FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Manifold Fluid Dynamics (John Palmer)
  Thanks / Fitting source (claytonj)
  Draining (krkoupa)
  tire valve carbonators (Charles Wettergreen)
  O2 PET permeation ("Dr. Larry Allen")
  Conversion check (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)
  1995 THIRSTY Results (Wolfe)
  malt mill (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  Competition Announcement (Alan Folsom)
  Electric vs Gas vs Propane (Denis Barsalo)
  (no subject) (Ken Johnsen)
  Brita pH/Yeast (A. J. deLange)
  Re: myces = fungus (Richard Seyler)
  Freezing yeast/DMS and aeration/allgrain water/yeast when priming (Algis R Korzonas)
  More forced carbonation vs. natural. (Mark E. and Diane Stull)
  Propane alternatives ("Tomlinson, James")
  re: Philmill, SA Ads (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  Airlocks (Norman Pyle)
  Mead (J. Todd Hoopes)
  A Vote for Fritz... impeach koch (Ken Schroeder)
  Well water (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:34:54 -0700 (MST)
From: johnj at primenet.com (John Palmer)
Subject: Manifold Fluid Dynamics

Dave Ludwig makes some interesting insights into Lautering behavior:

>With water in the tun, can't argue with that too much but the grain bed
significantly changes the pressure drop across the slits which, in my
opinion invalidates any area matching (too many variables: type of grain,
crush, grain bed settling, etc). Like it was said in the rest of the post,
the false bottom design seems to offer the best choice as far as
distributing flow and preventing channeling. But I think the slotted
manifold with slots downward offers some clogging resistance. Picture this;
horizontal holes trap husks until the holes are blocked with the filtering
husks.

Well, I dont think the area matching arguement is totally invalidated; you
are probably correct that it is more complicated than just area, but the
point of our BT article was that to obtain uniform flow thru the
slits/holes in any lautering device, the outflow resistance needs to be
greater than the inflow. Therefore you need to provide as much inflow area
as practical, and make the valve at the outflow the control for the flow
rate. To this end, the area arguement certainly helps.

and

>I believe that, as with the false bottom, layers of filter
material are established above the lautering device. With the false bottom
holes, it's easy to see how a piece of husk with some flour piled on top
would stop flow (stuck sparge). With described manifold, the flour is
trapped between layers all the way to the bottom. The filtered liquid can
channel across the bottom of the tun and exit up through the manifold slots
on the bottom.This is the key. My opinion is the manifold is less prone to
clogging.

With a properly saturated, fluid mash, the grist will stratify (not sure if
thats the proper term...) such that the heavier particles and husks will
settle toward the bottom providing the filter bed. Greg Noonan has a
illustration of this in his book, Brewing Lager Beer. If you stir your mash
during, you will facilitate this alluvial stratification (any soil
scientists in the house? Dave?). My point is that False Bottom or Manifold,
the grainbed will be the same. However, you are probably correct that by
facing the manifold slits down, you allow better flow across the bottom of
the cooler to the outflow than you might otherwise get thru the false
bottom.

and

> I added a standpipe to the center manifold
which extends up through a hole in the cooler lid that I use to underlet the
grain bed when adding hot water. But the standpipe needs to be capped off
when the bed get compacted so as to get max gravity benefit from the fluid
column in the exit tube. Performance? With 2 or 6 row barley malts, flow is
too fast so I throttle it back to get about an hour sparge.

My friend Paul Prozinski talked about this when we were preparing the
article, If you use an open standpipe on your outflow, you can be assured
of uniform flow by watching the water level in the standpipe. If the water
level is sucked way down, then the inflow capability is being exceeded and
channeling is occuring in the grainbed. If the level is equal or only a bit
under the water level in the tun, then the inflow capability of the
lautering device is not being exceeded and the flow thru the grainbed is
more uniform. I forget exactly why we decided to not go into this in the
article, perhaps because most brewers dont use standpipes and because the
area/valve model should remove the need for standpipe monitering.

Longer sparges definitly improve extraction.

John

John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj at primenet.com  Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/



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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 11:21:32 -0500
From: claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil
Subject: Thanks / Fitting source

     Howdy,
     
     Due to my unexpected vacation (furlough), I haven't been able to send 
     out the summary and thanks to the nine folks who responded to my 
     question of whether to add the grains or water first in my new Gott w/ 
     copper manifold mash tun.
     
     Domenick, Neal, Dave L., Stan, Bruce, and ? (Sorry, the message header 
     was deleted when I saved the message from ccmail) said they add the 
     grains to the water.  ? (sorry again) said adding water to the grain 
     would cause stuck runoff.  Neal and Bruce suggested it was beneficial 
     to preheat the tun to get more consistent results.
     
     Jeff, Dave H., and Phil all add the water to the grains.  Jeff 
     suggested to lay foundation water to fill the manifold but that adding 
     the grain to all of the water may denature the enzymes of the first 
     grains to hit the water.  Dave H. grinds the grain the night before to 
     save time on brew day.
     
     I found a good source for SS fittings in my area, the local hot rod 
     specialty store.  I used a 3/8" flare SS bulkhead fitting and a bung 
     from a Faas Frisch (sp?) mini keg to replace the stock gasket in the 
     Gott.  I put some Teflon tape on the threads of the bulkhead fitting 
     and screwed it into the bung (very tight fit) and it works great.  No 
     leaks.  Many thanks to the guy who suggested the mini keg bung!!
     
     Now I need my boiling keg and burner and I'm ready to go (can you say 
     can't wait for Christmas?).
     
     Many thanks to all the folks who responded to my question.  I'll 
     report back after the first of the year on how my first mash goes.
     
     Cheers,
     
     Joe Clayton
     (ak753 at detroit.freenet.org (preferred) or claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil)
     Farmington Hills, MI   USA

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 08:40:40 PST
From: krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Draining

Thanks to those who helped me troubleshoot the problems with my new false 
bottom.  As it turns out, priming the outlet tube / pump wasn't really the 
problem.  And the false bottom wasn't really the problem either, although 
the problem occurred when I installed it.  The problem was that the intake 
to the outlet tube was sitting flush on the bottom of the tank.  Nothing 
could physically get into the tube.
So now my question is how to prevent this from happening again.  I could 
shorten the tube, or I could continue to let the tube rest on the bottom 
and serrate/bevel/slit/perforate the opening.  Any ideas?
|        __________|___
|       |   _______ ___       outlet tube to pump 
| grain |  | grain |
|-------|  |-------|      --- false bottom 
|\______|__|______/|          intake tube flush on tank bottom
     
|       |  |       |
|-------|  |-------|          Shortened intake tube (risky but open). 
|\________________/|          Tube *could* bend down (no support) or
                              pop up out of the false bottom
     
|       |  |       |
|-------|  |-------|          Tube sits on bottom (stronger). 
|\______XXXX______/|          serrate/bevel/slit/perforate intake tube
     
     
Thanks!    Ken Koupal   krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com


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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 11:52 CST
From: chuckmw at mcs.com (Charles Wettergreen)
Subject: tire valve carbonators   

To: homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com

In HBD #1889 korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis Korzonas) wrote about using a rubber 
tire valve as a home-made carbonator (tm):

HH> My concern with this system (and the first I saw of it was about three
HH> years ago -- Randy Mosher brought one he made to a CBS meeting) is that tire
HH> valve stem is not made of food grade material.  In fact, if you smell it,
HH> you can definately smell that butyl rubber (I think) aroma -- like a tire.
HH> While there will be little contact between the rubber and the beer, there
HH> will be contact between the headspace and any aromatics the rubber happens
HH> to emit.  On a big, dark, heavy beer, probably not noticable, but on a

I don't know if tire valves are made from butyl rubber, but I believe that 
Al's right that the aroma may permeate your beer. There's a better way to
make one of these without the rubber problem, however. Go to any tire store
that sells magnesium (mag) wheels. They don't install rubber valves with these
wheels, they use tire valves made out of stainless steel. They're only a
couple of bucks, are threaded, and have a flat flange on the bottom which 
should easily fit inside a PET bottle cap.

Chuck
chuckmw at mcs.com
Geneva, IL

 * RM 1.3 00946 * 
                             

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:11:35 -0800
From: "Dr. Larry Allen" <docsbrew at aol.com>
Subject: O2 PET permeation

Regarding the use of PET bottles, the discussion has gone like this...

>>Seems PET is gas-permeable such that a bottle 
>>will go flat after several weeks.

>It's the other way around.  A lot of CO2 won't leak out, 
>but O2 will leak in.

Now, how does THAT work??  If the inside of the bottle is under that kind of
pressure from the CO2, how can O2 permeate it??  I don't get it.  It seems
to me that if the bottle is pressurized (and I've felt PET bottles, and
they're like rock), then no gas could get in.  Please explain...

Doc. 


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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 12:34:32 EST
From: HYMT59A at prodigy.com (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)
Subject: Conversion check

Hello,

 A couple of questions. My local Homebrew shop sold me an Iodophor to 
check for starch conversion during mashing. I also made up an 
iodine/potassium iodide solution we use in the lab to check for the 
presence of starch in various substances. This is 5g iodine dissolved 
in a solution of 7.5g potassium iodide in 10 ml of water, then 
diluted to 1 liter. When I use my lab solution for conversion check, 
it continues to turn dark well past the point when the iodophor is 
telling me conversion is complete. If I go by the iodophor, I usually 
have conversion in about 1 hour. According to the iodine/potassium 
iodide I don't have full conversion for 1.5 - 2.0 hours. Which one is 
right? I have been using the latter so far. Have been achieving 78 - 
80 % eff. using a 10 gal Gott, but I'm not sure if too much mash time 
is detrimental.

Anyone have a good source for an accurate and reasonably priced scale 
for  hops, aside from an electronic balance which I'm too cheap to 
buy?

Anyone have a source to buy Michael Jackson's "The Beer Hunter" on CD 
ROM?

Thanks for the help.

PS. How about a two day vacation from the HBD for Thanksgiving, I'm 
75 pages behind, can't keep up!! ;-)


Scott


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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 12:43 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: 1995 THIRSTY Results


WARNING--LONG POST

==========

                   1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition Results

On November 18th, The Honorable Iowa River Society of Talented
Yeastmasters held its second annual fall homebrew competition in Iowa City,
Iowa.  A total of 218 beer and mead from brewers in 13 states were entered
into this year's competition.  The winners of each category are shown below.

American Lager & American Wheat

1st--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
2nd--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
3rd--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA

American Pale Ale

1st--Eric Grugger                  CIBA          Decatur, IL
2nd--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
3rd--John Denny                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA

Barley Wine & Strong Ale

1st--Peter Diltz                   CRAZY         Coggon, IA
2nd--Steve Piatz                   MBA           Eagan, MN
3rd--Steve Piatz                   MBA           Eagan, MN

Belgian Ale

1st--Dave Schinker                 THIRSTY       Wappelo, IA
2nd--Greg & Madeline Chaney        KCB           Prairie Village, KS
3rd--Eddie Brian                   THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

Berliner Weisse, German Dunkel Weizen & Weizenbock

1st--Dennis Davison                CBS           Greenfield, WI
2nd--Michael Murphy                RALF          Belvue, NE
3rd--Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori      THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

Bock

1st--Steve Solik                   None          San Jose, CA
2nd--Tom McDaniel                  THIRSTY       Coralville, IA
3rd--John Denny                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA

Brown Ale

1st--Bob & Kurt Feller             THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA
2nd--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
3rd--Greg & Madeline Chaney        KCB           Prairie Village, KS

Brown Porter & German Dark Lager

1st--Michael Murphy                RALF          Belvue, NE
2nd--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
3rd--Bob & Kurt Feller             THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

California Common & India Pale Ale

1st--None awarded
2nd--Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori      THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA
3rd--Gary Lloyd                    THF           Topeka, KS

Classic Dry Stout

1st--Greg & Madeline Chaney        KCB           Prairie, Village, KS
2nd--Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori      THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA
3rd--Eddie Brian                   THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

Continental Light Lager

1st--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
2nd--John Clausen                  None          Coralville, IA
3rd--Jeff Clark                    None          Cedar Rapids, IA

English Bitter

1st--Tom Keith                     CBS           Evanston, IL
2nd--Mark Kellums                  CIBA          Mt. Zion, IL
3rd--Robert Ward                   None          Dekalb, IL

English Pale Ale

1st--John Denny                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
2nd--Scott Kruger                  CRAZY         Marion, IA
3rd--Tom Keith                     CBS           Evanston, IL

Foreign, Imperial, & Sweet Stout

1st--J. Reefe Jr. & J. Reefe III   None          Omaha, NE
2nd--Tim Kennel                    None          Iowa City, IA
3rd--Steve Solik                   None          San Jose, CA

Fruit Beer & Lambic

1st--Michael Murphy                RALF          Belvue, NE
2nd--Ginger Wotring                SLB           St. Louis, MO
3rd--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA

Fruit Mead

1st--Michael Murphy                RALF          Belvue, NE
2nd--F. Santora & R. Penrod        ZB            Fairbanks, AK
3rd--Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori      THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

German & Scottish Ale

1st--Duane Maki                    THIRSTY       Cedar Rapids, IA
2nd--Delores Thompson              THIRSTY       Oxford, IA
3rd--Eddie Brian                   THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

German Weizen

1st--Mark Groshek                  UF            Denver, CO
2nd--Greg & Madeline Chaney        KCB           Prairie Village, KS
3rd--Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori      THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

Herb & Traditional Mead

1st--Suzette Smith                 MM            Madison, NJ
2nd--Jim Clayton                   THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA
3rd--Jim Clayton                   THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA

Herb/Smoke/Specialty Beer

1st--Ted O'Neil                    SLB           St. Louis, MO
2nd--Mark Granner                  None          Iowa City, IA
3rd--Gregg Gelbach                 None          Olathe, KS

Robust Porter

1st--Robert L. Ward                None          Dekalb, IL
2nd--L Liebergen & D Homewood      None          West Branch, IA
3rd--Steve Piatz et. al.           MBA           Eagan, MN

Specialty Beer

1st--Gregg Gelbach                 None          Olathe, KS
2nd--Tom Keith                     CBS           Evanston, IL
3rd--Wayne Bowman                  THIRSTY       Iowa City, IA
HM--Chris Kaufman                  DBC           Derby, KS
HM--Tom Keith                      CBS           Evanston, IL

Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfest

1st--Richard Hardin                None          Iowa City, IA
2nd--Steve Solik                   None          San Jose, CA
3rd--Wayne Swiers                  ZB            North Pole, AK


                               Best of Show Beer

1st--Peter Diltz, Strong Scotch Ale, CRAZY, Cedar Rapids, IA
2nd--Duane Maki, American Cream Ale, THIRSTY, Cedar Rapids, IA
3rd--Eric Grugger, English Pale Ale, CIBA, Decatur, IL


                               Best of Show Mead

1st--Suzette Smith, Lemon/Ginger Melomel, Morristown Mashers, Madison, NJ
2nd--Jim Clayton, Pepper Metheglin, THIRSTY, Iowa City, IA
3rd--Michael Murphy, Kiwi Cranberry Melomel, RALF, Belvue, NE


                               Best of Homebrew

1st--Wayne Bowman, THIRSTY, Iowa City, IA
2nd--Tom McInerney, Non-affiliated, Cedar Rapids, IA
3rd--Wayne Bowman, THIRSTY, Iowa City, IA


Special Awards

Up-and-Coming Local Brewer(s)--Bob & Kurt Feller, THIRSTY, Iowa City, IA
Most Entries--20 from Duane Maki, THIRSTY, Cedar Rapids, IA


DBC = Derby Brew Club                     KCB = Kansas City Biermeisters
MM = Morristown Mashers                   SLB = St. Louis Brews
THF = Topeka Hall of Foamers              UF = Unfermentables
ZB = Zymurgists Borealis


                                   Sponsors

American Mead Association, Colorado Junction, CO  (800-693-MEAD)
       (1-year membership for 2nd BOS Mead)

Home Brew Shop, Coralville, IA  (319-351-4487)
       ($150 in certificates for 1st, 2nd, & 3rd BOS Beer)

Just Hops, Mt. Zion, IL  (217-864-4216)
       (1.75 pounds of hops for 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Best of Homebrew)

Mazer Mead Competition, Ann Arbor, MI  (800-742-2110)
       (Unlimited entries for 1st BOS Mead)

Millstream Brewing, Amana, IA  (319-622-3672)
       (beer, jacket, & mug for 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Best of Homebrew)

Yeast Culture Kit Co., MI  (800-742-2110)
       ($20 gift certificate for Up-and-Coming Local Brewers)

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 16:02:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
Subject: malt mill

John,

I got my Malt Mill (it's awesome, by the way) from this place:

The Charleston Beer Works 

845-D Savannah Hwy
Charleston, SC 29407

Brewing Help & Local Orders (803) 571-4748 
Toll-free Order Line 800-225-2910
email to jquigley at homebrew.com


- -------


The price was $99.00 _including shipping_ !! He doesn't actually stock 
them, but he calls Jack and has it shipped direct. Mine arrived in less 
than a week, if I remember correctly.

Good luck,

Jerry Cunningham
 - Annapolis, MD

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:26:20 -0800
From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom)
Subject: Competition Announcement

Following is the announcement for my club's (The Keystone Hops, cute 
eh?) first contest.  I hope y'all will support us, and help make it a 
good one.  I am not an official organizer, but if you would rather 
avoid telephone contact, and address electronic requests for 
information, or registering for judging, I will accept your information 
and pass it on.  Thanks for your indulgence.

Al Folsom

- ----

                    The Keystone Hops Present
                                
                        WAR OF THE WORTS

                1st Annual Home Brew Competition

                   Saturday, January 20, 1996
                           9:30 A.M.

               The Buckingham Mountain Brewery and
                     Restaurant, Lahaska PA 
                        (215) 794-7302

War of the Worts 1996 is an American Homebrew Association sanctioned 
competition and provides you an opportunity to have your homemade beer 
and mead evaluated by BJCP registered judges.  Prizes and awards will 
be given for beers placing first, second, and third in each category, 
and for Best of Show.

Competition Guidelines and Entry Requirements:

+    WAR OF THE WORTS 1996 is open to ALL home brewers.
+    All beers must be noncommercial in nature and produced at home.
+    The entry fee is $6 for the first entry, and $5 for each           
     subsequent entry accompanying the first.  Checks can be made
     payable to Keystone Homebrew Supply.
+    Submit three 10-16 ounce bottles for each entry.
+    Bottles may be brown or green glass, and must be free of any
     labels,raised glass designs, etched logos, or other identifying
     marks.  
+    Entries with Grolsh style swing caps will NOT be accepted.
+    A completed entry/recipe form must accompany each entry.  If 
     entering more than one beer, make sure the correct entry/recipe 
     form accompanies each entry.
+    A bottle ID form must be attached to each bottle with a rubber
     band.
+    Beers will be judged according to the category/subcategory in
     which they are entered.  The style guidelines for each category
     and subcategory are included in this packet.
+    It is the responsibility of the brewer to decide which is the 
     appropriate category for their beer.
+    Entries will be accepted in the Beer and Mead categories.  Saki 
     entries will be enjoyed but not judged.
+    Categories with fewer than six entries will be combined with 
     another category.  Your beer will be judged according to the 
     category in which it was entered.
+    Entries which do not meet these entry requirements will be 
     disqualified.
+    Any disputes that arise during the competition will be settled by 
     the competition organizers.
+    All judges and Stewards are requested to arrive by 9:15 AM.

Entry Deadlines:

Entries will be accepted from 12/28/95 through 1/13/96.  Late entries 
will not be accepted under any circumstances.

Drop Off Locations:

Entries may be dropped off at any of the following locations:


Keystone Homebrew Supply                   Brew Ha Ha
779 Bethlehem Pike                         RD2 Box 2519-1
Route 309 & North Wales Road               Route 222
Montgomeryville, PA   18936                Fleetwood, PA   19522
(215) 855-0100.                            (610) 944-0500
Contact: Jason Harris                      Contact: Randy or Kathy

Home Sweet Homebrew                        Brew By You
2008 Sansom Street                         3504 Cottman Ave.
Philadelphia, PA   19103                   Philadelphia, PA
(215) 569-9469                             (215) 335-BREW
Contact: George or Nancy                   Contact: Don

Beer Unlimited (2 Locations)               B & B Homebrew
Great Valley Shopping Center               3488 York Road
Route 30 & Route 401                       PO Box 280
Malvern, PA                                Furlong, PA   18925
(610) 889-0905, Contact: Jim               (215) 794-7811
515 Fayette Street                         1-800-572-BEER
Conshohocken, PA
(610) 397-0666, Contact: Jim

Mail in Entries:

Mail in Entries should be sent to the Keystone Homebrew Supply 
location. This is the only location accepting mail in entries.  Mail in 
entries must be received by the entry deadlines.

Judges and Stewards:

If you would like to be a Judge or Steward, please contact Ed Rama, 
Judge Coordinator  at (215) 441-8807 or Keystone Homebrew Supply at 
(215) 855-0100 for details.

Lodging information is available upon request, contact Joe Mezo at 
(215) 230-4198.

Competition Organizers:

Please contact one of the competition organizers if you have any 
questions.

Joe Mezo                	Jason Harris             
(215) 230-4198            (215) 855-0100           



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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 16:56:49 -0500
From: denisb at CAM.ORG (Denis Barsalo)
Subject: Electric vs Gas vs Propane

        OK, OK... So I broke down and bought a beautiful Vollrath 38.5
quart (40 liters) Stainless Steel brewpot. I got it at quite a bargain I
believe!?  $190.CAN (137.50 U.S. approx.).
        Now, how to fill it and keep it at a rolling boil with the lid off
on my electric stove??!!?? I have one of those stoves that doesn't have
coils, but a flat metal element that doesn't get red with heat. So far I
can keep approx. 5 gallons going at a rolling boil, but the lid is partly
on.
        If I can convince my wife to get a gas stove, will I *really* see a
big difference? I mean, will I be able to boil 6 gallons of wort down to
5.5 gallons at a rolling boil and not wait for an hour before the boil
starts?
        What about those outdoor cookers everybody is using. Can I use one
when it's -10F outside? Can they be modified to be used with natural gas?
(That way I could use it inside)

Thanks

Denis Barsalo



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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 18:27:17 -0800
From: Ken Johnsen <kbjohns at escape.com>
Subject: (no subject)

Please send me  the homebrew digest. My email adrress is 
kbjohns at escape.com

Thanks

- -- 
Ken Johnsen





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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 20:05:33 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Brita pH/Yeast

In #1888 Bill Watt comented that water from his Brita filter measured pH 5.
This is probably because the water contains some carbonate that was not
removed by the ion exchange process. Upon standing, CO2 will escape to the
air and the pH will increase somewhat (5.2 - 5.4 or so). Upon boiling and
cooling the water should measure close to 7 but upon standing exposed to
the atmosphere the pH will creep back into the 5's as CO2 dissolves from
the air.

Wade Wallinger had some questions on starters. The fololowing answers are
my personal opinions:

Questios for the collective:
1. When stepping up, should the contents be re-aerated?
Definitely. In fact aeration can be carried out multiple times between
feedings. As long as nutrients (amino acids included) and oxygen are
available yeast will stay in a growth phase (if glucose is relatively low).
2. When stepping up, should the ;iquid be decanted?
Yes. Decant some of this liquid and taste it. See if you want this in your beer.
3. If not, does aerating introduce the potential for aldehydes?
The byproducts of the growth phase are different (at least in relative
proportions) from the byproducts of fermentation. The broth from a growing
yeast culture does not make very good beer.
4. If not, should subsequent steps simply double the volume each time?
After getting up to a couple of litres of starter simply decant and replace
to maintain that volume. The object is to get the mass of viable yeast
cells up.
5. Am I flaming the lip at the right step?
Ideally, flame whenever a container is opened.
6. When starting a lager yeast, should it ferment at room temperature?
Yes. It will produce an undesireable mixture of esters, fusels and
aldehydes at the higher temperatures which is why you decant the liquid but
the yeast will grow faster.
7. If so, will the resulting batch be estery?
Not if you throw the liquid out.
8. How much starter to I need for a barleywine with 15# LME in 5 gallons?
I'd say about 100 ml of thick paste ought to get you around 15-18E6 cells
per ml which should be good for a barley wine.
9. IMSR
I hope not.
10. any other comments?
When using extract for yeast food it is a good idea to add some yeast
nutrient/yeast starter/yeast hulls as extracts are often deficient in FAN.

A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com



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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:30:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Seyler <tad at bimcore.emory.edu>
Subject: Re: myces = fungus


In digest #1889 (November 21, 1995), Russell Mast wrote: 
> Kids, it's time to brush up on your Latin.  
> 
> myces = fungus 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Brettano is a reference to Briton, but it might also be 
> some Latin reference for Belgium.  Saccharo = sugar, btw.  
> 
> Come to think of it, maybe Myces is Greek.  The Myceleum?  Isn't that a
> Greek thing?  Or am I confused?  Well, one of those two.  
> 
> Parthenomyces - the yeast of death.
> 
>  -R

Not so fast there, Russell, while they may look like yeast, you are
forgetting about the genera Streptomyces, Actinomyces, and
Thermoactinomyces, (and I'll bet there are others that I can't think
of) all of which are gloriously procaryotic.  These are all 
filamentous bacteria.  You can't always trust the name.

While I am on the subject of microbes, has anyone ever tried pombe
beer?  I hear it is fermented with Schizosaccharomyces pombe.
If it is palatable, does anyone have a brewing culture? recipes?
It sounds foul, but hey, I won't knock it 'till I try it.

       --Tad <tad at bimcore.emory.edu>

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 15:03:27 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Freezing yeast/DMS and aeration/allgrain water/yeast when priming

Ken writes:
>Briefly, the common denominators of the three techniques look like this.
> Make a starter (1 liter) and wait for high kreusen.  Add sterile glycerol
>(the original posting suggest microwaving for 60 sec) at the rate of 10-20%
>(100 - 200 ml glycerol in 1 liter of starter).  Mix well (swirling or
>shaking).  Cut up into bite-size portions (say 100 ml), into screw-top test
>tubes or vials.  Cap/stopper securely.  Freeze quickly.

I would suggest waiting till post-kraeusen.  High-kraeusen is the point
of lowest glycogen levels and the yeast will certainly need that coming
out of their frozen slumber.  Yeast store glycogen when they sense their
sugar source depleating so that waiting till the yeast are just beginning
to sediment (starter beginning to clear) would be the point at which the
glycogen levels would be highest.  Do you see any reason why you would
not want the glycogen levels to be high?  Comments from yeast geneticits?

***
Bill writes:
>This pump used to cavitate and areate the wort causing DMS 

Aeration of hot wort causes HSA, not DMS.  Hot-Side Aeration gives sherrylike
flavours and aromas, darkens the wort and shortens shelf life considerably.
It does not increase DMS unless there's Obesumbacterium in the air ;^).

***
Denis writes:
>My problem is that my
>brewpot can't hold all that water! The recipe calls for 1.75 gal. to start
>mash, almost another gal. for stepping up to 150F, and another 3.5 gal. for
>sparging.
>Where could I cut back so that I could use my 4 gal. brewpot? I
>thought I would use a bit less to start, say 1.5 gal., then step up the
>mash by turning up the heat instead of adding boiling water, and then
>finally, sparge with only 2.5 gal. Will this screw up the recipe? Am I
>better off cutting back on the grain as well and just make a smaller batch?

You can use direct heat to increase the temperature, so that's not a problem
and when you add the sparge water you will be running off, so you don't need
to have room for both the entire mash and all the sparge water.  I'm assuming
this is a partial-mash recipe since you couldn't get any more than about 4.5
gallons of runnings from that amount of water (maybe 5 gallons).  Still,
you won't get the right amount of yield from your grain if you cut back on
the water and if you don't cut back, you still need room for the 5 gallons
of runnings.  What you propose would slightly mess up the recipe: you would
not get as much out of your grain as Charlie did and subsequently have a much
lower OG beer and then far too much bitterness for the OG.  Big stainless
steel pots are almost always available at restaurant surplus shops (those
that buy up used equipment from restaurants when they go out of business)
and will make your life as an allgrain brewer an order of magnitude easier.

Actually, I use a 10 gallon stainless steel kettle for heating strike and
sparge water and use a 8 gallon enamel kettle for mashing (EasyMasher(tm)).
I can then run off directly into the kettle on the floor while an insulated
bucket with a spigot holds the sparge water sitting on another bucket on the
countertop next to the EasyMasher.  Typically, I get about 32 pts/lb/g (or
5.2 gallons of 1.043 beer from 7 pounds of grain).

***
Randy writes:
>Why would one ever need to add yeast when priming with sugar?

If you are making a very high alcohol beer, the yeast is pretty pooped-out
and will take forever to carbonate if it does at all.  I lagered a 1.074 OG
beer in the secondary for three months at 45F and it carbonated just fine
with no additioal yeast.  Adding fresh yeast at bottling time is, however,
a very popular technique among Belgian commercial brewers, but then again
most Belgian beers are quite a bit stronger than the average US or UK or
German beer.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:27:18 -0500
From: stull at fred.net (Mark E. and Diane Stull)
Subject: More forced carbonation vs. natural.

Okay, so it looks to me like we've decided that there is ultimately 
no qualitative difference in the bubbles between force-carbonated beer
vs. naturally-carbonated beer.  But this raises another question in my
mind:  are there advantages/disadvantages to one approach vs. the other?
For example, does the extra aging time (presumably at or near room
temperature) of naturally-carbonated beer benefit the beer?

I mostly naturally-carbonate my kegged beers, but have been thinking
that I could start drinking them sooner by force-carbonating.  But then
I got to thinking that maybe there were other trade-off's involved....

Mark Stull
Jefferson, MD
stull at fred.net


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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 06:47:00 est
From: "Tomlinson, James" <TomlinJa at ctls.sch.ge.com>
Subject: Propane alternatives


Kirk writes:
>Over the course of a few years, I have shorted out a switch, ruined a
>receptacle and the enamel top on my electric stove.  The repair cost
>for the switch alone would have more than paid for an outdoor propane
>setup.  Mother Nature, in Northern Maryland, seems to know how to
>Rain on every weekend of the &^$ at # year, which severely limits
>outdoor brewing possibilities (no garage, either...).  With this out,
>I am currently looking for an alternative, but have not found a
>viable one yet.  Unfortunately, my house is all electric and has no
>natural gas hookup, which would be my first choice....

I've been mulling this over for some time. Propane is rather expensive. In 
addition to the propane burners that Walmart carries, they carry a nice 2 
burner Coleman "white-gas" stove($40-45). The cost of white gas is about 
$3/gallon. The newer stoves state they can be run on unleaded gasoline ($ 
1.0069 here). As  soon as Christmas is over, I plan to purchase on of these 
for camping, and brewing.

It may not help your situation (you must use these outdoors), but I thought 
I'd throw it on the table as a propane and electric alternative.

Jim
(No tag, is a _good_ tag)

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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:43 EST
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: re: Philmill, SA Ads

I, too, would like to echo the praises of another HBDer and Dan Listermann for
putting out a good quality, reasonably priced product. The Philmill is a well
crafted, versatile grain mill that I think most folks would give a thumbs up
to.  After making extract + specialty grain beers for a year and a half, I
have now graduated to partial mash recipes.  For specialty grains, the
put-the-grain-in-a-ziploc-bag-and-work-it-over-with-a-rolling-pin method was
okay; but when you are looking at a couple pounds of belgian pilsner malt and
want to get some kind of decent extraction rate, the rolling pin method simply
will no longer cut it.  I have only had the Philmill a few weeks, but I am a
satisfied customer.  Reasonable price, too (I paid $75).
And has anyone else found themselves chuckling at the new series of Sam
Adams<tm> television ads - the "Do you like beer?" ads!  I find myself sitting
there answering the rhetorical beer questions they pose:

"Do you like beer?"  [Duh...]
"Do you have a favorite beer glass?"  [doesn't everyone?]
"When people argue over red or white wine, do you order beer?" [yep]
"Do you know the difference between lager and ale?" [of course!]
"Have you ever thought of making your own beer?" [No, I DO make my own beer!]
"Can you name the four ingredients in beer?" [who can't?!]
"Did you ever keep a real cool beer bottle?" [several]

I think these ads are great fun, and I think they are aimed at folks like us;
the american beer consumer that like something besides BudMilloors.
They appeal to beer snobs, which I guess many of us could consider
ourselves...a very clever ad campaign by Boston Beer Co.
Happy Turkey Day!
Cheers
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu

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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:14:42 -0700
From: Norman Pyle <hophead at ares.csd.net>
Subject: Airlocks

Al K. writes about airlocks:

>Also, just as Jeff says, don't forget to add water
or some liquid to the airlock before active CO2 production is over (or you
will risk having your alcohols oxidized to aldehydes -- yuk).

I think this is slightly alarmist.  Not that it
doesn't have some basis in science, but in the
practical world, I think it's not such a risk.
Sometimes practice is simpler and, some might
say, more important than theory.

Consider those who do open fermentation.  This
oxidation "risk" is certainly greatest with that
method, yet there is little evidence to indicate 
this is real problem with open ferments.  It may
be where you draw the line on when "active CO2
production is over", but the bottom line for me
is that open ferments do not cause oxidation
issues.  Forgetting to put water in your closed-
ferment air lock is such a minuscule oxidation
risk, I just don't see it as an issue.

Norm 



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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:01:57 -0500
From: hoopes at bscr.uga.edu (J. Todd Hoopes)
Subject: Mead

        I am an all grain brewer for the most part, but I also like to make=
 the occasional mead.  I've always been a little worried that the high=
 alcohol content would kill off the yeast before bottling...So far no=
 problems.  However I have just started another mead with 8.2 kg honey. (OG=
 1.128).  Should I pitch again before bottling? Is this going to be a still=
 mead no matter what I do?

****************************************************************************=
**
***Do unto others.. for given a reversal of situation*** J. Todd Hoopes    *=
**
***they would surely do it unto you.                 ***Hoopes at bscr.uga.edu*=
**       *******************************************************************=
***********



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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 08:05:38 PST
From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: A Vote for Fritz... impeach koch

Greg responds in HD1888:

><Jim Koch>in my opinion, has done more to expand America's beer
>consciousness than anyone else -  Fritz Maytag and Pete Slosberg included. 

Well, IMHO, and to put it more accurately, Jim Koch may have done more in 
the past 5 years than Fritz or Pete. But, my vote would have to put Fritz 
Maytag as the "Grandfather" of the craft/micro/great beer revolution (big 
claim, eh?). When lookng into the what Fritz has done over the years, he, 
IMHO, has done more to get this whole thing off the ground and set the stage 
for people like Pete and Koch. Fritz help the New Albion brewery get started, 
then at its demise, helped Mendicino Brewing (Red Tail Ale) grow with cheap 
equipment and other arrangements which relieved some of the financial 
pressures. He helped Sierra Nevada with equipment, who in turn helped Mad 
River (Steelhead Ale, Jamacian Red). Anchor and Sierra Nevada were the first
widely marketed craft brews on the left coast. that's a lot of tounges to 
wake up. In my research, the great beer revolution started on the left coast
and quickly spread to the right. His company, Anchor Brewing, sponsors the 
California Homebrew Club of the Year Award which encourages homebrew clubs to 
further the art/science of brewing and give something back to the community. 
Many club which win this award produce fine craft brewers, currently brewing 
great beers in micros and pubs from Hawaii to Arizona to Oregon. Here is the 
part that gets me, he does it HONESTLY, and many times without financial gain 
(or law suites) (try both of those koch). Conclusion, Fritz is instrumental in 
setting the stage for all of us. Koch is using that stage to full advantage 
(mostly his advantage). Besides, Fritz bought Anchor in the 60's and brought 
it back to life by the early 70's. That's well before anybody else got 
started.(Don't mistake non-truthful advertizing as a history lesson, Fritz is 
the grandfather of America's great beer revolution, NOT koch the imposter and 
marketing genius).

Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing (Hoping to be as giving as Fritz Maytag when we go pro.)


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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 10:52:29 EST
From: HYMT59A at prodigy.com (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)
Subject: Well water

In HBD 1886 Amos says:

<From: JAWeld at aol.com

<In the HBD from 11/14/95, Phil.finkle ask if it is necessary to boil 
well
<water.  I would have to say yes, it is necessary.  For the same 
reason you
<boil water before feeding to newborn infants.  You should boil all 
water to
<remove the chance of bacterial infection.  And after all, isn't a 
batch of
<brew as helpless as a baby??  I would be especially careful of well 
water,
<which may or may not be chlorinated. 

I have to disagree with two points. I have made both extract and all 
grain using unboiled well water, and all four of my kids from infants 
on up have drank unboiled well water. In fact, newborns have great 
immune systems, especially if breast fed, and well water, once 
checked for E. Coliform, is very safe and relatively bacteria free. 
(of course any water may have other contaminants such as fertilizer 
byproducts, metals, etc.) There are also different types of wells. I 
would normally prefer a drilled well (75 - 200 Ft deep) that taps an 
aquifier  as opposed to a "point", that may only be 10 ft deep and 
utilizes surface water runoff.  I have never had a problem with 
bacteria infections in any of my batches, and have never worried 
about tap water contributing to contamination. I also prefer the 
taste of my well water to most municipal water systems because I 
don't like chlorine flavored water. Anybody ever experience bacterial 
problems directly attributable to use of well water ?

Scott



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1892, 11/24/95