---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  IPA & Rye - my two favorites! (KrisPerez)
  Re: Rye & sucanat (Russell Mast)
  Testing...testing...is this thing on? (Brian Kimball)
  Grain Mill Adjustability ("Bryan Dawe -GHL")
  First Wort Hopping ("Dave Hinkle")
  Signature lines (trafcom)
  Boiling hops/clarity (Workstudy)" <NAYLORCH at kaboom.south.slcc.edu>
  Incremental upgrade to AGB ("Patrick D. McVey")
  Compressed Gas, Temp. Control, Coffee in Beer (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
  re: "Honey one of your bottles just exploded..." (Dick Dunn)
  re: Iodophor (C.D. Pritchard)
  re: Freezing Yeast (C.D. Pritchard)
  Stuck Sparge/EasyMasher/Iodophor/Stupid Brewing Tricks (blacksab)
  Re:  Does size matter, and a question (Geoffo)
  How to design a Whirlpool tank? (Ted Mattsson)
  First-wort hopping web page is updated ("Dave Draper")
  Yeast storage ("Dave Draper")
  Hops, Skewed Brains, Etc. (Jack Schmidling)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 16:21:30 -0400
From: KrisPerez at aol.com
Subject: IPA & Rye - my two favorites!

>Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:40:41 -0400
>From: pfeine at osf1.gmu.edu (Paul Feine)
>Subject: HOPS

>In any case, I'd like to ask anyone who'd care to to post the recipes of
>the bitterest and/or hoppiest brew they've brewed without crossing the line
>to peppery unpleasantness (please include recipes for those with dubious
>unpleasantness).

One of my goals as a brewer is to come up with a beer so bitter and hoppy
that no one will drink it but me. This was an attempt at that, but I don't
think it was quite bitter enough:

Floyds IPA (10 gal)

18# Hugh Baird
2# 40 Crystal
2# Belgian Biscuit malt
2 oz Columbus, leaf, 15% alpha 60 min
1/2 oz Columbus, leaf, 15%, 20min
1/2 oz Columbus, leaf, 15%, 10min
1 oz Columbus, leaf, 15% dryhopped (1/2 oz in each keg)
American Ale 1056
High temp mash (no steps) for big body.
OG about 1.062

At one of our club meetings, there were about 6 "hop-heads" that liked 
it. Everyone else just thought it was _way_ too bitter.
The Columbus hops were great! I will be making this beer again and again.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>Date: Thu, 09 May 96 11:23:00 PDT
>From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov>
>Subject: Here's rye in yereye

>I'd be interested in public critiques, suggestions, or experiences with Rye
>brewing.  I'd also like to make this beer better.  Any suggestions?  Flames

Ahh! My other favorite beer. This one is not bitter at all and the taste of 
the rye really comes through. I like to keep this one around in the summer
so my friends don't have to give me "bitter beer face" when I serve them 
my IPA.

I take no credit for this recipe, it is from Sep/Oct 93 issue of Brewing
Techniques (out of print), page23:

Pale Rye Ale (5 gal)

8 lbs pale malt 
4 lbs rye malt 
1/2 oz Centennial 6.6% bittering
3/4 oz Northern Brewer, finish
1/2 oz Centennial, finish
irish moss
Sierra Nevada yeast or 1056

I usually use Harrington or whatever is cheap for the 2-row. I also usually
double this to make 10 gallons. Five is nowhere near enough.
YES!! I know that the rye is 30% of the grain bill. ** Do it anyway**.
This is an excellent beer. Even people who don't like beer, like this
beer. My favorite variation of this substituted 2 lbs of Victory for 2 lbs
of the 2-row, and used an altbier yeast. I remember it fondly :)

Paul and Greg, thanks for asking, you have allowed me to post
my two favorite recipes at once   :-)

Kristine Perez
KrisPerez at aol.com

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Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:25:55 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Re: Rye & sucanat

Jake sez :

> The rye flakes produce a great rocky head, and the chill haze settles out 
> after a few days in the fridge.

I want to add that this latest batch (though not previous incarnations) tastes
a lot better warm.  Might be a little undercarbonated, but it really has a 
good bite when warm and tasted a little old when cold, as well as flat.

Guy said :

> > I get a beer with a fascinating astringency, 

Yes.  With flakes, and maybe malted, it's a somewhat "metallic" flavor, 
especially when it's young.  When it's immature, it's a little harsh, as it
ages it becomes a delightful zing.  I think the sucanat adds to that, but I
can taste some of that in a German Roggen, along with all the phenols from
the Weizen yeast.  (Which is also a neat combo, IMO.)

> On a tangent:  Thinking about cane reminds me of another brew I made with
> Russell Mast a few months ago, which we fondly named Ferment X. 

I was always trying to call it "Fermentation X", as a joke on "Generation X",
but now we usually call it "Lungbeer", because the little ID marks we made on 
the caps look like the symbol for the American Lung Association.

> don't be cheap.  Reach for the sucanat.

Tastes great in beer, or just straight from the box!

 -Russell Mast
Copyright 1996, Ralph Carney

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Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:20:28 -0700
From: Brian Kimball <bkimball at electroscan.com>
Subject: Testing...testing...is this thing on?

Hello all,

I'm a long time lurker trying to figure out this netmail / E-work thing. 
If I see this on the HBD Monday, I'll assume I'm doing something right. 
Oh yea, I brew too and plan to participate in the Digest in future.  I'll 
be E'ing ya.

BTK

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Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 16:20:36 -0600
From: "Bryan Dawe -GHL" <bryand at larry.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Grain Mill Adjustability


Todd Mansfield wrote in HBD 2033:
> People who say adjustability isn't important tend to own mills with
> fixed roller clearances.

Interesting assertion.

Well, I own a mill (JSP MaltMill model P) with fixed roller clearances.
I also believe adjustability in a two roller mill is not important.
And there *is* a causal relationship between these two statements.

But the direction of causality is not the direction suggested by Mr.
Mansfield in his quote above.

Several years ago when I bought my first mill (an *adjustable*
MaltMill) I, like Mr.  Mansfield, thought that adjustability was
important.  I Brewed about 30 five gallon all grain batches with it.
At first I meticulously adjusted the mill to optimize my process with
respect to the grain being milled; nominal setting for two row pale
ale and pilsener malts, slightly narrower for wheat malt, etc.  After
about 15 batches, I started just leaving the adjustment at its nominal
setting.

The result?  No difference.  The consistent lautering to which I was
accustomed remained unchanged.  The very high extraction efficiency I
get remained unchanged.

Through that time I brewed Pilsener's, Vienna's, Bocks, Wheat Beers,
and the occasional Dry Stout.

I concluded that adjusting my adjustable mill was not achieving any
measurable or perceptable benefit.

About a year ago I "upgraded" my mill to a new, fixed roller version.
The upgrade was to get the diamond knurled rollers that increase grain
throughput and reduce required cranking torque.  Naturally, I saw no
need to pay extra for the adjustable version.  (I also sold my
previous mill to a friend.)  I have brewed a handful of five gallon
batches and 15 ten gallon batches with my new mill.

The result?  No difference.  The consistent lautering to which I was
accustomed remained unchanged.  The very high extraction efficiency I
get remained unchanged.

The ten gallon batches I've brewed with the new mill are four
Pilsener's, four Vienna's, two Bocks, two Wheat Beers, and three Dry
Stouts.

I wonder if Mr. Mansfield has tried brewing a variety of beers, using
a variety of grains, using just the nominal setting on his mill?

The mill Mr. Mansfield uses (according to his submission to HBD) is
the one roller Phil Mill.  I would not be surprised to learn that the
adjustability is in fact important in that mill.  After all, the
mechanics of the crush are quite a bit different in that case.

I believe adjustability in a two roller mill is not important.

Regards,
Bryan P. Dawe

- -- 
Bryan P. Dawe
Hewlett-Packard Company             Workstation Systems Group
Workstation Systems Division        e-mail: bryand at fc.hp.com
Graphics Hardware Lab               FAX: (970) 229-6858
3404 East Harmony Road  MS-73
Fort Collins, CO  80525-9599

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Date: 10 May 1996 15:57:33 -0700
From: "Dave Hinkle" <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com>
Subject: First Wort Hopping

Dan Fitzgerald wrote:

>For any all grain brewers who have not tried FWH, I would suggest you give it
>chance. I have just tapped into two of the finest kegs of pilsner, I have
>had the pleasure of brewing at home.(IMHO)
>After recirculating your first runnings, simply add whole or plug hops directly
>to the boiling pot as you sparge. In addition to bittering hops, late
>additions, and dry hopping, I feel the FWH made a noticable difference in the
>finished product. It did not affect clarity at all.
>My thanks to everyone who gave us this advice this past winter, it certainly
>made a difference in the beer I'm drinking this spring.

I agree that it's simple, and doesn't have a noticeable impact to clarity.  But
I would like to add that it is easy to over do it.  I made 1.050-ish 'American
Lager' with 1/2 OZ of Columbus used in FWH.  Even after a month in the keg, the
hop flavor was kind of strong for the style of beer.  I didn't mind one bit, but
non-hop-heads found it to be a little overpowering.

I have started doing this as "routine" procedure for my pale ales, because the
intense hop flavor is the counterpoint to the malty, fruity ale I always wanted
but never quite got from late hop additions alone.  But I'll probably skip FWH
on light lagers.

Someone mentioned a little bit about the history of FWH.  I don't remember ever
seeing this mentioned in any English brewing techniques texts or history.  Was
it invented by the Germans, or by whom?

Also, what was the consensus on how to factor FWH in the total IBU calculation?
Since I leave my FWH hops in for the boil, I've been just adding the hops to the
rest of the boiling hops in the calculations.  This has been reasonable accurate
for me.  FWIW, I use Randy Mosher's chart on gravity / boil time for my utiliza-
tion numbers.  It works for me; at least I feel it's better than guessing % 
utilization.

Sorry if some of this is repeat - I missed some HBDs due to circumstances that
were marginally out of my control.  Maybe there should be a FWH FAQ?

- ----------------------------------------------------

On a different note, I am looking for info on pubs and small breweries in 
Ireland.  I'll be there for most of June, up in & around Cavan and down in the
Ring of Kerry area.  But I would certainly travel a couple of hours in any
direction for a good brewery.  BTW, we already plan to see Murphy & Beamish
Breweries in Cork;  I was hoping to find some smaller operations, and maybe 
pick up a used beer engine along the way.  I heard there is a micro in Dublin -
anyone know the name and address?  I've seen pub guides for London, but none
for areas of Eire.  I know most of the towns I'll be near are one-pub towns, 
but it would be nice to know where some good free house pubs are since I sus-
pect many pubs are Guinness-owned. 

Dave Hinkle
Phoenix AZ

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Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 19:31:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: trafcom at inforamp.net
Subject: Signature lines

Does anyone else think that the following sig is a bit long? No personal
flame intended to Ted, but maybe a little self-restraint is in order?

Peter Stanbridge
trafcom at inforamp.net
- --------------------

>Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 08:11:54 -0700
>From: tedben at solusys.com
>Subject: LA-North Brewpubs

I am seeking good beer in the North-LA/Ventura County area and was
wondering if there are any Brewpubs in the North San Fernando Valley area
or Ventura County. Thanks! Please reply to address below. - --
/~~\
/~\     / \
/ \ /   \       /~\
/       \ /~~~~~~~~\ / \
/~~~~~~~/       \ /~~~~~\
/       Ted Benning \/  \
_/      /       \       \
/       /       \       \_
/ Solution Systems Technologies, Inc \
/       6968 Springhill Dr.     \
/       Niwot, Colorado 80503   \
/ Phone 303-652-3810 Fax 303-652-3810 \
/       /       \       \
/       / Email tedben at solusys.com \    \
=================================================
THE VME VERTICAL MARKET SPECIALISTS





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Date:          Thu, 9 May 1996 14:47:25 MST
From: "Chris Naylor (Workstudy)" <NAYLORCH at kaboom.south.slcc.edu>
Subject:       Boiling hops/clarity

I am a Neeeeeewbie with some input!  I got my first kit this last 
Chrismas ('95) and have brewed 18 batches since!  My  wife thinks 
I've gone insane,  But thats another story..  I'm useing extracts and 
specialty grains.  I've been adding pellet hops directly into the 
wort at the start of boil and have had no (read as ZERO) problems 
with clarity.  

I've used SAAZ hop in several ales and have been very pleased.

I have not sparged any thing and my gravitys have all been right on 
the mark, is this a all grain thing that I don't need to wory about?

Well thats all for now....

Chris
naylorch at kaboom.south.slcc.edu

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Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 02:25:46 -0700
From: "Patrick D. McVey" <mcveyp at kingman.com>
Subject: Incremental upgrade to AGB

Barry C. Finley wrote:
>Are there any easy ways to brew all grain with out having to buy all
>of the equipment?
Yes, Barry. The upgrade can be as cheap as your resourcfulness. Your
existing extract equipment already has you to 3rd base. You're in scoring
position. I was a card-carrying extract brewer. Then, I went to all-grain by
adding the El Cheapo Zapap lauter tun. I found a 5-gal bucket (free) that
fit inside my bottling bucket. I drilled the inner bucket with a bazillion
1/8" holes. This cost me about 2 bottles of homebrew.  On the bottom of my
sparge bucket (Zapap, whatever), I drew a grid of horiz/vert lines spaced a
1/4" (like graph paper). At the intersection of the grid lines I drilled an
1/8" hole. There are +/- 600 holes. Drawback #1, is the small, hard-plastic
flashing left at the hole's exit inside the bucket. This is difficult to
clean but, hey, its a sparge bucket, the wort gets boiled afterwards. After
mashing, I carry the enamel pot over to the "tower" where I scoop some
grains to make a bed. I then float the bed with some wort and add the rest
of the mash. My primary fermenter is placed below to catch the sparge from
some extra tubing (about $.18/foot). I adjust the bottling spigot for an
easy flow rate (the speed it takes me to move lower scoops to the top bucket
where I sprinkle the sparge over the grains. Watch for channeling-do this
like George Bush, kinder & gentler. My other secret (come closer). I have
let on to the aisle clerks at my favorite hardware store that I'm making
homebrew. After awhile, they're running up & down thinking of ways to fix up
my rig. This has cost me a few bottles of homebrew. A quick sidebar-Always
take homebrew deliveries to the hardware store in brown paper bags. The
employees must adhere to their personnel policies. Now remember, there has
been no great capital outlay except time and commonly available materials.
You're doing the "all-grain thing." Keep posted to HBD for discussions about
temp stability during sparge, such as converted Gott canteens. And "the
Collective" will also open the mysteries of improved brew-kettle geometry
which will getcha more sugar and more OG's. You can implement the other
techniques as your budget allows. 
Good luck on any method you choose, remember, the world is full of free
brewing equipment. Relax...blah, blah, blah. P.S. The regional, laid back HB
store proprietor (you know who you are) always reminds us that little  old
German ladies have been doing this for centuries. You can too.


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Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 10:26:53 -0500
From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com>
Subject: Compressed Gas, Temp. Control, Coffee in Beer

On the subject of gas pressures...
>
>Our untutored use of pressure and gas systems concerns me sometimes that
>this hobby is not completely harmless. Someone better qualified could post a
>gas and pressure safety FAQ to the appropriate archives. Any gas fitters out
>there?
>
>Charlie(Brisbane, Australia)
>

Hey Charlie!  Good Idea.  When I get to work on Monday, I'll dig up my
'official' ANL/DOE training guide regarding pressure vessel safety, and post
some sort of primer.  Hell, if I feel really adventurous, I might even dig
up some ASME Pressure Vessel Safety code stuff (AAAAUUUGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!)
Might take me a day or two though, so be patient...  :)

As far as temperature controllers are concerned... 
>> 
>> Haven't checked out your web sites, but for fridge temp control, any problem
>> with just wiring in a better thermostat than the one the fridge came with?
>
>Depends.  The thermostat in a fridge is typically a simple bimetal but it
>carries the entire 120V/xx amp load.  An A/C or heater thermostat typically
>operates with 24VAC at perhaps an amp tops.

If you want to use the normal houshold thermostat that runs on 24VDC, you
can get a solid state control relay (SCR) It's basically a solid state switch
that when one side sees a DC voltage (usially 3-32VDC) it closes a contact
inside and allows power (120, 240 VAC) across the other side to power the
fridge, heater, light, whatever.  They are rated for typically 120 and 240
VAC and various currents from a few Amps to 75A for different applications.
Most electronic supply catalogs have them (I use Newark Electronics) and they
run about $15-30.  That and a transformer to power the 24VDC and you are
all set. 

You'll still have to have the thermostat inside, unless you get one that has
a junction for an additional temp. probe.

You can also buy a temp. controller from places like Omega that has all you
need except a thermocouple or RTD for about $150-200.

For brewing with coffee...
>From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
>Subject: Brewing with coffee
>
>     Has anybody out there done any beer-brewing with coffee?  I was 
>     wondering if it's best to just make a pot of high-quality, very strong 
>     coffee and add it to the beer at packaging, or to actually steep the 
>     beans in the boil?  My understanding is that boiling extracts harsh, 
>     bitter compounds from the coffee beans.  Is this true? 

You want to steep it, not boil it, for the last 15-20 minutes of brewing,
since boiling does release some harsher, more bitter aspects of the coffee.
I just did an Espresso Porter that turned out great.  I coarse ground the
espresso beans, put them in a grain sock, and about 20 minutes before the
boil was over, I reduced the fire to a low simmer, added the coffee, then 
let it steep for 15 min.  For the last 5 minutes, I took the coffee out,
kicked up the heat to boil (took about 1 min) and then did the last addition
of hops.

I used 1/2# for 5 gal, and it turned out really good.  I posted the recipe
and results a few issues ago, but I can mail it to you if you want.

Hoppy Trails!

Jamie




All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity...
 ____
 \  /   Nothing is so strong as Gentleness;       JWylde at interaccess.com
  \/       nothing so gentle as real strength           Nasiatka at anl.gov


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Date: 11 May 96 10:12:37 MDT (Sat)
From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: "Honey one of your bottles just exploded..."

Jeff Smith wrote (about a batch with exploding bottle[s]):
> I usually prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar and add to my bottling bucket when I
> first start racking the beer in (thus I avoid stirring the beer)...

(You can mix the corn sugar with water and bring to a boil to dissolve.
Makes the mixing a little better.  But that's not the main issue here.)

> ...For this batch I primed with 1 cup of
> honey in 1 cup of water...  I'm sure
> that this batch is primed unevenly...

That's a problem, to be sure, but it's not all of the problem.

> So is 1 cup honey to much?

Yes.  Here's a quick sketch of figuring it:  your standard 3/4 cup of sugar
is around 4+ oz by wt.  A cup of honey is about 12 oz wt.  80%+ of the
content of honey is sugar, and essentially all of it is readily fermentable.
So a cup of honey has about 10 oz wt of fermentable sugar, or almost 2.5
times your usual prime.

>...(I got the 1 cup from The Home Brewer's Companion.)...

Argh.  Bad advice in print is still bad advice.  It's just harder to track
it down and fix it.
- ---
Dick Dunn      rcd at talisman.com      Boulder County, Colorado  USA
   Turn off the tube.  Hang up the phone.  Get out of the car.  Log off.
   Get out and live for real!

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Date: Sat, 11 May 96 13:18 EDT
From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: re: Iodophor

I LOVE Iodophor!  I never use bleach anymore except in airlocks.  Here's
some of my experience with Iodophor (cross-posted to the HBD also).

>1) What is the correct concentration? I've read anywhere from one half to 2
>oz. per 5 gallons.

I use a 25 ppm concentration- about 6 ml/gal or 1 oz/5 gal for anywhere from
5 minutes to overnight.  Never had an infection I could attribute to bad
Iodophor usage (I did have an infected kegged light ale which I attributed
to dry hopping).  If you're anal about correct concentrations, buy a liter
bottle of Idophor and the manufacturer (Natl. Chemicals, Inc.) will send you
25 tests strips for a SASE.  After you've used it awhile, you can assess the
concentration by the color density of the solution.

>2) While it claims no-rinse, does the piece of equipment *need* to air dry?

No, even for flasks to be used for yeast starting and tubes to be used for
freezing yeast, I typically pour the solution out, shake out excess, cap and
let stand upside down for a couple of minutes, remove the cap (while flask
is still upside down), drain again (and maybe shake) and then pour in the
yeast and wort. If the flask was clean to begin with, there's not much
Idophor left after the procedure.  I do most of my cleaning and santizing in
a bathroom so I want to minimize the amount of time the stuff I sanitize is
exposed to the air.

>In the case of pulling a SS spoon from the solution  to stir cool wort, can I
>just shake off the excess? 

Sure- I do it all the time, often without much shaking.  

>Or in kegging, can I just pour out the solution and syphon my beer right in
>without turning it upside down and waiting for it to dry?

I use a procedure similiar to the one above but I have hoses connected to
both the beer and gas fittings to ensure those get sanitized also.  I drain
(with the lid and fittings still on) by suspending the keg up-side-down (by
hole drilled in the rubber base of the keg), draining for a few minutes then
cracking the lid and shaking out any excess solution.  I then purge the keg
with CO2 .  I'd guess that only a tsp. or so of solution remains after the
procedure.  OTHO, I always force carbonate.  Now that I think about it, with
force carbonation, there's no reason to drain much since Iodophor is doesn't
have much taste or odor.

>3) I've read it will keep in solution for extended periods of time. Those
>references were in closed containers like kegs. What about a 1 gallon glass
>jug, will light affect it's viability?

I keep mine in a spare 5 gal glass carboy. I've 2 carboys- when racking from
primary to secondary (the spare/Idophor in it), I temporarly rack the
Iodophor from the spare to a plastic jug via the racking cane and hose, let
sit awhile, drain, rack the beer, clean primary and racking cane/hose then
rack Idophor into the primary.  Other than topping up with solution
eyeballed to be a high concentration, the solution is about 6 months old.
Light doesn't seem to effect it (atleast not the incadacent lights in my
spare bathroom).  One gallon *glass* jugs should be fine as long as you
remember to cap them- air renders the Idophor solution ineffective.  If you
use a rubber stopper for capping, the vapors from the solution will corrode
the bottom of the stopper.  It won't ruin it- it'll just look like crap.
Don't use a plastic jug for long term storage- in a capped polyethlene jug,
mine lost much of it's color in a week.

C.D. Pritchard    cdp at chattanooga.net


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Date: Sat, 11 May 96 13:18 EDT
From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: re: Freezing Yeast

Geza T Szenes/IPL <Geza_T_Szenes/IPL.IPL at notes.ipl.ca> posted in #2034:

> 10 mls glycerol was added.  Then I added about 80 mls of slurry from a 1
liter >starter....

Probably not enough glycerol- I use about 3/4 glycerol (actually "Freeze
Shield" solution from Alternative Beverage) and 1/4 slurry from the bottom
of a fermenter or starter.  I haven't had a problem sucessfully reviving
Wyeast American Ale, American Lager, and Pilsen Lager.  Record so far is
about 1 year old American Ale- 8 cc total vol of yeast slurry/glycerol
started in about 1 1/2 days in a 200 ml starter.

>...frozen in freezer compartment of fridge.

If it's a frost-free type,  I've read they may be unsuitable for preserving
yeast due to the temperature swing during the defrost cycle.  Mine's not one
of that type so I can't offer personal experience.  If it's a frost-free
type, storing the yeast jars in an insulated container or a
container/antifreeze should help dampen the temperature changes.  An added
factor is how full you keep the freezer.  

C.D. Pritchard    cdp at chattanooga.net


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Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 15:43:49 -0500
From: blacksab at siu.edu
Subject: Stuck Sparge/EasyMasher/Iodophor/Stupid Brewing Tricks

Thanks to all who responded to my question about my stuck sparge during the
lautering of a Guinness-clone. I think Jim Busch hit the nail on the head--I
simply overloaded the surface area of the EM with beta glucans in the flaked
barley. Charlie Scandrett suggested a beta glucanase rest at ~100*F, which
seemed to lessen the viscosity of the mash, but it still stuck. The only
thing that seemed to get any of the three batches unstuck was to thin the
mash with a large infusion of water which served to thin the mash. Next time
I make this recipe, I'm going to try infusing a large quantity of water at
mashout and I think that should do the trick. I'll post results.

I think what I encountered was a limitation to the EasyMasher. Let me say
from the outset that I think the EM is a great way to mash. Every other mash
that I've done (about 30) has gone VERY smoothly, and I would continue to
reccomend the EM as a cheap and simple way to convert a budwizer keg to a
mash tun (Jack's not paying me, I'm just a very satisfied customer). The
problem I have with using a false bottom is the space underneath it. Since I
apply heat to step up my mash, I fear that the heaviest wort would wouls
settle to the bottom and scorch unless some type of recirculating pump were
used to mechanically *stir* the mash beneath the false bottom, something I'm
not prepared to do at the moment. As for Jim's comment about the EM
requiring only a quart or so of recirculating before it runs clear, that is
absolutly true in my experience, and although Jack suggests allowing the
mash to settle for 30-min. before sparging, I have found that a 15-min.
mashout is plenty adequate. BTW, Jack, blowing on the outfeed did
noting--that was the first thing I tried! Thinning the mash was the only
thing that seemed to work.

On a related note, on a HBD search of Irish Moss, I found a posting from
Jack saying that the only time he'd ever experienced a stuck EM was when he
used Irish Moss. I also use an EM in my boiling kettle, and this has never
happened to me (6 batches), but I use whole hops and allow the trub to
settle for 15-min. before pumping the wort thru my CF wort-chiller. I
suspect the combination of a pump AND the filter-bed formed by the hops keep
the EM from clogging for me.

The B-T-F Iodophor I use says to use 1/4-oz in 2 1/2-gal of water for
12.5ppm titratable iodine. That is one cap-full. 1/2-oz for 25ppm. I've
found that 12.5ppm is plenty if the equipment is clean. Be sure to use a lot
of elbow grease!

BTW, I never rinse the stuff and have had no problems. Remember that this is
basically the same stuff as the tablets backpackers use to make questionable
water safe to drink--iodine has a very narrow range in which it works, below
a certain concentration, it no longer functions. To illustrate this point,
I'll relate my STUPID BREWER TRICK:

On a batch of porter, I forgot that I had left a gallon or two of 12.5ppm
iodophor solution in my hot liquor tank. I pumped the sparge water up into
it, and didn't realize what I had done until half way thru the sparge. Did I
worry? A little, but I poured myself another homebrew and just
continued--what else could I do? Absolutely  no problems with fermentation,
and I detected no off flavors that I could attribute to the iodine. Still,
not good practice.

Remember that iodine is very volitile and dissipates very rapidly. That is
why you must keep the lid on if you intend to store it, and why you must use
only cold water to mix it with. Also, if you use a hose like I do, spray the
water into the bucket first, before you add the iodophor, otherwise, a
goodly portion of the iodine will dissipate because of the aeration caused
by the sprayer.


Hope this helps, and thanks again for the help with my stuck sparge,

Harlan  



 ======================================================================

   Harlan Bauer                      ...malt does more than Milton can
 <blacksab at siu.edu>                  To justify God's ways to man.
  Carbondale, IL                                                 
                                                       --A.E. Houseman
 ======================================================================


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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 06:56:58 -0700
From: Geoffo <geoffo at nix.hard.net.au>
Subject: Re:  Does size matter, and a question

John Boshier asked in HBD 2034 
> I have a question for the group....I notice that most extract recipes call
> for both Dry Malt Extract(DME) and Liquid Malt Extract (LME).  I buy LME
> from the bulk drums at my homebrew supply store, meaning I weigh out the
> amount of syrup I need for a recipe rather than buying 3.3 lb cans.  I
> don't usually add DME because I buy the amount of extract I need in liquid
> form.  My question is, am I missing some qualities of DME by only using
> LME? I am wondering if DME is 'better' to use for some reason, of if I
> should at least include  a pound or two in each batch, or if it just
> doesn't matter.
> 

 I would say that the answer to that question would be that it depends purely 
on the beer style that you want to brew. DME would be used mainly for 
Porters, Stouts ,Bocks and dark Ales where as LME would be used for Pale 
Ales, Pilzners, and any other style that demands a paler color and not as 
strong a taste. Of course there is no reason why LME and DME can't be mixed 
and that is the beauty of Amateur Brewing. You try a recipe, you change it 
and one day, although I haven't got there get, you will finally brew that 
perfect beer .
> 
> 

> I've asked this question elsewhere and had a few (actually just
> 2)responses, but I'm interested in what opinions any of you might have on
> this (not that anyone here could be called opinionated :))
> 
> Thanks  in advance.
> 
> JB
> john.boshier at telops.gte.com or
> jbosh at cs.gte.net
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:44:03 -0500
> From: uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
> Subject: Re: Iodophor -- oz to cc conversion
> 
> Simonzip at aol.com wrote:
> > The consensus is to use anywhere from 12.5 to 25ppm, most going for 15ppm.
> > The most common dilution to get to 12.5ppm is 1/2 oz per 5 gallons. Use
> > closer to an ounce for really suspect items. I'm gonna use 9cc for now,
> > 12cc=1oz.
> 
> Actually, I'm pretty certain that a fluid ounce (US) is approximately 30cc,
> not 12.
> 
> - -- Mike Uchima
> - -- uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:53:00 -0400
> From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
> Subject: Columbus/WY3056/Berliner Weisse/FWH & MTH
> 
> Many topics ...
> - --
>  Debolt Bruce <bdebolt at dow.com> writes about:
> >Subject: Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 in IPA; America Discovers Columbus
> 
> I am also enjoying a Columbus only high gravity ale. The hopping rate
> quite a bit higher than Bruce's (FWH + 3 additions + 2oz for dry
> hopping 8gal). This is a great hops, but since I haven't seen a
> detailed descriptions of the aroma let me add my very subjective
> comments.  Columbus hops aroma is both floral and herbal and to my
> nose is reminiscent of thyme, juniper berries and pine.  The flavor
> and aroma are complex and balanced. The bitterness added (at an
> estimated 45 IBU a la Tinseth) is unusually smooth, tho' clearly
> bitter.
> 
> >... I'd have to say the hoopla over Columbus is well justified. ...
> Me too.
> 
> - -----------------------
> 
> The Patrick Weix's 'Yeast FAQ' says ...
> 
> >Wyeast 3056 Bavarian Weissen Yeast
> >  A 50/50 blend of S. cerevisiae and delbrueckii to produce a south German
> >  style wheat beer with cloying sweetness when the beer is fresh. Medium
> >  flocculation, apparent attenuation 73-77%. Optimum fermentation
> >  temperature: 56 deg. F (13 deg. C). Problematic to get the right flavor,
> > often
> >  just produces relatively unattenuated beer, without the clove-like
> >  aroma/flavor. Perhaps it's the freshness of the Wyeast #3056 that makes the
> >  difference in whether you get the clove-like aroma/flavor or not. Wyeast
> >  appears to be selecting a better, "truer" weissen yeast to replace this
> >  quirky halfbreed.
> 
> OK - well I don't understand this at all.  With the delbrueckii
> component it's pretty clear that this is intended for Berliner weisse.
> So why the complaint about a lack of phenolic character ?  Am I
> missing something ? Can anyone confirm the delbruckii strain.
> 
> - -------------------------
> 
> and Brian Thompson wrote a week+ ago ...
> >Subject: Berliner Weisse Recipe Wanted
>  ...
> > ... but I have
> >yet to run across one that calls for Lactobacillus Delbrueckii, the
> >bacteria found in milk (?) that imparts the sour flavors.
> 
> Check out Classic Beer Style Series 'German Wheat Beer' by Eric
> Warner.  His 5 gallon recipe calls for ...
> ] 2.125 lb pale barley malt
> ] 2.125 lb pale wheat malt
> ] 0.32g alpha, using Perle hops (1 HBU)
> ] 2.75 qt Speise if fresh wort is being used, otherwise save ...
> ] 2.33 qt of wort for priming.
> ] OG = 1.032, apparent attenuation 90%
> ] 4.75 oz German top-fermenting yeast
> ] (NOT WEIZEN YEAST, but kolsch or alt yeast)
> ] 1 oz L.Delbruckii
> ] --
> ] mash 10' at 40C; 35' at 50C, 10' at 62C, 20' at 64C, 20' at 72C (or till iodine test)
> ] mashout 5' at 76C
> ] sparge  at  78C
> ] boil 105' minutes, half of hops at start, half after 90'.
> ] cool to 15C, pitch yeast & lacto.
> ] rack prime and bottle after primary fermentation.
> ] condition for 3 to 18 months !!!
> ] serve  at  7C
> 
> Note that this recipe assumes ~100% homebrew efficiency !!
> It seems that Wyeast 3056 *may* be a fit.
> 
> As I posted a while back, the Yeast Kit Company in Ann Arbor, MI can
> supply Lactobacillus Debruckii in pure culture form.
> 
> - --------------------
> 
> Also in Eric Warner's book there is a reference to adding hops to the
> mash tun, mash tun hopping.   Has anyone tried this ?  It sounds
> ineffective, but so does FWH.  I guess the obvious next questions are
> how do you hop during the malting process, and can bines be planted in
> barley fields  - ;^)
> 
> - --
> Big thanks ++ due to Rob for operating HBD.
> Have a nice trip Rob,
> Steve Alexander
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
>

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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 00:43:01 -0500
From: Ted Mattsson <ted.mattsson at mbox200.swipnet.se>
Subject: How to design a Whirlpool tank?

I am planning to build my self a small Whirlpool
tank My problem however is that I cant find
any information how to design the tank.
I know that there is a lot of rules regarding
dimensions, angles, flow rate, etc.. where can
I find it?

I hope some one out there have a tip.

Ted Mattsson
Stockholm, Sweden


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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 10:24:37 +10
From: "Dave Draper" <david.draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: First-wort hopping web page is updated

Dear Friends, just a short note to advise that my web page on First 
Wort Hopping has finally been updated and now contains results from 
seven brews done by net.brewers using the technique.  I am hopeful 
that those of you out there who have done this will send me your 
results so I can incorporate them too.  In time, it is to be hoped 
that if people want some idea whether they can expect anything 
noticeable from doing FWH, they can compare their planned beer with 
those listed on the page.

My home page URL is in the sig below; if you prefer you can go 
directly to the beer page at

http://audio.apana.org.au/ddraper/beer.html

and follow your nose to the FWH section.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au WWW: http://audio.apana.org.au/ddraper/home.html
                ...I'm not from here, I just live here...

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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:57:57 +10
From: "Dave Draper" <david.draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Yeast storage

Dear Friends, in #2034, Geza T Szenes asked about storage viability 
when freezing yeast cultures.  I have no experience doing this, but 
would just like to point out that storing slants in the refrigerator 
has been no trouble for me (and many others, I am quite sure) in 
keeping viable yeast.  Reculturing onto fresh slants every several 
months (I do it every 3 months, but have read that one could get away 
with 6) adds only an hour or two of brewing chores and I have never 
"lost" a strain from having all the slants get moldy, or no longer be 
viable, or whatever.  The only time I lost a strain is when I 
carelessly threw out all of the slants I had of 1056 when switching 
from gelatin to agar-agar slants (thought I'd saved one, but blew 
it).  So I guess my point is that freezing yeast seems to me to be 
unnecessary for the homebrewer.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"...yeast, like us, are basically lazy..." --- Charlie Scandrett
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au WWW: http://audio.apana.org.au/ddraper/home.html
                ...I'm not from here, I just live here...

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Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 09:47:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at maxx.mc.net>
Subject: Hops, Skewed Brains, Etc.


>From: Dan Aleksandrowicz <bbh at execpc.com>
>Question for Jack Schmidling:

In HBD 2026; you said that you add Saaz hops to the kettle when 
you start to sparge. That sounds like it works great, but I'd heard 
that you can have clarity problems if you add hops right at the start 
of the boil. Have you had any problems, or has it been a 'non-issue'?

Very interesting question.  That particular batch is still not clear and I
transferred what is left to a 5 gallon keg and am going to sit on it.  I just
finished another batch and it did not clear in 10 days as usual and I 
added gelatin when I kegged it.

I attributed the problem to the use of 50% Munich and 2 lbs of
Caramunich but I may have missed the boat.  I don't see the
connections between early hop addition and clarity but the proof
of the pudding.....

>From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)


Jack also said:
>If the rollers are sufficiently long, they can be skewed to provide
stdin>non-linear spacing from one end to the other without damaging
>the bearings....MM rollers are 3" longer than the
>Valley Mill and two or three TIMES longer then the rest of the ones
>you mentioned and does NOT use plastic bearings

<Thus, the longer rollers of the MM would be more likely to be skewed.
Reason enough to buy a different mill.

The ability to skew the rollers is a FEATURE not a flaw.   Differential
spacing from one end of the rollers to the other is the only way one
can simulate a multistage mill with a single set of rollers in a single
pass.

You didn't bother reading the ref I offered, did you?

It's called "Crush Quality" and is found in the Applications Notes
section of our web page.

 > And anyway, who uses plastic bearings?

Valley uses plastic bearings and so did the now-defunct Glatt.

>  My PhillMill has brass bearings.

My PhilMill has a steel roller screeching in a steel hole.  No 
bearings at all.  So if Listerman has responded to my ranting 
about the importance of proper bearings, then it has served some 
useful purpose, hasn't it? 

>  Of course, none of this will bother Jack because he makes his living
cashing dividend checks, not selling MaltMills  :)

All the more reason to trust my totally unbiased opinions.

>REMEMBER MY MAIN POINT:
"...all will give equivalent quality crushes - just decide which one you
like the best.  Our local club members have all varieties and I've only
heard complaints about the Corona."

You should stick to your main point but you need to offer some 
evidence to support it not just stream of consciousness babble.

>From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu>

>Just in case Jack is sleeping: ...

Thanks for the wakeup.  See my warning at the end of this...

>The MM is designed to have skewed rollers.
While this seems at first to be a strange way to design a mill, 
quantitative tests and very many satisfied customers have shown 
it to be effective.  The Glatt mill used plastic bearings which a 
number of people have reported ruining when grinding hard grains
like wheat.

Just for the record, it was the plastic gears on the Glatt that were 
it's downfall. They didn't last long enough to really test the plastic 
bearings.

>From: Marty Tippin <martyt at sky.net>
>Subject: Grain Mills 

>Correct on all 3 counts.  But.... two pages of rationalization.....  

You just won't give up will you?  Well you seem to be
demonstrating a classic running away from your self syndrome 
and I do not wish to continue with this free therapy other than 
to point out that you dismiss all the superior features of the MM 
as "who needs them" and latch on to a larger hopper on your 
favorite and the most important feature in the world.  
We got your message.... have fun.


To be continued...................


WARNING to all!  I now have local access to the internet and
at 5 cents for unlimited time,  I will probably again become a
plague on the Mommies.  I actually download the Digest now
instead of scanning for relevant articles.  Even Wall Street Barons 
need to watch our pennies.

                           ***********************
Visit our Web page for product flyers and applications information.
                    http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/


js












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