HOMEBREW Digest #1858 Mon 16 October 1995
Digest #1857
Digest #1859
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
60c rests (Andy Walsh)
'sugar free' rootbeer? ("Colgan, Brian P.")
Betas/DMS/weighing (Jim Busch)
If Operating Systems Were Beers (tfields)
Re: Bronze Ball Valves ("Palmer.John")
Easy Cheap Grain Scale ("Palmer.John")
Nashville Pubs (Richard Buckberg)
RE> Electronics (KevCallahan)
Hello, re o/n mash, bottle removal ("Steven D. Lefebvre")
(Fwd) ("Pat Babcock")
Broadway Brewing, ATF & Labels (Jeff Benjamin)
KOJI (rich.byrnes)
overnight mashes (KrisPerez)
HDL/LDL Ratio (John W. Carpenter)
Overnight Mash in Cooler/Other Opinions ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
RE: Oak cask challenge ("Paul Smart")
Soda keg dispensing (Martin M Mastera)
Oregon Brewers Festival (LARSEN_JIM)
maple paddle update ("Frederick L. Pauly")
AWWWW SH**!! (Mark Worwetz)
Diabetic Pop/N2O/Heimweh (A. J. deLange)
Gott cooler conversion ("Sharon A. Ritter")
Making Extracts (sort of) (Chris Strickland)
Jockey Box Experience (Rich Hampo)
"Choke"! ("Pat Babcock")
RIMS process questions (DragonSC)
aluminum pots (Rolland Everitt)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 23:33:56 +1000
From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh)
Subject: 60c rests
Hello.
I don't think this should get into a long, drawn out argument, but I
personally always use a 60C rest for all my beers, and I think it works very
well as an aid to obtaining optimum balance for the particular style you are
making. I first got the idea from George Fix's posts from August last year
(although it is obviously a well established technique judging by Steve's post).
Suppose you want a dry beer (as I do because my beers used to be too sweet -
I guess I just don't know what I am doing!)
A 65C rest may well be the optimum (if you want dryness) for a single temp.
infusion system, on the balance of fermentability to extract yield. However,
I find this very difficult to hit accurately, for a few reasons:
- I don't trust my thermometer (when did you last calibrate yours?)
- I think it is difficult to add the correct amount of water to hit an
accurate target temperature in an infusion system (unless you are very
experienced)
- unless you stir the **** out of it, you will get temperature differentials
all over the place (and just where did you read that thermometer again?)
- unless you use a cooler system, you lose a lot of heat and the temp is not
easily maintainable for more than about 15 min.
The target temp in a single temp infusion is very important. Too low and you
will not get a decent extract; too high and you get sweet beer.
Solution?
Use a 60C rest in a step infusion system and raise to 70C after X minutes!
The problems above are not as important this way.
eg. single infusion at 67C desired. It is very easy to be *at least +/-2C*
(I'd suggest more) over the mash due to the above factors. This has a huge
effect on the outcome. ie. it is not very predictable.
60C +/-2 will still give a fermentable beer. Errors of +/-2C are not very
important. You will not get full conversion at this temp (about 75% Steve?),
but this is solved by raising to 70C afterwards. You can balance the dextrin
fraction easily by varying the amount of time at 60C. 15 min at 70C is ample
in my experience to complete conversion in any case, so the time at 60C is
critical to the final outcome.
(Fosters Special Bitter in Australia has a single temp infusion at 70C for
just 7 minutes to complete conversion: makes it cheap to make. add heaps of
sugar and it makes it fermentable)
eg.
(below are for full malt beers)
15 min at 60C => malty/sweet
30 min at 60C => balanced
45 min at 60C => dry
>45 min => thin
This is not an absolute guide, and you have to adapt it to individual's
setup and style. One advantage is you can keep the pot on the stove (check
temp every 15 min). This can be used for *any* style, although some may
benefit from 40C or 50C rests as well (I usually include a 40C beta glucan
rest with the malts we get here)
I believe many commercial brweries use a similar system.
eg. Hahn Premium (100% all malt Australian micro-brewed lager: NZ Super
Alpha hop)
40 min at 60C
15 min at 70C
(these are from brewers' mouths)
result?
clean, dryish, malty lager (according to one of the brewers - "Would be the
best beer in the world if they used Saaz for finish hopping". Current
Brewmeister Chuck Hahn has achieved this award with NZ Steinlager before.)
Commercial brewers do not use the 60C step for protein rests, just for final
sweetness, malt balance (ie. they filter it anyway), although I must say I
get clear beer with this technique, without filtration (draw your own
conclusions).
Come on, you ESB lurkers! I know you do this too!
Where are you?
Andy Walsh.
PS. Congrats Kinney!
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 09:36:55 EST
From: "Colgan, Brian P." <bcolgan at sungard.com>
Subject: 'sugar free' rootbeer?
Subject: "sugar free" root beer?
Larry Lowe writes:
>i have a diabetic nephew who would love for me to make him
>some "soda pops", but the obvious problem is the sugars
>involved. has anyone ever heard of making these sodas so
>that a diabetic could drink it? he and i would appreciate
>any responses. TIA
bpc 13oct:
The root beer extract that I made recently had two sets of instructions - one
with all sugar, and one with only a cup per 5 gal for cabonation, and then add
artificial sweetener to taste. Most of the sugar should ferment out, leaving a
low sugar soda.
hope this helps.
Brian Colgan "Every one has to believe in something."
bcolgan at sungard.com "I believe I'll have another homebrew."
h:(610) 527-8896 / w: (215) 627-3800
Radnor, PA.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:36:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Betas/DMS/weighing
Just kegged another version of an IPA Im doing some pilot brewing of.
The first one was 14.9P and finished at 3.3P, had about 5% Munich and
a lot of CaraMunich and a touch of CaraPils. Mash at 150-148F for one
hour, mash off at 170F, lauter 170. ADA=78%, American Ale yeast.
Batch 2: same specialties, used Hugh Baird as base instead of DeWolf.
Doughed in at 149F and quickly adjusted with cold water to 145F. This
dropped to 140F over 35 minutes and then was boosted with direct fire to
148F for 20 min, then 170F, lauter. Same yeast. OG=15.9P, FG=3.1P.
ADA=80.5%.
This shows that the beta amylase rest will have some impact on real degree
of fermentability, but the overall percentage in this example is only
2.5%. It is very close to my target, and next time Ill try to dough in
closer to 142F, since I want a well attenuated IPA and there is enough
caramel/munich malts in this recipe to provide body/mouthfeel.
Al writes about DMS:
<While I'm at it, I might as well add that I'm well aware that the
<higher levels of SMM in the paler lager malts are the main (maybe
<the only) source of DMS in lagers. The lack of DMS in Munich Dunkels
<is one possible argument to the contrary, but not a definitive one.
I think part of the reason for this might be the use of Munich malts
in high percentages in the grist of a Dunkle, but this surely varies
a lot in each brewery. Malts that are kilned more have more precursors,
which is one of the reasons that Pale ale malt is near impossible to
generate DMS beer. As I suggested to Pat, the use of European Vienna
malts might be a good idea when aiming to minimize DMS production. Its
also interesting to note that a lot of German brewers use a dark coloring
syrup to make a dunkle beer, the syrup is basically a malt extract and
thus adheres to Reinheithsgebot. I know a recent gold medal winner at
the GABF was made with this stuff for coloring.
Rick asks:
<I've just made a paddle for stirring my mash and brew out of
<maple. Should I put a finish on it like polyurathane or clear
<epoxy, or leave it unfinished?
Mine is red oak and it is unfinished, I dont think you need to.
Barry asks about scales:
<What type of SCALES do people out there use to weigh out grains.
What I do is calibrate a measuring vessal, of late it has been a 2 Qt
plastic pitcher. I level fill it with each of my most used grains,
then weigh the results. Then I just use this as a "yardstick" and
multiply how many pitchers of grain I need for a given recipe. Works
fine for me. Sometimes you want high accuracy for less than full pitcher
volumes and in this case you can just weigh the remainder or calibrate
a smaller unit measure. You need to calibrate the vessal for each grain
type and crop as it will vary quite a bit from malt to malt and even
from year to year (kilning and moisture levels vary as does kernel size).
You need a good hop scale anyway, so a small capacity scale is a requirement.
If I were to purcase a new scale, Id buy a digital Ohaus with auto-tar
feature. Very handy but they run about $200.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov
Colesville, Md
"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLONDE HOPPEBIER!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:31:53 EST
From: tfields at relay.com
Subject: If Operating Systems Were Beers
Fellow Homebrewers,
Happy Friday the 13th! The following was forwarded to me by Gabriel
Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. (gabe at cpcug.org). He gets
credit for the VM Beer, which he appended to the original (which
arrived completely unattributed). If anyone knows whom to credit for
the rest of this wonderful passage, pls post. This you will like :-)
If Operating Systems Were Beers...
DOS Beer:
Requires you to use your own can opener, and requires you to read the
directions carefully before opening the can. Originally only came in
an 8-oz. can, but now comes in a 16-oz. can. However, the can is
divided into 8 compartments of 2 oz. each, which have to be accessed
separately. Soon to be discontinued, although a lot of people are
going to keep drinking it after it's no longer available.
Mac Beer:
At first, came only a 16-oz. can, but now comes in a 32-oz. can.
Considered by many to be a "light" beer. All the cans look identical.
When you take one from the fridge, it opens itself. The ingredients
list is not on the can. If you call to ask about the ingredients, you
are told that "you don't need to know." A notice on the side reminds
you to drag your empties to the trashcan.
Windows 3.1 Beer:
The world's most popular. Comes in a 16-oz. can that looks a lot like
Mac Beer's. Requires that you already own a DOS Beer. Claims that it
allows you to drink several DOS Beers simultaneously, but in reality
you can only drink a few of them, very slowly, especially slowly if
you are drinking the Windows Beer at the same time. Sometimes, for
apparently no reason, a can of Windows Beer will explode when you open
it.
OS/2 Beer:
Comes in a 32-oz can. Does allow you to drink several DOS Beers
simultaneously. Allows you to drink Windows 3.1 Beer simultaneously
too, but somewhat slower. Advertises that its cans won't explode when
you open them, even if you shake them up. You never really see anyone
drinking OS/2 Beer, but the manufacturer (International Beer
Manufacturing) claims that 9 million six-packs have been sold.
Windows 95 Beer:
You can't buy it yet, but a lot of people have taste-tested it and
claim it's wonderful. The can looks a lot like Mac Beer's can, but
tastes more like Windows 3.1 Beer. It comes in 32-oz. cans, but when
you look inside, the cans only have 16 oz. of beer in them. Most
people will probably keep drinking Windows 3.1 Beer until their
friends try Windows 95 Beer and say they like it. The ingredients
list, when you look at the small print, has some of the same
ingredients that come in DOS beer, even though the manufacturer claims
that this is an entirely new brew.
Windows NT Beer:
Comes in 32-oz. cans, but you can only buy it by the truckload. This
causes most people to have to go out and buy bigger refrigerators.
The can looks just like Windows 3.1 Beer's, but the company promises
to change the can to look just like Windows 95 Beer's - after Windows
95 beer starts shipping. Touted as an "industrial strength" beer, and
suggested only for use in bars.
Unix Beer:
Comes in several different brands, in cans ranging from 8 oz. to 64
oz. Drinkers of Unix Beer display fierce brand loyalty, even though
they claim that all the different brands taste almost identical.
Sometimes the pop-tops break off when you try to open them, so you
have to have your own can opener around for those occasions, in which
case you either need a complete set of instructions, or a friend who
has been drinking Unix Beer for several years.
AmigaDOS Beer:
The company has gone out of business, but their recipe has been picked
up by some weird German company, so now this beer will be an import.
This beer never really sold very well because the original
manufacturer didn't understand marketing. Like Unix Beer, AmigaDOS
Beer fans are an extremely loyal and loud group. It originally came in
a 16-oz. can, but now comes in 32-oz. cans too. When this can was
originally introduced, it appeared flashy and colorful, but the design
hasn't changed much over the years, so it appears dated now. Critics
of this beer claim that it is only meant for watching TV anyway.
VMS Beer:
Requires minimal user interaction, except for popping the top and
sipping. However cans have been known on occasion to explode, or
contain extremely un-beer-like contents. Best drunk in high pressure
development environments. When you call the manufacturer for the list
of ingredients, you're told that is proprietary and referred to an
unknown listing in the manuals published by the FDA. Rumors are that
this was once listed in the Physicians' Desk Reference as a
tranquilizer, but no one can claim to have actually seen it.
The biggest problem is before you can drink any one of them you have
to buy a really expensive bag of chips to go with it.
VM Beer
Originally (1972) marketed in 24-oz. cans, was repositioned in 1990 as
"Enterprise Beer for the 1990s" with 31-oz. cans. The missing ounce
never mattered, because one can of VM beer could have the same effect
as dozens, hundreds, or thousands of cans, at minimal increased cost,
and without a corresponding increase in wastewater or solid waste.
Though VM beer suffered from neglect by its brewer (International Beer
Manufacturing), it can now be produced in industrial quantities by the
economical "homebrew" kit, BC (BeerCan) Server 500 System/390.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Tim
"reeb!"
Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
74247.551 at compuserve.com _or_ timfields at aol.com (weekends)
timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)
Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Oct 1995 08:08:11 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Bronze Ball Valves
Jack Dickerson wondered whether Bronze (as opposed to Brass) ball valves are
safe to use in brewing equipment.
Yes.
Brass and Bronze are primarily copper and are safe for drinking water usage.
Some alloys contain a small percentage of lead to aid machining and these may
be soaked in a 2:1 vol:vol solution of white distilled vinegar and hydrogen
peroxide (common grocery store varieties) for 15 minutes to dissolve off any
surface lead. The metal will turn a buttery gold color when its done. If the
solution turns green, it means its past done and you are starting to dissolve
copper.
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Oct 1995 08:38:29 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Easy Cheap Grain Scale
I made an inexpensive and accurate grain scale to use in my homebrewery.
It is the old Balance type scale, a suspended rod with a bucket on one side and
lead weights on the other.
0
|
======A====|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
/\ S S S S S S S
/ \ _
------ [_]
| |
| |
| | Well, That thing (<-) is a bucket, and the little thing hanging
------ from the S hook is a 1 lb lead weight I got at the fishing
tackle shop. I also have a 2 lb weight. I checked them for
accuracy on the gram balance here at the Lab, but could also have taken them to
a grocery store to weigh on their certified scales. To use the grain balance,
its just a matter of measuring carefully to set the distances, add the
appropriate amount of lead weight to the moment arm and add or subtract grain
to make it balance. It can be Very accurate. I used standard galvanized steel
electrical conduit for the rod. Works great.
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:33:47 -0700
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.com>
Subject: Nashville Pubs
Any brewpubs or beer resources of note in Nashville?
email is fine to preserve bandwidth. Thanks in advance.
Rich
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:44:25 -0700
From: KevCallahan at eworld.com
Subject: RE> Electronics
> a.) L1--100uH choke (200 turns of 20 guage wire wound on a 1.5x0.5
>ferrite rod). Is the wire bare or insulated? Isn't this a species of
>resistor? And what happens to the ends of the 20-ga wire, are they wired
>into the line?
>Why ferrite, why not copper? And is ferrite simply iron?
You need insulated wire- Magnet wire is best, especially with 200 turns.
Magnet wire has very thin, clear insulation. For best results, the windings
should be tightly spaced and placed on the rod one layer at a time. A
ferrite rod is not the same as an iron rod. I believe ferrite rod consists
of iron and non-ferrous material to produce inductors with more inductance
and better frequency response. A good electronics store should stock the
magnet wire and the ferrite rod.
*********
Back to BEER...I'm looking make my siphoning easier. I currently fill the
siphoning hose and racking cane with sterilized water but this can be a pain.
(I should note I am in a condo and space is at a premium.) My idea is to
add a branch line near the end of the hose with a one-way valve so I can
start the siphon with my mouth without risk of contamination. Once started, I
can switch over to the main line.
US Plastics has 3-ways stopcocks for $15-25. These are the chemical
resistant, high pressure variety. I don't need and don't want to pay for
this level of quality. I would expect a regular quality 3-way would not be
much more expensive than the standard 2-way (line on/off) version found in my
local brew shop for $1.19. Anyone know of other good sources of this type of
hardware? Or, does anyone have a good low-tech siphoning solution?
Kevin Callahan
Boston, MA
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven D. Lefebvre" <slefebvr at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Hello, re o/n mash, bottle removal
Greetings all,
I have been lurking here for about 2 years, and have recieved a lot of
good info. I am a Biochem PhD student and have been brewing for 5 years
with 30 all-grain batches in the last 2 years. I also am the
microbiologist for the Magic Hat Brewery in Burlington. VT. So now that
I am out of the lurker mode I will try to contribute when possible :-).
Regarding OVERNIGHT MASHES I just read the recent Zymurgy and was
motivated to do a brown ale using this method. My method utilized two 5
gallon pots in which I did my mash. Both mash tuns were stabalized at
158F with about 13 # of grain in each. They were then put into the oven,
which was stabalized at 130F, and kept there form 11pm til 6:60 am. At
this time the tepmerature in both pots ranged from 142F to 151F. With
the majority of recordings in the 145F range. A negative Iodine test
for several samples was achieved. The mash was then brought to 170F for
5 min. mash out.
Results: My #1 concern was souring the mash by reaching too low a
temp in the tuns. This never occured, luckily, and I tasted no sour or
off-flavors from the extended mash. My new concern, however, is that the
body that I want will not be there because of the decrease in temp.
Assuming some B-amylases survived there was plenty of dextrins available
to convert to more simple sugars and plenty of time to do this. I figure
that I had 2-3 hours in the 150-158 range and the remaining 4 hours in
the 142-149 range. The beer is still fermenting, but I will update the
"body" results when consumption ensues.
Conclusions: IMO I would raise the stove temp in my system to
keep the final temp above 150F min. If I were using a Gott cooler, I
would definately pre-heat with warm water before mashing in. Also I
would do an O/N test w/ water alone. Although this would not hold the
temperature as well as water & grains it would give you some indication
of the maximum temperature drop you could expect. I will probably do
this again, but I found that the time saved was small. I still had to
set up all my equipment the night before, and bring my sparge water to
temp in the morning.
Finally, what is the best reagent to use to remove bottle labels. I
have seen it posted before, but can not find it on the cat's meow or
archived digests.
I hoped this helped..or added more info..
Peace
Steven
Brewing may not be rocket science, BUT it is biochemistry...
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:40:43 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: (Fwd)
I received the following in a note from Wallie Meisner. He brings up
an interesting suggestion, so I pose the following for a vote by the
collective:
>I don't know what's involved, but what are the chances that you
>could post the used equipment posting as an "appendix" to the HBD
>once a week?
IMHO, this is a good idea in that it will help with the 'access'
problem of those not web-capable. I would be willing to convert and
dump the contents to HBD on a _monthly_ basis (because a: it doesn't
change that frequently so far and b: that's about all the available
time I have for it at the moment), if that is deemed 'desirable' by
our cyber-community.
Vote 'Aye', 'Nay', or 'Abstain' in an e-mail not to
pbabcock at oeonline.com. If the 'Ayes have it' (that just means I get
a lot of them), I'll start the echo at the end of this month.
BTW: I've been keeping the preceding ads at update rather than
rotate them out as I had previously stated. If you have an ad, and
your items are gone, drop me a note and I will obliterate your ad
(Obliterate sounds more *POWERFUL* than delete, doesn't it?
Eradicate's cool, too...).
Awaiting your decision...
Pat Babcock | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for
President, Brew-Master | therapy..." -PGB
and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence
pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB
SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758
Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:05:01 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Broadway Brewing, ATF & Labels
> Apparently, they ran into a little trouble with the Colorado authorities
> over the label. No, they didn't commit the crime of providing nutritional
> information, as did Mr. Grant; 'twas far worse: apparently someone was upset
> about the following words on the label: "Good Beer, No Shit!"
I actually found and purchased two bottles of Road Dog last night at a
liquor store here in Fort Collins CO. An article I had read in the
Rocky Mountain News implied the beers had never made it out of the
brewery, but apparently at least some did.
The front label has "Good Beer -- No Shit" in pretty prominent letters,
and there's a paper tag around the neck with some of Thompson's writing
where he refers to being "ripped to the tits." But apparently that's
not all the story. According to the newspaper article, Broadway/Flying
Dog started shipping the beer before the labels had been approved by the
BATF. This is a big no-no, swear words notwithstanding.
I remember talking to Sandy Jones, owner of HC Berger brewing here, just
before his brewery opened. We were talking about his labels, and he
mentioned that he had one label rejected because a colon in the Surgeon
General's warning was placed too low, or something utterly trivial like
that!
The label approval process for commercial breweries is a real pain in
the butt, so Broadway just tried to do an end-around. It didn't quite
work. I hope they don't get in too much trouble; I want to still be
able to buy Doggy Style.
Something to think about next time you're having trouble affixing labels
to your bottles of homebrew. It could be worse :-(.
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Think! It ain't illegal yet." -- George Clinton
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:39:14 EDT
From: rich.byrnes at e-mail.com
Subject: KOJI
THIS IS A CORPORATE DOCUMENT - Big Fat Hairy Deal
FROM: Rich Byrnes
Subject: KOJI
The subject line says it all, I got a note from a friend in Canada
looking for a source of Koji, never being the one to turn down the
request of a friend, I told her I'd comb the world to find it :-)
Any mail order firms in Canada or North America that carry Koji and
other Sake ingredients (Different rices?) would be appreciated.
THANKS!!
Rich Byrnes
Founder, Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
Ignore the next few lines, I always do!!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.)
Rich.Byrnes at E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:37:41 -0400
From: KrisPerez at aol.com
Subject: overnight mashes
Hello all;
Had to throw in my two cents, here goes;
>> Also, does anyone have comments on doing an overnight mash in a
>> round Gott cooler? This would begin at ~9pm, 158 deg., sparge and boi
>> the next morning. Does this have any drawbacks?
>The drawback you'll have is that your mash temperature over the night
>will be dropping slowly, steadily, and probably a fairly long way down.
>I don't have the information at hand, unfortunately, but one thing that
>definitely springs to mind is lactic acid bacteria: Is 158 degrees
>enough to kill them all off? If not, they are VERY active if the mash
>cools down to 100 or 120 degrees, and that could lead to souring.
>Anyone else out there have hard info on this?
A couple of years ago, I wanted to brew but was very pressed for time. I
tried the overnight mash and it went very well. It was a five gallon batch,
in a 5 gallon gott cooler. I mixed the water and grain in the cooler about 10
or 11PM, adjusted the temp to 158F and went to bed. Next morning about 7 or
8AM the temp had only dropped to 140! (I was amazed.) I was done boiling and
cleaning up by 11AM.
Isn't there another potential drawback here? I'm sure I read or heard
somewhere that a long sparge can draw out tannins or chlorophenols or some
such from the husks? The beer I made was a trappist style dubble, and turned
out great, no worries at all.
Obviously, YMMV.
Kristine Perez
KrisPerez at aol.com
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 14:52:31 EDT
From: jwc at med.unc.edu (John W. Carpenter)
Subject: HDL/LDL Ratio
A.J. deLange wrote:
>Concerning the positive correlation (up to a point) of longevity and
>alcohol consumption: I certainly agree that correlation does not prove
>causality but in this case there is an explanation. Alcohol consumption is
>correlated with an increase in the HDL/LDL ratio and an increase in this
>ratio is associated with increased life expectancy.
Exercise also increases the HDL/LDL ratio, so if you want to live a long
life, just start running from pub to pub! ;)
John Carpenter - Chapel Hill,NC
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 13:06:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Overnight Mash in Cooler/Other Opinions
In #1856 Calvin Perilloux asked about experience with infection
when mashing in a cooler (overnight). I only did this one time
quite by accident in preparing wort for a starter--fortunately
the amount was small because it was most definitely soured by
morning. The aroma was unmistakably...well, bad.
Bob P mentioned the problem a brewery had here in Colorado with
The Authorities over its label ("Good Beer, No Shit!"). This
reminded me of the thread recently regarding how packaging vs
content influences sales. I personally am not bothered at all
by the use of a four-letter word on the label, and find it very
amusing. But, from a business perspective it doesn't say "We want
to be in business for a hundred years." The message I get is
"We're having some fun now." I think it would be a poor choice,
Beer Gestapo or no.
Charlie brought up the issue of style guidelines, but it was the
proposal for shipping a 5 gal cask of pale ale via yacht that
intrigued me. I know from personal experience with an American
white oak keg that yes, the pale ale would be almost undrinkable
due to oak flavor (and aroma). Yet, I have to think ale in real
European oak casks properly conditioned should hold out quite
well--isn't that how wine is aged, as well as a lot of lambic?
I dunno, I just thought real ale was stored in oak for weeks
(at least) and haven't heard anyone describe oakiness as a real
ale attribute. I don't know one way or another, just asking.
KRF Colorado Springs
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:35:00 -0500
From: "Paul Smart" <vortech at mainelink.net>
Subject: RE: Oak cask challenge
In HBD 1856 , Charlie from Brisbane writes:
>Now I would like to issue a challenge here. I'll brew John
>Brockington's award winning IPA, put it in a 5 gal oak cask and get
>myself down to the Sydney Cruising Yacht Club. There I'll persuade a
>polite Californian yachtie (they are always polite) to stow it on his
>trip home. I ask John to retrieve the cask from him at the San
>Fransisco Yacht Club and taste it. The barrel will be worn smooth
>inside, all hop aroma will be long gone, the hop flavour will be
>almost overpowered by oak, and the strong bitterness much mellowed.
>The colour will be a good deal darker. The flavour profile will miss
>the AHA description by thousands of nautical miles and several
>degrees of longtitude, but it will be very close to what the officers
>of the British Raj tasted in >their clubs in Lahore! As Rob points
>outabove, because of changes, historical authenticity is bunk. An
>"IPA" now is just a heavily hopped Pale Ale with a more romantic
>name. If someone calls it an IPA, shout "where's the oak?!"
I can't quote verbatim, but I seem to remember Terry Foster in "Pale
Ales" saying English oak is far different from other types of oak (i.e.
does not have the strong oaky" character). Also, he indicates that
the wood is treated with (pitch or tar) to seal it, further isolating
the beer from gathering "woody" character. I suspect the worst
conditions the beer was exposed to were constant agitation and warm
temps... So if we add oak chips to our IPA we may not be in the
"traditional" style. If there are any barrel "coopers" (cask
craftsmen) out there, perhaps we could hear how the wood is actually
processed to make a traditional cask...
Paul Smart, Pablo's Brewing Co.
South Portland, Maine
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:07:23 -0600
From: Martin M Mastera <mmastera at m3r.com>
Subject: Soda keg dispensing
I am becoming interested in going to a soda keg type dispensing system. Can
anyone suggest texts that might be available detailing the equipment and
processes involved?
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Marty
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Date: 13 Oct 95 06:44:00 -0700
From: LARSEN_JIM at Tandem.COM
Subject: Oregon Brewers Festival
The Oregon Brewers Festival is traditionally held on the last weekend in
July. However, the actual date is determined by the Portland city parks
people, who arrange the many summer events on Waterfront Park around the
state of the grass. At this early date, I do not believe you can get a
fixed weekend for the Fest. (They had a hell of a time a couple years
ago coordinating with the AHA Conference.)
Your best bet is to inquire of one of the major micros (Portland
Brewing, Bridgeport, Widmer) sometime in the spring.
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:34:10 -0400
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at galen.med.virginia.edu>
Subject: maple paddle update
To all of you who responded to my question to finish or not to
finish my maple brew paddle, many thanks. Most agreed that
leaving it unfinished would be best and after seeing how nicely
it shines after finish sanding with steel wool I think I agree.
Only one brewer thought that maple would ruin my beer but he was
kind enough to offer to dispose of it for me. Now is that nice or
what.
Rick Pauly Nuclear Med Tech Charlottesville,VA
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:40:41 -0600
From: Mark Worwetz <MWORWETZ at novell.com>
Subject: AWWWW SH**!!
Howdy from Zion!
After reading literally hundreds of requests and replies for information
about
Refrigerator thermostats and mindlessly deleting them, what do you think
I would end up with in the garage of my new house? Right! A beer fridge
of my dreams! If anyone is not EXTREMELY tired of these requests, could
you PLEASE send me information about commercially available units?
As they say around here: "That would be celestial!, 'preciate ya!"
TIA
Mark Worwetz
mark_worwetz at novell.com
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:42:33 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Diabetic Pop/N2O/Heimweh
Larry Lowe asked about soda pop for his diabetic nephew. Fructose is
fermentable and enters the metabolic pathway past the point where insulin
regulation occurs (in humans) so some diabetics use it as a sweetener. I am
NOT qualified to give medical advice but if the child's physician has
authorized fructose as a sweetener for other uses I would suppose that it
would be OK to use it in soda pop. It would be best to have the parents
check with the medic.
I had 2 private e-mails about the N2O comments in #1856 both of which
mentioned that the gas has a sweet taste. I don't know if those gentlemen
will post something themselves but this is certainly worth mentioning.
Calvin Perilloux signs with "Bayerisches Bier, Staerker als Heimweh." I'd
love to see how he would explain this to non-Germans.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
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Date: 13 Oct 95 20:59:17 EDT
From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Gott cooler conversion
I've been reading HBD for six months and realize that Gott conversion is a
regular subject of discussion. Short of downloading 4 years of HBD's and
searching for "Gott", is there a faq or other compiled info that explains the
details of converting and using a Gott-type cooler as a combo mash vessel/lauter
tun? I have questions like:
1) How do I add a thermometer?
2) Why and how should I attach a rigid tube at a "Y" near the
outflow fitting (I've seen it in pictures!)?
3) How can I convert the parts from my current Phil's sparger
system to the Gott (like the spray arm assembly thru the Gott lid)?
4) If I sparge with the Gott lid on won't there be a pressure
problem?
5) Has anyone done the calculations to figure out how much
water at what temp is needed to hit various strike temps?
6) etc., etc., etc.
I've got the spigot conversion figured out from searching HBD's #1778 to the
present. Any other info or sources would be GREATLY appreciated!
Dan Ritter in Grangeville, Idaho
102446.3717 at compuserve.com
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 21:11:43 -0400
From: cstrick at iu.net (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Making Extracts (sort of)
With my very business schedule I haven't been able to make a batch of beer
in over a month now. I'm looking for ways to cut down the one day time
periods for all-grain.
One thought, I mash some beer, then freeze it after sparging (Kinda like
making my own extract). Has anyone done this before, if so, what are the
best ways to do this?
- --------------
Chris Strickland
cstrick at iu.net
http://www.teg.saic.com/mote/people.html
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:06:10 -0400
From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Jockey Box Experience
Howdy All!
I am just getting into kegging my brew. I've got a half-size
fridge that I currently use to store beer and hops. Unfortunately,
it is about 2 inches too short inside to fit a corny keg. There has
been talk of a jockey box (coil of tubing in chest of ice) but I was
wondering if anyone has made a permanent jockey box. I think I
could drill a hole in the side or back of the fridge and run beverage
tubing thru it. Inside the fridge would be a coil of copper tubing in a
container of water (for increased thermal mass). Then the tapper would
connect to the other end of the tubing so beer would get cold as
it travels thru the copper tubing immersed in the cold water.
Has anyone done anything like this before? If the tubing is too long
will the beer go bad sitting in it inbetween servings?
In a similar vein, I just picked up a 20# CO2 tank (used but good shape)
and a *brand new* dual guage regulator for $50 at a restaurant supply/salvage
place. THey had all sorts of neato Stainless steel stuff. He even had
a SS beer fridge (about 3 ft wide and 3.5 ft tall) with a beer shank
and everything, but he wanted 200 bucks for it. Maybe I'll go back and
try to bargain him down..... Bargains can be had in the seedier portions
of town. (No the stuff is not stolen - they typically buy up all the
fixtures when restaurants go out of business.)
Happy brewing and thanks for any Jockey info!
Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing
Livonia MI
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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:14:34 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: "Choke"!
Don't recall who asked, but here goes...
I reference to som RIMS plans seen somewhere by someone:
A "choke" is an inductor; not a resistor. Ferrite is, as I recall,
iron impregnated ceramic. The key here is 'ferrous' - of iron. The
material used *must* be magnetic to serve its purpose (field
convergence or concentration or something. It's been a while...).
Copper is non-magnetic and, therefore, will not work.
(I was an Electrical Engineer until 2 months after I graduated. Then
necessity made me a mechanical engineer...)
- ---------------------
And I don't have a *clue* who brewed/marketed Erlanger. With all the
authoritative claims posted thus far, all I know is that I didn't ;-)
Perhaps some beer bottle/can collector might be able to actually put
their hands on one (empty or full, no matter!), and read the label
to us? Please? T'would be cool!
Pat Babcock | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for
President, Brew-Master | therapy..." -PGB
and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence
pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB
SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758
Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock
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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 07:39:24 -0400
From: DragonSC at aol.com
Subject: RIMS process questions
I have been experimenting with my RIMS system for 10 months now ( I only brew
on holiday weekends), trying to find the best place to read the temperature
for controlling the in-line heater. The temperature probe started out just
before the heater (attached to the SS piping, not in-line), but I found that
my mash temperature was low by about 10 degrees F. I then placed the temp.
probe closer to the mash output and in-line. This helped, but was still off
by around 4 degrees F. Finally I took a two foot SS temp. probe and inserted
it into the middle of the mash. I was right on temperature wise, but the
output of the heater was about 8 degrees F. higher than the mash temp. at the
bottom of the mash until equilibrium. BTW, my electronic thermometer was
verified by comparing its reading against the calibrated thermometer in the
sparge tank when measuring sparge water.
How critical are these temperature points? I made an alt last weekend with
temp. rests at 125, 144 and 158 with mashout at 169, and got 93% efficiency
according to SUDS. But while I was at the 158 rest I measured the temp. of
the outflow. It measured 165.
Over a period of 20-30 minutes the temps equalize. This probably isn't a
problem for single mash temps, but what about when I have all these rests?
Should I move the temp probe to the top of the mash, rather than the middle?
I would assume that the mash would take even longer to reach temp. if I did
that.
What does the RIMS experienced collaborative have to say?
Steve Dragon
Stark Road Brewery,
A division of D&S Industries
Worcester, MA
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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 07:59:29 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: aluminum pots
Somebody mentioned apparent leaks from aluminum pots. I have had
this experience - tiny pinholes in old aluminum pots. I have
also noticed metallic taste in acidic foods cooked in aluminum. I
would not use them for beer. I use Al only for cooking bland
foods like pasta. If you can't plump for stainless steel, then
stick with enamel. Yeah, it gets chipped, and you get rusty spots,
but I prefer the tiny amount of iron introduced in this way to
what may well be a greater amount of aluminum. And enamel is so
cheap that you can probably afford to replace your cooker after
a few years of faithful service if necessary. I'm more concerned
with the taste than the danger of Alzheimer's, which has
probably been...um...I forget what I was going to say.
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1858, 10/16/95