---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  small bottles/sparge gap/yeast at priming time ("David R. Lubar")
  Homebrew Internet Relay Chat (IRC) (Mike Kidulich)
  Fizzy Barleywine, Typo, Mash Temp ("David R. Burley")
  Weight vs. Volume ((DON CHASE))
  Sorghum != millet? ((John W. Braue, III))
  Canada & hangovers (TEX28 at aol.com)
  Minnesota Brewfest Homebrew Competition (Steven Piatz)
  Silly Brewing Mistakes ((John A DeCarlo))
  Polyclar ((David W Dr. Whitman))
  Summer brewing  (Rick Willoughby)
  Calculating CO2 saturation levels (Alex Santic)
  Secondary ferment question (David Cummings)
  Dip'n Drain Efficiency (Dave Greenlee)
  re: HSA/Pump, LPG cylinder weight, Old yeast ("C.D. Pritchard")
  effect of inorganics on taste (TMCASTLE at am.pnu.com)
  flaming lips (M. Jagger? I think not!) ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  Redhook dating question ("Bridges, Scott")
  Second triple decoction ("John M. Posing")
  Mash-in Techniques (AJN)
  Style suggestion request (([Michael Otten]))
  SPAMM Problem/Limit posting (Domenick Venezia)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David R. Lubar" <75211.2665 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 07 Sep 96 11:10:20 EDT
Subject: small bottles/sparge gap/yeast at priming time

re small bottles: Bud makes returnable seven-ounce longnecks. They come 35 to  
a case.  Hard to find, but easy to empty.  I had to call around.  Most places 
don't bother carrying them.   It's an extremely cute bottle.  (Side note:  at 
first I felt funny asking dealers, "Got anything cheap that comes in a small 
brown bottle with a pry-off cap?"  But everyone I approached was friendly and 
helpful.  All you have to do is ask...) 
 
sparge gap question: I sometimes spend a lot of labor based on assumptions that
may have no basis in fact. (This might actually be part of the definition of a 
good hobby.)   My latest obsession involved narrowing the gap between the 
strainer and the outer bucket in my zillion-hole spraging system.  Does anyone 
know whether the amount of water below the strainer makes much of a difference 
in extraction rates?  Assume that I'm sparging until I hit a certain gravity 
rather than a certain collected volume. Does it really matter whether there is 
one gallon or one quart beneath the grain? 
 
yeast at priming time:  My first barleywine is carbonating *very* slowly.  For 
the second batch, I washed the yeast I took from the primary.  I want to add 
some back when I prime.  Several questions.  Should this yeast be put in a 
starter first?  Is there any danger of overcarbonation in this method?  If 
fermentation stops because the yeast has reached it's alcohol tolerance, how 
does adding yeast of the same strain produce more fermentation? 
 
Thanks 
David Lubar 
Nazareth, PA 
 

Return to table of contents


From: Mike Kidulich <mjkid at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 12:07:18 -0400
Subject: Homebrew Internet Relay Chat (IRC)

Greetings, brewers! 
 
This post is to invite those with Internet access to join us in the IRC channel
#Homebrew. This
is a friendly channel devoted to the discussion of beer and brewing. All are 
welcome. You will
need an IRC client, in addition to your Internet access. The channel is located
on the Effnet IRC
network. Below is a (partial) list of Effnet servers. (My apologies for the 
length, but a server
list is a Good Thing (tm) when you are trying to connect to a channel). The 
channel is usually
open, and the main operator (HiThere) drops in from time to time. If you get 
in, and no-one is
talking, just hang out for a while. People drift in and out. 
 
If you need more IRC info, or need to download an IRC client (software), go to 
http://www.neosoft.com/~biscuits/ 
 
They have beginner FAQ's and links to software. (mIRC is the client of choice 
for most IRC folks)
 
Join us online, and raise a glass with us! We would really like to get more 
traffic on the
channel. Hope to see some of you there. Feel free to email me with questions. 
 
Mike Kidulich 
 
(nickname brewn) 
 
irc.cerf.net 8 [128.195.7.77] Irvine CA, behind the orange curtai 
irc.stanford.edu 7 [irc1.cerf.net] CERFNet IRC Server, San Diego, CA 
irc.cdc.net 5 [208.129.64.25] offer void where prohibited 
irc.cdc.net 5 [206.126.32.101] It's Pea-nuttier! 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 Internex Online 
irc.lightning.net 10 [luna.gate.net] CyberGate Inc.   -*Gateway To Good 
irc2.magic.ca 11 [icewall.vianet.on.ca] [204.50.187.50] ViaNet Inte 
irc.lightning.net 10 [199.166.230.68] Toronto Client Server 
becker1.u.washington.edu 9 [irc.nsysu.edu.tw] National Sun Yet-Sen University 
irc.lightning.net 10 [204.168.13.13] Dart In Your Leg Productions 
irc.lightning.net 10 [128.59.68.35] Columbia University IRC 
becker1.u.washington.edu 9 [206.148.240.14] Lightning Internet Services 
irc.best.net 8 [140.142.12.67] [UW] Saltwater does not chase the 
eff.org 6 [205.197.247.96] Digital Express Group 
irc.stanford.edu 7 [obelisk.ucdavis.edu] University of California, Da 
eff.org 6 [kitten.mcs.com] MCSNet Services - +1 312-803-MCS1 
azure.acsu.buffalo.edu 7 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY, USA 
eff.org 6 University at Buffalo, Buffalo NY, USA 
bazooka.rutgers.edu 5 [132.236.56.9] The CIT IRC 
irc.stanford.edu 7 [irc.calpoly.edu] The  Speedboat  server that  run 
eff.org 6 [36.55.0.50] In the Heart of Silicon Valley 
bazooka.rutgers.edu 5 [204.253.162.3] Electronic Frontier Foundation, Sa 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [bazooka.rutgers.edu] The 5 cent piece of gum hold 
irc.best.net 8 [203.120.37.250] Singapore Internet Community IRC 
irc.blackened.com 7 [206.86.8.69] Best Internet Communications 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [205.164.64.254] Penance suits you 
irc.ipro.se 7 [supersunic.gd.gu.se] Gothenburg, Sweden 
irc.ipro.se 7 [195.148.144.5] Dark and more dark 
irc.homelien.no 6 [193.45.79.93] Internet Pro IRC server 
irc.cdc.net 5 [194.19.4.206] Who Cares 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [draco.voicenet.com] Voicenet EFNet Server 
irc.blackened.com 7 [192.195.240.139] Blackened/Tucson Interconnect cl 
irc.blackened.com 7 [irc1.primenet.com] IRC Services 
irc.blackened.com 7 Primenet - Phoenix, AZ (but it's a DRY heat!) 
ircd.texas.net 6 [192.195.240.63] Binge & Purge (Tucson, AZ) 
irc.magic.mb.ca 6 iSTAR's Canadian IRC Server 
irc.colorado.edu 5 [irc02.irc.aol.com] America Online EFNet Server 
irc.umn.edu 5 [206.173.136.204] Concentric Internet Services 
irc.magic.mb.ca 6 [newsagt.cadvision.com] Calgary Alberta, Canada 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [droopy.colorado.edu] Univ of Colorado Server (2.8 
irc.mcgill.ca 5 [130.63.104.34] York University's IRC Server 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [dewey.cc.utexas.edu] We are now all  piglet  
irc.magic.mb.ca 6 MBnet IRC Server 
irc.mcgill.ca 5 [general.magic.mb.ca] Canadian Client & Hub Server 
irc.mcgill.ca 5 [134.153.1.2] Memorial University of Newfoundland, 
irc.mcgill.ca 5 IRC at the speed of Alpha 
irc.mcgill.ca 5 Polytechnique de Montreal, Quebec 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 McGill University, Computing Centre 
ircd.texas.net 6 [129.186.202.53] Iowa State University Alternate R 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 Board Of Governors, Educational Computing Network 
irc.cdc.net 5  Emory University  -/- Hotlanta GA 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [thor.cmp.ilstu.edu] Illinois State University 
irc.umn.edu 5 [136.142.185.34] University of Pittsburgh 
irc.cdc.net 5 [204.253.4.200]  BridgeNet  with an Alpha twist 
irc2.tc.umn.edu 6 [160.94.196.193] Univ of Minnesota IRC test server 
ircd.texas.net 6 Phoenix Data Net - Houston 
irc.umn.edu 5 [160.94.196.192] Univ of Minnesota IRC test server 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 University of Minnesota IRC server <CSr24> 
irc.cdc.net 5 PSI Net Main EFNet Client Server 
ircd.texas.net 6 [206.109.6.193] NeoSoft - We're doing it in Texas 
ircd.texas.net 6 [localhost] Jupitered 
irc.cdc.net 5 [206.127.0.130] Texas Networking Routing Server 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 chattanooga data connection, inc. 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 Yale College IEEE IRC server 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [141.211.26.105] The White Horse 
irc2.uiuc.edu 4 [192.17.7.229] University of Illinois at Urbana-Ch 
ircd2.netcom.com 3 [128.174.5.43] University of Illinois Routing Serv 
ircd2.netcom.com 3 [199.183.9.7] (3) NETCOM Online Communications Ser 
ircd2.netcom.com 3 [199.183.9.7] (2) NETCOM Online Communications Ser 
ircd2.netcom.com 3 [199.183.9.7] (1) NETCOM Online Communications Ser 
ircd.netcom.com 2 [199.183.9.7] (H) NETCOM Online Communications Ser 
ircd.netcom.com 2 [206.217.29.1] (3) NETCOM Online Communications Se 
ircd.netcom.com 2 [206.217.29.1] (2) NETCOM Online Communications Se 
irc-1.netcom.com 1 (H) NETCOM Online Communications Services, Inc. 
irc-1.netcom.com 0 (1) NETCOM Online Communications Services, Inc. 
* End of /LINKS list.  
- -- 
Mike Kidulich 
mjkid at ix.netcom.com  mjk at rfc.comm.harris.com 
DNRC Minister of Home Brewing, Relaxation, and Really Cool Toys 
Holder of Previous Knowledge O- 
 

Return to table of contents


From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 07 Sep 96 12:19:04 EDT
Subject: Fizzy Barleywine, Typo, Mash Temp

Brewsters: 
 
Jerry Cunningham asks how long it will take to produce fizzy barley wine with 
2/3 cup of corn sugar.  It could take as long as infinity, but probably some 
friendly or not so friendly bacteria will help themselves to the sugar and 
maybe
the other carbohydrates, eventually, if the yeast is inactive or dead. 
 
Barleywine and mead have many problems in common if you are trying to carbonate
them.  If the alcohol content is over 10% and the nutrients depleted you will 
have a very difficult time getting it started, especially with beer yeast. 
 
Champagne is generally fermented to below 10% in the first fermentation, 
charged
with sugar and a *fermentting* yeast solution made from the base wine and 
sugar,
capped and allowed to carbonate before disgorging the yeast via riddling, etc. 
I recommend as I did the other day on a similar mead question, to prepare a 
small potion of the barley wine with the fresh yeast and see if it will ferment
(probably it won't based on your experience). If so, use this krausen-style to 
innoculate other bottles.  If no fermentation ensues, try using a champagne 
yeast like Prisse de Mousse now called, by Red Star "Champagne yeast" I think, 
to carbonate your wine as the beer yeast may not be able to get much above 8-10
% in most cases. But use the above krausening procedure. Still problems? then  
try ading a little nutrient and see if that helps. 
- ----------------------------------------------------------- 
Hugh in Ft Collins points out what he thinks is a typo error in Greg Noonan's 
book based on my quote the other day. I take full responsibility for the error.
It should read "six-ROLL malt mills" not six-row malt mills as I incorrectly 
transcribed. Guess what I was thinking about!   But they do sound a little 
alike. Say six roll malt mill three times, real fast. 
 
Thanks Hugh. 
- ----------------------------------------------------------- 
Randi you can increase your beer's body by increasing the mashing temperature. 
If you are using highly converted malts, skip the lower T holds and go directly
to 155-158F in a single infusion mash. Otherwise, do the 122F and 135F holds to
increase the soluble proteins and reduce gums, etc. and get a better head and 
mouthfeel, but shorten them up from your current practice. Don't sparge at too 
high a temperature or you may solubilize unconverted starch. Make sure the exit
temperature of the spaged wort is around the mid 160s F, but not higher and 
that
when you add in the fresh hot water to the sparger that the sparge water at the
top of the column is about 167-170F. 
- ----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Keep on brewin' 
 
Dave Burley 
 

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From: wchase at alpha.utampa.edu (DON CHASE)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 12:36:22 -0400
Subject: Weight vs. Volume

I have been following the discussion on measuring priming sugar by weight 
rather than volume.  I have found that 3/4 cup just wasn't enough for me, 
so I use a full cup.  My question is: What is the proper amount of priming 
sugar by wieght? I could just weigh a cup of my sugar, but I would like a more 
definative answer. 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Chase                      |  Hombrewing : the only sport open exclusively 
Objectivist...Businessman...   |               to anal-retentive alcoholics. 
Homebrewer.                    |  Relax...have a homebrew. 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 13:39:03
Subject: Sorghum != millet?

In going through older mail before deleting it from the drive, I 
noticed that "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> wrote 
in HBD #2166: 
 
>I was cruising through Zymurgy, Summer 1996, Vol 19 Number 2. I noticed on 
page
>83 in the "Dear Professor" column that the professor said that Sorghum is the 
>same as Millet. Boo! Send the prof back to grain school. Millet is Panicum 
>miliaceum and Sorghum is Sorghum vulgare. I think I read this same identity 
>comment in someone's book (maybe Pap?) but it is not true. 
 
I haven't seen anything else on the sorghum vs. millet identity 
crisis, but it's worth commenting that sorghum *is* often 
(mis)called "millet".  "Millet" is, in common parlance, one of 
those vague terms (like the British use of "corn") that tends to 
mean "any substance that is like, but really isn't, a cereal".  As 
a parakeet owner, I have encountered three types of "millet", two 
of which the parakeet won't eat, and one of which *nothing* in this 
neck of the woods seems to be willing to eat (including the tree 
rats). 
 
If you intend to brew sorghum beer, buy "sorghum" and not 
"millet".  If you buy the latter, you could end up with a bag of 
birdseed. 
 
- -- 
John W. Braue, III                     braue at ratsnest.win.net 
                                       jbraue9522 at aol.com 
 
I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work 
miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified. 
 

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From: TEX28 at aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 15:21:10 -0400
Subject: Canada & hangovers

Greeting fellow Brewers- 
 
Just back from a most pleasurable trip to Canada. After many nights of 
sampling the many brews Canada has to offer, both micros and the 'biggies', 
in relatively large quantities (we only had a week!), we realized that we 
always awoke the next morning feeling refreshed & energetic - no hang-overs! 
We also noted that most if not all Canadian brews contain no preservatives, 
and are labeled so. Do 'preservatives' cause hang-overs, or was it just the 
refreshing Canadian atmosphere preventing them? What is it in U.S. mass 
produced 'brews' that often destroys the following morning and why would it 
be in there - a government plot to suppress the working man? (NO, I'm not a 
militiaman - yet.) 
 
Hey Canada, thanks for an incredible vacation; beautiful, clean, friendly, 
Terrific Beer. Make room for another couple citizens, please! 
 
Thanks also to all who post to HBD - you have helped immeasurably in my 
pursuit of outstanding Beer. As I am a relatively novice brewer, I hope to 
return the favor some day. 
 
Chris Pertschi 
Future Canadian stuck in King of Prussia, PA 

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From: Steven Piatz <piatz at cray.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 14:28:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Minnesota Brewfest Homebrew Competition

The 5th Annual Minnesota Brewfest is on October 6th, 1996. 
 
There are 14 categories that contain most of the common styles.  There 
will be gold, silver, and bronze medallions for first, second, and 
third place in each category in addition to other prizes.  For a 
discription of the past Minnesota Brewfests see Michael Jackson's 
column in the most recent issue of Zymurgy. 
 
Entries need to be delivered to Sherlock's Home between 11:00 AM on 
Monday, September 16 and 6:00 PM on Sunday, September 22.  Contact me 
(piatz at cray.com) for a copy of the category descriptions.  Send your 
entries to: 
 
 Sherlock's Home 
 11000 Red Circle Drive 
 Minnetonka, MN 55343 
 (612)-931-0203 
 
The entry fee is $7.50 per entry, 3 bottles are required. 
 
The Best of Show judging will be conducted under the tent at Sherlock's 
Home on Sunday, October 6, 1996 at 3:30 PM.  Michael Jackson, the world 
famous beer hunter, will be the featured judge at the best of show 
session.  As usual Watson will be the master of cermonies for the awards 
presentation.  Best of show judging will be done live, in front of the 
crowd.  The winner of best of show will have their name engraved on the 
William Rahr memorial trophy. 
 
If you are interested in the single malt Scotch tasting lead by Michael 
Jackson on the afternoon of October 5th you should check with 
Sherlock's Home for reservations on or after September 30th.  The event 
is usually a sell-out. 
 
Steve Piatz 

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From: jdecarlo at juno.com (John A DeCarlo)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 15:21:11 EDT
Subject: Silly Brewing Mistakes

OK, since the request for posting things you wish you never did is out, 
here is my main one. 
 
Crushing grain with a rolling pin. 
 
I have had wonderful partial-mash brew recipes that came out nowhere near 
what they were supposed to.  Porters that were more like Negro Modelo, 
etc.  Turns out I was *never* able to get my grains crushed with that 
rolling pin.  I remade lots of those recipes after I got a roller mill 
and found worlds of difference. 
 
So, I now recommend the crush at the supply store (no matter how bad), or 
the use of something better at home.  *Big* difference. 
 
John DeCarlo, jdecarlo at juno.com, Arlington, VA 
 

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From: David_W_Dr._Whitman at rohmhaas.com (David W Dr. Whitman)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:56:38 -0400
Subject: Polyclar

In HBD#2175, Dave Burley reposts a very nice discussion of clarifiers: 
 
     >Polyclar reacts with the catechins (a type of polyphenol or 
     >tannin) which removes it from the playing field and it can't 
     >hydogen bond to the proteins. This hydrogen binded complex 
     >between tannins and protein makes them less soluble 
     >and appear as chill haze.  Dave Miller( H'Book of HB, p 193) 
     >uses tremendous amounts of polyclar (up to 1/4 cup per 5 
     >gallons) - but see below.   I propose that this quantity is so 
     >large because he suggests using Polyclar and Bentonite 
     >together. 
 
At one point I did an experimental design on using PolyClar and irish 
moss to kill off chill haze.  I found irish moss to be much more 
effective than Polyclar at reducing chill haze.  When I built a linear 
model of the responses, I ended up predicting that it would take about 
1/4 cup of Polyclar to eliminate the chill haze  in my IPA. 
 
I ended up using an optimized level of irish moss to solve my problem, 
but at least in my hands, Dave Miller's suggested use level for 
Polyclar seemed about right.  YMMV. 

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From: Rick Willoughby <rickw1 at mail.idt.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 23:11:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Summer brewing 

Where do all the brewers go in the summer???? 
Rick Willoughby 
 
 

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From: Alex Santic <alex at salley.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 01:59:34 -0400
Subject: Calculating CO2 saturation levels

I've just spent a few hours searching through the HBD archives and I've = 
finally given up. 
 
Could have sworn I recently read about the formula for calculating the = 
volume saturation level of CO2 in wort according to temperature (and = 
pressure?). I'm refining an Excel brewing worksheet in which I've = 
included a priming calculator. Currently it does a lookup of dissolved = 
CO2 volume vs. temperature using the table published in David Draper's = 
noteworthy article, but it would be more elegant and interesting to = 
incorporate the formula to calculate this value. 
 
Can anybody provide guidance? 
- -- 
Alex Santic - alex at salley.com 
Silicon Alley Connections, LLC 
527 Third Avenue #419 - NYC 10016 - 212-213-2666 - Fax 212-447-9107 
http://www.salley.com 
 
 

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From: David Cummings <woodstok at rupert.oscs.montana.edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 11:01:45 -0600
Subject: Secondary ferment question

Howdy all, 
 
Since the recent thread seems to be all about blow-off and secondary 
fermentation i figured i'd ask sort of a silly question.  I always rack from 
the primary to a secondary within a few days after the major fermentation 
has subsided.  When the beer is in the secondary the only thing that happens 
is that the yeast/trub settles out (if it hasn't already) and there is no 
actual "secondary fermentation."  Am I doing something wrong, or is this 
typical of most "secondary fermentations?" 
 
Sounds like a crazy question, but i just had to ask. 
 
Dave 
 
Life's a beer, 
Brew it up! 
 

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From: Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 20:37:26 -0700
Subject: Dip'n Drain Efficiency

I think that I've resolved this issue already, but I'd like y'all's 
thoughts on the matter (yes, I'm a Texian). 
 
First, the foundation:  In the various malt grain charts the potential 
extract figures of the various types of brewing grains are given.  These 
have to be reduced by your brewhouse's efficiency if you want to predict 
the original gravity a particular grain bill will produce. 
 
Second, the global presumption:  When translating a recipe from all-grain 
to extract one presumes, unless stated otherwise, that the brewer had a 
75% efficiency. 
 
Third, the question presumption:  The following question presumes that 
(i) you're using grains which _must_ be mashed, but (ii) not in such 
quantities that it makes sparging really necessary, i.e. you're trying to 
obtain the special qualities of the grain, not necessarily their sugars. 
 
The question:  If the average brewhouse efficiency with a mash-and-sparge 
is 75%, what would be the average efficiency with a mash-and-squeeze, 
that is, the extract brewing technique wherein one mashes one's grains in 
a grain bag, but instead of sparging them, you merely dip and drain them 
a few times, then squeeze the bag?  Would it be as low as 50%? 
 
I think the real answer is that in the small quantities I'm talking 
about, that whether it's 25%, 50%, or 75% that the grains aren't going to 
change the o.g. by more than a couple of points and that in most cases 
it's not going to make any difference. 
 
But what in those cases where it does? 
 
 
Nazdrowie, 
Dave 
 

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From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at mail.chattanooga.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 1996 21:43:28 +0700
Subject: re: HSA/Pump, LPG cylinder weight, Old yeast

Ken Koupal asks re. pumping hot wort: 
>Is Hot Side Cavitation the same problem as Hot Side Aeration? 
 
No. I suspose some air could come out of solution in the low pressure region of
the pump but, the air was in the wort to begin with. Cavitation occurs when the
fluid encounters low pressure regions within the pump. Some of the liquid boils
and produces water vapor (steam) bubbles. Steam won't hurt your wort. These 
bubbles then collapse when they encounter higher pressure regions within the 
pump. Cavitation is much more likely when you're pumping a hot fluid since it's
closer to boiling. The problem with cavitation is that it reduces the pump's 
efficiency and, if it persists, will erode the pump impeller. For us 
homebrewers, I doubt the later would be a real problem given the relative 
infrequent usage of our pumps.
 
>Let's see, air (aeriation) shouldn't be introduced at the pump... 
 
It will be present unless you arrange the piping (especially the suction side 
piping) so that air pockets aren't formed. Large pumps have an automatic air 
release valve at the top of the impeller housing to bleed off air which is 
trapped in this region of the housing since the trapped air reduces pump 
efficiency. I never worry about the air trapped in my relatively small RIMS 
pump since the volume of trapped air in this part of the pump is only about 1 
in3 and I've never detected any HSA.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
John Wilkinson wrote: 
>I would recommend weighing before filling and writing that weight on 
>the tank with a permanent marker. 
 
This is called the "tare weight" is required by the ASME code to be stamped on 
a propane cylinder's valve protection collar. It usually appears as "TW" 
followed by the weight. John does have a good point about weighing empty tho'- 
you can use the cylinder's stamped tare weight against the reading on the 
scales to tell how accurate your scales are. I think it's also stamped on steel
CO2 cylinders since it's used to assess cylinder corrosion.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
Jim Hust wrote Re: Old yeast: 
>I saved some yeast then by washing the dregs from the bottom and 
>putting in sterile mason jars.  The "yeast" has been in the 
>refrigerator since March or April. How do I know if it is good?  I 
>assume I shold make a starter and if it begins action I am O.K.?  Is 
>there a way to know?  Smell, taste? 
 
You're on the right track. Make a starter and taste and smell the results. 
It'll obviously be yeasty but it shouldn't be offensive. If it's OK, pitch it. 
Tasting and smelling the starter is a good practice even if you don't have 
doubts about the yeast- it's SOP with me.
 
c.d. pritchard  (cdp at chattanooga.net) 
     web page:  http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html 

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From: TMCASTLE at am.pnu.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 08:20:42 -0400
Subject: effect of inorganics on taste

 
  Hey, 
 
  Some time back, Dave Burley wrote the HBD theorizing how certain 
  inorganics in various ionic and oxidation forms could influence 
  taste.  I responded via private email, but at Dave's request am 
  displaying my note for all to gawk.  I submit it as follows: 
 
  ------- 
 
  Hi Dave, 
 
  This isn't my area so I'm replying privately so if I'm wrong then 
  I'll appear as a fool to a much smaller audience. 
 
  I think when you're trying to figure out taste sensation, you really 
  need to look at it from a biochemistry angle and not an inorganic 
  chemistry angle.  You might remember that sour and bitter and sweet 
  sensations come from different regions of the tongue, although, 
  presumably, the substance is in contact with the entire tongue.  So, 
  we could speculate that inorganic molecules may behave similarly 
  where certain ions have an affinity for specific taste receptors and 
  pH has only a mild effect on binding due to the buffering capacity 
  of saliva. 
 
  I don't know.  Sounds good, though (!!???) 
 
  Tom Castle 
  The Zen of Homebrew 
  http://www.netcom.com/~tmcastle 
 
  ----- 
 
  Dave was hoping he could arouse some discussion on the subject. 
 
  -- tom, Richland, MI -- a suburb of Kalamazoo (if you can believe 
  that) 
 
  PS  AOB lists MI as a state where homebrewing is illegal because the 
  word "beer" was not included in the legislation that allows hard 
  cider and winemaking for home use.  We do have homebrew shops, 
  though.  Is my beer ruined?  Any Michiganders, Michiganians, 
  Michiganites, or whatever we're called out there know if the 
  legislation was updated or is it just being ignored as an oversight? 

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:46:04 -0600
Subject: flaming lips (M. Jagger? I think not!)

   John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas  asked about flaming lips,...of flasks 
and such.   This one has been tossed around b4 and you'll likely get some 
pretty wacky theories.  So here the REAL story (at least IMHO-  YMMV). 
 
        In using proper asceptic technique in microbiology labs it is 
common practice to pass the mouth of a just opened flask or test tube 
through the flame of a bunsen burner, or alcohol lamp in order to create a 
positive airflow out of the vessel so that nasty microbes do not have an 
opportunity to enter.  This relies in part on the perioud of time the test 
tube is open to be rather brief. 
You generally do not want to heat it long enough to actually heat the glass 
so much as just to cause the air to push briefly outward. 
        In transfering solid or liquid cultures the technique follows as such: 
(depending on right/left handedness- assume here right)  Hold the two 
culture tubes to be used to transfer from and two in your left hand, 
parallel with your outstretched fingers, but upright!  Brace the tubes with 
your thumb  (hold your hand in a position as if you were about to toss a 
ball straight up into the air. Now raise your fingers slightly so they 
point upwards.  Tilt slightly, 45 degrees or so,  Rest the tubes along your 
fingers. ) Sorry- I am NOT going to attempt an ascii drawing!  Just ain't 
gonna happen! 
        Hold your inoculating loop in your right hand like a pencil. Flame 
the loop till red hot, cool slightly.  Now using your most dexterious 
finger, the pinky- wrap it around one or both caps and remove caps.  Pass 
tubes through flame, pick up culture onto loop, you may want to stick it 
into the agar to cool if using solid medium, if liquid,- relax, no worries 
mon  -, move loop to fresh medium and spread culture or agar, or swirl 
gently.  Reflame tubes and recap. 
Alternatively you may find it easier to open one tube at a time, pick the 
culture, close tube, open medium tube, inoculate, close.   The real trick 
here is to remember to flame when the tube is first open, then flame before 
it is closed.   As- almost goes w/o saying- work in a draft free 
environment.  As clean as can be- away from kitchen, bathroom, musty 
basements,  basically choose the cleanest spot in your house, and before 
working with cultures- spray down the surface with a bleach solution, or 
EtoH, or lysol. 
 
        As for working with flasks- if you are pouring plates what you want 
to avoid is having a drip form on the lip, flow down the outside, then back 
up to the lip carrying a world of nasties along for the ride.  Here is 
where you can be a bit more thorough in your flaming.  You will do best to 
use pyrex for such a task.  You don't need to heat the glass red hot, just 
think about how long your cells can stand to be exposed to a flame before 
they burst and rupture.  It don't take much- this comes from a kid who once 
fell on a BBQ chasing balloons at a party- trust me!  A quick pass, with a 
slight pause in the heat will suffice. 
        Use even less heat when pouring a culture from a flask because you 
don't want the culture to be "ruptured" as it passes over the lip of the 
flask into your fresh wort.  A very good idea is to avoid -tipping the 
flask to pour, then turning it back upright- that drip thing, ya know.   If 
you are pouring into multiple vessels from one flask keep it horizontal as 
you move from one to the other. 
 
        You can use use flame to heat sterilize an inoculating loop 
(nichrome wire) till it glows.  Alternatively you can dip it in ethanol 
then pass it through the flame to light the EtOH.  Make sure it all burns 
off.  Works well for glass rods- sterile w/o overheating. 
 
                I hope this helps somewhat.  Maybe someday I'll get some 
photos scanned and post them on my web page.  Maybe someday I'll have a web 
page on which to post them!  Check out a basic microbiology laboratory text 
for more details and techniques.  ( I used to teach such a class, FWIW ) 
 
 
 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
///  John-    The Cosmic Coyote   -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com 
'As long as he's got 8 fingers and toes, he's ok by me!' H.J.S. 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
 

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From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 08:46:00 PDT
Subject: Redhook dating question

 
 
For those of you who remember my post a couple weeks ago about Redhook 
freshness dating, here is the reply I got directly from Redhook......... 
 
[an excerpt of my post] 
>My local grocery store (here in Columbia, SC) recently started carrying 
>Redhook products.  I snatched up a six pack of the ESB 2 weeks ago.  I 
>noticed that the bottom of the six pack carton had "12/95" imprinted in it. 
 
> Thinking that I had just paid for 9 month old beer, I got steamed.  On a 
>more recent trip to the store, I saw the A-B distributor guy restocking, 
and 
>I asked him about the dating.  He pointed out the "best consumed by" date 
on 
>the bottles, which said 11/6/96.  He didn't know anything about the date on 
 
>the carton, but felt confident that the beer was fresh since our local 
>Columbia market just started carrying it. 
 
[now the reply] 
From: Redhook 
To: Bridges, Scott 
Subject: Re: Redhook dating question 
Date: Thursday, September 05, 1996 5:37PM 
 
Dear Scott, 
 
The dating on the six pack carton is the date that the package was created, 
not the date that the beer was bottled. The best before date on the bottle 
is the date the beer will stay fresh 'til; if the beer is keep refrigerated 
it will last for weeks after the best before date. When the beer is bottled 
it is given a best before date 110 days after it was bottled. So if your 
beer bottle says 11/6/96 then the beer was bottled on Friday, July 19. 
 
Cheer's 
 
Damiano - Redhook Ale 
 

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From: "John M. Posing" <jmposing at colint.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 09:04:01 -0500
Subject: Second triple decoction

I did my second triple decoction on a Czech pils yesterday, and boy are 
my feet tired. A little over 6 hours for the mash. I got a OG of 1.046 
from 16 lbs of grain for 12 gallons. 34.5 points ain't to shabby. I got 
32 points on my last attempt and it sure is tasty. This time I used the 
authentic Czech Pilsner 3-mash schedule from Randy Mosher's The Brewers 
Companion. Great book for anyone who doesn't have it in their brewers 
library. I used Wyeasts 2278 for both. On my first attempt the sulphur 
smell produced during fermentation had me a little concerned, but it 
vanished during conditioning. If anyone wants to try this schedule and 
you don't have the book, let me know. 
    Cheers 
- -- 
John M. Posing 
jmposing at colint.com 

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From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 09:38:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mash-in Techniques

Here's an idea for getting the water into the grain without starch 
balling. (maybe) 
 
Put a hose, that reaches to the bottom, into the empty mush-tun, add the 
crushed grain or grind into the tun, connect the hose to the hot water 
tank and add the water.  This way the water rises from the bottom. 
 
Since I'm a extract brewer, I haven't tried this, just a thought.  Any 
all-grainers out there willing to experiment? 
 
_________________________________________________________________________ 
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com 
 

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From: motten at fcmc.com ([Michael Otten])
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 96 11:27:02 EDT
Subject: Style suggestion request

Hey, 
 
I have several important events/milestones rapidly approaching, and I 
would like to celebrate the arrival of each with an appropriate brew. 
I am a relatively new brewer and have only 3 extract and 7 or 8 
all-grain batches under my ever-expanding belt. :^( 
 
I have the capacity to lager 8 cornys at a time (more if I use a 
friends fridge too), so lager suggestions are more than welcome.  I am 
hoping to brew beers which are appropriate for the time of year as well 
the occasion.  The "events" are as follows: 
 
1.      SO's 30th B-day in early November. (No pumpkin suggestions, 
 please) 
 
2.      The birth of Assistant Brewer # 2 in early March (but I've a 
 feeling it will be between Feb 20-28). 
  
TIA for any help/suggestions.  Private e-mails are fine. 
 
Prosit! 
 
Mike Otten 
Connetquot Brewing Co. 
East Islip, NY 
motten at fcmc.com 

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From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 08:25:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SPAMM Problem/Limit posting

 
The incidence of SPAMM on this digest, as it is across the whole of the 
Internet, is increasing.  I remind you of the Viewmaster and VGA SPAMMs of 
last week.  This problem is going to simply get worse and worse as the 
Internet is brought down to the level of the least common denominator, as 
have television and the postal system.  We can do something very simple to 
protect our little corner for a little more time. 
 
Restrict posts to subscribers only. 
 
Frankly, I don't care about any whining arguments about "inclusivity", or 
fairness or open access or attitude or political correctness.  Frankly, I 
don't care if 200 or 2000 or 20000000 people have their posting privileges 
revoked.  If one wants to participate then simply subscribe.  Come on 
people, this is a no-brainer, we're not asking for your first child here. 
The number of SPAMMers that will take the time to subscribe is miniscule - 
these slimey, lazy, cowardly, gonadless, miscreants are looking for fast, 
free, exposure at the public expense.  If the HBD can be read and posted 
to without subscribing, then what makes it any different than a newsgroup? 
If, in fact, we want newsgroup functionality (I don't)  then why are we 
putting Shawn through all this grief, work and expense?  If we want 
absolute inclusivity then let's simply terminate the HBD and all 
participate in rec.crafts.brewing. 
 
Please don't email me personally about this.  This is an issue for the 
whole group, and if you have something to say, then share it with the 
whole group.  Or let Shawn know what you think (shawn at aob.org).  Perhaps 
we can come to some agreement on this. 
 
Domenick Venezia 
Computer Resources 
ZymoGenetics, Inc. 
Seattle, WA 
venezia at zgi.com 
 
 
 
 

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