HOMEBREW Digest #1991 Fri 22 March 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: strange dregs (Jeff Renner)
  First Wort Hopping Questions (Todd Kirby)
  First all-grain batch (Neil Roberts)
  Extracts & Adjuncts Query (John McCauley)
  Re: getting started with all-grain (Mike Uchima)
  Aluminum Kettles (J0HN CHANG)
  Fill Level Experiment (Algis R Korzonas)
  aromatic Vienna and Steam/water treatment/2,3-pentanedione (Algis R Korzonas)
  event inquiry ("JASON SLOAN")
  English majors step right up... (Simonzip)
  Sorry for the wrong address(growing hops) (Douhan)
  First Wort Hopping. (Steve Alexander)
  data point for tartan underwear ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
  Re:Prohibition Revisited - not (The Fruit Fly Guy)
  Re: Advice on Cherry Beer (liquori) (Dave Riedel)
  Hop Cultivation (JIM ANDERSON)
  calories from alcohol (shelby & gary)
  Carbonation (Al Paglieri)
  Estimating Color (Scott Bukofsky)
  Re: straining trub/slow carbonation (Rosenzweig,Steve)
  Re: Reusing Yeast (John DeCarlo                       )
  Iron in Water ("Patrick E. Humphrey 708-937-3295")
  Sour Mashing (Michael Coen)
  Sam Adam's Triple Bock (Johan H\dggstr\vm)
  Re: canned cherries (Jeff Benjamin)
  Free Bottles (WOLFF)
  Strong Scotch Ale ("Roger A. Becker")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:59:44 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: strange dregs In HBD 1988, "Mark W. Wilson" <mwilson at ichips.intel.com> said: > > I recently bottled a Weizen, 10 days after pitching a > pre-started Wyeast 3056 (Bavarian wheat?). (OG 1.064, > FG 1.019) about a 2:1 malt/wheat ratio. When washing out > my carboy, I noticed some lumps (total of about 2 > tablespoons worth) that were too large to go down the > drain. They were dark brown and rubbery, looked and > felt sort of like dense natural sponge. Beer smells and > tastes ok (so far) Any idea what these blobs are? > Effects of autolysis maybe? Or is this an occasional > side-effect of the strain (3056 is usually a little > chunky anyway, but I've never seen pieces this large and > this dark in previous batches) It sounds to me like coagulated wheat protein (gluten) hot break that made it over from the boiler. Wheat protein is much more rubbery than barley protein, which is why it makes higher rising bread - it stretches rather than breaks and traps the evolved CO2 in the dough. Last summer a wit I made with 45% raw soft wheat had a hot break that looked like dumplings! Sounds like nothing to worry about. Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 10:42:13 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Kirby <mkirby at bgsm.edu> Subject: First Wort Hopping Questions First Wort Hopping sounds interesting. Just a couple questions: 1). Do you remove the hops before boiling or just leave them in. 2). If this is a substitue for late additions, does this mean that you should preferentially use aromatic hops over bittering for FWH? If so, what about question 1? Todd Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 10:44:16 -0600 From: Neil Roberts <neil at wsnet.com> Subject: First all-grain batch I am about to embark on my first all-grain batch, and have converted two kegs for the purpose. I plan to make a 10-gallon batch (seems silly to do 5 gallons with all that capacity), but don't find many 10-gallon recipies. I know, all I have to do is double one, but I have had a terrible time deciding on a recipe to use. To the brewing collective: can y'all suggest a good, simple starting recipe for all-grain, 10 gallons bearing in mind that it needs to be simple to accomodate my rank amateur status. I would prefer to make an English-style ale, maybe something in the 1.045-1.055 starting gravity range. Thanks for the advice! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:57:16 -0500 From: John McCauley <johnm at his.com> Subject: Extracts & Adjuncts Query At 01:00 AM 3/18/96 -0700, you wrote: From: W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US (Bill Gladden) >Subject: Extracts & Adjuncts Query > > >>A common problem with extract brews is that the beer has no head >>retention whatsoever so that the carbonation, while there, >>escapes in huge bubbles in a couple of minutes. > >I'll be. And here I thought my problem was unique. Since it's >common, I'll bite and toss this out to the collective. > >I have not yet found a good source of detailed information on >adjuncts and suspect this is one avenue to pursue in the quest >for more body and head retention in my extract brews. When I started using about 1-1.5 lbs of Laaglander brand DME in my all-extract beers I suddenly got thick, persistent heads and great lacing on the glass. I understand that Laaglander is full of dextrins and other unfermentables. BTW, this is with force carbonation in a corny keg. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- | John McCauley | CTGi 703-352-0590 | johnm at his.com | Oakton, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:39:36 -0600 From: uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima) Subject: Re: getting started with all-grain flemingkr at market1.com (Kirk Fleming) said: > In #1983 Keith advised brewers who have been intimidate by all-grain > to 'just do it'. I just had to butt in and second that advice. All > I want to say is that there is so much pleasure to be gained from > doing a beer from scratch, and so little to be lost by not doing it > "perfectly", there is simply NO reason not to. Well, there IS one > more thing I want to say: 5 gallons is not a magic number and if you > have been reluctant to do a grain-based batch due to equipment limits, > then for heaven's sake do a smaller batch. Try 3 gallons! As someone who has recently done exactly as Kirk recommends, I'll third this advice. I've just started doing 3 gallon all-grain batches, and the additional equipment required was minimal. I use my bottling bucket to hold the sparge water, and a perforated pie tin to distribute the water over the grain bed. The only new equipment I actually *purchased* was a Phil's Phalse Bottom and an additional plastic bucket, to use as a lauter tun (total additional cost: less than $20). Many suppliers will crush your grain for you, so you can put off buying a grain mill. All-grain sounds kind of scary at first, but it really doesn't have to be that big a deal. I'm getting pretty decent extraction (hitting the OG of the recipes almost dead-on), and while the mash is resting, you can do other things (like bottle a previous batch). I've bottled my first 2 all-grain batches (I did a pair of 3 gallon batches in parallel). They've been in the bottles less than a week, so I really can't comment on the final results yet; but both tasted pretty darn good at bottling time. If the taste at bottling time is any indication, these two batches could turn out to be some of the best beer I've made so far. Sorry to be repetitive, but if you're thinking of getting into all-grain, "just do it"! - -- Mike Uchima - -- uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov Return to table of contents
Date: 19 Mar 96 14:53:31 EST From: J0HN CHANG <75411.142 at compuserve.com> Subject: Aluminum Kettles I may be opening a can of worms on this one, but: Do any of you work with aluminum mash tuns/brew kettles? Dave Miller in his book suggests this is not a good practice because of the off flavors created. Papazian's latest release says there is no problem with it. I have a five gallon restaurant grade aluminum stockpot, but am unsure of its effectiveness or safety for use in brewing. Private email welcome. John Chang 75411.142 at compuserve.com or john.chang at newhorizons.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 13:55:42 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Fill Level Experiment Back in January, we had a discussion regarding the effect of fill level on carbonation for batch-primed beers. Last night I tasted the results of my experiment. The beer was an all-grain American Pale Ale and was primed with 2/3 cup of corn sugar for the 4.5 gallons in the priming carboy. I filled bottles at four different levels: HIGH: 1.6 cm headspace NORMAL: 4.7 cm headspace LOW: 6.6 cm headspace VERY LOW: 8.7 cm headspace I had my wife Karen randomly assign numbers to the bottles and the glasses were labeled only with numbers. I was in the basement while she poured, so I could not hear the difference in "fffffft." She poured the same amount in all four glasses, down the side, in exactly the same way. The glases were all beer-clean and at the same temperature. The beers were all at 55 degrees F. The beer had been bottled on 1/26/96 and this test was done on 3/18/96. The bottles were conditioning in a dark room that was between 64 and 67 degrees F. Here are my results: * The HIGH fill beer had very slightly less carbonation than the rest. * All the rest of the beers had no perceptable difference in carbonation. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 13:43:42 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: aromatic Vienna and Steam/water treatment/2,3-pentanedione John writes: >I put about an ounce plus of Styrian Goldings and >Ultra in the Boiler as I collected my wort from my Mash/Lauter tun. and >Anyway, the beers turned out very good, and true to style. Since when are Vienna and Steam beers supposed to have a significant hop aroma and a Styrian/Ultra nose, at that? If there is any hop aroma in a Steam beer, it should be the woody/rustic US Northern Brewer and not the resiny Styrian Golding or the spicy Ultra (which have a lot of Saaz in their lineage). Care to `splain this, John? ;^). *** Vid writes: I've brewed about four batches of ale and haven't been too impressed with my results. All the brews have had a similar taste. Not BAD, mind you, just not great. I've been told that I might expect that since I'm brewing with extract. I suspected that the cause might be the RO water. My local homebrew store tells me that there is no use in trying to treat the water because the DME should have all the attributes of the water used to make the DME. Is there any truth to that, or could I benefit from the use of gypsum and salts? First, let's make sure that you are not doing one thing that will make all your beers taste "similar" and "not great." Make sure that you are not aerating hot wort. Yes, I know that Charlie Papazian says to pour the hot wort through a sieve, but this will definitely cause hot side aeration. What you should do is somehow cool the wort before aerating it. Stick the kettle in a sink full of icewater, freeze some water in some 2-liter PET bottles and stick them into the wort, build a wort chiller... do something... cool the wort before you aerate it. The flavour you will get in your finished beer if you aerate hot is sort of "sherry-like" (like Harvey's Bristol Cream). Next, are you using the same strain of yeast in each batch? The yeast makes a much bigger contribution to the final flavour than most brewers realize. A variety of yeasts will give you a variety of flavours even if you use the same extract and specialty grains. Regarding water treatment... yes, you're right water can be a big factor in differentiating between various styles. Your store is wrong. There is a use and is is not a waste. While it is true that the DME (or syrup) will contain the minerals of the water used to make the extract, if you are making something like an IPA, you really need a lot more sulfate in your water than any extract manufacturer is going to be willing to put into the package. All you should really be concerned about are the sulfates and, if you add dark grains, carbonates. You should use the soft RO water for some styles (like Pilsners) but you will want to add sulfates for styles like IPA, Dortmunder, Vienna, and maybe some Scottish Ales. If you are not adding dark grains, then there is probably enough carbonate in your extract to balance the acidity of the dark grains used to make the extract. If you do add more dark grains, you will want to add some calcium carbonate. For a more detailed discussion of water, see A.J. deLange's series in the Hombrew Digest, the Zymurgy article on water in the Great Grains Special Issue or the feature article in the issue of Zymurgy that has "Beer from Water" on the cover. Finally, excellent, prize-winning beers can be brewed from extract. There is nothing inherent to brewing from extract that prevents you from making great beer. It is important that the extract be fresh and of high-quality. There are some crappy extracts out there and but most are good. There are some extracts that are good but not very fermentable (like Laaglander DME, "Dutch" DME and "European" DME). There are other brands that have been made in such a way that virtually no proteins are left in them and, as AJ noted recently, these would make a beer that would have very poor head retention. I've had very good results with Munton & Fison, Alexander's and Cooper's extracts. *** Tom writes: >>there is a Belgian beer that has a very prominent 2,3 pentanedione character >>snip >>my guess is La Chouffe. > >Could be, but I don't think so. I was at the Brasserie d'Achouffe last week >and in talking with Kris Bouwaert, the owner, understood that they use only >malted barley and candi sugar (light and dark). We had a very comprehensive >tour, and I didn't see any signs of honey containers. <snip> The rest of Tom's post implies that he knows very well that the yeast create the 2,3-pentanedione and it has nothing to do with the addition of honey, despite the fact that it does give the beer a honey-like aroma. Tom also asks: >What fermentation conditions favor 2,3 pentanedione formation over diacetyl? I think it's the amino acids in the wort. I can't remember which ones it is, but I believe they are given in George Fix's Principles of Brewing Science and in Malting and Brewing Science by Hough et. al. So all you have to do is call Sigma and buy some valine or lysine or whatever and... no, just kidding, I don't think it's that simple, or is it? Incidentally, there's only one "p" in Tripel (New Belgium Brewery's spelling notwithstanding). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:36:36 CST From: "JASON SLOAN" <JSLOAN at alum.uhs.edu> Subject: event inquiry Hey! My spring break starts on friday the 22nd and I was wondering if there were any (good) beer or brewing festivities going on in the country? I'm planning on road-trippin from Kansas City to someplace, I just dont know where yet. Any and all suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, Jason Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 16:40:44 -0500 From: Simonzip at aol.com Subject: English majors step right up... This is a request for some brewing info. I'm working on a project, It does fall outside of the usual technical discussions, but IS brewing related. Please respond via private e-mail. I have a piece of software that will generate random gibberish text. The cool thing is, if set up right, it will be grammatically correct and probably quite hilarious. I need to enter into the program a bunch of words that fit the basic styles of grammar: adjectives, adverbs, articles, conjunctions, nouns, proper nouns, qualifiers and verbs. Since most of my waking thoughts revolve around brewing, I want this program to generate brewing gibberish. If you'd like to help me with this (and I hope someone does because grammar was not one of my strong subjects) just e-mail me with a small list of brewing related words and their proper grammatical category. After I get it together I'll generate some text and post it. It should be pretty funny, if not right away, certainly after a brewing or bottling session when there are a lot of empties laying around. Thanks Darrin (The homebrews kicked the ugly magazines, then the rocks beat the grotesque homebrews, after the rocks kicked the magazine, then the rocks quaffed the magazines.) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 16:06:11 -0800 (PST) From: Douhan <gdouhan at wsunix.wsu.edu> Subject: Sorry for the wrong address(growing hops) Sorry everybody who tried to view the page. The correct address is http://www.oda.state.or.us/hop/extct104.html (I wrote in a e for a c) You can also get to it through Glenn Tinseth's hop page: http://www.teleport. com/~gtinsethindex.html Greg Douhan gdouhan at wsunix.wsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 19:23:12 -0500 From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> Subject: First Wort Hopping. Tracy Aquilla wrote in HBD #1985 >>Dave pointed out that many brewers boil the wort for 15-30 minutes before the >>first hop addition to allow the hot break to form, and thus any \ >> contribution of >>iso-alpha acids from the small amount of hops used for first wort hopping can >>be ignored, i.e., don't subtract out IBU contributions from the first wort >>hopping as I did. > >I think that would really depend on the hops you're using. For example, in >George's posts he described using Columbus hops for first wort hopping. With >such a high alpha acid cultivar, I think the bittering contribution would be >quite significant indeed! However, since this method is generally seen as a >'Pilsener procedure', if you're using Saaz, it might not be so critical. Tracy appears to be correct. I recently brewed an ale based on Columbus hops for both bittering and aroma (15.4% AA !! - these hops actually FEEL gummy!!) and used FWH. The ale is currently in the secondary. The estimated IBUs using Glen Tinseth's calculation would be 32.2 IBU ignoring the FWH and 45 IBU including them. Upon tasting it is clear that the FWH did contribute substantially to the bittering and the upper figure is a better estimate (fortunately). By comparison w/ commercial beers I'd guesstimate a bit over 40IBU. I suspect that the reduction in alpha acids due to hot break formation is partial at best, and will depend upon the amount alpha acids and on the amount of hot break - which will vary substantially with recipe & mash methods. I also have a decoction brewed pils which was FWHed and isn't quite finished lagering. I doubt that I could accurately detect the (roughly 3 IBU) difference in bittering contribution w/o a side-by-side comparison of FWH vs non-FWH. >I've used the first wort hopping method in several recent beers so we should >have lots of data to analyze and discuss next month. Me too. More later. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 18:43:00 PST From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at hood-03.army.mil> Subject: data point for tartan underwear Beings of the collective, I've been brewing for about a year now and my learning curve has increased exponential thanks to the HBD. However, on the odd occasion, the Biohazard Brewing Company will have a less than perfect batch. As far as I can tell, I followed all the procedures to the "T." Thanks to the HBD I finally tracked down the problem. Unlike my friend at the Butt Naked Brewing Company, I always ware some old boxer shorts while brewing to avoid the bleach sanitizing solution and its effect on clothes. Only with the help of the HBD did I realize that these were causing "plaid-tosis" in my yeast. Another mystery solved, but does anyone know if you can revive plaid-shocked yeast by burning the offending boxer shorts in front of the carboy? Daniel Goodale The Biohazard Brewing Company Sure its gonna kill ya, but who wants to live forever? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 17:51:15 -0700 (MST) From: The Fruit Fly Guy <woodstok at rupert.oscs.montana.edu> Subject: Re:Prohibition Revisited - not I just had to throw in my two bits on this. [snip] >...Students with an "A" average consume 3.5 drink/week... students with >"D" and "F" grades consume 11 drinks/week on average. First, I'm going to make the assumption (yes, it's a big one) that this was a study done based on willingness to answer and will always give a biased result. Second, just because A and B happen at the same time doesn't mean that A causes B or vice versa. >Mr. So and So (sorry, i forgot your name) got and "A" average while >consuming more than 11 drinks per week... this must be propaganda in >the works. Just because one person got and "A" average while drinking more than 11 alcoholic beverages doesn't mean that everyone else can or should - this is anecdotal(sp?) evidence. Third, this person/study doesn't mention whether or not these drinks are consumed all at once (binge drinkers) or throughout the week (casual drinking), which can make a difference. Fourth, it's just an average - statistics can be used to say just about anything you want if you fiddle with the numbers enough (my own conservative POV). Moral of the story - You don't need a study to tell you how much to drink each week to be a success... or to avoid failure. Just go with what works for YOU. Sorry for the anality of this, but i just hate it when people go jumping around making rash conclusions. Take everything with a grain of salt, as the saying goes. Dave Life's a beer. So brew it up... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 16:58:53 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Advice on Cherry Beer (liquori) >liquori at ACC.FAU.EDU (Kevin) writes: >I am a novice brewer interested in creating a cherry flavored beer. I am >an extract/partial mash brewer and do not have the facilities for a lager >What I would like to know is if anyone has brewed this before? Is there a >better recipe out there? I am looking for a beer that is fairly sweet, is >this a good choice? Most importantly, does anyone have any experience >brewing with cherries (or other fruit) and hints on the process? I am an I haven't brewed Papazian's 'Cherries in the Snow', but I have made Miller's 'Fruit Ale' from Brewing The World's Great Beers. In that recipe, you essentially make a wheat ale, with a neutral yeast, add fruit to the secondary and allow to ferment a further month before racking again to clear. In my case, that was about 6 pounds of raspberries (frozen overnight to break down the cell walls- they fell apart themselves). The results were quite good. The colour and aroma is wonderful (in fact it's now 1.5 yrs old and the aroma is still strong). My complaint is that the flavour is too dry. The sweetness you are looking for may be difficult to achieve. It is my understanding that at least some Kriek beers are pasteurized and sweetened. Without kegging and forced carbonation, I am at a loss as to how to achieve such a result. I've considered adding an unfermentable sugar (like lactose?)... any thoughts anyone? Note: the batch mentioned was 5 gallons. Mail me if you want me to send the recipe. Dave Riedel Victoria, BC Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 07:09:00 -0500 From: jim.anderson at execnet.com (JIM ANDERSON) Subject: Hop Cultivation I'm hoping that someone can provide me with some leads for publications on hop cultivation and processing. I'll be starting some Perle and Saaz next week, but I'm woefully ignorant. I have zymurgy's special issue on hops (Vol. 13, No. 4, Special 1990) which provides a few tantalizing clues, but doesn't get down to specifics, e.g. water and light requirements, etc. Any leads toward *easily-accessible* sources will be *greatly* appreciated! Prost! - Jim (Hophead in search of his Holy Grail .... <g>) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 00:23:27 -0500 From: shelby & gary <gjgibson at ioa.com> Subject: calories from alcohol There has been a recent discussion about the caloric value of the = alcohol in beer. I had a discussion with a professor I had at NCSU in a = human nutrition class (Sarah Ash, PhD). Here are some clips of the = discussion. ME >My notes say that alcohol is basically treated like a drug and is, to = the=20 best of the bodies ability, flushed out of the system. This indicates = to me=20 that the body does not use the calories which alcohol contains=20 >(7 kcals/g), instead it is bombarded by liver enzymes and water to = detoxify=20 and is expelled from the body.=20 Dr. Ash I think where the confusion comes in is with respect to the RATE of=20 consumption. When consumed at a "moderate" rate (i.e., one to two drinks = per=20 hour, say), a greater fraction of the alcohol (though I am unable to = tell=20 you how much precisely) IS seen by the body as a "nutrient", that is, a=20 potential energy source, yielding 7 kcal/g. There is some evidence, = though=20 others have disputed it, suggesting that the body will utilize alcohol=20 calories BEFORE fat calories, thus "sparing" the fat calories for future = storage as body fat. However, as the rate of alcohol consumption increases, the liver=20 (specifically the enzyme alcohol dehygrogenase, among others) kicks in = as=20 part of the body's defense against toxins. At this point, alcohol is no=20 longer providing calories, in fact it is REQUIRing calories for its=20 metabolism. There is also evidence that alcohol can increase metabolic = rate, thus further muddying the calorie-counting waters, as you've indicated=20 yourself further down. ME > I will digress for a minute to say that this causes a lose of the B=20 complex vitamins and water in the body. You get a hangover headache = because=20 of the lack of glucose getting to the brain and you feel shaky or have = low=20 energy because B vitamins are responsible for the metabolism of fats, = carbos=20 and protein. Dr. Ash That's interesting, though I'm not so sure about the B vitamin part. The = B=20 vitamin most related to alcoholism is thiamin, whose absorption is=20 signficantly decreased by ethanol. The alcoholic "shakes" are actually = due=20 in part to a thiamin deficiency (beri beri)and public health officials = at=20 one time considered "fortifying" fortified wines, like Thunderbird, with = thiamin. I'd be surprised, however, if your average "casual" drinker was = under-supplied with respect to thiamin or any of the other B vitamins=20 (especially since BEER is such a good source for many of them!!) ZINC is = the=20 nutrient most associated with alcohol detoxification (alcohol = dehydrogenase=20 is a zinc-dependent enzyme); in fact, it's been suggested that some of = what=20 is seen in fetal alcohol syndrome is actually the result of zince = deficiency=20 during fetal growth resulting from a diversion of maternal zinc to = maintain=20 the enzyme's activity.=20 ME > People brewing at home do not have as bad a problem with this because = their beer is unfiltered and contains yeast in suspension and as = sediment=20 (yeast is high in B complex vitamins). Dr. Ash What I have heard about hangovers has more to do with the so-called=20 congeners in alcoholic beverages, though I'm not sure any one really = knows=20 what causes them. ME >Back to the problem at hand. Alcohol contains 7 kcals/g, but does the = body=20 take up 7 kcals/g from the alcohol or does this figure come from the=20 chemistry lab. Dietary fiber has 4 kcals/g if I am not mistaken, but = these=20 calories are not absorbed by the body and used for energy. Is it the=20 same for alcohol as well? If this is not true and=20 the body does get calories from alcohol, is 7 kcals/g accurate. Would = the=20 energy the body uses to get rid of the alcohol, the heat given off by = these=20 processes, or any other factors in these reactions be taken into=20 consideration when determining the calories the body gets from the = actual=20 alcohol itself. You said that the caloric equivalent of a six pack of = beer=20 would be 10 slices of bread. Until shown otherwise, I will assume that=20 these calories come from the grain extractions, the left over sugars, = and=20 other additives, but not from the actual alcohol itself. Dr. Ash You are right to remember that there are more than just alcohol calories = in=20 beer (as well as wine). Beer guts aside, I can tell you that studies = have=20 failed to show differences in body weights between drinkers and=20 non-drinkers. So maybe, in the end, it's all a moot point. It is, like=20 coffee and caffeine, a very difficult area to study because few people=20 consume JUST alcohol -- how do you separate all the other factors (not = the=20 least of which are differences in personality types between different = types=20 of drinkers !!) I hope that this can help all the people that inquired on the subject. Russell, our skepticism yielded positive results on our part. I cannot = get the exact proportions of how much alcohol is used by the body as a = calorie source because no one knows exactly. These values would be = different from person to person anyway.=20 Shelby Asheville, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 07:27:59 -0500 (EST) From: Al Paglieri <bq359 at freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Carbonation > > Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 13:23:11 EST > From: "FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS" <BFINLEY at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU> > Subject: carbonation process > > I have just bottled my first batch of homebrew last week. > How long does it take for the brew to carbonate? Are there any signs > that ensure that proper carbonation is occuring? When I bottled, the > pale ale smelled wonderful and I can't wait to find out how everything > is going to turn out. If you primed with dextrose it should take about a week or two at room temps. You should begin to see some sediment in the bottom of the bottle. What I do is crack one open every once in a while to "see" how its coming along. Cheers, Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 08:09:31 -0500 From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: RE: Stovetop steeper and head retention Hi all, Bill Gladden writes: >I have not yet found a good source of detailed information on >adjuncts and suspect this is one avenue to pursue in the quest >for more body and head retention in my extract brews. > >Currently I'm a stovetop steeper and a firm believer in holding >crystal malt at target temp for 30 min. v. the remove when it >starts to boil method. While this certainly has added a fresher >taste to the beer and a little more body, head retention is still >pitiful. > >Any leads on good adjunct info. sources or suggestions on other >ways to enhance head retention in extract brewing would be >appreciated. I have been a extract/stovetop steeper for some time and if I want better head retention I always include 1# of wheat malt DME in my fermentables list. Lately I have been moving towards partial mashing in order to have a greater degree of control in malt flavors and original S.G. . Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <-- ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 08:20:31 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Bukofsky <scott.bukofsky at yale.edu> Subject: Estimating Color Now that I am doing some mashing, I am wondering if there is some easy method of estimating the final color of the beer. I am guessing that by knowing the Lovibond ratings of the various grains involved, you can guess the final color. Is there a simple way to calculate this? More importantly, is there a reference somewhere that has commercial beers and their color, so that I know what a particular number really means? Thanx, Scott New Haven, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 10:10:38 -0500 From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: RE: 1-800-SWIG-BUD,immerson chiller,priming with DME Hi all, Bob Wilcox asks about using DME for priming, your quantity of 1.25 cups of DME sounds correct (for a 5 gallon batch) and 68-70^F is suitable for bottle conditioning an ale. Three weeks is a minimum for DME priming, wait a couple more weeks, if the yeast count is very low from the gelatin finning it can slow down the process but it should still carbonate with time. Another tip is to raise the storage temp into the low to mid 70's for a week of so. Jim Mirsky asked about the best diameter copper tubing for a homemade immersion cooler, 3/8" or 5/16" are generally used since they can be easily formed in the home shop and provide a decent amount of surface area in proportion to their flow capacity. As a hint try forming the coil around a paint can or other suitable object. The length should be long enough to provide the maximum heat exchange area but not so long that the coil extends above the liquid level in you brew pot. (NOTICE: This is a joke, it is only a joke. Should this have been a serious comment you would have been advised to pay serious attention!) Just a quick question for Pat Babcock, how much did that SWIG-BUD 800 line cost ya? Should be an outstanding succes, especially if you concentrate your advertising on this forum! Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <-- ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 06:01:44 PST From: Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com (Rosenzweig,Steve) Subject: Re: straining trub/slow carbonation David Whitwell brought up straining trub from wort in HBD 1988. I also use a concentrated wort method, but never strain out the trub from the wort prior to transferrring to the secondary. I just pass the trub on in the wort to the primary fermentor - what do I know? Maybe the yeasties _like_ it there! When I rack to the secondary the trub will either be left at the bottom, or spooged around the neck of the primary due to blowoff. If you are careful when you siphon, little to no trub will make it to your secondary. I have read of people that allow the whole wort to sit awhile to settle out, and then transfer to the primary prior to pitching the yeast. But, while providing some aeration, this seems like one too many steps for me to worry about! One thing to keep in mind though, is the lost volume due to the trub. If you meticulously follow the measurements of a 5 gallon recipe - chance are you'll end up with less than 5 gallons at bottling time. I use a 6.5 gal primary for this reason - putting nearly 6 gal of wort into the primary - then when I transfer to the 5 gal secondary I have 5 gal! You might want to adjust your recipe slightly for the increased volume (add some DME, hops) if you are a real stickler for recipe/style guidelines. (Style - what style? This is a _drinkin_ beer! 8*) *********************************************** Bob Wilcox wanted to know about carbonation rates using DME in HBD 1989. One thing to watch when priming with DME (and I assume gyle as well) is that it will take _much_ longer to carbonate than with corn sugar, so plan accordingly. I remember the reason being that at that stage the yeast can more easily consume the corn sugar than more malt. Also, for you all-malt enthusiasts, such a relatively small amount shouldn't give perceptible off flavors. Sorry for the anecdotal evidence without reference, I don't want to step on anyone toes! If anyone remembers the proper reference, feel free to correct me! I made a lager (Cat's Meow 3 - Red Hickory Lager) that I bottled on 1/27 with about 1.5 cup DME and have kept at room temp (70F) since. As of last saturday - about 7 weeks in the bottles - there is just starting to be some carbonation. Once, if ever, it fully carbonates, it may be my best batch ever, of a light lager style. I did split the batch - some were kept in the basement - and they have significantly less carbonation (the old pffffft test again 8) . . . so I think it may turn out ok in the end. As a comparison point - a cream ale I bottled 2 weeks ago and primed with corn sugar is already more carbonated than the lager! One method that I use to test the carbonation level is to bottle 4-5 smaller 7 oz bottles (OV splits) as samplers. Then when I inevitably get itchy and want to test after less than a week, I can without wasting a whole beer. Usually I'll sample at one week intervals - and heck - if I've been on a brewing/bottling binge, I can have up to 4-5 different samplers ready for testing at a time! ********************************** Thanks to all on HDB - it really is a wonderful resource!! Stephen Rosenzweig Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 09:12:25 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at burp.org> Subject: Re: Reusing Yeast One small issue I have heard about from a couple of microbreweries that continue reusing their yeast for hundreds of continuous batches. Determining what point they harvest the yeast for the next batch. One brewer told me they had problems reusing until they figured out the best point in the process to harvest the yeast (I think they started by dumping the next batch on the dregs of the first, and moved to harvesting large quantities early in the primary fermentation process, but don't quote me.) I suspect that all the talk about mutations, adaptations, etc. are all going to be influenced somewhat by what the yeast have been doing recently and their current environment. Of course, this is obvious, but so is much of what I say <grin>. John DeCarlo, My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at burp.org Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 08:46:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Patrick E. Humphrey 708-937-3295" <HUMPHREY.PATRICK at igate.pprd.abbott.com> Subject: Iron in Water Hi, I have enjoyed the recent postings on water mineral characteristics and hope they continue. I do have a question about iron in brewing water. Our water comes from a city well. I haven't had my water tested for mineral levels but I know that it has a higher level of iron than normal. As an example, about three months ago I purchased a small white plastic humidifier and it already is orange from rust stains. How will this rust affect the taste of my beer? Many have written about using whole house filters to remove other ions but none of them have mentioned anything about iron. I do have a water softener installed in the house but it doesn't seem to make a difference with rust stains, especially on the shower curtain. Any comments are appreciated, Thanks, Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 08:18:00 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Coen <COEN.MICHAEL at igate.pprd.abbott.com> Subject: Sour Mashing Thanks to all who responded to my yeast inquirey. I am new to this forum and understand that recipes are not looked favorably upon but I received so many responses that I thought I would post this sour mashing technique for anyone interested. This technique will add a zing to any dry stout recipe. This technique is basically what Papazian writes in his second edition. In the first, he writes to sour a whole batch but this can result in 5 gallons of very sour brew.......which can be blended with another batch when drinking to achieve the same goal. This technique and recipe is not a Guinness but then again if it were that easy they wouldn't be the best. First, make a small amount of wort with a sg = 1.070-1.080. Last time I did this I mashed in 2.1 quarts of water: 1.2 lbs. 2-Row Malt, 0.07 lb. 40L Crystal Malt, 0.07 lb. Cara-Pils, 0.11 lb. Roasted Barley, and 0.036 lb. Black Patent: at 120F for 20 minutes, 152F for 60 minutes, and 170F for 5 minutes. I then sparged through a kitchen strainer and collected about0.75 gallon which was boiled with about 0.5 oz. Golding hops. This was cooled and a healthy yeast 100 ml yeast starter cultuer added and fermented for a couple of days down to SG=1.025. Then I racked this off the trub, added a handful of 2-Row Malt and aerated very very well and let this sour to completion at 70-75F. The final SG was 1.000. I pasteurized this at 170F for 30 minutes, cooled and bottled about 4 12 oz. bottles which serves as my stock. I carefully open a bottled and add 3-5% (10-15 ml) to each bottle of a regular stout recipe. I have heard of people using yogurt culture for souring of if you are a good microbiologist can use lactobacillus and acetobacter cultures. I am and I don't.....easier to throw in a little grain. Here is a recipe that I've tried for a regular Irish Dry Stout....... mind you this is an extra stout because the gravity is over 1.050....... 7.25 lbs. British 2-Row Malt, 1.0 lb. American 2-Row Malt, 0.5 lb. 40L Crystal Malt, 0.5 lb. Cara-Pils, 1.1 lb. Roasted Barley, 1.5 lb. Flaked Barley, 0.75 oz. Northern Brewer hops 70 minutes, 1 oz. Golding hops 70 minutes (a total of about 50 IBU) , irish moss 20 minutes, gypsum according to your water. I mash at 98F for 20 minutes, 122F for 20-30 minutes, 155F for 60-70 minutes, and 170F for 5 minutes. I sparge with about 6 gallons of 170-180F water. Boil with hops as indicated, force cool, pitch yeast, and ferment: 5-7 days primary and 10-20 days secondary. Bottle with 0.67 cup corn sugar per 5 gallons and add some of the soured mash brew at 3-4%......this is nice because one can tweek the amount to achieve the desired amount of acidity. I use the Sierra Nevada yeast strain because it is cleaner. I tried the Irish Ale starin but didn't like the higher fusel alcohols I was getting while fermenting at 64F...... I've been meening to play with this yeast a little more. Like I said its not a Guinness but something I am very proud to serve. Hope this helps many of you out..........kick back and have a homebrew and remember to experiment and keep good notes and if it tastes good to you that's all that matters......... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 16:32:52 +0100 From: johan.haggstrom at ped.gu.se dv (Johan H\dggstr\vm) Subject: Sam Adam's Triple Bock Eric Dreher mentions SA Triple (HBD #1985) > According to my Encyclopedia of Beer (BTW I have found to be >a wonderful source of information. Christine P. Rhodes, ED 1995) >Sam Adam's Triple Bock is the strongest lager beer in the world at >18.3 percent by volume (OG 39.5/1.168 FG 9.5) How do they get this high alcohol content? What yeast is used? How is it handled? Anyone.. Johan Haggstrom Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 9:20:40 MST From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: canned cherries Lee A. Kirkpatrick wrote: > ...and substituting 5 lb of canned, pitted tart cherries in water > (no sugar or syrup). I think it's the type of cherries causing the lack of flavor, not the fact that they were canned. I have made a number of brews using fresh cherries, both tart pie cherries and bing cherries. The tart cherries simply don't add a whole lot of rich cherry character to a beer. I found that eating cherries like bings work much better for imparting "cherry-ness" to the brew. If you still want that tartness, you can use about 40% pie cherries. You'll still want the remainder to be sweeter eating cherries, though, to get a good cherry aroma and taste. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Think! It ain't illegal yet." -- George Clinton Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:22:10 -0500 (EST) From: WOLFF%eclus.DNET at tron.bwi.wec.com Subject: Free Bottles If anyone would like some 22oz Rolling Rock bottles for free please e-mail me for more details on pick-up. I live in the Balto.-Wash area (Ellicott City) and have quite a few bottles in excellent condition. Bob Wolff wolff at eclus.bwi.wec.com 410-765-3098 Work Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Mar 96 11:28:23 EST From: "Roger A. Becker" <102425.3003 at compuserve.com> Subject: Strong Scotch Ale Hello out there. Since joining the HBD, not so long ago, I have been inspired to make two partial-mash batches (with great success), having previously been a determined, extract (with crushed grains for flavor etc) brewer only, mostly due to time constraints. You folks have been very helpful to me so far, in answering my questions posted to the group, and so I am seeking information again. Would anyone be willing to share with me their favorite partial-mash recipe for a Strong Scotch Ale. My all-extract brews have been well received by all, but would like to experiment with a partial-mash. Secondly, could anyone who has more patience than I, relate to me how to access a partial-mash list of recipes from the Cat's Meow. None of the queeries I have tried have been successful, and as I have to pay for telephone service to access the Internet, I give up before really getting much done. Thanks and private E-Mail is great. Rog Return to table of contents