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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  Wood Beer (Tom Hotchkiss)
  Beer rating scales (Robert Virzi)
  Why not to boil grains (Michael Berry)
  various (florianb)
  Correction to prior posting (Gary Benson)
  Polstra, Lager, Steam Beer (Gary Benson)

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 89 8:06:54 MDT
From: Tom Hotchkiss <trh at hpestrh>
Subject: Wood Beer

I'd like to add my 2 cents worth to a topic that came up a few days ago.
Someone inquired about the use of wood chips in beer.  Well, I tried adding
some oak chips to Charlie P's India Pale Ale recipie.  I steamed the chips
about 15min. before adding to the primary fermenter.  I added a large
handful (probably more like 2 handfuls) to a 5 gallon batch.  When moving the
beer to the secondary 3 days later, I was afraid that a fat handful of chips
for 3 days wasn't going to do much.  So, I added another fat handful of
steamed oak chips to the secondary (the first set of chips was left behind
in the racking process).  I left the beer in the secondary for about 1 month
(I know, too long) and bottled.

Last night I tasted the first bottle and...

The combination of a dry, high alcohol (OG = 52, FG = 02), oaky beer nearly
knocks you over.  I'm pleased with the results but the oak flavor is too
intense.  So, if you try wood chips, I'd suggest using a modest quantity
on the first attempt since a lot of flavor comes out of those little
buggers.

Tom Hotchkiss

P.S.-  I don't know if this made any difference, but I steamed the chips
       using a small quantity of water.  When adding the chips, I also
       added the water used for steaming.  I also don't know how long you
       have to steam the chips, but it appears 15 min. was enough.

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 89 10:20:31 EDT
From: Robert Virzi <rv01 at gte.com>
Subject: Beer rating scales

Hi all!  I am planning on having a party soon, where all
the guests bring some exotic or unusual beer.  The idea is
to have a beer tasting, similar to that commonly done for
wines.  Some of the brews will be homebrews, others will be
of the store-bought variety.

My question is, does anyone have brew-related scoring sheets,
similar to those used for wine tastings but adapted to brews?
Typically, these sheets have the particular items-to-be-tasted
listed as rows, with characteristics-to-be-rated appearing as
columns.  The characteristics are things like color, taste, 
aftertaste, etc.  I suspect that these characteristics are
different for brews than for wine, for example 'hoppiness'
might well be included.  Does anyone know of a standard set,
applicable to a broad range of brews, that we could use?  If
so, please e-mail or snail-mail me.  I'll post a summary of what
I recieve if there is enough interest.

Bob Virzi
rv01 at gte.com

GTE Labs
40 Sylvan Rd
Waltham, MA 02254

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 89 08:38:56 mdt
From: Michael Berry <mcb at hpfcls>
Subject: Why not to boil grains

Andrew (Drew) Lynch <atl at ardent.com> asks:

> I have noticed quite a few people mentioning that when using whole
> grain malts, (crystal, chocolate, etc.)  that they should not be
> boiled, only steeped.  Where does this fit into the brewing process?
> What is the proper "steeping" temperature. And, most importantly, why
> not boil?

For the same reason that you don't boil the tea bags in the water - too many
tannins get into the brew.  When you make tea, you boil the water, take it
off the stove (or whatever), and let the tea steep.  The same should be done
with grains for homebrewing.

Michael Berry   ARPA:mcb%hpfcls at hplabs.HP.COM   UUCP:hplabs!hpfcla!mcb

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Date: 28 Jul 89 08:36:29 PDT (Fri)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: various

In  HB.DIG #212, Darryl Richman comments:

>Have you been to Merrie Olde Englande?  A pint of "Bitter" is not very,
>on average.  (The neat thing about having a zillion little breweries is

I agree with this.  The term "bitter" apparently applied earliest to the
hopped variety of ale.  But then Darryl comments:

>When the English found that they could grow quite nice hops, suddenly
>it appeared in everyone's beer.  (In fact, "beer" is supposed to be
>a contraction from "bitter".)  So, you could have ale or bitter.

Hold on a minute...According to Webster's, both "beer" and "bitter"
derived from the Old English, but from different words.  "beer" also  
appeared in the Old High German.  Certainly, beer was brewed long before
hops was added, and it looks as if it was called something like "beer"
long before hops was added.

:::::::::

There were several comments (mostly negative) from various people about
dry yeast.  I suppose I have to speak up in defense of dry yeast for the
following reasons.  First, it is simpler to use.  Second, it can be kept
in storage for months and still be utilized.  In addition, I have found
that Red Star Ale Yeast produces fruity (call it estery, stinking,
winey or whatever) tastes, which I happen to like a lot.  This taste
reminds me of the original Red Hook (which is rumored to be a mistake,
maybe they used Red Star in the beginning!), which is no longer available,
and which I would pay handsomely to taste again.  Besides, even if there
happen to be off tastes (which I have never noticed, and my friends have
never noticed in my ales), the product is still better than most     
commercial beers, and that's the bottom line, anyway!  If one has time,
money, and inclination, it's good to go to liquid yeast, but if not, then
dry yeast is a good compromise.

::::::::::::

Daryl Richman also adds:

>My only experience with an extract-brewing pub is two of the McMeniman's
>(Cornelius Pass, Raleigh Hills) and their beers seemed acceptable to me,
>although they were all a bit sweet and overly hopped.  (No, I didn't get
>to try Ruby Tuesday... I wasn't there on a Tuesday, I guess ;-).  I have
>had the same experience at mashing pubs as well.

(I'm not picking on Daryl, it's just that he raised some good points.)
My experiences with the brews produced by the McMeniman's would not
allow me to call them acceptable.  Incidentally, some nymnoid behind the
bar at the Cornelius Pass was blabbing on about how great the 
McMeniman's swill was, and in the process mentioned that they were 
mashing.  Who knows?

Finally, in HB.DIG # 213, John Polstra says:

>Just as a data point, I've taken homebrew as carry-on at least 4 or 5
>times.  There's never been any hassle with the security people.

Recently, I tried to bring back a 1-liter bottle of scotch from 
England.  When I got to Portland, I was really hassled about it.  They
even made me open the bottle and let them smell it!  On the other hand,
when I took a half case of beer back to a friend in Oklahoma, the 
security wanted to know what was in the carry on.  I said, "A whole 
bunch of beer."  They let me through without hassle.

[Florian Bell, Boonesborough, Oregon]

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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 89 09:12:04 PDT
From: hplabs!rutgers!fluke.com!inc (Gary Benson)
Subject: Correction to prior posting

This is a correction to my earlier submission to the Digest.

I mentioned a newsletter called "Noggins". It is actually "Noggins
Brewsheet".

I said it looked to be especially for homebrewers. Wrong again. It is a
monthly sheet put out by Noggins Westlake and Noggins Brooklyn Square,
which judging from the major part of the text are brewpubs here in the
Seattle area. Apparently they use the Brewsheet to disseminate information
about what beers they are brewing and featuring at their two locations.
There is a "Homebrewers Corner", which is where I got the information about
John Polstra and the Brews Brothers.

Finally, I said John had taken third place in the "Munich Ale" category of
the AHA competition. Actually his entry was in the Munich LAGER category.
The President of the Brews Brothers, took first in the British bitters
category and was overall winner in the Pale Ale classification.

Sorry about the misinformation - next time I won't try posting from memory!

--
Gary Benson, inc at tc.fluke.COM

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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 89 14:35:53 PDT
From: hplabs!rutgers!fluke.com!inc (Gary Benson)
Subject: Polstra, Lager, Steam Beer

Greetings --

Last weekend on the counters of two local homebrew shops (Libert Malt Supply
and the Cellar, both in Seattle) were copies of a single-page newsletter
called "Noggins". I had never seen it before, but it looks to be put
together specifically for area homebrewers. The issue I read extended
congratulations that I wanted to pass on to the readers of the HomeBrew
Digest. A regular contributor here, John Polstra, took a third place in the
Munich-style Ale category in the AHA competitions! According to the article,
John is a member of a local club, The Brews Brothers, another member of
which took a first place in Pale Ale I believe. Just wanted to pass that
along, and ask if John would post a little about the Brews Brothers, maybe
the prize-winning recipes (and some hints on technique!)

In a recent Digest, John was urging "florianb" to start using liquid yeast,
saying that it was the single most important contributor to his brewing of
fine beers. I'd be curious to find out other secrets to his success. I am
relatively new to homebrewing, and while my brews are usually better than
commercial decoctions, I can't yet call anything I've done a "fine beer".
But then I've only ever used dry yeast...

My last brew was my first attempt at a lager. I do not own suitable
refrigeration equipment, so I was hoping the cool Washington State spring
would cooperate. It did for a time - about 2 weeks of nearly continuous 55
degrees F in the garage, but just as activity was slowing down, it turned
warm (65 at night, 70 days). My timing was getting tight -- I was leaving on
a 2-week trip. I cleared out my food-fridge and put the carboy in there for
about 1 week at 40 degrees, then bottled. Now, after 1 month in the bottle,
there is a distinct sour component to the taste. Any ideas why? It was an
all-extract beer: OG 1060, FG 1020 (in fact, it was 1020 the whole time it
was in the secondary). It tastes and smells fresh, but I wonder if during
the 65 - 70 degree period I somehow got an infection? This is not a "cidery"
taste, just sour. A side note: a local micro-micro brew called Kuefner Brau
(which may be out of business by now) was VERY sour tasting the 4 times I
had it. It was kind of hard to get used to, but not really offensive when
the beer was REAL cold.

Anyway, right now I'm 24 hours into my first try at a "Steam Beer", and
wanted to check on something I was told...that this type of beer uses lager
yeast, but at ale temperatures. Is that correct? Are there other things that
differentiate Steam Beer? What kind of fermentation time am I likely to
experience -- like ale or like lager? The primary took off like a shot (Red
Star lager yeast started in 1 cup of wort plus a tablespoon of corn sugar).
But now, a day later, it has slowed down to one bubble every few seconds.
Last night, I couldn't keep water in the S-shaped airlock I use - the gas
was pouring out so fast. Is this thing going to be over before I have time
to go to the secondary fermenter? With this kind of activity, would I do
better to just forget the carboy and use a single-stage fermentation?

I am NOT worried, mind you. Even my limited experience tells me that it is
very difficult to do anything really *wrong*, that things usually work out
well as long as I maintain a reasonable level of sanitation and don't try
to rush things. This newsgroup has been invaluable in learning these
important lessons, and as usual, I thank all who contribute and especially
Rob Gardner, our fine moderator. 

Gary Benson, inc at tc.fluke.COM

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #214, 07/29/89

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