---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  So ... what stage are we in now? ((Michael Higuchi))
  pet bottles & stores (Alex Flinsch)
  High-acid beer? (michael j dix)
  Errrrr....explosive fermentation. ((J. Matthew Saunders))
  white film, autolysis ("Gregg A. Howard")
  dry stouts again ("The People, Jones")
  [none] ((Hank ))
  Need drinkin' Santa clipart ((MR BILL STOUGHTON))
  batch sparging / Gott cooler volume ("Keith Royster")
  A specific question about SPECIFIC GRAVITY (Dynamic_Don <")
  Who Elected You? (Derek Lyons)
  [none] ((Greg Douhan))
  5L mini-keg foam-a-rama (dbrigham at nsf.gov)
  Re: Sanitizing Bottles in the Oven ("Sutton, Bob")
  Re: Recipe requests (Don Trotter)
  chocolate beer (liquori at ACC.FAU.EDU)
  Length of Responses (Michael Caprara)
  Yeast Mutations ((Sean Cox))
  Recent batch - want opinions on changing (Michael Mahler)
  GABF getting more expensive (Kelly Jones)
  Re:  Beer & Food ("Decker, Robin E.")
  Zip City Lager (Narvaez Ronald)
  lactobacillus delbrueckii  (M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace at mac))
  Re: Receiving Homebrew Digest (Tortelooni at aol.com)
  5L Minikeg Summary (William D Gladden )
  HBD 2138 (William D Gladden )

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mhiguchi at ix.netcom.com (Michael Higuchi)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 23:55:05 GMT
Subject: So ... what stage are we in now?

If anyone is offendend by the waste of bandwidth, I apologize. 
That is to say, I'm sorry you feel that way! :P 
 
{Reposted from the Team Internet cycling list} 
 
THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE OF MAILING LISTS 
 
Every list seems to go through the same cycle: 
 
1.  Initial enthusiasm (people introduce themselves, and gush a 
lot about how wonderful it is to find kindred souls). 
 
2.  Evangelism (people moan about how few folks are posting to 
the list, 
    and brainstorm recruitment strategies). 
 
3.  Growth (more and more people join, more and more lengthy 
threads develop, occasional off-topic threads pop up). 
 
4.  Community (lots of threads, some more relevant than others; 
lots of information and advice is exchanged; experts help other 
experts as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships 
develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with 
generosity and patience; everyone -- newbie and expert alike -- 
feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and 
sharing opinions). 
 
5.  Discomfort with diversity (the number of messages increases 
dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader; 
people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person 
1 threatens to quit if *other* people don't limit discussion to 
person 1's pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3 
tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more bandwidth is wasted complaining 
about off-topic threads than is used for the threads themselves; 
everyone gets annoyed). 
 
6a. Smug complacency and stagnation (the purists flame everyone 
who asks an 'old' question or responds with humor to a serious 
post; newbies are rebuffed; traffic drops to a doze-producing 
level of a few minor issues; all interesting discussions happen 
by private email and are limited to a few participants; the 
purists spend lots of time self-righteously congratulating each 
other on keeping off-topic threads off the list). 
 
OR 
 
6b. Maturity (a few people quit in a huff; the rest of the 
participants stay near stage 4, with stage 5 popping up briefly 
every few weeks; many people wear out their second or third 
'delete' key, but the list lives contentedly ever after). 
****************************************************************************** 
 
LAUGH OF THE DAY - A service of LaughWEB 
(http://www.misty.com/laughweb/). 
 
 
[Michael Higuchi           :  PGP Key 0x004DCDA9 on key servers] 
[Costa Mesa, California    :                                   ] 

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From: Alex Flinsch <Sparrowhawk at worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 01:04:48 +0000
Subject: pet bottles & stores

After reading recent posts about PET bottles I kind of remembered buying 
Young's Ram Rod 
in 2 liter PET bottles about 8 or 9 years ago. I think i bought these in New 
Jersey, but 
it might have been in New York. Since it was a larger sized bottle, many of 
us in states 
with restrictive bottling laws might not have had access to these bottles. 
Does anybody 
else remember seeing this or am I just dreaming ? 
 
Also while shopping at a local pet shop a few days ago (cat food for Angus & 
airstones for 
the beer) I got a weird idea. There seemed to be many products in the shop 
that might be of 
use to homebrewers. 
 
Liquid stuff to remove chlorine & chloramines from water - if fish can 
tolerate the stuff 
after it has been diluted in water, can it be all that toxic? Could it be 
used for brewing? 
 
Aqurium heaters - could they be used to keep fermenting beer at a constant 
temp? It might 
be a cheap alternative to the brewing thermostat that was mentioned in the 
last digest. 
 
 
                                                     Alex 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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From: michael j dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 96 18:04:43 PDT
Subject: High-acid beer?

The quote from "Table Wines" on how well sulfites kill micro-organisms 
at a pH of 3 made me wonder how relevant this fact is to most beers. 
Although, I have had lambics tart enough to make my mouth pucker.  Have any 
lambic-style brewers measured the pH of their beers?  What is typical, 
high-low, etc? 
 
Mike Dix 

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From: saunderm at vt.edu (J. Matthew Saunders)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:20:02 -0400
Subject: Errrrr....explosive fermentation.

Collective, 
 
I felt the need to share my brew session with you folks and see what kind 
of feedback I'd get, whether others have had a similar experience. 
 
First of all, my primary is a 7 imperial gallon food grade pail. 
Secondly, I was making a porter. 
Thirdly I used a half gallon starter prepared from Wyeast 1318 (London Ale III)
 
I was delighted that after chilling, areating, and pitching, I could see 
action in the pail after a mere 60 minutes.  I've reduced lags quite alot, 
but 60 minutes knocked my socks off. 
 
I went to bed and woke up to a wonderful/nasty surprise.  I cover my bucket 
with sanitized food grade HEAVY plastic wrap.  It was puffed up close to 3 
inches above the lip of the bucket.  The beer's actual level is a good 3 
inches below the lip of the bucket.  (EGAD!  half a foot of krausen!!!) It 
was oozing over the lip onto the floor, which was by now quite messy. For 
the first time EVER I skimmed in desperation, trying to reduce the foam.  I 
would take the krausen skimmings to the bathroom to dump them only to find 
the level of foam back over the lip.  I did this three times.  I gave up. 
I put my brew bucket on a clean plastic sheet and went to work. 
Fermentation is all but finished now, a mere 20 hours after it began.  Lots 
of mess to clean up too. 
 
Errrrr is this typical of this yeast?  If so, and I decide to use this 
variety of yeast again, I need to re-think my primary fermentation. 
 
It smells GREAT tho. :) 
 
Cheers! 
Matthew. 
http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/S/saunderm/index.html/page_1.html 
http://dogstar.bevd.blacksburg.va.us 
"Minds are like parachutes, they both need to be open to work." 
 
 

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From: "Gregg A. Howard" <102012.3350 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 08 Aug 96 22:21:35 EDT
Subject: white film, autolysis

Peter asked about a white film following oven treatment of bottles. I had a    
somewhat similar experience with bottles in my (not especially clean) oven. The
irridescent film was from gunk vaporized from the walls and floor of the oven 
and deposited on the glass.  An overnight soak in a warm one tbsp/gal solution 
of dishwasher powder removed it. 
 
Al K's comment that he doesn't use a secondary for 90% of his beers leads me   
to try to jump-start a thread that never really got going a few months ago; is 
there any real benefit to be gained by racking to a secondary, other than 
avoiding autolysis?  My own experience leads me to believe that Miller, 
Papazian, et al might just be blowing smoke when they warn against autolysis 
setting in after a month or so in the primary. Has anyone actually had a batch 
go south due to autolylisized yeast? 
 
Gregg 
 
Gregg A. Howard    Denver, Co.    102012.3350 at compuserve.com 
 

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From: "The People, Jones" <ltjones at ipa.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 21:27:26 -0700
Subject: dry stouts again

I'm not sure if I am sending this leeter to the right address to be 
published in the newsletter but it was the only one I colud find or 
understand. If it is the wrong one would you please tell me the right 
one? 
Larry Jones 
ltjones at ipa.net 
 
About a week ago I sent the following message/question about trying to 
avoid malty vanilla aftertastes in extract brewed stouts. I received some 
nice replies in the digest newsletter but I forgot to add my E-mail 
address as some pointed out. I'd like if possible to resubmit the 
question with my address in order to receive replies and hopefully expose 
my question one more time to those who may not have seen it the first 
time. 
 
Larry Jones 
ltjones at ipa.net 
 
I have been trying for about three and half years to brew a dry stout 
that resembles the flavor of Beamish, Murphey's, or Guinness. They all 
three have that very bitter dry roastd barley flavor. Many American 
Micobrewed stouts have aftertastes of too much hops, too much malt, too 
sweet etc. I realize that nitrogenated heads change the flavor in ales 
but I have noticed that even in the Guinness and Beamish carbonated 
bottle versions that there is a distinctively dryer flavor. In all my 
attempts to homebrew such a stout I have usually been plagued by an 
aftertaste that is too malty or vanilla like. Here is what I have tried 
different after much advice to rememdy it still no success. 
 
I have tried both dry yeast and the Wyeast 1084. I have used various 
different stout kits and/or dark syrup malts. I have tried extra hopping 
and less. with aromatic hops and without. I have brewed at lower 
temperartures 65-70 degress too avoid ester fruit excessiveness. Longer 
and shorter fermentation periods watching and ignoring O.G and T.G. 
readings. In the various stout kits I have used Mount Mellick, 
Laagerland, Munton and Fisson, Black Rock. Rock Miner, Edme, Glenbrew, 
and John Bull hopped and unhopped extract. Still despite all this I get a 
brew that when it is put in the secondary fermenter taste like a good 
flat guinness or Beamish and especially right before bottling or piggy 
kegging but after bottling there is that sweet or malty aftertaste. I am 
careful about sanitation and have carbonated with too much, just right 
and too little corn sugar. What can I do to avoid the malty vanilla 
flavor? Some suggestions have been use only light extracts and get the 
dark color and roast flaovr from the specialty grains (I generally use 
about a pound of roast barely to a five gallon batch). The use of the 
light extract some say may cut down on residual nonfermetable sugars and 
other flavors left by dark extracts (how could a sugar not ferment with 
good yeast?) Does anyone have a suggestion on how to make a full extract 
brew that is free of the malty vanilla aftertaste? I know Guinnes uses 3% 
sour additive but that doesn't explain Beamish or murphey's. Has anyone 
noticed this flaovr problem with their stoput brewing? please either post 
a reply or better yet E-mail with the solution. I only wish to brew a 
stout or porter and one that is free of this aftertaste. I have done very 
little brewing in the last year and may well stop as long as I keep 
buying Guinness because I can't get close to it at homebrewing. Help 
please. 
 
Larry Jones 
Ft. Smith, Arkansas 
ltjones at ipa.net 

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From: hbienert at mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Hank )
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:15:54 -0500
Subject: [none]

My son has returned from 2 years in China and to celebrate I'd like to brew 
Tsingtao-any recipes? 
 

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From: ZXRF66A at prodigy.com (MR BILL STOUGHTON)
Date: Thu,  8 Aug 1996 22:33:38, -0500
Subject: Need drinkin' Santa clipart

- -- [ From: Bill Stoughton * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- 
 
I just finished bottling my Christmas stout (used 6# of raspberries, 
smells great!), and want to make an appropriate label.  I need clipart 
of Santa holding a mug, stein, pint, or similar drinking vessel.  Color 
or b&w is ok, any image format.  Please e-mail as a file attachment, or 
post to the alt.binaries.clip-art newsgroup. 
 
I will send to everyone who supplies me with a brew drinkin' Santa my 
entire collection of brewing related clipart.    Unless you're on 
Prodigy, please give me your snail-mail address so I can mail you a 
diskette with your reward. 
 
TIA, 
Bill Stoughton 
South Oak Brewery 
Austin, TX 
ZXRF66A at prodigy.com 
 
Save the Ales 

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From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 23:21:59 +0500
Subject: batch sparging / Gott cooler volume

I recently posted saying you should *always* leave an inch or so of 
water on top of your grain bed when sparging, otherwise the grain 
will collapse under its own weight and you'll  get a stuck sparge. 
To which Dion Hollenbeck responds... 
 
> I "batch sparge" and have *never* had a stuck sparge.  I almost 
> completely drain the lauter tun of the first runnings before 
> adding any sparge water. 
 
Apparently I know less about the sparging process than I thought. 
To be honest, I had never tried a batch sparge and was therefore not 
speaking from experience as Dion obviously is.  I simply thought I 
was repeating a widely known "fact" of brewing.  I apologize if I 
have confused anyone and will try to refrain from such statements in 
the future. 
 
Dion also asks.. 
 
> Did you somehow misunderstand, Keith?  Gott Cooler??  An 18# grain 
> bill in *my* 10 gal Gott is 4" from the top.  Where is there space 
> for another 10#??  How far from the top was your 20# mash? 
 
Me?  Misunderstand?  Never!  I was obviously referring to *metric* 
pounds ;) 
 
Keith Royster - Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com 
 at your.service - http://dezines.com/ at your.service 
 Web Services - Starting at just $60 per YEAR! 
  Voice & Fax - (704) 663-1098 

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From: Dynamic_Don <" dpearson" at ghgcorp.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 23:06:57 -0500
Subject: A specific question about SPECIFIC GRAVITY

OK, I think I understand what specific gravity is, but I have come across a 
question that I
don't 
seem to be able to solve... 
 
"A Treatise on Lager & Beers" notes that 1 pound mass of dextrose (corn sugar) 
equals 2 2/3
cups 
[alternatively 1 cup weighs 6oz], and that 1 pound dextrose dissolved in 1 
gallon water
gives a 
specific gravity of 1.040. 
 
The way I see it, 1 lbm of dextrose is 453.6 grams. 1 gallon of water is 3785 
ml of
water, 
weighing 3785 gm. So the total mass of the material is (453.6+3785)gm. The 
volume of the
resulting solution is 3785 ml plus the volume added due to you putting the 
dextrose in.
 
I've made a few measurements and found that 1/4 cup of dextrose increases the 
water volume
by 20ml. 
So 2 2/3 cups of dextrose should increase the water volume by 213 ml, and the 
resulting
total 
volume of solution is expected then to be about 3998 ml. 
 
The density is then the mass/vol = 1.060,  not 1.040 !!! 
 
OK, what went wrong? The dextrose dissolving measurement of 20ml was carried 
out at 26C,
close 
enough to the 60F that I don't need to correct for temperature. 
 
Please email replies to dpearson at ghgcorp.com -- mucho thanks-o for your 
comments.

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From: Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:09:09 -0700
Subject: Who Elected You?

"  I hate to do this, and will keep it VERY short.  PLEASE STOP USING 
     THIS FORUM FOR NON-BREWING ISSUES.  This IS NOT the place for 
     discussing the policies of the GABF, BATF, or anybody else! 
 
     I have sent private E-mails to offenders, but new people keep doing 
     this, and I can't keep up!  PLEASE STOP IT! 
" 
 
And just who elected *you* moderator of the digest? 
 
The HBD is for disussing issues of interest to homebrewers.  Sometimes that 
wanders pretty far afield. 
 
If you don't like it, UNSUBSCRIBE.  Or hit PAGE DOWN. 
 
But, never, never assume that *your* views and likes are the same as 
everyone elses.  Whatever you do, drop the arrogant 'I have sent private 
emails', you are not the moderator of this digest.  I wonder how many people 
you have scared off. 
 

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From: gdouhan at mail.wsu.edu (Greg Douhan)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:51:40 -0700
Subject: [none]

        I tink that Dave, Al, and the others at large involved in the 
digest should take a week long vacation to get to know each other and stop 
wasting space on the digest. Have you heard of private e-mail or is the ego 
thing too much? You guys know a lot of info but the soap opera crap gets 
old!! On the lighter note, and more to brewing, what's the scoop on wyeast 
1728? 
Greg Douhan 
 
 

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From: dbrigham at nsf.gov
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 08:16:21 EST
Subject: 5L mini-keg foam-a-rama

    Greetings fellow brewers - 
 
    I own the 'fancy' 5L CO2/hand-pump tap sold by Williams Brewing 
    and I have been using 'garden variety' 5L mini-kegs sold at the 
    local homebrew shop to store just part of my last few batches. 
    Well I just recently tapped my first 5L mini-keg and it came out 
    *all* foam!  Once the foam settled it was OK but a bit under 
    carbonated. 
 
    This particular beer recipe was an American style lager - light in 
    color/OG-SG with some rice in it.  At bottling I first added 2/3 
    cup corn sugar to the 5 gallons and filled one 5L mini-keg and 
    sealed it, then I added another 1/3rd cup corn sugar (the sugar in 
    both cases having been disolved) to the remaining beer and bottled 
    the rest in 12 oz. bottles.  Let everything sit at room temp for 1 
    week and then tested a few 12 oz. bottles - tasted great, nice 
    'spritzy' carbonation.  Now the 5L mini-keg went on vacation from 
    my home (near Baltimore, MD) to the Outer Banks of N.C. - almost 8 
    hours in the car.  I don't think it got *too* hot, I had the AC on 
    the whole darn way, but when we arrived I found the bottom of the 
    mini-keg pushed out by excess pressure, but no leaks.  Popped the 
    mini-keg in the fridge for two days and then tapped it using the 
    CO2 cartridge thingy - foam, foam and more foam.  Tasted fine once 
    you let the foam settle into beer, but it lacked alot of 
    carbonation at that point. 
 
    OK - too much corn sugar?  Too much heat during the trip?  Not 
    enough head space in the mini-keg (I left about 1/2 inch)? 
 
    All anecdotes/advice/discussion is eagerly welcomed - you can 
    email me directly at dbrigham at nsf.gov and I can post a summary to 
    the digest.... 
 
    Thanx!!! 
 
    Dana Brigham 
    Central LAN Management 
    National Science Foundation 
    dbrigham at nsf.gov 
 

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From: "Sutton, Bob" <bob.sutton at fluordaniel.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:58:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Bottles in the Oven

     >From: Steve Ensley <steve at globaldialog.com> 
     >Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:20:08 -0500 (CDT) 
 
     >I have occasionally seen comments about sanitizeing bottles by 
     >putting foil over the neck and stacking them in the oven and 
heating 
     >them up. What is the procedure for this.  Specifically how hot 
and 
     >how long? 
 
     Steve, 
 
     I run my bottles at 350F for 2 hours, but without the foil caps. 
     Generally I use the Time Bake feature on my oven and run the 
cycle 
     overnight. In the morning, I pull the bottles and cover the set 
with 
     plastic (Saran) kitchen film. Hope this helps. 
 
     Regards, 
     Bob 
 
     Fruit Fly Brewhaus 
     Yesterday's Technology Today 
 

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From: Don Trotter <dtrotter at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:24:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Recipe requests

 
How many of us give up our recipes? 
 
Seeing all the recipe requests in HBD doesn't make me feel well.  Can't 
any of the requesters develop their own recipes?  It really isn't 
difficult.  A little light reading and a little light math, or a recipe 
formulation program is all it takes. 
 
I for one have given a few recipes away to strangers, but will give no more. 
 
The beers I make are good -- all of my friends tell me so.  Shoot, 
Honorable mention and a First Place winners tell me so.  I don't know 
about you all, but I plan to enter many more competitions and would not 
like to compete against myself, err, someone else using my recipe. 
 
So, go ahead.  Give it a try.  Formulate you own.  Remember what ol' 
Charlie says, "Relax, ...."  You'll never know until you try. 
 
don 

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From: liquori at ACC.FAU.EDU
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:23:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: chocolate beer

First, thanks to everyone who responded to my queries on high gravity 
Bitter, shipping homebrew (UPS here I come), and hop storage (a jar and 
the freezer). Now if I could implore the help of the Collective once again: 
 
I am interested in brewing with chocolate. I assume that chocolate will 
only go well with a porter or stout. I want a brew that has a strong 
chocolate flavor and aroma (not just a hint). So far I have diligently 
searched my library and the Cat's Meow for an extract recipe using 
chocolate. I only came across one (Paul's Chocolate Porter in Cats) 
recipe so far (so it's not like I didn't try!)  :-) 
 
Anyway, does anyway have any good extract recipes using chocolate? Also, 
I read in Papazian's _Home Brewer's Companion_ that cocoa powder can be 
substituted for blocks of chocolate to avoid problems with cocoa butter. 
Any experiences with this? Finally, Does anyone have any anecdotal 
information or warnings before I get into this? 
 
Thanks in advance...Kevin 
   liquori at acc.fau.edu 

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From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara at awwarf.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:46:32 -0600
Subject: Length of Responses

Hello fellow HBDers.  I just had a thought, and hopefully I am not out of 
line here.  When responding to the HBD, there are a few of you that send 
these enormous messages with many different subjects.  Sometimes 
there is only one subject that I wish to read and I have to scan a large 
message to find what I am looking for.  All I am asking is that everyone 
try to send only one message per subject at a time. 
 
Just my $.02 worth. 
 
Brewfully Deadicated 
MC                                        :{P}   Man I hate to scroll! 
 

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From: scox at factset.com (Sean Cox)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 10:45:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Yeast Mutations

Greetings all! 
 
 I keep reading a fair bit in the Digest about yeasts mutating after 
n generations (where n varies widely).  What keeps bothering me about this 
is that the yeasts we have today are thousands of generations removed from 
the "first yeast" used to brew, and hundreds of generations removed from 
the first isolated strains, yet they're still useful to us. 
 
 My thoughts on this (obvious?) paradox is that the yeasts mutate more 
in the homebrew environment (today a porter, tomorrow a pale ale, etc) than 
in the commercial environment (always making the same thing).  Perhaps this 
is due to the yeasts (Darwinian) mutations to the current brew, i.e. they 
adapt to the conditions of the beer they're in, and when moved to a different 
environment, some of their mutations are no longer userful but might in fact 
be hinderances.  Thus, if you make a particular brew all the time, then you 
would likely not have to worry about mutations of the 50th generation of your 
beer, but if you (like most homebrewers) make everything under the sun, then 
your poor little yeasties are going to have real problems after a while. 
 
 My question to the collective is: Is this correct? Close enough? 
I'm not a microbiologist (as you can probably tell :) but it would seem to 
me that a single-strain/single-brew arrangement should last indefinately if 
the yeast take a liking to it (and you like how they ferment). 
 
 --Sean 
_______________________________________________________ 
Sean Cox, Systems Engineer     FactSet Research Systems 
scox at factset.com               Greenwich, CT 

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From: Michael Mahler <mmahler at shiva.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:19:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Recent batch - want opinions on changing

 
Here's the recipe: 
 
1 4lb can of Candian Ale Ironmaster kit 
2 lbs Wheat LME (Ireks, left over from weizen brew) 
1/2 oz Cascade boil (4.3% alpha) 
1/2 oz Cascade 15 minutes 
1/2 oz Cascade 5 minutes (flame off after 1 minute in wort then steeped) 
1/2 pound crystal (70 lovibond) male in seperate 1/2 hour 160 steeping 
 the water added to full boil 
1/2 tsp Moss last 15 minutes 
Wyeast 1056 (American) 
 
Just before bottling: 
 
2 pounds Strawberries into blender, then into 1 quart of boiling water 
then cooled and added to brew.  Fermentation went on for 2 WEEKS after 
that addition! 
 
Bottled: 
 
Used 1 cup clover honey added to 1 quart of boiled and covered water 
and let stand overnight with bottling next morning. 
 
 
Actually, it tastes very nice - however you can't detect any strawberry 
aroma, but just a slight bit of taste (not enough).  I assume I needed 
more since these were fresh ones (though overripe). 
 
The brew has a bitter aftertaste in the back of the throat/tongue. 
Almost like you'd get from a stout.  Did I overhop?  Is it from the kit? 
If you were to replace the canadian kit with LME and hops, what would 
you use (I want to try this brew again).  Also, the aroma is not as 
hoppy as I would like and is almost too "yeasty" (best I can describe), 
though this beer sat in the secondary for 1 month before adding the 
strawberries (and bringing the beasts back to life)... 
 
Anyway, it still tastes pretty nice after 3 weeks in the bottle! 
 
 
 
 
 

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From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:44:26 -0700
Subject: GABF getting more expensive

Attending the annual Great American Beer Fest has, for a long time, been 
the high point of the 'beer year' for me.  Although it's never been run 
very well (crowded hall, insufficient restrooms, long lines for beer, or 
to get in (or out of) the building, etc.), who could resist the 
opportunity to sample close to 1500 beers from 400-500 of America's 
finest craft brewers? 
 
One of the best parts of the Fest has been the Member's Only Tasting 
conducted on Saturday afternoon.  For years, this has been an 
opportunity for AHA/IBS members to sample some of the festival's beers 
in a more relaxed atmosphere.  This is the only session where you can 
get a sample without unreasonable waits in line, have a little elbow 
room in the festival hall, and get to talk to some of the brewers.  In 
years past, this session has been free to members (and one guest) who 
purchased a ticket to one of the GABF 'regular' sessions. 
 
Well, the 'non-profit' AOB, apparently sensing that an opportunity to 
make lots of money from their paid membership was slipping through their 
fingers, decided to do away with the free Member's Only Tasting.  This 
year, members of the AHA or IBS who would like to attend the Member's 
only tasting will have to pay $30 to get themselves and a guest in the 
door. 
 
It's really a shame that the AOB felt the need to try and squeeze a few 
more dollars out of their membership.  For 6 years now, the GABF has 
been a 'don't miss' event for me.  Although it's too late for me to get 
out of it this year (already have plane tickets), I'm going to think 
long and hard about whether this event will continue to be on my agenda. 
 
While I'm in rant mode, I have a question about 'designated drivers' 
tickets.  At many festivals I have attended, the use of designated 
drivers is encouraged: Those who attend as non-drinkers get free 
admission, and free soft drinks to boot.  The GABF, on the other hand, 
seems to try and discourage designated drivers.  Designated drivers are 
charged $15 admission, for which they receive absolutely nothing in 
exchange, except for the opportunity to, uh, stand around and watch 
other people drink. No soft drinks.  No tee-shirt.  No commemorative 
mug.  What are people's experiences with other festivals? Is anything 
done to encourage designated drivers? 
 
Kelly 

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From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 12:52:00 -0500
Subject: Re:  Beer & Food

 
Dave writes: 
 
>...I thought if I could incorporate the beer with the food, then I would 
really have something! 
 
Good thinking, Dave!  I'm not going to refer you to the books here, because 
that's been covered before.  Just keep in mind that any recipe that calls 
for water, can usually take broth, wine, or beer as a substitute.  You just 
have to use your head, you wouldn't put chicken broth in a beef stew, for 
example.  I have a very basic rule for trying beer in recipes....I start out 
by matching the recipe & the beer's country of origin.  I also believe that 
you should serve the same style of beer (not necessarily the same brand) 
used in the dish WITH the dish (Just MHO). 
 
Those beer braised brats you mentioned are yummy!  I usually use a dark beer 
here, with lots of sliced onions in the pan with the brats.  Serve over egg 
noodles that have been sprinkled with poppy seeds.  (German food, German 
beer). 
 
Marinate steaks in beer or in leftover wort.  I prefer stouts & porters for 
this, but my husband will use any leftover wort.  You can dress it up with 
pepper, garlic, or whatever strikes your mood, but plain works just as well. 
 BTW, your pale ale will make a wonderful steaming liquid for shellfish. 
 
Has anyone ever noticed how well a nut brown ale complements a perfectly 
ripe brie?  Divine! 
 
The only hard and fast rule here is the same as when using wine:  If you 
wouldn't drink it, you shouldn't cook with it! 
 
Goldings 
"I have to get off this planet" 

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From: Narvaez Ronald <RNarvaez at phs.org>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:51:00 -0600
Subject: Zip City Lager

 
I was wondering if anybody has heard of this beer. The full name on the 
label was " Zip City Lager, Zip City Lager Brewing company Vienna" I am 
intrested in getting a bottle of the beer for two reasons. 1) I want to 
try it, 2) I collect bottles and the beer is bottled in a cool bottle. 
If anyone knows where I can get this beer please let me know. 
 
Thanks 
 
Ron Narvaez 
 

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From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace at mac)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:53 -0600
Subject: lactobacillus delbrueckii 

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
i'm not sure that i qualify as a yeast geek, but i have read michael jackson's 
"the new world guide to beer" and "beer companion", and i think the answers 
to the delbrueckii questions are in there, if i recall correctly. 
 
peter wrote: 
 
>I was wondering if any yeast geeks out there could help 
>me with a terminology question. I have been told that the yeast species 
>Saccharomyces delbrueckii is the type typically used for fermenting of 
>Bavarian wheat beers. 
 
i think michael jackson writes that the yeast used for SOUTH german 
weizenbiers has no taxonomic designation at weihenstephan.  it's just 
referred to as a weizen yeast.  this seems odd. 
 
>Others have claimed that there is no such species as Saccharomyces 
>delbrueckii but that there is a species named Lactobacillus delbrueckii 
>which is used in fermentation of Berliner Weisse beer. 
 >Which is it? 
 
this is a bacteria, and it is used in berliner weisse during fermentation. 
this bacteria is NOT used in south german style weizenbiers in the same 
manner as it used in berliner weisse.  it is utilized by some south german 
weizenbier brewers in the mashing, when a reduction in pH is desired.  greg 
noonan is a big proponent of sour mashing, and has written about it in zymurgy 
and his lager books.  i have brewed a weizenbier using this method and it 
turned out pretty good, so i am now also an enthusiastic practitioner of sour 
mashing, for styles that have traditionally utilized it (including pilsner). 
there is an excellent article on sour mashing by mr noonan in a back issue 
of zymurgy if this has peaked anybody's interest.  i think it was one of the 
special annual issues, maybe 1992? 
 
 
>German scientist named Max Delbrueck.  What is his relationship to the 
>German immigrant and Cal Tech Nobel laureate Max Delbrueck? 
 
if memory serves (gotta bring those books to work, NOT!), they are related, 
according to his eminence, michael j.  can't remember exactly how. 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark bayer 

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From: Tortelooni at aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Receiving Homebrew Digest

Hi- 
I am interested in receiving your newsletters/posed questions etc., as I am 
an avid homebrewer. A friend of mine recently tried to forward your last 
"edition" to me but I am having trouble reading it. Please advise.... :-) 
 
          Yours,    Tortelooni at aol.com 

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From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 13:08:56 -0500
Subject: 5L Minikeg Summary

I asked for recommendations on 5L minikeg taps and got many 
responses (Thanks).  The responses fit 2 catagories. 
 
1) About half of the replies said they worked pretty well if used 
properly.  Recommend 16 (mg?) size cartridge for dispensing. 
 
the other half 
 
2)  Frustrated with them (1 to the point of returning to bottling 
... YIKES!).  Problems seemed to be mostly (if not all) pressure 
related (i.e. bulging/exploding minikegs, excessive foaming, 
can't control the amount of CO2 from the cartridge, etc...). 
 
The main reason for this post is to share the advice of richard 
scholz who wrote (I don't have a reader so no >> but this is 
retyped directly from his post). 
 
"St. Pats (Austin TX, no afil, blah blah) has a little device 
called "the carbonator" that originally was meant for the top of 
2liter soda bottles, but fits the 5L kegs perfectly, this allows 
you to use a tank of CO2 (much cheaper in the long run) to 
connect to the kegs for quick carbonation or dispensing.  It has 
threads on one end and a ball lock pressure fitting on the other. 
For the cost of the metal tap/CO2 bulbs you can go to full size 
CO2 tank." 
 
(end of quote) 
 
I haven't tried this, but it seems like one helluva solution ... 
functional and simple ... I just had to share with you all. 
Since CO2 tanks work off of regulators this may help some of you 
5L minikeggers who are frustrated with their performance. 
 
Cheers, 
Bill Gladden 
 

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From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 13:19:14 -0500
Subject: HBD 2138

Since I ask you all lots of questions, time to try to answer one 
online.  Kinda long, but at least its about beer :-)  In HBD 2138 
<Hettsmac at AOL.COM> writes about using blackberrys to make a fruit 
beer that: 
 
1)  Is not too sour; and, 
2)  Does not tie up the equipment too long. 
 
I've brewed 1 batch of fruit beer with very sour cherries that 
came out very well so now I'm an expert :-)  If you really want 
to do a Lambic ... scroll down ... this is for an ale.  An ale 
should not tie up the equipment too long.  Plus aren't Lambic's 
*sour* by style definition? 
 
Main points: 
 
1)  "Sweetness" in beer comes primarily from residual sugars that 
are not fermented (due to grains, mashing schedule and/or yeast 
strain).  I partial mash ... so I used Laaglander Dry Malt 
Extract for the extract part of the wort concoction (known far 
and wide for having more nonfermentables in it than most, if not 
all extracts dry malt extracts).  Also, I used 1 pound of U.S. 
Crystal Malt ... steeped (with other grains) at 165 for 30 
minutes then sparged and added to boil.  Crystal Malt is not 
fermentable and US Crystal is (IMHO) kinda on the sweet side so 
it worked well for the purpose of balancing out the sourness (as 
well as body etc...). 
 
If your into all grain, I'd still use some crystal and refer back 
to recent HBD's where, if I remember correctly (a 50-50 
proposition) there was discussion and agreement? on the 
temperature of the mash and its impact on the final beer as 
related to fermentables v. unfermentables. I think (there I go 
again) that it was mashing at a lower temp => more unfermentables 
in the final wort.  Don't take my word for that though. 
 
2)  The Yeast.  I'd go with an ale yeast.  The last two batches 
of ale I have used Yeast Lab (hey ... it was on sale!).  1st one 
was the German Ale...it *definately* accentuated the malt flavor 
- -- you may want to use this yeast as the malt accent would take 
the edge off of the sourness of the fruit.  For my Cherry Ale I 
used the Londen Ale Yeast because I wanted the cherry flavor to 
blend with this "fruity" yeast for a veritable cornucopia of 
flavor sensations.  And loe and behold it did! 
 
3)  Fruit:  Of course probably most important is how sour the 
fruit is to begin with.  Also time of fruit addition is a key 
factor. 
 
I steeped the cherries for 15-20 minutes in the wort after I 
finished boiling (1 hour and 15 minutes) and kept them in the 
primary for 2 weeks ... fermentation seemed to have stopped and I 
racked to a secondary.  I figure steeping the cherries pasturized 
the fruit which I wanted to do. 
 
I've heard that adding fruit to the secondary makes the fruit 
flavor much more prominent than adding the fruit in the primary. 
It has been said that adding the fruit for primary fermentation 
results in a beer that isn't as fruity as some brewers have 
desired (something along the lines of when you smell all that 
wonderful fruit bouquet coming out of the fermentation lock it is 
also taking that flavor with it). 
 
Anyway ... I added 80% of the fruit I had frozen in the primary 
and held back the other 20% just in case I wanted to "beef up the 
fruit flavor" by adding it somehow to the secondary (either 
directly ... or steeping it/pasturizing it - and adding the 
strained liquid to the secondary).  I figured it is easier to add 
more (at the secondary stage) than lessen the sourness later. 
 
Hops.  Not too relevant to getting a good sweet/sour balance but 
I'd highly recommend those Noble types ... I used German Trad. 
Hallertau whole. 
 
There are so many variables (fruit, grains, yeast, time of 
addition of fruit) that it really is a crap shoot but you can 
increase your odds of success by considering the above.  That's 
the main info. I learned from reading up on it and giving it a 
whirl. 
 
I am ecstatic with how mine came out.  Hope you are with yours. 
 
Cheers, 
Bill Gladden 
<W_GLADDEN at MAil.Co.Chester.PA.US> 
 

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