---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Wheat Protein Size/ Taste Buds ((Larry Meyer))
  Re:Blue Whale (Suzette Smith)
  Re: Decoction (tgaskell at syr.lmco.com)
  HSA/Cream Stout/Victory (Jim Busch)
  re: indoor propane (Rscholz at aol.com)
  Beer in MB, SC? ("Bridges, Scott")
  RE:  Cream Stout (Milk in stout) ((George De Piro))
  Cream Stout2 (Schwab_Bryan at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil)
  Wedding beer/Blind spots/Blue Whale Ale/decoction/gelatin/Rager vs. hoptech (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  acetic Rodenbach ("Allan Rubinoff")
  Re: Home Distillation Manual here (John Varady)
  Iodophor for fruit sanitation (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
  Aeration thanks ((Mike Spinelli))
  Wooden keg coating ("Thomas K. Simacek")
  Bulkhead for Gott coolers (MadAntBrew at aol.com)
  Indoor Propane ("Gregory, Guy J.")
  Re: Wheeler on Porter (Kelly Jones)
  5 Liter Kegs (David Root)
  Re: Home Distillation Manual here ((Shawn Steele))
  esters abound (Greg Thompson)
  Using an Insulated Cooler (Jack Schmidling)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Meyer at msscc.med.utah.edu (Larry Meyer)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:26:43 -0700
Subject: Wheat Protein Size/ Taste Buds

Protein chemistry ahead, page down if not interested. 
 
George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) quotes a news and views report 
from the June 27, 1996 issue of Nature (p.738) on the size of wheat 
proteins. These mid-size proteins form polymers, which the reviewer from 
Nature states gives them their insoluable characteristics. I have worked 
with these proteins and would modify this slightly. 
 
Gluteins and gliadins are insoluable in water as monomers. They are defined 
as proteins insoluable in water, but soluable in acid and alcohol (thus 
soluable in Coomassie destain, for those who have experience with protein 
electrophoresis). Monomers are easy to create by reduction (e.g 2-ME). 
 
I am not as impressed by the size of these proteins as the reviewer. Many 
proteins polymerize to form huge multimers both extracellularly and 
intracellularly, e.g. collagen, keratin. 
 
These proteins are produced from 4 major families of duplicated genes with 
a high copy number, present on all wheat chromosomes. A side note is most 
wheat is hexaploid, semolina is tetraploid. Although semolina is called 
high glutein, this is a characteristic of the flour; the gluten protein 
level is similar to hexaploid wheat. There are 60-100 of these genes 
transcribed in most wheat strains, as assessed by 1-d protein 
electrophoresis. These are the things that sink to the bottom after letting 
a flour an water mix sit. 
 
Finally, these proteins are also present in barley and rye. The strict 
presence or absence of gluten cannot explain the differences in flour 
characteristics, but there may be qualitative differences. In a curious 
immune reaction some people react to these proteins, as well as developing 
auto-antibodies (gluten sensitivity or celiac disease and dermatitis 
herpetiformis). These people should basically avoid all 3 of these grains, 
and their condition settles down. This includes avoiding beer. 
 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
re: the 4 taste bud thread--- the cover of the same Nature cought my eye- a 
mouse taste bud. 
 
The article (p796) clones a taste bud protein, but the review (p737) states 
many compounds trigger taste sensations, and they are clasified in 5 
groups: sweet, salt, bitter, sour and umami (a new one to me) which is 
triggered by glutamate. A knockout of one taste bud protein causes a loss 
of both bitter and sweet taste in the mouse. It appears that multiple 
stimuli can trigger the same bud, with a different sensation (bitter or 
sweet). 
 
Larry Meyer 
meyer at med.utah.edu 
 
 
 
 

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From: Suzette Smith <SSMITH1 at drew.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:32:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re:Blue Whale

Subject: Re:Blue Whale 
 
Duffy asks about making the Blue Whale Ale. Do it. I made a batch earlier 
and it's quite an experience. When I bottled it, it tasted almost like 
grapefruit since the hops were so intense. It is a beer that will mellow 
with age, but is very drinkable after a few weeks in the bottle. 
 
Besides, I couldn't help but feel I was pushing the envelope, getting 
away with something by adding that many hops to a single batch! You will 
invariably find hop-heads who will love this beer. 
 
Nothing to fear but the beer... 
 
Suzette 

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From: tgaskell at syr.lmco.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 12:46:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Decoction

"Fiction and Fact from Tom's Almanac" on decoction mashing, 
then some ?s. 
 
I have made two beers recently that I have decoction mashed.  It has 
proceeded much more easily than I had expected (I believed all of the 
horror stories, but wanted malty beer).  Sure, I had a burnt spot or 
two on the bottom of my decoction pot, but thats a minor price to 
pay for maltiness, IMO. 
 
The things that I learned: 
- - Marc de Jonge deserves at least a round of applause for his article 
at the brewery on decoction mashing.  A complete, easy to follow, and 
well presented treatise on decoction mashing.  A must-read for any 
aspiring decoction mashers. 
URL: http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/DecoctFAQ.html 
 
- - Take BIG decoctions.  Even though I thought that I had enough grain 
(1st two of a three decoction) in my decoctions, I fell far short of 
the target temp for my next rest.  I have yet to hit or exceed any 
of my targets and have always had to add boiling water or propane 
heat to my main mash to get up to the next rest temp. 
 
- - Get as much grain and as little mash liquor within reason as you 
can in the decoctions, and thin them with treated water.  Before I 
boil the decoctions, the liquor level is even with the top of the 
grain.  I add distilled water (my tap water is liquid rock), and 
about an eighth of a teaspoon of gypsum to the decoction and have not 
extracted any discernable tannins or astringency from the husks. 
I have yet to get my sh*t together in measuring and maintaining pH. 
But I will real soon now....   I plan to get the ColorpHast (?) 
sticks.  The cheap papers are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS, and a meter is 
way too far gone. 
 
- - Use a big pot for boiling decoctions.  The thick boil spews globs 
hot grain each time it bubbles, after 30 minutes the area around the 
stove looks pretty rough.  There is about a quarter cup of grain 
clumps lying on the counter around the decoction pot. 
 
- - Decoction mashing does make for a longer brew day, but I like 
making beer better than nearly all of the other tasks I would 
otherwise get dropped in my lap. 
 
Now for my deccotion questions (attn: George, Tracy, Mark, etal.): 
 
I have conducted a triple decoction on 100% Vienna malt and not 
gotten the intense maltiness that I wanted.  I boiled each thick 
decoction for 30 minutes and got plenty of browning, but I had hoped 
for a really malty beer, which never quite came about.  I sparged 
with slightly less water than went into the main mash and got around 
26 pts/lb/gal, but not as much maltiness as I was trying for.  Did 
I oversparge?  I have read George Fix's "Yummy Malt Flavor" article 
at the Brewery and was curious if you decoction wizards agree with 
him (use 33% more grain, and no or minimal sparging). 
 
URL: http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/YMltGF92.html 
 
M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace at mac) asks about what happens in 
the rest (main) mash while a decoction is boiling: 
 
> when the cold (rest) mash sits at protein rest temperature 
> (122-131 F) for an extended time ( in my case, it sits a minimum 
> of 90 minutes) while the decocting is going on,  what's going on 
> in terms of protein degradation, and why doesn't this have an 
> effect on the body/head retention of the finished beer? 
 
In addition to this question about the first decoction, I want to 
know what happens during the second decoction.  Sure, most of the 
grain and its starch are in the decoction, but doesn't the long 
rest at the low end of the sacchrification range break down excessive 
amounts of starch into simple sugars at the expense of dextrins? 
Bocks are pretty sweet beers.  What sort of decoction schedule is 
used for the rich malty sweetness of a bock?  Is it possible to 
achieve this with a standard triple decoction, or must the rest at 
about 150F be adjusted to a higher temp to get more dextrins? 
 
For the decoction guys out there, thanks for the answers.  For the 
soon to decoct mashers out there, read Marc's FAQ, A.J. deLange's 
list of pluses and minuses about decoction mashing, and any other 
information you can, then make a decocted beer.  It is not as 
difficult as some would have you believe, and the effect on your beer 
can be incredible.  Do what I did, start with a single and progress 
toward a triple, or you will feel like the one legged man in an ass 
kicking contest - busy. 
 
Cheers, 
 
Tom Gaskell  tgaskell at syr.lmco.com  Hog Heaven Homebrewing  Clayville, NY, USA 

Return to table of contents


From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:25:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: HSA/Cream Stout/Victory

George writes: 
 
<In reality, pro brewers splash like mad as the grain flows into the 
<     mash tun at mash-in, and they don't care about it. 
 
It depends on the brewery.  Most older and traditional breweries were 
designed with little regard to HSA.  In many of these there is a 
considerable degree of oxidation of the mash and wort going on.  Most 
modern brewhouses, and even micro sized ones are now being designed 
to minimize O2 pickup.  The brewmasters at Victory Brewing spent 
several days with the engineers of Century Manufacturing to specifically 
eliminate several areas that are traditionally high O2 pickup points. 
While the dough in process can be an area of O2 pickup, I feel it 
is not that critical, particularly if one does a lower temp dough 
in, acid rest (104F), or protein rest (122-135).  The rate of the 
oxidation reactions are less of a problem at these temps.   What 
is of major concern is handling the mash, pumping from mash tun 
to lauter tun, decocting and so forth.  Since most of Victory's 
beers are decocted this was a major issue to address.  The other 
area is in wort transfer, mostly from the lauter tun back into 
the boiler.  Victory has no open aired grant but uses a closed 
pumping system which is based on a German design to minimize O2 
pickup. 
 
<Just try to keep 
<aeration of the hot mash/wort to as little as reasonably possible, and 
<you'll be fine. 
 
Very sound advice, especially for the homebrewer.  Many negative HSA 
effects arise in warm shipment of lighter, more delicate beers. 
Homebrewers tend to baby the beer compared with normal shipment in 
the industry. 
 
<A question just occurred to me:  in Fix's book 
<"Vienna/Marzen?Oktoberfest he states (sorry, no page # and I'm 
<paraphrasing) that it is generally accepted that multiple additions of 
<hop pellets do not make a difference in their contribution to the 
<beer. 
 
Maybe he was specifically referring to Festbiers.  I wouldnt want 
to hop a Festbier later than 30 minutes before knockout.  In general 
they do make a very wide difference but I feel less so with pellets 
than with whole hops. 
 
Bryan says: 
 
<Or is there something more in line and accepted practice when one 
<is brewin up a Cream Stout? 
 
Use lactose. 
 
<On another note, if anyboby gets over the Victory Brewing Company in 
<Dowingtown PA, it is wort your visit.  GREAT BREWS, Good Atmosphere ( 
<some of the waitresses need to lighten up abit though! :) ) Good pizza 
<even.  Good Job Jim!!:):):) 
 
Wort your visit, I like that!  Thanks!!!  Seriously, its not me.  Im 
involved but not day to day.  99% of the credit is due to the very 
accomplished brewmasters Ron Barchet (formerly of Old Dominion) and 
Bill Covaleski (formerly of Baltimore Brewing).   Both have extensive 
experience with German brewing and both have studied brewing in 
Germany.   Despite Victory's emphasis on decoction mashed German 
lagers made with German malts, the largest sellar is our American 
IPA, HopDevil.  Thats fine by me, its my every day beer!  Will have to 
work on that wait staff.   Hope you enjoyed the summer Hellesbock at 
7.4%!!! 
 
Prost! 
 
Jim Busch 
 
                        ---       --- 
                         ---     --- 
                          ---   --- 
                           --- --- ICTORY BREWING CO. 
                            -----    Downingtown, Pa. 
                             --- 
                              - 
 
                     A Victory For Your Taste! 
     Victory Festbier, Brandywine Valley Lager, HopDevil IPA 
       Prima Pils, Milltown Mild, St. Victorious Doppelbock 
  St. Boisterous HellesBock, HefeWeizen 
 

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From: Rscholz at aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:32:10 -0400
Subject: re: indoor propane

brewsters, 
 
motten at fcmc.com ([Michael Otten]) asks:  indoor propane?? 
 
cburns at spider.lloyd.com (Charley) replies: I say go for it Mike. 
 
I'm sorry to disagree, 
 
All household uses of propane, leave the tank outside, and all housing codes 
INSIST that all apliances be above ground level. (propane sinks in air). 
 
If you, Mike, are setting up in your basement, for the cost of the propane 
cylinder and a couple of refills, just have your plumber add a gas line over 
to your brewing bench. ( I assume the heat & hot water are just behind you) 
MUCH safer and up to code. If you know how to use gasline pipe dope, 
you can do it yourself for the cost of the pipe and end fitting ( a lab type 
valve) 
 
hope this helps, NOBODY should use propane in the basement! Just a small 
leak could pool in a depression and migrate over to the hot water heater 
pilot. 
Can you say BOOM !!! ;-) 
 
richard scholz 
bkyln ny 

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From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 14:39:00 PDT
Subject: Beer in MB, SC?

 
 
>From: MANCUSJM at sysadm.suny.edu 
>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:22 -0400 (EDT) 
>Subject: Brewpubs 
> 
>I am heading to the Myrtle Beach, SC soon and would appreciate 
>information about brewpubs or other decent establishments in the area. 
>Jim Mancuso 
>mancusjm at sysadm.suny.edu 
 
Jim, 
There are now 2 brewpubs in MB.  The first is Liberty Stakehouse and 
Brewery, located in Broadway At The Beach.  This is an 
entertainment/shopping complex off of Rt 17 bypass.  I've been there once. 
 The beer is ok, but not great.  They are making beer for the great unwashed 
masses.  It does nothing to dispel Michael Jackson's belief that only timid 
beer is being brewed in the South.  The other one is very new and I haven't 
had the chance to make it over yet.  It's called Wild Boar (or something 
Boar).  I believe that it's at Barefoot Landing in North MB.  Other than 
that, you're pretty much SOL.  Good beer is mostly a foreign concept in the 
area.  There are quite a few bars, but I've not seen much in the way of a 
focus on good beer.  At most restaurants (your food choices are virtually 
endless) the best you can hope for is a Sam Adams. 
 
My parents live there.  Any time I visit, I take my own.  At least that way, 
I know I where I can find a good beer :) 
 
Scott 

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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:56:16 -0700
Subject: RE:  Cream Stout (Milk in stout)

     Bryan ponders adding milk to his stout.  I guess you could, and then 
     claim that "It makes a body good," but traditionally only milk sugar 
     (lactose) is added to the stout.  Contrary to what I've read in one of 
     Jackson's books, lactose is not fermentable by brewer's yeast.  It 
     therefore adds sweetness to the beer. 
 
     It can be added to taste at packaging time in the same way you add 
     priming sugar.  Add it before the priming sugar if you're doing it to 
     taste, or else the sweetness of the priming sugar will confound you. 
 
     Mackeson is a wonderful commercial example of milk stout.  Just be 
     sure to warn your friends about the lactose in the beer:  strict 
     vegetarians and people who are lactose intolerant (a relatively common 
     condition) will appreciate it! 
 
     Lactose is available at some homebrew shops for ~$3.50/lb. 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

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From: Schwab_Bryan at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 14:03:37 CDT
Subject: Cream Stout2

 
     Greetings, just a couple issues which I need to clarify to those of 
     you out there in Beerland.  Yesterdays post where I mentioned the 
     waitresses at Victory Brewing.... It was ment to be taken as a joke 
     for Jim.  I am sorry if anyone has taken me and my comment serious. 
     The staff there at Victory was curtious and friendly towards me and my 
     traveling partner during my visit there. I, if anyone was abit out of 
     line and have made all of the appropriate explanations to Jim. 
     Secondly, as you could tell by my post there were alot of missing 
     words and misspelled words in the post.  Reason to worry about the 
     Defense Buget being cut, my Proof reader lost her job already! Uncle 
     Sugar's Canoe Club hasn't replaced her yet, and here at Club Fed we 
     haven't figured out if proof reading is in our job descriptions yet! 
     :) 
 
     Bryan 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 15:09:02 CDT
Subject: Wedding beer/Blind spots/Blue Whale Ale/decoction/gelatin/Rager vs. hoptech

Bill writes: 
>I'm busily brewing several batches of beer for a wedding (mine), and I got 
>to second guessing the amount of beer needed for a large group of mixed 
>company.  The bride and groom are pushing 40 (I like to think I'm in my 
>'Brewing' prime...) and we are expecting about 175 at the reception. 
 
Just a datapoint:  I brought two 5-gallon cornys to my wedding reception 
(one was a Pale Ale and the other a Cherry-Raspberry Ale).  It was an 
even mix of people and I was 31 at the time (if it makes a difference). 
These were not the only beers served (the rest was swill, sorry).  The 
head table drank from my cooler which was under the table, but everyone 
else drank either swill or the two homebrews.  The Pale Ale ran out 
after 2 hours and there were only a few pints of fruit beer left after 
the 4 hour reception at which there were about 300 people.  Note that 
these were not self-serve, but there was a sign on the bar and people 
had to ask for them. 
 
*** 
Jim writes: 
>Not to pick on Al, but here is a 
>very good example of my point.  He says he can't taste the acetic acid in 
>Rodenbach. Well it is quite likely that some of the writers and historians of 
>the past also had their own perceptual blind spots. 
 
Jim, I am a pretty good beer judge IMO (BJCP Master).  Part of being a good 
beer judge is knowing one's own sensitivities and blind spots.  I can assure 
you that my sensitivity to acetic acid is par with other judges with whom 
I've judged (both in competition and at tastings).  Besides a Dr. Beer session 
the best way to find out your level of sensitivity to judge beers with others 
and compare notes.  I've done this know that my sensitivity to sourness (taste 
- -- on the tongue) is slightly less than most judges (or perhaps just that 
my consumption of large quanitities of traditional Lambieks has stretched my 
scale a little more than most judges) but that my other sensitivities are 
average compared to other judges. 
 
Furthermore, neither you nor I nor anyone else can differentiate acetic 
acid from lactic acid by *taste*.  I said that I did not sense any vinegary 
character (aroma, actually) in Rodenbach.  Your taste buds will only tell 
you that "this liquid is sour" -- it's your nose that will tell you that 
it is lactic, acetic or a combination of the two.  I simply cannot recall 
a Rodenbach or Rodenbach Grand Cru that was noticeably acetic.  I do recall 
one Rodenbach I tasted at the Evanston 1st Liquors' tasting three years ago 
that had an iron-like character -- like rust.  Yuk! 
 
*** 
Duffy writes (regarding the Blue Whale Ale recipe in Zymurgy): 
 
>A.  I calculated the IBU's to be in the neighborhood of 170 using both 
>BrewWiz and by Papazian's formula in NCJOHB. 
>B.  Pale Ale/IPA stylistic guidelines for bitterness  would be 30-70 IBU's 
>max, according to Papazian and Miller. (Dave Miller, not the heart of the 
>hops guys.) 
> 
>My questions are: 
>1.   Did I figure the IBU's right? 
>2.   If #1 is correct, will this be *way* overdone on the hops to the point 
>of not being drinkable? 
>3.   Am I placing too much faith in stylistic guidelines?  I know they are 
>important when brewing to a style for entering in contests, but should they 
>be used as a benchmark for evaluating a recipe before you brew? 
 
I flagged this as a problem when I reviewed this recipe for Zymurgy.  I 
suggested that perhaps there was a typo or mistake on the recipe form. 
Zymurgy called the brewer who confirmed the hop schedule. 
 
Here's my take on the whole thing: 
 
Yes, you figured the IBUs in the right range based on what you had for 
formulas, but there are other factors that could have affected the actual 
IBUs/bitterness in the beer: 
 
1. perhaps the hops were old, stored in regular polyethylene bags and 
were stale -- this will severely reduce their bittering potential, 
 
2. perhaps they used whole hops which can have slightly less IBU contribution 
than pellets, especially for the shorter boils, 
 
3. perhaps they used hop bags -- my tests have shown that my initial guess 
of 10% loss due to hop bags was about right, 
 
4. perhaps they used blowoff -- my tests have shown that blowoff can cause 
as much as a 17% loss on IBUs and none of the currently published formulas 
account for it, and 
 
5. as the hop rate goes up the utilization comes down -- i.e. if 1 ounce of 
a hop adds 40 IBUs, 4 ounces will add less than the anticipated 160 IBUs 
(I have yet to see any formula based upon *actual experiments* that accounts 
for this factor). 
 
So, if they used oldish whole hops, hop bags and blowoff, perhaps they really 
got only 120 IBUs.  I had an American Pale Ale at the Portland Conference 
homebrewed by Thom Thomlinson and it had an estimated 135 IBUs.  Delicious! 
 
*** 
Mike writes: 
 
>        First, in discussing decoction mashing, Noonan writes that boiling 
>the decoction "deoxygenates the mash", reducing hot side aeration.  (page 
>135)  I had thought that boiling did nothing to reduce hot side 
>aeration---if it did, why would aeration of the sparged wort be a problem, 
>you could simply reduce it later in the boil.  Am I missing the point here? 
 
When you raise the temperature of a liquid, it hold less dissolved gasses. 
Notice that he says "reduces." Actually, it doesn't reduce "hot side aeration" 
per se, it reduces the dissolved oxygen which therefore reduces the amount 
of oxidation that takes place during the mash, but this is just a matter of 
semantics.  In the end the bottom line is (as Charlie S. has written in the 
past) that oxidation during the mash is a factor and that some breweries 
deoxygenate their brewing water. 
 
The oxidation continues to take place.  You should try to avoid aerating 
your liquor (water), your mash and your wort.  If you aerate your sweet wort 
while taking the runnings, yes you will boil later (which will boil out the 
dissolved oxygen), but the 30 or 60 minutes of time that the wort spends with 
a "lot" of dissolved oxygen in it is enough time to cause damage to your wort 
which can carry over to your beer. 
 
Also Mike writes: 
>Noonan writes that gelatin is not 
>effective *unless* the beer temperature is dropped below 50 degrees F 
 
Not in my experience.  I fined half of a split batch with gelatin at 70F 
and there was considerable improvement in the settling of the yeast.  Perhaps 
it would have been even more effective at 50F or 40F, but it was not 
ineffective as suggested by Noonan. 
 
*** 
Mark writes: 
>about a year now.  one is jackie rager's formula, found in the zymurgy 
>1990 special issue (i think), and the other method is from the hoptech 
>catalog. 
> 
>the biggest difference in these two methods is the utilization factor, which 
>rager states as 30% for a 60 minute boil; hoptech says 20%.  gee, are they 
>trying to get me to use more hops???? 
 
I tested Rager's formulas on MY system by sending beer made with them to 
the Siebel Institute.  For MY system (not unconventional, 10 gallon pot on 
a 12,000 BTU kitchen stove) Rager's formulas worked if I used hop bags, 
added 10% more hops (to compensate for the hop bags) and did not use the 
blowoff method.  The actual numbers are listed in my review of Using Hops 
in Zymurgy about a year or 18 months ago.  They are also in my Brewing 
Techniques article on Blowoff. 
 
The hoptech utilizations as well as the ones in Using Hops will make much 
hoppier beer than expected (both based upon my experiments and on private 
email with a highly esteemed HBD contributor who will remain nameless). 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas 

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From: "Allan Rubinoff" <allan_rubinoff at mathworks.com>
Date: 25 Jul 1996 16:03:15 -0400
Subject: acetic Rodenbach

In HBD #2122, Steve Stroud writes: 
 
> From personal experience, I can report that the Boston area had bottles 
> of Grand Cru some years ago that was acetic enough to clean your teeth 
> off. The more recent vintages have been much more restrained. 
 
This is interesting.  I live in the Boston area, and I tried Rodenbach 
only once, probably about 5-6 years ago.  It was so acetic, it tasted 
like pickles!  Definitely not to my liking, so I've never been tempted 
to try it since.  Perhaps I should give it another chance. 
 
Allan Rubinoff 
rubinoff at mathworks.com 
 

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From: John Varady <vectorsy at netaxs.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 16:13:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Home Distillation Manual here

It's funny how people think the BATF cares about home distillation. 
 
You know, it's also illegal to brew more then 100 gallons a year 
for a single person household, 200 gallons for a multi-person 
household. 
 
So, how many of us can expect the BATF to come bustin' down the door? 
 
Guilty, 
 
John Varady 
Boneyard Brewing Co. 
Http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html 
 
 

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From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 15:27:22 CDT
Subject: Iodophor for fruit sanitation

Do you see any problems with using iodophor for sanitizing fruit? 
I was thinking of a 15 min soak followed by a rinse in boiled/cooled 
tapwater.  Any problems you can think of?  Primarily I'm thinking of 
blueberries and raspberries because I've had trouble blanching these 
(they fall apart when you dip frozen berries in boiling water for few 
seconds -- I ended up having to put the blanching water right into the 
secondary too). 
 
Al. 

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From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 16:46:01 edt
Subject: Aeration thanks

HBDers, 
thanks to all those who've come forward to explain every aspect of aeration one
could imagine. 
 
Now, armed with all this info., I'm leaning towards a pump of some kind. Quick 
question: 
Would an air compressor like one used for paint spraying do the same thing as 
an
aquarium pump?  It would seem to me that the air compressor would be a better 
choice since the gas is compressed as opposed to just being pumped thru with an
aqua. pump. 
 
Comments? 
Mike 
 

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From: "Thomas K. Simacek" <c22tks at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:11:06 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: Wooden keg coating

 
 
 > Many years ago, I purchased two wooden barrels from a local 
 > cooper for making beer.  He informed me that beer barrels were 
 > always lined with a coating of paraffin (wax).  I saw him do 
 > the coat as I was there when he finished assembling my two kegs. 
 > He coated all interior surfaces with melted wax and a torch 
 > before assembling the final end piece, then poured the 
 > flaming melted wax in through the bung to seal 
 > up the end and swished it around.  I am sure there was an art to 
 > doing this just right, but he made it look simple.  At the time 
 > he showed me charred barrels he made for people who liked to 
 > further age their whiskey. 
 > 
 > In previous articles I have seen refrence to "brewer's pitch" coating 
 > the kegs holding IPA for it's long journey to India.  It was 
 > probably some type of pitch with the volatiles boiled out so 
 > the beer's flavor would not be contaminated.  Or, perhaps this pitch 
 > was a contributing factor to the unique East Indian IPA flavor 
 > some are trying to re-capture?  As paraffin is also a petroleum 
 > byproduct, could brewer's pitch and paraffin be the same coating? 
 > 
 > The life of these barrels was probably short-lived, as there was 
 > no liquid in contact with the wood to swell it up to maintain 
 > the hoop tension.  Or, after use, the coating could be removed 
 > with boiling water and used in a conventional manner. 
 > 
 > This could be an interesting subject for a budding brewmaster's 
 > research paper. 
 > 
 I have read some article about that. Originally coopers used 
wooden resins (pinewood??) or wax and burned them in barrels as described 
above.
 It was a procedure used for all (almost all) kegs and did increase the keg 
 life since wood rots when in contact with watter. It is the dry wood which 
 can last forever. 
 The wax (resins) and tannin from wood added distinguished taste to the beer. 
 Unfortunatelly this presented also major undoing for wooden barrels. 
 It is VERY hard to maintain consistency in the above procedure and resins 
 burned too much add a very bad taste to beer. The consistency of the coating 
 has been mentioned as the main reason why most breweries got rid of wooden 
 kegs. (They strive to get the same beer all the time.) 
 
 Tom Simacek 
 
 

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From: MadAntBrew at aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:00:57 -0400
Subject: Bulkhead for Gott coolers

Bryan Gros in HBD 2112 writes I'm suprised their is no commercial 
alternative..... 
 
Checkout "Hoptech" in Pleasanton CA 1-510-426-1450 http://www.hoptech.com 
They offer a nice, screw into place, leak-free, bulkhead made from high temp 
polypropylene. A little expensive at $10 but no "construction" involved. 

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From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 13:53:00 PDT
Subject: Indoor Propane

 
Charley writes, by no means alone, 
 
"I've been using propane to heat my house and cook my food in the kitchen 
for 2 1/2 years with absolutely no problem (hasn't gon e "boom" yet). 
Millions of people use it in 
rural communities because its cheaper than electricity (by a long shot) and 
natual gas just isn't available in places like where I live (on a mountain 
side). I don't understand the paranoia here." 
 
Look, guys, there's no paranoia.  Propane is used as a fuel in zillions of 
houses, yes.  Propane is used in appliances every day.  Yes.  Propane is 
wonderful stuff.  Yes. I use it in my jet cooker on my back porch every time 
I brew....like this weekend. (no affilliation, blah, blah, just a satisified 
customer).... 
 
Propane is also heavier than air.  Propane presents challenges to the home 
installer which are unique to the fuel and require reasonable care.  I, 
personally, would not use propane in a basement and rely on detectors for my 
home and family's safety. Most (not all) propane installations I have seen 
have some pathway for the gas to travel outside by going down. 
 
Yes, CO is an issue with any combustible.  For my money, with propane, it's 
not the paramount one.  A professional can help you design around the 
issues.  On boats, propane is seldom used, and only when it can be vented 
overboard. 
 
If you'll read the original post, I believe you'll note I referred the 
original guy to a professional for his requested installation. I'll stand by 
that advice. 
 
Guy Gregory 
GuyG4 at aol.com 
Lightning Ck. Brewing....Home of Flaming Turf Ale 

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From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:34:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Wheeler on Porter

Al wrote, regarding Wheeler: 
 
> He also hailed Guinness's blending-in soured 
> beer as being a new revival while they have been doing it in their stouts 
> for years.  There were my greatest gripes and really the only parts of my 
> post that were harsh. 
 
But Wheeler didn't claim that at all. The quote was: 
 
> The newly introduced Guinness "Harwood's Porter" breaks history on 
> two grounds. Not only is it the first cask conditioned beer ever to be made 
> at the Park Royal Brewery, but it is the only example of the new generation 
> of porters that is a proper porter; a blend of mild and stale like old time 
> porters used to be. 
 
Wheeler said that the new porter is the only *PORTER* which uses blended-in 
soured beer.  He clearly was not saying this was the first soured *BEER* put 
out by Guinness, nor was he talking about their stout. It sounds much more 
reasonable when properly quoted.  What's the gripe? 
 
Kelly 

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From: David Root <droot at cris.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:10:37 -0700
Subject: 5 Liter Kegs

I've been using 5L kegs for over one year and have had some 
problems.  Some swelled the tops and one split a seam on the bottom 
and leaked out all the dunkel in my basment.  My homebrew supply shop 
Niagara Tradition <disclaimer> recomended 3 tsp corn sugar.  I have 
had NO problems since. The first two or three glasses come out on 
their own and need a Co2 cartridge after that.  I have had the whole 
keg empty without using Co2  when I primed as if I were going to 
bottle.  When this happens the beer never settles down and is cloudy. 
Just my .02 
 
Droot at concentric.net    David Root   Lockport NY 
 

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From: shawn at aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:59:07 -0600
Subject: Re: Home Distillation Manual here

> It's funny how people think the BATF cares about home distillation. 
 
> You know, it's also illegal to brew more then 100 gallons a year 
> for a single person household, 200 gallons for a multi-person 
> household. 
 
> So, how many of us can expect the BATF to come bustin' down the door? 
 
Actually 13 states don't even allow homebrewing, and another 7 are 
questionable.  They still have homebrew clubs & shops though ;) Check 
out http://www.aob.org/aob/legal/legal.html 
 
- - shawn 
Webmaster at aob.org 

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From: Greg Thompson <gregt at visix.com>
Date: 25 Jul 1996 21:34:17 -0400
Subject: esters abound

i just bottled what was supposed to be a northwest style somewhat 
bitter ale, and boy does it taste like a belgian.  what the hell 
happened?  i used wyeast's 1098 british ale yeast, which i've used 
before with great success, and it tastes like i used the 1214 belgian 
abbey ale yeast, which i've also used with even greater success.  has 
anyone heard of wyeast mislabeling their packets? 
 
anyway, the recipe was: 
 
3.3# M&F light syrup 
3# muntons plain amber dme 
2# muntons plain light dme 
1# crystal malt (20L) 
1.5 oz northern brewer pellets (7%) 
1 oz cascade pellets (4.4%) 
.5 oz cascade pellets (5.4%) 
Wyeast #1098 british ale yeast (i think, but it tastes more like 1214) 
 
i mashed the crystal malt by holding it at 120F for 30min, 150F for 10 
min, and 158F for 10min.  boiled for 57min with the northern brewer, 
tossed in the .5oz of 5.4% cascade and boiled for 3 more, then dumped 
in the final ounce of cascade to do yummy stuff while the wort cooled 
down.  OG: 1.058.  primary for 3 days, secondary for 9.  FG: 1.014. 
 
smells super banana-y.  why?  don't get me wrong, though, i certainly 
plan to drink it... 
- -- 
  -greg      listening to when Ann cries 
          and swears and kisses all 
        her lover's ex-lover's lips 
        -swervedriver 

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From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:20:41 -0700
Subject: Using an Insulated Cooler

In HBD 2112  "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> wrote: 
 
HH> I'm suprised Phil (TM) or no one has come up with a commercial 
HH> solution the the hole in the cooler.  There is certainly a market 
HH> for something... 
 
I don't know about those other folks but putting an EASYMASHER in an 
insulated cooler is so simple that no entrepreneurial spirit is required. 
All you need is a rubber stopper with a 3/8" bore.  You poke the EM 
into the stopper till it sticks out far enough to put a hose on it and 
push the stopper into the hole on the cooler.  Done! 
 
We even make an EM for the purpose.  It's just the tube and strainer 
assembly.  You supply the stopper. 
 
I don't push it because I have never used it but we have a dealer on 
the West Coast that sells hundreds of them that way and says it works 
like a champ. 
 
js 
 
p.s. I agree with the comments on usenet and often wondered why the 
HBD exists myself.  The only thing I can conclude is that lots of folks 
don't have access to usenet. 
- -- 
Visit our WEB pages:  http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/ 
 

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