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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  RELAX ("1107-CD&I/VIRUS DISEASES")
  Re: Using crystal malt and other grains (dw)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #195 (July 06, 1989) (Gordon Hester)
  HB.DIG#195-Relaxation, sanitization, success, and crystal. (florianb)
  Crystal Malt (iwtio!korz)
   (Darryl Richman)
  Sanitizing And Crushing (pri=8 Marc San Soucie ms 019-890 x76723)
  Excess fermentation and bad beer (Erik Asphaug)

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Date: 6 Jul 89 07:46:00 EST
From: "1107-CD&I/VIRUS DISEASES" <henchal at wrair-emh1.army.mil>
Subject: RELAX

I support the conclusions with regard to the resilience of
homebrewing.  It is easy (with emphasis on the "easy") to make very
drinkable brew using the guidelines in Papazian's book.  To put
things in perspective, beer and ales were (and probably, still are)
brewed without chlorax, without hydrometers, and without even
thermometers for at least seven centuries in Europe.  Similar
fermentables have been brewed in parts of Asia and Africa without
fancy equipment for even longer.  I hope that any beginning brewer
would not feel intimidated by any of the scientific or quantitative
data.  Guidelines for sanitation, etc are just that...guidelines. 
The most important aspect of the craft is doing what works for
you....have fun....keep it clean.....and RELAX, HAVE A HOMEBREW.

    ERIK A. HENCHAL
  <Henchal at WRAIR.ARPA>  

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Date: 6 Jul 89 08:10:10 EDT (Thursday)
From: dw <Wegeng.Henr at Xerox.COM>
Subject: Re: Using crystal malt and other grains

In regards to crystal malt:

>1- How do I go about crushing it? How crushed does it
>need to be?

The general idea is to break (crack) the grain into three to five pieces.
When I first started using grain I used a rolling pin for this. Later a
friend loaned me a grain mill, which is much quicker if you have several
pounds of grain to process (but not necessary for a pound or two). You
don't have to worry about getting exactly three to five pieces, but
breaking each grain in half probably isn't enough and making flour is way
too much.

Some homebrew supply shops have grain mills and will crack the grain for
you. This seems like a reasonable alternative (though you may have to pay a
few cents extra). 

>2- When do I add it to the wort?

I add cracked crystal malt when the boil water is cold, and remove it just
before the water starts to boil (before I add the malt extract and hops). I
used to simply dump the grain into the water, and then strain it out with a
kitchen strainer. Later I bought a nylon grain bag, which makes removing
the grains trivial.

/Don

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Date: Thu,  6 Jul 89 11:16:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gordon Hester <gh0t+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #195 (July 06, 1989)

The postings on sanitation have been most enlightening. Thanks
to the posters.

One poster mentioned not using a bottle brush when cleaning bottles. I,
after my first frustrating experience trying to dislodge mold from
bottles to put my first batch in, obtained a very handy bottle cleaning
device. I think it's called a "jet washer" (well, I think it's called a
jet something, anyway - obviously no problems of commercial affiliation
here.) It consists of a brass fitting that attaches to the faucet in
my kitchen sink (with the help of a simple adapter - it is threaded to
fit a faucet of the type commonly encountered in laundry tubs or gardens)
and has a roughly U-shaped brass tube on it, so that the business end of
the tube points upwards. You turn the water on (after turning on your hot
water tap in your sink, of course) by putting a bottle down over the
tube - a valve at the end of the tube is operated by a wire running
along the tube, so you get the bottle safely over the tube before it
squirts all over the place. The tube has a farily small diameter, so
the water velocity is fairly high. I have found this thing immensely
convenient - it cleans out most bottles in a couple of seconds, and
those with exceptionally stubborn moldy deposits are generally handled
by a couple of repeated squirtings and brief soakings. Of course,
I soak the bottles in a bleach solution after cleaning - I use a fairly
weak solution (about a quarter cup in a bathtub full of water, where I
do my soaking much to my wife's annoyance), soak for at least 24 hours,
and then just take the bottles out and put them upside down in their box
(lined with clean paper) to drain for half an hour or so - no rinsing,
and I've detected no bleach flavors or anything.

I think this jet thing cost about $10 at my local brew shop -
may well be available for less elsewhere. I think there are
similar devices that don't have the valve on them (in fact, I
seem to recall seeing a picture of one in Papazian's book). I'd
recommend against them - it would be a pain to have to turn your
faucet on and off for every bottle, and the valve arrangement makes
that unnecessary. If anyone wants the brand name, send me mail - I MAY
still have the packaging at home.

gordon hester
gh0t+ at andrew.cmu.edu

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Date: 06 Jul 89 08:55:24 PDT (Thu)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: HB.DIG#195-Relaxation, sanitization, success, and crystal.

Digest #195 contained several comments from contributors attesting to
the resiliency of homebrewing.  Some quotes:

Steve Anthony said,
>an effective yet unobtrusive sanitization procedure for me.  I realize that
>this is all very unscientific and that many might argue that my procedures
>aren't rigorous enough.  However, I feel I'm getting good results (as I
>said, no spoilage to date, after 5-6 years of brewing).  As always,

Chuck Ferguson said,
>appreciation of the rewards.  A first-timer reading a newsgroup like
>this or conversing with an experienced homebrewer might get a
>distorted view of what is important in homebrewing.  Experience
>homebrewers tend to delve into esoterica when discussing their art.

>I am talking from experience here.  I first got interested in
>homebrewing when a fellow with whom I worked told me he had brewed
>before.  He told me all about the process in great detail and I was
>baffled.  He showed me a whole closet-full of equipment for

I really enjoyed these comments.  In 1978, I got interested in home
brewing, so I picked up a copy of Fred Eckhart's "A Treatise on Lager
Beer".  After reading it, I decided that homebrewing was too expensive,
too long, too detailed, and not worth the effort.  It wasn't until 9
years later that by brother-in-law, a veteran homebrewer, set me  
straight on just how easy and rewarding homebrewing was.  Within a month
I was brewing better beer than I could buy in stores.  I have never gotten
carried away with meticulous sanitization, never worried about yeast
not doing its thing, and so on and so on, after two years.  The worst
thing that has happened in these two years has been a ruined batch of
cider from using Campden tablets.

I believe the most important things are to use good ingredients, 
use enough time, take a certain amount of care with sanitizing, and 
to enjoy the hobby.  By "certain", I mean whatever works for YOU or ME.
Beer is a funny thing.  It seems to take on attributes of its home,
almost the character of its brewer, something which has been mentioned
by both Papazain and Miller, and mentioned by my friends who home brew.
Once you work out a system, things seem to go right after that.

Finally, Gordon Hester asks about crystal malt:

>1- How do I go about crushing it? How crushed does it
>need to be?

>2- When do I add it to the wort? Some things I have seen

In the past, I have cracked the crystal malt with a rolling pin.  Now,
I use my old grain mill.  One shouldn't crush the grain to the point
that it powders.  I derive its goodness by heating it to just below the
boiling point in a kettle, then straining it into the brew boiler.
Some of the books recommend skimming it off, but you should be careful
to get all the grain out before boiling to avoid tannins in the grain
husks.

[Florian Bell, Boonesborough, Oregon]

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Date: Thu, 6 Jul 89 16:24:19 mdt
From: att!iwtio!korz at hplabs.HP.COM
Subject: Crystal Malt

>In digest #195, Gordon Hester writes:

>How do I go about crushing it?

Unless you have a grain mill, put the grain in a plastic
bag and roll over it with a rolling pin.

>How crushed does it need to be?

Your goal is to _only_break_open_the_husks_ (not break the
malt into small pieces).  Ideally, if you could break each
grain in half, that would be perfect.

>When do I add it to the wort?

I put the crystal malt in a grain bag, put it in the
kettle with the cold water, and slowly bring the water
to a boil (so the sugars in the crystal malt have time
to dissolve and so the wort doesn't scorch).  As soon
as the wort comes to a boil, remove the grain bag.  Next,
I add the extract and hops and do the main boil.  I put a 
gallon of boiled, refridgerated, airated, tapwater in the
primary (so it doesn't crack from the hot wort), pour
the wort into the primary, place the grain bag in a huge
funnel in the top of the primary, and pour more boiled,
refrigerated, airated, tapwater through the grains to
bring the level in the primary up to the top of the carboy.
The reason I pour the water through the grains is to get
the last bit of sugars out of the grains.

A few extra notes:

1. If you crush the grains too much, you will have trouble
keeping them in the grain bag (if you use one) or getting
them out of the wort (if you don't).  Also, if you don't
use a grain bag, you will have problems sparging (see CJoHB
glossary) because the grain bed will be too fine.

2. If you boil the grains, you will have problems with
chill haze and astringency.  Boiling the husks will cause
tannins to be released which will react with the proteins
in the wort to produce chill haze when the beer is cold.

3. Crystal malt is fully converted, don't bother to mash
it.

4. Crystal malt will add body (and subsequently head),
a little sweetness, a little more alcohol, and quite a
bit of color to your final product.  If you wish to not
add color, try Cara-Pils (R) (Dextrine) malt.  [I have
not tried Cara-Pils so I'm just passing on what I've read].

Al.

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Date: Sun, 2 Jul 89 08:56:32 PDT
From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com>
Subject: 

From: Patrick T. Garvin
"Subject: How reliable is Papiazan, and where is he not to be trusted?

I have to agree with your general attitude.  Being of a technical bent,
I like to know what's going on and why.  I personally find Papazian's
book almost patronizing in tone.  However, I understand that he's trying
to reach more of the public than just me.  He does know what he's saying,
he's just trying to be entertaining enough to hook someone who's not a
technical freak into giving this thing a try.  The other aspect is that
people have been brewing for a long, long, long time and it just works.
The technical aspects are minor refinements to the process.  That's why
he advises "don't worry, be happy", or something.

"Papiazan, in his book "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" is a little too
"vague about certain aspects of brewing, for my satisfaction.

If you're really serious, he's too vague about all of them.  My particular
gripe is that he has a table of water hardness values, but since we all
know that Carbonate ions are BAD, he doesn't include them in the table.
Well, that's just nonsense, and makes his table useless to me.

"Being told not to worry, that everything will turn out all right, always sets
"my teeth on edge.  I'd prefer to be given information rather than platitudes.

There are other books.  Get Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer" or even Miller's
"The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing" (which it isn't).  Get the MBAA's
publication "The Practical Brewer" to find out what the industry does and
why.  Look at "Malting and Brewing Science" by Hough, et al.

"What I'm wondering is how good is his science?  I'm aware that he writes
"for the layperson, and naturally wouldn't go into quite as much detail as
"he might otherwise.  

Papazian won't steer you wrong, but you aren't going to find out why he's
right and when you can ignore his rules from his book.

"He suggests using, one or two ounces of clorine bleach per five gallons of
"water, while one of my kits suggests five ounces of bleach per five 
"gallons of water.  Someone I work with (who has had "some Chemistry")
"was of the opinion that five ounces of bleach per five gallons was 
"insufficient to sanitize.  

It's a question of strength and time of contact.  It's also a case that what
we do in our kitchens could never be considered sterile or even sanitized;
but our yeast will out if we are just good enough.  Physical cleanliness
and any reasonable amount of bleach crosses this line.  I haven't had any
chemistry (since high school), but I would expect that you would have to
know a lot about what is hanging around to decide what strength for what
time period is sufficient for sterility.

"So, I pose the question to the experienced brewers of the list, what
"procedures do you follow when making beer, as respects sanitation, etc.

As I said above, if you are good enough, the yeast will out.  I don't
even measure bleach--I use a couple glugs in a bucket and test to make
sure that the smell is strong and I can feel it on my hands (being
quite alkaline, it has that slimy feel).  Everything after the boil
gets at least a five minute soak.

"(I'm brewing my first batch this weekend, and am feeling the "nervous
"father" sensations).

[...and in the next message...]

"I had panicked when nothing had happened after three hours.  I guess I
"should have paid attention when Papiazan said "Don't worry."  and also
""The yeast have a mind of their own".  

"After ten hours, there was a healthy head of krausen on top of the beer, and
"it had pushed the tube out of the cork.  I was never so happy to see anything
"in my life.

10 hours is just fine.  Sometimes conditions aren't so good and it takes longer
(24...48...even more).  Usually this results from underpitching, because the
yeast don't move onto their fermentation phase until they have reached a
level of about 10^7 cells/ml.  Homebrewers are notorious underpitchers because
nobody wants to hassle making a starter several days ahead.

Good luck with your beer;  I hope it all turns out well.  Cheers!

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: 6 Jul 89 16:46:52 EDT (Thu)
From: wang!mds at uunet.UU.NET (pri=8 Marc San Soucie ms 019-890 x76723)
Subject: Sanitizing And Crushing

In reference to Steve Anthony's description of his sanitization procedures:

My own procedures differ in the odd detail here and there, but what you are
doing sounds like a perfectly reasonable compromise between slavish attention
to cleanliness and sloth. After all, why should brewing be an unpleasant
chore? I haven't had a speck of contamination yet, and for the most part
I do things pretty much as you have described them. Except for sucking on
siphon hoses. Never could make it work that way...

Gordon Hester asks about "well crushed" grains:

> How do I go about crushing it? How crushed does it need to be?
> When do I add it to the wort?

When brewing with grain additives, you're doing something akin to making a
fine spaghetti sauce - toss in a bit of this and a pinch of that and a couple
huge handfuls of hot peppers and...

Crystal malt is a malt which has been processed to contain crystallized sugars
within its kernels. Crushing allows hot water to pull more of these sugars out
of the grains. Degrees of crushing probably do not greatly affect this
activity, so long as the grains are opened up. Extreme crushing (grinding)
may actually have negative side effects, such as allowing nasty bits of the
grain husk to contribute possibly harsh flavors to your beer. I buy some of
my crystal malt pre-crushed, and crush the rest by hand with a heavy glass in
a mixing bowl. I wear a leather glove to protect my hand from the day, sure to
come, when the glass breaks. This technique is so stupid as to be laughable.
Someday will I buy a proper crusher?

Other grains, such as black malt or roasted barley, can be treated more like
the little red peppers in Szechuan food - more crushing for more flavor, less
for less. In some stouts I like a knock-me-off-my-feet assault of flavor, so
I grind the black malt up into atom-sized particles. This is an acquired taste,
as many find ground black malt too aggressive. I can't get enough of it.

Papazian does have a chapter, or section thereof, about using grain adjuncts.
He recommends putting them into the cold water as it is heated, and removing
them when the water comes to a boil. This is a lazy enough technique for me,
so I have never strayed far from it. Professionals and all-grain brewers will
surely have a host of improved suggestions to make, and if I ever see one which
isn't a lot of work, I'll surely try it.

Basically, do what you have time for. Whole grains, uncrushed, will add nice
flavors. Crushing will add more. Grinding still more. Stop when you've had
enough. Drink the result.

    Marc San Soucie
    The John Smallbrewers
    Massachusetts

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Date: Thu, 6 Jul 89 18:02:25 MST
From: asphaug at hiips.lpl.arizona.edu (Erik Asphaug)
Subject: Excess fermentation and bad beer

Although our first two batches of ale have turned out decent enough (the
second batch was awarded a number of complements by guests who weren't 
even drunk yet) we have had problems with the aging process (the beer,
not ourselves so far). While the first weeks of top popping go well, after
a few more weeks at ca. 75 - 80 degree temperatures (or even lower here
at the lab) the brew fizzes excessively and then foams all over the place
when poured, and raises somewhat of a stink. Only a loving father coul
drink such a poor production.

My question is: Do we have a problem with wild yeasts or the method of
our aging? I have noticed that the brew kept in the fridge held up well, and
even improved -- although I'm certain that as the brew became scarcer, each
bottle was enjoyed more. But the stuff left in the cupboard deteriorated within
a matter of a month.

Another matter entirely: My friend is interested in visiting the local feed
store in order to sprout his own barley or whatever -- i.e., make this here
brewing process cheaper than purchasing a nice sixpack of Pacifico and one
of Watneys for later. If any of you out there are the victims of overtight
pursestrings, please let me know of a horsefeed ale worth brewing and 
drinking.
				Gan Bei!

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #196, 07/07/89

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