---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Re: The Definitive Oktoberfest (Bill Rust)
  Re: Brewing  Beers Like Those You Buy (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
  Malt Liquor ((A. J. deLange))
  40C rest / streamlined all-grain (Dave Whitman)
  Re: Brewing Beer Like Those You By book ((Jacques Bourdouxhe))
  Oktoberfest ("William D. Knudson")
  Re: Scorching  (Spencer W Thomas)
  sanctioning ("Bryan L. Gros")
  RE:  Sammy Adams Homebrew comp. ((George De Piro))
  No sparge mashing (John Wilkinson)
  RE: They moved whilst you were at school, son... (AJN)
  Classic American Pilsner (Jeff Frane)
  Burlington Brew Pub Question (atlantis at vgernet.net)
  beer brite etches glass? (DownAPint at aol.com)
  malt liquor (Todd.Etzel at ccmail.eos.lmco.com)
  Blue Moon Pumpkin Beer??? (shane at cais.cais.com)
  Hoffa-brau ("Pat Babcock")
  RIMS: pump control (Marty Purselley)
  Converted Keg Strainer (Andy Dixon)
  RIMS heating alternative - no scorching ? (Ian Smith)
  California Common Yeast ? ((MR PAUL G KURJANSKI))
  Re: Sammy Adams WHC (tm) (The Holders)
  hop storage/priming and yeast/Biscuit malt/leaking keg ((Algis R Korzonas))
  UUCP command execution failed (nuucp at ihig2.firewall.lucent.com)
  Micro-unfriendly distributors ie, Anheuser-Busch ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  Decoction Method (greg at chtree.com)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:16:48 -0400
Subject: Re: The Definitive Oktoberfest

Greeting Brewmeisters, 
 
I had to come out of my pre-marital lurk mode to add my $0.02 on this one... 
 
>From: Tom Lombardo <favt3tl at rvcux1.RVC.CC.IL.US> 
>Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:40:52 -0500 (CDT) 
>Subject: the definitive Oktoberfest? 
> 
>OK, I don't know much about the Oktoberfest style.  I just picked up a six 
>of Sam Adams Oktoberfest.  I know Sam is usually an "Americanized" 
>(watered down) version of most styles, so I'm asking, what commercial brew 
>is to Oktoberfest  what Guinness is to Stout? 
 
I'd have to vote for Spaten's version.  Nicely balanced, malty, appropriate 
color, packs a punch.  I just tried Pete's Wicked version.  Not bad, but I 
don't think it typifies the style. 
 
Skol. 
 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                          | Research has shown that good yeast growth 
 Bill Rust                | depends on certain fats in the wort. These 
 Master Brewer            | can be produced by yeast if well aerated, 
 Jack Pine Savage Brewery | but one alternative was to sling in the 
 http://www.i1.net/~wrust | occasional vermin.          - KEITH THOMAS 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 

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From: Jacques Bourdouxhe <bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:33:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Brewing  Beers Like Those You Buy

Re: Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy 
MadAntBrew at aol.com wrote: 
> My question is , are these outdated ingredients? Does brown sugar add some 
>wanted character to these beers as opposed to being cidery.I can'timagine 
>adding saccharin to beer, I know it won't ferment and will add residual 
>sweetness but I think I'll stick to crystal or cara-pils. Any thoughts or 
>experience with these recipes or ingredients?
I bought the book about 8 years ago. It was fun to read, and made me start to 
brew and appreciate pale ale. The problem is not with the kind of 
 

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From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:49:39 -0500
Subject: Malt Liquor

All of the factors mentioned by Tom Brouns & Anne Daugherty & Zoe Brouns in 
the post on beer/malt liquor pertain here in the US i.e. "malt liquor" is a 
designation required by some states for any beer with alcohol content above 
a certain level. In some states such a beer must be called an "ale". Other 
examples of such foolishness abound. One sometimes sees a European import 
labeled "Malt Liquor". 
 
Foreign breweries do license domestic breweries to make and sell their 
products in this country. The brewery saves the costs and degradation 
problems (which are very real) of shiping across the pond but the products 
are seldom anything like the European (or Australian) products with the 
same label. 
 
Finally, European breweries often produce beers especially for export. 
These may be toned down in alcohol content to get around US labeling 
regulations or modified to better suit perceived American market 
preference. For example some German breweries use adjunct to lighten their 
exported beer. This would not be acceptable to the majority of German 
drinkers (and was, up to recently, a contravention of the 
Biersteuergesetz.) 
 
Also see Mike Spinelli's post in the same HBD. 
 
A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! 
ajdel at interramp.com 
 
 

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From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:46:34 -0700
Subject: 40C rest / streamlined all-grain

40C Rest: 
For about a year now, there has been intermittent discussion about 
George Fix's 40/60/70 mash schedule.  The low temp step is supposed to 
raise yield, perhaps by allowing time for enzymes to get extracted at 
low temperature, before enzyme deactivation can occur. 
 
Just one more data point in support of the 40C rest.  I've been 
consistantly getting about 28 pt*gal/lb in recent batches, but adding a 
30 minute/40C rest boosted my yield to 32 pt*gal/lb, a 14% improvement. 
The batch is fermenting now; I'll report on fermentability and (more 
importantly) taste when it's done. 
 
Streamlined All Grain: 
I've been working on ways to streamline my brew day, and I'd like to 
share a small wrinkle that worked out well for me. (Hey, when trying to 
simultaneously brew and mind a 2 year old, every little bit helps). 
 
I normally collect 6.5 gallons of wort and boil down to 5 gallons 
(maximum volume for my boil pot and carboy respectively).  On my latest 
batch, I adjusted my grain bill up so that I expected the same OG after 
boiling down to 5.5 gallons. This shortened my boil time by 30 minutes, 
and gave me an extra 1/2 gallon of wort I could discard. 
 
Before branding me as a heretic for throwing out proto-beer, here's my 
rationale: I'd been fussing for at least 15 minutes trying to get that 
last bit of wort away from a mass of hops and hot/cold break, risking 
infection by mucking about in cool wort.  Now I can just swirl and 
siphon off clean wort, and not worry about a little good stuff left 
behind with the spooge. 
 
Cost:     1 lb extra grain 
Benefit: 45 minutes, less contamination risk and cleaner wort 
 
The real kicker is that with the yield improvement I got using a 40C 
rest, I didn't need the extra grain - my OG turned out higher than 
expected.  Of course, the 40C rest cost me 30 minutes of time...but that 
way lies madness. 

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From: bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:22:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Brewing Beer Like Those You By book

Hi everyone, 
Sorry for the previous incomplete message about the subject. 
I bought that book about 8 years ago and it was one of the few homebrewing 
books available.It was fun to read, containing a lot of recipes and made me 
want to start to brew Pale Ale. 
The problem is not with the ingredients called by the recipes ( of course, 
forget about saccharin ), some brown, demerara, inverted or turbinado sugar 
can add some interesting flavour to an ale ( Old Peculier uses molasse ). 
In my (humble) opinion, the problem is with the high amount of sugars used 
in the recipes. 
If you want a high final gravity, don't use saccharin but use a higher mash 
temperature, or use dextrin powder (is it what they call malto-dextrin ?). 
A more recent and similar book is published by the Campaign For Real Ale 
(England) and the title is: Brew your own real ale at home. 
Check if CAMRA has a web page. 
I hope this help. 
 
Jacques 
From Montreal 
 
 

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From: "William D. Knudson" <71764.203 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Sep 96 14:15:59 EDT
Subject: Oktoberfest

Tom asks about the quintessential commercial example of Oktoberfest. 
 
You bet I have my opinions about Oktoberfest. Actually sometimes I think there 
is no such thing. 
 
If you go to Munich and ask for Festbier in September you get a strong beer the
color of which is Gold.  If you go to Oktoberfest, no matter which brewer, the 
beers are all in the same ballpark.  It's a lighter color than the other and 
lower in alchohol.  I've shocked many with my description as being somewhere 
between an export and typical american draft beer. 
 
The stuff shipped here from germany bears no resemblence to the others I've 
described. Although I'd have to say that Spaten is my favorite. I like to brew 
with german malts: Vienna or Vienna/Munich combo using 20 to 30% two row base. 
 
My point is that there is no broader class of lager that Oktoberfest, there is 
no Guiness like example. 
 
Bill 
 

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From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:19:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Scorching 

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> writes: 
 
    Steve> There was such an article with lab test in Brewing 
    Steve> Techniques, and the amount of Aluminum in the beer was 
    Steve> acceptably small IMO (YMMV). 
 
The amount of aluminum in the beer was almost identical to the amount 
of aluminum in the brewing water. 
 
    Steve> Why isn't everyone using it ?  Because sankes are vitually 
    Steve> free. 
 
Not if you get them legally. :-) 
 
 

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From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:29:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: sanctioning

Bill Giffin says: 
>>>>Randy Reed asks: 
>Finally, my question to the collective: If a competition breaks the 
>rules set down by the sanctioning organization, whether AHA or BJCP,  is 
>anything ever done by the sanctioner to correct the situation? How are 
>repeat problems identified and avoided in the future? Is there any 
>policing 
>of quality? 
><<< 
> 
>$3 or $4 and a sanction from the AHA  will get you a pint of beer.  A 
>sanction from the AHA has no policing or correction policies.  Talk about 
>a toothless tiger!  Remember the AHA  helped in the organization of the 
>WHC as well as providing the sanction. Surprise, surprise! 
 
The AHA also supplies forms (when they sanction) for judges to 
"evaluate" the competition and for the organizer to "report" on 
the competition.  What happens to these forms when they are mailed 
back to the AHA? 
 
According to the instructions, part of the purpose of the organizer's 
report is to list the judges and stewards so (their names can be 
forwarded to the BJCP and) they can receive experience credit. 
Another part is for advice to the organizer the following year-- 
are these comments actually sent back the following year? 
 
Bill, is the BJCP sanctioning any different? 
**** 
 
Thanks again to Shawn for all his work in "janitoring" this 
digest.  Good luck. 
 
          - Bryan 
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu 
            Nashville, TN 
 

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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:01:26 -0700
Subject: RE:  Sammy Adams Homebrew comp.

     Hello, 
 
     Michael Caprara writes to complain about the judging quality at the 
     BBC contest.  While I agree that there were problems with the judging, 
     some of them were NOT the fault of the judges. 
 
     I judged specialty beers at that comp.  MANY of the beers lacked 
     descriptions, making them VERY difficult to judge ("Here's a mystery 
     beer.  Tell me what it is, and if it's any good.").  At first I 
     thought this was the fault of the entrants, but when a friend of mine 
     received his score sheets back, he noted that there was no description 
     of his beer on the sheet(usually it will be written on the sheet by 
     the judge), even though he knew that he wrote a description on the 
     form! 
 
     It seems that the organizers did a bang-up job again this year (refer 
     to my earlier post about how they botched my entry last year). 
 
     My point is, don't blame the judges, and certainly don't insult them 
     unless you know for sure that it was their incompetence that resulted 
     in a poor score.  The judges I worked with all seemed quite competent. 
 
     Also, don't enter that contest and think that you're going to win! 
     They are looking for MARKETABLE beers.  The best beer (by far) that I 
     had that day was an Indian Spiced Brown ale.  The spices were a tad 
     overdone, but it was a very good beer beneath it all.  The second 
     round judges validated my feelings (they sent it to the "quarter final 
     round," judged by JK himself to chose the 9 finalists).  Of course it 
     didn't win! 
 
     They picked a California Common beer that was quite mediocre, instead. 
      In fact, the four of us that judged it in the second round said, 
     "None of these deserve to go on, but we have to pick one.  Oh hell, 
     what does it matter, it won't win anyway!"  Boy, were we wrong! 
 
     Instead of complaining about poor judging quality, do what I'm doing 
     and become a judge.  You'll be amazed at how sensitive your palate 
     will become and at what hard work it is! 
 
     Have Fun! 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

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From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:17:57 -0500
Subject: No sparge mashing

All this talk about no sparge mashing and how it contributes to a more malty 
flavor, has me wondering.  What in the malt contributes this flavor? 
Whatever it is, it must be more soluble than the sugars, else why is it in 
greater concentration in the first runnings?  Since the sparge recovers more 
of the sugars from the mash and reportedly diminishes the "maltiness" of the 
wort, it would seem that the "maltiness" component(s) must be more completely 
dissolved into the first runnings than the sugars are.  Why is this? 
Granted the first runnings will be higher gravity but much of this must come 
from the higher concentration of sugars.  If this high SG wort is diluted with 
water to arrive at the same SG wort as with sparging but has more "maltiness" 
than the wort from the sparged mash, I would assume that the "maltiness" 
component in the sparged mash is diluted by the additional sugars and whatever 
else is extracted by sparging and that no further "maltiness" components 
are extracted by the sparge.  Does this make sense?  Can anyone tell me what 
the "maltiness" component is and why it is extracted in the first runnings 
and not by sparging when sugars are?  Dextrins?  If so, why do they diminish 
more rapidly than the fermentable sugars? 
I am puzzled by all of this. 
 
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas 

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From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:56:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: They moved whilst you were at school, son...

Pat Babcock wrote: 
 
>Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your psychologist... 
> 
>I was recently ruminating on the underlying feeling of hostility I now 
>pick up from the digest - a feeling that started a few months before the 
>digest transferred and has been growing ever since. The feeling of 
>"family", or at least of "community" seems to be waning. 
<SNIP> 
>My intent is not to discount the contributions that some new "faces" have 
>made to the digest. Just that it seems more like a a fire-fight than a 
>community any more. 
> 
>Pat Babcock 
>pbabcock at oeonline.com (Please, oh please use this address for replies) 
>Pondering my navel in Canton, MI 
 
Well...  I went to a homebrew club meeting (my first) and sampled some 
very nice brews.  One of these brews was a "something-or-other", it was a 
term that ment the whole club used one recipe, everyone brewed it, than 
brought it to a club meeting to see the differance the brewing technic 
had on the recipe. 
 
Why don't we try this on a broader scale, it would be close to impossible 
to sample each others brews, but reports may be good enough? 
 
Any takers? 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________________ 
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com 
Brighton, Michigan 

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From: Jeff Frane <jfrane at teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Classic American Pilsner

Jeff Renner writes glowingly of his pre-Prohibition pilsner, and I'd just 
like to 
add my plaudits. My own recipe is a little different from his, but from the 
same
sources (primarily old articles by George Fix in the American Brewer and 
Zymurgy), and some experimentation. My own blend was 70/30 malt/flaked 
maize, with a significant hopping rate.  Bittering hops were Northern Brewer 
and the beer was finished with Mt Hood, 30 min. before end-boil. 
 
Renner's recipe is more authentic, with 6-row, but 2-row works very well. 
Neither of us, apparently, wanted to be really authentic, or we'd be using 
Clusters in the boil <yuk>.  I agree wholeheartedly, though, this is a lost 
and wonderful beerstyle.  America is ready, too, for a commercial 
version but I doubt we'll see it done properly. 
 
Yum and double yum. 
 
- --Jeff Frane 
 

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From: atlantis at vgernet.net
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 17:41 EDT
Subject: Burlington Brew Pub Question

In response to Mark from Delaware,  I've been to McMEILL's BREW PUB in 
Brattleboro, Vt which isn't far from Burlington (if you like good beer). 
 
Our brewclub went on a "pub crawl" there and all his beers were FABULOUS. 
All the usual denials apply, Not associated with  business, etc.  I only got 
to try his ESB, Dead Horse IPA, Big-Nosed Blond and because we were touring 
with the club, a pilsner that was still in the fermenter!  All were 
excellent.  I only wish I lived closer. 
 
The owner and brewmaster is Ray McNeill and he was very helpful as well.  He 
sat with our club for nearly an hour and answered questions, etc. 
 
From a very satisfied customer: 
 
Henry Dondi 
Dalton, Mass. 
atlantis at vgernet.net 
 

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From: DownAPint at aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:33:51 -0400
Subject: beer brite etches glass?

I have been using Beer Brite (x?) for some time to clean my glass carboys. 
After about three years of cleaning, I'm noticing large areas where the glass 
has been etched or frosted. The frosted areas are usually on the top and 
outside of the carboys. The shape that it leaves is similar to the shape of 
liquid draining down from the top. 
 
Has anyone ever heard of this before? Could it be due to the Beer Bright (I 
know caustic can cause etching)? Or maybe its just little brewing elves 
playing with my mind... 
 
Thanks in advance. 
 
Brent Smith 
 

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From: Todd.Etzel at ccmail.eos.lmco.com
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 16:28:07 PST
Subject: malt liquor

     As far as what constitutes a malt liquor, my recollection is that any 
     beer that is greater than 6 percent alcohol, and uses the word "beer" 
     on the label must be called a malt liquor. If a beer is less than 6 
     percent, it doesn't have to be called a malt liquor, but there's 
     nothing saying it can't be labeled that way. 
 
     Beers like Bigfoot get around this by avoiding the word "beer" on the 
     label, instead using "Barleywine style ale". 
 
     Check with your local BATF office to be sure, but I'm pretty sure 
     that's the way the law reads. 
 
     Todd 
 

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From: shane at cais.cais.com
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:37:11 -0400
Subject: Blue Moon Pumpkin Beer???

I was on IRC & somebody had asked if we had tried Blue Moon Pumpkin Beer. I 
never head of it. It must be seasonal, like egg nogg. But if any one has heard 
of it, please let me know if it's in a Nat'l food 
distributor, i.e. Giant, Safeway, ect. Thanks. 
 

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From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:09:49 +0500
Subject: Hoffa-brau

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... 
 
Ok, so the cat's out of the bag! Now you all must be dealt with! I 
have installed a cornie at 30 psig on the moon. With 440,000 km of 3/16" 
tubing, that's -4,330,678.6 psig at the faucet - enough, I'd venture, 
to suck the ENTIRE EARTH into the tubing! 
 
Ahahahahahahahahah! 
 
(To be continued...) 
 
See ya! 
 
Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit) 
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ 
Visit the HomeBrew Flea Market via my homepage! 
URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ 
 

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From: Marty Purselley <brewer at flash.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:32:03 -0500
Subject: RIMS: pump control

It sounds like then a combination of speed control and ball valve 
restriction on the output should do the job.  I had initially thought 
that I would use the smaller Teel pump (PN 1p676 which lists gpm as 5.5 
and rpm of 1700) as I didn't want to be continually cycling the pump on 
and off.  I note that the larger Teel is rated at 3450 RPM with 7.6 gpm 
flow.  Little giant offers a pump that is rated at 1/200th hp with 2.6 
gpm and a note that they operate at 50 hz with 20% less capacity (PN 
2p037 little giant model 1-AA-MD).  The little giant pump is rated at 
150 degrees while the Teel pump is rated at 180.  I also note that the 
Teel pumps have an automatic thermal reset circuit. 
 
Marty 

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From: Andy Dixon <amdixon at erols.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:00:16 -0400
Subject: Converted Keg Strainer

I currently have a converted keg that I use for my copper and I have a 
problem with hot break/hops clogging my counterflow chiller.  When I 
used the immersion chiller and emptied straight into the carbouy..no 
problem, the tube seemed to strain the wort.  The first time I used the 
counterflow it worked perfectly (I have flushed it out well since--no 
obstructions).  Now it doesn't want to cooperate.  Have tried several 
things including the copper chore-boy to no avail.  I have just made a 
false bottom with 1/8" holes and about 1/2" clearance from the bottom of 
the keg and am wondering if I stand to get serious carmelization.  Has 
anyone done this before and able to save me from weeks of cleaning if 
there's going to be a problem. 
Thanks 
Andy 

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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:28:34 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: RIMS heating alternative - no scorching ?

I plan on putting a 2000 W+ heating element in the hot water vessel above 
the mash tun. Why not use an immersion chiller (coil of copper tube) in 
the hot water. Now all you have to do is pump the wort through the INSIDE 
of the immersion chiller tube. The wort will reach the temperature of the 
hot water (122 F, 155F, 170 F etc.) and return to the mash tun. 
 
Also after mashing the water in the hot water vessel is not wasted. When 
you need to mash out at 170 F you would raise its temp from mash temp (152 
F) to 170 F while still recirculating the wort through the copper tube. 
The wort will pick up this heat and return to the mash tun at close to 170 
F. When mash out is complete. Use the 170 F water to sparge with. 
 
With this system you could really use a big electric heater since the 
wort is not in contact with the heating element - the water is. 
 
Comments/suggestions ? 
 
Cheers ! 
Ian Smith 

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From: XXBX78A at prodigy.com (MR PAUL G KURJANSKI)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:38:54, -0500
Subject: California Common Yeast ?

I bottled a batch of California Common beer last night and was 
surprised to see what little sediment there was in the secondary.  I 
used Wyeast 2112, primary fermentation for 7 days at 64 degrees and 
secondary for 2 weeks at 64 degrees.  This is the first time I have 
used "lager" yeast.  Is this normal ? 
 
Paul Kurjanski 
 
 
 

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From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:02:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Sammy Adams WHC (tm)

In digest #2202, Michael Caprara writes: 
 
>I entered a light peat smoked scotch ale.  IT was awesome!  The judges 
>tore my entry up because of phenolics and lack of sanitation.  Can >those 
>idiots read!!!???  I put on my entry that is was a peat smoked scotch >ale. 
>Also, this year, I got my entry form in 3 days before the beer had to >be in 
>Boston!!  My homebrew club is boycotting the world homebrew 
>competition until Jim Koch can afford to get some REAL judges and not 
>some ignorant budweiser swillers who wouldn't know a good beer if it 
>bit them in the ass! 
 
Hmmmm, peat smoked Scotch Ale? I bet there's a market for that. Wonder 
why they didn't like it? 
 
My $0.02: 
Why would someone need to trademark to slogan "World Homebrew Contest"? 
 
Wayne Holder 
Long Beach Ca 
South of LA 
North of San Diego 
West of Phoenix 
"Home of Long Beach Boston Beer" (take that Jim, your attorneys too!) 

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From: korzonas at lucent.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 13:57:21 CDT
Subject: hop storage/priming and yeast/Biscuit malt/leaking keg

Sorry that some of these are rather dated questions, but I'm trying a new 
technique.  I'm letting a bunch of questions pile up and then answer only 
the ones that have not been answered by others.  Maybe this will cut down 
on my bandwidth usage and on multiple replys to questions. 
 
*** 
Ben writes: 
    Question 1:  Can hops be stored in the freezer?  This seems logical but I 
        commercial suppliers do not.  They just refrigerate.  Am I missing 
        something?  I only use commercial (dried) hops but use pellets, plugs 
        and whole.  BYW, anyone know where you can get oxygen impermeable 
        plastic bags (do Ziplock freezer bags work)? 
 
The colder the better.  Most suppliers don't store hops in the freezer because 
of the cost.  Freezers (especially ones that you open 50 times a day) will 
use quite a bit more energy than just a fridge.  You can get Oxygen-barrier 
bags from Freshops (see Zymurgy or BT for the phone).  Ziplock freezer bags 
are nothing more than thick polyethylene which is notoriously oxygen-permeable.
 
Question 2: Whats the best way to store malted grains (crushed and whole). 
        Is it OK if I store crushed grain in a plastic bag at basement temp 
        (65F)?  How long will it keep? 
 
I've brewed with grain stored three years in sealed, thick polyethylene bags 
(no need for oxygen-barrier here really).  The beer turned out great.  For 
grains, cool, dry, and bug-free is what's important.  Now I store my grains 
in gasketted-lid, HDPE buckets. 
 
*** 
Brian writes: 
 
>does the type of yeast used affect priming in any way? For example, 
>will a lower-attenuating yeast provide less carbonation than a higher- 
>attenuating yeast if the same amount of dextrose is added at bottling? 
 
I assume you mean that you are not adding more yeast at bottling time. 
In that case, the attenuation of the yeast should have no effect on the 
carbonation.  Dextrose is 100% fermentable by all yeasts.  Flocculation 
could have an effect on the rate at which the beer carbonates, however. 
More of a highly-flocculent yeast may settled out and therefore less may 
carry over into the bottle for carbonation.  I do think this is really 
only a "how fast it carbonates" issue and not an issue of final carbonation 
level. 
 
On the other hand, if you are talking about adding a more-attenuative 
yeast (than the main fermentation yeast) at bottling time, then you 
could have higher carbonation than expected.  Bigger, more-complex sugars 
that the main yeast did not eat may be eaten by the priming yeast and 
add a little more carbonation. 
 
*** 
Paul writes: 
>So does this mean that Biscuit should be avoided unless 
>doing all-grain or partial mashes where you have pale malts to provide the 
>enzymes needed? 
 
Yes. 
 
>For my next batch (a porter) I have a pound 
>of biscuit (too much?) already mixed and cracked with a half pound of black 
>patent.  Since there are obviously no enzymes in the equation, should I get a 
>pound of pale malt and do a partial mash ala Papazian(113-122 degrees F for 
>30min., 150 degrees F for 10 min., 158 degrees F for 10-15 min.) or just steep
>what I have and get a hazy beer (I can think of worse problems)? 
 
Yes, add a pound of pale malt and do a partial mash.  I would just do 1.5 
hours at 150F if you want a less-dextrinous, "lighter" beer OR 1 hour 
at 158F if you want a more-dextrinous, "fuller" beer.  The protein rest is 
really pretty unnecessary for most malts.  No, I don't think a pound of 
Biscuit malt is too much for a Porter. 
 
*** 
Laura writes: 
>With the help of many of you, I have solved the leaking keg problem. It seems 
>the new gaskets I used on the disconnects are too thin. They are black rubber 
>and are obviously not the ones to use. White or clear seems to be the 
>concensus... 
 
I've never seen clear o-rings for these connectors, but I've seen white, 
brown, red, blue, green, and black.  Black o-rings are not necessarily 
wrong... it seems that you just have the wrong black o-ring.  The o-rings 
I use are black and come in two sizes: one for ball-lock the other for 
pin-lock.  I don't recall which is smaller, but unless you put them side-by- 
side, you really can't tell that they are different sizes.  Also, I would 
recommend buying your o-rings from a reputable HB supplier, not Ace hardware. 
 
While you may be able to find the right size o-ring at Ace hardware, it 
may not be food-grade rubber and may impart an off aroma to your beer. 
Expect to pay about $.20 to $.30 for a proper o-ring.  If none of your 
local suppliers have them, I would go with Williams Brewing or Braukunst 
(but that's just because I know they do kegging supplies and am familiar 
with their level of quality).  [No affiliation.] 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korzonas at lucent.com 

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From: nuucp at ihig2.firewall.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:13:26 -0500
Subject: UUCP command execution failed

Your UUCP remote execution request 'igdAbd61' (9/24-23:13:25) 
failed on system 'ihig2'. 
Your request: rmail lucent.com!korzonas 
Reason for failure: command exited with exit code 1 
 
 

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From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <DONVANV at msn.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 04:41:44 UT
Subject: Micro-unfriendly distributors ie, Anheuser-Busch

Spencer W Thomas brought up (HBD-2202 /Anheuser-Busch ends talks with Budvar) 
one tip of a very large iceberg that has been throwing it't weight around for 
the past few years. 
 
The situation is stated very well in an article "This Bud (distributor) is NOT 
for you" the June/July issue of Celebrator Beer News. 
 
In Long Beach, Calif. a Bud  distributor (Somerset) is apparently trying to 
expand its territory (for bud) at the cost of the micro/craft brews.  One of 
their sales reps told me that a bargaining chip in the negotiations to acquire 
more bud territory was an agreement to give up the craft brews.  Anchor is one 
of these brews. 
 
Coincidentally I understand that this bud distributor is owned (at least in 
part) by Frank Sinatra.  From now on, I shall think of him as old brew eyes. 
 
To make matters worse for craft beers, Long Beach lost a very micro-friendly 
distributor recently.   Shamrock distributors of Long Beach was bought out by 
Wine Warehouse.  The name of the new distributor is indicative of their 
priorities 
 
As an owner of a brewing supply store, I was buying glassware from Shamrock 
before they were bought out by Wine Warehouse and now it seems that Wine 
Warehouse does not want to do business with us without charging us 40% more 
(than their catalog price)  for glassware since we are not buying beer (is 
this dual pricing or something?).  It seems we are just a small fish among 
their clients of supermarkets and larger volume buyers.  I guess they haven't 
heard of PR. 
 
If you have a story about a micro-unfriendly distributor in your area, or a 
situation where one of the large breweries is trying to thwart the competition 
by lobbying efforts in the state capital I would like to hear about it. 
 
Don Van Valkenburg 
donvanv at msn.com 

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From: greg at chtree.com
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:51:44 -0700
Subject: Decoction Method

Hello Homebrewers: 
 
 Im planning a (simple) single decoction mash and thought Id run it by you 
guys. 
 Im going to divide the grain into a 60% pile and a 40% pile.  Im using 2 
quarts water per lb of grain. I have an insulated ceramic mash tun with a 
copper
manifold for lautering, various boiling kettles and a burner on the floor. Ill 
put the
60% in 125 degree strike water in the mash tun. Itll settle to about 120 deg. 
Ill
put the 40% in a boiler with strike water ranging from 155 to 165. Itll settle 
at 148
to 158. First question: is this point similar to infusion mashes in that if you
achieve
a settled temp of 148, the effect will be a drier beer; and if you shoot for a 
settled
temp of 158, the effects will be a fuller beer? I let the 40% sit for 15 
minutes at
target temp and then raise to a boil over a span of about 15 minutes. I boil 
for 15
minutes. Then I combine this slowly into the 60% (still at 120 deg) until it 
reaches a
new target temp ranging once again from 148 to 158. Same question: what should 
I shoot
for? Once the target temp is reached, any extra boiled mash I let cool to 
target temp
before adding. I let this rest for 30 minutes (too much? too little?) in 
mash/lauter
tun. 
 
 Time to mashout and lauter.  With the tun on the counter and a burner on the 
floor, I can lauter into heated wort. I want to combine the mashout process 
with the
re-circulation process. Ill put a 4 gal stainless boiler on the burner and 
start to
lauter into it with the heat off . I will also start the sparge to compensate 
for the
draining wort. When the boiler level reaches about 8-10 inches I can shut off 
the
sparge and turn on the boiler. Once the boiler gets to about 180, I gently 
re-circulate
onto a ladle on top of the grain bed. (I plan to use a quart pyrex dish and 
long oven
mitts.) Now the wort is heating up to mashout while the runnings are being 
filtered (a
mini-RIMS of course but I dont want to automate.) I can occasionally divert 
into a
clean glass to monitor clarification. Once reached, I check the temp of the 
mashout.
If its close to 170 I can divert the clear runnings into my 8 gal aluminum 
boiler and
finish re-circulating the 4 gal boiler, then re-start the sparge. 
 
New Question: How slowly do I heat the boiler? If I start boiling during the   
lauter, does it hurt the wort to go from the 170 degree tun into an 
instantaneous
boiling sea? (I have 185,000 BTUs on the floor.) Should I be mellow with the 
heat
until all the wort is lautered? Should I skim off the hot break? Do decoctions 
give a
clearer beer? Whats the best sparge temp? Too many questions! (all in due time)
 
I like the simplicity of a this single decoction, but I would be willing to do 
a double if I can be convinced of the benefits. And I am by no means committed 
to my
current plan, modification and improvement are always sought. I know so much 
yet I feel
so ignorantI kneel at the altar of the collective Homebrewing Gods 
 
Greg 
San Diego 

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