was that I was going to buy a food 
processor to chop the apples into little bits, and then try 
pressing them again.  I had to do something, because I had seven 
bushels of apples and pears sitting in my Southern California 
garage, which were getting quite ripe.
	While I was searching for a food processor ($150-350), I 
came across a product I had seen on late night infomercials--Mr. 
Juiceman.  I bought Mr. Juiceman for $79.99 (reg. price) at 
Target (usual disclaimers: I have no personal pecuniary interest 
in either Mr. Juiceman, Mrs. Juiceman or Target stores).  This 
juicer worked great.
	It took me about 10 working hours over three days to put 
seven bushels of fruit through this juicer, but the results were 
worth it.  I got between 2 and 2.5 gallons of juice per bushel 
of fruit, which I understand is about the best yield you can get 
from a home pressing.
	The apple juice came out with a lot of froth in it, 
which was caused by pulp in the juice.  I let this juice sit in 
a carboy for about an hour and all the juice went to the bottom 
and the crud to the top.  I siphoned the fairly clear juice from 
the bottom of the carboy into the fermenter.
	The pear juice came out more the consistency of apple 
sauce.  The pulp did not separate from the juice with the pears. 
I took the thick juice and the chopped up fruit "waste" and put 
it in my lauter tun (with a copper manifold collection system) 
overnight.  In the morning, all the clear juice had run out of 
the tun leaving the pulp and fruit waste in the tun.
	I can't imagine trying to juice fruit for cider again 
without this juicer.  It would have been impossible to do the 
same job with the wine press.


				NAF.
				nafrank at ibm.net


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:52:31 -0700
From: rownby at televar.com (Ray Ownby)
Subject: Thanks/New Beers

Wanted to thank everyone for the responses re: adding oak chips to your IPA.
If you replied privately and I didn't respond; sorry, some of my mail got
deleted by accident.  

But on with the show;  2 weeks ago I was fortunate enough to attend a
wedding in Woodinville, WA.  Well, Lo and Behold, the Redhook Brewery was
less than half a mile from the reception.  Haven't seen anyone comment on
their new offerings; may be that they're still only available locally.
Redhook Rye and Double Black (made with Starbuck's coffee).  I can't
elaborate on taste profiles yada yada yada, but I can say both of these were
a damn fine beer.  And if that weren't enough, the next weekend (last
weekend), I went salmon fishing on the Skagit river, and hey, The Skagit
River Brewery was again less than a mile from where I was staying.  I must
say the place was not too busy on the night I was there, and it was getting
late, but the guys running the place that night were more than happy to give
us a tour after they found out several in our party were homebrewers.  Kind
of a small operation, but they're also putting out some pretty good beers.
If you get a chance, give some a try. 

And not to brag, (well, maybe a little bit), this weekend I'll be visiting
the Leavenworth Brewery and quaffing some of their award winning Blind Pig
Dunkelweizen.  Man, sometimes it's tough living in Washington.  Just wish
some of these were closer than 2 hours away for me.  Yea, it's tough, but
I'll be OK.
 -Ray-
"Aye, aye, Bessy, never brew wi' bad malt upo' Michaelmas day, else you'll
have a poor tap."
     -Mr. Tulliver                             From "The Mill on the Floss"
                                                       by George Eliot

rownby at televar.com

 -Ray Ownby-
  Moses Lake, WA


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1841, 09/26/95