---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  beer labeling ((Jeff Sturman))
  re: sanction ((Bill Giffin))
  NetWort II - Online Open Co ("Steve Tuttle")
  RIMS heating alternative - no scorching? ((LaBorde, Ronald))
  oxygen/beck's octoberfest/hazelnut/single ferment (John Penn)
  A ? on Pale Malts ("Curt Speaker")
  Hop Storage - barrier bags ("Meisner Wallie MSM GRPP US")
  Re: Foreign Imports was Re: Malt Liquor (Scott Murman)
  Re: starch (Kent Townley)
  RE:  Starchy beer / C-P filling / Source of maltiness ((George De Piro))
  Hop Link ("Gregory, Guy J.")
  Correct usage of Counter Pressure Filler ((LaBorde, Ronald))
  FW: Beck's Octoberfest (Randal.Dusing at uswau01msg.med.ge.com)
  RIMS & Shear/Octoberfest. (Steve Alexander)
  Spiced Beers / Water-Jet Purging / BananaRama Brew (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Sampler glasses ((Jim Merrill - SMCC hardware))
  RE:Basic Mini-kegging 101 (sharrington at CCGATE.HAC.COM)
  Classic American Pilsner, hop storage (Delano Dugarm)
  Mead question (Anton Schoenbacher)
  re:malt liqour (Kurt Schilling)
  Quaternary Ammonia (D1FKV0W at BATLAN.BELL-ATL.COM)
  Los Angeles Water Analysis (RANDY ERICKSON)
  Re: eliminate oxygen before bottling ?  ("Paul A. Hausman")
  [none] ((SANTAGATO, ROGER))

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:19:15 -0600
Subject: beer labeling

From what I have been able to gather, beer is labeled according to alcohol 
content so that anything with 6% alcohol or less must be labeled Beer and 
anything above 6% must be labeled Malt Liquor.  Which brings us quirky 
beers like Paulaner Oktoberfest Malt Liquor, Paulaner Hefe-Weizen Malt 
Liquor and Pete's Wicked Oktoberfest Malt Liquor.  All of the Spaten beers 
are labeled Malt Liquor.  We also have Paulaner Salvator Double Bock ALE, 
which the BATF officials were surely imbibing heavily the day they invented 
our labeling system. 
 
jeff 
casper, wy 
 
 

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From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:04:06 cst
Subject: re: sanction

Good morning all, 
 
>>>Bryan asks: 
The AHA also supplies forms (when they sanction) for judges to 
"evaluate" the competition and for the organizer to "report" on 
the competition.  What happens to these forms when they are mailed 
back to the AHA? 
<<< 
 
So far as I know they go into the void. 
 
Are BJCP recognized any better?  As far as the organizational control of 
competitions, NO.   But most of the organizers are very qualified judges 
and run a competition as they would like to have their beers judged and 
most entry some of their tipple.  AHA does not have a qualified judge to 
organize the WHC nor does Boston Beer Co. 
 
As to the forms the score sheet that the AHA provides is barely adequate 
and the other forms that are provided are basically a waste of time. 
 
Bill 
 

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From: "Steve Tuttle" <stuttle at qm.prubank.com>
Date: 25 Sep 1996 12:36:42 -0400
Subject: NetWort II - Online Open Co

VVHC: NetWort II - Brewing With a Vengeance! 
 
Welcome to the Virtual Village Homebrew Competition: NetWort II, the second 
annual 
large-scale AHA/BJCP sanctioned competition held completely online! Brought to 
 
you by VVHS, the Virtual Village Homebrew Society of the Bacchus Wine/Beer 
Forum on CompuServe(tm). The contest will be held November 9th, 1996. (entries 
 
due by October 19th, 1996.) 
 
Once again, we've assembled one of the most prestigious judging panels ever, 
with over half our judges BJCP! And these judges will be accessible to you - 
all score sheets will be available online and you'll be able to discuss your 
scores with the judges! Judging will take place in venues all over the United 
States, connected to each other, and you, through CompuServe (CIS). 
 
                 ----==============================---- 
 
VVHS will host an awards ceremony/cocktail party online Saturday night at 
9 PM EST. All placing entries will receive a ribbon. Additional prizes last 
year included $50 gift certificate for Best of Show, $25 gift certificates 
for First Place, autographed books and T-shirts, One Step cleaner, and more! 
This year should be even better! 
 
After the awards have been presented, we'll break into one of our 
popular "cocktail parties", where everyone is encouraged to hang out and 
socialize. And we'll be surprising a few lucky individuals during the night 
with great door prizes, including 1 week free passes to the Bacchus Wine 
Forum (courtesy of Bacchus Data Services), so don't miss it! 
 
 
Let's go over that again: 
 
 - Greatest Judging Staff ever assembled! 
 
 - Beautiful Ribbons! 
 
 - Talk over your Scores with the Judges! 
 
 - Prizes! Prizes! Prizes! 
 
 - Party to Celebrate your Victory! 
 
 
Even if you don't know how to spell modem, much less use one, this is a 
competition not to be missed!  Be there and be a part of this unique 
online competition. Nowhere else will you find a competition with judging 
venues throughout the US, allowing us to recruit a judging staff second to 
none! 
 
 
What is the VVHS? 
 
The Virtual Village Homebrew Society was organized in late '94, and officially 
 
sanctioned by the AHA in early '95. We are a homebrewing club that exists 
entirely on the Bacchus Wine/Beer forum on CompuServe (CIS). We "meet" 
continuously - message threads go on constantly, and people add to them 
whenever they get on, so we're always meeting and talking brewing. 
 
We're not just talk, though; we brew and swap beers, and hold online tastings. 
 
The Bacchus Forum is visited by homebrewers of all levels of experience as 
well as by industry professionals from coast to coast - from Pete Slosberg of 
Pete's Brewing Co. in CA, to Kirby Shyer of Zip City in NY. From all around 
the globe, members come together on the forum. We have regular contributors in 
 
Belgium, Germany, and England, just to name a few! 
 
 
How do I get connected? 
 
Call 1-800-848-8199 and ask for Representative 300. Request an "Intro Pak." 
Once online, type "GO BEER" to join us. 
 
 
The Schedule: 
 
 - Judging starts at 12 PM EST. (Actual judging times for each category will 
be 
posted on CIS and on the Web Page a week before the competition.) 
 
 - Talk Back to the Judges - starts 1 hour after each category's judging has 
been completed. 
 
 - Awards Ceremony - starts at 9PM EST and should run until about 9:45, at 
which time the cocktail party begins! 
 
 
GET PLUGGED IN TO NETWORT II !!! 
 
Networt II homepage is: http://www.li.net/~brewman/netwrt2.htm 
 
 

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From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:04:53 -0500
Subject: RIMS heating alternative - no scorching?

>From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> 
 
>I plan on putting a 2000 W+ heating element in the hot water vessel above 
>the mash tun. Why not use an immersion chiller (coil of copper tube) in 
>the hot water. Now all you have to do is pump the wort through the INSIDE 
>of the immersion chiller tube. The wort will reach the temperature of the 
>hot water (122 F, 155F, 170 F etc.) and return to the mash tun. 
 
Sounds like it may work.  I haven't used a RIMS but have been thinking of 
something similar to try. I think you may have difficulty controling the 
temperature of the mash because of the thermal mass of the water.  What I 
would consider would be a fixed temperature water (170 F), and devise some 
method to lower and raise the coil into the water to control the temperature. 
That way you would not overheat the mash liquor that was in the water when 
the pump was stopped, also you can keep the pump running always. Also you 
may find the temperature changes to be too slow for the mash timing, so you 
might add some fins on the tubing to shorten the time for heat exchange. 
 
This brings to mind another way to do the same thing.  That is to use the 
coppact heat exchanger type of wort chiller, the kind with a coil inside a 3 
or 4 inch pipe and then pump the 170 F water through it and vary the speed 
of the water into the heat exchanger to control mash temperature. This would 
require two pumps and more homebrew may be consumed while you are brewing. 
 
Ron 
 

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From: John Penn <john_penn at jhuapl.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:25:29 +0000
Subject: oxygen/beck's octoberfest/hazelnut/single ferment

Eliminating Oxygen:  A fellow homebrewer was telling me about the 
benefits of oxygen absorbing caps.  Then I read a trick (Miller?) about 
leaving the cap loose on top of the bottle for about 15 minutes when 
bottling.  Carbonation begins immediately and the idea is for the 
relatively heavy CO2 to push out the air of the bottle.  I'm not sure 
how well it works but the idea sounds good to me and I've been doing 
this in lieu of buying oxygen absorbing caps. It's also very simple and 
easy. 
 
Beck's Octoberfest:  Last October when I brewed my first beer--a German 
Altbier kit--I had the chance to compare it to Beck's and Sam Adams.  I 
would agree that the Sam Adams was good, but "Americanized" is a good 
description. My first attempt turned out very good and I think I liked 
it more than the Sam Adams Octoberfest but not as good as the Beck's. 
Beck's was very good and had a nice hop aroma/taste.  Hofbrau 
Octoberfest has been a favorite of mine for years but I also like Dinkel 
Acker and Spaten. 
 
Hazelnut:  Tried the Longshot Hazelnut Brown Ale and the flavor seemed 
to build up with each sip and overwhelm the lighter style beer.  However 
I thought it might make a good Hazelnut Porter or Hazelnut Stout if you 
cut the hazelnut flavor back a lot (1/3-1/4) and added some roasted 
nutty flavor to it. Anyone have any recipes/favorite supplier with 
hazelnut essence?  I might just try a favorite Porter recipe sometime 
and add a little hazelnut to see how it turns out. 
 
Single Fermenter:  I'm just starting to use a secondary fermenter mostly 
to reduce my sediment.  Thanks to AlK's posts about using a single 
fermenter only for ales I think I'm inclined to agree.  It seems that if 
I wait a comparable time in the primary as I would in a combination 
primary/secondary I get about the same amount of sediment.  I plan to 
limit my primary to 2 weeks especially since I have been using plastic 
and I even tried a short dry hop with pellets in the primary.  I did 
increase my sediment though because of the dry hopping.  So how long 
does it take pellets to settle when dry hopping so that I can reduce the 
hop sediment?   I will use the secondary if I plan something longer than 
2 weeks or if I try some lagers but I haven't seen a huge advantage to a 
secondary for Ales yet. 
 
Sorry about the BW, 
   John Penn (Eldersburg, MD) 

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From: "Curt Speaker" <speaker at safety-1.univsfty.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:50:13 EST
Subject: A ? on Pale Malts

Hi: 
 
Thanks to all who emailed me regarding the 1997 AHA Conference.  A am 
the president of a relatively new homebrew club and want to encourage 
as many of our member as possible to try and make the 97 Conf. in 
Cleveland.  How, to the question of the day... 
 
Having started all-grain brewing less than a year ago, I knew that I 
had a lot to learn about the different types of malt available.  I 
bought the DWC Belgian grain sampler from Bristol Brewhouse 
(advertised in the back of Zymurgy - 25# on belgian malts for $15.95 
plus shipping:  you get 2# each of CaraPils, CaraMunich, CaraVienne, 
Munich, Biscuit, Aromatic and Special B plus 11# of either belgian 
pale malt or belgian pilsner malt.  A great deal...no personal 
affiliation, just a satisfied customer, blah, blah, blah).  This 
sampler let me learn what sorts of flavors and other characteristics 
each of these malts imparts to a brew. 
My real question is, how much difference (if any) is there in some of 
the base pale malts that we use?  Is there a whole lot of difference 
between: 
 
Briesse, Harrington, Hugh Beard, Marris Otter and other pale malts??? 
 
If so, what are the differences?  I read Jim Busch's "All About 
Grains 101" at the Brewery site, but that document discusses more 
about the specialty malts than base malts. 
Let's hear from you grain experts...Al, Jim, where are you? 
I will summarize the results if I get sufficient info on this 
subject. 
As always, thanks in advance for enlightening me! 
Curt Speaker 
President, State College Underground Maltsters (S.C.U.M) 
speaker at ehs.psu.edu 

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From: "Meisner Wallie MSM GRPP US" <wallie.meisner at usgr.MHS.CIBA.COM>
Date: 25 Sep 1996 18:02:39 +0000
Subject: Hop Storage - barrier bags

 
      David C. Harsh(dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu) is exactly right about 
permeation being relative to the gas, the barrier material, thickness, time 
etc. Foil bags are probably at the top end of the best flexible barriers, 
but all flexible bag/pouch materials are permeable over time, some just much 
less (or more) than others. If you use glass, I'd "purge" the air inside 
with co2 to displace any oxygen before sealing the jar. 
     For all-poly barriers, I like flexible "Saran" bags because you can 
squeeze out the excess air and they take up less room in the freezer. FREE 
samples of Saran barrier bags can be found in Pat Babcock's Homebrew Flea 
Market (http://oeonline.com/~  pbabcock/) or send pat an e-mail 
(pbabcock at oeonline.com) w/ "send list" in the subject line for a copy of the 
stuff by return e-mail. .Lots of other good stuff in there too. I don't want 
anyone to think that I'm trying to put one over here, so I won't say that I 
have no connection, these are my bags 
 
Wallie Meisner 
Packaging Engineer (believe it or not) 
Greensboro, NC 
910 632 2410 
 
 

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From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:14:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Foreign Imports was Re: Malt Liquor

On Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:49:39 -0500  A. J. deLange wrote: 
> 
> Foreign breweries do license domestic breweries to make and sell their 
> products in this country. The brewery saves the costs and degradation 
> problems (which are very real) of shiping across the pond but the products 
> are seldom anything like the European (or Australian) products with the 
> same label. 
 
Would it be safe to say that the domestically produced version would 
use a similar recipe, but local grains?  This would seem to make sense 
to me; if they're not willing to float beer across the pond, they're 
probably not willing to float 2-row either. 
 
SM 

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From: Kent Townley <ktownlex at mipos2.intel.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:23:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: starch

 
Matt Howell writes: 
 
> know could describe the taste of unconverted starch in beer, 
 
Is it possible to do an iodine test on a finished beer? I believe 
a negative test would be conclusive but I wonder if a false positive 
is possible from kettle adjuncts, hop, yeast or any other post mash 
additions? I would try it. Maybe someone here can say whether this 
is a good indication of the presence of unconverted starch in your 
finished beer. 
 
Kent Townley 
Campbell, CA 
ktownlex at mipos2.intel.com 

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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:23:35 -0700
Subject: RE:  Starchy beer / C-P filling / Source of maltiness

     Hello out there! 
 
     Matt fears that he has starch in his beer and wonders what it would 
     taste like.  Well, in large enough quantities, it would taste, um, 
     starchy.  Taste some uncooked pasta.  That's starchy. 
 
     The bigger problem with starch in beer is that brewer's yeast can't 
     metabolize it, but some other microbes can.  This leads to infection 
     problems, no matter how clean you were.  It may take a while, but 
     eventually those bottles will get quite carbonated and NOT taste 
     wonderful. 
 
     I made a pumpkin beer in my VERY early days.  I just tossed the 
     contents of two cans of pumpkin into the boiling wort.  Talk about 
     starch! 
 
     Well, two years later those forgotten bottles (they were quite bad 
     tasting from the start) started popping in my basement.  I considered 
     calling the bomb squad, but then decided that I could handle the 
     disposal job. 
 
     That's when I learned that cardboard 6-pack holders don't work very 
     well after 2 years on a damp floor.  The fallen bottles exploded with 
     quite a bit of force, sending glass everywhere, including my leg.  It 
     was only a superficial wound, thankfully. 
     -------------------------------- 
     Gary asks about counter-pressure filling.  Quite simply, you have to 
     fill with the pressure that the keg is at.  If you bottle at a lower 
     pressure, the beer will NOT have the correct level of carbonation. 
     -------------------------------- 
     Somebody (sorry, can't remember who) recently asked about the source 
     of malty taste.  Melanoidins, the product of the reaction between 
     amino acids and simple sugars, is often claimed to be the source of 
     malty taste. 
 
     Sugars taste sweet in an uncomplicated way.  Maltiness is a flavor 
     (taste + aroma) that has much more to it then just sweetness. 
 
     Some malting methods and decoction mashing favor the formation of 
     melanoidins.  That's why it's important to decoction mash Munich 
     lagers:  just having high residual sweetness does NOT make the beer 
     malty; it just makes it sweet.  You must have melanoidins to get malt 
     flavor. 
 
     Have fun! 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

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From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 11:51:00 PDT
Subject: Hop Link

 
I just stumbled on to a great hop link: 
John I Haas Company, a hop marketer, has published data on 13 hop varieties 
on their home page.  I haven't knowingly bought their product, but I learned 
a lot from their page.  Their URL is http://www.john-i-haas.com.  Cool link! 
Guy Gregory 
GuyG4 at aol.com 

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From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:58:37 -0500
Subject: Correct usage of Counter Pressure Filler

>From: Gary Eckhardt <gary_eckhardt at realworld.com> 
> 
>Using the above procedure, I end up with flat beer.  My kegs are usually kept 
>at 20-25psi and if I draw off beer directly from the keg, the carbonation 
>level seems fine.  The beer was not as cold as it should have been (~50f) 
 
Your answer is there (~50f), try 31f with about 20psi after shaking the keg 
under pressure several days earlier.  The trick is to reduce the pressure to 
about 5psi moments before you are ready to start bottling. 
 
I am using the short length of tubing stuffed into the cobra head tap and it 
works great. Don't need no steenkin' counter pressure filler.  The small 
amount of foam rises about 1 inch as I withdraw the tube while still filling 
beer.  Then I cap on top of the foam with no room for air. 
 
Nice carbonation, maybee even TOO much.  Might try less than 20psi to 
carbonate, maybee 15psi.  I am still playing. I have heard that if you put 
the bottles in the freezer, you can get even more carbonation. I have not 
tried this for two reasons. 
 
        1) I am happy with the carbonation level I get now. 
 
        2) I do not have room in my freezer for lotsa bottles. 
 
Best regards, 
 
Ron 
 
 

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From: Randal.Dusing at uswau01msg.med.ge.com
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:16:16 -0500
Subject: FW: Beck's Octoberfest

>Subject:  Beck's Octoberfest 
> 
> Tom  wanted to know if anyone has tried Beck's Octoberfest. 
>Yes I have,  just bought a 6 pack Monday night.  Have tried three 
>so far.  I am not impressed. 
>   Tastes a bit skunky 
>   Flavor's OK kind of light  (not Malty like I like) 
>   A bit hopped (Not overly) About right. 
> Would I buy another 6 pack  probably Not. 
> 
>   I want to try Paulander,  I have had Spaten 
> and liked alot. 
> 
> 
>Radical Brewer 
> 
> 

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From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:23:47 -0400
Subject: RIMS & Shear/Octoberfest.

 
Several writers suggest that enzyme denaturation by shear forces is 
ignorable. 
 
'Handbook of Enzyme Biotechnology', 2nd ed, Ala Wiseman editor states 
... 
"For rapid transfer of large volumes of process liquors containing 
enzymes, any pump used should be of a type which produces low shear, 
and foaming must also be avoided." and references denaturation as the 
reason. 
 
'Protein Biotechnology', edited by Felix Franks, 1993, (yes enzymes 
are proteins) section 3.3 is entitled 'Shear Denaturation' and 
discusses 20% loss of fibrinogen while undergoing "moderate shear 
(145/sec)".  The section also contains a graph showing loss of enzyme 
activity vs time, at a shear rate of 1155/sec.  Urease loses ~80% of 
it's activity per hour at this rate, while rennet (an enzyme used in 
cheese making - and you don't want to know where it comes from!) loses 
about 20% activity per hour.  The table doesn't happen to include 
amylases. 
 
Several books that I scanned, under the topic of biochemical 
engineering discuss shear and other properties of pumps.  It appears 
that centrifugal pumps are about the worst when it somes to shear (tho 
they have many other nice attributes); peristaltic pumps are about the 
best. 
 
W/O some facts to refute it - I consider it likely that shear loss 
happens to some extent in RIMS brewing.  It's likely that the 
magnitude of the effect varies from enzyme to enzyme as well. 
 
- -- 
 
Ian Smith asks about copper coil heating of wort.  Obviously this can 
work, as can circulating hot water thru a coil in the masher, or 
pumping wort and hot water thru a CF chiller.  Actually circulating 
hot water thru a coil in the mash and using a different (more gentle) 
means of stirring the mash would avoid the shear force issue. 
 
- -- 
 
I'm not a strong advocate of the HSA issue - but I'm surprised no one 
commented on the remark (sorry - don't remember the poster) re RIMS 
causing additional HSA.  Comments ? 
 
- -- 
 
Octoberfest info - you may want to check out ... 
http://www.munich-tourist.de/english/o1.htm 
from Siemens-Nixdorf (no affiliation).  Nice list of brewers 
represented there too. 
 
Steve Alexander 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:38:55 -0400
Subject: Spiced Beers / Water-Jet Purging / BananaRama Brew

I'm planning to do a presentation to our brew club next month (Oct 12) on 
Spiced Beers.  Having no personal experience with this (save for the cherry 
porter waiting for the Bottle), I was wondering if any of you who have had 
success in this category could e-mail me specifics.  I'm looking for the 
amount of spices and the techniques used.  Complete recipes are find but even 
tips like "a teaspoon of this in five gallons was perfect" would be great 
too.  I'll also run a thread search on the HBD and scan the Cat's Meow, but 
I'd appreciate any and all input from y'all.  Vanilla, nutmeg, ginger, 
cinnamon, allspice, hazelnut, Ben-Gay, whatever.  Thanks in advance. 
 
***** 
 
Tom Krivec asks about purging bottles before capping: 
 
"It says that before the bottles were capped, a small beam of hot water is 
injected into the bottle to make the beer foam. That foam forces the rest of 
the air, which is in the 'unfilled' part of the bottle, out of the bottle. 
So there is no more oxygen which is able to influence the taste of the beer 
while lagering." 
 
Haven't tried this nor even thought it through much, but I suppose you could 
take a syringe, draw up a small bit of beer from the bottle, and blast it 
back in.  This is the same techniques used to simulate the effect of a "beer 
engine" and saturate a glass of your brew with atmospheric nitrogen to give 
it sorta that draft-Guiness quality.  Might be an infection hazard though; 
maybe you could store the syringe in a small glass of vodka between bottles? 
 
***** 
 
Daniel "Yes that's his real name" Goodale updates us on his banana beer (what 
a pioneer!) and had some questions: 
 
"Questions: 
 
1.  Is the tannic bite caused by tannins?  I didn't think 
bananas had any.  In the peel? " 
 
Ever chewed a banana peel?  Next question!  Actually, those stringies that 
are sorta in that netherworld between Peel and Fruit might be to blame too, 
if you left too many on the peeled banananananana<esc>. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
El Paso, TX 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy 
 

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From: jmerrill at brauhaus.East.Sun.COM (Jim Merrill - SMCC hardware)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:49:30 -0400
Subject: Sampler glasses

 
Does anyone have a good source for sampler glasses. 
The 5-7 oz ones that many of he micros serve on a wooden paddle. 
I'm looking for just the glasses not the paddles. 
 
TIA, 
Jim Merrill 
jmerrill at east.sun.com  (MA) 

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From: sharrington at CCGATE.HAC.COM
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 12:41:26 PST
Subject: RE:Basic Mini-kegging 101

     Here's my experience with mini-kegs: 
 
     Sanitizing 
     ---------- 
 
     However you treat your carboys, do the same to the minikegs.  I soak 
     with bleach solution (big glug), then rinse with weak bleach solution 
     (tiny glug).  I dump the bungs in really hot water. 
 
     Corn Sugar 
     ---------- 
 
     I brew in 5 gallon batches, and find that I can get 2 minikegs plus 
     about a case or so out of a batch.  I prime the whole batch with half 
     the amount I normally would (for example, if I usually use 1 cup, I 
     prime with 1/2 cup).  I then fill the minikegs.  I then prime the 
     remaining beer with 1/4 of what I normally would use (in the above 
     example, 1/4 cup of sugar).  Then bottle the rest as normal. 
 
     Tap 
     --- 
 
     I originally purchased the expensive CO2 pump.  Not a good move.  I 
     read that you could store the beer in the keg and drink at a nominal 
     pace.  Did not work for me.  Tried vaseline on the cartridge, but 
     still had leakage problems.  Then to add insult to injury, the black 
     stem on the tap broke off.  I returned the whole thing to my 
     brewstore, and they swapped oit for an air tap (with a big refund) for 
     me. I have not used the new one yet, but since I only ever use 
     minikegs when I take beer to a party, I am not too worried about 02 on 
     the beer since they tend to go quickly.  Just my experience. 
 
 
     Stephen Harrington 
     Manhattan Beach, CA 
 

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From: Delano Dugarm <adugarm at worldbank.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:06:16 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Classic American Pilsner, hop storage

Jeff Frane writes about his pre-prohibition American lager: 
 
" Bittering hops were Northern Brewer and the beer was finished 
with Mt Hood, 30 min. before end-boil. Renner's recipe is more 
authentic, with 6-row, but 2-row works very well. Neither of us, 
apparently, wanted to be really authentic, or we'd be using 
Clusters in the boil <yuk>." 
 
 I don't think that Clusters really deserve their bad 
reputation.  I won a great deal of 6-row malt and Cluster hops in 
a homebrew contest so I did a fair amount of experimentation with 
both.  I quickly overcame the prejudices I had against them. 
 In my opinion, Clusters are a good, clean bittering hop 
that keep very well. I brewed "Your Father's Moustache" using 
Clusters for bittering, since I wanted that extra bit of 
authenticity.  The beer did have a black-current sort of flavor, 
but I do not think that this was a negative. Both Jeffs are 
correct: this is great beer.  YMMV, of course. 
 
 Concerning hop storage.  I recently made a beer using 
1986 Saaz hops (that's right, 10 year old pellets) that had been 
lost, I guess, in the Pittsburgh Brewing Company hop freezer. 
The pellets were still firm and green and smelled good.  The 
resulting beer had a good hop bitterness and a respectable flavor 
and aroma.  From this experience, I'd say that well-stored hop 
pellets can last a long time. 
 
Delano DuGarm 
adugarm at worldbank.org 
Arlington, VA 
 
 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 13:34:24 PDT
Subject: Mead question

I made a strawberry mead about three months ago. 
I think its a still mead, no bubbles right ? 
 
My question is when I bottle this stuff does it just 
stay as is --> no bubbles ?  How does one serve such 
a beast, like wine ? 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 
****************************************************** 

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From: Kurt Schilling <kurt at pop.iquest.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 16:14 EST
Subject: re:malt liqour

Greetings and salutations! 
 
After seeing the latest thread beating on the subject of malt liquor, I just 
had to throw up my 2 cents worth of whatever. 
Most state codes will define beer as a fermented, malt beverage with an 
alcoholic component of less than 5.25%(abv), and Malt liqours as fermented 
malt beverages that have greater than 5.25% ABV. They do this so they can 
asses a higher excise tax on the higher alcohol content of the malt liquor. 
Taxation is the real issue here. Our beloved "gubbermint" wants all the 
monies it can lay hangs on. You'll also find that wines that have greater 
than 12%ABV are taxed at a higher rate than Boon's Farm and Annie 
GreenSprings etc...That's also why stuff like MadDog2020 and Thunerbird are 
labled as being fortified...it's all taxes. 
 
Now I'll go quietly back to my cave with the Pict and several species of 
small furry animals.. 
 
Kurt Schilling  e-mail kurt at iquest.net 
 

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From: D1FKV0W at BATLAN.BELL-ATL.COM
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:03:44 -0400
Subject: Quaternary Ammonia

 Fellow HBDers: 
 
 I recently had a conversation about homebrewing and sanitizing with 
 my sister, who holds a B.S. in Food Industry and who concerns herself 
 professionally with maintaining sanitary standards in food storage 
 and preparation.  When she asked whether homebrewers use quaternary 
 ammonia, I got a horrified look on my face and recited the relevant 
 passage from The Joy of Homebrewing, which states in effect that q.a. 
 is never to come into contact with any food preparation surface. 
 
 My sister was puzzled and informed me that quaternary ammonia is 
 *widely* used on food preparation surfaces on a regular basis, and 
 that she could see no reason not to use it in beermaking.  I 
 demurred, unsure whether this is another error on Charlie's part, or 
 whether there is some reason for avoiding it in beermaking that would 
 not apply to making frozen dinners. 
 
 --------------------------- 
 
 And, speaking of Charlie, I just extract-brewed [OK, shoot me! :-)] 
 some Sparrowhawk Porter, slightly modified because I could not come 
 up with a 4.5lb can of light or amber extract: 
 
     3.3 lbs John Bull Dark 
     3.3 lbs Bierkeller Amber 
     1.0 lbs dry plain malt extract 
     1.0 lbs black patent malt 325L 
     2.0 oz Northern Brewer pellets (boil) 
     1.0 oz Tettinanger pellets (finish) 
 
 TJOHB gives OG as 1.056 or so; I measured my OG as 1.042 after 
 correcting for temperature.  My wort was well-mixed, and I graduated 
 my carboy so I know that I made 5 gallons +/- 2%. 
 
 Does anyone have a thought, other than that my hydrometer might be 
 defective, that would explain the difference?  Can anyone point me to 
 a recipes for reference liquids that I can use to calibrate? 
 
 TIA, 
 Robert A. West 
 rwesthomebrewer at freemark.com  "Beer is good for what ales you." 
 d1fkv0w at batlan.bell-atl.com 

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From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
Date: 
Subject: Los Angeles Water Analysis

Warning:  Extremely Limited Regional Interest Post 
 
I was checking out my previous employer's web page today and noticed 
a pretty cool water analysis link.  Click it out at 
http://www.ladwp.com/bizserv/water/quality/info/info.htm 
 
It may be of interest to those of you in LA (But not me 'cause I don't have 
to live there anymore  ;-) 
 
Randy in Modesto (California) 
 
 
 
 
 

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From: "Paul A. Hausman" <lion!paul at saturn.planet.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:08:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: eliminate oxygen before bottling ? 

in HBD #2024, Tom Krivec <9535095 at grz08u.unileoben.ac.at> wrote: 
> 
> Hi out there, 
> 
> Yesterday I could get an article about a big German brewery (Bitburger 
> Brauerei) ...  before the bottles were capped, a small beam of hot water is 
> injected into the bottle to make the beer foam. That foam forces the rest of 
> the air, which is in the 'unfilled' part of the bottle, out of the bottle. 
> So there is no more oxygen which is able to influence the taste of the beer 
> while lagering. ... 
> Do any of you have experiences with eliminating the oxygen before bottling 
...
> 
 
Seems to me that a big German brewery is not going to be bottle conditioning 
their brew.  If there's viable yeast in the beer (like most homebrew), 
won't they use up any available O2 before it can do any damage. 
 
If you do happen to be force carbonating and counterpressure bottling, 
that's a different story.  But otherwise, I'd RDWHAHB. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* Paul A. Hausman                                           Paul at Lion.com * 
* Lion Technology Inc.                             Voice:  (201) 383-0800 * 
* P.O. Box 700, Lafayette, NJ  07848                 Fax:  (201) 383-2459 * 
*************************************************************************** 

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From: SANTA.OTD at MHS201.OTD.ANL.GOV (SANTAGATO, ROGER)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:49 1
Subject: [none]

To: homebrew at aob.org 
Subject: Milwaukee Pub Crawl 
 
Hi, my homebrew club in the NW suburbs of Chicago is planning a pub crawl 
in mid-October to Milwaukee.  We plan on making it an overnight event.  I 
have a list of possible stops.  I would like to discuss this with someone 
(OFF LIST).  If you would like to volunteer and are knowledgeable about 
the Milwaukee beer scene, send me an email at "santa at anl.gov". 
 
 
 
TIA 
 
Roger Santagato 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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