---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Hoogstraten Poorter Comments (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
  re: Art's Carbonator Problem (tgaskell)
  Wild Rice Beer (Mike Urseth)
  Beer Nutrients / Bud billboard ("Edmund C. Hack")
  Homebrew Chat on the www (ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT)
  Re: Sam Smith skunks plaid clad fermenters ("Patrick G. Babcock")
  Cool Tap Handles (Summary) ("Clark D. Ritchie")
  Floating "sediment" question (Michael_Evans)
  Non Alcoholic Beverages.... (Aesoph, Michael)
  Subject: Kegs - Ball vs. Pin Lock ("Brian P. Colgan")
  Guiness Screen Saver - Windows (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
  Malt Aroma (John Forbes)
  glucans/proteins (Jim Busch)
  Hefeweizen Recipe? ("Patrick E. Humphrey")
  Re: Long slow fermentation, Bottling for competition (Jim Dipalma)
  Samuel Adams' Cream Stout (Bob Grabhorn)
  Chill Haze (RHEINZ)
  Why Some Clear-bottled Beer Does Not Become Lightstruck (Ken Parsons)
  Possible <gasp> infection? (Craig Stewart)



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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:49:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com>
Subject: Hoogstraten Poorter Comments


This past weekend I enjoyed a beer new to me, finding it tasty
and intriguing in profile.  Yes, it is Belgian in origin.

::Hoogstraten Poorter, brewed by Brewery Sterkens in Hoogstraten.

For those who have tried it, what did you think?  It seems to be
unique, reminiscent of an Abbey dubble to me...golden but with
more amber striations...not highly attenuated like Duval, etc.
This beer being unlike a "typical" porter, I wonder if its label
of porter was meant to imply this beer's kinship to an Abbey ale
without any of that "was it then truly Monk-brewed in the Abbey?"

I'd be interested in any of your impressions of this product!
Private Email is probably most appropriate.

Dave in Indy
Home of the "3-D BBB"


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 10:25:18 EDT
From: tgaskell at e3sa.elab.syr.ge.com
Subject: re: Art's Carbonator Problem

In HBD #2019, SSLOFL at ccmail.monsanto.com sez:

>       3  Let sit for 1 or 2 days at 30 psi (high CO2 on purpose)

etc., regarding using a Carbonator to force carbonate root beer 
in 2 Liter bottles.

May I humbly suggest that you re-pressurize the bottles to 30 psi 
at least once a day, for the first few days that you chill them.  
I have not used bottles for root beer in a while (don't ask, it 
was REALLY bad), instead I force carbonate 4 gallons of RB in a 
5 gallon corny keg (more headspace and surface area for the CO2 
to be absorbed).

The amount of CO2 that was dissolved into the RB was amazing, and 
RB requires quite a bit of CO2 to form a good head, at least a lot 
more than beer.  Also, chilling allows more CO2 to dissolve into 
the liquid.  After a day or so in the fridge with a single blast 
of CO2, the bottles will become pretty squishy with most of the CO2 
absorbed into the RB.

My kids (I swear the kids are "Root Beer Geeks") made faces before 
the carbonation was where they wanted it (they would probably call 
a cask conditioned bitter flat), but now they are into the stuff 
all the time.  Pretty soon they should have the keg emptied, then 
I can fill it with wit!   8^)

Cheers,

Tom Gaskell    Hog Heaven Homebrew Picobrewery    Clayville, NY, USA

"What we don't like are crafty marketers duping the consumers."
                                 - August Busch IV. 

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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:30:08 -0600
From: beernote at realbeer.com (Mike Urseth)
Subject: Wild Rice Beer

>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:14:40 -0500
>From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
>Subject: wild rice beer / Guinness screen saver
>
>A friend of mine recently asked me to search the net for information
>on brewing with wild rice.  Apparently he has a friend from up north
>that will be visiting him soon and they are bringing a big bag of

A couple of brewers in the Midwest make wild rice beer (James Page in
Minnesota and Capital Brewing of Middleton, WI). They both boil the rice up
ahead of mashing and add it to the mash tun. It does add an interesting,
sort of nutty, flavor.
They don't use anywhere near 1/2 wild rice, though. Maybe 5-10% maximum.

Good luck.

Mike Urseth
Editor & Publisher
Midwest Beer Notes
339 Sixth Avenue
Clayton, WI  54004
715-948-2990 ph.
715-948-2981 fax
e-mail:  beernote at realbeer.com



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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 07:11:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack at crl.com>
Subject: Beer Nutrients / Bud billboard

A couple of beer nutrient opinions and questions.

On Flavenoids: Flavenoids are, from what I have been able to gather, 
sort-of vitamins. There are lots of them, they are only now being 
understood. Some are believed to be anti-oxidants, which is why they are 
thought to help in preventing heart disease. The ranking of goodness in 
alcohol is, IIRC from an article in Wine Spectator:
 - Red wine - most help, high in flavenoids
 - Darker beers - good amount of help
 - White wine - pretty much tied with Dark beers
 - Lighter beers - some help
 - Distilled spirits - better than not drinking, it is thought that it is 
the alcohol that provides the protection. (BTW, cholesterol is an alcohol!)

The recommended "doses" are one to two glasses of wine or beer per day. 
Go much over that and there are bad effects. This may be the explanation 
for why heart disease rates are lower in France, where the diet is pretty 
unhealthy by US standards. The latest piece of evidence that helped the 
FDA to come over to recommending moderate alcohol consumption was a long 
term study in Denmark of 10-20K adults that confirmed all this. My guess 
is that the flavenoids would be found in the non-starchy parts of the 
grain. Beers brewed with adjuncts would be lower in them.

That said: Don't drink and drive. Fasten your seat belts. Remember the 
Pueblo!

A question on beer nutrition: I have a need to find out the carbohydrate 
content of beers for dietary reasons. The only one I have found is, alas, 
Miller Lite at 3.2 grams/can. Given that it is 1/3 less tasty, IMHO, than 
regular American Lager, I avoid it. Anyone know of where I can dig out 
this info? Info on Anchor, Red Hook and Celis products would be great.

Latest shot over the bow of small brewers: New billboard in town: A 
sweaty Bud longneck on it's side, with the caption: "Hand crafted at a 
brewery near you." With all due respect to the great job that AB does in 
producing a consistent product on a large scale, I don't really think of 
their brewery on I-10 as "hand crafting" beer in a 15 story plant with 
attached grain silos.

Edmund Hack - echack at crl.com - Houston, TX  
"Watching their faces, I was turning over aces." - Al Stewart


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:58:44 -0500
From: ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Homebrew Chat on the www

Hey all, 

I don't know if this will be a succes but I have added a Homebrew Chat to my
homebrew pages.

You can find it at:

http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/

Any input on the chat would be great.

There is one rule in the chat... NO PLAID.

Thanks,

Scott


####################################################
#		    Scott Abene			   #	
#                 skotrat at wwa.com		   #
#           http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat           #
# (Skotrats Official Homebrew "Beer Slut" Webpage) #
#         "Get off your dead ass and brew"         #
####################################################


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 10:59:31 -0400
From: "Patrick G. Babcock" <pbabcock at ford.com>
Subject: Re: Sam Smith skunks plaid clad fermenters

In hbd 2019, Dave Benson sez:

> Doesn't Samuel Smith Brewery (and probably other breweries) use clear
bottles?
> Why wouldn't these "skunk"?

To wit,delving deep into the pit of brewing knowledge, I spew forth the
following bit of incredibly relevant and previously hidden knowledge: They do.

- -------

On a more serious note:

Beware the plaid clad fermenters, yea verily! for they come.

The camera is no longer in position to "see" the fermenter where it has moved
to. A strange scuffling sound can be heard on the staircase. A noxious odor
creeps under the door ('course that could be that pile of laundry). I have not
the courage to open the door, but I fear that that soon will be inevitable...

Beware...

 -p
pbabcock at oeonline.com
(C) Copyright, copywrong - who's to say? It's a moral dilemma...

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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 08:12:38 -0700
From: "Clark D. Ritchie" <ritchie at ups.edu>
Subject: Cool Tap Handles (Summary)

All,

I received more requests to pass along responses on this topic than I did
actual leads.  Anyhow, here's a brief summary of the feedback I did get... CDR

******
Wade Wallinger <wawa at datasync.com>:
"I just received a catalog from the Golden Lion Authentic Pub Paraphernalia,
and they have a few, along with other stuff. They have a toll free number:
800-694-4255."

******
Gregg A. Howard <102012.3350 at CompuServe.COM>:
"The people who have lots of tap handles are the ones who set up and service
draft systems for your local taverns.  Look in the yellow pages under "Beer
Dispensing and Cooling Systems" and "Beverage Dispensers and Supplies".  You
also might try "Beer & Ale -- Whsle" and try to find a sympathetic salesman
who would help you out; the major brands are always trying to come up with
new eye-catching designs to induce impulse sales to "undecideds" who wander
up to a bar for a cold one."

******
Tim Martin <martin at wcu.campus.mci.net>:
"I see advertisements all the time in Zymurgy for handles and I believe
custom handles."

******
Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>:
"Many micros will sell you their handles.  I bought one each from Sierra and
Red Hook for about 25-30 bucks each.  I think Sierra does mail order."

******
Kerry Drake <KDDrakes at aol.com>:
"I found a company that makes the ceramic tap handles on the Web once while
I was surfing around for brewery stuff, I don't have the address or name any
more, but a web search should get you to them."

 ...so I checked it out (http://www.helix.net/chrislan/) and it looks like
they have pretty cool stuff.  However, they responded to my inquiry with:

"Sorry Clark, we only sell large quantities to Breweries.  Mind you for all
the requests I get we should start selling them to home brewers like your
self.  Maybe one day down the road."

******
Rich Byrnes <rich.byrnes at e-mail.com>:
"making your own is a neat way to go."
Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at ups.edu


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Date: 24 Apr 96 11:12:50 EDT
From: Michael_Evans at FRB-MAIN-2.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Subject: Floating "sediment" question

Hello to All,

I recently brewed and bottled my first beer (Bohemian Pilsner) with a 
friend that is quite experienced in the art of homebrewing.  After a week 
or so of letting the beer carbonate at room temperature, I decided to take 
a look at a bottle to note any activity (clearing up and sediment 
formation).  To my surprise, I found a bottle that had a thick, flowing 
object that was about 4-5 inches long and 1/2-1 inches wide floating in the 
center of my bottle.  I asked two other brewers about this phenomenon, but 
they had never heard of this nor could tell me why this happened.  After 
looking at other bottles and noticing a strong blanket of sediment, I 
thought something went on in that bottle that simply make the blanket float 
up and stand elongated.  

Is this a common occurrence?  If so, why does this happen?  Is it an 
indication that something may be wrong with that particular bottle of beer, 
like contamination?

By the way, I popped open my first bottle last night and was very pleased 
with my first creation.  Perfect color, carbonation, and hoppiness.

Happy Brewing,
Mike


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Date: 24 Apr 96 11:29:52 EDT
From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Subject: Non Alcoholic Beverages....

Dear Great Collective:



	I would like some recipes for non-alcoholic beverages such as root beer, 
cream soda, fruit flavored sodas, etc.  My wife used to enjoy home made 
beverages, but is now breast feeding.  I'd like something to substitute.  
I've checked Cat's Meow and some other smaller sites, but there's not 
much there.  Please advise!



				Mike Aesoph


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 11:17:26 EST
From: "Brian P. Colgan" <bcolgan at sungard.com>
Subject: Subject: Kegs - Ball vs. Pin Lock


Stephen Palmer writes:
Subject: Kegs - Ball vs. Pin Lock

"I know this was beaten to death a while back, but
I don't have access to the archives, and am about
to invest in a kegging system.  The store I am going
to buy from has both, with only a $1 price differance.
Which should I get?  Ball Lock, or Pin Lock?"

I just bought several Ball Lock kegs as part of a kegging system, for the 
main reason that they have a manual pressure release valve. I strongly 
recommend to anyone about to purchase a kegging system to buy the Zymurgy 
issue from last year that explores the topic.

brian


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 15:57:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com>
Subject: Guiness Screen Saver - Windows


For those with Windows machines, there is a great screen saver
I've just located.  It is comprised of a series of pictures
taken from a Guiness TV add, showing a patron waiting and waiting
for his Guiness to settle.  Pretty funny.  The URL for those interested:
	http://www.sirrus.com/~ratloaf/saver_az

Dave in Indy


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:07:24 -0700 (MST)
From: John Forbes <forbes at primenet.com>
Subject: Malt Aroma

A freind and I have been brewing Oktoberfests and Bocks for a year now.  
We have been fairly succesful with our efforts and even won a first place 
last weekend with our Dopple Bock.  We feel and the judges agree that the 
flavor profile is correct. What we are lacking is that wonderful 
malt/carmel aroma you find with the imported versions.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can improve and intensify 
the malt aroma.  I will summarize and post the results.

Thanks in advance,
John M. Forbes
forbes at primenet.com

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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:14:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: glucans/proteins

Dave writes about the "big stout":

Ingredients: (5 gal.)
>        10 lbs. British Pale Ale Malted Barley
>        1 lb.    Roasted Unmalted Barley
>        1 lb.    Flaked Barley
>        2 lbs.  Flaked Oats

<I think step mashing would be beneficial, given the large amount of
<unmalted barley and oats.  Was your sparge really sluggish?  Try a rest at
<about 140F.  This would help break down beta-glucans and excess protein.

The adjuncts are flaked products.  The base malt is highly modified
British Pale Ale malt.  Beta glucanase, which acts on beta glucans,
is active in a narrow band around 104F (40C).  Beta glucanase is mainly
active during malting and little to none survives in British Pale Ale malt.
(lager malts on the other hand do retain beta glucanase after kilning).
A rest above 135F will do little to change the protein composition of
the wort, particularly with pale ale malt.  This means that a rest at
140F will do little to alter either the glucan or protein composition
of the wort.

As for the necessity of a beta glucan rest when mashing flaked 
adjuncts, I just did two pilot brews using 25% flaked barley.  The
first employed the 40/50/60/70 schedule and the second a simpler
60/70 program.  Both worts lautered easily and the apparent degree
of attenuation in both cases was very close.  The total grist was
low with a target OG of 10P but with a well designed lauter tun using
a perf sheet bottom this should be possible with OGs in the 16P 
range at least.  Tasting the results I can say conclusively that
flaked barley is a fantastic addition to a stout recipe.

As for the rest of the recipe, Id eliminate the black malt and
reduce the chocolate malt to 1/8 lb.  I generally hate black malt
for anything other than coloring purposes.  YMMV.

Al writes:

<Firstly, Carapils and Dextin malts are very light caramel malts and yes,
<indeed this whole discussion does apply to all caramel (a.k.a. crystal)
<malts as well as dark malts.

US Dextrin malt, often called carapils malt is distinctly different from
the German caraHell or the Belgium caraPils malts.  The US versions will
break your tooth if bitten while the continental counterparts are indeed
very light caramel malts.  The glassy interior of the US version is
a different beast and another malt I tend to avoid at all costs.

Good brewing,

Jim Busch
 
                     A Victory For Your Taste!
     Victory Festbier, Brandywine Valley Lager and Hopdevil IPA
       Milltown Mild, Prima Pils and St. Victorious Doppelbock


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:21:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Patrick E. Humphrey" <HUMPHREY.PATRICK at igate.pprd.abbott.com>
Subject: Hefeweizen Recipe?

A friend of mine brought a very tastey Hefeweizen back for me from Germany 
and I was able to culture the yeast from it.  I would like to take 
advantage of this and brew an "authentic" Hefeweizen with this yeast.  

What percentage of wheat should I use and also what type of hops/amounts?

Would American 2-row be OK?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Pat


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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 11:19:12 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: Long slow fermentation, Bottling for competition



Hi All,

In HBD#2018, Denis Barsalo writes:

>I would like to enter some in competition
>so I can get some feedback from "decent" beer judging. My problem is, that
>I bottle exclusively with swing-top bottles (Grolsch like) and these are
>not usually accepted in competition.
>        Can someone please tell me why?

  Judging in a competition is done "blind", i.e., the judges are not supposed
to know the identity of the brewer. Swing-top bottles are considered to be
sufficiently "unique" so as to provide a possible clue to the brewer's 
identity. The same reasoning is applied to bottles with raised lettering, and
bottle caps that have not been "blacked out".
  This does vary from competition to competition, it's really up to the
organizer. I've judged at competitions that did not require that the caps be
blacked out, since the stewards were pouring and bringing the beer to the
judging table in pitchers. I've also seen competitions advertised that had no
restrictions on bottles, swing-tops, raised lettering, etc., was OK.
  So, you can either look for competitions that are more relaxed in this 
regard, or pick up a few standard bottles. Most competitions require only 3
per entry.

*****************************************************

Also in HBD#2018, TBrouns at aol.com writes:

>I started a wheat beer--dunkelweizen, actually, using an Irek's 6.6# can and
>another # of DME--on 29 March, 

>On the 18th of April I returned from my trip and the beer was still kicking!

>The SG is at about 1.008 now, and I know that's usually sufficient to bottle,
>but I'm afraid to bottle when it's still bubbling this steadily (about once a
>minute, realizing that all airlocks are probably different) for fear of a
>mess in about a week when the pressure has built up.

>Any
>Ideas?  TIA

Sure. Rather than guess what is going on, use your hydrometer. Wait a day or
so, then take another reading. If it's still ~1.008, the beer is done, go
ahead and bottle. If the SG dropped more than a point or two, wait two days,
then take another reading. When you get two consecutive readings a couple of 
days apart that are about the same, fermentation is done. I'm inclined to
think it's done at 1.008 though.

            Cheers,
              Jim              dipalma at sky.com

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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 15:28:52 -0700
From: Bob Grabhorn <grabhorn at olywa.net>
Subject: Samuel Adams' Cream Stout

Hello, gang.  Could those of you who've tried Sam Adams' Cream Stout 
recently comment on its diacetyl content?  I remembered it being much less 
noticeable in the Midwest than it is here in the Northwest.  A local brewer 
friend who just moved here from Boston says it's a lot better on the East 
Coast, and that the likely cause is variations between the breweries they 
contract.  Anybody noticed this?  Is this a plausible explanation?

Just curious,
Bob Grabhorn



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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:38:33 -0400
From: RHEINZ at aol.com
Subject: Chill Haze

Esteemed Brewers -

My question today concerns chill haze.  I recently brewed a partial extract
kit obtained at my local homebrew store.  It was an Extra Special Bitter
which got bottled on March 1 after a one week primary and a two week
secondary fermentation.  After about three weeks in the bottle, the beer
tasted great.  The only problem to note was that a distinct haze developed in
the bottles when placed in the refrigerator.  Now, I have noticed that after
the bottles are in the fridge for a certain period of time (a week or so),
the haze goes completely away leaving a beautiful amber, crystal clear brew.

Can anyone shed any light on what's going on here?   TIA.      

Ric  Heinz         Houston, Texas
rheinz at aol.com 

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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:10:07 -0700
From: Ken Parsons <klondike at sonnet.com>
Subject: Why Some Clear-bottled Beer Does Not Become Lightstruck

        The lightstruck (aka sunstruck, skunky, or import beer) flavor
arises when ultraviolet light from the sun or fluorescent bulbs cleaves the
3-methylbut-2enyl radical from the isohumulone molecule. Isohumulone is
isomerized alpha-acid that is the bittering agent of hops.  The cleaved
radical is then free to react with hydrogen sulfide or other sulfur
containing compounds to form isopentenyl mercaptan, that yummy aroma.

        Some breweries (I believe Miller is one, Samuel Smith, I'm not sure)
can reduce the isohumulone with sodium borohydride to form a secondary
alcohol known as the rho-isohumulones.  This compound is claimed to be less
susceptible to photolysis but also has less bittering power.

        Now that the chemistry lesson is over, let's quaff some fine malt
beverages.

                                        Klondike Ken 


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 23:43:05 -0300 (ADT)
From: Craig Stewart <foghorn1 at darwin.nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Possible <gasp> infection?

Folks,

I bottled a bitter a few days ago, and I put a couple in the green 
bottles, just so I could take a peak.  Today, I find that I have some 
things adhearing to the sides of the bottles.  Could this be:

1) The yeast working  to condition the beer, and it will fall out...

2) A possible <shudder> infection in my brew?

As this is the first time I can see THROUGH the beer in the bottle, (I 
like stouts and browns) am I just seeing something that always happens.  
My cleaning was the same as usual, bleach soak & rinse, but I had to 
bottle in the basement, because of my 'better half's' friends.  They 
think beer and especialy homebrewing is immoral.  If I didn't want to 
keep peace in the house, I'd down one in fromt of 'em!

Anyway, I just don't know what it is.  Who knows, maybe it will be the 
best batch yet!

Thanks.

- --
**************************************************************************
Non-Disclaimer: Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. 
The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence
of the reader is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.  (A
discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the scope
of this article.)
**************************************************************************  

flames to /dev/null

Craig Stewart
foghorn1 at mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca


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