Homebrew Digest Thursday, 11 July 1996 Number 2103
![[Prev HBD]](/img/previous.gif)
![[Index]](/img/index_button.gif)
![[Next HBD]](/img/next.gif)
![[Back]](/img/up_level_button.gif)
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
RIMS PUMP (WOLFF%eclus.DNET at tron.bwi.wec.com)
Heart o' the H (uszvnr96 at ibmmail.com)
insulating a carboy (Val Martinez)
Color ("DAVID T. PETERS GERMANY(UTC +02:00)")
plastic carboys (joe-sysop at cyberbury.net)
Poor Man's *REAL* CounterPressure Bottle Filler GIF & More (KennyEddy at aol.com)
"Advanced" Brewing Systems (Michael Caprara)
Great British Beer Festival... ("Dr. Gillian Grafton")
metabisulfites (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Air Tap / HBD format / AlvDave / Wyeast 2112 / Pumps (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
MORE Saccharification temp. - Sigh! ("David R. Burley")
HBD: More thoughts ("Fotovich, Paddy")
Soapy Beer Problem ("Fotovich, Paddy")
New Atlanta Brewpub (k6eid at avana.net)
Re: HBD/Copper Brewpots/Roller Mill Rollers (hollen at vigra.com)
My Brew details Par1 ("David R. Burley")
My Brew details - Part 2 ("David R. Burley")
Early hops... Normal? When to pick... (bveq97 at puffs3-11.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon))
RE: Too much HBD? (Dave Broughton - PICCO)
Digest Volume Problems. (Russell Mast)
Brew in a Lung (TM) et al ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
For SUBMISSIONS to be published, send mail to:
homebrew at aob.org
For (UN)SUBSCRIBE requests, send mail to:
homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org
and include only subscribe or unsubscribe in the body of the message.
Please note that if subscribed via BEER-L, you must unsubscribe by sending
a one line e-mail to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L
If your address is changing, please unsubscribe from the old address and
then subscribe from the new address.
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
For technical problems send e-mail to the Digest Janitor, shawn at aob.org.
OTHER HOMEBREW INFORMATION
http://www.aob.org/aob - The AHA's web site.
http://alpha.rollanet.org - "The Brewery" and the Cat's Meow Archives.
info at aob.org - automated e-mail homebrewing information.
ARCHIVES:
At ftp.stanford.edu in /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer via anonymous ftp. Also
http://alpha.rollanet.org on the web and at majordomo at aob.org by e-mail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: WOLFF%eclus.DNET at tron.bwi.wec.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 8:35:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RIMS PUMP
If you are interested in a RIMS pump that is food grade, 240 degf and
1/50 hp made of polysulfone and perfect for what we as homebrewers need,
and it is a Mag drive- I have gone through great lengths to find this
item and as soon as the supplier gets final approval to supply it
for home brewing useage - I will post again with the phone number and
type of pump. The price range is in the $100 range, I quite sure, and
the pump is currently contracted to a single source. I'm still waiting
for the price. I do not stand to gain in any way other than being
able to get the pump I need and one that RIMS homebrewers need.
This pump is from a top of the line supplier.
Stay tuned.
wolff at eclus.bwi.wec.com
"Helping humanity through homebrewing".
Return to table of contents
From: uszvnr96 at ibmmail.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:48:43 EDT
Subject: Heart o' the H
Hi all. Thought to de-cloak out of lurking mode. That
submission by BR Rolya on Miller's response got me thinking.
I apologize for wasting any bandwidth, but it brings up a
few questions:
1. Isn't the bittering quality of hops what a brewer tries
to get into the beer? I would think that you could
strike a balance that would give a "smooth, drinkable taste"?
2. Do they have to use four times as many hops as other
mainstream beers precisely because they "remove the
bitter quality from hops while maintaining their
complex flavor attributes"? It would seem if that
was the case that the process is self-defeating and not
very cost effective.
Dropping the cynicism, I haven't checked the Cat's Meow etc.,
but I was curious if anyone had an extract recipe to make a
Sierra Nevada porter clone? Please respond by private e-mail.
Thanks in advance.
With Swift and Voltaire whispering in my ear,
Bill Bigge
uszvnr96 at ibmmail.com
Return to table of contents
From: Val Martinez <valhhm at trib.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 06:50:00 -0600
Subject: insulating a carboy
just a quick question. i am thinking about making a quilted sleeve/jacket
for my carboy to help keep the temperature more even. what do any or all of
you think?
Return to table of contents
From: "DAVID T. PETERS GERMANY(UTC +02:00)" <d_peters at e-mail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:50:40 EDT
Subject: Color
I am planning to brew an IPA. Have looked at a couple of recipes which ask for
toasted malt. I am going to modify the recipes to suit my taste preferences &
am putting them in Suds40. The only problem is that I do not know the color
contribution of the toasted malt. I plan to bake the pale malt 10 minutes at
350 degrees F as suggested in the Zymurgy Grain issue.
Please forward color information as well as experiences with this toasting
method.
TIA
REGARDS, DAVID T. PETERS E-MAIL: D_PETERS at E-MAIL.COM
CW170 NA BODY CONSTRUCTION LEADER, VEHICLE OPERATIONS
FORD OF GERMANY, MERKENICH MAIL LOCATION: D-ME/MF-21
PHONE: 9-1-70-37791 FAX: 9-1-70-31635
Return to table of contents
From: joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 96 13:02:38 GMT
Subject: plastic carboys
>Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 15:19:28 +0200
>Has anyone tried using the plastic water bottle jugs (the ones used
>in office dispensers) for fermentation? They are the same shape
>and have a 5 gal. volume the same as normal glass carboys. However,
I've used a plastic 5-gal carboy for over a year, now. I've had
no problems at all. I'd recommend it to anyone short on cash
(like me). I've brewed all manner of ales, and I've used it as
both a primary and secondary. The only drawback I can think of is
that there may be some concern over sanitizing it as it gets
older, but that hasn't come up, yet.
Just get a stopper to fit, an airlock, and you're in business.
Joe Labeck joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
House-husband, Dad, Writer, Homebrewer
The only thing worse than hearing the alarm clock is not...
`[1;34;44mNet-Tamer V 1.04 - Registered
Return to table of contents
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:05:56 -0400
Subject: Poor Man's *REAL* CounterPressure Bottle Filler GIF & More
I've posted on my web page a GIF sketch of the PMCPBF I described in the HBD
last week. It's basically the stopper-n-tube-on-the-beer-tap concept but
I've added a means to pressurize the bottle for true counterpressure action.
I've used this rig a few times now and it's the first CP bottler I've used
that only requires two hands. If you had trouble visualizing it with my
verbal description of the thing, the GIF should clear it up.
Also new on the page is a copy of a compilation of potentially-useful
calculations for grain & mashing situations. At the time it was written I
was still developing my Plastic Electric Brewery so there's also some stuff
on electric heating elements.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
"Space is almost infinite. In fact, we think it *is* infinite." -- VP Dan
Quayle as head of Space Council
Return to table of contents
From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara at awwarf.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:10:57 -0600
Subject: "Advanced" Brewing Systems
From: Stephen_Buonocore at usccmail.lehman.com (Stephen Buonocore)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 15:07:40 -0400
Subject: Advanced Homebrew Systems Inquiry
Can anyone out there share any experiences (first or second hand,
positive or negative) with me on any of the "advanced brewing
systems"
Stephen,
I am in the process of designing a gravity rack system. I acquired 3 kegs
(boiling kettle, mash tun, water back), the mash tun has a SS screen in
the bottom and a thermometer, the water back has a thermometer and
sight glass. I ordered plans and a video from Modesto Homebrew for a 2
tier rack system. Right now I put the kettle on the burner on the deck, the
mash tun on a chair, and the water back on the roof (it is a pain in the ...
to get HOT water up there!)
What I am finding is: the brew kettle should have at least a 1/2 inch ball
valve AND 1/2 inch down tubing. My kettle was purchased and the
down tube is threaded 1/2" SS pipe. It is very easy to unscrew for
thorough cleanings. An outside thermometer is handy for mash and
water back. You don't have to keep opening the lid to check temp. The
sight glass is handy for the water back because it is so high (on the
roof!)
I hope this helps.
Brewfully Deadicated
MC :{P} <----Hop Head
Return to table of contents
From: "Dr. Gillian Grafton" <GRAFTONG at novell2.bham.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:09:32 +0000
Subject: Great British Beer Festival...
Hi to all those homebrewers visiting the Great British Beer Festival
in London in August. The Craft Brewing Association (the UK
homebrewer's association) will be staging a presence at the GBBF for
the first time and would like to welcome visits from all homebrewers.
We will be sharing a stand with the Ale Shoppe, and we'll be handing
out free samples of beers made by our members.
Please come and visit.
Gillian Grafton
Membership Secretary, The Craft Brewing Association
Email: graftong at novell2.bham.ac.uk
WWW: http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/graftong/
CBA: http://www.breworld.com/cba/
//=\ Dr. Gillian Grafton
\=// Department of Immunology
//=\ University of Birmingham
\=// Birmingham B15 2TT, UK
//=\ Email: GraftonG at novell2.bham.ac.uk
\=// www: http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/graftong/
Return to table of contents
From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 96 09:18:57 CDT
Subject: metabisulfites
I wrote:
>[Metabisulfites] work by releasing hydrogen sulfide
>gas when in an acid solution which INHIBITS the growth (but does not
>kill) yeast and many bacteria.
Rick Wood corrected me privately that it's sulfur dioxide and not
hydrogen sulfide that is made. Further proof that I'm no chemist.
Nonetheless, I've made this mistake before so now I've written it
on a post-it-note next to my terminal and promise to not make *this*
error again.
Let me ask this of the chemists, then: Faintly I recall that sulfur
dioxide in water makes sulfuric acid. Is this right? Is sulfuric
acid very unstable? My understanding of the action of metabisulfites
is that they produce this sulfur-compound gas (HA!) in an acidic solution
which inhibits yeast and bacterial growth. 24 hours later, all the gas
has fizzled out and the wine must can be pitched with cultured yeast.
Pitching yeast immediately after adding the metabisulfites will inhibit
the cultured yeast too. So, have I been wrong about the SO4 creating
H2SO4 in contact with water or is H2SO4 really that unstable that it is
no longer an inhibitor.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
Return to table of contents
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:27:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Air Tap / HBD format / AlvDave / Wyeast 2112 / Pumps
Question:
Anyone out there use the air pump for ball-lock kegs
sold by William's? For short-term serving ala a party,
especially one "on the road", it seemed perfect.
I have one and will try it out this wknd...critique
to follow. If you've used this, any comments for me?
Yes, beer is carbonated in the keg before using this
tap, and yes, the beer must be consumed in 1-2 days.
Comment:
The HBD was more manageable when its size was limited
to 45K. This was the only thing many of us knew.
Yes, posts could be delayed 3 days...frustrating.
Yes, this also helped dissuade frequent postings.
It worked because, from any post one made, a list
of the previous posts to that Digest along with
a cancellation number was returned to the poster.
If what you posted about was covered in the list
of prior posts, you could use the cancellation number
to eliminate your repetitive post. Never publishes.
Comment:
I sided with Al early on in the mash temp/time/
fermentability issue. I still mostly agree with Al
on the near futility of extended mash times at the high end
of the saccharification temp range. But really, the
thing that concerned me was the confusion to the new
all-grain brewer/ster. While we're all tired of this,
most of us have sharpened our understanding of the
enzymatic processes involved in starch conversion.
This is a Good Thing (TM). Thanks to Dave and Al both.
Now put down your hydrometers and play nice;-)
Comment:
Regarding the Wyeast "California Common" yeast (2112),
info on the Digest last year showed the highest temp
*most brewers* were able to get clean lager-like flavors
with was 62F. Cooler ie 55F was perceived as better.
Having used this yeast at 65-68F, I found a clean ale
flavor the result...light fruitiness, not overpowered
with sulfides, not particularly remarkable.
Comment:
Regarding RIMS systems and pumps in particular, I too
use a March MDX series pump. However mine is the
lower powered MDXT (1/50th HP) instead of John's
MDX-3 (1/25th HP). I'm happy with the pump, which
I use for general needs, not for a RIMS. But, I
would recommend the higher power version owing to
the greater flexibility of 2x head capacity and the
added cost of only a couple of bucks. Both are
indeed FDA-approved for food applications.
Dave in Indy
Return to table of contents
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Jul 96 10:30:10 EDT
Subject: MORE Saccharification temp. - Sigh!
DIa!?ayyyyyRyyyyyyyyyyND into the system, but apparently I was. The concept
that seems to be missing from all this discussion by at least some people is
that the reason we get different compositions at different temperatures is
BECAUSE the beta amylase is unstable and unstable in the same temperature range
we are operating. This implies to me that it must have a significantly finite
lifetime throughout the entire saccharification temperature range. It is not
the temperature that is magic, it is the time/temperature relationship. Holding
the saccharification step long enough to effectively eliminate all of the beta
amylase from the wort produces the most fermentable wort and the highest
efficiency extraction (FOR THIS TEMPERATURE), assuming the alpha amylase is
still around and lots of other things, at this temperature. Holding it for a
shorter time, so that there is still beta amylase around and then wiping it out
by raising the temperature to 168F in a mash-out step, can in some
circumstances produce a wort with a higher FG and result in lower extraction
and an inconsistent result from batch to batch just from minor time/
temperature variations, pH and Calcium variations, etc. Think about it. As
Tracy Aquila said if you hold the wort at temperature T for only a very short
time ( say a second) will that give the desired wort? Of course not. There is a
very good reason the commerecial brewers use times in the hour and a half to
three hour range for the saccharification step. It is called kinetics. I submit
that all of the data on what temperature produces what ratio of fermentables to
unfermentables are based on mashes that were taken to completion,i.e. held
until all of the beta amylase was gone. It takes more than a few minutes to get
to completion.
In an earlier post I quoted a reference from M&BS that said that in the*wort*
beta amylase had a lifetime of 45 min to an hour, at 150F if I recall
correctly. Not the 15 minutes, some would have us to believe. I gave an example
from Eric Warner's wheat beer book in which a saccharification temperature of
158-162F was used and this was a decoction mash in which the beta Amylase
should be lower than in an infusion mash, generally since part of the mash has
been boiled..This M&BS statement is a bare reference with no statement of the
conditions, pH, Ca+ conc.,mash thickness, etc. no comment on malt type ( could
it be British low enzyme pale malt? would it be a longer time to the point of
"no beta" in a less modified malts like American 6-row?, etc.), was it the beta
conc in solution or in the malt grain? If you have *documented* data on this
subject of the lifetime of beta amylase in a MASH, let's see it. Normal rule of
thumb kinetics would suggest that at 158, the rate of disappaerance of beta
amylase would be on the order of twice of what it is at 150 ( i.e. 22 to 30 min
in the above example). Of course, we all have to question what is meant by
disappearance, does it mean 90% of original? or what ?. I have never heard that
denaturization of beta amylase had an abnormal temperature dependence as
suggested by one respondent. Let's see the documented data.
We all have to quit discussing this in the absence of new data, I know I am.
Personally, I think we all agree on everything, as I said in a number of
earlier posts. We are just arguing our impressions ( how black IS black?)
without data to back it up and we will never get anywhere except to p*ss each
other off. I defiitely do not want to do that. I just want to have some fun
learning, discussing and refining ideas with my brew buddies (AlK that does
include you as well as everyone here), OK?
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Return to table of contents
From: "Fotovich, Paddy" <pfotovic at ingr.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:39:55 -0500
Subject: HBD: More thoughts
Hi y'all,
One approach used by high traffic list servers is to use topics in the
subject. A message will not be posted to the collective without a valid
topic in the subject. (Shawn is this possible with HBD?)
Also, others have posted about this, reduce the quote content. There is
generally no need to quote the ENTIRE message to make a point. I don't
mind long in-depth discussion. I do mind rereading the same post
several times. Just quote what you need.
Paddy Fotovich
pfotovic at ingr.com
(205) 730-3127
Second place is the first loser.
Return to table of contents
From: "Fotovich, Paddy" <pfotovic at ingr.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:46:49 -0500
Subject: Soapy Beer Problem
Hi y'all,
As the subject suggests, I have a problem. My last several batches of
an IPA have tasted soapy. Can this be attributed to over bitter beer.
(Maybe I should use The Heart Of The Hops(tm)!) The IPAs have been
targeted for 40-50 IBUs. Could the hops be bad? I don't think
sanitation is a problem. I pretty anal about cleaning everything. I'm
an all-grainner. Could the mashing schedule be a problem?
Paddy Fotovich
pfotovic at ingr.com
(205) 730-3127
Second place is the first loser.
Return to table of contents
From: k6eid at avana.net
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 96 10:44:34 PDT
Subject: New Atlanta Brewpub
The Cherokee Brewing Company Brewery/Restaurant is having its grand opening on
20 July. It is located at 3227 Roswell Rd. just north of West Paces Ferry.
Phil Finkle, Marietta, GA
- -------------------------------------
E-mail: k6eid at avana.net
Date: 07/11/96
Time: 10:44:34
This message was sent by Chameleon
- -------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
From: hollen at vigra.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 96 08:03:16 PDT
Subject: Re: HBD/Copper Brewpots/Roller Mill Rollers
>>>>> "Dave" == "Dave Hinkle" <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com> writes:
Dave> the same stuff re-quoted ad nauseam from one HBD to the next.
Dave> How the hell is anyone supposed to follow it?!! Let me just say
Dave> people like Jeff (Hewit and Renner) et al. hit the nail on the
Dave> head when they said "keep it short".
But please don't keep it short while sacrificing context. With a
little bit of editing on the poster's part of the quoted material,
down to the minimum of the quote that will give a valid context, then
the reader can understand what the reply is to and a lot of bandwidth
will have been saved. If each of us takes a little more time to edit
the context down, we will all benefit.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Jul 96 11:17:15 EDT
Subject: My Brew details Par1
DIa!?ayyyyyRyyyyyyyyyyND above sealevelt'N Physical Chemistry from UCal
(as well as an M.B.A. from Rider), have designed and built my own
instrumentation ( I'm also an advanced class ham radio operator, KC2LZ, if
that's important to you) , done lots of lab work and calibrations with lots of
instrumentation and instruments, including thermometers! Last year I won two
golds and a bronze (American Wine Society, National Awards, only one
gold,silver, bronze for each type) for my Pinot Noir, Petit Sirah and Cabernet
Sauvignon, respectively. These are among the most prestigious and most fought
for awards. I've never entered a beer competition, yet, largely because I'm new
to the AHA scene (not brewing). Being a photochemist and spectroscopist by
training, I know a lot about complex kinetics and am frustrated by this medium
to explain what I mean. Obviously I am doing a lousy job explaining myself!
I hate to use the bandwidth, but I can't stand not answering Steve Alexander's
question in the same place he asked it.
By the way, I did have a witness, which is rare, for the brew in question. If
you question any of these results or comments and don't trust my answers, call
up my son, Dan at Ucal in Berkeley, California. He was home for a week's visit
and I brewed this at his request. In fact, he kept the notes, since I was
teaching him his old man's methods and wanted him to get it into his head about
how important notes are... I have been brewing beer since March 31,1969. I
started at 9:45 A.M. PST
Now with all the credentials out of the way, on to what is really important -
the brew in question.
Grist :
10# 6-row American Malt (50# bag originally, L.D. Carlson, over a year old ,but
stored in a cool room 65-70 F in a closed container)
12 oz Pearl barley (America's Choice, plastic 1 # bag from A&P)
Milling:
I used a "MARGA mulino adjustable three roll SS mill ( with knurled roller
surfaces) from Italy, bolted to a piece of composite board with a hole in it,
over a dishpan, plastic sheeting guided the ground grain into the hole in the
board. The mill hooked up to my power drill via a coupling I made from a bolt.
Only two rolls were used. The setting was clockwise from the "2" position about
1/4 inch past the first notch for the malt and on the first notch clockwise
from the "2" mark for the barley. I use duct tape to hold the dial in place if
there is no notch. This adjustment intentionally produced malt grains which
were cracked so that when rubbing them between thumb and finger, they easily
broke apart into anywhere from 3 to 6 pieces. Very little flour. The husks were
by-in-large whole. The barley ( really tough!) was chopped into about three
pieces per grain using the above setting.
As an aside. A correspondent in Wednesday's HBD commented on the tremendous
increase in his extraction efficiency when his hb supplier switched from a
Corona to a Maltmill, I believe. It can make a difference.
Cooking:
Milled Barley was cooked in 3 quarts (notes said 6 quarts, since I may have
told him that, but I think it was six pints) of tap water for 30 min and
allowed to stand covered for 1 hour. ( water from my well - pH = 6.8,hardness =
92 mg/l,alkalinity = 80 mg/l,chloride = 53.5 mg/l sulfate = 32.5 mg/l and total
dissolved solids = 269 mg/l need more info, I have it) I used tap water here
instead of distilled water (vide infra) so that I would have a (low) source of
calcium and low sulfate in the mash. Boiling this in the course of the cooking
should get rid of some of the bi-carbonates..
Mash preparation:
4 gallons of Lectrostill (R) distilled water was used as boiling water, as
needed during mashing, to adjust the mash to the various hold temperatures.
This allows an almost instantaneous change in temperatures in brewing terms.
Thus, we didn't spend any time at the lower temperatures in the
saccharification range. This method also allows me to go from a very thick mash
(103/4 # grain to about 15# -20# of water) in the protein rest regions to a
thin mash (103/4 # grain in about 30# of water) at saccharification rest region
to maximize the enzyme acti, but didn't correct for this nor did I correct for
barometric pressure that day and 32F , crushed ice slurry. I used tap water for
ice, but didn't correct for freezing point depression due to the mineral or gas
content) dial type Taylor thermometer It was spot on on both ends. It was also
checked with a very accurate alcohol thermometer ( I think it was the oral
version) up to about 100F, and another dial type thermometer in a higher range.
It was amazingly linear.( My congrats to a made in America product but
assembled in Mexico as I remember.) After the boiling water was added, the
temperature (usually only a very few degrees from the desired value) was
adjusted with heat and stirring. In each case after the temperature adjustment,
the 5 gal Aluminum pot was covered and placed in an insulated box built of 1"
thick blue ( not plaid) polystyrene foam box with lid built to exactly fit the
kettle. Looking at the temperatures recorded, I guess this represents the range
before and after the rest period, it seems about right, but I don't know since
my son recorded these. He always stirred before recording a temperature.
END OF PART 1
w I have people questioning my technique! Steve Alexander asks for details on
my procedure and the brew I prepared.
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Return to table of contents
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Jul 96 11:17:33 EDT
Subject: My Brew details - Part 2
DIa!?ayyyyyRyyyyyyyyyyNDpe)
12:07 PM added 2 qts boiling water Temp 111 - 112 pH = 5.7
12:44 PM added 2 quarts of Boiling water. T= 120-122
Began immediately to heat to 135F
12:56 Reached 135F
14:00 158F added 3qts(?) - 1 gal boiling water (note this exactly records his
notes - he wasn't sure)
15:30 Removed from box T =157F
15:55 168F hold 5 min.
16:10 Began sparging Sparge water pH adjusted with lactic acid to 5.7, exit
temp of sparge was typically 165F , since I use 175-180F water on top
17:25 Finish sparging, begin boil, in 2 -4 gal SS pots ( no notes here but
about 6.5 gallons of wort, since I had freeboard in the kettles)
17:50 2 oz Saaz hops pellets after first boil up and break in froth
18:35 1 oz Saaz hops pellets
18:50 1/2 oz Saaz hops pellets, 1/2 tsp Irish moss
19:00 Began transfer to an open 6 gal FV via a CCcooler
Diluted to 5.5 gallons with cooled ( via the CC cooler), boiled tap water
T= 71 F SG = 1.058 corr to SG = 1.060 at 60F
Pitched Wyeast Czech Pils liquid yeast from a two qt. starter and fermented at
65F. I know, I know ,but I LIKE the full, fruity beers of my youth. Racked to
an airlocked 5 gal carboy 6 days later and bottled at 16 days at FG =1.015 and
sugar content by Clinitest at 1/4%. A little rushed,perhaps I should have let
it sit for another few days, but I had other things to do and wanted to get it
in the bottles and 5 liter cans.
Steve, I hope this provides all the answers to your questions. What was your
question exactly?
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Just so everyone understands, I don't do this for a living. Like most of you
HBDers, I don't make a nickel out of this ( in fact, I spend money and time). I
participate here like most of you to feel good when I learn something and when
I can help someone out of a problem and to be around people ( even if it is
cyberspace) in pursuit of a hobby we all like every much. It's called fun. I
enjoy laughing at all the humor on display here and try in my humble way to
participate in that aspect as well as be serious ( but hopefully not too A/R)
about this hobby.
Hopefully, this open forum will continue to sharpen our understanding of the
many facets of this complex hobby ( that's why we enjoy it). I am constantly
amazed and pleased by the variety of backgrounds and the resources you all draw
upon. I learn or relearn something new every day Remember we are all on the
same team! Even though it may not sound like it, we all agree on at least 90%
of this stuff, as I have been saying from the beginning. I fear that some of
you will misunderstand the intensity of the discussions we have been having on
this rather insignificant subject of the extension of saccharification time,
but as one correspondent commented he has learned something from all this. I'm
glad and I sincerely hope others have as well. Let's go make better beer
instead of fussing over something like this. OK?
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Return to table of contents
From: bveq97 at puffs3-11.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:36:20 -0400
Subject: Early hops... Normal? When to pick...
Haven't been here in a while so bear with me!!
My hops due to the cool weather in our area are producing cones
early, like now. Is this considered normal?? I have about
50-60 large cones on the main vine. The secondary vines are
starting to spur now and will soon also be producing cones.
Next, how do I tell when they are ready? It has been 2 years
since I have gotten anything from my vine. J. Beetles killed
last year's crop. The year before only a handful and I over
dried them. So, when are they ready??
Thanks
Mark Witherspoon
witherspoonm at pgate he.boeing.com.
Please e-mail me, I am not really sure that my subscription will
come thru...
"Re-engineering is like performing an apendectomy on yourself. Your chances of
survival are slim and it really hurts, but you gain the confidence to go after
something bigger next time ... like that red pumping thing." - Scott Adams
- ------------------------------
Return to table of contents
From: Dave Broughton - PICCO <dave at picco.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 96 08:52:11 PDT
Subject: RE: Too much HBD?
I don't see anything wrong with the current HBD. With a good news reader it's
easy to only read what interests you and to skip over the petty bickering of
the digests windbags. I'm getting tired of people who seem to enjoy telling us
what experts they are and belittling anyone who disagrees with their opinions
(and I stress the word opinion here).
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Broughton (206)927-6910 x30 |
| Puyallup Integrated Circuit Company (206)927-6673 Fax |
| 33838 Pacific Hwy S., Suite 211 dave at picco.com |
| Federal Way, WA 98003 http://www.picco.com |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:18:23 -0500
Subject: Digest Volume Problems.
IMO, the bandwidth problem stems from a number of factors, paramount among
those the attempt to mix a digestified and undigistified mailing list.
Maybe this has successfully been done elsewhere, but I've never witnessed
such a thing.
In the old, all-digested version, we had the opportunity to cancel a post,
which many of us used extensively, and this helped a lot. We also all were
given the posters e-mail address (which is not done with the undigested
version?!?!), and that allowed much more private e-mail responses. And,
frankly, the once-daily bottleneck really helped reduce postings. However,
I doubt that it will keep the volume from undigested posters down.
On a totally undigested mailling list, several of which I've been on in the
past, bandwidth is kept in check in part by the immediacy of it. If someone
posts an easy question ("Why is my distilled water not pH 7.0 ?"), and it's
answered immediately and correctly, everyone has the opportunity to read the
response before posting their own, redundant response. (Granted, this doesn't
eliminate boneheaded redundancies from people who delight upon seeing their
names in print, but it reduces the total number.)
Essentially, the natural things which developed to reduce bandwidth for
digested mailing lists are ineffective on those who get the undigestified
version, and vice versa. As I see it, we must find new ways to reduce
bandwidth, or convert the digest back to a digest, or to an undigested list.
How can we reduce bandwidth? I don't think bottlenecking (reducing the
digested version to 50K per day for digested subscribers) will work at
all unless we somehow impose a similar restriction on undigested subscribers,
and seems pretty draconian either way. I -definately- think the post-cancel
function should be reintroduced. If you post something and cancel it, it
will still show up in the undigested version, but you can keep the digests
themselves smaller. Also, introducing a short (15 minute?) delay into the
undigested version might allow a sensible cancel function to affect the
undigested version. And, yeah, it's vital that the original posters' e-mail
address appear in the undigested version. (This might be dependant on what
mailreader you're using, but a work-around can be developed which appends the
address in a way that it will get through anywhere.)
And, above all, we have to be even more vigilant about our bandwidth use.
If a relatively straightforward question is asked, make damned sure that
it's not already answered 20 times before posting. (This includes "me, too"
responses to complaints about bandwidth, eh?) If you have a simple question,
or a question that you know can result in massive bandwidth use, request that
all responses be sent via private e-mail and post a summary. Until the
bandwidth cools a bit, stop with the forwarded jokes. Original jokes are
fine (with me), if we can keep them short (and funny, dang it).
And, PLEASE crush your own ego before posting, PLEASE. The huge babble-war
between Al K (Hall) and his personal fan club primarily arose because of
miscommunication and the inability to LET IT GO. If you can't just let it
go (and I'm not just harping on Al here), then KEEP IT SHORT - send novellas
to one another in private e-mail, but keep me out of it. No one here is
going to lose respect for you if your stuff is misrepresented occasionally
(we probably won't even notice), but they will if you get all huffy about it.
Ego problems are also the main cause of the redundant postings. You, glorious
you, have a better way of saying something, and you simply MUST share it with
all the little people. (What that says about this lengthy whine, I leave as
an exersize for the reader.)
Finally, until Shawn gets the undigested version displaying all e-mail
addresses to everyone all the time, let's try to include our addresses
in the text of our posts. And, when people DO waste bandwidth, LET THEM
KNOW - in private e-mail, and try to be polite about it. Many are relatively
knew people who skim and don't know there's a problem. All of us, every one
(well, with two exceptions, but I'm not going to name names) are decent,
kind people. Sometimes we screw up, but if you attack us for it with
vitriol, we're less likely to correct our behavior than if you simply
remind us "Hey, take it easy on the bandwidth" or something like that.
(I will admit to not always following my own advice, but that doesn't
invalidate it, it just makes me a part-time hypocrite.) But - DO reach out
to each other (and me?) and offer constructive criticism. As the head of
the HBD Fascist Thought Police (I forget who dubbed me with that title, but
some people are pretty touchy, eh?), I nominate you all Deputize all of you
as Dep'ty Thought Patrol members, and empower you to nag one another at will.
We can all lick this problem, if we work together, as a team. And remember
it's all for the sake of good beer.
- -Russell Mast, Thought Patrol Sherrif, Part-Time Hypocrite
rmast at fnbc.com. This post copyright 1996 Sultan Hamengku Buono X
Return to table of contents
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at HOOD-EMH3.ARMY.MIL>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:19:00 -0500
Subject: Brew in a Lung (TM) et al
Dear Collective Intelligence of the HBD,
Still thinking of the beer in spaaaaace thread
the other day and kicked some ideas around with my
friends. If you liked my brew in a lung (tm) idea, you
will love these:
1. Who needs to vent the CO2 anyway. We can
build a pressure vessel that will contain pressure
of fermentation. Considering the relative non-
compressibility of liquids, the yeast won't be
effected by the pressure, but what effect will CO2
saturation (equilibrium) have on the yeast?
2. No fermentation vessel at all. Taking a nod
from fuel cells, introduce wort and yeast continuously
in a matrix and take out beer and CO2 perfectly
carbonated. Akin to that is the yeast mat. Trickle
wort through a yeast filter under pressure and get
beer and CO2 out the other side. Technical nightmare.
3. The incredibly expanding fermenter, or brew
in an accordion as my friend put it. Probably
impractical.
4. Biosphere III. Introduce a genetically
engineered algae that will eat the CO2 and tie
up the O2 as CaCO3. Obviously would have
to introduce Ca into the wort. Would have to use
an algae that can survive on the long wavelengths
of light to avoid skunking and tolerate high alcohol
concentrations. Cleaning the fermenter might be
a hassle.
5. Train the yeast to exhale where you want them
to (into a fermentation lock). These would have
to be patient yeast as the line for the fermentation
lock is likely to be long. Couldn't figure out what
to use as a yeast treat, perhaps some yeast
nutrient (future books, "No Bad Yeast" and "Training
Yeast the Woodward Method").
6. The high tech fermenter. A fermenter shaped to
quickly concentrate CO2 under gravity (something
like a jack shape). Computer controlled pressure
relief valves that would vent when a sensor inside
indicated "dry" CO2 and when the space craft was
accelerating. Even the Space Shuttle has to make
minor course corrections and attitude adjustments
every day. The brief and small amount of gravity
may be able to vent the CO2.
7. The beer thruster. A fermentation vessel the size
of the cargo bay is pitched when the space craft is
accelerating giving the yeast an up and down. The
CO2 is collected from the front vented to space to the
rear, pushing the space craft. Eventually the engines
could be turned off, the craft being accelerated by
beer. The engines would have to be restarted as the
fermentation died down. All you rocket scientists
out there can crunch the numbers and tell me what
a stupid idea this is but we were just speculating.
8. The beer sprayer. Instead of moving the
fermentation vessel, move the wort. Take your
beer/yeast/CO2 mixture and spray (more of a stream)
it at a target (collection tank). The beer/yeast mixture
will stay together due to surface tension. The
spraying chamber is under low pressure due to
pumps and causes CO2 to come out of solution
in the beer stream and is pumped away. The beer
is recycled for another trip through the sprayer. Careful
control of the pressure is a must to keep CO2 coming
out of solution from disrupting the beer stream too much.
I was going to include some ASCII art but am not that
talented.
9. We have O2 scavenging caps, why not CO2
scavenging material lining the fermentation vessel
or in the beer itself.
10. Electric beer. Attract CO2 bubbles by their
electric charge? Similarly magnetic beer. Didn't
know if CO2 was bipolar but we did know that water was.
perhaps using the difference in properties to separate
the two. Lots of other stuff floating around may get in the
way.
11. Centripetal beer. Least imaginative involves
spinning the fermentor to give it a centripetal up and
down. Careful not to introduce too much torque to
the spacecraft.
Keep in mind as you are flaming me that this was a
free association brainstorm session with a few
homebrews in us. Next session will focus on
laggering at near absolute zero.
Daniel Goodale
The Biohazard Brewing Company
Home of the zero gee Brew in a Lung (TM) brew kit.
Return to table of contents