HOMEBREW Digest #1900 Mon 04 December 1995

Digest #1899 Digest #1901

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Propane vs Natural Gas / Mashing in Oven - OK? (Jeff Hewit)
  Christmas Shopping for a Homebrewer ("Sharon Hutchinson-Assess.Co-rd")
  stratification (GKING)
  brew club drinking & driving ("Keith Royster")
  RE: Propane use / inside cooking want exhaust system. (Steve Alexander)
  Fritz vs Jim - Again (Paul D. Wiatroski)
  DMS in Lagers (dhvanvalkenburg)
  Home brewers in Safford, Arizona? (Mark Taratoot)
  mills and filters (LARSEN_JIM)
  I FLUBBED (Douglas Thomas)
  thread21 file repair program (gravels)
  stinking fridge/corn sugar priming (Algis R Korzonas)
  Re: What's Your Point Al?/soil science and runnings (Algis R Korzonas)
  Re: Full Sail in Berkeley? (IHomeBrew)
  Dilution responses, Special-B in Scotch Ale?, Multiple Starters, Cal. Lager Yeast? (anonymous-remailer)
  elevated conditioning, quality, sparging, fritz and jim, Hart (ed.lingel)
  Brew Schools (Steve Nellis)
  Riverside Brew Spots? (RANDY ERICKSON)
  Stuck Corks/Laag/TempCtl (WALZENBREW)
  Heineken!?!? ("Dave Draper")
  Deeed by Gott (dludwig)
  Burner data (claytonj)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:11:44 -0500 From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit) Subject: Propane vs Natural Gas / Mashing in Oven - OK? The propane/NG thread seems to still be going strong, so I thought I'd jump into the fray. I used to live in a house with a propane-fired stove. The previous resident also had a propane-fired clothes dryer. The tanks were outside, and the gas company came by once a month or so to top off the tanks, and read the meter. (I only bought the gas I used, the gas company owned the gas that was in the tanks.) It worked pretty much the same as with users of natural gas. We had no problems cooking with propane. I don't believe the use of propane indoors is a problem, as long as it is used properly. As others have noted, many of the stoves built for outdoor use produce CO. Clearly, the indoor models shouldn't do that. One key point with my previous setup was that the gas was kept outside, so any leaks in the tank (there were none) would not result in indoor build ups. Clearly, any gas system, propane or NG, should not leak. Any unit must be used as it was intended. Anyone who uses an outdoor burner indoors, even if near a window or other vent is crazy. But, I also believe, with the proper equipment, propane can be used indoors. ************************************* Reagrding mashing in an oven - can it be done? I am planning to move from extract/specialty grain to partial mashes. For a variety of reasons, I am not planning to go all grain, but do want to use a few pounds of regular malt in my brewing. I am thinking about putting crushed grain in a pot with warm water, and putting it in the oven at 155 deg or so. After about an hour, I would strain with hot water, like I currently do with specialty grain. Will this work? I am also considering buying a mini lauter tun, and putting it in the oven. Is this idea any good? Thanks for any input on these ideas. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Hewit Eat a live toad first thing in the morning, Midlothian, Virginia and nothing worse will happen to you for the rest of the day. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 08:26:00 PST From: "Sharon Hutchinson-Assess.Co-rd" <shutchin at msmail.christian.k12.ky.us> Subject: Christmas Shopping for a Homebrewer Hello, I am the wife of a homebrewer---it's a long story but I am responsible for getting my husband "hooked" on brewing. I would like to get him something every homebrewer wants for Christmas. I would appreciate any ideas or your list of "top 10 gift ideas for your favorite homebrewer". He already subscribes to many of the "beer" magazines. Please e-mail any gift ideas to shutchin at christian.k12.ky.us or srhutch at aol.com Thank you for helping me with my Christmas shopping. Sharon Hutchinson Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:28:32 -0500 (EST) From: GKING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: stratification In HBD #1894 Dave Draper <david.draper at mq.edu.au> wrote: >Just to throw in a monkey wrench: if you take a container full of >poorly sorted spheres (i.e. big range of grain sizes) and just shake >it around, the big ones will rise to the top and "float" on the >smaller ones. You *can* try this at home, kids! This has nothing to do with lautering, but it is interesting. Not only is the situation Dave describes true, it even makes sense if you think about it. It's much easier for smaller spheres to slip down through the empty spaces between larger spheres than for the opposite to occur. While the container is being shaken, the smaller spheres continue to fall downward through the larger spheres until the empty spaces become too small to slip through. The net effect of this sorting is to shift of the center of mass (or center of gravity, if you prefer) of the spheres to a lower point, reducing the total gravitational energy of the spheres. - --Greg King Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:22:36 +0500 ET From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us> Subject: brew club drinking & driving Way-back-when I posted to the digest relating some concerns of my fellow brewclub members. The concern arose when I suggested to my club that we post information concerning the whens and wheres of our meetings and brew sessions on our web page. Some of the members felt that the local police could find out about these meetings from the internet and stake them out to harrass members as they leave. I was curious if some of you out there would have similar concerns, or if you felt the members were overreacting. I only received two responses, both of a similar nature, which seemed to indicate that I did not make myself clear in my original post. Following is comments made by one of my responders along with my responses to "HIM>". I hope this clears things up. HIM> I hope your discussions concluded that this concern is like the plant HIM> operators at Chernobyl worrying that they might get caught for HIM> releasing radioactivity and working to cover their tails instead of HIM> stopping the problem. Drinking and driving is a problem that kills HIM> tens of thousands of people each year in the U.S. alone and maims HIM> hundreds of thousands. You probably know someone who has been HIM> personally affected by this. me> Your comments are very similar to the comments made by the other me> responder. However, I think perhaps I did not make myself clear in the me> original posting. The concern expressed by my fellow club members was NOT me> that they would get caught drinking and driving. On the contrary, I would me> say that most of the club members are responsible drinkers and that they me> try to keep tabs on how much they consume, keeping in mind that they will me> need to drive home. These club meetings involve tasting/sampling beer me> often times while eating food, not chugging a beer-bong. me> I think the concern that they were expressing is that they don't want me> to be harrassed by cops simply because the cops think that they are me> driving drunk. It would be like cops sitting outside of a local bar and me> stopping people as they leave to see if they are drunk (which they do me> sometimes). Let's face it, getting stopped by a cop and being asked to me> submit to a breath-a-lyzer or walk a straight line would be a *major* me> PITA, regardless of whether (especially if?) you are innocent or not. me> I think being harrassed was their concern. me> The purpose of my post was to see if anybody feels that this is a real me> concern. I, for one, don't see the cops doing such a thing. HIM> Your club will do homebrewing a much greater service if you arrange HIM> for carpooling or taxis for your meetings than if you keep the HIM> details vague on a web site. me> I agree. But the reality is that people would simply not come if they me> were bound to the schedule of a carpool or if they had to pay for a taxi. me> And people live too far apart for a carpool to be practical or for me> sharing a taxi to be an option. For example, I live 30 minutes away from me> downtown Charlotte, NC, which is where our meetings and brew sessions are. me> And we also have members from South Carolina. People would rather come me> and go as they please, in their own car, and try to be responsible about me> how much they consume. So far this has been successful (knock on wood). Comments and criticisms are welcome. Keith Royster - NC DEHNR - Mooresville, NC, USA Voice: (704) 663-1699 x252 Fax: (704) 663-6040 email: KRoyster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us etalk: KRoyster at ws21.mro.ehnr.state.nc.us Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:31:36 -0500 From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> Subject: RE: Propane use / inside cooking want exhaust system. In Homebrew Digest #1897 (November 30, 1995) Denis Barsalo wrote: >Denis Barsalo wrote: ... > >Then Bob McCowan wrote: >>Does converting a cajun cooker to NG really make it safe to use inside? Is >>propane always unsafe? Seems to me that many rural houses cook with propane >>and the inhabitants are not dying of CO poisoning. > > The problem as I understand it is not a CO issue but more the fact >that propane is heavier than air. Any slight leak or unburned fuel will >collect in the basement of your house. Sooner or later, an open flame will >ingnite it and then *BOOM*! > >Denis Barsalo I've used an NG converted Cajun Cooker indoors for most of a year. I have a CO detector (color change sort) in the vicinity which has never shown any indication of CO. It clearly burns a lot cleaner w/ NG than with Propane in terms of sooty deposits, and probably cleaner combustion gases too (fewer hydrocarbons, more CO2 & water). The NG is 'somewhat' safer than the propane version because of the cleaner combustion, the smaller flame and lower BTU rating. You can still kill yourself and blow up your home w/ natural gas almost as well as with propane. There is still a very real danger in using ANY high BTU burner indoors, since all combustion uses oxygen. It's quite possible to imagine someone suffering from lack of oxygen by using one of these in a closed space w/ poor ventilation. Also there is the obvious danger of having a large open flame in an enclosed indoor space. IMO an NG converted Cajun is 'relatively' safe to use indoors, but I would NEVER run it unattended or w/o lots of ventilation. Contact you home fire loss insurer or local fire department for an alternate point of view. - -- One issue that never seems to come up in discussions of indoor brewing is that all water lost during the boil recondenses in the interior of your home. If I brew in the cold months in my basement, this effectively means that something around 1 gallon of water condenses and drops from my cold water pipes which run around 40F during the winter. Tho' I personally like the rain forest effect, my SO doesn't and I am banished to the unheated garage precisely at the time of year when outdoor brewing is least appealing. If someone has a plan for an effective exhaust vent system this problem as well as the combustion gas problem would both be reduced. Stevea Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:06:34 -0500 From: gi572 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul D. Wiatroski) Subject: Fritz vs Jim - Again I've tried to stay out of this thread, but I guess I'm being sucked in. I'm not trying to defend or slam either Jim's or Fritz's business practices, but I do want to relay what I've read and experienced. . >Ken Schroeder asks: Can anybody cite the last litigation for the Steam >name brought on by Fritz? . Ken, I don't remember reading about any litigation for the Steam name, but I do remember reading about Fritz threatening to suit someone in New Jersey for using the name Liberty Brewing for a brewpub. Apparently the name is too close to Liberty Ale. . As far as: . > Then the guy tries to buy us off with gimmicks like his contest and >his stale hops sale. . The hops I received from SA were both fresh and of excellent quality. This was also the experience of several friends. . Just my 2 cents worth. . Paul Wiatroski Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 11:48:56 PST From: dhvanvalkenburg at CCGATE.HAC.COM Subject: DMS in Lagers Rob Reed asserts that the cause of DMS in Lagers is caused somehow by the malt. I am not sure the roll malt plays, but I have read somewhere (I'm sorry I can't remember the source; think it may be G. Fixx) that a contributing factor to DMS is high starting temperatures. I can confirm that I have experienced very high DMS in lagers when I pitched the yeast while it was still cooling down. I thought it would get it off to a quick start if I pitched it at 85-90 and proceeded to cool it down. The result was a drinkable beer when it was young, but very high DMS after it aged. Don Van Valkenburg dhvanvalkenburg at ccgate.hac.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot at PEAK.ORG> Subject: Home brewers in Safford, Arizona? Greetings. Some friends of mine who are living in Safford, Arizona have recently started home brewing. They are looking for other people in the area who brew. They do not have internet access, so I thought I would do them a favor and post something for them. If anyone in the Safford area knows of a home brewing club or home brewing non-entity, would you please email me so I can pass the information along. Thanks -mark taratoot at peak.org Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Dec 95 04:47:00 -0800 From: LARSEN_JIM at Tandem.COM Subject: mills and filters In HBD1897, James Hojel <Jtroy at msn.com> wrote: >Does anyone know if the JS Malt Mill that has been talked about so much is the same one as the Malt Mill in the Brewers Resource catalog? They are different products. >If not, does anyone have any input on the BR mill v. JS mill? I own a Schmidling MALTMILL (one word) and am very happy with it. (Beats the pants off the Corona I used to use.) I have no experience with the Brewers resource mill. Also in HBD1897, Jim Bush <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote: >Im interested in filters for homebrewers. Announce you are serving Bud Ice Dry Lite, and no other beverages. This will filter out most homebrewers. Jim larsen_jim at tandem.com jal at gonix.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:16:10 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu> Subject: I FLUBBED Yesterday I posted that Hart Brewing made Full Sail. I want to apologize for that. It is Hart Brewing that is coming to Berkeley (when I still do not know), and they brew Pyramid. I was just in Oregon for Thanksgiving, and was surrounded by Full Sail. My slip. Thanks to all that replied and let me know what's what. If anyone has any knowledge of the new brewery in Berkeley, I am still interested. I am also interested in any "Country wine" recipes that grandfathers or grandmothers may have made. If you feel like passing those recipes along, please do. Doug Thomas thomasd at uchastings.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 15:18:45 EST From: gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Subject: thread21 file repair program Greetings All, Back in September I posted to the HBD about a problem with the Thread21 file search program. I also reported the location of a program (lfcrlf11.zip) that would fix the files that were downloaded from unix based systems and allow Thread21 to read those files. I have recently been informed that those locations can no longer be accessed. Stephen Hansen loaded the file into the archives for me: >I've placed the file lfcrlf11.zip in the thread program directory: >/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/programs/thread. Thanks Steve. The program is a DOS based, pkzipped program. When unzipped there is a read.me file that explains how to use the files. If you have any questions drop me an e-mail. Good luck and hoppy brewing! Steve Gravel Newport, Rhode Island gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil "Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 14:21:32 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: stinking fridge/corn sugar priming Guy writes: >to wash it out the vanilla extract and water. When I asked the future spousal >unit if the drip pan had been cleaned she responded with "What drip pan?". >The sucker was encrusted with stuffs (sorry to the technical language) and I >think that and drain hole may have been the problem. So now its off to the >land of lagers. A summary of ideas follows : If the smell had been embedded in the plastic lining of the fridge, I have another solution to add to the list. Take the fridge outside, remove the door and point it at the sun for a few days. Sunlight will not only wipe out the smell, but also will bleach out the stains from mould. This worked for me on a picnic cooler, so I can't see why it won't work on a fridge. It's just a little harder to carry outside. Remove the door off the hinges so you don't trap any little kids. *** Doug writes: >I have to disagree with this. I can _always_ tell by taste when a >batch was primed with corn sugar. Even 1/2 cup to prime a 5 gallon >batch leaves a winey taste signature that detracts from the beer's >quality. It was for this reason that I used DME to prime (back in the >olden days when I still carbonated that way...). I have to disagree with Doug on this. Glucose is a part of all worts. Glucose and fructose together are typically 8.9% of the wort and sucrose is another 5.5% (MBS, p.268). I mention sucrose because yeast can't eat sucrose diretly, so they release invertase which breaks the sucrose into its component glucose and fructose molecules. When you consider the typical homebrewer's wort is, let's say 1.050 and that 1/2 cup of corn sugar is about 2.5 ounces, that 1/2 cup of corn sugar adds about 0.0015 to the gravity of the beer. That's 3%. This is such a small increase in glucose content that I can't believe that anything except a HPLC can tell the difference. Furthermore, excessive refined sugars have been blamed for *cidery* flavors, not winey. Winey tastes have been attributed to higher alcohols (Terry Foster, Zymurgy Troubleshooting SI, 1987), but Philippe Perpette (studying for his phD in brewing in Belgium, I believe) at his Spirit of Belium talk last year said that glucose actually *reduced* the production of higher alcohols! [Gosh, I just scared myself.] Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 14:28:55 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Re: What's Your Point Al?/soil science and runnings I'm sorry if this comes through twice, but I found a typo in the first version and cancelled it two days ago and still no sign in the HBD, so I guess that I correctly cancelled it. In any event: I wrote: >Incidentally, the drawings in the Brewing Techniques articles look hauntingly >similar to ones I drew (in ascii art) and posted to HBD on October 26, 1992. To which John responded: >If you will remember, we exchanged email on this very subject. The day after I >submitted my article to Brewing Techniques, I was browsing at The Brewery Web >Page and found your 1992 post listed there in the Technical Library. I >IMMEDIATELY emailed you and mentioned the similarity of the drawings to what >was going to appear in BT. You Thanked me for notifying you of the coincidence >and said that you would have indeed been upset to have seen those illustrations >without any reference to your previous post, assuming that they were the >source. I explained that I had not joined the HBD until the following spring >and had never seen your post until (today). I thought we ended the 4 post >exchange with the understanding that I had not plagiarized your work. Do you >wish to re-visit that discussion via your statement above, or is it merely a >misunderstanding over a poorly worded afterthought? A bad day, actually. I wanted to discuss this with John before posting a reply and, in fact, that's what I should have done before I made the initial, rather underhanded, post. My recollection of the email exchange was that John said he would add a reference to my post in his article. I finally got caught up on my reading BT and came across John's article. When I didn't see any reference to my post, I was a little hurt. That, combined with a bad day and not enought sleep resulted in my adding the stab at John at the end of my post. In private email, John and I just discussed what happened and all is well. So I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly appologize to John and to the HBD community for wasting all this bandwidth. *** On a related note, just to try to add something brewing related, John writes: >With a properly saturated, fluid mash, the grist will stratify (not sure if >thats the proper term...) such that the heavier particles and husks will >settle toward the bottom providing the filter bed. Greg Noonan has a >illustration of this in his book, Brewing Lager Beer. If you stir your mash >during, you will facilitate this alluvial stratification (any soil >scientists in the house? Dave?). Dave responds: >Well, I am not a soil scientist, but actually soil is not the best >analogy. Deposition on the bottom of a river or lake would be >better. Hell, I'm not a sedimentologist either! But: stratify is >indeed the proper term there John; While a soil scientist may not be the right person to talk to regarding the stratification, I believe that a soil scientist would be the right person to talk to regarding the channelling that may occur during runoff. I talked to my dad (a civil engineer) about this before my, now infamous, post from October 1992 and he's the one who told me about channelling. I mentioned channelling again in some more recent posts in which I said that stirring the mash only increases channelling. Think about it: if you stick a knife or spoon into a mash and cut a "gorge" into it, the sparge water above the mash will pour into this "gorge" you created. Once the flow begins down this path (a sort of mini 3-D river in the grain bed), this is now the path of least resistance and the sparge water will tend to take this path down to the outlet -- whatever it's design or configuration. I think there are two issues here: 1) the layout of grain in the mash tun and 2) the course that runnings take as they travel from the top to the outlet of the lauter tun. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that the sorting of the grain particles is not as compleat as Greg Noonan has pictured. I know I posted about this some time in 1995, but I can't think of what to search for. Any way, the point is that initially, there may be *some* stratification but, as Dave said in his post, the particles will, for the most part, be poorly sorted. As we take runnings, the smallest particles near the outlet will get washed out (that's the cloudy runnings). Larger pieces will get trapped by the screen, perforated bottom, whatever. Smaller particles *higher up* in the grain bed will be trapped by the larger pieces that are now forming the beginnings of the filter bed. If we indeed had to wait until all the large pieces were at the bottom, followed by medium-sized pieces, followed by the small pieces, then we would be recirculating for hours. Perhaps more ascii art. In the following drawings, the two tuns represent the same tun at the beginning of the runoff and a short while after that. The a, b, c and d represent small particles of husk, acrospire and other small pieces of insoluble stuff: initial a short while later | | | | |\,\.\.\.\,/.\,./\,\.//,\\.//,/| |,.\/\,''/\,./\'/,.\'/,.\'/,\.'| |,.\/,.\\/\/\\/\,./\\/./,\./,\/| |,/.\\,///.\,//.\,\/\\,.//,\/\.| |,.\/,.\\/\/\\/\,./\\/./,\c/,\/| |,/.\,\.\,\,.\,\.\,.\,.\,.\,\,.| |\,\.\.\.\,/d\,./\,\.//,\\.//,/| |,.\/\,''/\,./\'/,.\'/,.\'/,\.'| |,.\\,'.\,',\\.''\\,'.\\,'/\,'.| |,\,\.\,\,.\,\.\,.\,.\,.\,\,.\.| |\,\.\.\.\,/.\,./\,\.//,\\.//,/| |\\,\.\,\,.\,\.\,.\,.\,.\,\,.\'| |,.\/,a\\/\/\\/\b./\\/./,\//,\/| |,/.\\,///d\,//.\,\/\\,c//,\/\.| |\,\.\.\.\,/.\,./\,\.//,\\\//,/| |\\\\/\/\//\/\/\\/\,/\/\\/\//\'| |,.\/,.\\/\/\\/\,./\\/./,\./,\/| |\/\\\,///\\,//\\/\/\\\\//\\/\/| ------------------------------ ------------------------------ a b I do think we need a soil scientist to verify if this can be modeled and then coded to test various designs. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:18:45 -0500 From: IHomeBrew at aol.com Subject: Re: Full Sail in Berkeley? in #1898, Doug wrote: > Just recently, Hart Brewing co applied for permits to build a 30,000 sq > ft brewery in Berkeley CA ... wanted to know if ... they will be brewing > Full Sail or doing a new set of brews. I think that there may be a few legal squabbles if Hart Brewing starts brewing Full Sail because Full Sail Ales are not brewed by Hart Brewing in the first place. Hart Brewing brews Pyramid and Thomas Kemper beers out of Kalama (WA), Seattle (WA), and Polusbo (WA). Full Sail Ales are brewed in Hood River (OR) and Portland (OR) and from what I know, there is no connection between the two breweries. "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." -- Ronald Reagan Clark Ritchie, Tacoma, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:42:44 -0800 From: anonymous-remailer at shell.portal.com Subject: Dilution responses, Special-B in Scotch Ale?, Multiple Starters, Cal. Lager Yeast? Thanks for all the responses about high gravity fermentation with a dilution in the secondary! Out of 10 replies I recieved, about half said that they had done so in the past with no problem and half said "no way dude". The negative responders brought up the point that higher primary fermentation would produce more esters and fusil alcohols. Because the final product will be a Mild Ale, I don't belive these effects will be large enough for concern. The SG for primary will only be around 1.064 or so which is the same gravity I get for my strong brown ale. Actually a few extra esters in a mild would be welcome. The problems would probably be magnified at higher SGs though. Any more thoughts on the subject? (Looks like I'll be trying it after Christmas.) ============================================================================== I recently made a Scotch Ale using a little Special-B (2oz.) and some peated malt (4oz.). Not enough smoky flavor and a weird rasiny taste. I've gotten the raisin flavor from Special-B before but only when I used half a pound in a light ale. The peated malt seems to have magnified it quite a bit. This was the first time I've used peated malt so I think I used way to little. Has anyone else had similar results mixing the two? ============================================================================== A yeast "trick" that a friend and I use to stretch the scarce dollar is to make multiple starters from one pack of liquid yeast and trade them. We make up a few pints of wort, split it among 3 or 4 starter jugs, inoculate one, then mix between all of them. This makes several small starters that we step up and use. I've not had any problems keeping starters that go dormant for up to a month. About a week before using one, I add fresh wort and get it going well before brew day. (I also repitch into the secondary to get more batches per packet.) So far everything works well. (Well, I told you I was frugal!!! :-) ============================================================================== Can anyone tell me how well the Wyeast Cal. Lager yeast at lower temps? I know it does well up to the mid 60's but don't know how low it will go. Does it have good lager characteristics in the low 50's? ============================================================================= Thanks in advance! Tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu Butte, Montana Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 13:51:51 PST From: ed.lingel at bangate1.TEK.COM Subject: elevated conditioning, quality, sparging, fritz and jim, Hart Peter Maxwell writes: |I'd be interested to know if anyone has experience with elevated temperatures |after bottling. What would be the effect of, for example, leaving the bottles |at 80F immediately after bottling, to speed up carbonation? Sometimes my |ales take up to 3 weeks to properly carbonate at 68F. Would the elevated |temperatures produce undesired flavors? I wouldn't recommend it. While it can help speed up carbonation it can also speed up oxidation. Beers I've tasted that used this method to speed up carbonation often tasted cardboardy. - --------- Russell Mast writes: |I assert that there IS such a thing as "quality" which is independant from |considerations of "individual taste" difference. "Quality" means different things to different people. From discussions I've read on the HBD (not necessarily in Russell's post), for many people "quality" means "I like the taste". Since tastes vary between individuals, arguing about "quality" is pointless. - --------- A. J. deLange writes: ..(excellent advice deleted)... |Check the gravity in the kettle before and towards the end of |the boil and add as much water as is neceseeary or lengthen the boil as |necessary to hit the target volume and gravity at the end of the boil. In |doing this make allowance for any water you will use to sparge the hops. If you rinse the hops (isn't that an inappropriate use of the term "sparge"?) you'll end up with the hot break material in the fermenter. I've always tried to keep the hot break out of the fermenter, but are you saying it doesn't matter? - --------- Ken Schroeder writes: |I think what Brian missed is that Fritz claims the name Steam. More than that, "Steam" is so closely associated with "Anchor" that many believe the name of the company is Anchor Steam Brewing Co. |koch appears to want to litigate competition out of business. |Fritz helps build competition (Sierra Nevada, Mendicino, Mad River, Albion, |ect). I must have missed something here. Both are trying to protect names they are using (or plan to use?). I don't think either is trying to put anyone out of business. But what has Fritz done to build competition? |Can anybody cite the last |litigation for the Steam name brought on by Fritz? I can't. How about a litigation for another name Anchor claims: Liberty. When a small microbrewery in Oregon was just getting started they planned on calling it Liberty Brewing Company (in fact this name still exists in some brewery lists on the net). Anchor lawyers didn't feel that would be a good idea, since people may confuse Liberty Brewing products with Anchor Liberty ale. Liberty Brewing was convinced to change its name to Saxer Brewing Company. |The brewing |business, at least at the smaller levels, is more a brotherhood. Brewers help |brewers, drink each other's beer, seek advice and judgment on beer and |business matters. Fritz plays the game in this mamnner. koch, simply put, |violates this brotherhood. In what way? By suing people that use beer names similar to his? How is this different than what Fritz (or Bert Grant, or Pyramid, or others) has done? |Then the guy tries to buy us off with gimmicks like his contest and |his stale hops sale. No matter what Boston Brewing Co does, people are going to accuse them of having ulterior motives. - --------- Doug Thomas writes: |Just recently, Hart Brewing co applied for permits to build a 30,000 sq |ft brewery in Berkeley CA. There were some problems, but now that is all |cleared up. I just wanted to know if anyone had heard of when the new |brewery was supposed to be coming in and if they will be brewing Full |Sail or doing a new set of brews. Hart Brewing Co brews Pyramid ales and Thomas Kemper lagers. Full Sail beers are brewed by Full Sail Brewing Company. - --------- Ed Lingel, Portland OR ed.lingel at tek.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:15:53 -0800 From: snellis at hooked.net (Steve Nellis) Subject: Brew Schools Greetings fellow brewers- After months of consideration, I've decided to go back to school. I am seeking advice on Brewery Schools. I've read the reviews of the various brew-schools that have been featured in _Brewing Techniques_. Because I live fairly close to Davis, Ca., the American Brewer's Guild is the most likely choice. From what I could glean from the article; they train you for 4 weeks in classes, then apprentice you out to a brewery for 5 more weeks. A final week of classes follows the apprenticeship period. Questions: Has anyone gone to this establishment? What are the employment possibilities and expected salary ranges? Would having a degree/certificate/training be required or is it possible to apprentice with a brewery, then maybe go to school? Are there any other Brewery Schools in the greater SF Bay area? I desire to work in a brewery, but not as just full-time menial labor. Don't get me wrong... I rather enjoy hard work...it makes the beer taste better. But I can do more. I also realize that this a brewing forum and not a career-guidance group. There are plenty of smart and experienced brewers out there who are doing this professionally. I guess I wanna know how they *did it*. Any replies would be greatly appreciated. Private e-mail preferred as I don't wish to waste bandwidth with something like this. Again, thank you. - -- steve nellis snellis at hooked.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:55:10 -0800 From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Riverside Brew Spots? Greetings: A buddy and I will be in Riverside, California next week. Anyone know of a good spot for great beer? We'll be staying near the University. I'm in the mood for a good Brown Sky Brown Ale, or something similar. Thanks -- Randy Randy Erickson Modesto Irrigation District Modesto, California Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 18:59:37 -0500 From: WALZENBREW at aol.com Subject: Stuck Corks/Laag/TempCtl Another method of removing a stuck stopper is to use a cloth napkin. This is an old trick for removing corks from empty wine bottles. The method is to fold the napkin into a tube around the corner (corner is in the center) and insert it into the carboy. By shaking the carboy, position the cork on the napkin such that it's surrounded by the napkin, and slowly pull it out. May be easier to get it out small side first. Never done this with a carboy, but it works great for wine bottle salvage. On Laaglander dry malt: Been using it for about seven years with great results. Never had any noticable problems with off-flavors due to the malt. As far as a high terminal gravity, never noticied any difference between Laadlander DLME and, say, Briess Brewers Gold Dry or Munton & Fison Dried Light when these were substituted for Laaglander in the same multi-malt recipes. Don't know about any added dextrose, but if there is any in there it hasn't been possible to taste it, even in 100% Laaglander extract lagers. On Temperature Controls: Three basic choices: Williams Brewing mechanical control, the Hunter AirStat, and the Brewers Resource digital control, which also can control a heater. All will work, but the Williams will require an additional thermometer (max/min recording is best), the Hunter only goes down to 40 degrees without modifying the probe, and the Brewers Resource unit, which is functionally the best, is also the most expensive. Williams Unit: $59 from Williams Brewing, 2594 Nicholson St, San Leandro, CA 94577, 1-800-759-6025 Hunter AirStat: $35 or so from a number of mail-order sources - check the ads in your favorite homebrew mag. If they advertise a "digital override control" or something similar in this price range you can bet it's this unit. Note that this unit isn't made anymore; these units are being sold until the supply runs out. Brewers Resource FermTemp: $89.90 from Brewers Resource, 409 Calle San Pablo #104, Camarillo, CA 93012, 1-800-827-3983 If you use a freezer or an old single-door fridge from the 1950s, note that these can freeze a carboy solid if the override control fails (made a great, but unintentional, "icebock" this way once). A good idea is to use the internal control as a failsafe - do a test with the internal control set to it's lowest position and measure how cold it gets. If it gets below 35 degrees and no colder than 28 it won't freeze up your carboy if the override control fails, but it'll still work OK to lager. Set to a setting that gives this temp range before connecting up your override control. Cheers, Greg Walz Pittsburgh, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:50:14 +10 From: "Dave Draper" <david.draper at mq.edu.au> Subject: Heineken!?!? Dear Friends, those of you who have been around awhile will remember that Ulick Stafford used to quote Dennis Hopper in _Blue Velvet_ in his signature line: "Heineken?!?!? F&%$ that s# at $! Pabst Blue Ribbon!!!" If any of you would like that sound clip, it is currently available on my Sounds web page...just go to the URL in the sig below and follow your nose to the Sounds section in "Other films". Sorry for the marginal beer relevance. Cheers, Dave in Sydney "Why am I typing when I could be brewing?" ---Gary Bell - --- *************************************************************************** David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper ...I'm not from here, I just live here... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:02:19 -0500 From: dludwig at ameritel.net Subject: Deeed by Gott > From: winters at ICD.Teradyne.COM (Ed Winters ) > Subject: Mash tun/Specialty Grains?/Propane > > Mash Tun > I bought a round Gott cooler for my mashing when I began all-grain several > years ago. It was a disaster! I believed I could just simply add boiling > water to increase the temp.... How do you > "cooler" users add heat to the mash? Hot tap water and boiling water works; in the right proportions. I use a 5 gal Gott and usually use 10 lbs of grains for a 5 gal batch. I'm still zeroing in on a procedure but for my last batch (a porter), I used 10 lbs grains, added 1.5 gal hot tap water (127 deg F) yielding 112 deg F mash followed by 2.5 gal <212 deg F water yielding 159 deg F! Too hot so I stirred frequently to get the temp down. My previous two wheat beer batches, I ended up too low on temp and just drew off a gallon or so of liquid, heated and re-added to the mash. It's just a matter of figuring out the right proportions of mass and heat. Point is, you can get there. Just takes a little experimenting. There have been several posts recently on controling/changing your mash heat. Search them out. - Dave in Southern, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:24:39 -0500 From: claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil Subject: Burner data Howdy, With all of the talk about converting burners from propane to natural gas, I thought I'd pass along info I learned in my quest for the perfect burner. My goal was to have a dual fuel burner to use natural gas for brewing in my garage and propane for brewing and cooking elsewhere. The guy at the propane distributor (great supply of burners, heaters and grill parts) explained the difference between jet burners and ring burners as: Jet burners use high pressure fuel and have usually one burner jet. They produce very high BTUs and are designed to be run full blast. They are not very efficient and produce a higher level of combustion byproducts, even more so when you try to throttle them down. Because the fuel needs to be "high pressure" (relative term of course) they can't be converted to natural gas which is regulated at the house gas meter. Ring burners use low pressure fuel and have a number of jets in the burner. The low pressure design allows the flame to be easily adjusted without losing much efficiency but they don't put out the high BTUs. The level of combustion byproducts is lower due to the better efficiency. The low pressure design allows it to be converted to natural gas by drilling a propane orifice to .035" (the regulated propane pressure is about the same as the household natural gas pressure). I purchased the Superb 35K BTU burner, which comes set up for propane and a second supply hose and control valve, with .035" orifice, to connect to the natural gas line in my garage. He said I could increase the diameter of the orifice a bit more if it wasn't hot enough. I got enough hose to boil outside in the summer and inside in the winter (windows open of course). I'm waiting until I get my boiling keg to try it out, so I do not yet know how it works. Hope this helps. Cheers, Joe Clayton Farmington Hills, Michigan USA ak753 at detroit.freenet.org (preferred) claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil (if you must) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1900, 12/04/95