---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  On the selling homebrew thread... (Craig Stewart)
  RE: Pressure Reduction on Keg Lines (waterr at rpi.edu (Bob Waterfall))
  Skunky Beer (Jack Schmidling)
  all grain wit recipe needed... (Jerry Cunningham)
  RRIMS (Carrick Legrismith)
  Re: Skunky Beer ("Patrick G. Babcock")
  hops ("BRIAN J. MALLARD")
  Is his yeast ruined? (Robert Servranckx)
  Health officials & homebrew (Suzette Smith)
  Extraction per Tracy (Bill Giffin)
  Leaking corny kegs and grassy beer -reply (Steve Potter)
  HBD gone walkabout (hollen at vigra.com)
  Re: leaky corny kegs (rick at adc.com (Rick Larson))
  Mill Construction (roller material) ("Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2")
  Rest & Esters (h.smith at e-mail.com)
  RE:Grassy beer, partial mash sparge, chillers,cloudy beer (George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro))
  Re: immersion chiller summary (uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima))
  That awsome miller beer  ("Dave Higdon")
  Brewvana Graphical Chat Space (Steve Armbrust)
  storing your beer (Stetson)
  Competition Results (Shawn Steele)
  Re:Grassy tasting beer (fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick))
  Recipe and first wort question (Bill Press)
  Selling beer (Gordon Baldwin)
  when a beer is a beer (CHRISTOPHER DIIORIO         )
  Sealing lids on Kegs (Kyle R Roberson)
  Sierra Nevada PORTER recipe??? (Daniel DeBeer)

NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESSES
  homebrew at aob.org                (SUBMISSIONS only)
  homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org (for REQUESTS only)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at aob.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via BEER-L NET, you must unsubscribe by sending a
  one line e-mail to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L
This list service is now being provided by majordomo at aob.org, so some
  of the commands may have changed.  For technical problems send
  e-mail to the Digest Janitor, shawn at aob.org.
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.

ARCHIVES & OTHER INFORMATION

Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org or visit
http://alpha.rollanet.org on the Web.  Othere information is available by
e-mail from info at aob.org and on the AHA's web site at http://www.aob.org/aob.
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu.
  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the
  password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.
  AFS users can find it at /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.
  If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail
  using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about
  this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with
  the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.  Some
  archives are available via majordomo at aob.org.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Craig Stewart <foghorn1 at mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:02:00 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: On the selling homebrew thread...

Folks,

I just read the article that the gentleman wrote on selling collers with 
free homebrew for charity.  I personaly have no problem with that.  But 
according to the LETTER of the law (I checked) here in New Brunswick, 
Canada, I can't even remove my homebrew from MY HOUSE!  I take some to a 
party and get caught, well, not very pretty.  One cop told me that they 
could impound it etc, etc, loose drivers license (something about not 
being in sealed cardboard swill cases...) etc, etc.  I just told him that 
he could have the damn stuff, just take my address and return the 
bottles!  So, just be careful, and for the best part, don't tell anyone 
what you are doing.  Some peoples tounges are hung in the middle and wag 
at both ends!

Hoppy brewing!

- --
**************************************************************************
Fancy sig deleted to save space...
**************************************************************************  

flames to /dev/null

Craig Stewart
foghorn1 at mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca


Return to table of contents


From: waterr at rpi.edu (Bob Waterfall)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:38:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Pressure Reduction on Keg Lines

In hbd2059 Pat Babcock says:
>Warning: Diatribe Capacitor Discharging...
>
>For the genius types who will now jump up and down and say there is
>no drop without flow, it will vary with viscosity, etc. I ask that
>you take pause and consider the concepts of nominals and benchmarks.
>I'm sure the people that rate these things know a whole lot more
>about what they're doing than you apparently do - though they are a
>lot less interested in looking like "The Mighty Brain". The ratings
>are likely done at some *nominal* viscosity and flow rate and
>provide a *benchmark* for those of us without a fluid dynamics lab
>in our basement, dontchathink?

Since Pat brings up some of the points I was trying to make in my post a
couple of weeks ago in this thread, I can't help but think that I must be
one of the "genius types" he's ranting about.  If I *am* one of the folks
he's refering to, I would just like to point out (without jumping up or
down) that Jay Reeves was wondering why he wasn't getting anything close to
the table values (that Pat tells us are from an article in "Just Brew It").
Having a little knowledge (I know, a dangerous thing :-)) and a Chem. Engg.
Handbook, I was just trying to provide some ideas as to why Jay's hose
needed to be so much longer than the 2.2-3 psi/ft predicted.  Obviously, one
or more things about his system are different from the "nominal" conditions
of the data table, making the "benchmark" close to useless.

My point about viscosity (although not clearly expressed) is that the
temperature, OG, and SG of your beer can have a considerable effect on the
viscosity and thus the pressure drop in the hose.  It seemed to be the best
explanation for why Jay needed 16 feet of line instead of the 5.4 that he
calculated to drop his pressure.  Pat's more complete citation of the data
shows that hose material can also make a big difference.

>Using the guidelines set out in charts outlining the drop per foot
>in a given beer line, and knowing your typical dispensing conditions,
>you can put a picnic faucet on enough line to give pleasant results.
>May not be *PERFECT* because of flow rate, the (minutely) differing
>viscosities of your beer and the unknown viscosity/flow rate of the
>test fluid which generated the numbers, but it'll get you close. And
>close is what we're all about...

I beg to differ.  Jay's problem was that it didn't get him very close at
all.  It was off by 10 and a half feet.  If beer follows the same trend as
the 40% alcohol solution I had data for, then a 20 degF difference in
serving temperature could account for a good chunk of the difference (about
1/4 to 1/3 of it).

To use Pat's electric current analogy, resistors can have very different
resistances if they heat up, true?  If your circuit response changes due to
a change in the ambient temp., don't you think that would be something you
should take into account when moving 

If Pat is right and I was being pedantic, my apologies to one and all.

On another note, I see I wasn't the only one to note the odd placement of
the toilets in the new brewpub in Dublin.
Bob Waterfall <waterr at rpi.edu>,
Troy, NY, USA


Return to table of contents


From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 21:23:49 -0700
Subject: Skunky Beer

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------54C47CB262EF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I wonder if I am the only one on earth who likes skunky beer.  I owe it
to the Digest that I know what causes it but it was only recently that
I have come to enjoy a bit of it as nostalgic walk down memory lane.  I
recall the taste from when, as a child, I would sneak a taste of beer 
from the big folks.

On (rare) sunny days, we take our afternoon glass of beer down to the
picknic table by the pond and within minutes, that lovely skunky taste
begins to pervade my beer.

Some may think that here is no extreme I won't go to in order to find
something to argue about.   But I say, try it, you just might like it
too.

js

- --------------54C47CB262EF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BEERSIG.TXT"


                           ***********************
 Visit our Web page for product flyers, applications info and other
  totally unbiased opinions from the World's Greatest Brewer.
                      http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/




- --------------54C47CB262EF--




Return to table of contents


From: Jerry Cunningham <gcunning at census.gov>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 07:26:34 -0400
Subject: all grain wit recipe needed...

I'm looking for a good all-grain wit recipe. Any help would be greatly
appreciated...

Thanks!

- - Jerry Cunningham
  Annapolis, MD


Return to table of contents


From: Carrick Legrismith <"hiscope at c4systm.com" at c4systm.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:12:59 -0700
Subject: RRIMS

All,
With my recirculation system, designated RRIMS, (Reduced Rapid I Movement 
System), it allows me to do other things that need attention instead of 
just mashing. Like play with my kids, read, invent and drink beer. 
Different systems are for different people, and the general consensus is 
that I fit in the latter. Does it make better beer? I can't really say,  
maybe on one batch I will turn it off  and not use it --- NOT! 

Carrick 
Hiscope Brewery
hiscope at c4systm.com
Clinton,  MI

Return to table of contents


From: "Patrick G. Babcock" <pbabcock at ford.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:40:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Skunky Beer

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your Corona...

On Jun 5,  9:23pm, "The World's Greatest Brewer" wrote:
> Subject: Skunky Beer
>
> I wonder if I am the only one on earth who likes skunky beer.  I owe it
> to the Digest that I know what causes it but it was only recently that
> I have come to enjoy a bit of it as nostalgic walk down memory lane.  I
> recall the taste from when, as a child, I would sneak a taste of beer
> from the big folks.
<SNIP>
>-- End of excerpt from Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only

Ah, nostalgia! I remember this, too. And I remember my pop explaining that 
beer
shouldn't be in the sun 'cause it'll get that flavor. Never could understand 
it
until the Digest spewed forth another Knowledge McNugget.

Can't say I really *liked* it - but there was a time in my sordid past when I
could be found scarfing buritos and swilling Coronas with a LIME shoved down
the neck at The Mexico Inn.  Skunks seem to go with lime.  I also remember
drinking horribly skunked Grolsch and enjoying it because I was supposed to.
But, then again, I can remember when I didn't like the taste of barley wines,
lambics, wheat beers...

It is interesting that how, as we become more and more educated in our craft,
things that used to be pleasurable to us yield up previously undetected 
demons.
 Kind of like the death of innocence.  The more we know, the more complicated
our lives become because we narrow our choices - the things available to
satisfy become fewer and more difficult to find. In a way, I envy your 
apparent
ability to get around the demons and recapture the experience.  But I wouldn't
give up the knowledge for the world...

See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE MI    pbabcock at oeonline.com
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html

Copyright 1996 Guide Posts. All rights protected by a moment of silence.


Return to table of contents


From: "BRIAN J. MALLARD" <bmallard at kean.ucs.mun.ca>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 10:18:36 GMT-3:30
Subject: hops

I want to take the "homemade" beer taste off my beer. How do I do that? Is it 
by using hops or hop pellets? The bottom line is I want to make my beer as
close tasting to commercial beer as possible without getting too complicated.
Any and all suggestions would be welcome.  Please e-mail directly to:
BMallard at morgan.ucs.mun.ca       ...and thanks!

Return to table of contents


From: Robert Servranckx <Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:47:19 -0700
Subject: Is his yeast ruined?

Ok friends, here's the scoop: A buddy of mine brewed a batch a couple of 
weeks ago. Due to circumstances beyond his control (warm weather, small 
brain, little intelligence), the beer was fermented at a most 
yeast-unfriendly temperature of 77F. According to him, a recent 
taste sample showed the brew to be somewhere between bad and tasting like 
nail polish remover. (Ok, so I have a tendency to exaggerate just a bit)
So this batch will probably end up down the drain to feed the sewer rats. 
But the question is: what about the yeast? He repitched the yeast cake 
into a gallon of wort, let it ferment and bottled the yeasty beer for 
future use. Is there any reason NOT to re-use this bottled yeast? Did the 
warm fermentation temparature permanently change the profile of the 
yeast? Please let me know. He used a pack of Wyeast London Ale yeast.

Thanks in advance.

Rob in Montreal
Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca

Return to table of contents


From: Suzette Smith <SSMITH1 at drew.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 09:23:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Health officials & homebrew

                                        Date:     06-Jun-1996 09:13am EST
                                        From:     Smith, Suzette
                                                  SSMITH1
                                        Dept:     FAC/STAFF
                                        Tel No:   (201)-408-3208

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _in%HOMEBREW at AOB.ORG )


Subject: Health officials & homebrew

Keith,

I was surprised to hear a similar story about the health officials and my 
local homebrew supply store. The difference is this story has a happy 
ending. 

My friend was told during the inspection that since she sells grains (a 
food stuff) she needed to have a second sink put in and pass inspection as 
a restaurant! It didn't matter that nothing was done to the grain at the 
store except milling it. No mention was made of the hops though.
It turns out that the official was a relaxed kinda guy so he let 
it slide. I wonder if regular mills (flour etc) are required to be 
inspected under restaurant guidelines? (I can't imagine even thinking 
about eating in any of the mills I've been to...)

Tell your buddy to start beating down the doors of his local officials. 
There are few enough homebrew supply stores. 

Wish I was in New Orleans...

Suzette
Madison, NJ (the OTHER Madison)

Return to table of contents


From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 10:11:58 -0500
Subject: Extraction per Tracy

Good morning,

Tracy said:
>I think the most likely explanation for your observation is simple
coincidence. In fact, it's quite likely that the differences you've observed
in extraction efficiency are not significant at a commonly accepted level
of statistical confidence (eg. 95%), indicating a high probability of
random correlation between unrelated variables.

Pure gobbledygook.  How can you make an informed statistical
evaluation of my observations without knowing the sample size etc. 
How can you be sure with statistical confidence that I am wrong?

 >If higher extraction rates invariably produced higher quality beer, I'm
certain this observation would have been previously reported in the
brewing literature, yet I've never come across such a reference. 

Most brewing lit is written for professional brewers it is assumed that
they will get extraction within the range for the brew house they have
and the malt that they are using.  Homebrewers on the other hand
frequently do not get extraction within the acceptable range so they just
add more and more malt to the mash tun to get the same extraction.

>Another possibility stems from 'beer judge bias'.
Bigger beers tend to win in competitions. Most experienced brewers
know this and use it to advantage when brewing beers for
competitions. I don't doubt the fact that the beers that you say did
better in competitions tasted better, but I do doubt that this can be
attributed to increased extraction efficiency with any confidence. 

More gobbledegook  Making assumptions  which are incorrect.  
Most of the beers I brew are within the 1.040-1.050  range hardly
bigger beers.  When I brew for competition I brew to style usually in
the mid of the style guideline.  When I enter a competition I usually win
with at least with one  of  my beers.  

>There's more to making great beer than just squeezing every last drop
of sugar from the malt. The process used is extremely important,
particularly for certain specific beer styles.

Agreed!  I am not talking about over extraction.  I am talking about
getting the same sort of extraction that professional brewers get.

>Aha! It's highly probable that your observation can be attributed to
"improving the process" (i.e. extraction rate increased along with
improved beer quality). The fact that the two events are correlated does
not indicate causation.

GOBBLEDEGOOK again assumptions not in fact.

Tracy what is your extraction rate?

Many of homebrewer have extract in the 25 PPG range.  If you can get
33 PPG then the homebrewer with 25 PPG has 30%  more husk
material in their grist and the chance of 30% more tannins and silica in
their wort then the brewer with the 33 PPG.    I think I would rather have a
bit lower tannin and silica thank you.  Got to keep the beer in balance
at every step of the brewing process.

> Welcome to the 21st century!

Don't rush it.  I have been very happy brewing in the 18th century. 
Most of the equipment used is more appropriate to that century.  By
the by I am old enough LETS get through the rest of the 20th century.


Bill


Return to table of contents


From: Steve Potter <spotter at Meriter.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 10:22:03 -0500
Subject: Leaking corny kegs and grassy beer -reply

Several folks have mentioned leaking around the top of corneilius kegs. 
Sometimes the lids from one keg don't exactly match the openings from
another.  Try switching keg tops around.  When you find
combinations that work, mark the keg and lid so that you can repeat
the match up.  Also, sometimes a lid that will not seal when in one
position will seal if it is rotated 180 degrees.  

Grassy beer after dry hopping is the norm in my experience.  Try
removing the hops and waiting a week.  The beer will slowly change
character back to what you consider "normal hop flavor."  I think it is a
pity as I like that grassy flavor.


Return to table of contents


From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 96 08:22:40 PDT
Subject: HBD gone walkabout

I am sorry to say that for the last 3 days, the HomeBrew Digest has
been lost to rec.crafts.brewing.  We had a major fileserver crash and
have been offline and bouncing all mailing list Email back to the
originators.  I may have even have been unsubscribed for an excessive
amount of returned Email, but I will take that up with Shawn to make
sure I get back on.  I will go out and get them from the archives and
post them.

I apologize to you all for this happening, but it is even worse here.
We have had 6 engineers sitting on their thumbs for 3 days with
nothing to do (and costing the company big $$ while doing it).

dion

Return to table of contents


From: rick at adc.com (Rick Larson)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:25:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: leaky corny kegs

Bob writes:
> 
> I've been having problems with leaking around the lid on some of my kegs, I
> replaced the rubber seal without any improvement. Has anyone else had this
> problem or have a suggestion as to what to try next?  TIA

I just fixed a leaky keg.  I put the lid on and filled the keg with CO2.  I
covered the top with soapy water.  Using a ball pean hammer, I wacked the
lid/seal area until the bubbles stopped.

YMMV.

rick
- -- 
Rick Larson                    rick at adc.com
Minneapolis

Return to table of contents


From: "Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2" <gjolson at bpa.gov>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 09:01:00 PDT
Subject: Mill Construction (roller material)

I'm still toying with the design of my (so far) theoretical malt mill. 
 Originally I planned on turning hardwood (not Lignum vitae - it's supposed 
to be oily) rollers on a lathe.  I have access to some relatively large 
diameter (4-5") aluminum pipe.  This would be easy to work with (and free), 
but I have some concern if the pipe would be hard enough.  Alternately I can 
get some small (1.5") SS pipe for the same price.  Any comments would be 
appreciated.  Tia.

On a separate note, my Dopplebock came out tasting similar to SA's Cream 
Stout.  I assume this was caused my poor temp control during lagering.

Greg Olson - Grouchy Bear Brewery, Lake Oswego, OR

Return to table of contents


From: h.smith at e-mail.com
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 12:02:20 EDT
Subject: Rest & Esters

2 quickies.....
What is the protein rest for? I take it that it's to break down proteins, but
why? What significance does it have in final beer...clarity? body? head
retention??

And exactly what are esters? What do they taste/smell like? I read that 
they're
'desirable' in some ales....can someone clue me in here. Thanks alot.
Howard


Return to table of contents


From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:59:55 -0700
Subject: RE:Grassy beer, partial mash sparge, chillers,cloudy beer

     Steve Gravel writes that his dry hopped beer tastes grassy.  Does it 
     smell grassy, too?  Perhaps if you vent and repressurize the keg daily 
     the grassiness will be purged (of course, desirable aromas may also 
     fade-it's a tradeoff).
     
     There is a short thread (a stringette?) about performing a partial 
     mash and just lifting the grain bag out of the liquid and going to the 
     boil.  One person suggested "sparging" by dunking the grain bag in 
     170F water and then adding that to the boil.  Perhaps I'm just being 
     too traditional, but this doesn't really sound like a good idea.
     
     First, your extraction rate will not be very good.  Even if you don't 
     care about that, the next reason should cause you concern:  you will 
     not be clarifying the wort in the least bit by this method.  In fact, 
     you will probably get a ton of husk material in the wort!  This will 
     very likely lead to grainy astringency in the finished beer, which 
     most people will not find pleasant.
     
     IMHO, partial mashes are useless.  Yes, I did a couple when I first 
     started, so I speak from experience.  The kind of jury-rigged 
     equipment and unique procedures employed by most partial mashers 
     (including myself) lead to low extract rates and "interesting" beer.
     
     It's really not difficult or expensive to assemble the equipment for 
     all-grain brewing (Papazian's "Zap-pap" lauter tun costs <$10 to make 
     and works great).  The scary chemistry of starch conversion may 
     intimidate novices, but heck, people were making beer before they even 
     had thermometers or knew what pH meant!  IT WILL WORK!!!  Give it a 
     try!
     
     I'm just trying to encourage people to try all-grain, sorry if I come 
     across like a 2X4 to the head.
     
     Oh yeah, Jim DiPalma responds to Tom Puskar's question about cloudy 
     beer.  He asks if 10 minutes is too fast to chill the wort.  No, it 
     isn't, as long as it's cold after 10 minutes!  In fact, you'll get a 
     much better cold break if you cool the wort as quickly as possible.  
     My counterflow chiller gets 6 gallons of beer down to ~55F in 15 
     minutes.
     
     About the cloudiness...Jim said he tried fining his beer with several 
     different agents with no effect.  Is it possible that you had starch 
     in the beer?  You said that the malt was horribly undermodified.  If 
     you didn't have an efficient conversion (for whatever reason), or you 
     let the grains get over 168F at some point, you could have washed 
     starch into the wort.  This will not settle, whereas cold-break and 
     yeast eventually will.
     
     In my early days I thought I could make a pumpkin ale by just adding 2 
     cans of pumpkin to malt extract and water.  I found out first hand 
     what unconverted starch does to a beer's appearance, flavor, and 
     stability (it was as cloudy as Jupiter, tasted "interesting", and the 
     forgotten bottles started exploding two years later because bacteria 
     eat starch, whereas brewing yeast do not).
     
     George De Piro

Return to table of contents


From: uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 12:42:16 -0500
Subject: Re: immersion chiller summary

Dan <DJTIM at delphi.com> writes:
> Sorry Greg but whoever told you that the smaller diameter chiller should
> be longer is incorrect and doesn't understand heat exchanger design. The
> underlying assumption of getting the same volume of water through the 
> chiller is the right idea, but this should be accomplished by increasing
> the flow rate 

I agree so far.

> not length of tubing. 

I disagree here. You also need to consider the surface area of the chiller
which is in contact with the wort.

> If you lengthen the tubing and maintain the same flow rate all that will
> happen is that the extra length of tubing will become less effective at 
> removing the heat from the wort.

Yes, it's an issue of diminishing returns. But more tubing is *still* better.

> One of the critical factors in good 
> heat exchanger design is maintaining a high temperature differential 
> between the hot working fluid and the cold working fluid. As this 
> temperature difference becomes smaller less heat transfer will occur. So
> what will happen is that with 1/4" tubing the water in that extra length
> of tubing will be getting very hot (approaching wort temperatures) and 
> therefore its effectiveness at cooling becomes nil.

Ahh... but if the water at the outlet of the chiller is "very hot", then this
is an indication that we've done our job right! Given the same rate of flow,
hotter water at the outlet is an indication that *more* heat is being
transferred to the water -- therefore the chiller is more efficient overall,
and the wort will cool faster.

> Net result....the 1/4" diameter chiller should be SHORTER and not 
> longer, IF you maintain the same flow rate.

This is confusing and misleading. It implies that a shorter chiller would work
better than a longer one. Gee... what was I thinking? I should've used only 1
foot of tubing, instead of 25! :-)

- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov

Return to table of contents


From: "Dave Higdon" <DAVEH at qesrv1.bwi.wec.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:30:34 EST
Subject: That awsome miller beer 

Miller. Heart of the hops. What a joke.
 

. 

Return to table of contents


From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 13:09:00 PDT
Subject: Brewvana Graphical Chat Space

- ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes 
- ---------------------------
From: Ted Forgeron
Date: 6/6/96 12:50PM
To: Steve Armbrust
Subject: Re: Proposed Homebrew Digest text
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings,

I'm sending this message to several beer and brewing forums to 
announce the formation a new beer-related graphical internet chat 
space called Brewvana. Although still in the early stages of 
development, Brewvana lets you virtually visit nine Portland, Oregon 
brewpubs and microbreweries. You can see what the microbreweries look 
like (outside and in), visit with other people real-time, and even 
have on-line tastings or parties.

Brewvana is based on The Palace, a chat environment from Time-Warner. 
You can get a free copy of the Palace software by going to: 

  HTTP://WWW.THEPALACE.COM

If you're running a PC, you can speed up your initial access to 
Brewvana by downloading the Brewvana artwork ahead of time. To do 
that, point your web browser at:

  HTTP://WWW.HIGHBEAM.COM

I don't have the Mac version of the artwork available for downloading, 
so Mac users should just connect to Brewvana and the artwork will be 
downloaded as you go from room to room.

I'd love to have feedback on Brewvana.  Try it and tell me what you 
think.  If there's enough interest, I'd be willing to collect digital 
pictures of other people's favorite brewpubs and breweries and add 
them to Brewvana. 

DISCLAIMER:  I have no association with any of the brewpubs shown in 
Brewvana, just a satisfied customer. I do have an association with the 
Palace, but Brewvana is a labor of love, not an attempt to make money. 
As a long-time lurker, I realize that advertising in this forum is a 
sensitive issue, and if my association with the Palace causes people 
to be upset, I will accept the flames and speak of this no more.

Steve Armbrust
Steve_Armbrust at ccm.jf.intel.com

Return to table of contents


From: Stetson <stetson at global2000.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:02:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: storing your beer

Hello, I just did my first lager, and I am ready to bottle it.  My 
question is once bottled, do I store the bottles at fermenting temps or 
store it at the same temps I store ales and such?

Also I was wondering if anyone has a solution for sotring your beers?  I 
had them in my basement, and the temps were fine, it was a little cool 
down there, maybe like 60 degrees, but now that its getting hotter 
outside, my basement is no longer cool!  I don't know if there even is a 
solution for this, but I can't think of anywhere else where I could store 
them that would be cooler.
Thanks and happy brewing!
Stetson at global2000.net


Return to table of contents


From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 15:22:51 -0500
Subject: Competition Results

The 1996 National Homebrew Competition results will be available 
immediately after they are announced at the conference late Friday 
evening.  They will be available from our web site at 
http://www.aob.org/aob and also from our automated e-mail information 
line at info at aob.org.

Good Luck,
Shawn Steele

Return to table of contents


From: fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick)
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 16:38:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re:Grassy tasting beer

>Hi All,

>I kegged a brown ale on Sunday and dry hopped in the keg with 3/4 oz. 
>of Tettenanger hops in a nylon hop bag, I weighted the bag down with 
>sanitized marbles and attached it to the liquid in tube with a 
>sanitized binder clip.  This is the first time I've dry hopped in the 
>keg.  I usually dry hop in the secondary.  

>Here's the problem; My beer tastes grassy!  Now, don't get me wrong, I 
>like grass, I walk on it all the time, but I don't like drinking it!  
>What is the problem?  Is it the hops?  I can still taste the true hops 
>flavor behind the grassyness.  I've used these hops before, but not 
>for dry hopping, and have never tasted anything like this.  Could it 
>be that I just need to let the hops age a little?  If so, will they 
>age properly under 30 psi. of CO2?

>I guess I'll just have to drink pour a pint from the other keg for 
>awhile and try not to worry while I'm waiting for replies.....

>Thanx,

>       Steve Gravel     Newport, Rhode Island
>"Homebrew, It's not just a hobby, It's an adventure!" 


This seems to be a common malady in keg dry-hopped beers ... I've been
wondering for some time if it has something to do with the hop volatiles
being trapped in the keg under pressure. I recently dry-hopped an
imperial stout in the keg, but attached an airlock to the gas-in fitting
instead of leaving it under pressure. I got the grassy flavor anyway
after a few days. I've tasted carboy dry-hopped beers that had much less
of the grassy character. I think this could be an interesting thread ...
what say you out there? What types of beers have you dry-hopped using what
methods and what were the results? I rarely dry-hop anymore since I don't
like the flavor addition to the beer. There's nothing worse than pouring
that fresh pale-ale, taking a whiff of that wonderfully fresh cascade aroma,
only to take a sip and be overwhelmed with that green hop flavor. The green
flavor diminishes fairly quickly at warmer temperatures, but so does the hop
aroma. I now prefer to add *truckloads* of finish hops for aroma :)
I'm sure there are some hop varieties that are less prone to grassiness and
some beer styles that can stand up to dry hopping, but most I've tried have
great aroma and disappointing flavor.

Steve, I would suggest transferring your grass beer under CO2 to another keg
to get it off the offending dry hops. Let it sit a couple of weeks and the
grassiness will diminish.

- -Tom Fitzpatrick

Return to table of contents


From: Bill Press <press at lip.wustl.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:54:50 -0500
Subject: Recipe and first wort question

I would like to make a honey ale, high in honey (braggot-ish) and a
balanced (30-35 IBU) amount of bitterness.  Also, I would like to try
first wort hopping, having heard so much about it here.  Here's the
recipe I'd like to try:

	6 lbs American 2-row
	3 lbs orange blossom honey (during steep, to pasturize)
	1 oz Cascade, 5.8% (First wort)
	1 oz Cascade, 5.8% (60 min [duration of boil]; 23 IBU)
	American ale yeast (1056)

So here's the question: will the first wort cascades add bitterness?
How much?  I want the bitterness to be around 30-35 IBUs -- will the
beer be too bitter for this mark?

I've seen alot of discussion about first-wort hopping, lately, but I
haven't seen anything definitive (and believe me, I've looked)
discussing how the FWH affect bitterness, even though they are
typically left in throughout the boil.

If you have any insight that might help, please let me know -- heck,
does anyone out there have a formula for deriving IBUs from first-wort
additions?  Now THAT would be cool!

	Bill

Return to table of contents


From: Gordon Baldwin <gbaldw at usin.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 15:04:50 PDT
Subject: Selling beer

All this talk about selling beer is a VERY bad idea. I know at least the
laws in Washington state are very clear. Selling the glass with the beer
inside being free is not an excuse, and you will get into very big
trouble if you are caught. And if the BATF agent is having a bad day you
could lose your house and any property associated with making the beer.

Home brewed beer is only to be served on or around the premis where it
was brewed with occasional allowances for judging and stuff like that.
It is not even legal to serve home brew at a public function for no
charge. Carrying a 6er down to your friends house is questionable
(though I doubt they would hit you for something like that).

Doing this kind of stuff, even for charity is VERY far outside the law.
If you are on good terms with the local BATF folks you might have no
problem, and no one might care enough to cause a stink. But you are in
less potential legal danger walking down main street smoking a joint.
Choose how loose you want to live, but your excuses about not charging
for the actual beer WILL NOT hold up in court. 

If you are unsure make an anonymous call to the local BATF and ask a few
questions (I did a few years ago). Then if you feel you want to risk it
go ahead.

- --
Gordon Baldwin
gbaldw at usin.com
Olympia Washington
http://www.halcyon.com/gordon

Return to table of contents


From: CHRISTOPHER DIIORIO <pher at acc.msmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 18:05:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: when a beer is a beer

To me, the question concerning when a beer is a beer (as it was mentioned) is
more philosophical than technical.  Some believe that the beer becomes
beer when the wort and yeast mix.  This mingling begins a process that,
when left under optimal conditions, naturally results in beer.  Others
argue that beer is not beer until it has aged, or grown, within the
fermenter.  These folk claim that the flavor of the beer has not developed
properly and, therefore, should not be considered a beer.  The actual time
needed before the beer is beer varies amongst the collective (those who
bother to have an opinon).  Depending on the style of beer, expected final
gravity, temperature of fermenter, length in primary and secondary and many
other factors, a beer can take as little as a week to as much as (dare I
say 9) twelve months to complete its process.

Personally, I'm a naturalist.  Once the process is begun, the beer is
beer.  As it ages, changes and grows it becomes better and better.  Time
does wonderful things to even the "worst" beers (those brewed early in my
brewing days with much less care to detail).  I am not one to judge
whether any particular beer will taste good (and be considered beer) at
any given time.  I sample monthly and consume when ready.  Be that 1 week,
1 month, or 1 year.  My beer is beer from the beginning, as it always
shall be, no matter what you may call it.

I apologize if the tone of this message has drifted toward other topics. 
I did not intend to correlate when the message was begun.  I can not,
however, deny my opinion on the matter.

Sincerely,

Chris DiIorio
pher at acc.msmc.edu



Return to table of contents


From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson at beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:42:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sealing lids on Kegs

Here's a trick to try before resorting to lubricants.
While you are racking into your keg, soak the lid and O-ring in
very hot water. This will get the O-ring flexible. When you are
ready to seal, put it on while it is hot. Quickly put 10-15 psi
pressure in the keg, purge a couple of times, then leave it with the
pressure on it. These kegs need pressure to seal even if you are
using natural carbonation in the keg. Even if the pressure drops
after sealing it, it shouldn't leak. Works for me. Kyle

Return to table of contents


From: Daniel DeBeer <debrew at wnis.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 19:29:16 -0400
Subject: Sierra Nevada PORTER recipe???

Does any one have a recipe for this WONDERFUL Porter??

If so please email it to me,  right now I am an extract brewer so please no
all grain recipies

Thanks

Dan DeBrew


Return to table of contents