HOMEBREW Digest #1927 Thu 04 January 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Glycerol/Yeast Storage (A. J. deLange)
  1st Wort Hopping / Outdoor Ventilation of burner (Bob McCowan)
  question re: Wyeast 1028 (GKING)
  New Brewers questions (gravels)
  Using Water Analysis / Batc ("John Hale")
  Chemistry to the Rescue! (Alan Richter)
  sour cherries for recipe ("Lee A. Kirkpatrick"                       )
  Naperville/Yeasty stuff (Dan McConnell)
  Sand Wedge from the Mash? (Brad Anesi)
  Glycerol (John W. Braue, III)
  Re: 1st wort hopping (Jeff Frane)
  Floating Cornelius keg liquid line dip tube (Steve Zabarnick)
  Leaking keg (GRMarkel)
  Re: Dark Mysteries; Hunter Airstat ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Hop Bitterness and Time (J. Todd Hoopes)
  Spare Hunter Airstat ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  Belgian Candi Sugar (John Wilkinson)
  Re: 1st Wort Hopping (Bill Rust)
  Bunch O' Stuff (KennyEddy)
  WYEAST Lag Times (Rob Reed)
  1st Wort Hopping (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Sagebrush powder ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
  The FIX mashing schedules or what's up with the malt? (Barry Browne)
  Irish moss and will it work for wine? (Douglas Thomas)
  Stoudt's yeast for Belgian double and tripel (HOUCK KEITH A)
  Kitchen Aid Grain Mill / Maerzen (Denis Barsalo)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:32:02 -0500 From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Glycerol/Yeast Storage There was a question about the toxicity of glycerol: Its a simple alcohol CH2(OH)CH(OH)CH2(OH) which is found at levels of up to 1.95 grams/litre in German beers and up to 3.4g/l in Canadian beers. Fair amounts of it are formed as a natural metabolic product during yeast growth and the cells excrete this into the wort. The Germans tweaked the process during WWI to increase the yield thus turning their beer producing industry into a source of glycerine for explosives. Thus it is not toxic. I wouldn't drink a bottle of it but a few grams in a 5 gallon batch (19l) would not raise the level appreciably above that which occurs naturally. But perhaps all this is moot. There has been discussion in rcb on long term storage of yeasts under distilled water. Many of you may have seen this but the basis is a paper (McGinnis,M.R., A.A. Padhye and L. Ajello, "Storage of Stock Cultures of Filamentous Fungi, Yeasts and Some Aerobic Actinomycetes in Sterile Distilled Water", Applied Microbiology, Aug 1974 pp 218-222 (VBol 28, No.2))in which the results of experiments of duration up to 4 years were conducted with a variety of fungi including S. cerevesiae. While the sample sizes reported were small (1 in each test), S. cerevesiae did survive up to 48 months. The cultures were prepared by simply scraping yeast from a slant, swirling in a tube of sterile distilled water and storing the tubes at room temperature on a lab shelf. Most of the yeast die but enough remain viable to restart the culture. This method is apparantly widely used in third world breweries where fancy equipment is not available. I first heard about this last June and immediately made up some cultures. They were still viable as of December. I haven't brewed with one of these yet but if things turn out so that the tyranny of slants in the refrigerator can be ended I, for one, will be most pleased. A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! ajdel at interramp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:15:17 -0500 From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com> Subject: 1st Wort Hopping / Outdoor Ventilation of burner A couple of questions on the 1st wort hopping: Are these hops added and the kettle filled completely befor the boil is started? - Is there a rest time befor starting the boil? If added early, do the 1st wort hops add their full bittering potential to the wort? If so, 1st wort hopping should reduce your total hop amount? As far as hoods and ventilation goes, don't forget that if you set up outside ventilation you need to supply fresh air as well. This may seem trivial but it's important. Example - we had a wet basement problem last fall and set up a window fan in a basement window to help provide air flow to dry things out. We opened the garage door to provide fresh air. At bedtime, however, I closed the garage door but forgot to turn off the fan. The air flow then came through the lowest flow impedance source - the chimney cleanout, which was left open by mistake. When the oil burner came on at 2:00 AM smoke was drawn from the chimney into the basement, setting off the smoke alarm. Took us a while to figure out just what had happened. Moral: if you're going to provide a high-volume ventilation, provide a high-volume fresh-air source. Bob Bob McCowan bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 10:31:32 -0500 (EST) From: GKING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: question re: Wyeast 1028 Dear HBD Collective, I recently brewed a light-bodied bitter, using Wyeast 1028 London yeast for the first time. The resulting ale has a very yeasty flavor. While I like the flavor, it is on the strong side. In fact, the yeast flavor dominates the total flavor profile. I have some theories about why this happened: 1) Fermentation temperature (70-75 F) was too high? 2) The yeast flavor would be less noticeable in a "bigger" beer? (this batch: OG = 1.047, FG = 1.007) 3) Bad combination of fermentables? (5.5# malt extract, 1# honey, 1/4 cup molasses) 4) Wyeast 1028 always produces yeasty-tasting ales? I would prefer for the next batch to have a less yeasty flavor, so that the hops will dominate. Any suggestions on how this can be accomplished will be appreciated (feel free to confirm or shoot down my theories). TIA, Greg King gking at arserrc.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 10:36:26 EST From: gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Subject: New Brewers questions Hi All, I'm not an expert brewer but I think I've learned quite a lot reading this digest and have experienced a lot through numerous extract/specialty grain batches, enough to answer a few newbie questions and give the heavies a break. John asks: >I brewed my first batch of beer last Saturday, Congratulations! >an all-malt amber from a kit. I have some questions Hope you can >help. >1. When boiling, is it necessary to cover the boil?? I have 4 >books and only 1 of the book mentions covering the boil. There have been several suggestions regarding covering the boil, and I think the most agreed upon answer is: don't cover the pot if you have vigorous boil, however, if the boil isn't very vigorous (especially if boiling on the stove) then you should leave it covered for the bulk of the boil, uncovering it for the last 15 minutes. You get the best hop utilization and hot break when you achieve a good vigorous boil. It is more detrimental to the wort if you don't achieve this than it is to worry about the possibility of nasties (technical term) falling back into the pot. The last 15 minutes uncovered should take care of any unwanted nasties boiling away. >2. When transferring to the fermenter, should you use a >strainer? I used a strainer and trapped about a cup of mud-like >matter, maybe the hops?? Using a strainer is not necessarily a requirement, although I always do, if you are using a prehopped extract kit. However, it is a good idea to strain out any whole or pellet hops along with the hot break material (which is probably the mud like substance that you saw, along with some hop residuals) when transferring to the primary fermenter. If you are going to strain the wort you need to make sure that the temperature is 80F or below before straining. If you strain while it is hot you can cause HSA (Hot Side Aeration) in your beer. This doesn't mean that the beer is ruined it may just have an off flavor. Sometimes, it is not very easy for a newbie to cool the wort while it is still in the brew pot, (you need a wort chiller, a must, in my opinion, an ice bath works too) so, if it is still hot, you can carefully transfer the wort to the fermenter either by racking or slowly pouring without splashing. You shouldn't strain at this point. In my opinion your beer won't be affected by the trub left in the bottom of the fermenter. You can always rack from the primary fermenter to a secondary fermenter (read glass carboy) and leave all of the junk (technical term) behind. >3. I pitched the yeast and after 4-5 hours I noticed occasional >air bubbles in the air lock. During the next 36 hours there was >a constant stream of air bubbles in the air lock, but after that >it has subsided to almost nothing. Could it be done?? Should I >do anything, or just wait a bit?? Your fermentation is probably done. If you have a hydrometer check the Specific Gravity, it should be in the 1.007-1.013 range for a simple kit. In that case it is probably done. If you don't have a hydrometer, taste it. Is it sweet or does it taste semidry like you expected? If it is sweet, you should probably let it sit for a few more days. Make sure that the room is warm, around 65 degrees F should do. It is always easy to let it sit a while longer to make sure that it has stopped fermenting. The most important thing to remember is DON'T WORRY! You can make some pretty good beer with the basic techniques. This forum is a great way to learn, sometimes it gets rather technical, and some enjoy that, but it doesn't have to be. You will learn what works best for you as you brew and read this digest and your beer will be better for it. Good luck, and Hoppy brewing! Steve Gravel Newport, Rhode Island gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil "Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!" \\\^/// \0 0/ - -------------------------ooOo--(_)--oOoo---------------------------- U Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Jan 1996 09:32:26 -0500 From: "John Hale" <john.hale at qm.sprintcorp.com> Subject: Using Water Analysis / Batc I'm in the process of evaluating the results of my first all-grain brewing session and I have a couple of questions: 1. I recently received a water analysis report from my city that uses mg/L as the units of measure rather than PPM. Is there a standard conversion factor to help me make use of this info? 2. I'm using a 10 gal Gott cooler with a Phil's Phalse Bottom for my mash/lauter tun. Is there a problem with adding all the sparge water at once? I was careful not to disturb the grain bed during pouring and the sparge seemed to go OK. As long as the output flow is kept to a trickle, is there a problem with keeping the grain in contact with the sparge water for a longer period of time? Thanks to all for a great forum! John Hale john.hale at qm.sprintcorp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 07:16:04 -0500 (EST) From: Alan Richter <arichter at haven.ios.com> Subject: Chemistry to the Rescue! Even though I've been a Chemist for quite some time, the things you can do with a little chemistry still amaze me. This was very true recently and here's the story... I brewed a batch of Christmas Spiced Ale. As part of the recipe, I added 2 cups of maple syrup at the end of the boil. After having added the syrup, I decided to taste it. METALIC!!! Apparantly the syrup had been sitting in the can long enough to leach some of the metal. Of course, at that point all I could do is pray that the metalic taste didn't show up in the finished Ale. Well, sometimes praying isn't enough! The Ale had the worst metalic taste I had ever encountered. Talk about Is My Beer Ruined! Here's where the chemistry comes in. There are coumpounds, called sequesterants, whose function is to grab onto and render harmless various metal ions. One, known as calcium disodium EDTA is approved by the FDA for use in malt beverages (something about anti-gushing). This particular sequesterant is good at grabbing onto iron in solution, so I thought it might be worth a try. Especially because I have access to FOOD GRADE (very important!) material. I added 20 ppm to my batch (20 ppm = 20 mg/Kg of beer), waited a bit, then tasted. What an unbelievable difference! The metalic taste, which had been bad enough that I considered dumping the batch, was gone. The batch was rescued!! So, the moral of the story is 'better beer through chemistry'. By the way, Ca Na2 EDTA is approved for malt beverages upto a maximum of 25 ppm. If you try this at home, you MUST use food grade material such as Versene CA from Dow. Otherwise you are contaminating your batch with things nastier than iron. I can't tell how to get some, except to suggest finding a friend in the food or beverage business or perhaps asking Dow for a sample. If your interested in the FDA reg., I believe its 21 CFR 172.30. Alan F. Richter arichter at haven.ios.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 11:35 EST From: "Lee A. Kirkpatrick" <WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU> Subject: sour cherries for recipe Apologies if this has been discussed recently, but I haven't been able to keep up with the list the last couple of months. I want to make Papazian's Cherry Fever Stout, which calls for sour and/or choke cherries. Turns out these things are a bear to find, at least in mid-winter. I've been to all my local supermarkets, checked on special ordering possibilities, surfed the web for fruit vendors, etc., and haven't been able to locate any. Does anyone know where I can obtain (e.g., by mail order) either fresh or (more likely) frozen cherries of one or the other type? The closest thing I've found in the store is CANNED "tart" cherries. I bought a can and brought them home to see what they were like (then threw them into a fruit salad so as not to waste). Like most canned fruits and vegetables, they seemed water-logged and lacking, well, freshness. This turned me off to the idea of using them in my beer, but then it occurred to me that for beer-making purposes maybe they would work okay anyway, especially if all the water/juice were used rather than drained. Does anybody have any experience and/or advice about this? If the canned ones would work well, they would certainly be the easiest and least expensive option. On the other hand, if they will make a second-rate cherry stout, I'd rather redouble my efforts to get the real thing and do it right. I'd appreciate any responses posted to the list or by private e-mail. Thanks much, and Happy New Year to everyone. - --Lee Kirkpatrick WPSSLAK at WMMVS.CC.WM.EDU P.S. I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone else who has made this beer or a similar one and has any other suggestions or advice to share about it. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:39:01 -0500 From: danmcc at umich.edu (Dan McConnell) Subject: Naperville/Yeasty stuff Steve asks about Chicago water > I recently moved to the Chicago Suburbs (Naperville). I've been >told that I don't have to worry about water treatment. Where I live >receives city water from Lake Michigan. Since you live in Naperville, I would suggest that you stop by the Taylor Brewing Co. The brewer is (I assume still) Ed Bronson and he should be able to answer your questions. =-=-=-=-= From: phust at unlinfo.unl.edu (patricia hust) Jim Hust wrote regarding his yeast: >It had a date of 12/20/95 on it and my >local homebrew supply retailer said that since it was that fresh there >would be no need to make a starter for greater volume. Jim, your yeast is fine, its your retailer that has a problem.......always make a starter. =-=-=-=-= For those that wrote (and those that didn't) regarding the availability of the Grizzly Peak yeast strain. No, it is not available. Other versions of Ringwood are. I have been contracted to evaluate and archive it for the brewer. I specifically agreed NOT to distribute this particular strain. Sorry. DanMcC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 08:42:37 -0800 From: BANESI at novell.com (Brad Anesi) Subject: Sand Wedge from the Mash? On Sat, 30 Dec 1995, jtf at carol.net (J. Thomas Foelber) wrote... Subject: Left-handed Sand Wedge > ... With this short notice I came up with a solution that worked great. >With a little bit of cleaning a junior left-handed sand wedge from my >son's golf bag made a perfect stirring tool. These run about $5 to $7 at >the used sporting goods store. An extra long handle with a nice grip! >What more could I ask? > I plan to continue to use the wedge unless someone knows of a good >reason not to. (My son says, "Okay" as long as I get him a new one.) Hi Tom- Here's something to look into before continuing: Many modern-day clubheads are glued on, using a hot water soluble glue. Older clubs do not use this approach, so you may be okay. Your son's new wedge will probably have a glued-on cast alloy head. Good luck, Brad Mahwah NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 11:25:51 From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III) Subject: Glycerol >roberts at Rt66.com (Bird) writes: >>>>>> "CHOLLIAN-USER" == CHOLLIAN-USER <IPS at chollian.dacom.co.kr> writes: > > > CHOLLIAN-USER> amount, but I can't beleive that the book "The > CHOLLIAN-USER> Complete Joy of Home Brewing" would be so wrong as > CHOLLIAN-USER> to suggest something dangerous to one's health. Has > CHOLLIAN-USER> anyone done this? Is glycerol safe to consume? And > CHOLLIAN-USER> what is glycerol anyway? The amount I'd be using > CHOLLIAN-USER> would be around two liquid ounces in a five gallon > CHOLLIAN-USER> batch of beer. > >Glycerol is basically a suger, and it is safe to eat. When I use >it to prepare my frozen yeast cultures, I use it in 10% by volume >amounts. Included below is my procedure, which has proven true for my last >12 batches. A correction to this: glycerol is not a sugar (although it does have a rather sweet taste) but a higher multiple alcohol, thus the -ol ending (some older materials also refer to it as "glycerine", suggesting an amino component, thus further confusing the issue). The formula, in case anyone cares, is C[3]H[5](OH[3]). Its relatively sweet flavor and high viscosity lead it to be used in patent and proprietary medicines as a syrup base, and it's on the GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) list, although I wouldn't swig it by the tumblerful. Two ounces in a five-gallon batch would be a concentration of roughly 0.3%, and should present no problems. Glycerol should absolutely *not* be confused with higher single alcohols, as e.g. isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol, C[3]H[7]OH. These alcohols are quite toxic, and no preparation using them should be ingested, nor used on any material that will be used for brewing. - -- John W. Braue, III braue at ratsnest.win.net I prefer both my beer and my coffee to be dark and bitter; that way, they fit in so well with the rest of my life. I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 08:40:12 -0800 From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: 1st wort hopping I quote in part from George Fix: >This is an old German procedure where the "aroma hops" (traditionally >a third of the total) are added to the brew kettle just before it is >filled. As far as I can tell this procedure disappeared many decades >ago, and for the better part of the 20th century it has been universally >accepted that beer aroma is best influenced by late kettle additions, >post-boil additions to hot wort (e.g., whirlpool hopping), and/or >cold side hopping during beer maturation. > >Recent research in Germany (c.f., Brauwelt, 1995, Vol.4)) suggests that >this point of view may be overlooking some important effects. I find all this very intriguing. Recently, I was going to ask Glenn Tinseth a similar question, but as far as I was able to determine from Glenn's hop page, he subscribes to the current thinking about late hop additions. I dropped the pursuit, but George's post reawakens my curiosity. George mentions Jean DeClerq's admonitions about hop additions, but I got pointed in that direction by H L Hind's text from the 1930s. Hind was pretty clear that the best hop flavor developed through the boil -- and this is for British ales! The procedure called for significant hop addition early in the boil (perhaps two additions, but all early), then dry-hopping in the cask. I think a lot of our thinking has been shaped by modern brewing approaches that deliberately neglect a profound hop flavor. American pilsners like Budweiser are characterized by a little hop poof in the nose (very little), but certainly no significant hop flavor. It makes sense that brewing science would have been engaged in the pursuit of the best approach to *that* kind of beer, rather than the Exports, Pilsners and Pale Ales. Hmmmm. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:03:32 -0400 From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick) Subject: Floating Cornelius keg liquid line dip tube Because I am gadget design impaired, I need some help from the gadgeteers out there for a gadget idea of mine. My gadget idea is a floating Cornelius keg liquid line dip tube. I've found that conditioning (clearing) beers in Cornelius kegs (without using clarifiers) often takes much longer than for bottled beer. I attribute the longer clearing times to the longer distance that the "haze causing stuff" (highly technical term) has to drop through in a keg. A standard keg has a dip tube which draws beer from the bottom, so that if you sample before the beer is completely clear, you are actually sampling the cloudiest portion in the keg. The floating dip tube will enable one to draw the clearest beer from near the top of the liquid level, thus reducing conditioning time substantially. Do you gadgeteers have any good ideas on designing such a floating dip tube? Steve Zabarnick Dayton, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:30:15 -0500 From: GRMarkel at aol.com Subject: Leaking keg I've developed a leak in the poppet valve of my keg. Taking it apart I found the seal for the seat of the valve damaged. Looking closer its looks like this seal may not be an O-ring that has taken on the shape of the valve seat. The question I have, is (was) this an O ring or do I have to seek out a valve poppet seal???? GRMarkel Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:18:31 CST From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU> Subject: Re: Dark Mysteries; Hunter Airstat To Mr. Dark Mysteries of Brewing: You need to take the plunge and go all-grain. One of the major things you will take control over when you do that is color. The color contribution of extract can be unpredictable, varying with the type of extract, and how long it's been sitting on the shelf. (It darkens with age.) If it is technically or matrimonally impossible to brew all-grain, try light dry malt extract. The dry extract does not darken as badly with age as the liquid kind. My friends will never let me forget the worst beer I ever brewed, which came out ORANGE due to old extract. Tasted bad too. To Mr. Hunter Airstat: Congratulations on that freezer Santa brought you. Alas, the Hunter Airstat is no longer being manufactured. It's just as well - many of us found it problem-prone, although some are happy with it. Just go to a wholesale air conditioning supply place (in Yellow Pages) and ask them for a "beer cooler thermostat". It's a standard item made by Honeywell and others for use in bars. It's a little grey metal box, with electrical connections, a temperature dial, and a remote sensing probe. Price about $40. Then take a heavy-guage (#14-3 only, do not use smaller #16 or #18!) extension cord and cut it up and wire it in. Make sure you cut the black or smooth wire, not the white or ribbed-texture wire, or the green wire. Zymurgy some years ago published an article with detailed parts list, wiring diagrams. You might find it on the AHA web page: http://www.csn.net:80/aob/. I've seen this item pre-assembled at some enterprising homebrew shops. Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd at uic.edu Aliases: u52983 at uicvm.uic.edu U52983 at UICVM.BITNET R.Deschner at uic.edu +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy." | | --Benjamin Franklin | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:16:39 -0500 From: hoopes at bscr.uga.edu (J. Todd Hoopes) Subject: Hop Bitterness and Time Thanks for the responses to my Barlywine yeast question, well I have more. One new years I opened my 14 month old dopple bock and had a few. It was smooth, great head nicely carbonated, but too sweet. I know dopple bocks tend toward sweetness, but mine was too much. The beer tasted... well off style. More like a Watney's Cream Stout. I have heard/read that one looses app. half of hop bittering in 6 monthes. I thought I corrected for this. Does it loose half again in the next six months? Is there some chart which list empirical loses verse time for such styles of beer.. Or did I just screw up? I started with about (45 IBUs). I planning a barlywine as I mentioned. Is 107 IBUs enough? Any comments on barlywine would be appreciated as I have little knowledge of this style and can fined only a few recipes and general facts on it. ********************************************************************* Do unto others.. for given a reversal of situation they would surely do it unto you. J. Todd Hoopes <Hoopes at bscr.uga.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:15:52 -0600 From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at msbg.med.ge.com> Subject: Spare Hunter Airstat .int homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com I have a spare Hunter Airstat that unfortunately I must find a new home for. It has been modified for an extra 10dF swing, allowing lagering down to 30dF. Brand new, never used, but tested. The modification is switchable in/out just in case for some odd reason you wish to control higher temperatures linearly. For the first offer of $35 to reach my emailbox I will hold the unit for you. Mike Teed, ms08653 at msbg.med.ge.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:13:24 -0600 From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> Subject: Belgian Candi Sugar There has been some discussion recently of Belgian Candi Sugar, its uses and availability. I have used the dark a few times in a Fuller's ESB clone. The recipe came off the internet somewhere and I have lost the author's name but he intimated that the BCS was for color. I have found it available at Brewer's Resource (800) 827-3983 and St. Patricks's of Texas (512) 832-9045 or stpats at wixer.bga.com. St. Pat's didn't have any in stock when I tried to order from them but they list it in their catalog. I bought mine from Brewer's Resource. Now to a question of my own. If bittering hops added an hour or so before the end of the boil do not contribute flavor or aroma, as I have been led to believe, why are specific bittering hops named in recipes? Why wouldn't any hops, perhaps the highest alpha acid, be used? I guess George Fix's comments about Columbia hops and early hopping fit in here. I would like to see some knowledgeable discussion of this subject. I need enlightening as perhaps do others. John Wilkinson Grapevine/Plano/Palestine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:46:30 -0500 From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com> Subject: Re: 1st Wort Hopping Happy New Year, HBD! In HBD #1926, George Fix mentioned... >This is an old German procedure where the "aroma hops" (traditionally >a third of the total) are added to the brew kettle just before it is >filled. I guess it's my turn to ask the first silly question of the new year. This may be over-simplifying, but if one of us wanted to try this at home (ignoring any previous warnings) we could just add the aroma hops (roughly 1/3 the total) to the cold brewing water when we first put it on to boil. Then put the rest in after the water has come to a boil and boil, say 45-60 minutes with no other hop additions. This is assuming of course, that our test batch was an extract brew. Has anyone actually tried this technique? How about with an English style ale? My next brew is a Pale ale. I always like to try something a little different with my Pales, and this sounds like a good candidate. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Rust, Master Brewer | Blessings of your heart, Jack Pine Savage Brewery | you brew good ale. Shiloh, IL (NACE) | --Two Gentlemen of Verona, Shakespeare ------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:00:37 -0500 From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Bunch O' Stuff **************** <scold key pressed> I have to stick my $0.02 in about the recent hootin' and hollerin' here on the Digest. Beginner/Pro, Hopped-Extract/All-grain, for Pete's sake CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG (thanks Rodney)? Sure, some of you have been brewing for a hundred years, since you were two, but the rest of us are just regular guys/gals trying to make a decent pint. Everyone's opinion counts, questions deserve answers, and even the recent long-winded "Jim Koch is a _______" (fill-in-the-flame) thread was occasionally thought-provoking. Disagreements and fact-straightening can be much more cordial than it's been, folks. I like to think serious homebrewers are intelligent enough to know how to handle disagreement in an appropriate manner. Enough! <scold key released> ******************* Quick HOWDY/WELCOME to Louie Vidal!! Jump in homeboy! ******************* Dr. Fix, I'm still a little hazy on the "1st wort" thing: > This is an old German procedure where the "aroma hops" (traditionally > a third of the total) are added to the brew kettle just before it is > filled. Does this mean toss the hops into an empty boiler, then sparge wort into the kettle & commence boiling as usual? And for an extract brewer, would this mean putting hops in the kettle, then adding cold water & begin heating? If so, are the supposed benefits acheived by this "cold soak"? ********************* Some newbie questions addressed: > 1. When boiling, is it necessary to cover the boil?? I have 4 books > and only 1 of the book mentions covering the boil. Although probably a matter of personal preference, I have heard at least one tale of DMS and other scary things condensing and dripping back into the boil kettle. Momism-busters may comment. Covering the boil is also highly conducive to boilovers, so be careful if you do. Any water lost to evaporation can be (usually is) made up in the fermenter. > 2. When transferring to the fermenter, should you use a strainer?? > I used a strainer and trapped about a cup of mud-like matter, maybe > the hops?? Strainers clog easily (as you point out), so be sure to use a BIG one. Siphoning is effective in effecting relatively-clean transfer of wort and is arguably the method of choice. You can use a copper/SS scrub pad on the end of the racking tube as a filter. Or you could just dump everything into the fermenter (heresy! I'll burn at the stake!). This is probably at the low end of the list of "Desirable Ways to Transfer Your Wort" however!! > 3. I pitched the yeast and after 4-5 hours I noticed occasional air bubbles > in the air lock. During the next 36 hours there was a constant stream > of air bubbles in the air lock, but after that it has subsided to almost > nothing. Could it be done?? Should I do anything, or just wait a bit?? Visible fermentation is quite often finished this quickly, depending on yeast strain, temperature, wort composition, and other stuff. Not to worry. If you have a hydrometer (and took an initial reading), another reading can gauge the doneness. If about 75% of the gravity over 1.000 is gone, you're done. Example: if starting gravity was 1.040 and now it's around 1.010, it's finished. Rack to secondary or bottle if you wish. ****************** On immersion chiller agitation: I modified my copper immersion chiller coil (being the powerful brute that I am) so that most of the coils are close, but so the bottom coil "drops off" to make up the difference in wort depth. In other words, most of the coils sit at (just under) the top of the wort while one lonely coil holds the rest up. This does two things: (1) Creates some convection by virtue of the altitude of the majority of the coils relative to the total wort depth, and (2) the bottom coil acts as a "springy" (technical term) so one can jiggle the coil to further break that dreaded boundary layer of cool wort clinging to the coil. I also use a prechiller coil which sits in the sink; I add ice and water around it when the wort temp is about 120F for that old thermal pressure thing. The fact that only one turn of the coil is anywhere near the trub (I whirlpool the wort before immersion) means that one can agitate by jiggling the springy without mucking things up. Cooling from 205F (boil temp at 3500 feet) to 75F takes about 15 min, I suppose that's about par. ********************* On Rock Candi(y): Why bother making rock candy at all? Just dump in the sucrose if that's what you're after! Nah, it can't be *that* easy... ***************************************** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX Days since last snow : 1 Raquel Welch: "I was asked to come to Chicago because Chicago is one of our fifty-two states." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:43:58 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: WYEAST Lag Times Jim Hust writes: > For the first time I used liquid yeast > (Wyeast London ESB 1968). It had a date of 12/20/95 on it and my > local homebrew supply retailer said that since it was that fresh there > would be no need to make a starter for greater volume. I just pitched > it direct at about 70F. <snip> > Should it have taken over 36 hours, and is my bubble rate > fast enough? Many consider 1-10E6 cells per ml. of cast-out wort an optimum pitching rate for fermentation. If you assume that at high kraeusen (HK), your starter is at or near 10E6 cells per ml., then it follows that one can pitch an X ml. starter-at or past HK-into a 10X volume of wort, i.e. step up by a factor of ten and still be in the 'optimum' range for yeast concentration. If you accept this, then starting with a 50 ml. WYEAST smak-pak, one can step up to 500 ml. and then step up again to 2 L., which is then pitched into the 5 gal. batch. This sounds like a huge starter, but I believe your fermentations will be more complete and will proceed more quickly if you do. In short, your retailer led you down the path of least effort, rather than the path of optimum fermentation. I believe Ray Daniels discussed this topic in some detail several months ago in HBD'land. Cheers, Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:53:56 -0500 From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot) Subject: 1st Wort Hopping Having read with interest the recent article on GFix on first wort hopping I've a few questions.... I assume others will have more.. - Does this mean that the aroma hops are thrown into the empty kettle and the wort is lautered onto them? - For bitterness calculations, do I assume these are a full length boil? - Does this only pertain to aroma....eg. flavor hop additions as always. prosit chuckm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 14:23:00 PST From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at hood-03.army.mil> Subject: Sagebrush powder To the collective, Due to a large Korean community here, you can get all sorts of strange things in the local stores. While browsing, I found powdered sagebrush used to make sagebrush tea. The tea tastes like Japanese green tea by the way. Can I use this in my beer? If so, what style would best suit the flavor? How much should I use? Will I get green beer? Will it be dangerous? Will I find inner peace when I drink it? And what about outer peace? Suggestions anyone?????????????????? goodaled at hood-03.army.mil DANIEL W. GOODALE CPT, CM DISCOM CHEMO Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 17:24:09 -0800 From: bbrowne at golder.com (Barry Browne) Subject: The FIX mashing schedules or what's up with the malt? Hoppy to all, I want to know what the consensus is with respect to G. Fix's mash schedules. Last night I read and reread all info I have on this topic, which includes Dr. Fix's original 1994 posts, Spencer's (I think it was Spencer?) comments on the same, and miscellaneous other stuff. What I gather is that the 40-60-70 schedule is best suited for well modified malt and the 50-60-70 schedule is for less well-modified malt. The curiosity is that recent reports on various popular malts have observed that all malts, including pilsner malts, are WELL modified. Therefore, according to the original Fix mashing schedules, all mashes will now be 40-60-70. Since I am no longer RIMS challenged (thanks Rick), I can easily perform step mashing, and intend to do so from now on. I can easily get, and do, the following brands of malt: Munton and Fison, Hugh Baird, DeWolf-Cosyns, Ireks, Briess. I do not have easy access to Durst, Gambrinus or malt analysis data . For those of you who've suffered through this uninformative post, I would really appreciate learning of your experience (or hear comments/advice) with the mashing schedules and the malts. I thank you all and WILL summarize as I think it a topic of wide interest. Hey if I think it's important, it has to be 8^) Barry Browne Atlanta, GA bbrowne at golder.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:57:20 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu> Subject: Irish moss and will it work for wine? I am mostly a wine maker with the occasional winter batch of mead, and decided to read up on Irish Moss. I have heard that it is sometimes used to clarify mead of all styles as well as beer. This raised the question "could it be used in a like fashion for wine?" I am always looking for good fining and clarifying agents, so any suggestions or ideas are welcome. Post or e-mail Doug Thomas thomasd at uchastings.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 22:21:19 +0000 (GMT) From: HOUCK KEITH A <HOUCK_KEITH_A at Lilly.com> Subject: Stoudt's yeast for Belgian double and tripel Hey y'all, Stoudts Belgian Double and Tripel are mighty fine brews. I hope lots of you get the opportunity to try some. Does anyone have any information on the yeast(s) used? Are they single strain? Is the ale bottle-conditioned with the same yeast? TIA for any information you might have. Keith Houck Orange County, NC hak at lilly.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 18:19:46 -0500 From: denisb at CAM.ORG (Denis Barsalo) Subject: Kitchen Aid Grain Mill / Maerzen Happy New Year to all, There's always been a lot of talk of various grain mills on HBD but I've never heard anything about the grain mill attachement that works with the professional style Kitchen Aid blenders. The brochure claims it's for grinding grain to fine flour or coarse chunks. Can anyone tell me if this is a proper roller type grinder with fine adjustments or a plate type grinder like the Coronas? I'm presently using a Phil's Mill at the brewstore, but the owner hasn't motorized it yet. I'm very happy with the crush and my extraction rate is excellent, but grinding 10lbs of grain takes quite a while when you're turning that crank! (Besides, I would rather do it at home.) I'm planning on brewing a Maerzen this weekend. I'll be using Saaz hops (1oz boil, 1/2 oz flavor, 1/2 oz finish) and an additional 1/2 oz of Hallertauer for finish. Most recipes I've found suggest Tettnang, but fresh Tettnang is practically impossible to find where I am (Montreal), whereas the Saaz and Hallertauer are quite fresh. While I'm at it, what's the difference between a Maerzen and an Oktoberfest? The way I see it, the only difference is the season that it's traditionally brewed in! Denis Barsalo Return to table of contents