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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  Re: Siphoning (ferguson ct 71078)
  Re: Siphoning (Jeremy Cook)
  RE: Siphoning (Gordon Hester)
  re: Siphoning (Darryl Richman)
  siphon starting (utah-cs!att!ttrdf!frank)
  re: Precipitate in wort. (Darryl Richman)
  siphoning & canning wort (Pete Soper)
  Re: single-step infusion method (Paul Close)

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Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 10:41:35 EDT
From: ferguson%X102C at HARRIS-ATD.COM (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Re: Siphoning (From: florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET)

florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET writes:

>When siphoning my brews, I've gotten the flow started by sucking on
>the end of the hoze (after rinsing my mouth with whiskey).  I've 
>never had a problem with contamination.  However, I often wonder if
>there isn't a better way to do this.  I have tried filling the hoze
>with water first, but this seems like a silly thing to do: expose
>the brew to fresh water.  I don't think bleach solution is the    
>solution either.
>
>Does anyone have a better idea on how to get the flow started when
>siphoning?

What I usually do is dip an extra foot or so of tubing (assuming my
liquid level is fairly close to the top of my fermenter) into my
fermenter and then squeeze the tube and quickly pull the extra foot
back out again.  When I pull the pinched tube out, it is filled with
wort.  If the wort level is lower in the fermenter, you have to dip
more tubing into it.  The idea is to pull out enough wort-filled
tubing to reach over the side of the fermenter and down to a level
that is below the wort level.  With the standard 5 gallon carboy or
bucket filled nearly to the top, this is trivial.  This technique
doesn't work with the rigid siphoning tubes that some homebrew shops
sell.

Chuck Ferguson             Harris Government Information Systems Division
(407) 984-6010             MS: W1/7732  PO Box 98000  Melbourne, FL 32902
Internet:                  ferguson%cobra at trantor.harris-atd.com
uunet:                     uunet!x102a!x102c!ferguson

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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 09:57:54 +0200
From: Jeremy Cook <jeremy at kheops.cmi.no>
Subject: Re:  Siphoning

To get siphoning started without contamination (I always suck anyway,
never had any problems) take the siphon tube and feed it slowly into the
brewing container with the end or tube tap open. Feed it in all the way so 
that the tube fills with brew, don't let any air bubbles get in by 
pushing too fast. You now have your siphon tube fully submerged and full of 
brew (still holding on to the end). Now block the tube or close the tap
and simply pull the tube out of the brew. If the end is blocked off properly
the tube will remain full of liquid as you pull. Aim the tube towards your
jug, bottle or whatever and open the tap. Hey presto!

Jeremy Cook

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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 13:45:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gordon Hester <gh0t+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RE: Siphoning  

In response to "florianb's" questions about siphoning: (sorry,
I forgot the real name)

The way I go about it is by sterilizing my hose in a weak bleach
solution first. At the same time, I boil up a couple of gallons
of water that I use for sterilizing other, non-meltable stuff
like a ladle and a thermometer. After that water cools down to about
150 F. or so, I put the hose in, making sure there aren't any air
bubbles in it. The I take it out, plunge one end into the big plastic
open fermenter that I rack the beer into before priming and bottling
and the other end into a bucket, and let it siphon until it looks like
beer instead of water (a matter of seconds and about a pint of liquid).
This way I don't have to suck on the hose, but I also don't have
to expose the beer to unsterile water. After just a few batches,
I've become adept enough at this that I think virtually none
of the water in the hose backs up into the beer, anyway.

Since I've mentioned sterilizing with bleach solution, I'd like
to ask how others view this - I seem to recall reading somewhere
that some people think using bleach to sterilize is a bad idea.
True? False? Why? How careful are people in rinsing out whatever
sterilizing solution they use from fermenters and bottles? I've
taken to washing bottles carefully with hot water, then soaking
them for a couple of days in a bathtub full of weak bleach solution,
then just draining them upside down in their boxes (lined with
newspaper) before bottling - no further rinsing. I haven't noticed
any off tastes or other effects from this. Comments/advice?

gordon hester
gh0t+ at andrew.cmu.edu

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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 08:05:28 PDT
From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com>
Subject: re: Siphoning

From: florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET
"When siphoning my brews, I've gotten the flow started by sucking on
"the end of the hoze (after rinsing my mouth with whiskey).  I've 
"never had a problem with contamination.  However, I often wonder if
"there isn't a better way to do this.  I have tried filling the hoze
"with water first, but this seems like a silly thing to do: expose
"the brew to fresh water.  I don't think bleach solution is the    
"solution either.

This is always coming up.  It *may* be the weakest link in homebrewing;
on the other hand, I would hazard a guess that most people start a
siphon with less preparation than you and seem to come up with good
beer anyway.  Here are some ideas:

*  Your idea about filling the hose with water is a good one.  You have
   to sterilize it and rinse it, right?  On the last rinse, keep it full
   and let the first run go down the drain until you have beer coming
   out the end.

*  I keep a bleach-solution soaked paper towel handy and wipe the end of
   the hose with it after I get the line filled with beer.  The paper
   towel has been squeezed dry, so it is the contact with the hose that
   is sanitizing, not any solution that remains on the hose.

*  You can fabricate or buy one of several types of siphon starters.  One
   I've read about in a back zymurgy is a T fitting;  you run water from
   a hose through the cross of the T and connect the vertical part to your
   siphon hose.  When the beer begins to flow, you pinch off the hose and
   move it to your receiving container.  (I think, this is from memory,
   not experience.)

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 14:21:14 -0600
From: hplabs!utah-cs!att!ttrdf!frank
Subject: siphon starting

I found a great item at the local fish and pet store for starting
the siphon.  It's a rubber bulb with a hole in each end big enough 
for my siphon hose.  I put one end of my siphon hose in the carboy
with the brew,  and the other end into one end of the siphon bulb
down by my priming tank.  I squeeze the bulb and cover the other hole
in the bulb with my whiskey soaked finger.  Releasing the bulb now
draws the brew up into the siphon hose and on its way to the priming
bucket.  A couple quick repetitions of this and the brew's a flowin.

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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 08:18:04 PDT
From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com>
Subject: re: Precipitate in wort.

From: Richard Hargan <HARGAN at UMDD.UMD.EDU>
" - Why did the wort darken from an amber color to a dark color?  Is this
"   normal?  Personally, I prefer dark beers, but I am a little curious as
"   to why there should be such a pronounced change in color.

This is the normal darkening from cooking the wort.  Long boils will
appreciably darken the wort by creating meladinoids (sp?) and carmelizing
sugars.

" - What is the precipitate that has formed in the bottom of the jars?  I had
"   placed a small amount of vivegar in the water in the bottom of the pressure
"   cooker to prevent water stains (or so the instruction manual advised),
"   and I suppose it is possible that some of the vinegar vapor could have made
"   it's way into the jars, but that seems a little unlikely to me.  I had
"   originally planned on using an unhopped malt extract in this batch, but
"   after checking on my supplies, all I had was hopped extract.  Could this
"   explain the precipitate?

This precipitate is a good sign.  It is called trub (troob) and is
precipitated protiens and tannin.  A good amount of trub is formed
during the so called hot break that often occurs about 15 minutes into
the boil.  (See my article a couple days ago about my wheat beer that
had so much hot break that it looked like egg drop soup.)  A good hot
break is important because your beers will come out much clearer.  You
don't want to add this trub to your fermenter if you can help it
because it is excellent food for a variety of marauding invaders and is
of no use to your yeast.  Such beasties can directly affect the flavor
of your beer and, when the yeast flocculates out, can attack them and
release sulfury compounds that give flavors and odors associated with
"yeast bite".

"I am going to go ahead an use one of the jars of wort as a starter for some
"Wyeast and brew up a batch of Irish Ale and see what happens.  I had planned
"on getting a yeast bank kit and preserve some of the starter culture for later
"use, but now I just want to see if the starter wort is contaminated.

If the domed lid on your wort stays down, you don't have to worry about
contamination.  When you make your starter, try to avoid pouring any of the
trub into the starter bottle.

"If anyone has any suggestions/explainations for what happened, I would be
"interested in hearing them.  Thanks.

You can avoid this by cooling the wort and racking it off of the trub into
your jars, which you can then can in the normal way.

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 16:21:50 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: siphoning & canning wort

From: florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET

>Does anyone have a better idea on how to get the flow started when
>siphoning?

  This is how I siphon. Laugh all you want. I certainly do. Imagine one of
those orange carboy caps on a carboy, with a racking tube through the
big hole and a vinyl tube leading from the racking tube to the target
of the siphoning operation. Now imagine a blood pressure squeeze bulb
stuck on the other, smaller tube coming out of the carboy cap. A few
squeezes starts the siphon action and the bulb can then be removed. Hose
clamps are optional :-) Seriously, a hose clamp to absolutely seal the
junction between the racking tube and siphon tube can eliminate the
tendency to leak air into the wort as it transfers.
  Incidently, after hearing from a friend how easy it is to make holes
in glass, I'm going to try putting a spigot into a carboy and see if I
can cut out siphoning altogether.

From: Richard Hargan <HARGAN at UMDD.UMD.EDU>

> - Why did the wort darken from an amber color to a dark color?  Is this
>  normal?  Personally, I prefer dark beers, but I am a little curious as
>  to why there should be such a pronounced change in color.

Malliard (sp?) reaction, I think it is called. It always happens and is
the basis for the darkening of a lot of things when they are heated.
It is perfectly normal. It is more extreme when a pressure cooker is used
than with normal boiling, but boiling long enough to get a decent break
is also going to cause significant darkening.

> - What is the precipitate that has formed in the bottom of the jars?  I had

No sweat. This is just the same kind of trub that you get in your boiler
when you brew. Just decant the wort off this when you pour into the
starter bottle. In my opinion it is important to get this stuff out of the
wort and leave it behind anyway, so this is a good thing to observe.

I ferment my starters out and decant almost all the the liquid off the yeast,
then swirl the yeast up from the bottom with the last bit of wort and pitch 
it. This minimizes the color effects. If not fermented out, however, you
would be discarding a lot of yeast still in suspension, so this is an
either/or situation.  Some will suggest pitching the starter when it is
very active, but I can only report that I do not have lag problems and
cannot tolerate the extra color.

Someone suggested I make my starter wort by mashing pale malt instead of
using extract. This is a good idea, but it turns out you end up with
starter wort that is "dark" instead of "very dark", so it is only a
partial solution but might make the difference.

>I am going to go ahead an use one of the jars of wort as a starter for some
>Wyeast and brew up a batch of Irish Ale and see what happens.  I had planned
>on getting a yeast bank kit and preserve some of the starter culture for later
>use, but now I just want to see if the starter wort is contaminated.

  You probably have the most sterile wort in your neighborhood. Don't worry
about that aspect the slightest bit. If you followed the general canning
directions, all is well and that wort will remain fine for a very long time.
Longer than you can resist the urge to use it, I'll bet.
  I cover my canned wort with sterile aluminum foil so when I want to use
it I just pull off the foil, pop the lid and pour without worrying about
airborne contaminants settling on the jars. Also, don't forget to remove
the rings after the jars cool. It is really annoying to get all set and
then find the rings are almost welded on with dried wort that was driven
out during the canning :-)

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Pete Soper                                             +1 919 481 3730
arpa: soper at encore.com        uucp: {bu-cs,decvax,necntc}!encore!soper 
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA

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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 89 10:29:31 PDT
From: cacilj!paul at uunet.UU.NET (Paul Close)
Subject: Re: single-step infusion method

man at granjon.att.com writes:
> 
> I have been thinking about getting into all-grain brewing for a while, but 
> haven't done anything about it.  The most recent issue of Zymurgy has an
> article on mashing using the single-step infusion method and a cooler.

I don't get Zymurgy--could someone please summarize this method?  Are there
pointers to this method in some of the books on homebrewing?  Thanks,
-- 
Paul Close	paul at cacilj.CTS.COM 	...!{uunet, ucsd, crash}!cacilj!paul

    The Obi-wan Kenobi method:  "Use the Source, Luke"	-Jim Fulton

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #188, 06/28/89

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