HOMEBREW Digest #1847 Tue 03 October 1995
Digest #1846
Digest #1848
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
pictures of beer glasses (Wolfgang Wedel)
re:Homebrew Digest #1846 (October 02, 1995) (CPL MAINS, ADMIN CLERK, DSN 484-8135, ACID CAG107)
the old stalled fermentation (Neal Parker)
Dry Spicing (Scott Bukofsky)
Drinking & Driving ("Douglas Rasor")
Routing test (PgDn - Sorry) ("Glen R. Geisen")
Saranac Fall Fest '95 Competition Results (Scott Barrett)
Hot Water Heater (#1845 McCarthy) (Michael Genito)
Evil bungs on pre-filled mini-kegs (Paul W Placeway)
partial-mash (Allen Greene)
Honey: clover or orange blossum? (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
Candling Beers. (Russell Mast)
RE: Drinking/Driving/55 ("Olson, Greger J - CIV/911-2")
SIPA (Sour India Pale Ale) ("Craig Rode")
dryhopping (charles epp)
Pictures of beer glasses (Mark Ream)
Subject: Re: Brewing/Drinking Age (Mark Ream)
Recipes (MAURAPAT)
Extract Numbers & Conversion (yet again) (Rob Lauriston)
Laws, Age, etc. (Russell Mast)
JOCKEY BOXES (rbarnes)
Re: Brewing/Drinking Age (John DeCarlo )
Brass/Plastic/...and I know my beer is ruined, but... (Ray Robert)
Modifying the grind on a Corona mill ("Philip G. Leith")
Age Old Brewing (krkoupa)
Infusion (Norman C. Pyle)
60-70: Nice mnemonic, but... (Ken Willing)
RIMS != Decoction/Infusion/boiling hops in water (Algis R Korzonas)
Hydrometer (Sascha Kaplan)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 04:14:35 -0500
From: Mark Ream <ream at seldon.terminus.com>
- -- [ From: Mark Ream * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
I have enjoyed reading these notes since I have subscribed to the Digest and
tonight I feel that it is time to jump in with both feet. It is not my
intent to make anyone angry, but I am sure I will. So please bear with me.
Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> writes:
>As long as you drink, or drive, or both on your own private
>property, I see no objections.
Pierre, I take it you have not yet had an accident on your private property
because of your drinking. I will make the assumption you haven't run anyone
over yet or crashed into a tree because it looked like two trees and you
thought you would drive in between them.
"But it is only me", you say, "and the law should stay out."
Well, the law will stay out if no one ever knows about it, but are you not
going to seek medical attention?? I have been to too many alcohol related
traffic accidents to believe that there can be any kind of responsible
drinking and driving. If you're going to drink, no matter what your age,
PLEASE don't drive.
Mark Ream - ream at terminus.com
Date: 30 Sep 95 17:32:27 +0100
From: faros at ping.at (Wolfgang Wedel)
Subject: pictures of beer glasses
I am looking for pictures of different beer glasses. Could someone please
tell me where I can ftp some?
Thank you very much
Wolfgang
________________________________________________________________
Wolfgang L. Wedel faros at ping.at
Vienna/Austria Fido: 2:310/78.8
Wolfgang,
Perhaps Direct Image can help or try Stanford University at ftp.stanford.
edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/images. These two provide pictures of labels.
For a sample of glasses try "http://netplaza.com/plaza/boarshead.html" -
Boars Head Pub Supply - Dedicated to bringing the best of the Pubs of
England and Ireland.
Direct Image has completed its website and is now looking for your comments
and suggestions. Direct Image is bringing Custom Full Color Short Labels for
the Homebrewer to the net. View our selection and make your choice of any of
the labels posted on our site. Direct Image will modify any label to meet
your requirements and copyright law and print your labels on pre-gummed
laser labels. Please visit our site and let us know what you think. WARNING:
It is graphically intensive and may cause beer to foam.
http://www.robust.com/direct/labels_1.html
- --
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mark Ream Fax: 805 686-9587
Direct Image Phone: 805 686-9376
P.O. Box 398 Toll Free: 800 395-1199
272 E. Hwy 246 E-Mail: ream at terminus.com
Buellton, Ca. 93427 http://www.robust.com/direct
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 7:17:19 EDT
From: <CPL=KENNETH=L=MAINS%G1%II=MEF at mqg-smtp3.usmc.mil> (CPL MAINS, ADMIN CLERK, DSN 484-8135, ACID CAG107)
Subject: re:Homebrew Digest #1846 (October 02, 1995)
Good Morning Lady and Gents,
just alittle correction before anything else is said about the drinking
age is slandered. Ffirst unless the law has changed in the last two
months, Louisiana drinking age is still eighteen, that I am sure of. Next
of all I believe the drinking age should be twenty one with one exception,
the military. Not that military peolple should be regerded as better then
anyone else but if your old enough to die in combat for your country you
should be old enough to drink a beer legally! And this is in know means a
bias opinion just because I am a U. S. Marine. I think alot of people will
agree!
Let me know your thoughts
Thanks
Cpl K.L. Mains
US Marines
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 08:02:25 EDT
From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker)
Subject: the old stalled fermentation
The old problem:
A number of beers I've brewed in the last while start off quickly (6 hours
from pitching), foam up well and then stop short at 1.025, 1.022, etc. and never
really move from these S.G.s (or take 2 weeks to do it).
I brew extracts with dry or liquid yeast, boil everything, cool the wort,
let sit, rack off the trub, shake the bejesus out of the carboy (for 5 min)
and then pitch. The thing is - this problem is new to me
and might coincide with me doing full boils. I'm tired of having to
worry about it - how do I prevent these incomplete ferments? Aerate more?
Could there be a problem with leaving too much trub behind? I allready
pitch from a 750ml starter - go to a 1.5l starter? Go back to open ferments
(I use a carboy for the primary now)?
I have to get over this problem before I put all the effort into full grain.
TIA :)
Neal Parker nparker at lockheed.on.ca
Lockheed Martin Canada
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:21:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Bukofsky <scott.bukofsky at yale.edu>
Subject: Dry Spicing
I'm going to make a Holiday ale for the upcoming season, and was
considering trying "dry-spicing" in the secondary to get more spice
character. Has anyone done this successfully? Are there contamination
problems to be considered? Also, I'd be interested in hearing about
spice amounts/mixtures that worked particularly well.
Thanks,
Scott Bukofsky
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 09:43:06 EST
From: "Douglas Rasor" <drasor at HOFFMAN-ISSAA2.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Drinking & Driving
I just had to put my two cents worth in on this particular subject.
Gary wrote that we should all obey the speed limits, that no one
should smoke because it has killed millions, etc, etc. On obeying the
posted speed limit: 1. I normally, on the interstates, drive at
least 10 miles over the posted speed limit. Why, because it is
decidely safer. A vast majority of people on the rode drive at least
10 mile over the limit and those of you who do not follow this rule
and drive in the left or center lane at or below the limit are
creating a traffic hazard by not going with the flow of traffic. In
case you did not know, if an accident occurs because you were not
going with the flow, you can be held liable and charged. I do believe
it is not that the Federal Governement has no write imposing rules
regulation, etc that involve things the states are better able to deal
with, speed limits for one. In the western states there are long
hauls between towns and a faster limit makes sense. 2. As for the
smoking and millions of death comment, I do not smoke, if a
reasonable, responsible adult wishes to suck on a cancer stick, then
it is his perogative. Who am I to impose my personnal bias, however,
the individual should not intrude on my right to not breath in his
toxins. 3. On the legal drinking age, I again believe the Federal
Government has no right to impose rules on the state. I do believe
that laws should be imposed that, if an individual is picked up DWI or
found DWI by an officer, that that individual should be dealt with
quickly and severly and that if the age is to be 18 then the
individual who sells or purchases for an underage people they should
also be dealt with harshly, go to jail, lose their license etc. Oh,
and the license thing. It is not a right, it is a priviledge, be sure
and make the distinction between the two.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:56:51 -0400
From: "Glen R. Geisen" <glen at picard.al.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Routing test (PgDn - Sorry)
I have been unable to send mail directly to the HBD server, so I am trying a
forwarding address on another machine. Sorry for the test, but I'd really like
to participate when I have something of interest.
- --
// Glen R. Geisen glen at picard.al.wpafb.af.mil
// Software Engineer +1.513.429.1466 x117
// Sytronics, Inc. +1.513.255.0860 (WPAFB)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:27:35 -0500
From: scott at partech.com (Scott Barrett)
Subject: Saranac Fall Fest '95 Competition Results
Here are the results of the 1995 Saranac Fall Fest Homebrew Competition,
held on September 23rd, and co-sponsored by the Mohawk Valley Friends of
Beer and F.X. Matt Brewery in Utica New York. There were 130 entries in
sixteen categories and four special "Most Like Saranac..." awards. The
Best of Show and "Most Like Saranac..." winners received handsome Saranac
canoe paddles. A hearty thanks to all the great New York state homebrewers
who helped us raise almost $600 for the United Way through the competition.
American Ales
1 Jim Taylor Hudson Valley Homebrewers Sierra Madre Pale Ale
2 Manny Holl Hudson Valley Homebrewers California Common
3 Pat Coppola Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Warrior Wheat
English Pale Ales
1 Phil Milano MUGGZ Toasted Amber
2 Lee Turner Salt City Brew Club Toasted Pale Ale
3 Phil Milano MUGGZ IPA
Brown Ales
1 Pat Coppola Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Bluegill Brown Ale
2 Rick Rucigay Saratoga Thoroughbrews Sand Hill Brown
3 Jim Taylor Hudson Valley Homebrewers Mild Brown
Porters
1 Thomas Duchesneau Albany Barley Converters Irish Porter
2 John Thibodeau Albany Barley Converters Yellow Shark Porter
3 Mike Zielinski Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Stagecoach Porter
Stouts
1 Jeanne Galvin Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Irish Stout
2 Phil Milano MUGGZ Imperial Stout
3 Nate Praskey New York Notorious Brewers Imperial Stout
Strong Ales
1 Roger Haggett Broome County Fermenters Old Possum Barley Wine
2 Ron Maliwacki Borderline Yeast Infectors Winter's Dream
3 Dennis Everett Salt City Brew Club Pale Ale
Belgian & French Ales
1 Glen Allen New York Notorious Brewers Andrea's Facetious Wit
2 John Diana MUGGZ Belgian Tripel
3 Paul Krebs Saratoga Thoroughbrews Monkshine Dubbel
Miscellaneous Ales
1 Jim Taylor Hudson Valley Homebrewers Action Alt
2 Anthony Becampis Hudson Valley Homebrewers Dutchess Pilz
3 Adrienne Knight MUGGZ Buckland Bitter Ale
Light Lagers
1 Richard Loud Saratoga Thoroughbrews Tailgate Party Pils
2 Manny Holl Hudson Valley Homebrewers Dortmunder Export
3 Bruce Franconi Hudson Valley Homebrewers Classic Pilsner
Dark & Amber Lagers
1 Rich Mueller Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Brother Paul's Dark
2 Chuck Lutz New York Notorious Brewers Fall Fest '95
3 Timothy Collins Brewbonic Plague Marzenfest
Bocks
1 Manny Holl Hudson Valley Homebrewers Traditional Bock
2 Francois Espourteille Saratoga Thoroughbrews Meditator
3 Not awarded
Wheat Beers
1 Peter Garofalo Salt City Brew Club Spring Weizen
2 Richard Loud Saratoga Thoroughbrews Weizenbock
3 Bob Talkiewicz Borderline Yeast Infectors Hurry Up and Wheat
Fruit & Herb Beers
1 Robert Webber No Pits
2 Mike Maimone Very Berry Ale
3 Shawn & Joseph Bosch Brew-52s Einstein's Blueberry
Porter
Specialty Beers
1 Patrick Bigelow North Yeast Homebrew Club Pumpkin Ale
2 Francois Espourteille Saratoga Thoroughbrews Mortibus
3 Mark Cotch MUGGZ Coffee Porter
Mead
1 Brian O'Malley Sultans of Swig New England Cyser B1
2 Scott Barrett Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Still Mead '94
3 Patrick Bigelow North Yeast Homebrew Club Ginger Mead
Cider
1 Brian O'Malley Sultans of Swig Harvest Moon Cider
2 Dennis Everett Salt City Brew Club Straight Cider
3 Brian O'Malley Sultans of Swig Circum Cyser
Best of Show
1 Thomas Duchesneau Albany Barley Converters Irish Porter
2 Peter Garofalo Salt City Brew Club Spring Weizen
3 Robert Weber No Pits
Most Like Saranac Golden
Anthony Becampis Hudson Valley Homebrewers Homebrew Day Wheat
Most Like Saranac Pale Ale
Francois Espourteille Saratoga Thoroughbrews Fall IPA
Most Like Saranac Black & Tan
Mike Zielinski Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Stagecoach Porter
Most Like Saranac Stout
Ray Adams Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer Old Erie Canal
Imperial Stout
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:36:40 -0400
From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael Genito)
Subject: Hot Water Heater (#1845 McCarthy)
In #1845, Gary McCarthy responded to Paul Slovik:
>Subject: Re: Natural Gas Burners
>Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU> asked in HBD 1844:
>my new house has a nifty heated garage (a nice touch for Chicago winters...)
> that uses natural gas as a heating source.
>what type of burner can I use for this setup?
>I have the same setup in my garage here in Salt Lake City.
>I've been thinking about getting a plain olde house water heater, and hooking
>it up. The burner should be able to heat the water inside within 30 min or so
>right? The capacity would be like 30 gal before cutting the top off, right?
Gary, my experience with hot water heaters is that they are a glass tank
covered with insulation which is then covered with a steel jacket. Unless
you have a type different than from what Ive seen, it would be next to
impossible, if not expensive, to cut the standard gas water heater in half.
Further, although you can heat water to scalding temps, boiling temps might
be a problem even if the top is removed, i.e., I am not sure the insulation
and steel jacket on most is constructed to work with temps in excess of 212F
for an hour or more. I assume you're talking about boiling (not mashing)
since you mention cutting it in half (open top).
Michael A. Genito, Director of Finance, Town of Ramapo
237 Route 59, Suffern, NY 10901
TEL: 914-357-5100 x214 FAX: 914-357-7209
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 10:37:57 -0400
From: Paul W Placeway <Paul_W_Placeway at LOAN4.SP.CS.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Evil bungs on pre-filled mini-kegs
I've just stared using mini-kegs to brew into, and needed to collect a
few of the things to actually use. So I had the choice between buying
empty ones at a store for $7.50, or full of beer for $12. Not a tough
choice.
One of the local beer stores got in some minis of Algonquin Country
Lager, which seemed like the right thing for a party this past
weekend. (I can't recommend Algonquin Lager -- it's short on body and
character.)
When I went to un-bung the can to clean it out, I had an awful
discovery: they used an evil difficult-to-remove composite plastic and
rubber outer bung. I had to cut the darn thing apart, and will have to
urethane over the scratches I put on the top before I can re-use the
can.
So, if you are in the store considering buying a nice mini that
happens to already contain some beer, try to gently lift an edge of
the rubber part of the bung. If it bends up fairly easily, you've
probably okay. If it won't bend up despite reasonable force, it's
likely to be an awful composite bung; try another brand.
--Paul Placeway
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:39:35 -0600
From: GREENEA at PLUTO.hitchcock.org (Allen Greene)
Subject: partial-mash
Hello all!
I was hoping someone could point me in the direction of a
partial-mash faq. I've checked out all the sites on the net
that I know of without success. thanks
allen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allen Greene (603)695-1340 Matthew Thornton Health Plan
Network Administrator Bedford, NH
http://130.189.66.59/HOME.HTM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 10:48:19 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: Honey: clover or orange blossum?
Fellow Homebrewers,
I read once that using clover honey will result in "grassy" flavors.
That source (forgot who/where) suggested using orange blossom honey
instead. I'm getting ready to make a barleywine that will have allot
of honey in it - any thoughts pro or con on clover vs orange blossom
(or any other variety)?
"reeb!"
-Tim
Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
74247.551 at compuserve.com _or_ timfields at aol.com (weekends)
timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:49:55 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Candling Beers.
Rob Lauriston and Spencer Thomas both wrote me about the candling question.
(Shining a flashlight through your beer to see how it's doing.) They have
convinced me that it's nothing to worry about. The light from a flashlight
is not terribly bright, not very strong around 520 nm (a greenish light)
which is the active range for "skunking", and doesn't shine through a large
volume of the beer at one time like sunlight or other diffuse light would.
By my estimation, it would take several hours or days of direct flashilight
exposure to significantly skunk a beer. So, if you use a glass carboy, spend
a couple minutes every week or so peering through it with a flashlight.
It's fun. And talk to your yeast, just like talking to your plants, it really
helps. (Maybe not, but it does help remind your loved ones how weird you are,
and reminds them to cut you some slack once in awhile...)
-R
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 08:06:00 PDT
From: "Olson, Greger J - CIV/911-2" <gjolson at bpa.gov>
Subject: RE: Drinking/Driving/55
Gary McCarthy wrote:
>There is plenty of evidence to show that 55 is much safer than 65...
It is not safer to DRIVE 55 than 65, it is safer to CRASH at 55 than 65.
;-)
More seriously, let's stick to brew threads and avoid spending bandwidth on
philosophical discussions on law/society/social
contracts/libertarianism/etc.
Solo II anyone? :-)
Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Oct 1995 10:07:05 -0600
From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode at sdrc.com>
Subject: SIPA (Sour India Pale Ale)
Greetings!
I have been reading your posts for a couple of weeks. Great information! I
have been homebrewing for a few years, using extracts. Have considered moving
into all grain, but not yet made the leap. The info here certainly helps.
Perhaps one of you could help me with something that worries me about my last
batch:
India Pale Ale attempt:
8 lbs Alexanders Pale malt extract
1 1/2 lbs crystal
1/2 lbs toasted malt
2 oz northern brewers at 9.6%
1 oz casade at 4.6 (flavor)
1 oz cascade at 4.6 (aroma)
Brought crystal and toasted to a boil in 1 1/2 gallons water, removed grains,
added extract, brought to boil, tossed in bittering hops, boiled for 50
minutes, added 1 oz cascade, boiled for 9 more minutes, tossed in 1 oz
cascade, boiled one more minute, threw in carboy on top of 2 gallons cold
water, filled to 5 gallons, added yeastlab A04 liquid yeast (started the day
before) primary 5 days, racked to secondary, secondary 6 days. Bottled.
The problem...when bottling, I took a little taste (admit it, we all do it).
I detected a weird taste. Could be banana/sour esters? Am I worrying too
much? is this normal with this much malt and hops? Should I just go out and
buy a six-pack of Grant's IPA and dump the batch? Any obvious screw-ups?
Also, should I increase the amount of water I boil the malt with? I have kept
it a low volume so that when I added it to the water, it would be cool enough
to pitch the yeast right away. Do I get better results using more water for a
more robust boil, then staying up later waiting for temp to drop?
Thanks.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:06:52 -0500 (EST)
From: charles epp <cepp at indiana.edu>
Subject: dryhopping
Query: how does one get dry-hopped pellets to settle in the secondary?
It's been a couple of years since I last dry-hopped, and my brewing notes
from then indicate no problems with settling. I dry-hopped a batch a
week ago, however, and some of the hops are suspended about a half-inch
below the surface of the beer. Do I just wait? Does poly-clar take hops
out of suspension? Thanks for any reply. Chuck CEPP at indiana.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 11:33:11 -0500
From: Mark Ream <ream at seldon.terminus.com>
Subject: Pictures of beer glasses
- -- [ From: Mark Ream * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Date: 30 Sep 95 17:32:27 +0100
From: faros at ping.at (Wolfgang Wedel)
Subject: pictures of beer glasses
I am looking for pictures of different beer glasses. Could someone please
tell me where I can ftp some?
Thank you very much
Wolfgang
________________________________________________________________
Wolfgang L. Wedel faros at ping.at
Vienna/Austria Fido: 2:310/78.8
Wolfgang,
Perhaps Direct Image ( http://www.robust.com/direct/labels_1.html )can help
with its label collection or try Stanford University at ftp.stanford.
edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/images. These two provide pictures of labels.
For a sample of glasses try "http://netplaza.com/plaza/boarshead.html" -
Boars Head Pub Supply - Dedicated to bringing the best of the Pubs of
England and Ireland.
Mark
- --
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mark Ream Fax: 805 686-9587
Direct Image Phone: 805 686-9376
P.O. Box 398 Toll Free: 800 395-1199
272 E. Hwy 246 E-Mail: ream at terminus.com
Buellton, Ca. 93427 http://www.robust.com/direct
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 11:33:14 -0500
From: Mark Ream <ream at seldon.terminus.com>
Subject: Subject: Re: Brewing/Drinking Age
- -- [ From: Mark Ream * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
I have enjoyed reading these notes since I have subscribed to the Digest and
tonight I feel that it is time to jump in with both feet. It is not my
intent to make anyone angry, but this is a subject I have strong opinions on
.
Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> writes:
>As long as you drink, or drive, or both on your own private
>property, I see no objections.
Pierre, accidents happen even on private property because of drinking. I
make the assumption you or someone you care for hasn't crashed into a tree
because it looked like two trees and they thought they would drive in
between them.
"But it is only me", you say, "and the law should stay out."
Well, the law will stay out if no one ever knows about it, but are you not
going to seek medical attention for them?? I have been to too many alcohol
related traffic accidents to believe that there can be any kind of
responsible drinking and driving. If you're going to drink, no matter what
your age, PLEASE don't drive.
Mark Ream - ream at terminus.com
- --
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mark Ream Fax: 805 686-9587
Direct Image Phone: 805 686-9376
P.O. Box 398 Toll Free: 800 395-1199
272 E. Hwy 246 E-Mail: ream at terminus.com
Buellton, Ca. 93427 http://www.robust.com/direct
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:58:09 -0400
From: MAURAPAT at aol.com
Subject: Recipes
Two of my favorite beers, Geary's Pale Ale and Celis White have become
increasing hard to find in New York. Geary's shows up from time to time at a
couple of the better markets, but Celis has now completly stopped
distributing in New York (thank you Miller Brewing Company!) And so since
they want to make it difficult for me to purchase their beer in the
store--I'll just make it at home!! Does anyone have a good recipe for
Geary's and or Celis? Extract, partial or all-grain?
Thanks in advance.
Beer is our bond
Patrick Higgins (maurapat at aol.com)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 12:03 PDT
From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston)
Subject: Extract Numbers & Conversion (yet again)
Just a follow-up, concurring with Kirk Fleming's reply to Kenny Eddy about
extract figures. flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) in # 1846 re
(KennyEddy at aol.com) in #1843. (Apologies if I'm getting your name wrong.)
When doing a 'Congress mash' in the lab to produce the malt stats and you
are testing a malt which IS diastatic, the sample which you mash contains
only the grain for which you want values. But when you are testing a malt
which is *NOT* diastatic, you use 50% of the malt you are trying to test and
50% of a diastatic pale malt of known characteristics (actually, a pale malt
which has a given set of characteristics). You then take the results and
extrapolate what the contribution of the non-diastatic malt is to the
observed values for extract, colour, etc. These are the numbers which are
reported in the analysis of a non-diastatic malt.
That's why Kenny (?) observes, " I would think that roasting grains would
destroy
> some to all of the starch's conversion capability, yet I see malts like
> chocolate or even black patent listed with extractions not much different
> that pale malts.
If you do a lab mash on sample which contains only non-diastatic malt (or
malt with very little diastatic power) you typically get lower extract
values, sometimes much lower. (This is partly because you have to filter
the mash before taking a gravity, and a non-diastatic mash can be a bit
gooey.) Since these grains aren't used by themselves, the numbers from such
analysis would have no practical meaning. Instead, the numbers are meant to
indicate what the grains will do in a mash with diastatic grain, and so they
are observed and calculated from a mash with diastatic grain. I'm pretty
sure both EBC and ASBC methods do this.
As Kirk says, " I'd like to stress that the 'extract' figures given for
grains of any kind are a measure of one thing and one thing only: the
specific gravity of the solubles in the grain, WHATEVER THEY MAY BE."
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:08:27 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Laws, Age, etc.
> From: gmccarthy at dayna.com (Gary McCarthy)
> I do not think that possession
> and purchasing of homebrewing supplies is regulated(at least as an age issue)
> in any state.
I don't think there are specific laws about it, but I do know that some
homebrew stores do check IDs, and have signs posted that they won't sell to
people under 21. I always assumed this was to avoid some secondary claim of
them "contributing to the delinquency" or something if some local sheriff took
it on themselves to crack down on this or that.
> Gotta disagree with you here, Kenneth. There is plenty of evidence to show
> that 55 is much safer than 65, or 70 in most of the driving situations one
> will encounter. The speed limit laws *ought* to be obeyed.
There is also evidence that, at least on major interstates, the faster drivers
tend to have fewer accidents per mile driven. If you measure accidents per
ticket, or something like that, you get different results. (Think how much
safer these drivers would be if they slowed down a little?) Anyway, this is
not really relevant.
> Let me challenge you Kenneth, today on your way home
> from work, obey all the speed limits. Did it take you any longer to get home?
I'll bet it depends a lot on where Kenneth lives. In Chicago, you get there
faster if you try to drive a little slower. That doesn't work everywhere.
(Also, in Chicago, we have more pothole than road. YMMV, I hope.)
Back to brewing.
-R
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 12:40:50 pst
From: rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us
Subject: JOCKEY BOXES
I am planning to make the move to kegging but have no dedicated
refrigerator for the kegs. I plan to make a jockey box using a small
ice chest (6-pack size) with copper tubing coiled and permanently
mounted inside. To allow the coil to drain (after the keg pressure is
released), the inlet will be near the top of the ice chest and the
outlet near the bottom. The *plan* is to fill the ice chest with water
and freeze the whole thing, coil and all. To chill my beer, I'll hook
the jockey box in-line between the keg and the tap. I'll empty the
beer from the inside of the coil before freezing.
Does anyone see a problem with freezing the coils in a block of ice?
Will the coil break as the ice expands? Will the beer freeze as it
travels through the frozen copper? Any other ideas or suggestions?
TIA,
Randy Barnes, San Diego.
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Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 15:40:24 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Brewing/Drinking Age
While this is interesting so far, I haven't seen anyone specifically spell
out the Federal position. The sections of US law that exempt homebrewers
from paying brewing taxes and related items (commonly referred to as the law
making homebrewing legal), define a homebrewer as someone at least 18 years
old or of legal drinking age in their state, if higher.
So, no matter what the states do, you aren't a legal homebrewer federally
until 18, even if the drinking age in your state becomes 3.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 16:56:00 PDT
From: Ray Robert <rayr at bah.com>
Subject: Brass/Plastic/...and I know my beer is ruined, but...
Had a few questions:
1. Is it all right to use brass in the mash/lauter tun. I have a brass nut
securing the back side of the outlet faucet. The nut is on the inside of
the tun.
2. Can I use CPVC inside the lauter tun. Its rated at 180 degrees. The
guy at Home Depot could not tell me if it was safe for my application but
said it was o.k. for drinking water.
3. Brewed an extract wheat batch using an Edme dry ale yeast. The batch
fermented out abnormally fast (started within 10 minutes of pitching and was
done in two days). Seemed to smell and taste ok at bottling. After being
in the bottle for about a month, it tastes remarkably like a hard cider ,
but with no carbonation. Can I recombine all of this in a bucket, repitch
yeast and sugar and rebottle, or should I relax, don't worry, and drink my
cider-like beer.
Robert
rayr at bah.com
Tampa/St. Pete "Home of the Devil Rays"
"For want of Beer is want of Sense"
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:17:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Philip G. Leith" <ccphil at showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Modifying the grind on a Corona mill
My brother says he saw something that could be done to a corona mill which
would give a more even grind. Something to do with it causing the plates to
stay at a more even distance from each other all the time. He said it was
something pretty simple, like using a file on something.
While most of the Homebrew Digest searches from Spencer's Beer Page
aren't working (at least for HBD's before 1995) I thought I'd see if anyone on
this list remembers.
Phil Leith--------------------->ccphil at showme.missouri.edu
"I bought some used paint... it was in the shape of a house."
- Steven Wright
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 13:36:03 PST
From: krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Age Old Brewing
This legal age to brew thing really has my curiosity, since my 2-year
old son helps with the process. In fact, I can't brew without him
begging to participate (stir, measure, dump in stuff). He thinks it's
his equipment anyway.
The way I see it, on brewing day there isn't anything alcoholic about
it. Just a bunch of organic things in a big ol' bucket of water. A
whole lot like making soup or tea; just different ingredients.
Outside of heat, there's generally little about the brewing process
that can hurt him. He could get hurt a whole lot more helping me work
on the car.
Homebrewing really is a family project. We can make something
together and learn about recipes, ingredients, food preparation,
cleaning, organic and physical chemistry, thermodynamics, fluid
mechanics, mechanical engineering, microbiology, materials science,
economics, and patience. If that doesn't qualify for a
family-oriented educational project, when what does?
Ken Koupal
PS - my son thinks beer tastes yucky. He just likes to brew (use big
pots, make lots of steam, throw stuff in boiling water, connect hoses,
watch the yeast making bubbles, and putting bottle caps on anything
that resembles a bottle. I'll bet you didn't know Barney fits into a
bottle capper, did you?)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 16:02:59 MDT
From: Norman C. Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
Subject: Infusion
Al Korz wrote:
>Now, regarding the name "RIMS," I must throw some cold water. Neither
>Rodney's design nor Keith's proposed modification are (I)nfusion systems.
>Infusion mashing is the heating of the mash with additions of boiling
>water... period, end paragraph.
>
>A lot of books and magazines incorrectly label non-infusion mashing
>procedures
>as infusion mashing, upward-infusion or step-infusion procedures. They are
>simply wrong. There is no consensus on the terminology if you heat the mash
>with the application of heat directly to the tun. I tend to call it
>"temperature-controlled mashing" or "kettle mashing."
The Doubleday Dictionary defines infusion so:
"3. The process of steeping or soaking any substance in a liquid to extract
its properties without boiling."
American Heritage doesn't have "infusion" but defines "infuse" as:
"3. To steep or soak without boiling."
(both references were used without permission - shame on me)
(I've ignored other definitions - these two applied much more directly)
Now it seems to me that the term "infusion mashing" was used to distinguish
from decoction mashing, where the grain is not simply "steeped or soaked", it
is boiled, etc. These definitions do not say anything about stepping up the
temperature by boiling water additions, as Al says. So using these sources,
I could easily claim that (R)ecirculation (I)nfusion (M)ash (S)ystem is
perfectly appropriate, as is "upward infusion", "step infusion", and the like.
Proclaiming all of this as "simply wrong" seems dogmatic at best. Can
you support your position, AL? It sounds like Capt. Kirk is right on this
one.
Norm
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:06:23 +1000 (EST)
From: Ken Willing <kwilling at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: 60-70: Nice mnemonic, but...
For those such as myself, who use Celsius and also are in need of all the
mental crutches we can get, the G. Fix 60 C.- 70 C. conversion schedule is a
godsend as a mnemonic. (The two-rest conversion clearly also has the virtue
of easy manipulation by adjusting gross relative times, rather than
attempting to precision-tune the single temperature in a one-rest
conversion).
However: For those of us who do these rests by parking the temperature at a
certain point and letting the mash sit (imperfectly insulated) as the
temperature drifts down a little, I think the mnemonic needs a patch. In
line with my own recent results, apparently confirming Ross Brodeur's
observations on HBD the other day about beta activity at 60- being notably
less than at a couple of degrees above 60... (And given that optimum temps.
for alpha without it disappearing too fast are 70 and a little below..)
Therefore..
I think that for us drifters it probably makes sense to consider the
"60" degree rest to be a rest which ENDS at 60C.,
whereas the "70" degree rest BEGINS at 70C.
That's the patch I'd propose.
Ken Willing
kwilling at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au
Sydney, Australia
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 14:08:40 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: RIMS != Decoction/Infusion/boiling hops in water
Keith writes:
>Now that I think about it, a RIMS is actually drawing off a little bit of
>the mash liquor at a time, heating it, and mixing it back in the mash.
>Sounds more like decoction mashing than infusion mashing to me. Maybe a
>more correct term would be Incremental Decoction Mashing System (IDMS).
Absolutely not. RIMS is the *OPPOSITE* of a decoction mashing system.
In a decoction mashing system, the THICKEST part of the mash (mostly grain,
very little liquid) is heated, whereas in the RIMS, the thinnest part of
the mash is heated. Maybe a more correct term would be Recirculating
Runnings Mashing System (RRMS).
***
Kirk writes (quoting me):
>> Infusion mashing is the heating of the mash with additions of boiling
>> water...period, end paragraph
>I completely disagree with Al on this and feel the common use and meaning
>of the word infusion shouldn't be narrowed artificially or confused with
>any particular technique used to conduct one--even if it has been in the
>past. This may be common brewing parlance based on how infusion mashes
>were temperature controlled, but the definition of infusion is to steep
>in hot water. No more, no less. This is the definition I've seen used
>in science, chemistry and I believe cooking. It says nothing at all about
>how the hot water is obtained or maintained.
But, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, there is MORE to the definition.
According to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary and Funk and Wagnall's
Standard College Dictionary, indeed, one of the meanings for "infusion" is
the extraction of something by soaking a substance in a liquid (often water).
However, if indeed this is the case, then aren't all mashes "infusion" mashes?
How else can we convert the starches to sugars and then separate them from
the husks than by soaking the malt in water? I do not believe that I am
artificially narrowing the meaning of "infusion mash" but rather trying to
get the usage of the expression back on course. British brewing books use
this terminology more often than American books as they commonly refer to the
temperature-control additions of hot water to the mash as "infusions." This
is the source of my reasoning that the it is the *other* meaning of the word
"infuse," namely "to pour in" (from the Middle English word "infusen," Middle
French word "infuser" and the Latin word "infusus" pp. of "infundere" all
meaning "to pour in"). Also from Webster's: "INFUSE implies a pouring in of
something that gives new life or significance;"
I feel that the usage of the words "infuse" and "infusion" were corrupted a
long time ago to include the wider meaning of the resulting extraction made
from an infusion of liquid, but I'm quite sure that this was NOT the meaning
of the words as applied to mashing. If that's not the case, then what's the
point? "Infusion mashing" would then be no more specific than "mashing."
Furthermore, as if this thread needs more life, Kirk writes:
>You either get the solubles out by steeping (infusion) or by boiling
>(decoction).
The purpose of the decoctions is not to get solubles out of the grain, but
rather a way to increase the temperature of the mash. I've read that the
need for decoctions arose from the need to raise the temperature of the
mash reproducably without the use of a thermometer, but I would not be
surprised to find that it may also have been partly due to the fact that
you can't apply direct flame to a wooden mash/laeuter tun. Well, not for
long. Therefore, in summation, it only makes sense that if one is to
add the qualifier "decoction" to one method of increasing mash temperature
then the other qualifier "infusion" refers to another method of increasing
mash temperature.
***
Stephen writes:
>Since the concentrated wort will reduce hop utilization, has anyone ever
>tried boiling the hops in a seperate vessel with just water, then adding that
>water to the wort after the boil? Not considering all of the complex
>chemical reactions involved, one might expect that this would lead to even
>better extraction than boiling in a normal concentration wort.
It might work, but you must, at least, be cautious of the pH. The pH of
my tapwater is in the high 7's ususally and that will extract quite a bit
of tannin from the hops. Ray Daniels, in a talk on beer colour at the
AHA Nationals, showed a *brown* liquid which was simply hops boiled in water.
The pH of beer is usually (hopefully) in the mid to low 5's. I don't know,
however, whether acidifying your hop boiling water would solve all your
problems.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:46:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sascha Kaplan <kaplan at panther.middlebury.edu>
Subject: Hydrometer
Hi. I'm pretty new to this...well, I'm working on my first batch right
now. In fact, it's about ready to be bottled, but I'm not quite sure.
So, my question is, I've got this hydrometer, and I'm pretty sure I can
figure out how to use it, but then again, I don't want to risk five
gallons of beer if I'm wrong. So, I think it's time to bottle, I open up
my fermenting bucket, drop the hydrometer in, take a reading and
then...what? Close up tt and take another reading the next day?
Can you do that, or does it skunk the beer to open the fermenting bucket
and then not bottle it? If I decide to risk bottling the beer without
taking a reading, how do I know how much more sugar to put in beer?
Anyway, I hope that these questions aren't too inane.
Thanks,
Sascha
- ---------------------------------
| Alexander 'Sascha' Kaplan |
| Middlebury College |
| MC Box 2623 |
| Middlebury, Vermont 05753 |
| Tel: (802) 388-3711 ext. 3558 |
| Fax: (802) 388-7505 |
- ---------------------------------
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1847, 10/03/95