---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Big Oops and speed. (shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele))
  Re: Pub Glass problem (Edward J. Steinkamp)
  distilling ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Oxygen (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur))
  Sticky sparge (rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo))
  RE: long ester post (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Big Oops and speed. (Edward J. Steinkamp)
  Raspberry Dilemma (take three...) (Marty Tippin)
  Etymology,Esters,Enzymes,Clinit*st ("David R. Burley")
  Pub Glass problem (paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli))

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:50:53 -0600
Subject: Big Oops and speed.

There's some good news & some bad news:

The good news is that I modified the HBD to deliver faster, which it
looks like it will do now, but it'll be a few days 'til I know for
sure.

The bad news is that I managed to stomp on Monday's HBD and kill
several posts in the process, so those of you that lost your posts,
please try again.

This should be the last major hurdle related to the move, so things
should be a little smoother.  I still need to attack the size vs.
delivery time issue so the HBD is still on an irregular schedule at
this time.

- - shawn
Digest Janitor

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From: Edward J. Steinkamp <ejs0742 at dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 14:07:59 PDT
Subject: Re: Pub Glass problem

>
> HBDers,
> After seeing how fanatical the Germans are to assuring the beer drinker that
> they get a full glass of beer, going so far as having glasses etched with the
> fill line and allowing for a great head to boot,  I can only wonder what the
> hell's wrong with we Americans.
>
> Why can't all the great pubs and breweries in this country adopt this most 
fair
> practice?  It's the exception and not the rule that I get draft micro with a
> decent head. And forget about ever seeing a real pint glass that holds a pint

> of beer _plus_ a great head.
>
> With so much competition between brewpubs and beer bars nowadays, you'd think
> so
> meone would gain a little edge by serving its beer in the right size glass 
with
> a beautiful head. In Germany it's the rule (And I believe the law) and not 
the
> exception.
> Mike in Cherry Hill NJ
>
>

I believe the sad answer to your question lies in the words "it's the law."
I don't know anyone that brings a pint measuring cup into the bar with them,
so it is easy for a bar to reduce beer costs by 10% or so by using mugs
with thick glass, tall bottoms, and steep tapers.

Return to table of contents


From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:18:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: distilling

 aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael) writes:
>	I also posted a "stupid" question regarding distilling beverages a while
>back.  A friend of mine swore adamantly that distilling was _NOT_
>illegal.  However, replies to my posted question said otherwise,
>specifically:
>
>A)	It's illegal
>
>B)	It's dangerous
>
>C)	Don't do it

I can't argue with this advice, but for an alternative view, see Alan Moen's
article in the back cover of the most recent Brewing Techniques.  He makes
some good points.

               - Bryan
                 grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
                 Nashville, TN


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From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 15:24:19 -0400
Subject: Oxygen

I recently pruchased an Oxygenator(tm) from Liquid Bread(tm).  It comes with
a small cylinder of "aircraft-grade" 99.9% pure O2.  The company sells the
replacement O2 cylinders for ~ $12.00.

I was wondering if it was OK to use "welding-grade" O2, which is more
readily obtainable from any hardware store.

Any thoughts???

TIA

TTFN  --<- at 

Russ Brodeur  (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com)
Franklin, MA


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From: rhampo at ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 15:32:53 -0400
Subject: Sticky sparge

Hi all,

Just thought I'd relate sme of the high points of last night's
brewing session.

I made a wheat beer with 2.5 lb american 6-row and 5 lb american
wheat malt.  This time I ground the wheat malt *REALLY* fine
(last time I didn't and got and OG of only 1.030) with a motorized
flour type mill. I mean I really ground it fine (on purpose).
Well, as you are probably expecting, I had a slow sparge. It came out
OK at first and I recirculated about 5 quarts till it cleared. Then
I tried to speed up the sparge a little, but instead it slowed down!
I got tired of waiting, so I did a little trick. My lauter tun is a
5 gallon Gott with a slotted copper manifold. I also have a copper
"up tube" that is usually corked. I use it to flush out the manifold
before starting the sparge.
So what I did was stop the outflow and re-flush out the manifold
using the up tube. This worked great! I recirculated one quart and
the wort ran clear and much faster. I was able to finish the
sparge at my usual 1qt/minute rate.
The fine grind of the wheat malt seemed to pay off, my OG was 1.050
this time, as compared to the 1.030 last time. (same recipe, same
equipment, ...)

So the morals of the story are:
1) If your sparge sticks, try flushing your manifold via whatever means
	you have.
2) Since wheat malt has no real hull, grinding the crap out of it
	can improve your yield.

Happy brewing!

Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing Ltd.

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From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:59:48 -0500
Subject: RE: long ester post

In hbd #2080 Andy Walsh had a table:

>                        8ppm oxygenated wort    4ppm low O2 wort
>total esters (mg/l)     24.2                    34.6
>lipid compounds
>C16:0                   2010                    1540
>C16:1                   1480                    1080
>C18:0                   1500                    1360
>C18:1                   1010                    580
>C18:2                   880                     510
>ergosterol              1250                    350

showing increased levels of lipid compounds with higher oxygenation rates.
Later in the post he said:

>...the unsaturated fatty acids, linoleic (C18:2) and linolenic (C18:3) acids
>cannot be synthesized by yeast and are derived largely from trub(3).

If they cannot be synthesized by the yeast, why are their levels higher in wort
with higher oxygen levels?  What is producing them?

John Wilkinson

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From: Edward J. Steinkamp <ejs0742 at dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 13:00:21 PDT
Subject: Re: Big Oops and speed.

>
> There's some good news & some bad news:
>
> The good news is that I modified the HBD to deliver faster, which it
> looks like it will do now, but it'll be a few days 'til I know for
> sure.
>
> The bad news is that I managed to stomp on Monday's HBD and kill
> several posts in the process, so those of you that lost your posts,
> please try again.
>
> This should be the last major hurdle related to the move, so things
> should be a little smoother.  I still need to attack the size vs.
> delivery time issue so the HBD is still on an irregular schedule at
> this time.
>
> (P.S. If one of you who receives the undigested feed still has the
> missing posts, please forward them to the digest.  Thanks, shawn)
>
> - shawn
> Digest Janitor
>

Shawn,

I am new to HBD so I apologize if I am not doing thinks correctly here.
I signed up for the undigested feed, but the e-mail volume is a bit too
intense for me.  How do I resign from the undigested feed, and stick with
the regular version of HBD?

Thanks,

Ed Steinkamp

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From: Marty Tippin <martyt at sky.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 15:49:42 -0500
Subject: Raspberry Dilemma (take three...)

I think this was one of the posts that got lost in the mail twice now...
Sorry if it's a repeat, but I haven't seen an issue of HBD since last
Saturday...

I just bottled my batch of Raspberry Wheat (you'll recall I was asking how
to use raspberries a month or so ago...) and noticed something quite strange:

The FG was 1.001 !!! That's down from 1.049 OG and 1.007 at the time I added
the 5 lbs of raspberries.  The berries were "frozen in sugar" according to
the label; I warmed them to room temperature and mashed with a potato masher
before adding to the fermenter and racking the beer onto them.  Took about 4
days for fermentation to pick up, and I waited a full two weeks before 
bottling.

The beer didn't taste horrible but had a definite alcohol bite - tasted kind
of like Formula 44 cough syrup.  The raspberry flavor was there but not
overpowering; likewise the aroma.  I'm hoping it'll carbonate nicely and
develop a good flavor... But I'm also thinking I'll have an alcohol content
of 8 to 10% based on the gravity drop.

Should I have expected this drop in gravity or did something go haywire?
I'm beginning to think I've got a raspberry mead rather than beer... This
was part of a 10 gallon batch of wheat; I've still got the other 5 gallons
in the fermenter waiting for kegging so I'll check the gravity of it to see
if it's still around 1.007 where I expected.

Any comments would be appreciated!

- -Marty
 martyt at sky.net
 http://www.sky.net/~martyt
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Tippin          | Tippin's Law #24:  Never underestimate the
martyt at sky.net        | power of human stupidity.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my 2-Tier Converted Keg Brewing System Design Plans
and other homebrew gadgets at http://www.sky.net/~martyt
- --------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 25 Jun 96 16:45:54 EDT
Subject: Etymology,Esters,Enzymes,Clinit*st

Brewsters:

Andy "Wohlgemuth" Walsh writes that he believes Brewster is the feminine form 
of
brewer.

According to The Oxford Dictionary of Etymology:

"BREWSTER - brewer - survives in Brewster Sessions licensing sessions and as a
surname, also Browster.

In those days when the word brewster was in common use, the female brewer was
called a housewife. Now the word is asexual.So by using brewster I was 
referring
to both sexes.

What can we expect from a man who grows up in a country which uses the phrase
"Sheila in the gutter" to remember which side of the road to drive on. {;-)

Andy - Despite your failure as an etymologist, you did an excellent job at
teasing out the ester/oxygen controversy.  Thanks

Jim Busch and I still agree on the basic framework of enzyme kinetics,but we 
are
having trouble recognizing that fact. Jim points out that some recipes call for

10-15 minutes saccharification time as proof that my suggestion to extend this
time to get better conversion was out of line.  Of course, this exactly proves
my point.  If someone is having trouble with high FG and it is not due to stuck
fermentation then the amylase is not completing the conversion. My point is at
high temperatures ( e.g. 158F) the beta amylase is crippled by two factors -
denaturization and slower rate of reaction at a given concentration.  The
classic method as Jim suggests is to lower the saccharification temperature and
get a more complete conversion of the starch to femantable sugar, since the 
beta
amylase will have a slower loss due to denaturation and wil be at a higher rate
at this lower temperature. I suggested an alternative and that was to extend 
the
saccharification time
 ( knowing that some people use S times as short as ten or fifteen minutes - as
Jim comments). This time is definitely adequate to chew up the colloidal starch

from any adjuncts and perhaps give a negative starch test, but depending on the
type of malt being used, the yield will suffer more or less. I thought that an
easy way to decrease the FG to some extent without any other major changes,
while increasing the yield would be to extend the saccharification time. I was
assuming that the writer was using a short S time.

I was also using this as a forum to question the on-off mentality on enzyme
kinetics I  see here and in most HB books.  There is nothing magic about the
range 144-158F except this is the range found in Malting and Brewing science - 
a
British book about using well modified British malts that have the enzyme 
system
crippled to some extent. Enzyme reactions happen at other temperatures higher
and lower than this, given the caveats of temperature dependence of rates of
reaction, substrate availability and denaturization temperature range. I can't
help but feel that we may be ignoring some variables in producing unique beers
but toeing the line on these temperature ranges. I would also like to see some
discussion on how we can tell something about the progress of the various steps
in the brewing process by testing as we go along.  Any info on this?
- -----------------------------------------------

One of the no-no words on the HBD auto-reader is t*st where *=e.  So a lot of
info etc. on Clinit*st has been bounced back.  I'm trying to get it to the HBD
around the reader.  I am a day behind on getting my  HBD ( I didn't even get
Sunday's did you?), so I can't tell if Shawn has published them for me or not.
If not, I will publish them later this week.


Keep on brewin'

Dave Burley


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From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 16:45:54 edt
Subject: Pub Glass problem

HBDers,
After seeing how fanatical the Germans are to assuring the beer drinker that
they get a full glass of beer, going so far as having glasses etched with the
fill line and allowing for a great head to boot,  I can only wonder what the
hell's wrong with we Americans.

Why can't all the great pubs and breweries in this country adopt this most fair
practice?  It's the exception and not the rule that I get draft micro with a
decent head.   And forget about ever seeing a real pint glass that holds a pint
of beer _plus_ a great head.

With so much competition between brewpubs and beer bars nowadays, you'd think 
so
meone would gain a little edge by serving its beer in the right size glass with
a beautiful head.  In Germany it's the rule (And I believe the law) and not the
exception.
Mike in Cherry Hill NJ


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