HOMEBREW Digest #2039 Fri 17 May 1996
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Delbruckii/Delbrueckii/berliner weisse (Steve Alexander)
Aussie Pub's Birthday (RMoline930)
Pale Malt Crushing (Chris Gray)
Soci dea Bira - Italy (Paolo DE MARTIN)
re: Honey malt, Amanranth (DEBOLT BRUCE)
Broyles' Thermostat/Hunter ("Barry Wertheimer")
Carbonates and stout (Steve Zabarnick)
Concrete Malt Mill (not another data point) (Chuck Volle)
1996 NHC FORMAT (Michael Coen)
Adjustable vs. non-adjustable? (John Keane)
Skewed apology and other musings (Jack Schmidling)
Keg cleaning ("Ray Robert")
FWH Aroma/Flavor of British Ales (Steve Adams)
Mills and Digest contents ("Craig Rode")
Music (and beer) from the wood (Daniel S. McConnell)
hop bags, contamination, and maturity (Paul Feine)
rye in wit beer ("Ronald S. Thomson")
Re: How do I use TSP for sanitizing? ("Douglas R. Jones")
Stuck Sparge/ Secondary Infection/ Mill Gap/ 3 Tier/ Market it Easy? (RMoline930)
Fuller's ESB clone (Domenick Venezia)
Re: Homemade Mills (Bill Rust)
immersion chiller dimensions (Gregory King)
Extract Water Saga Continues (KennyEddy)
Sanitizing kegs (Matt Apple)
Gambrinus Malts (Fred Waltman)
grain flour,hsa (Paul Brian)
Ads (Algis R Korzonas)
Affect of Hunter Airstat on freezer question (Scott Kaczorowski)
Home Brewery plans please! ("Brian P. Colgan")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:25:46 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Delbruckii/Delbrueckii/berliner weisse
I wrote ...
>With the delbrueckii
>component it's pretty clear that this is intended for Berliner weisse.
Al K. wrote ...
>You are confusing S. delbrueckii with L. delbrueckii. The former is
>a yeast and the latter a lactic bacteria. They were both isolated by
>Mr. Delbrueck (Hans?), which is why they bear his name.
>
>Wyeast #3056 is NOT a good yeast for a Berliner Weissbier. You need to
>use a clean ale yeast like Wyeast #1007 or #1056 along with a lactic
>acid bacteria such as Lactobacillus delbrueckii.
A.J. deLange writes ...
>"Geoffo" posted a rather confusing item in which it appears that there is
>some confusion between Saccharomyces delbrueckii and Lactobacillus
>delbrueckii. The former is a strain of yeast which is supposed to lend the
>phenolic character to Bavarian wheat beer. I have never seen it so called
>anywhere but in Wyeast literature. Most authors refer to it as simply
>another strain of S cerevesiae. Taxonomists change names all the time. That
>is their job. The other strain, Lactobacillus delbrueckii, isn't a yeast at
>all but a bacterium which is found on the husks of barley and, as it
>produces lactic acid as its fermentation process, is used to sour mash
>(where Reinheitgebot bars the use of additives for that purpose) and, of
>course, to sour Berliner Weisse (and Wit).
Obviously, after reading the original Wyeast description #3056 isn't
for Berliner Weisse.
I have seen the name S.Delbrueckii on a couple of occassions and
suspected that it was a typo, since I have never found a definitive
reference to a saccharomyces species by that name. My search of the
online ATCC catalog shows no S.Delbrueckii (or Delbruckii) strain.
Only the enigmatic ...
Saccharomyces cerevisiae
ATCC 96505
J.M. Birmingham HB-23. William's liquid brewers' yeast
for Delbruckii wheat, San Leandro, CA.
There were in excess of a dozen Lactobacillus delbrueckii strains, and
in a private email Spencer Thomas notes ...
>At least one yeast that was previously
>considered S. delbrueckii is now in Torulaspora, according to the ATCC
>on-line catalog.
And in fact there are several Torulaspora Delbrueckii entries, tho'
I'd really like to be convinced that this was a reclassification and
not an entirely different species that Hans put his name on.
Confusing Torulaspora for an S.Cerevisiae sound odd to me.
In any case there's apparently no S.Delbrueckii anymore if there ever
really was such a classification. Extinction at the stroke of a pen.
Does anyone know of a reference to this species that didn't come from
Wyeast literature ? I understand that S.uvarum or carlbergensis are
also misnomers in light of modern classification, but that's another
story.
So back to Berliner Weisse ....
AJdeL points out that L.delbrueckii are a neat way to acidify mash
under Reinheitgebot, and this makes perfectly good sense at acid rest
temperatures. L.delbrueckii is desireable because of the relatively
clean flavor profile produced, and in a (lactic) acid rest this
thermophilic bacterias population growth is selectively enhanced by
the rest temperature itself, since optimal L.delb. growth occurs
around 37C.
Al Korzonas above, and several other references suggest pitching
L.delbrueckii and ale yeast in Berliner weisse presumably at
temperatures under 20C, and likely around 15C. Since suggested growth
temperatures for the L.Delb. is 37C this seems strange. Either that
bacillus has a wide growth temperature range, or Berliner weisse uses
a different Lacto species. Anyone know for sure ?
Steve Alexander
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:57:58 -0400
From: RMoline930 at aol.com
Subject: Aussie Pub's Birthday
In honour of the 200th birthday of Aussie pubs, I offer the following:
"Brewing Matilda"
Once a jolly newbie camped by the brewery,
Under the shade of Foster's PLC,
And he sang as he watched and waited til the kettle boiled,
"Who'll teach the brewing, Matilda to me?"
Brewing, Matilda,
Brewing, Matilda,
Who'll teach the brewing, Matilda, to me."
And he sang as he watched and waited til the kettle boiled,
"Who'll teach the brewing, Matilda, to me?"
Down came a cellarman, drunk as a wallaby,
Up jumped the newbie and grabbed him with glee.
And he sang as he shoved that cellarman to his shaky knees,
"Who'll teach the brewing, Matilda, to me?
Brewing, Matilda,
Brewing, Matilda,
Who'll teach the brewing, Matilda, to me?"
And he sang as he shoved that cellarman to his shaky knees,
"Who'll teach the brewing, Matilda, to me?"
Up rode Dave Draper, mounted on the HBD,
"I'm not from here, I just live here, Newbie, " said he,
"Just turn the modem up lad, and tune in to the AOB,
You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me."
"Brewing Matilda,
Brewing Matilda,
You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me,"
Come grab this can of Cooper's, and wait until bandwidth is free,
You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me."
Up jumped Jack Schmidling and quickly flamed the young Newbie,
"Arf, arf, arf, arf, arf, arf, arf, arf, arf, arf," said he,
You'll never brew a good beer 'til you buy your stuff from me."
"You'll come a brewing, Matilda ,with me.
Brewing Matilda,
Brewing, Matilda,
You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me."
And he flung his mighty trademarks and copyrights, one, two, three,
"You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me."
Out sprang Papazian, armed with his library,
"Relax, don't worry, have a brew, said he,
And keep that flameproof suit on, 'til you brew professionally.
You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me.
Brewing Matilda,
Brewing, Matilda,
You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me."
And he sang as he watched and he waited 'til bandwidth was free,
"You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me."
Up jumped the newbie, confused and feeling most lonely,
"I just want to make a brew or two to drink contentedly,
But some of you are angry, spiteful and so ornery,
I'll never brew again with the likes of thee!"
"Brewing, Matilda,
Brewing, Matilda,
You'll come a brewing, Matilda, with me."
And his ghost may be heard as you pass by that brewery,
"Forget it boys, it's off to the pub for me."
With apologies to (in order of appearance) Banjo Patterson, Dave Draper, Jack
Schmidling (it's just too easy, I couldn't help myself ) Charlie Pap, and the
HBD, AOB collective. All responsibilty for waste of bandwidth, lousy syntax
and poor taste is Mine, Mine, ALL Mine!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:05:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Gray <chrisg at rahul.net>
Subject: Pale Malt Crushing
I have been reading the Big Book of Beer and am about to embark on making
a batch of beer with no malt extract, all grain. One thing that isn't
clear to me is just how much to "crush" the pale malt--five pounds of
it. Should it be like coarsely ground coffee? Or more like fine sand?
Any advice is welcome.
Also, if I mash with 2-3 gallons of water, will there be excess water at
the end? Maybe I'll realize how this works when I do it, but it makes me
wonder?
Thanks.
Chris
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:40:36 +0200
From: Paolo DE MARTIN <sintesi at nsoft.it>
Subject: Soci dea Bira - Italy
Any brewers in North Italy reading this?
I am a member of the "Soci dea Bira Club".
Our club gathering different homebrewers of the Veneto and of the Trentino.
Saturday 01 June '96 there is a private party, where we taste the last
manufactured beer (approximately 180 liters).
Please send me an e-mail if interested.
Paolo DE MARTIN
sintesi at nsoft.it
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 96 08:23:57 -0400
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt at dow.com>
Subject: re: Honey malt, Amanranth
Thanks to Al Korzonas and Mark Garetz for correcting my note on Gambrinus
Honey Malt. I should not have relied on memory.
To provide more information I'll quote from the grain article by Neil
Gudmestad and Raymond Taylor in the Zymurgy Special 1995 Issue:
"Brumalt is a German green malt good for intensifying color, flavor and
aroma (see Narziss, Zymurgy Winter 1993, Vol. 16, No. 5)."
... authors mention discontinued sales due to lack of demand... the
article continues:
"Gambrinus Malting Co. of Canada, recently began exporting to the United
States their version of Brumalt called "honey malt" because of its intense,
sweet honeylike aroma and flavor. Based on our limited experience we
believe honey malt probably could find a home in many different styles of
beer, light or dark. It would be particularly useful where more malt aroma
and/or a subtle malty sweet flavor is desired."
The same article has an interesting note on amaranth:
"Amaranth has the highest protein content per unit of weight of any basic
grain in the world and this contributes to the formation of a rich and
creamy head."
I bought a pound of amaranth for some future beer, probably will use = lb
and see what happens.
Has anyone tried this grain?
Bruce DeBolt
Houston, TX
bdebolt at dow.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:43:45 EST
From: "Barry Wertheimer" <wertheim at libra.law.utk.edu>
Subject: Broyles' Thermostat/Hunter
Ken Schwartz wrote praising the Broyles' thermostat and asking for
elaboration about my comment on the Hunter thermostat.
Despite my lack of inclination to build a thermostat, I did try to
look at Robin's plans, but I get an error message telling me the
file is not available when I try to pull it up. I think I have triple
checked the address, but still no luck.
With respect to the Hunter, I was referring to information posted
here about its tendency to fail, which has been attributed to a
failed or shorted zener. As one of the mechanically impaired (or at
least electonically impaired), I do not even know what a zener is. I
have no personal information about the Hunter beyond what I have read
in this digest. I do know that a failed thermostat would result in
unintentional ice beer, which I would like to avoid.
Now, back to the discussion of mills.
Barry
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:36:07 -0400
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Carbonates and stout
In HBD #2038 Al Korzonas writes:
>... If you are making a stout, you would most certainly
>would like to have some amount of carbonates in the water to balance the
>acidity of the dark grains. Otherwise you have a noticeably sour beer.
I have evidence to contradict this. I've been using RO water with and
without salt additions for the last two years. My last stout, a Guinness
clone, was brewed with straight RO water, no salt additions. This 1.040
all-grain beer used the following grains: 6 lbs pale ale, 1 lb roasted
barley, and 1 lb flaked barley. The pH of the mash settled at 5.3 without
adjustment. The resulting beer was tasty and smooth with absolutely no hint
of sourness.
I've had the same experience brewing other styles (both dark and light)
with RO water. The mash settles near pH=5.3 independent of the amount of
roasted grains in the grain bill. My theory is that the malt constituents
alone are capable of buffering the mash to an ideal pH for any "reasonable"
grain bill, when using RO (or distilled) water. I say reasonable, because
this is probably not true if one uses something like 50% roasted malt.
The only negative I've observed with RO water (without salt additions) is
that even at high hopping levels (50 IBU's) it is difficult to get a strong
bitterness. So, for IPA's and pale ales I recommend adding small amounts of
gypsum (1-2 tsp per 5 gallons).
Steve Zabarnick
Dayton, OH
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:58:23 -0400
From: cvolle at alpha.che.uc.edu (Chuck Volle)
Subject: Concrete Malt Mill (not another data point)
I was inspired by a fellow poster, a while back, to construct my own
concrete malt mill. Being a tinker at heart, (and cheap by nature) I gave
it a try.
Using a 4" I.D. cardboard packing tube as a mold, I cast the mill
wheel using Quickcrete patching conrete. I had scrounged a 1" shaft already
equipped with sealed bearings from an old, scrapped, large computer disk
drive. This shaft was about 6" in length. It would prove perfect for the
mill, giving me a 4"dia by 4" wide mill stone.
I drilled four holes into the shaft. I tapped these holes and
inserted some screws to give the concrete something to hold on to. At the
ends of the cardboard mold tube, I used some acrylic circles to contain the
concrete. I had cored a hole in the exact center of the acrylic to hold the
shaft, centered and leak free.
The results of the casting were fair to good. The newly made mill
stone was centered and fine and hard. The one thing I would do differently
if I did this again would be to use a PVC pipe as the mold, instead of
cardboard. The interior my mold had a small spiral inpression due to the
construction of the "paper" tube. This left a hard spiral ridge that needed
to be ground down after casting. Not a major fault, but a flaw to be
corrected. The beta model will be better.
I constructed a long wooden rectangular housing to hold the mill
stone. Sort of a square wooden tube. I used a steel plate screwed to a
piece of oak as the inclined grinding surface.
Some masonite epoxied into the rectangle provided the surface to
guide the grain to grinding wheel.
I've been lucky on finding many parts of my mill. My wife inherited
her mother's hand operated meat grinder. So, I've "borrowed" the handle for
my mill. It is held on by a thumbscrew inserted into the shaft of my mill.
I had to drill and tap this 1/4"-20 hole for the screw into the shaft and
now all is OK. I'll be able to return it whenever my wife needs to hand
macerate the beast we have for dinner, (like never)! Ground Chuck?
I did need to tinker a bit with the grain bin side of my mill. I
was getting too large of a percentage of grain sneaking around the ends of
the mill stone.
The mill mounts to my workbench above my cooler/tun. It holds about
2# grain.
Now I'm very satisfied. I built it myself. I get whole husks, few
uncracked kernels (still some sneaky guys, tho') and a great crush. I don't
care if its a log distribution of particles sizes or as good as a six roller
three tiered gravity fed flotsam and jetson slightly skewed to the left
grinding contraption. I'm proud and happy.
You can do it if you want to. Give it a try. You don't have to
confess to the digest if it doesn't meet these high standards. No one need
ever know! But if you do, let me know! :-)
Perhaps there's a market in this ever expanding hobby for a
homebrewer to take an idea like a mill and sell it. What do you think?
Latergator
Chuck Volle cvolle at alpha.che.uc.edu
Owner/Brewer/Imagineer/Artitect
Creative Juices Brewery
Cincinnati, OH
Proud Member of The Bloatarian Brewing League, Cincinnati, Ohio
Go Bozmo!
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:35:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Michael Coen <COEN.MICHAEL at igate.pprd.abbott.com>
Subject: 1996 NHC FORMAT
I just got done looking at the results to the firstround of the 1996
national homebrew competition. Congratulations to all advancers. I was
pleased to see that two (out of 14 entries) of my entries have advanced.
Since this is my first ever competition and I've only been at this for
two years I am happy but I must also voice my concern regarding the
format of the competition. Why even have subcatagories if only the top
3 of each catagory advance to the finals? I realize that by giving out
first-third for each subcatagory would increase the number of advancers
to the second round but how can, for example, an ordinary bitter compete
against an ESB?? Granted both could be excellent brews but it is like
comparing apples to oranges. Different gravities, bitterness, fullness,
etc..... Would it be possible to have yet a third round of judging? or
would that be too much?? I would like to see my oatmeal stout go against
other oatmeal stouts not dry stouts. So if I entered every stout
catagory then all my stouts are competing against each other. It is my
opinion that the only time different subcatagories should be judged
against each other is in the best of show judging. Maybe I just don;t
understand how all this competition stuff works but I think there needs
to be some reform. One last point to all homebrewers..... if it tastes
good to you and your friends....then it is a gold medal...relax and
enjoy. One of my brews that advanced I thought was my weakest entry
which goes to show that ya just never know..... I still think my brews
are better than that "new" Lake County brewpub.....Well, that's enough
of my griping...I'll be back next year.........P.S. Congratulations AL
K.....I see you have many a fine brews advancing....good luck!!!!!
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:25:22 -0400
From: John Keane <keane at cs.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Adjustable vs. non-adjustable?
Just another data point:
I've been using a non-adjustable Maltmill(TM) since last Christmas,
and I'm *very* happy with it. As I mentioned a few digests back, I
did experience a small increase in average yield (~10%) by running all
grain through the mill twice. I usually get 28-30 ppg/lb. depending
on the grist. Perhaps I could do better by optimally adjusting the
gap, but one less thing to fiddle with.
I decided to buy a Mm after seeing how the one in my local homebrew
store survived the abuse to which it was subjected. No affiliation
with JSP, and all that.
_John_
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:06:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at maxx.mc.net>
Subject: Skewed apology and other musings
>From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
>Let's compare your mill to what Malting and Brewing Science think is
an adequate mill.
On the other side of this issue... let's keep in mind that M&BS is
intended for and aimed at large commercial brewers. I can not say
often enough or with enough emphasis that what works for large
scale brewers does not necessarily apply to homebrew sized batches.
The difference between that "text book crush" and what one gets from
a properly designed small two roller mill may be of academic interst
but probably has no effect on the bottom line in small batches.
>From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>Im certain I should avoid getting into a stimulating pissing match
with the king of momisms...
As long as you are willing to take responsibility for starting it,
carry on................ It's MOMILIES (R) BTW...
>Jack Schmidling <arf at maxx.mc.net> wrote:
<Is this just a "duh" or are you seriously trying to compare a 6" long,
<3/8" diameter tubular screen with a who knows how large, 1 BBL
<false bottom? i.e. $23 vs how much $300 maybe?
>$50 pref sheet. Rather cost effective for my system.
Right and you can buy the parts for an EM at the hardware store for
$5 but you are comparing a commercial product with a do it youself
project.
Just for reference, George Fix says that his company sells a ready to
go ss false bottom for about $300.
<What do you mean by an adjunct?
Arf! Im suprised at you. FYI:
Nice bit of creative editing. You left out your statement that adjuncts
should not be used with an EM. I don't know what kind of adjuncts
those might be because most folks use "adjuncts" all the time.
>No, Ive never suggested this approach. I recommend cutting the
bed or floating the mash. Now that I realize the manufacturer of
the EM suggests to wait 30 minutes prior to vorlauf, I will feel
secure in my 10-15 minute vorlaufs with zero rest time prior to
runoff
Your description of this discussion is beginning to sound apt.
Surely, your use of the term "vorlauf" leaves many of the excited
spectators in the dark and turns it into something that should be
persued in email. So to satisfy the rules of the net monitors, I will
have to insist that you define the word. This will also save me the
trouble of looking it up.
However, to keep it going, I will take a stab and presume it means
what us newbies (first batch 1963) call sparging or lautering time.
So, you are saying that after mashout and the last stir, you immediately
open the spigot and it takes 10-15 minutes to sparge, I forgot how
many gallons.
I say:
1. So what?
2. What does that first gallon look like?
3. What about all the ghurus that claim long lauters are good lauters?
4. What harm is doing it my way?
5. Who said you couldn't do it with an EM? (note couldn't not
shouldn't)
6. Who ever said an EM was in EVERY way equivalent to a
false bottom?
I could go on but those net monitors.... you know...
>From: Todd Mansfield <102444.1032 at CompuServe.COM>
>Even so, I sometimes choose a clearance outside the 'nominal' range.
Sometimes for learning (i.e. how do runoff and extraction depend on
crush?) and other times because of grain. A good example is Cara-
Pils Malt (U.S. 6-row). The kernels are small and tough. I prefer a
smaller roller clearance for it.
I have long contended that the adjustable mill is there for those who
like to fiddle (myself included) but totally unncessary for making good
beer.
>Using the term "skewed brains" amounts to an ad hominem attack.
It has no place in rational discouse.
It did not appear to be headed in the direction of a rational discourse so
I responded in kind. Furthermore, it was not an attack on your person,
(ad hominem) it was an attack on your brains which are fair game :)
Sorry if I offended your person.
js
***********************
Visit our Web page for product flyers, applications info and other
totally unbiased opinions from the World's Greatest Brewer.
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/
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Date: 16 May 1996 11:02:36 U
From: "Ray Robert" <Ray_Robert at bah.com>
Subject: Keg cleaning
Good day brew collective!
Had a quick question regarding keg cleaning for a new (used) converted SS keg
boiler. It seems to have a layer of accumulated old beer on the inside which
is rather difficult to get off. I plan on soaking the keg in b-brite
overnight to see if this will loosen the gunk. My question is: Is there any
problem using a non-metallic (for example, scotchbrite) as an abrasive to
remove those tough spots. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Robert
Ray_Robert at bah.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 96 11:03:56 edt
From: paa3765 at dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams)
Subject: FWH Aroma/Flavor of British Ales
To: homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
Subject: First Wort Hopping
Fred Brende and Neil Christensen:
I just tasted my first batch using FWH. I detected no aroma. My brewing
partner
made several batches using the FWH technique. He dry hopped half of one
battened relied on the FWH for aroma in the other half; we still have to do
a side-by-side, but the preliminary results are -- little or no aroma with FWH.
Well,
I've taken to dry hopping any latter batches, and I guess I'll be throwing in
real late additions if I'm not in a dry-hopping state of mind.
We have been using as much as three ounces in various combinations for a ten
gallon batch. The hop flavor seems to me to be much better than what is
obtained by late additions at 20 to 10 minutes. But then again we are using
quite a lot of hops for FWH, I guess. Generally speaking we're using healthy
doses of
bittering hops, too. So I've been using 1/3 to 1/2 of the bittering IBUs as a
rule of
thumb for the FWH. I'm assuming that that's what was meant by these figures in
an early post
unless I missed clarification of this point. Another preliminary observation
on FWH: There can be a harshness to the hop flavor early on in the bottle;
this dissipates pretty quickly after a few weeks and blends very nicely with
the overall effect. Oh, yeah, BTW, has anyone tried EKG in FWHping or are we
taking "noble"
literally? It seems to be working all right for us.
On another topic, I've detected a distinctive flavor in several British ales
I've tasted recently, namely Fullers Olde Winter Ale and Shepherd Neame's
Bishop's Finger Kentish Ale. Both of these beers are amber, full bodied, and
have a huge, craggy head. I don't detect much hop aroma or flavor. Watney's
Red Barrel has the same flavor but is much watered down. I can't say that the
flavor is any malt, hops, or yeast, or any combination of them that I know. To
me the flavor overrides all other aspects of these ales, and it seems as though
it is derived from fermentables, but I have no idea what they could be. I
would say sugars in the kettle, but that doesn't quite make sense either,
considering the strength of the flavor -- at least to my palate. Perhaps it is
just lowly hopped, sweet ale. In any case, I'd like to add this effect to my
brewing repertoire. Oh, yeah, the Shepherd Neame's and Olde Winter Ale are
well worth trying if you haven't done so already.
Steve Adams
The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail. It contains
information that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission
through various mail systems. To decode the file use the UUDECODE
program.
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J0&1P<V,N9&QA+FUI;#X-"E1O.B!P86$S-S8U0&1P<V,N9&QA+FUI;`T*
end
Return to table of contents
Date: 16 May 1996 09:35:34 -0600
From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode at sdrc.com>
Subject: Mills and Digest contents
I've been using a corona since october and have been experiencing varying
(lousy to ok) efficiencies. I've even tried Dr. Fix's 40-60-70 schedule and
ended up with 24 pt/lb/gallon. I make great beer, but it bugs me. I have
noticed that when I used 50% Schrier 2 row and 50% DWC, my yield goes closer
to 27. So...
Could the Schrier be stale, and would that account for low extract?
Could the corona be to blame? I crush it pretty fine, and have had no stuck
sparges (using the EZMasher (tm)). Could the torn husks be affecting my pH?
Does anybody reading this live in the Milwaukee area, and if so, have you
gotten a water analysis?
On another topic, people were complaining about the recent decrease in quality
of posts. Back in October, when I started reading this, there was a thread on
drinking and driving on private property that went on forever. Seems to me
that things haven't changed much.
Craig
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:48:02 -0500
From: danmcc at umich.edu (Daniel S. McConnell)
Subject: Music (and beer) from the wood
Hi all:
I am interested in semi-organizing an acoustic jam session at the National
Conference in New Orleans. This will be dependent on me finding a place to
play-say an unused conference room, lobby, hallway or pool side.
Therefore I invite all that are planning or can plan to bring their
instruments to the conference to get in touch with me and see what we can
come up with. I think we should limit it to acoustic instruments for the
sake of sanity (besides, I don't want to haul a bass amp down). If there
is enough interest, we can discuss songlists, alternate tunings and keys.
DanMcC
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:05:29 -0400
From: pfeine at osf1.gmu.edu (Paul Feine)
Subject: hop bags, contamination, and maturity
>> I have had 3 infected brews in a row and never had a problem with 20
>>previous batches. The symptoms are small stringy white stuff on the top of
>>the bottle, gushing of the brew after opened, and a distinct off-flavor in
>>the brew. I am hoping that I have narrowed down what the problem is. I had
>>purchased 2 Hop-Tech bags of E.Kent Goldings hop flowers. I have used these
>>only for dry hopping.
This is not so much as an answer to the contamination problem as another
question about dry hopping in the secondary. What about hop bags? Do y'all
take pains to sterilize your hop bags? What kind of bags do you prefer? How
many uses can you get out of a nylon bag?
In an unrelated question, what is it about the aging process that causes
the beer to improve? How would you characterize the differences, say,
between a pale ale with near full carbonation a few days after botting with
the same beer a month later?
Thanks, Paul
pfeine at gmu.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:44:49 -0400
From: "Ronald S. Thomson" <cky163 at crocker.com>
Subject: rye in wit beer
I have found the recent thread on rye interesting as I have been considering
using rye in a wit beer. I'm looking at having the rye at 5% - 7% of the
grain bill with the rest being split between pilsener and wheat. I have
heard that rye can add a slight sourness, when used in the proper amounts,
and that may add to the character of wit beer. A few questions: which
would be better for a wit - rye malt or flaked rye? is 5% - 7% of the grain
bill an appropriate amount? I've been using unmalted wheat in my wit beers
(with good success), should I use malted wheat with the rye instead to avoid
a stuck sparge? will rye contribute to the haziness of my wit at this
amount (I've had problems maintaining a haze in my recipes)? is the
sourness rye sometimes contribute appropriate to the wit style? One final
question not concerning rye - how essential is curacao orange peel to the
style? I've used it in all my wits but it seems that most of the aroma and
flavor comes from the yeast and coriander.
Thanks for any advice
Ron
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Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:30:22 -0500
From: "Douglas R. Jones" <djones at iex.com>
Subject: Re: How do I use TSP for sanitizing?
On Tue, 14 May 96 12:27:44 PDT hollen at vigra.com diligently typed:
>>>>> "Lenny" == Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at parker.inter.net.il> writes:
In article
Lenny> The subject says it all. I have seen references on using
Lenny> trisodium phosphate (TSP) for sanitizing, but I don't remember
Lenny> ever seeing specifics. Could someone who uses TSP write about
Lenny> exactly how they sanitize? Concentrations and times, etc.
You don't. TSP is *NOT* a sanitizer, but a cleaner. CTSP
(chlorinated TSP) will sanitize, but is hard to find. You would be
much better off to use iodophor for sanitization. It can be kept in a
sealed opaque container for long periods, this stretching its useful
life nearly indefinitely.
Dion is correct. CTSP is available from the Home Brewery. Their URL is:
http://www.homebrewery.com/
Works great as a bottle cleaner!
Doug
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:03:35 -0400
From: RMoline930 at aol.com
Subject: Stuck Sparge/ Secondary Infection/ Mill Gap/ 3 Tier/ Market it Easy?
<McGuire at hvsun.mdc.com asks about a stuck sparge/ floating mash>.
I'm not surprised that your sparge stuck, with all that cracked corn! Your
suggestion that you may have cracked the corn too finely seems right on the
money to me. If I dumped that much 'creamed corn' in a mash, I would expect
the same result.
I have seen the 'floating mash' phenomenon also, and while I have never been
curious enough to try to identify the cause, I find that it settles down
nicely once recirc gets going. Also, have you tried pre-gelled flaked corn?
<Bob Bissett has an infection in secondary>
I think that the infection was probably there in primary, but that's just an
intuitive reaction. You state that it still smelled good in primary, but by
the time you went to secondary, your ph should have dropped enough to limit
the beasties, and the ETOH levels should also be inhibitory.
I certainly wouldn't point the finger at dry-hopping, although it is
possible. BTW, when I dry hop my IPA, I simply put a pair of panty hose
inside a 5 gallon bucket, such that the waist is stretched out around the top
and the legs dangle in the pail. Then place it, pail and all on the scale,
tare it out, and put in 5 lbs of EKG pellets. Tie up the waist, invert the
nylon, and stick the legs up through the CIP port in the top of the Grundy,
and tie up the legs over a knife or spoon, in order to suspend the hops high
enough to not interfere with the racking arm, and transfer the beer in.
I used to sanitize the hose with Iodophor and wring it out before putting the
pellets in, but have stopped that practice. It just hasn't caused any
problems, and knock on wood, there has yet to be an infection in any batch
yet produced.
<Jim DePalma comments on lossening up the Mill Gap>
I couldn't agree more. I used to use Briess pre-ground wheat to avoid having
to adjust the gap when doing a wheat beer. But then went to whole DWC wheat
for an extraction trial, using the same gap as usual. Extraction remained the
same.
<Ken Joseph's recirc question on his 3 Tier>
Just pour it in gently.
<Steve Ulery and his "Market it Easy">
Bloody hell, what's next? Snake oil? I, like other brewers posting, may
display a bit of BS from time to time, but this is too much!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"My mates always said I was a bit of an Idiot, Every now and then I just have
to prove them Right!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Fuller's ESB clone
I have had a number of responses to my plea for advice on producing a
Fuller's ESB clone. Some of the info is new some I've seen before, but
what seems clear is that Fuller, Smith, and Turner changed their recipe
and process (new mash tuns at the least) for their ESB sometime in the
last 5 (?) years. In the past they used sugar, but now it appears they
use 5-10% flaked maize instead. There is also some disagreement over the
mash schedule. Very reliable sources say a rest at 60C (140F), then on to
67C (152F), others say a single infusion at 69C (156F). Seems clear that
they use Target for bittering, Challenger and/or Northdown for late
additions (England's 3 most popular hops in that order) and Goldings for
dry hop.
If anyone has been to the Fuller, Smith, and Turner Chiswick, London
brewery in the past year or two I would appreciate very much hearing
anything you learned while there. Please mention the date that you were
there.
As an aside, my last attempt was close. It had some of the honey/floral
sweetness that I get from Fuller's ESB (it's the yeast), hop flavor and
aroma was good as was color, but for some unexplained reason I tried for
and hit 45 IBUs. Needless to say that wonderful gentle sweetness was
slammed down by a somewhat harsh bitterness.
Thanks to all. I will summarize when more recent info comes in.
Domenick Venezia
Computer Resources
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com
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Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:15:12 -0400
From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com>
Subject: Re: Homemade Mills
G'mornin' Brewsters.
In HBD #2038, Howard of Fell's Pt., MD wrote...
>As if I don't have enough ongoing home projects....(And Ken, this one's gonna
>have to come before your temp controller - wood's easier than electronics!)
>Have any extract brewers out there made a small grain mill for specialty
>grains??? The rolling pin's getting a little old...We're talkin' ~ 2# / batch..
>I know I should be doing research before asking the group, but that's what
>you're for. Any plans, advice, comments would be greatly appreciated, as always
>Public or private....thanks.
I was in the local homebrew store last weekend and I saw a new book on
woodworking projects for winemakers. One of the projects was a 2 roller
grain mill. Granted the rollers were made of wood, but it looks like what
you're talking about. I don't know the author's name, but I think the title
is 'Woodworking Projects for Winemakers'. They sell it at St. Louis Wine &
Beer (they're in the book, no I don't have the number, no I'm not
affiliated, yes I have to say that 'cause someone flamed me for omitting the
disclaimer...) if you want more info.
Hope this helps. If you decide to make it, let us know how it turns out.
Skol.
-------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust, Master Brewer |
Jack Pine Savage Brewery | Im Himmel es gibt kein bier,
Shiloh, IL (NACE) | War es wir trinken hier!
-------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:34:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Subject: immersion chiller dimensions
Dear HBD Collective,
I am going to build an immersion chiller, and would like to get your ideas
(or hard data if you have it) regarding the best size of copper tubing to
use (apologies if this is a topic that has been beaten to death at an earlier
time).
The 3/8" O.D. and 1/2" O.D. tubing seem to be popular choices. I'm considering
the narrower 1/4" O.D. tubing because the surface-to-volume ratio is greater
for narrower tubing than it is for wider tubing (for a given volume of water).
My thinking is that in the narrower tubing more of the water will come into
contact with the hot copper surface, and more heat will be transferred to the
water.
Of course theory is one thing, and reality is sometimes another thing. How do
your real-life experiences correspond with this idea?
TIA,
Greg King
gking at arserrc.gov
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:44:07 -0400
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Extract Water Saga Continues
Some of the comments I made in response to M&F's letter to Greg King about
extract water mineral content were rebutted by Al Korzonas in HBD2038. He
reasoned that since ~20% of extract is water that there must be at least 20%
makeup water (well water) in each new mash (Al guessed about 30% total
including makeup for other losses). But 20% of the *extract* is not 20% of
the *mash*! I responded to Al with some of my own guesstimates and came up
with something like 10%. However, he noted that I had neglected several
sources of loss and had made a couple of other blow-by's (what else is new),
but we finally agreed that each mash would contain about 15 - 20 percent
makeup water. And since *all* the minerals stay in the wort after being
"dried" to syrup or powder, this same 15 - 20% is going to end up in your
brew.
If the ground water contains 300 ppm SO4 as Al speculated, we could then
expect the extract to contribute perhaps 50 ppm to the final beer. For a
delicate lager this would be excessive; for a porter it's probably fine; for
an IPA you'd still want to toss in some gypsum and/or epsom salt. That's
assuming you start with ion-free water; anything in your brewing water is
*added* to the extract's contribution.
This calls into question any conclusions about extract having a nominally low
water mineral profile. I guess that puts extract brewers back into the dark
about water! Extract made in different locations would have different
profiles. If you know where the extract was made and you have a water
profile for that region, you could perhaps guess at 15 - 20% of the profile
being in your beer as a starting point for estimating further treatment, but
that may be an oversimplification.
This all assumes that *all* extract manufacturers similarly recycle 80 - 85%
of the condensate. Iit seems reasonable to assume that this is generally the
case because of the water expense were they to just dump the condensate after
each batch. However, the efficiency of the recovery process, the source and
quality of the makeup water, and many other factors will determine the final
profile.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
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Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:00:05 -0500
From: matthew.t.apple.1 at nd.edu (Matt Apple)
Subject: Sanitizing kegs
Hi. I've been lurking for about two weeks (frankly, I've been too
intimidated by all these technical-chemistry talks about yeast and wort
reactions and such. I'm a creative writing grad student who can barely
balance his check book; math equations make me queasy).
I've made three batches so far solely from malt extract (two Imperial
Stouts, one Wheat), and right now I've got a brown ale extract/speciality
grain batch in the secondary (I know you don't need to put ales in
secondaries, but I didn't have a strainer for the grains and hops, so I'm
waiting a couple of weeks for it to clarify a bit). I'm planning on putting
some in a 5L keg and the rest in bottles. (Actually, I didn't understand
any of that talk about CO2; I can't afford a CO2 pump, so with my borrowed
handtap, I guess I'll just have to drink the whole thing when my birthday
comes around in a few weeks.)
The question is: my "kegging instructions" suggests using an iodine-based
sanitizer for the keg (I assume this is what Iodophor is). I've been using
standard household bleach for all the sanitation. What difference does it
make? Is it necessary to use Iodophor for kegs? I read some remarks that
bleach gives off-flavors, but so far I haven't experienced anything like
that.
This may be my last batch for the summer. I live in a concrete apartment
here in lovely South Bend, and I doubt my fans will be able to keep it cool
enough for yeast to survive. By the way, how much does the average wort
chiller go for? I was thinking of just buying a small fridge and sticking
the primary in it before pitching.
Matt A.
matthew.t.apple.1 at nd.edu
http://www.nd.edu/~mapple
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Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:34:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Subject: Gambrinus Malts
FYI, here is the analysis I got from Gambrinus on their malts. It is
probably 6 months or so old, but it should be accurate enough to give
everybody an idea. The Munich 100 makes a great breakfast ceral :)
Typical Analysis for Gambrinus Malts
Pale Mun90 Mun100 Honey Wheat ESB Pale
Plumpness, >6/64" % >95 >90 >90 >85 >95 >95
Moisture %H2O 4-4.5 <4.5 <4.5 <4.5 <4.5 4-4.5
Colour, Deg Lov 1.8-2 9-11 25-35 20-30 1.8-2 2.5
Fine Extract, %db 82 81 81 81 84 82
Coarse Extract, %db 80 79 79 79 82 80
Total Protein, %db <10.9 11-12 11-12 11-12 11-12 <10.9
Soluble Prot mg N/l 900 1050 1050 1150 900 900
Soluble Prot g/100g 4.5-5 5.5-6 5.5-6 5.4 4.5-5 4.5-5
Kolback 45-50 50-55 50-55 55 45 45-50
Viscosity <1.7 1.75 1.75 1.75 2 <1.7
pH 5.9-6.1 5.4 5.4 5.4 5.9 5.9-6.1
Diastatic Power 120 90 60 <50 80-90 120
Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co.
waltman at netcom.com
http://www.homebrew.inter.net
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Date: Thu, 16 May 96 18:33:56 EDT
From: pbrian at Tudor.Com (Paul Brian)
Subject: grain flour,hsa
Hello Brewers,
There's been a lot of discussion lately about malt mills
and their crush effeciency that I've mainly been scrolling
past. I'm an extract brewer and buy specialty grains pre-
crushed at no extra charge so I have no need for one. However,
the grains usually arive with a fair amount of flour in the bag.
On brew day I dump the bag in 1-2 gal. of warm water, bring to
150 deg. for about 3/4 hour, strain through a not-so-fine strainer,
rinse grains with hot water, discard grains and I'm off and brewing
from there. A couple of questions regarding this technique:
1-A fair amount of the flour makes it through the strainer, and thus,
into the brew kettle to be boiled. I know grains shouldn't be
boiled because of the tannins issue(that's about as specific as I can
get on that issue). Does this apply to the flour that makes it to the
boil also, or is the amount so small that I need not worry about it?
2-While straining and rinsing, a good amount of aeration takes place. Is
this hot-side-aeration(HSA?) or does that only apply to wort after it is
boiled? While we're at it, can someone give me a quick and easy HSA
explanation and how it adversely effects the taste of beer?
Since most of my beer comes out tasting pretty good, I would venture to
guesse that the answer to these questions is "Relax. Bad effects due to
these pracrices will be minimal. Don't worry. Keep doing what you're doing.
Have a homebrew." As if I need to be told.(burp)
Paul Brian
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 96 12:27:47 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Ads
Okay, this is getting out of hand:
>Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:35:17 -0500
>From: Steve <consultant at i-55.com>
>Subject: Inforamtion You Requested
>
>Thank you very much for your inquiry. Below is a detailed explanation
>on how our ad would work. I have personnaly made over $25,000 in my
>first sixty days with this program.
<snip>
I suggest that the HBD software be modified so that non-subscribers
cannot post. This will not only reduce the number of ads such as this
one, but also eliminate all the "please subscribe me" posts. If a
subscriber gets out of hand and starts posting ads repeatedly, they
can be silenced by unsubscribing them.
The only snag is that some people receive their HBD via rec.crafts.brewing
and others via the BITNET listserver, but perhaps a list of email addresses
subscribers could be kept which allow posting, but are not included in
the direct HBD distribution?
Sorry that this was not beer related, but two ads like this in one
week is two too many. I hope you all emailed "Steve" and informed him
of his grave mistake like I did.
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 96 16:18:18 PDT
From: Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at aisf.com>
Subject: Affect of Hunter Airstat on freezer question
I'm posting this for a friend whose employer feels that receipt of the
HBD would interfere with his ability to make them money:
I have a Hunter Airstat (sorry I dont have the model #) that I would
like to use to control the temperature of my keg refrigerator so that
I can do some lagering. The way that this thing works is that you put
the controller between the refrigerator and the electrical outlet and
then set a temperature that you want it to control to. The controller
senses the temperature of the refrigerator through this little thingy
that looks like a microphone but must be some kind of thermocouple and
turns the electricity on and off such that the temperature is maintained.
The question I have is whether or not the freezer section will remain
at frozen temperatures or will the Airstat cause the compressor to cut
out too frequently to keep it cold? Is there some way to have the
Airstat control only the temperature of the refrigerator section? I am
relatively handy and am not afraid of doing some adaptation of the
controller and/or refrigerator if its called for.
I would appreciate any and all help in this issue
Mark Fryling
Please reply to me or post to the digest.
Seems to me that by keeping a temp within a tighter range, the cycle time
will simply be shortened and this should not affect the operation of the
freezer. And besides, doesn't the refrigerator section lack active
cooling of its own and so is cooled by excess slow molecules from the
freezer section? Will the defrost cycle be affected or cause problems?
Should it be disabled?
Thanks!
Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA
kacz at aisf.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 May 96 19:35:36 EST
From: "Brian P. Colgan" <bcolgan at sungard.com>
Subject: Home Brewery plans please!
bpc 16may:
I have a problem that I'm sure a lot of you wish you shared. I've cleaned out
my springhouse that is about 20 ft from my pool, for use as a brew house.
Interior dimensions are about 10ft by 16ft, with about two ft of the width taken
up by the mud-bottomed, two ft deep trench that stays about 55 degrees all
through the summer. The problem is I need to design the counter space for the
brewery. I have all the parts for a 3-tier 1/2 barrel system, and I want to set
it up right from the beginning.
So if anyone out there has any plans from their brewery that they'd like to
share, I can use the input! My fax number is 215 627-7009, or email is great
too.
thanks!
Brian Colgan "Every one has to believe in something."
bcolgan at sungard.com "I believe I'll have another homebrew."
h:(610) 527-8896 / w: (215) 627-3800
Radnor, PA.
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