---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Noonan (RUSt1d?)
  Unlurking/Xmas Spices/Curacao/Longshot Ripoffs (Rob Kienle)
  Foreign brewers and beer labeling (Dale Smith)
  GABF Members Only Tickets (Jim Thomas)
  Melanoidins, Decoction Mashing, and extracts ((Brian Pickerill))
  Counter Pressure Filler - Recap (no pun intended) (Gary Eckhardt)
  Beck's Oktoberfest (Aaron Sepanski)
  malts/contract "imports" (korz at xnet.com)
  motor loading (Larry Johnson)
  grains ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Hmmm. Plastic carboy? ("David E. Bentz")
  Honey ("W. Scott Snyder")
  malts ((BAYEROSPACE))
  Spelt ((John W. Braue, III))
  CAMRA Book "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" (Jeff Hewit)
  Counter Pressure Bottle Filler (greg at chtree.com)
  Too much moss?? ("Bateman, M.D.")
  URL for PSC brewing stuff?? ((Robert Marshall))
  Triticum spelta ((Torbjorn Bull-Njaa))
  Cut off from the HBD (AJN)
  Re: Hmmm. Plastic carboy? (Geoff Bagley)
  Saranac FallFest Results (tgaskell at syr.lmco.com)
  yeast propagation/enamel pots (Robert DeNeefe)
  Software (Alex Banta)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 12:49:21 -0700
Subject: Noonan

At Stoudts Festival last weekend I had an IPA from the Seven 
Barrel Brewery that was wonderful. It tasted like an improved 
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and screamed Cascades. Next to the 
serving station they had an index card with the following 
written down (which I took!): 
 
Pale                Perle (2/3) 
Cara                Cascades (1/3) 
Crystal (5%) 
Wheat   (2%)        Dry Hop with 1.5 oz Cascade/gal 
 
O.G. 1052           IBU's : 62 
F.G. 1016 
 
 
My question on this is the 1.5 oz Cascades for every 
gallon.  This seems a little much? (Why not fill your 
mouth with cascades and drink a beer through them. Kinda 
like a hop back in your mouth). Can anyone tell me more 
about this beer and it's formulation? It was nectar, a 
well hopped ambroisa! Way to go Greg. 
 
- -- 
John Varady 
Boneyard Brewing Co. 
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow" 
 
 
 

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From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:53:16 -0500
Subject: Unlurking/Xmas Spices/Curacao/Longshot Ripoffs

Greetings, all! 
 
So I guess it=92s time to stop lurking as I=92ve both a question and a bo= 
ne 
of contention that=92s been rising in my throat like so much 
overcarbonated Pilsner.... 
 
First the question; I=92ve read that the use of orange peel as an additiv= 
e 
to a beer such as an Xmas ale is undesirable because it tends to 
diminish head retention. The alternative, I recall, is to use a hit of 
orange curacao instead. I can=92t remember, however, how much liquor to 
use or when to add it to the beer. I assume during the secondary if not 
just prior to bottling/kegging would be the best times? Though in 
practice I have not found the addition of orange peel to affect head 
retention to any noticeable degree (I=92ve been making an Xmas spiced ale 
for three years running at least), I have noticed the orange flavor 
isn=92t coming through (though the mutual inclusion of cinnamon, honey, 
and ginger may have something more to do with it) and am considering the 
use of the liquor instead in order to get that tinge of orange flavor 
(it=92s also a pain to grate all that orange zest!).=20 
 
Now my bone of contention. There=92s been a lot of discussion surrounding 
Sam Adams=92 Longshot competition and I think it=92s noteworthy that any 
homebrewer would be fortunate and talented enough to have his/her recipe 
be commemorated by being taken to market by a microbrewer (and I use the 
term loosely here with regard to SA). However, my own background is in 
advertising and marketing and I have to point out to anyone out there 
seriously considering =93giving away=94 their hard-earned recipes that 
=93giving it away=94 may be a generous term to describe their participati= 
on. 
You basically are giving SA a marketable product and (most important of 
all, since I=92m sure SA has no trouble putting together a new recipe) an 
interesting marketing =93hook=94 (a brilliant one, in fact, as they=92re 
capitalizing on the entrepreneurial instinct in all of us) that will 
surely translate into many dollars of sales and profit for SA. In 
return, you get a tee-shirt and a trip. Now is it just me or is there 
something wrong with this picture?=20 
 
Prosit! 
 
*********************************************** 
Rob Kienle=20 
rkienle at interaccess.com 
Chicago, IL 
 
=93A rolling stone gathers no moss.=94 --Publius Syrus, 42 B.C. 
=93Running beer gathers no foam.=94 --Victor Hugo, 1862 
 
*********************************************** 

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From: Dale Smith <des at io.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:48:43 -0500
Subject: Foreign brewers and beer labeling

Jeff wrote 
>From what I have been able to gather, beer is labeled according to >alcohol 
content so that anything with 6% alcohol or less must be >labeled Beer and 
anything above 6% must be labeled Malt Liquor.
 
I don't know about Wyoming but In Texas the magic number is 4%. Cleis 
brews there golden, and bock to be 3.9 for just this reason. Most 
domestics are in the 3.5 to 3.9 range. Most lights are 3.0 to 3.5. Those 
ice beers are 5.0 for light and 5.5 to 6% for regular ice. If you look 
closely you will notice that nowhere on the can does ice beer say 
"beer". Not that it matters much. 
As for foreign brewers brewing over here, there are only a few that I'm 
aware of. The US has trade agreements with Canada and therefore we brew 
theirs and they brew ours. Molsen, Labbat and spring brew Bud, Miller 
and Coors up there. We do the same down here. Lowenbrough (sp? ) is 
brewed in Fort Worth. I doubt seriously if you'll find a Fullers or 
Guinness brewed over here. Most imports say "imported by xxxx" unless 
they are contract brewed over here. Speaking of Celis, anyone tried the 
new 
CELIS DUBBEL ALE. Very nice! Really  warms you up. I toured the brewery 
a couple of weeks ago and was amazed to find that they used basically 
the same ingredients that we home brewers use. Breiss malt, hop pellets 
and plain old Austin tap water. Just goes to show you don't it. 
 
Dale 

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From: Jim Thomas <jim.thomas at telops.gte.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:39:30 -0500
Subject: GABF Members Only Tickets

For the collective: 
 
Anybody know if "members only tasting" tickets will be available at 
the door on Saturday?? 
 
TIA, 
 
Jim 

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From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:41:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Melanoidins, Decoction Mashing, and extracts

George De Piro recentely wrote: 
>     Some malting methods and decoction mashing favor the formation of 
>     melanoidins.  That's why it's important to decoction mash Munich 
>     lagers:  just having high residual sweetness does NOT make the beer 
>     malty; it just makes it sweet.  You must have melanoidins to get malt 
>     flavor. 
 
Which makes me wonder:  Is any of the DME or LME on the market decoction 
mashed, and would it make any difference? 
 
TIA, 
 
- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie, IN  <00bkpickeril at mail.bsu.edu> 
 
 

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From: Gary Eckhardt <gary_eckhardt at realworld.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:42:44 -0500
Subject: Counter Pressure Filler - Recap (no pun intended)

Since I was asked, I'm posting the variety of responses I got on my 
question about the correct use of a Counter Pressure Bottle Filler. 
 
It looks like my problem was temperature.  I haven't had the time to 
chill the beer colder and try again, but I will this weekend! 
 
Posted below is a summary of responses I received via e-mail. 
Thanks to all who responded!  I must admit, for a first time poster to the 
list, I am impressed with the friendly response I got to this question. 
I've found a home!  ;^> 
 
Original Posting: 
- ----------------- 
 
>I recently bought a counter-pressure bottle filler, and I guess I'm doing 
>something wrong, as all my beer is FLAT when I try it out the next day. 
> 
>The instructions that came with it were rather vague, so I was wondering 
>if anyone had any ideas on the correct operation of it.  I have a 
"three-handed" model, meaning it has the needle pressure release valve 
>as well. 
> 
>Here's the operation procedure I used in a nutshell: 
> 
>1) Adjust CO2 tank to 10-15psi. 
>2) Put filler in sanitized bottle. 
>3) Open CO2 valve, then open needle valve to flush bottle with CO2. 
>4) Close needle valve and CO2 valve. 
>5) Open Beer valve.  Beer should not be flowing. 
>6) Open needle valve to start beer flowing and adjust to stop foaming. 
>7) When bottle filled, close needle valve, and close beer valve. 
>8) Take filler out of bottle and cap. 
> 
>Using the above procedure, I end up with flat beer.  My kegs are usually kept 
>at 20-25psi and if I draw off beer directly from the keg, the carbonation 
>level seems fine.  The beer was not as cold as it should have been (~50f) 
> 
>Any help, suggestions?? 
> 
>Thanks. 
 
 
Response 1: 
- ----------- 
 
>0) boost keg pressure to 30psi a day or two before filling 
>.5) Chill keg, bottles, filler to 32f. 
>.75) bleed off excess co0 
> 
>> 1) Adjust CO2 tank to 10-15psi. 
>I use 5-10.  I found that too much pressure will knockout some co2 
>during bottling. 
 
Response 2: 
- ----------- 
 
>Sounds like what I do.  If you only put 15 psi in the bottle and you have 25 
>psi in the keg, you'll get beer flowing into the bottle  (step 5). You need 
>to equate these pressures.  And seems like 25 is a bit high for the keg 
>pressure, especially if you serve the beer warm (55F). 
> 
>What happens when you take the filler off the bottle?  I get a big pfffft 
>sound and some foaming, but not much.  I cap and next day, carbonated beer. 
> 
>I got almost no foaming when I had the beer real cold and the bottles cold. 
>Things worked great, but I dont' think things are much worse when the 
>bottles are room temp. 
 
 
Response 3: 
- ----------- 
 
>When CP-filling, I find it is important to get the beer as cold as 
>possible to minimize foaming and out-gassing. 
 
Response 4: 
- ----------- 
 
>Your procedure sounds fine.  It is the same as I usually use.  The big key 
>is to have your beer cold - as close to 32F as possible.  There is a major 
>difference between 32F and 35F in the behavior of the CO2.  I also 
>wonder about the accuracy of your regulator.  If your regulator is set at 
>25 psi and the beer is not 4/5 foam, I think it is reading incorrectly.  My 
>beer is kept at 10 to 12 psi and it is fully carbonated.  When I am going to 
>counter pressure fill, I adjust the regulator up to 20 psi to give it a little
>extra CO2 to compensate for the inevitable losses in filling. 
> 
>I would be interested in reading a summary of the responses you get to 
>your query in HBD. 
 
Response 5: 
- ----------- 
 
>Maybe you are not maintaining pressure on the bottle before you fill it. 
>You might want to check out this web page: 
> 
>http://www.foamrangers.com/filler.html 
> 
>It was put together by the webmaster of my homebrew club, the Houston 
>Foam Rangers.  It explains the operation of a counterpressure filler. 
> 
>Good luck! 
 
 
- ---------------------------+---------------------------------------------- 
Gary Eckhardt              |   "in this day & age...music performed by 
Database Consultants, Inc. |    humans...hum!?"  --wilde silas tomkyn 
dcigary at txdirect.net       |                R,DW,HAHB! 
gary_eckhardt at realworld.com| R^3 = "Real World.  Real Smart.  Real Quick." 
(210)344-6566              |         http://www.realworld.com/ 
 

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From: Aaron Sepanski <sepanska at it.uwp.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:17:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Beck's Oktoberfest

 
One gentleman published that he had recently tried Beck's Oktoberfest and 
said it was skunky.  This is really curious to me because I had the same 
experience THIS year.  The Beck's of last year I thought was much 
better.  I also noticed the skunky scent/flavor.  I was just 
dissapointing that's all.  Last year I think that it was much better. 
Does this sound familiar to anyone else?  I'm sure the problem is in the 
distribution of the beer, not in the making. 

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From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:43:38 -0500
Subject: malts/contract "imports"

Curt writes: 
Breiss, Harrington, Hugh Baird, Maris Otter and other pale malts?? 
 
Breiss and Hugh Baird are maltsters.  Harrington, Maris Otter (as well 
as Klages and Triumph) are strains of barley.  Breiss makes their 2-row 
from Harrington as do most US maltsters.  Every few years the farmers 
change strains when a strains disease-resistance fades.  In the Midwest 
 they changed from Klages to Harrington a few years ago.  In the West, 
they are part-way through the change.  There are perhaps five or six more 
2-row strains grown in the US, but Harrington (I'm told) is the most 
common.  Hugh Baird (I've read) is made from Maris Otter.  Maris Otter 
is supposedly one of the very best malts.  Other maltsters that use 
Maris Otter are Crisp Maltings and Beeston. 
 
I have only used several pale malts to the point where I feel I could 
give an opinion on them: DeWolf-Cosyns (DWC), Munton & Fison and Schreier. 
I've used Munich malts from Ireks and DWC and thought they were both 
great and quite comparable.  Of the three Pale Ale malts I've used 
a lot of, the Schreier is the cleanest (which can be a positive or a 
negative, depending on what you are trying to make).  M&F has the most 
caramel and melanoidin flavours of the three.  You can actually make 
a decent Bitter with 100% M&F Pale.  Forget it with the DWC and Schreier. 
They both need at least 10% crystal malt to make a proper Bitter. 
 
So, in my opinion, all three of these malts are excellent quality and 
differ in flavour significantly.  Incidentaly, Schreier doesn't make 
a "Pils" and a "Pale ale" malt... they make one pale malt "Brewer's 
2-row" which seems more like a Pils than a Pale Ale malt to me. 
 
*** 
SM writes (in response to AJ's comment on foreign beers brewed in the 
US under contract): 
>Would it be safe to say that the domestically produced version would 
>use a similar recipe, but local grains? 
 
Nope.  Two that immediately come to mind are Loewenbrau (Miller) and 
Andechs (Huber).  I've had both here and in Germany and neither are 
anything even close to the original.  I have tasted Budweiser in 
London and it tasted about the same as it does here.  On the other hand, 
the Miller I tasted in Canada was much better than it is here in the US. 
I have also compared (side-by-side) the Labatt's Blue in Canada with 
the import version.  The difference was far greater than could be 
due to the stresses of shipment.  Different recipes, I'm quite sure. 
 
As for floating grains versus beer, remember that you are importing 
water too when you ship beer.  It would be much more economical to 
ship grains and hops and use local water than to ship beer, but you're 
probably right, they probably do use local grains. 
 
 
Al. 
 
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL 
korz at xnet.com 

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From: Larry Johnson <Maltster at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:49:39 -0700
Subject: motor loading

Bob Sutton says, in HBD #2201 
 
>Let me caution that before anyone just slaps a controller on their 
>existing pump, they should confirm that the pump can operate continuously 
>at reduced speed. Most motors rely on self induced fan cooling. When the 
>rotational speed id reduced, fan speed is reduced, cooling is reduced, and 
>at some point the motor will overheat. Generally if the motor HP rating is 
>well above the required load, a reduced fan speed will still provide 
sufficient >cooling. When in doubt, check with the motor supplier. 
 
Generally true, with a couple of comments: 
 
1.  Since centrifugal pumps are non-linear loads, the loading increases 
exponentially with speed.  This means that at 50% speed, the load is less 
than 50% of the load at 100% speed. (Got that?)  At 25% the load is less 
than 50% of the load at 50% speed, and on and on, exponentially.  Therefore, 
there is some relief to the amperage (and therefore the heating) because of 
the load characteristics. 
 
2.  The above is some help, but is much improved upon if the controller that 
is used to power the motor is one that not only varies both voltage *and* 
frequency (a light dimmer only varies the voltage), but is also capable of 
producing a non-linear voltage curve that corresponds to the non-linear 
torque curve mentioned in (1.) above.  This curve is known as a "variable 
torque load profile" and many AC motor controllers are configurable for that 
type of output. 
 
3.  This may all be completely irrelevant, since I have no idea if there are 
AC motor controllers like this for motors as small as the ones you're using 
in your RIMS systems.  I am only familiar with what's available in the 1/4 
to 1200 horsepower range. 
 
Come get me, Mom; I'm through........... 
 
Larry Johnson / Athens, GA / Maltster at ix.netcom.com 
 

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From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:54:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: grains

Tom Castle writes: 
>  I've seen DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt and Pils Malt in the catalogs. 
>  Oh, Grain Gurus, what are the differences in these grains and what 
>  are the different characteristics typically associated with each? 
 
Well, it kind of correlates with the differences between pale ales 
 and pilseners. 
 
Pale ale malt has lower protein, lower enzymes (diastatic power), 
and higher color.  It will make a darker beer than the pils malt.  It is 
good for single infusion mashes, however, due to the low protein. 
 
The pils malt will make a paler beer.  A protein rest is often 
recommended.  It has more enzymes, though, so it is good to 
use this malt if you are adding adjuncts, like in a belgian wit beer. 
 
This is one topic that is rarely addressed in the literature.  Good 
to know, though, for the beer judging exam! 
 
Hope this helps. 
 
          - Bryan 
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu 
            Nashville, TN 
 

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From: "David E. Bentz" <dbentz at pen.k12.va.us>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 18:13:22 EDT
Subject: Hmmm. Plastic carboy?

Help!  I'm just getting started.  Any problems using a plastic 
carboy (5 gallon water jug) as a secondary fermenter?  If a 
food grade 5 gal. bucket is O.K., why not this? 
- -- 
*************************************************************************** 
Dave Bentz 
Turner Ashby High School 
800 N. Main St. 
Bridgewater, VA 22812 
(W) (540) 828-2008 
*************************************************************************** 

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From: "W. Scott Snyder" <w-snyder at students.uiuc.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:37:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Honey

 Greetings all! 
 
 Was wondering if anyone had any experience with using Honey in 
their brews.  I'd like try to work up some type of Honey Ale (ala J.W. 
Dundee)  but am at a loss as to how much honey to use and what affect it 
will have on overall character and alcohol content. 
 
 I am an extract brewer (grad student = no money, no space and no 
time) so if you can keep any recipie suggestions within that framework, 
I'd appreciate it! 
 
 Thanks! 
 
 Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. 
 
 -Scott 
 
 
            ______________________________________________________ 
  _________|                     |                                |_________ 
  \        |   W. Scott Snyder   | Ask not whether you believe in |        / 
   \       |       "Cosmo"       | Dragons, but rather, whether   |       / 
    \      |                     | Dragons believe in you...      |      / 
     \     |------------------------------------------------------|     / 
     /     | E-MAIL -  w-snyder at uiuc.edu                          |     \ 
    /      | URL    -  http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~w-snyder/    |      \ 
   /       |______________________________________________________|       \ 
  /____________)                                               (___________\ 
 
 
 

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From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:27 -0600
Subject: malts

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
tom castle asked: 
 
>  I've seen DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt and Pils Malt in the catalogs. 
>  Oh, Grain Gurus, what are the differences in these grains and what 
>  are the different characteristics typically associated with each? 
 
pale ale malt is slightly higher kilned.  the kilning reduces the available 
enzymes for mashing compared to pils malt, but there are still plenty to 
mash and convert a reasonable amount of adjuncts.  the flavor of ale malt 
is partway in between pils and vienna malt, in my opinion.  some very light 
vienna malts taste a lot like pale ale malt.  the kilning also increases 
the color of the beer in pale ale malt, as compared with pils.  there may 
be a slightly lower pH at mash-in using pale ale malt as well, but i've 
never experimented with this (and probably don't have accurate enough pH 
measurement capability).  pale ale malt has very low (if any) levels of 
the compounds which form dimethyl sulfide in a slowly cooled wort; pils malt 
has plenty of these precursors, and dms will be quite evident in the finished 
product of a slowly cooled wort made from pils malt. 
 
schreier malting will send you a copy of a malt analysis for all the malts 
they carry, including dewolf cosyns.  much of the information about color, 
enzyme content, etc. is in the malt analysis. 
 
 
dave wrote: 
 
>I'd like to experiment with making a very low alcohol mild using as a 
>base Laaglander extract, but building the body and maltiness using a 
>specialty grain such as Belgian Aromatic<snip>I've not used Aromatic before 
>and I'm concerned that it will further increase the sweetness, 
>Which of the various specialty malts are noted for adding character 
>without adding much sweetness? 
 
 
first off, if you use aromatic malt, you really should be mashing it. 
 
 
i believe you can use aromatic and mash it at a low saccarification temp., 
around 150 deg. F, and it really won't contribute much sweetness, however, 
aromatic malt is very low in enzymes and you must be careful not too overshoot 
the temperature.  otherwise you may decimate the enzyme population to the 
extent that it does not convert all the available starch.  in this case, you 
would end up with a starch haze and food for bacteria in the finished beer. 
you may want to add a small amount of pale lager malt to avoid this 
situation. 
 
 
generally, the crystal-type malts are the specialty malts that will really 
contribute a lot of unfermentable sugars and sweetness.  if you're doing a 
partial mash (as with aromatic), you control the sweetness/dryness balance 
with the mash temperature.  chocolate and heavily roasted malts/barley 
contribute a darker "roasted" type flavor that's really not sweet like the 
crystal malts are. 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark bayer 
 
 
 
 
 

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From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:56:24
Subject: Spelt

Charles Capwell <chas at A119018.sat1.as.crl.com> asks: 
 
>Whilst looking around a chain supermarketish health/new age store(Whole 
>Foods) here in San Antonio, I spied something called 'Flaked Spelt'(right 
>next to the $.89/lb Flaked Barley) and I started wondering what the heck 
>'spelt' was and what kind of effects it might have as an adjunct. If anyone 
>knows I'd appreciate your sharing of knowledge. :> 
> 
 
Spelt is a hardy species of wheat (genus Triticum) mostly seen in 
Europe (although, as your evidence indicates, it's making its way 
across the pond). 
 
I don't know what it does as an adjunct, but, in the absence of 
hands-on knowledge, I'd advise treating it as a normal hard wheat. 
 
- -- 
John W. Braue, III                     braue at ratsnest.win.net 
                                       jbraue9522 at aol.com 
 
I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work 
miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified. 
 

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From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit at erols.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:52:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: CAMRA Book "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home"

Alex Santic indicatd that he was going to contact CAMRA (in England, I 
guess) to see about getting a copy of their book "Brew Your Own Real Ale At 
Home."  This book is already available in the good old US of A.  I purchased 
my copy through mail order from a homebrewer supplier - I forget who.  I 
have seen it listed in the catalogs of a number of the major suppliers.  It 
might even be available as a special order from a bookstore.  No need to go 
directly to England for a copy - unless one were to go in person, or course. 
 
 
- ---------------------------------- 
Jeff Hewit - Midlothian, Virginia 
 

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From: greg at chtree.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:13:43 -0700
Subject: Counter Pressure Bottle Filler

My local brewstore sells a counter pressure bottle filler for $35. How do these
work? How well do they work? I'd rather build one than buy one, so I'd love to 
hear
any construction ideas.  Thanks. 

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From: "Bateman, M.D." <batemanm at email.uah.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:27:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Too much moss??

 
 Has anyone ever used more than 1 tbsp of irish moss?  If so, 
can you describe the flavor that it caused? 
 
I'm still trying to track down an off flavor from a batch that I brewed 
and I have narrowed it down to either an over use of irish moss or leaving 
the beer in the sun light for two weeks during the fermenting process. 
 
What happened: 
 
 I was following a stout recipe and it called for irish moss.  It 
did not say when to add the irish moss, so I added it at the same time as 
I added a portion of my hops (40 minutes before finishing.)  I added the 
amount which was supplied to me (probably a lot more than 1 tbsp). 
 
The result: 
 
 A very strange tasting beer.  The best description of the beer 
came from a friend who said it tasted like a "soured tea."  The beer has a 
strong bitter taste and it exceptionally thick and probably really clear. 
After four days of furious fermentation, I changed the beer to a glass 
carboy and had probably one and one half gallons of mush at the bottom of 
the primary bucket.  When I bottled, I had probably one and one half 
gallons or more of mush at the bottom of the carboy.  Each bottle has a 
good deal of settlement in them. It is undrinkable at the present time. 
Although over the past month it has somewhat settled down but not near 
enough to be drinkable. 
 
The beer is only a month old. 
 
 
I was wondering if there was something that I could do with this bad 
batch...if it doesn't settle out in the near future. 
{Not wanting to waste any of it if it can be helped.} 
 
Michael D. Bateman 
batemanm at email.uah.edu 
 

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From: robertjm at hooked.net (Robert Marshall)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 05:13:32 GMT
Subject: URL for PSC brewing stuff??

A few days ago I saw a web page for a company called PSC (I don't 
remember what it stood for). One of the things that caught my eye was 
a brewing stove which allows use of natural gas. 
 
Now, when I try to find the page, I cannot. Does anyone know the 
company I'm talking about? Also, could you forward the page URL on to 
me? 
 
Thanks in advance, 
 
 
Robert Marshall 
robertjm at hooked.net 
 
homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm 
 
- ---------------------------------------------- 
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity of a prince but by Bacchus, it is 
true that the brewer is king."
 
          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916) 
          Flemish writer 
- ----------------------------------------------- 
 

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From: tbn at merkur.sds.no (Torbjorn Bull-Njaa)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:53:51 +0200
Subject: Triticum spelta

Charles Capwell  asks what "spelt" is. Triticum spelta is an old wheat 
version, I did not know it was commercially produced since the Middle Ages. 
Other wheats are emmer/triticum dicoccum and durum/triticum durum. The wheat 
we use for brewing (and bread!) is triticum aestivum or varieties of this. 
 
Torbj=F8rn Bull-Njaa 
 

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From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 06:09:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Cut off from the HBD

If anyone out there is reading this, please, please reply to me via 
private e-mail at neitzkea at frc.com. 
 
I seam to be cut off from the HBD and haven't seen a post in over a week! 
 
I need to know if there is something wrong with my end, or the AOB end. 
 
Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but I miss the HBD. (sob sob) 
 
_________________________________________________________________________ 
Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com 

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From: Geoff Bagley <geoff at gcbagley.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:55:29 +0100
Subject: Re: Hmmm. Plastic carboy?

In message <199609262213.SAA85222 at pen2.pen.k12.va.us>, Homebrew Digest 
REQUEST Address Only <homebrew-request@ aob.org> writes 
>Help!  I'm just getting started.  Any problems using a plastic 
>carboy (5 gallon water jug) as a secondary fermenter?  If a 
>food grade 5 gal. bucket is O.K., why not this? 
 
No problem if the plastic is the right kind. 
 
Over here we use plastic vessels for mashing, plastic boilers 
("Bruheat"), plastic fermenters, and plastic barrels (5 gals) for the 
finished beer. 
RTegards, 
Geoff Bagley 

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From: tgaskell at syr.lmco.com
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 96 08:06:08 EDT
Subject: Saranac FallFest Results

Saranac Fall Fest Results 
 
The brewing season has begun in the Empire State! 
 
The following are the results of the 1996 Saranac Fall Fest 
Homebrew Competition which was held Saturday, September 21 
at the F.X. Matt Brewing Company in Utica, N.Y. 
 
All proceeds benefit the United Way of Central New York. 
 
Entries accepted from New York State Homebrewers. 
 
Total Entries: 114 
Categories: 12 
 
                       Club      Style 
Best of Show 
  Paul Krebs           STB       Framboise 
 
Amber and Dark Ales 
  Manny Holl           HVH       Traditional Bock 
  Rich Mueller         MVFOB     Vienna 
  Manny Holl           HVH       Oktoberfest 
 
Belgian and French 
  Paul Krebs           STB       Framboise 
  Paul Krebs           STB       Trippel 
  Peter Garofalo       SCBC      White (Wit) 
 
English and American Ales 
  Manny Holl           HVH       India Pale Ale 
  Phil Milano          MUGGZ     Classic English Pale Ale 
  Michael Maimone                American Pale Ale 
 
Fruit & Herb Beers 
  Tom Gaskell          MVFOB     Raspberry Porter 
  Chris Russell                  Citrus Wheat 
  Eric Schauber        HVH       Cranberry Ale 
 
Light Lagers 
  Phillip Mitchell     ABC       Dortmunder/European Export 
  Phillip Mitchell     ABC       German Pilsener 
  Rich Rucigay         STB       Dortmunder/European Export 
 
Meads and Ciders 
  Dennis Everett       SCBC      Sparkling Metheglin 
  Dennis Everett       SCBC      Still Cyser 
  Phil Milano          MUGGZ     Strawberry Mead 
 
Miscellaneous Ales 
  Peter Garofalo       SCBC      American Brown 
  Chris Russell                  Kolsch 
  John Thibodeau       MUGGZ     American Brown 
 
Porters 
  Tony Kattato         MVFOB     Porter 
  Anthony Becampis     HVH       Porter 
  Chip Quayle          MVFOB     Porter 
 
Specialty Beers 
  Steve Sammons        MVFOB     Brown w/ Molasses 
  Ray Adams            MVFOB     Black and Tan 
  Mike Maimone                   Maple Porter 
 
Stouts 
  John Barnes          SCBC      Imperial Stout 
  Manny Holl           HVH       Sweet Stout 
  Rich Rucigay         STB       Foreign Style Stout 
 
Strong Ales 
  Bob Ehlers                     Scottish Light Ale 
  Manny Holl           HVH       English Old/Strong Ale 
  Lyn Howard           HVH       Scottish Export Ale 
 
Wheat Beers 
  Eric Schauber        HVH       Weizen/Weissbier 
  Peter Garofalo       SCBC      Weizen/Weissbier 
  John Barnes          SCBC      Weizen/Weissbier 
 
 
Special Categories 
 
Winners were selected from entries in the Tastes Like Saranac 
categories by the Tasting Panel from the F.X. Matt Brewing Co. 
 
Tastes Like Saranac Amber 
  Ray Adams            MVFOB     Classic Style Specialty Beer 
 
Tastes Like Saranac Golden 
  Peter Garofalo       SCBC      German Pilsener 
 
Tastes Like Saranac Pale Ale 
  Phil Milano          MUGGZ     Classic English Pale Ale 
 
Tastes Like Saranac Black and Tan 
  Lee J. Turner        SCBC      Porter 
 
Tastes Like Saranac Wild Berry Wheat 
  Ray Adams            MVFOB     Specialty Beer 
 
 
Key to Clubs: 
  ABC    Albany Barley Converters 
  HVH    Hudson Valley Homebrewers (Hyde Park) 
  MVFOB  Mohawk Valley Friends of Beer (Utica) 
  MUGGZ  Mutually United Grape and Grain Zymurgists (Schenectady) 
  SCBC   Salt City Brew Club (Syracuse) 
  STB    Saratoga Thoroughbrews 
 
Special thanks to the F.X. Matt Brewing Company, brewers of Saranac, 
for their help in making this event happen. 
 
I also want to publicly thank these incredible folks: 
  Tricia Hogan, Saranac Tour Center 
  Chip Quayle, MVFOB, Registrar 
  Rich Mueller, MVFOB, Chief Steward 
  Jim Kuhr, MVFOB, Head Judge 
 
Tom Gaskell 
Organizer 
1996 Saranac Fall Fest Competition 
 

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From: Robert DeNeefe <rdeneefe at compassnet.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:52:26 -0500
Subject: yeast propagation/enamel pots

In an effort to make a Wyeast packet go further than one batch, I dumped 1 
lb. of DME into a gallon of water, boiled it, cooled it, put it into my 
primary, aerated it, and then poured in a swelled packet of #1056.  I plan 
to let it ferment out and then bottle and refrigerate it.  Then I'll make a 
starter from a bottle when I need to and off we go.  I may have made one 
mistake though.  I didn't remove the hot/cold break from the boiled wort, 
and there seems to be a lot of gunk at the bottom of my fermenter.  Will 
this lessen the life of my little yeast bottles?  Will this, re-pitched into 
my next batch, cause weird flavors?  Will Veronica find happiness with her 
boyfriend's ex-boss's lovechild Waldo?  Tune in tomorr...oops, sorry. 
 
Second question: Does anyone use enamel on steel pots over a propane cooker 
(ring burner) for boiling their wort?  I am collecting the necessities for 
all-grain, and large enamel on steel pots are certainly priced right (for me 
anyway).  Is a propane cooker too "strong" for them (ie. do I need a heavy 
duty pot)? 
 
Lastly, thanks for being so kind in answering my previous questions.  In 
regards to my last question about a dirty copper immersion chiller, I tried 
scrubbing it to no avail.  So I used some copper cleaner on it and it's now 
bright and shiny.  If it's good enough for copper pots, it's got to be good 
enough for my chiller! 
 
 Robert 
 
 

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From: Alex Banta <abanta at sctcorp.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 96 10:42:58 EDT
Subject: Software

Hello Fellow Homebrewers, 
 
I was recently given an old IBM 286 machine.  Does anybody know 
of any homebrew type software that might be compatible for this 
"old" machine?  Everything I have seen so far is for Windows 3.1 or 
Windows 95.  I know there must be something.  Homebrewing 
has been around for a long time, at least as long as this computer 
anyway. 
 
Any suggestions?  Email me privately at abanta at sctcorp.com. 
 
Thanks in advance for any ideas that you all may have. 
 
Happy Brewing! 
 
 
 
 
Alex R. Banta 
Programmer Analyst, BANNER Finance 
SCT Government Systems 
Lexington, KY  40504 
VOICE 277-1500 x 364 
INTERNET abanta at sctcorp.com 
 
 

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