---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Re: Identifying a contaminant ((Jay Reeves))
  Sweetness/decoctions and lagering (Steve Alexander)
  Jockey Box (Michael Caprara)
  Coffee beer (Fmrfx at aol.com)
  [none] ((Doug MORTIMER))
  Apparently-To: homebrew at aob.org ((Kenneth J. Dion))
  American Oak (Rob Moline)
  Undried hops for storage? ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  Indoor's a gas! ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  Beer King (Steinar Svinoe)
  Iodophor$$$ ("Rich Byrnes")
  RE: Decoction/Neophyte HBD2129 ((Michael A. Genito))
  another Iodophor source (Btalk at aol.com)
  Brown Ale ((Russ Brodeur))
  burnt taste (M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace at mac))
  Ancient Egyptian brewing article (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Kansas City Mo. Water Content (Kris Grahn)
  TSP (Glenn Heath)
  huffing nitrous (Gregory King)
  Oak Chips ("David R. Burley")
  backpacks at GABF? pt. #1 ("Robert Waddell")
  backpacks at GABF? pt. #2 ("Robert Waddell")

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jay at ro.com (Jay Reeves)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:03:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Identifying a contaminant

Bill Rust made a comment in HBD2130 that I question: 
 
>However, I have a lot of success 
>with purified/distilled drinking water (can't use distilled when mashing, 
>tho).  Filtered or pre-boiled water are better than the store-bought, if you 
>have time. 
 
I use distilled water alot for mashing with absolutely no problems. 
I shoot for the type of water I'm after by adjustments with salts, then if 
the pH isn't right, I use phosphoric acid or calcium carbonate to adjust it. 
As long as you use salts to provide the enzymes and yeast with some needed 
ions/nutrients, and monitor the pH, I've found that distilled water works 
just fine for mashing. 
 
Why is filtered or pre-boiled water better than store-bought?  It depends 
on the situation - i.e. what water/beer you're trying to emulate.  Sometimes 
you can get closer to the water style by using distilled and adding salts, 
then sometimes it's easier to use your purified and/or pre-boiled tap water. 
 
                                                -Jay Reeves 
                                                Huntsville, Alabama, USA 
 

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From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:02:40 -0400
Subject: Sweetness/decoctions and lagering

 
A while back Tracy Aquilla(I believe?)  posted that dextrins shouldn't 
contribute to perceptable sweetness, and my recent reading on flavor 
science confirms this.  A short table in volume 2 of M&B Sci shows 
residual carbs in a list of beer types, including sweet stouts, and 
what sticks out is that what I imagine as the sweeter tasting beers 
on this list contain more fermentable sugars !!  How can this be ? 
Aside from filtering or really adverse yeast growth conditions,  I 
can't imagine what would prevent any yeast - even a poorly attenuating 
one from finishing off virtually all of the really simple sugars 
(glucose, fructose, sucrose). I thought that the attenuation ability 
of yeast is primarily a function of which sugars they are able to 
metabolize, and not their ability to 'completely' metabolize a 
particular sugar. 
 
So what does make a sweet beer sweet ?  Is it the ~<1% residual simple 
sugars ? 
 
- -- 
 
Some talk lately of decoction mashing, maltiness, astringency, 
decoctions and ales.  I recently (as an experiment) did a single 
decoction mash while brewing a brown ale.  The malt was primarily 
Munton&Fison pale-ale malt. My target mash pH was my usual 5.1, which 
may help reduce astringency. The very thick decoction after a 15' boil 
was VERY VERY liquid.  These very well modified malts turn into soup 
at a boil; not much left but the husks.  During a decoction boil, as 
AlK points out, additional tannins and phenolics are, or could be 
released. There is also a lot of protein available in the decoct & 
mash pots for protein/phenolic complexes to form.  The decoction does 
seem to develop a just little tannic edge during the boil, but it's 
undetectable after the wort boil.  Bottom line - the Brown ale has no 
perceptable astringency and is crystal clear without any fining at ~2 
weeks post fermentation. 
 
Steve Alexander 
 

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From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara at awwarf.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:51:51 -0600
Subject: Jockey Box

>>> Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only 
<homebrew-request@ aob.org> 08/01/96 07:54am >>> 
I want to start using corny kegs, but I'm not sure how to keep the  darn 
things cold.  My wife is reluctant to put an old refrigerator  in the house 
for aesthetic reasons, so I am looking for alternatives.  As I'm not that 
mechanically inclined, complex building projects  are not an option for me. 
 If anyone has any unique ideas how to  chill and dispense beer from 
corny kegs, please let me know! 
  By the way, this is my first post to HBD after a few weeks of lurking. 
I've really learned a lot (I'm pretty much a novice) and I look  forward to 
learning more! 
 
 Robert 
 
Hey Robert, build a jockey box.  It does not require much in the way of 
mechanical skills.  All you do is get a cooler, insert a coil of copper tube 
inside, drill 2 holes in the cooler, attach a hose with a liquid corny fitting 
on one end of the copper (run this out of the hole, attach with a hose 
clamp), attach a hose with a tap dispenser to the other end.  Seal the 
holes with some caulk. 
 
There you go.  Put ice in the cooler around the copper coil, hook up some 
brew and enjoy.  I have used one of these at a party in Gainesville, FL. 
The kegs were in the 98 degree heat and run through a jockey box and 
cold beer flowed from the tap! 
 
Brewfully Deadicated, 
MC 
 

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From: Fmrfx at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:04:56 -0400
Subject: Coffee beer

Greetings from the Great White North.  I'm wondering if anyone out there has 
made a coffee beer.  I figured I'd try to combine my two favorite food 
groups.  I'd be using extracts, and was thinking a stout would probably be 
best.  If you have any input, or a tried and true recipe, I'd love to hear 
it.  On another note, re: the BATF and getting togeather with the NRA.  Hey, 
beer and firearms don't mix. 
 
Stay cold - Brian Winter 
 at  Everybody Loves Winter Brewing 
Minneapolis, MN 

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From: dlm at juno.com (Doug MORTIMER)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:36:05 PST
Subject: [none]

I am a home brewer and would like some information about your 
organization. 
 
Thank you, 
 
Doug Mortimer 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: au630 at rgfn.epcc.Edu (Kenneth J. Dion)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 20:43:49 MDT
Subject: Apparently-To: homebrew at aob.org

 
 
UUCP hplabs!hpfcmr!homebrew-request 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:03:07 -0500
Subject: American Oak

        Greetings, 
Isn't American Oak generally deemed to be unsuitable for coopering for 
beers? Quite a different animal versus French Oak, as I recall, the latter 
being desireable, but the former being capable of producing quite harsh 
flavors? Yes? No? If this is the case, wouldn't using Am. Oak chips in your 
beer be possibly counter-productive? 
Jethro 
 
Cheers! 
Rob Moline 
Little Apple Brewing Company 
Manhattan, Kansas 
 
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about 
beer!"
 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:27:21 -0600
Subject: Undried hops for storage?

 
> 
>Subject: Wild Hops and Storage 
> 
> 
>My next question concerned freezing UNDRIED hops, prompted by a quote 
>from one of Charlie's books.  Only two people responded that they had 
>actually done so, and both reported good results.  However, they also 
>noted that they did NOT perform comparison tests between dried and 
>undried hops.  I guess I'll take that burden upon myself.  The 
>overwhelming majority responded to the effect that "Yes, hops should be 
>dried -- there must be a good reason because it's always done that way." 
>No offense intended, but I can't buy that line.  In a perpetual search 
>for improving our craft (and our products), I think we ALL owe it to 
>ourselves to tinker and experiment to see if we can't do even better. 
>(I find it curious that the "Just Try It" attitude did not extend to 
>THIS subject!) ... 
> 
>  - Jim 
> 
 
* Hey Jimbo-  I didn't get in on this when it was hot (this time around), 
but heres 2c. Got a dime? 
 
A summer (or two?) back we hashed upon this very same topic (that of- whats 
the point in drying hops, why not use them fresh).  Nobody came up with 
anything real definitive, as it goes.  There was the consensus of "thats 
how its done" but there was more to it. 
 
2 points:    a.  WET /green hops are more susceptible to mold, yes even in 
a freezer.  I've had it happen.  The drying reduces the ability of molds 
etc. to grow on hops, even at cold temperatures. And secondly: they 
freeze/thaw in a more usable state.  Ever had frozen spinach?  Uck.   Its 
not so much the freezing, as the thawing that really turns those nice 
shapely cones to goo. 
 
Another point is in regard to measuring:  You'll note that most formulas 
for calculating bitterness (IBU, HBU) depend on the weight in ounces of 
hops.  That weight is most probably (hedge,hedge) based on the standard 80% 
dried hops found commercially. 
 
Ok, as for "why dry" at all?  The debate raged.  Both sides were heated for 
battle....Some theories about chlorophyll reduction so you don't get 
"green" vegetable flavors were tossed around.  Plus ideas about changes to 
the lupulin crystals....I honestly don't recall any hard scientific 
evidence being brought up (surprised?),  but from my 'not-totally' minimal 
knowledge of the concepts I could see there being some truth to the idea 
that there are biochemical changes occur during drying which might reduce 
"bad" flavors, while improving "good" flavors (for the techno-nerds among 
us!).  One person queried the concept of drying- as providing an avenue for 
oxidation.  His argument: 'if light, and heat are enemies of hops, don't 
they get too much of that on the vine?  why dry them it is only going to 
allow more air contact after picking.  Why not just toss them in the pot 
fresh off the vine, or store them directly in the freezer' 
 
I tried using some "green" hops for finishing in a brew.  I don't recall 
actually getting the same potent waft of "BOUQUET" that I usually 
experience with my dried homegrown cascades.  I don't remember any 
significant off flavors (no cooked corn for example) due to the greenery, 
but I also don't get the same experience from handlish fresh hops as the 
dried hops give.  If you squish up some dry cones, and wet cones- I think 
you'll notice more hop aroma from the dry ones.  Perhaps it's more of a 
structural condition than biochemical,  dry cones are more able to fall 
apart, or release the lupulin crystals when in solution, while green cones 
hold tightly together, and keep the crystals attached. 
 
Now I'm truly speaking through my arss (Jim Carey fans anyone?  I'm not!). 
So, take it for what you will. 
 
 
1. Storage advantages, weight measure, and thaw condition. 
B. Biochemical or structural changes due to drying that are positive to brewing
 
As for the wild ones, males... 
        If their canabis cousins are any-reference, then Truly there is 
truth in the concept that Male Pollination reduces Female potency.  A 
definite rule of thumb for pot growers is to rid oneself of males, and keep 
only the females, allowing NO pollination to occur, or seeds are produced. 
And the potency is reduced.  Pot forms crystalline stuctures which are 
quite similar to the lupulin crystals of hops.  These crystal formations 
are way reduced if pollination occurs.  Plus the THC content is lowered. 
Same concept with hops, just Alpha Acids instead of THC. 
 
 
> 
> 
>------------------------------ 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
///John-    The Cosmic Coyote  -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
 
 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:28:52 -0600
Subject: Indoor's a gas!

>From: motten at fcmc.com ([Michael Otten]) 
>RE: Indoor Gas Stoves 
> 
>I am currently in the planning stage of creating a Brauhaus in my 
>basement.  ... but my concern right now is safety.  I have heard all the 
>>warnings about not using propane cookers indoors, but are there any which 
>are >safe for indoor use 
 
>anyone know of exhaust fans or the like which are effective in reducing 
>Carbon Monoxide and other fumes which would be hazardous to me or my 
>family?     Are there any other suggestions from others who 
>have made an indoor system? 
> 
 
*  I've been using  CampChef (Cache Cooker, aka 'Coyote Cooker' <g>) in a 
basement, and now in my garage for about 4 (billion ;) years now.  And I 
haven't suffered anymore braindamage than years of teen drug abuse might 
have provided ;)   SO JUST DO IT!   (BTW: The Cache Cooker can be converted 
to natural gas, but you lose some BTU's in the process.  I haven't looked 
into it myself.) 
 
The main concerns are what you've heard about, CO,  but if you have a clean 
(e.g. blue) flame, as a opposed to a dirty (yellow) one you should have 
almost no CO production.  Make sure there is adequate source air, and your 
intake vents are fully open. 
 
Second concern, O2 deprivation.  In a small space a MORE POWERFUL (ooh, 
ooh) burner can suck the O2 right outa your lungs!  (oh yeah, ugh, right 
outa the lungs.  Arrr)   So...you need a good air intake.  An open window 
can be adequate, an open door more-so, and open garage door, oh 
yeah....lots of flies too.  An open window with a fan blowing IN is better 
still. 
 
Thirdly: Gas leaks.   A very real DANGER (Will Robinson...).   Propane is 
"scented",  kinda like your finer, and more potent fart gas (sulfury). 
Natural gas is not so fragrant.  Both gases will settle, so they can 
accumulate on a floor, or in a drain, and will very readily ignite (don't 
drop you butts boy!). 
        Solution:  1. check gas lines/connectors for leaks.  Have your tank 
checked regularly, regulator and all.   2.  Store the gas tank outside. 
With any luck if there are leaks they will be dispersed before posing a 
hazard. 
 
Be careful.  Check your valves that you don't bump them on, then light a 
match nearby.  Duoh!  If you do leak gas, let it air out before lighting 
any flame sources.  Be aware of such things as pilot lights providing amble 
ignitition source for any leaked gas.  Electrical sparks can also ignite 
gas. 
 
NOTE:  My stove is a two burner 35k BTU burner.  I generally get nice blue 
flames, and have excellent simmering control.  Your maga-powerful jet 
engine style cajun  cookers, and fish fryers in the 100+ BTU range may not 
be as safe indoors, besides requiring the use of ear plugs!  IMHO 35BTU are 
plenty adequate for big boils.  (I do 15 gallons batches FWIW). 
 
I do believe in exhause fans.  I have plans for an attic-type fan in my 
"Rumpus Room" cook area.  A typical kitchen exhaust hood (vented) should be 
adequate.  The low budget approach (Which I'm using now) is to stick your 
stove by a window, and place a box fan ($10) in the window drawing air 
outward.  A window open across the room provides inflow of fresh air. 
 
I can report no major health hazards using such a system ("I'm not dead 
yet, feeling better, think I'll go for a walk"),  course I may get a little 
lightheaded during a while day of brewing, but between the lifting, 
sweating, and SAMPLING I don't find that reason for concern. 
 
                                All in a daze work. 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
///John-    The Cosmic Coyote  -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
 
 

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From: Steinar Svinoe <svinoe at telepost.no>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 08:57:37 -0700
Subject: Beer King

Does anybody know the adress and phone/fax number for the 
manufacters of the Beer King Beertap. 
 
best regards 

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From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 08:39:50 EDT
Subject: Iodophor$$$

Greetings Beerlings... 
 
Ah, the ever popular Iodophor VS CowTeat Cleaner (Udderdo) thread 
surfaces again.  I recommend to anyone wanting to save a few 
bucks on Iodophor that you call your local restaraunt supply store, 
hell, call them all!  About 2 miles from my office is a great 
supply shop that carries Iodophor by the gallon for about $19, now 
I wouldn't have the foggiest idea where to find UdderDo in the 
Motor City, but restaraunt supply shops abound!  You would be well 
served (especially pico brewers) to visit said shop and look around 
there is a treasure trove of stuff for homebrewers.  Large wooden 
stirring paddles, industrial skimmers, x-long cleaning brushes etc.. 
you might be pleasantly surprised! 
 
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr 
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen     \\\|/// 
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o 
rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com                         (_) 
 

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From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael A. Genito)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:33:56 -0400
Subject: RE: Decoction/Neophyte HBD2129

In HBD2129 Mike Swan asks if you have to lager if you use a decoction mash. 
Mike - I made a pale ale using a decoction, and ended up with one of the 
best tasting beers I ever made. It fermented at normal ale temps (~75F)using 
Wyeast American Ale 1056 yeast. 
 
In HBD2129 Bob McGloughlin asked for recommendations on good starter brewing 
books. Bob - when I started, I got, and still have, The Complete Joy of 
Homebrewing, by Charlie Papazian. I find it is an excellent reference, and 
will take you from your first batch to all-grain (if you decide to go that 
far). You don't need a book to start your first batch of beer - just go into 
a homebrew supply store and ask for a complete ingredient kit (typically 
includes hopped malt and yeast package) - most of them include instructions. 
You of course will need a brewing kit (fermentation bucket with airlock, 
bottling bucket, siphon tubing, bottle capper), a 16 or 20qt pot to boil 
your wort, and approximately 50 bottles (you can clean out deposit type beer 
bottles, get the brown ones like Bud or Coors) and bottle caps (also 
available from the brew supply. Also - read the HBD, keeping in mind that 
everyone from newbie to rocket scientist contributes. Don't be overwhelmed 
by all the technical stuff you hear, just stick to the basics and have fun. 
 
- -mg 
 

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From: Btalk at aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:42:58 -0400
Subject: another Iodophor source

Central Tractor is a farm store chain in the northeast US and perhaps on the 
midwest, though i'm not sure how widespread. 
 
I found a teat dip with the brand name Dionne for 4.99/gallon! 
.5% titratable iodine, active ingredient 2.5% iodine. No other ingredients 
like Phosphoric acid or lanolin. 
 
Later, 
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> 

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From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:53:18 -0400
Subject: Brown Ale

I would like to brew an English brown ale similar to Newcastle's.  From my 
own observations, this beer has both low hop bitterness and aroma and a 
slightly sweet, caramel flavor.  I assume there is a high percentage of 
crystal malt in this beer.  From their web site, 
http://alpha.communicata.co.uk/broonale/, I got the impression some 
percentage of maize was used in the grist as well. 
 
I checked the Cat's Meow, and was rather unimpressed with the recipes.  So, 
I have attempted my own, based upon my observations. 
 
For 5.5 US gal: 
 
1 lb flaked maize 
1 lb Cara Munich (DWC) 
1 lb Cara Vienne (DWC) 
5 lbs DWC pale ale malt 
 
Two step infusion (105 & 155 F) + mash-out decoction (~31-2 pts/lb/gal) 
 
23 IBU's bittering (EKG) 
1/2 oz EKG for 30 min 
 
OG(theor.) ~ 46 
FG ~ 15 
 
This recipe calls for 25% crystal malt and 12% flaked maize.  Is the level 
of crystal too high for the style???  Is flaked maize appropriate for this 
style?? 
 
I was considering using Wyeast Labs' Scotch ale strain for this. Any comments? 
 
I would appreciate ANY response regarding this recipe. Private e-mail is fine. 
 
TTFN  --<- at  
 
Russ Brodeur  (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com) 
Franklin, MA 
 

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From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace at mac)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:27 -0600
Subject: burnt taste

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
david asked about a burnt taste in his beers.  yeast autolysis is reported 
to smell/taste like burnt rubber.  could this be the problem?  how long/warm 
is the beer in the primary?  certain strains are more susceptible to 
autolysis than others, also.  does anybody have experience/info. on which 
strains are more likely to autolyze sooner?  this is the kind of info. we 
need to get out here. 
 
as an aside, it seems like i've not been getting the hbd as freqently this 
week.  i got a private email to a question i submitted, and i haven't seen 
the question appear in the hbd yet.  is this normal?  it's been 2 days 
since i last got a hbd. 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark bayer 

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From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 10:44:28 -0800
Subject: Ancient Egyptian brewing article

Since I haven't seen anything on it I'll post a brief summary 
of a recent scholarly article on ancient Egyption baking and 
brewing (Science, July 26, 1996; 273:488). It contradicts 
some of the findings from a previous study that have been 
often referred to on the net. It is my impressions that the chief 
difference between this study and the Anchor-related study 
(http://s-kanslia-3.hut.fi/SumerianBeer.html according to the 
brewery, I wasn't able to get in) is that the latter relied on 
written and pictorial records whereas the former directly examines 
the food residues. 
 
You can find the abstract and a description of the research 
at: 
http://science-mag.aaas.org/science/scripts/display/short/273/5274/488.html 
 
Note: I am liberally plagerizing this article without quotation 
marks to show where the original starts and ends. 
 
The author used light and scanning electron microscopy to examine 
bread loaves and beer residues.  The bulk of the arguments are made 
from SEM pictures of starch granules.  The form of the granules was 
used to infer how the grain was processed. 
 
Most bread loaves were made from emmer wheat (Triticum dicoccum Schubl.). 
Occaisionally other ingredients such as coriander and fig were found. 
Both emmer and barley (Hordeum vulgare L.) were used for brewing, 
sometimes separately and sometimes mixed together.  *No flavorings 
have so far been detected in beer residues.* By this I assume she is 
referring to the dates and lupins idea. 
 
Some grain in bread was found to have been malted, and at least 
some loaves were leavened. Husk material was generally absent from 
bread.  Unlike the bread, the beer residues had "large amounts of chaff." 
This seems to be spent grain from a statement later in the article, 
since yeast was not found here. The spent grain retained large quantities 
of starch showing the relative inefficiency of the process, but the 
author allows as the grain might have been reused for making of weaker 
beers.  The finding of unfermented, spent grain is seen as evidence of 
lautering. 
 
The author believes that a two-part brewing process was employed, using 
"coarsely ground, well-heated malt or grain and unheated malt."  I don't 
know exactly what she means by that.  What is interesting is that this 
is seen as in contradiction to the idea that lightly baked, well levened 
bread was used in brewing. 
 
The residues studied are about 3500 years old. 
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman 
mailto:jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu 
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb 

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From: Kris Grahn <kgrahn at sky.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 12:36:41 -0700
Subject: Kansas City Mo. Water Content

For those of you in Kansas City, I thought  this might be 
useful.  For everyone else, I appologize for the bandwidth. 
I called the KCMO Water Department Lab Services at 
(816) 454-7600 and asked them to fax me a copy of a water 
quality report for Kansas City,  Missouri.  I have retyped 
the names of the detected compounds as best as I could read 
them; The fax blurred the names. 
 
1995 Summary of Water Characteristics 
 
ORGANIC COMPOUNDS (VOC's--pesiticides, herbicides, etc.) in mg/L 
Alachlor (Lasso)         0.000016 
Aldicarb Sulfane         0.000003 
Atrazine                 0.000013 
Dibromochloropropane     0.000068 
Simazine                 0.000033 
Total Trihalomethanes    0.0175 
 
INORGANIC COMPOUNDS (mg/L) 
Antimony            0.001 
Barium              0.015 
Copper              0.005 
Fluroide            0.94 
Nitrate             1.65 
Nitrite             0.01 
Nitrate+Nitrite     1.66 
Selenium            155 
 
RADIOLOGICAL QUALITY (values in picocuries/liter) 
Gross Beta     3 
Radium 228     2 
Radon          8.2 
 
MICROBIOLOGICAL QUALITY 
Cryptospridia                 ND* 
Giardia Lambia                ND 
Hetrotrophic Plate Count:     ND 
Total Coliform                ND 
*ND=None Detected 
 
Turbidity (Clarity):  0.18 Turbidity Units 
 
SECONDARY STANDARDS (values in mg/L unless otherwise stated) 
Aluminum                 ND 
Chloride (mg/L)          27 
Color (Standard Units)   1 
Foaming Agents (mg/L)    ND 
Iron (mg/L)              .021 
Manganese                ND 
Odor (Threshold Odor #)  3 
Silver                   ND 
Total Disolved Solids    377 
Total Chlorine           2.89 
Zinc                     0.003 
 
ADDITIONAL PARAMETERS 
pH:                      9.6 
Ammonia                  1.11 
Ortho Phosphate          0.12 
Total Hardness           158 mg/L 
Calcium                  33.7 
Magnesium                6.72 
Sodium                   49.2 
Potassium                5.85 
Temperature              58.4 F. 
 
 
 

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From: Glenn Heath <GLENNH at tekecb.merix.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: TSP

I have read several times that you should not clean glass (bottles, 
carboys, etc.) with TSP.  On the other hand, a fellow homebrewer at 
work swears by it and has not seen any harmful effects.  Why would 
some people say not to use it?  Anyone out there experienced the 
negatives? 

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From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 16:41:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: huffing nitrous

from HBD #2131: 
 
> . . . Many partiers like to fill balloons with the NO2 
>and huff until their head spins (so I've heard).  It's the same as the 
>"laughing gas" you get at the dentist. 
 
There are several molecules or radicals that fit the generic description 
"nitrogen oxide".  Laughing gas is N2O. 
 
When *I* want NO2, I prefer to huff it directly from automobile exhaust 
pipes. :^) 
 
Greg King 
gking at arserrc.gov 
 

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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 02 Aug 96 20:13:56 EDT
Subject: Oak Chips

Brewsters: 
 
Some discussion on the use of oak chips varies from don't use them if they 
aren't  part of the profile of the type to OK if they are; to I didn't use 
enough , but it will take a long time in any event to get any aroma.  A final 
comment was that an HBDer had tried adding oak chips and the result  "tasted 
like plywood". Since these chips are wood only,  maybe that phenolic taste 
wasn't from the glue.  What was the pH of your sparge? 
Just kidding. 
 
I have used wood chips in making a "brandy". Lightly toasted french oak chips, 
12 oz to 5 gallons were just about right for this use because brandy derives a 
lot of its flavor and color from the toasted oak.  Color and taste of the wood 
increased for approximately 2 days in a small volume and then leveled off. The 
results were excelllent for brandy, but this level would undoubtedly be too 
high
for beer, as the oakey, toasted, vanillin taste would predominate.  So, I 
recommend that you start with 1) French oak chips 2) lightly toasted, either 
buy
them that way or toast them yourself.  If you do this in a gas oven,  remember 
wood is flammable, so plan ahead! 
 
If you can't get French oak from your HB supplier, then use American oak, but 
toast it lightly, otherwise you will have a concoction that will taste like a 
carpenter's shop floor. I suggest you put toasted oak chips in vodka or a 
higher
proof liquor if possible for a few days, then add the decantate to your beer, 
according to taste.. 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
 
Ken Schwartz asks about using cherries in his porter and their sugar content. 
Cherries are a natural product and their sugar content varies from type to 
type,
batch to batch, season to season, etc.  Ken if you don't have access to a 
saccharimeter used in winemaking, freeze them, thaw them, crush them, extract 
the juice through a piece of muslin and detemine the density ala beer. You can 
now do the calculations easily, since it is a simple dilution calculation.  To 
get enough liquid volume this way, depending on how many you used or the range 
of your hydrometer, you may have to dilute this with a known quantity of water 
and correct for the water added.  I suggest you ferment the cherries in a 
cylindrical container, about 3/4 full and covered with plastic sheet held in 
place with rubber bands using beer yeast. Stir the fruit down at least twice 
per
day. Ferment the cherries and beer separately until the cherries have quieted  
down (maybe three or four days or longer), decant and squeeze through a sterile
cloth to remove the pulp and seeds ( it is reported they give a somewhat 
almondy
taste in wine), then put them in the secondary or primary, if necessary. I have
used  the rapidly fermenting beer in the primary as a fluid put on the freshly 
crushed fruit.  That way I avoid ( or reduce) oxidation of the fruit and the 
subsequnt browning, have the same yeast and get a rapid start. 
 
As a crude estimate, it takes about 15# of grapes per gallon of wine.  This 
juice will have an sg of 1.110 or there about. Most fruits have about half this
sugar content. So go figure. 
- ------------------------------------------------------------ 
 
Keep on brewin' 
 
Dave Burley 
 

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From: "Robert Waddell" <V024971 at Tape.StorTek.Com>
Date: 3 Aug 96 20:01:00 MDT
Subject: backpacks at GABF? pt. #1

Collective: 
 
Please pardon my rantings, but is this a copy of a FAX that I just sent off 
to Marsha Schirmer, the GABF head honcho (FAX: 303-494-4146).  If anyone 
thinks that I am out of line, please reply via private E-Mail.  It may 
seem petty to some folks, but I feel very strongly about it.  This is one 
of the high points that I look forward to from year to year.  (Yeah, I 
may not have a life, but I got beer!)  #%^) 
 
**************************************************************************** 
 
>Marsha Schirmer 
>AOB 
>Boulder, CO 
>FAX 303-494-4146 
 
>Ms. Schirmer: 
 
>As a member in good standing of the American Homebrewers Association I am 
>compelled to contact you to express my extreme displeasure in one of your 
>rules stated in the recent literature I received concerning the Great 
>American Beer Festival.  The rule I am referring to is "No backpacks will 
>be allowed into Currigan Hall". 
 
>For the past several years I have spent over $200 at each festival just 
>for T-shirts alone.  I have collected many coasters from the various 
>booths and literature from each brewery represented.  I have taken books 
>in to have them autographed.  This was all accomplished through the use 
>of my backpack. 
 
>I can not picture myself trying to do this carrying around your little 
>"see through plastic bag" and still have any hands free to sample the 
>wares of the brewers of America! 
 
>Barry Fey has people at all entrances of his concerts to check bags, 
>blankets, and backpacks as part of his security force.  I was told by 
>one of your sycophants on the phone today that it would cost to much 
>money to have that kind of security at the GABF.  Hell, the entire 
>festival is being run by volunteers!  Get volunteer security people to 
>check that nobody is bringing in any guns, beer, or whatever! 
 
     (Barry Fey is a concert promoter in Denver, Colorado, USA) 
 
>I was told by the same person that "we" decided that it would be best 
>to implement this rule.  When she said "we" that included ME!  A paid 
>up member!  And I don't recall even being solicited for my input! 
 
>When she said that "we" could not afford that kind of security she didn't 
>realize the loss of income for the various vendors due to not being able 
>to carry their products and be able to sample beer at the same time. 
 
>As a member in good standing my position is to suspend this "anal retentive" 
>rule, at least for the members only tasting.  Why would any members try 
>to bring any contraband in or for that matter try to smuggle any beer out? 
>We've all got plenty of homebrew at home, and it's probably better than 
>anything being served!  I took second place in the "Capital District Open" 
>in the Belgian Strong Ale category last year...  I know mine is. 
 
>I know for a fact that I won't be doing ANY shopping in the festival 
>this year if I'm not allowed to bring my pack in, and I will personally 
>tell all of the vendors why, and who they can thank for it. 
 
>This festival is not Atlanta, it is not an international airline, it is 
>not the World Trade Center, it is not U. S. Marine barracks in a mideast 
>country, and I seriously doubt if any Third World country has any interest 
>at all in what we are doing to promote our hobby, craft, or just our taste 
>for quality brews and the paraphanalia that goes along with it.  I don't 
>think that any "Red Neck" malitia members would even dream of doing any 
>damage to what they probably hold very dear to their hearts. 
 
>YOU ARE HURTING THE VENDORS!  LOSE THIS RULE! 
 
>Yours in the Brewhouse, 
>Robert J. Waddell 
>V024971 at tape.stortek.com 
 

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From: "Robert Waddell" <V024971 at Tape.StorTek.Com>
Date: 3 Aug 96 20:03:00 MDT
Subject: backpacks at GABF? pt. #2

 
***************************************************************************** 
 
Following is the reply that I got from Sheri Winter, Marketing Director, 
that she "cc:" to Marcia Schirmer, Festival Director.  Marsha seems to be 
to elite to even answer her own mail. 
***************************************************************************** 
 
Dear Mr. Waddell: 
 
We have received your letter and regret that the Great American Beer Festival 
policy with regard to backpacks is so personally upsetting for you. 
 
In an attempt to clear up your many misconceptions, let me start by explaining 
that the *Great American Beer Festival is NOT a part of the American 
Homebrewers Association*.  When it was explained to you on the phone that "we" 
were forced to make this policy change, the "we" refers to the Festival 
Director and the Festival Board of Directors, acting upon the professional 
advice of our paid security force and the Denver Police Department.  The 
Festival is NOT a membership organization. 
 
While the Festival utiizes hundreds of talented volunteers, this is a large 
event attended by more than 25,000 attendees and requires a paid, professional 
staff.  An important part of that paid staff is the professional security 
and police presence.  It is their job to ensure that the Festival occurs 
each year without incident. 
 
As colorful as your descriptions of militia and terrorists may be, the 
actual reason for our policy change is far less glamorous: we are simply 
guaranteeing the continuation of the Festival by abiding by state liquor 
laws.  The police department and the security agency agree that back packs 
represent a substantial threat to our ability to envorce those rules.  In 
the past there have been several documented attempts by attendees to 
remove beer from Currigan Hall--even during the Members-Only Tasting.  The 
removal of beer from the hall is a violation of the law and would result 
in an immediate shutdown of the Festival.  This would mean no more Festival 
for anyone. 
 
The vendors and attending breweries have been made aware of the policy 
change and have in fact supported the policy as necessary to ensure the 
Festival's continued success.  I hope that you will agree that carrying 
a plastic bag from the merchandise booth instead of your back pack is 
preferable to not having a Great American Beer Festival at all.  While it 
is unfortunate that the actions of a few effect all attendees, that is the 
case with this policy as it is with so many others. 
 
In closing, your concerns have been noted but due to the reasons cited this 
is not an issue that we will reconsider.  If you personally find this rule 
intolerable we can only advise that you not attend the Festival.  We would 
be happy to refund your money if you have already purchased tickets. 
 
Sincerely, 
Sheri Winter 
Marketing Director 
 
cc:Marcia Schirmer, Festival Director 
***************************************************************************** 
 
As this is probably a volatile issue, the AOB and all, I think that any 
further thoughts on the matter be discussed in private E-Mail.  If I am 
being petty in my attitude or if you, also, are pissed about this, just 
drop me a line at my E-Mail address to talk it over, rather than clog up 
the HBD with my rantings.  Thanks. If I'm out of line I'll appologize, if 
there are any folks that support my attitude I'll post a summary.  Ms. 
Schirmer doesn't have an E-Mail address, so if you want any response from 
her yourself you'll have to use the FAX number. (And get a response from 
her flunkie!)  This whole response seems so "smarmy".  (Look it up.) 
I will respond to private E-Mail only to save space on the HBD.  You 
folks can discuss it there if you must. 
 
The AOB says that they want to know what their members think of their 
organization, so here's your chance to be heard.  I, for one, have a 
totally different opinion of them today than I had last week.  Just what 
division of this organisation is for us and which is just for the stock- 
holders?  I think Shawn is doing a bang-up job with the HBD but does the 
organization have ulterior motives?  Hmmmm... 
 
The Liberal view would be: If someone is breaking the law, shut down the 
whole Festival.  It must be societies fault.  The lawbreaker is just a 
victim.  Burn some incense, get them a healing stone, council them. 
 
The Conservative view would be: If someone is breaking the law, arrest that 
person, and prosecute him/her.  Proceed with serious beer tasting. FINI! 
 
Oh, yeah... I forgot... The AOB is in Boulder...  (Palm slapping forehead: 
KLUNK...) 
 
"Savor the flavor, responsibly." 
 
__ 
                            I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system.  'Cept for that 
                            gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it 
                            off the bed at night. 
                            Women... 
                                                    --Pat Babcock 
 
 
            *** It's never too late to have a happy childhood!  *** 
 
****************************************************************************** 
V024971 at TAPE.STORTEK.COM  / Opinions expressed are usually my own but 
Robert J. Waddell         / perhaps shared (though not by my employer). 
Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspieder Brew-Haus, Longmont, Colorado, USA 
*******************************************************************************
 

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