HOMEBREW Digest #2031 Wed 08 May 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Kids!  Don't try this at home! (Woody Weaver)
  Hot Summer?  Who Cares? (KennyEddy)
  Missing Email (hollen)
  N2O for CO2 ? ("Albert van Sambeek")
  Thank You Rob (TArnott)
  Grain Mills (Marty Tippin)
  Re: road trip ("Dave Higdon")
  Re: Mills (Geoff Scott)
  corny keg repair / cleaning scortched wort / grain mills ("Keith Royster")
  geting the labels on. (Ed Dix)
  Subject: Kitchen Aid Grain Mill (Scott Abene)
  Extraction Yield Sucks! (Denis Barsalo)
  Re: HBD/AOB, Hoover Universal keg (Chris Cooper)
  Water analysis (John Wilkinson)
  SanFran Brewpub Suggestions ("James S. Bayer")
  "Forever Plaid" (Kathy Booth)
  Stuck Sparge (Jack Schmidling)
  Jack's Offer ("Decker, Robin E.")
  Grain mill selection (John Wilkinson)
  honey malt (Paul Brian)
  Sunshine Challenge Results (Ron Raike)
  cheesey/aluminum/fermenting in Cornys/priming/Kitchen Aid grain mill (Algis R Korzonas)
  Please unsubscribe Jake from your mailing list. (Russell Mast)
  Re: Lagering in corny (Dennis Cabell)
  screens for keg lauter tun (Ken Johnson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 May 96 18:07 PDT From: Woody Weaver <woody at altair.stmarys-ca.edu> Subject: Kids! Don't try this at home! Greetings, everyone. Ah, the perils of brewing big brews without thinking! Clearly, I made a number of mistakes in that batch, and I wanted to summarize for the net. (Some of the authors also commented to the digest, so some of these points are repeated.) IMHO, the errors in order of importance: 1. Don't dry hop in the primary. My intent was to have a nice clean secondary, to facilitate a clearer beer. As was pointed out, not only did I not achieve the objective (since the outgassing of CO2 tends to remove the hop aromas) but I ran a real risk of infection. Dry hopping in the secondary minimizes the problem of the CO2 scrubbing out the hop aromatics, and in addition the alcohol content and the high yeast count helps keep the yeast tops in the ecological niche, minimizing the risk of infection. That was a definate no. 2. Don't _expect_ to have to use the champagne yeast. The particular yeast I used, Wyeast Belgian Abbey, is fairly alcohol tolerant. The wort may want fresh yeast as it gets close to the end, or it may progress normally (in practise, for this experiment, all seems well). The champagne yeast should be considered last resort to fix a stuck fermentation. 3. Pitch big. When doing high gravity beers, it appears the higher the pitching rate the better. I did a little 250 ml pitch. One correspondent suggested 1.5 liters of yeast slurry! Probably the best idea (that I intend to use next time I try a really big beer) is to brew something like an India Pale Ale and throw the high gravity wort on the dregs. Curiously, I did almost that with a 1.090 Imperial stout -- brewed a sweet stout with the Wyeast Scottish Ale yeast, and then through the 1.090 on top of its dregs. It (predictably) exploded out through the airlock, and all over the floor... but brought the 1.090 down to a dry 1.018 after a two week primary/secondary. 4. Think numerically about the hopping rate. Unfortunately, I didn't -- and its clear I underhopped. Had I thought about it, I probably should have used Tinseth's calculator, and checked the style guidelines for typical numbers. It really didn't strike me that the beer has almost *half again* as much sugar as the imperial, and so probably wants something like half again as much HBU. Kids! Try this at home! On the good side, I managed to not worry too much about it (can you say "learning experience"? Sure. I knew you could.) and at this point I'm pretty happy about how things are going. Yesterday, I went to the friendly neighborhood brew store (quick plug: BREW, on Marina just west of 880 in San Leandro, San Francisco Bay area -- nice place, about 10,000 sq ft, fresh extract for $1.39/lb, nice owners, lots of extra junk, no affiliation etc just happy customer) and picked up a glass carboy. I racked the brandywine into the carboy. At this point, its at 1.052 and still bubbling happily -- about a bloop per minute through the S-shaped airlock (as opposed to 10-20 bloops per minute at peak fermentation). The tasting at this point showed that it wasn't in fact infected, was already pretty high-alcohol, and was indeed too sweet. (One correspondent suggested hopping the heck out of some wort, and bittering the brandywine that way, but I think I'm going to keep it as it is -- spouse likes sweet.) So far, so good. Incidentally, this is my first experience with this yeast. The brandywine has a unique taste which is I assume the yeast. I strongly associated it with North Coast Brewing's seasonal "PranQster" beer. (NCB is a brewpub/microbrew in Ft. Bragg, CA.) Does anyone know if this is the same yeast as they use? Can anyone tell me of a commercial brew that uses this yeast available in the SF Bay area? (One correspondent mentioned that this is the Celis yeast, but I am not aware of seeing Celis available for sale here.) Thanks to the HBD and all who responded to my query. I think you all have improved my beer making technique. Thanks! - --woody Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 00:12:38 -0400 From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Hot Summer? Who Cares? Well, now, with all the talk about National Homebrew Day being May or Fall or hot or whatever, I thought I'd toss in another shameless plug for my "Fermentation Chiller", plans for which are available at http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/lagcab.html Keeps beer fermenting happily at 60 - 70 deg F even when it's 90F in the garage! Or ferment at lager temperatures if you have a cool basement. Holds fermenting wort temp to ~2F variation. It's just a glorified chambered icebox with a thermostat and fan, and it "runs" on two gallon jugs of ice. Surprisingly efficient (change the ice ~2 days when it's 90F ambient; 3-4 days when 75-80F), inexpensive to build ($60 or so with brand new material; much less if parts are "scrounged"), compact (16" x 2' x ~3'), lightweight (lift with one hand...store it in the attic or a closet in the non-National Homebrew Months). In the year or so since I originally published the plans, I've received some feedback from folks who have built one (or more). A couple good ones to keep in mind: * Tie a string to the handle of the lower water jug. My arms are long but it's still a reach to get that one out! * If using a liquid-metal thermometer, mount it to the cabinet with Velcro to make re-levelling (for accuracy) easier if it's moved. * Use duct tape on the seams, and cover with loud (but NOT plaid) contact paper. * Use a heavy book instead of dowels to secure the top. A good fit on the front panel eliminates the need for them there too. * You could substitute 1/2" plywood for the Fan Board, and 1/4" for the Baffle Board. The Fan Board needs only to be somewhat insulative (since it's inside the box); the Baffle Board merely redirects airflow. This might make resizing the cut plan easier to use with various fermenter shapes. * Add a condensation drain (a hole with a short length of tubing) at the bottom of the Ice Chamber. In our dry environment this isn't much of a problem but a Chiller in Mississippi in August will likely need to take a leak. This weekend project has enabled me to keep my cool while brewing year round. I used it all last year in 100+F heat and we're already having 95-ish temperatures here in El Paso, so I know it'll work well in milder parts of the country. Ken Schwartz KennyEddy at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 May 96 08:27:18 PDT From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Missing Email Since Thursday, about three people sent me Email that I have not gotten a chance to reply to. This morning when I went to reply to it, those messages were gone. If you are expecting a reply from me and have not yet gotten it, please resend. dion Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 96 11:53:45 +0100 From: "Albert van Sambeek" <avs at beta.fuji-ef.nl> Subject: N2O for CO2 ? Hello fellow homebrewers I'm a Dutch homebrewer and I have beer in a 5 Liter keg (about 2 gallon). I found a lot of N2O patrons (?), and now I have the next question. Can I use N2O instead of CO2 for my keg ? I know that the same question was asked a few HBD's ago, but I don't remember the answer. Albert "Sam's Brew" van Sambeek The Netherlands Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 07:12:03 -0400 From: TArnott at aol.com Subject: Thank You Rob I wanted to get in line to say thanks to Rob. I'm mostly a lurker/sometimes poster, but I realize what a great job he's done keeping this thing going. Thanks Rob, have a great time over seas! ***************** My 0.02: Lets give the AOB a chance. After all he's done, we should put Rob in a position to feel guilty. Shawn sent his post that he's working with Rob to maintain the HBD as it is now, and with so many readers, it'll be known quickly if this is not the case. I think (and I may be way off base here) that if the HBD starts to skunk, there will be an HBD II starting up. :::Now donning asbestos undergarments::: ***************** Now on a personal note: I'll be heading to Denver in June for a wedding. Since I'm going sans wife and kid, I'll have about 2 days to fill. Any suggestions? I heard the AHA offices are in Denver, are they worth visting? Any good Micros/Pubs to head to? Private e-mail is ok. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 07:45:22 -0500 From: Marty Tippin <martyt at sky.net> Subject: Grain Mills Just wanted to add the Valley Mill to the list of available grain mills - it's a new dual-roller, adjustable mill somewhat similar to the JSP MaltMill. I've got one and have used it on the last 4 batches or so with great success - gives a very nice crush, high throughput and basically trouble free. The crush is quite similar to that of the MaltMill the local homebrew store has which I used to use. Overall, I really like the mill - one of the nicest features is a much larger grain hopper than any other mill I've seen - I can get around 4 or 5 lbs. of grain in it at once, so it's not as much of a chore as other mills. The locking adjustable rollers are quite nice also - there are about 8 adjustments in all, giving plenty of range for wheat, barley, etc. - and one of the best features is the price: $99 plus shipping (from Canada, about $20). I recently motorized mine using a GE "Minagear" motor (used surplus, ~$25, 172 RPM at 40 in-lb torque, available from Surplus Center - contact me if you need the phone number since I don't have it handy). The motor works great and frees me from having to crank by hand. The mill also comes with an adaptor for your hand drill, but I got tired of wrangling that thing. They've got a web page at: http://www.web.apc.org/~valley/valleymill.html Now, the astute reader will note that I wrote the web page for the Valley Mill and thus probably am a bit biased. Well, for the record: 1.) I'm not the manufacturer, just a satisfied customer. and 2.) I only offered to help them get a page online after I had ordered, paid for, and used my mill. That's how impressed with it I was... -Marty martyt at sky.net http://www.sky.net/~martyt Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:55:54 EST From: "Dave Higdon" <DAVEH at qesrv1.bwi.wec.com> Subject: Re: road trip Here are some places in DC: The Brickskeller, it has the largest selection of bottled beers in the world (over 800). Capital City Brewing Co Dock Street Brewing Co Bardo's Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:01:04 -0400 From: gscott at io.org (Geoff Scott) Subject: Re: Mills In Digest 2030, Dave Harsh wrote: >Right now, you essentially have four grain mills to choose from: >Corona, PhillMill, Brewers Resource, and Schmidling. Where have you been for the last year, Dave? The Valley Mill was introduced in early 1995. I've been putting this adjustable two roller mill through its paces for the last couple of months and am quite pleased. Today, I'm scanning some pictures for the much promised update to my page. There should be some new mill pictures up by the end of the week. And by the way, no connection with Valley except we're both in Ontario, but that only means I paid more sales tax. regards, Geoff Scott gscott at io.org Brewing page http://www.io.org/~gscott Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:48:20 -0500 From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com> Subject: corny keg repair / cleaning scortched wort / grain mills Howdy fellow HBDers! I recently siphoned a batch from the secondary into a new (to me) corny keg only to find a pin-hole leak near the top. Apparently when this keg was sitting in the back of some restaraunt, some kids thought it amusing to shoot at it with their new Red Rider BB-gun. Most of the shot just dented it, but one created a small, almost undetectable crack in the dent. Anyway, does anyone know of a simple but safe way to fix this, short of taking it to a welder? I'm looking for something like a non-toxic glue that will bond strong enough with the SS to hold under the pressures of forced carbonation. I tried a hot-glue gun but that gave way after 3 days under pressure:) Fortunately I had a spare corny and was able to salvage most of that beer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Spinelli asks about removing scorched wort from his bottom (keg, that is). Mike, try using an oven cleaner foam. Should scrub right off after letting it sit for a few minutes. But be careful with the stuff (use gloves) and don't use it on anything aluminum. And clean your keg well afterwards. And on a similar note, does anyone know if such oven cleaners can be used to passivate SS? Isn't the active ingredient nitric acid? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- John Van Huffel asks about using a Kitchen Aid Grain Mill John, I've never used one, but I did inquire about the idea a long time ago before I bought my MaltMill. If I remember the responses correctly, it was that it creates too fine of a crush since it is made for milling flour. If its free, then maybe go ahead and try it. But if your buying one, you'd be better off spending that money on a mill made for milling barley. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- And on the subject of grain mills, David C. Harsh writes: > Personally,the PhillMill is the least expensive, can be easily > motorized Yes, but will motorizing it void any warranties? I'm asking, I don't know. I do know that Jack Schmidling's MaltMill has a lifetime warranty even if you motorize it, which, besides the quality of the crush, is why I bought one. > Any single pass mill is almost guaranteed to give the same sort of > size distribution. Why do you say this? Just curious, but it seems to me that roller length, roller spacing, and whether the spacing increases from one end to the other (or not) would at least effect the ease of use, if not also create noticable differences in the size distribution of the crushed grain. Keith Royster keith.royster at ponyexpress.com Mooresville, NC USA http://www.wp.com/ at your.service/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:46:01 -0400 From: edix at eve.assumption.edu (Ed Dix) Subject: geting the labels on. Viktor and All- Greetings from a lurker. (it sounds so mysterious...) I've found that (no endorsement, blah, blah, blah) 3M has a spray on product called something like Artist's Adhesive (the word temorary or repositionable may be in there, too). It acts like a spray on Sticky Note Pad glue. It fits all the criteria, 1) it's easy (although there is some over-spray when you have small labels) b) it lets the labels come off easily, and iii) it leaves no residue after water washing. (now that I'm almost caught up on week-old mail, I think I'll try a glue stick for the next batch.) ?Got enough info now? Thanks for the continued entertainment and information- -Ed. Ed Dix Big Trouble Brewing Holden MA (I'm sure some of you can imagine the boil-over that precipitated that name.) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 09:04:26 -0500 From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> Subject: Subject: Kitchen Aid Grain Mill >Date: Mon, 6 May 96 19:01:08 -0400 >From: John Van Huffel <van at dnaco.net> >Subject: Kitchen Aid Grain Mill > >Has anyone had any luck with the grain-mill attachment for the Kitchen >Aid Mixer? I have access to one, if I forgive a small debt, and it would >sure beat hand-cranking a phils-mill! >Van Van, My mom bought me this attachment for christmas. The thing works great and I get a very good grind. A couple of points: 1. You can only grind about 7-8 pounds of grain at a time because the motor overheats around this point. 2. Adjustment of the grinding plates is a little weird at first. 3. The grain reservoir is kind of small but some brainstorming on your behalf can fix this problem. Overall the Kitchen Aid mill is a pleasure to work with. -Scott #################################################### # ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT # # Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> # # http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat # # (Skotrats Official Homebrew "Beer Slut" Webpage) # # OR # # http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ # # (Skotrats Brew-Rat-Chat Homebrew Chat System) # # "Get off your dead ass and brew" # #################################################### Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:08:08 -0500 From: denisb at cam.org (Denis Barsalo) Subject: Extraction Yield Sucks! All grainers, I know I'm not suppose to worry about my extraction and just use more grain if it's too low, but this is the third recipe in a row that I end up with a much lower OG than expected. I buy my grain as I need it, so it's a little tricky now because I don't know how much to buy for my next recipe. I'm doing everything "by the book". Step infusion, mash out, sparge at the right temperature, at the "proper" rate, etc. I take a sample before I start boiling, figure out the math and WHAT! 22 pts!!?? I'm using 10 pounds of grain, how can that be. I've decided that it *must* be the crush. I'm using a grain mill at the homebrew store, and I have a feeling that it's set too loose. What does properly crushed grain *really* look like anyway? In the last batch I crushed, I remember seeing quite a few grains that seemed intact. Should I be seeing a few pulverised grains ? BTW, I'm assuming you figure out the math for extraction rate *before* you boil, right? TIA Denis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:38:18 -0400 From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: Re: HBD/AOB, Hoover Universal keg Hi all, Three cheers for Rob: Huzah! Huzah! Huzah! and thanks for the excellent job you have done. My comment to the new home for the HBD is, "AOB you've got a big set of shoes to fill, I hope that you will continue the Home Brew Digest as an open and free forum. " In the end the success or failure of this digest rest on our shoulders, those that lurk and contribute, not those of the service provider for it is the collective that through their comments and input create the heart and soul of the HBD. Now here's a toast to the next 2000 issues of the HBD, CHEERS! And now for a beer related issue, in HBD 2030 Jamie asked: >I just inherited a 15 gal keg from my brother. It's in good shape, >but has been sitting for a couple of years. I took a cursory look >at how to open it up for cleaning and re-filling, but don't see an >apparent and/or easy way. I was wondering if someone who knows might >be able to clue me in before I bugger up the valve with a pair of >vice-grips... >It's a 15.5 gal keg encased in a black plastic shell that's labeled >Hoover Universal 304L, as well as Miller Brewing Co. I have modified a Hoover Universal 304L "Miller Keg" for use in my brewery. If all you want to do is use this keg for a fermentor of serving keg then you need to remove the ball valve from the keg: To remove the valve and dip tube assembly us a screwdriver or an awl to remove the circular spring clip from the inside of the tapper fitting. Make sure that ALL PRESSURE IS RELEASED first !!! (or you could launch a valve steam into orbit or take an impressive beer bath, the second option is at least good for your hair) The valve stem is held in place by a spring clip. ***** -- -- === <- spring clip ***** | | | | ### <- valve and dip tube ***** | === === | --- <- keg wall and tapper fitting ***** | |# #| | *** <- rubber coating ******* | |########| | ******* ********* / |########| \ ********* *** -------------|########|-------------- *** ***| ## |*** ***| ## |*** ***| ## |*** ***| ## |*** The 304L on the keg signifies that the keg is manufactured from 304 stainless steel but note that it is not as thick a gauge of 304L as that used in more conventional kegs (the ones that are not rubber coated). I decided to remove the rubber coating and use my keg as a mashing kettle, this was not an easy process! After making many top-to-bottom cuts in the the rubber coating using a hack saw and a utility knife (be very careful to avoid cutting the metal or removing any important body parts, like fingers) I was able to peel the rubber away from the keg, I used a scotchbrite pad on a finish sander to completely clean the exterior of the keg and was rewarded with a very nice looking pot. One thing, these kegs are basically a 15 gal. oval tank once the rubber is removed, they have no handles or base ring welded to the tank, those functions are molded in the rubber so I had to design a burner stand with it's own supports to keep the tank upright. Although this type of keg conversion takes more effort the final result is worth it. Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <-- ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <-- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:39:55 -0500 From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> Subject: Water analysis A. J. deLange asked whether we thought discussions of water analysis were of general enough interest to be posted to hbd. To me, they are. Even though the particular analysis may not apply to my water, I feel that every time I read one of A. J.'s discussion of water chemistry I come a little closer to escaping my abysmal ignorance of the subject. There is a lot I don't know about water as it pertains to brewing and I would like to know more. As far as I am concerned, the bandwidth is better spent than on many things found in hbd. By the way, thanks Rob. I really appreciate the hbd and all the work you have done. John Wilkinson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:52:24 -0500 From: "James S. Bayer" <jbayer at lnb_dev.abn.com> Subject: SanFran Brewpub Suggestions I'll be in SanFran next week and I'm looking for suggestions for good brewpub/micros to visit. To save bandwidth, please e-mail your responses. Thanks. /----------------------------------------------------------------\ | Remember: Brewing is not a matter of life and death. | | It is much more important than that! | | ============================================================== | | Don't let your wife blame | Beer always tastes good | | anything on your home brewing | Hangovers always go away | | ============================================================== | | Jim Bayer -> Chicago, my kind of town! The windy city | | brewmstr at mcs.net | | (copyright 1996) | \----------------------------------------------------------------/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 11:33:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Booth <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us> Subject: "Forever Plaid" The musical show "Forever Plaid" toured thru our fair city and I went and enjoyed the great 40's and 50's "boy" tunes of male harmonization. Great Fun. See it if you like the better side of the 50's. However, I did experience a stuck fermentation and now I find out that a local theatre group is scheduling "Forever Plaid" on its theatre bill for the 96-97 season. I suspect it is a greater threat to brewing then the "summer" thread that weaves on and on. Question, did any of you experience stuck fermentations when the show toured your city? It may not have been related at all. Also, I really like it when contributors sign with first and last names. Scrolling up to see which Bob or Al it was is a PITA. It is even nice to have the email address at the end in case I want a private response, but thats not a biggie. Cheers Jim Booth, Lansing kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 11:00:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jack Schmidling <arf at maxx.mc.net> Subject: Stuck Sparge >From: blacksab at siu.edu >I had my second stuck sparge last night, and it was the same recipe that caused the first one, a Guinness-clone. Here are the particulars: >I'm using an EasyMasher in a very well insulated budwizer keg with a Phil's sparge arm, and a gas-fired burner for increasing and maintaining temperature. The recipe was: 6-lbs DWC Pils Malt 2-lbs flaked barley 1-lb Roasted Barley ............. >1. Mash in 3-gal water to stabilize at 122*F >The sparge took 3 or 4 hours, at one point stopping completely, and was forced to stir the mash after thinnning it out. >This is the only recipe where this happens >Any ideas, or is this typical of flaked barley? You took the words of of my fingers. I have never had a stuck sparge AND I have never used flaked barley. For what it is worth, I have used flaked corn with no problems. This is not double blind science but the finger points that way. Aside from the flaked barley as a potential problem, my standard advice is to let it rest a full 30 mins before starting to drain tun. Even more importantly, if a problem does occur, resist the urge to stir it up, you will only aggrivate it. Try blowing gently on the end of the hose, just a short poof. >From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh) >Subject: Grain mill selection - addendum >Any single pass mill is almost guaranteed to give the same sort of size distribution. In my not so humble opinion, I do not believe this is an accurate statement. The length of the rollers can be a significant factor in determining the grist distribution. If the rollers are sufficiently long, they can be skewed to provide non-linear spacing from one end to the other without damaging the bearings. I won't repeat here why this is useful because it is documented with details and drawings on our web page. However, I will point out that MM rollers are 3" longer than the Valley Mill and two or three TIMES longer then the rest of the ones you mentioned and does NOT use plastic bearings. *********************** Visit our Web page for product flyers and applications information. http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/ js Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 96 13:16:00 -0500 From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com> Subject: Jack's Offer Well folks, It appears to me that we have a reasonable compromise to the ownership of the HBD on the table. I believe that in issue #2029, Jack Schmidling offered to provide the resources necessary to run the HBD, if Al Korzonas would provide the labor.... I'm assuming that Jack would follow through with his offer even if Rob thinks there is another individual more suited for janitorial work <g>. FWIW, I think this idea is great because it gives us a kind of "separation of church & state". If an organization or individual is willing to provide the physical resources, so that the HBD can be maintained by an org. or individual not otherwise affiliated with or employed by said benefactor, the arrangement should serve to preserve the ideals and integrity of the forum. If this type of arrangement can be reached, I believe it should remain the responsibility of the outgoing janitor to name and train the incoming janitor, as well as find the HBD's new home, if the existing benefactor chooses to withdraw support. Hopefully, any incoming benefactors/janitors could be persuaded to make a minimum time commitment to the effort (say 1-3 yrs) to ensure the forum's stability. I personally have survived changes in editors of my favorite magazines, but have also cancelled subscriptions when format changes came through more than once per year. Change is inevitable...I just prefer the chance to get used to something before making another switch. OTOH, I would hate to see the HBD fall apart to due to lack of a semi-permanent home. I have learned alot in the past few months...enough so that I feel comfortable waiting on all the brewers (not just beginners, like me) at my husband's homebrew shop when he needs a day off. So I guess I should also thank the collective for making me look good. All the knowledge I've gleaned from here tends to counteract the "cash register from hell"'s, tendency to make me look dumb & blonde! regards, Goldings Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:50:22 -0500 From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> Subject: Grain mill selection Rich and Mark (Brew Partners in Kraeusen) asked about grain mills and David C. Harsh replied: >Right now, you essentially have four grain mills to choose from: > Corona, PhillMill, Brewers Resource, and Schmidling. There is another, the Valley Mill. I have one and have been quite happy with it. It has a large grain hopper (about 8 pounds), is adjustable, and is easily motorized. I have only put <100 pounds of grain through it but so far, so good. John Wilkinson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 96 14:55:39 EDT From: pbrian at Tudor.Com (Paul Brian) Subject: honey malt Hello Brewers, A couple of recipes that have come over HBD lately have included Honey Malt. This is the first time I've heard of this variety. Can someone explain the characteristics of this malt and what benefits it provides to the fine ales (and lagers) that we brew? Thanks again, Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 15:10:10 -0400 From: Ron Raike <ron at mail.creol.ucf.edu> Subject: Sunshine Challenge Results The results of the 7th annual Sunshine Challenge in Orlando FL are located at The Central Florida Home Brewers Club Page. http://lorien.creol.ucf.edu/~cfhb/ Its in a rough form but available - try viewing the source with your browser. I'm editing it when i get a chance throughout the day. I think "Gerge Fix" is a typo - I'll verify.... There were 363 entries total, many kegs of great beer from all over the country, 2 great parties, a pub crawl, many good cigars, Dave Miller did a seminar and judged, lots of good homebrew, lots of people having a great time, a great long weekend. I'm not an active person on the HBD, please respond personally to: ron at mail.creol.ucf.edu. Ron Raike - CREOL/UCF Facilities - Computers - Head Brewer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 96 15:22:29 CDT From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: cheesey/aluminum/fermenting in Cornys/priming/Kitchen Aid grain mill Andrew writes: >How's this for a theory? Oxidised beta acids are much more soluble than alphas >and supposedly also impart bitterness to beer. When using a hop for finish >hopping which is oxidised (eg. old Goldings), the oxidised betas also provide >a greater than expected bittering level (having greater solubility). The >bitterness provided is this harsh, burnt quality I have described. >Where's cheesey come into it? I believe that it's not the solubility that is changed with oxidation, but rather the bitterness. I've read that un-oxidized beta acids are not very bitter but oxidized ones are. I believe that DeKlerck writes that we should not be expecing less bitterness when we use older hops, but I'm not sure if he specifically said that it's because of the beta acids increasing bitterness balances the decreasing bitterness in the alpha acids. (This does not mean I condone using stale, old hops for brewing most styles!) Note there is a counter to this: the aged hops used for Lambic/Lambiek brewing. There, three-year-old hops are used in relatively large quantities. It is said that the reason for this is to get the antibacterial benefits from the hops while not getting much bitterness out of them. Given the high hop rates used, Lambieks/Lambics are surprisingly low in bitterness. It has been a long, long time since I've made beer with old, oxidized hops (pLambic/pLambiek notwithstanding and these were baked) so I can't tell you if the burnt quality you note has anything to do with oxidation or age, but if switching suppliers has solved the problem, then I believe you have solved the problem! Regarding the cheesey aroma, every hop smells different as it ages, just as every hop smells different fresh. I personally feel that old, oxidized Fuggles smell cheesey, whereas old, oxidized Cascades smell piney. Other oxidized hops smell grassy, minty or sweaty. Since I buy a lot of whole hops and have been intentionally aging them for brewing pLambiek/pLambic, I have quite a bit of familiarity with the smell of old hops. *** Erik is worried about his new aluminum pot dissolving into the wort. Fears about alzheimer's aside, there was an article on aluminum and brewing in Brewing Techniques a few issues ago. The bottom line is that there was no higher level of aluminum in beer made in an aluminum kettle as there was in a parallel batch made in a stainless steel kettle. Two points of caution: 1. don't scrub it till the aluminum shines -- I've heard this will give you an off flavour, and 2. don't use strong acids or bases for cleaning. *** Erik also is worried about his Pilsner made without a starter. Yes, without a starter, a two or even three day lag time is not uncommon. What you've read about starting warm and then cooling versus starting cool are two different ways to make a lager. Starting warm then cooling is faster but has two disadvantages: 1. more esters (which are unwelcome in a lager) and 2. risk of shocking the yeast if you cool too quickly. The textbooks say to cool no faster than 2C per day, but many yeasts can easily handle 5C per day. This is true even for the starter if you are using the "starting cool" method -- you should very slowly cool your starter down to the wort temperature if it is not already at wort temp. You really should use a starter for lagers and a big starter (at least 2L and 4L would not be too big) is recommended. *** There have been a number of people who have mentioned fermenting in kegs lately. I belive that one person said they have removed the gas-in fitting and attached an airlock. The other person connected a gas-in connector to the keg which then goes to a tube which is submerged in a liquid in a jar. I would like to caution that these connector openings (especially if you are going through the whole connector assembly) are very small and are very likely to clog if there is blowoff. While these kegs are rated to 130psi, I think it's a good idea to not try and see if yeast can generate 130psi. I know that a lot of people will write and say that they have fermented in Corny kegs for years with no problems, but I still contend (after two carboy explosions due to clogged blowoff tubes: one 5/16" ID the other 3/8" ID) that it is better to be safe than sorry and any chance of blowing off through a Corny fitting can be *dangerous*. *** Ken writes: >Priming with malt extract/ wort/ gyle is of course appealing, but Dave >Miller, for one, notes that it has disadvantages. As I recall, his main >concern is the fact that in a maltose(etc.)-based bottle fermentation, the >CO2 is trapped and can't scrub out esters which always form in rather high >concentration (the great majority of which get carried off, in an open >fermentation). This doesn't happen with glucose priming. Miller says he >has done back-to-back experiments priming with wort and priming with >glucose, and says that the wort-primed beers turned out (and I quote him >approximately): "in all cases too estery for the intended style". I am very skeptical -- recall that Miller was the one who said that after bottling all the CO2 is quickly produced but requires several weeks to dissolve in the beer. Both scientifically and experimentally we (the HBD collective) have proven that this is false. Firstly, many American megabrewed Lagers are "naturally carbonated" meaning that the fermenters are sealed with a certain amount of fermentables left and (with the help of special pressure valves) are carbonated via the remaining extract. Since glucose is always the first to be fermented there are nothing but larger sugars left at the end of fermentation and we can safely say there is no fruitiness in American Megabrewed Lagers. Secondly, kraeusening has been used by German brewmasters to carbonate beer for centuries and nobody is criticizing their beers for being too estery for style, are they? The German beers that are brewed following Reinheitsgebot are not even allowed by law to use refined sugar to prime! Ken continues: >I've now tried, several times, priming with only partly (e.g. 33%) malt >extract and the rest glucose. In a couple of experiments like Miller's, the >partially wort-primed beers are -- even at this low concentration of malt >used for priming -- quite clearly more estery than the glucose-only ones. I >wonder if anyone else has done this kind of testing. I think I'll stick >with using a small fraction of wort in my priming solution, because I like >the idea of its soaking up oxygen in the bottle.. but only a fairly small >fraction. I suspect it was not esters that you were sensing but something else. Furthermore, there is nothing inherently different between the yeast's oxygen uptake with various primings. They consume the oxygen because they desire it and the type of sugar used for priming doesn't affect that. *** John writes: >Has anyone had any luck with the grain-mill attachment for the Kitchen >Aid Mixer? It will make great bread, but will crush the grain too fine for brewing. I know where my towel is... Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:24:20 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Please unsubscribe Jake from your mailing list. Jake and I brew together regularly. In fact, it was Jake that first turned me on to subscribing to HBD, way back in, oh, 1992 or something. One day, he mentioned to me that he had left HBD because it was mostly filled with junk. Well, the quality had been steadily improving for the last few months. It seemed to reach a plateau, and almost every day I was forwarding tidbits to Jake. So, finally, he decided to resubscribe. Within seconds, the quality here plummetted. First, we have Al and Pat spanking each other about the National Homebrew Day. Then, we have the discussion of the HBD being handed off to AoB, and everyone has to air their opinion about it. Twice. Then, joy of joys, the "Does shitty beer actually suck, or do we?" thread rears it's ugly head. Randy Huyck posts a 22 line sig. Twice in a row. Mike Bell posts a long, rambling flame about how obnoxious flaming is. Thanks, Mike. I'd flame you for it, but I thought speaking calmly about it, in public, would be a more egregious waste of bandwidth. Barry Finkling Curtis really takes the cake, however, by taking a bunch of PRIVATE e-mails, presumably not posted here in the name of saving bandwidth, and perhaps in the name of decency and discretion, and proceeds to post them, for all our benefit, along with his commentary about their commentary, all of which is apparently commentary about commentary, and it's value. And something about cussin', too. Sheeit. Finally, of course, are the clueless masses asking publicly to be unsubscribed. What, am *I* supposed to do it? Seriously - I assume that this is due to the fact that Rob is handing the digest off soon. Still, I think the message is pretty clear - Jake must leave. I'll forward stuff about first-wort hopping and hot-side aeration and iodophor and all the other wonderful things we USUALLY talk about. Anyway, hats off and bottoms up to Rob Gardner for his fantastic work! To anyone considering a legitimate response to this, remember - If you take things too seriously, you wind up sounding even stupider than I do. If there is sufficient interest in private e-mail, I'll post a summary. -Russell Mast Copyright 1996, Tito Jackson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 17:37:21 -0400 From: Dennis Cabell <cabell at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Lagering in corny Gregory, Guy J. <GGRE461 at eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov> wrote > > A tip: > > I'm lagering in a old corny keg. I cut off the bottom 1/2" of the out tube, > and took out the valve from the in-tube. Brew magazine has a cockamamie > contraption for attaching an airlock involving a whole bunch of stuff. I > used, instead, a 2 inch length of 1/2" ID clear tube, into which I inserted > a 3" length of 3/8 " ID, 1/2" OD tube, into which I inserted my airlock. > It's acceptably rigid, and the airlock is bubbling away happily. My > refrigerator does not have a dangerous buildup of CO2 in it nor does it > smell, as the Brew magazine article suggested, and I am not light the 40 > bucks or so for the stuff they advised. Anybody have any better ideas? Try this: Simply attach a length of hose to a corny "in" connector and run the hose into a beer bottle half full of water. Simple easy air lock. A twist that I may try next time I lager is this: Leave the dip tube full length, when it comes time to keg, attach the CO2 and dispenser and blow out the gunk on the bottom before you shake the key to carbonate, Then simply carbonate in the same keg you used for lagering. Note that I have not tried this yet, it is a thought I had. Can anyone see any problems? Dennis Cabell cabell at ix.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 14:50:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Johnson <kenjo at santafe.wv.tek.com> Subject: screens for keg lauter tun Does anyone know what the diameter should be for a screen set into a standard keg for a lauter tun? I have to make the screen before I get a chance to cut the top off of the keg. Hole size and spacing info would also be very helpful. kj PS. I need to know by 3:30 pm PST May 9. Return to table of contents