---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Re: PPBT qualifications  (Derek Lyons)
  re Barley Wine Yeast (Mark Thompson)
  Starch (Anton Schoenbacher)
  Re: sanitation (Kelly Jones)
  Duvel (Peter Ensminger)
  Sparge-free All-Grain ("Genito, Michael A.")
  Start-Stop Fermentation ("O'Mahoney, Larry")
  sweet beer (faymi at earlham.edu)
  Sanitation con't (Kathy Booth)
  World Beer Festival -- PART 1/2 (John Adams)
  Re: The Un-Believer's Six-Pack (Anton Schoenbacher)
  World Beer Festival -- PART 2/2 (John Adams)
  Earl Grey ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
  Whiskey in my wort ((Mark Olson))
  Oatmeal / cracked wheat mash conversion  (Jon Vilhauer)
  Liquid Pumpkin Pie (Darrin Pertschi)
  [none] ((Cory Chadwell))
  High temp fermentation (follow-up) (Dave Mercer)
  Re: fast ferments, sampler sixpak (lheavner at TCMAIL.FRCO.COM)
  Water analysis and treatment questions ("Toler, Duffy L.")
  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale / Six Pack ((Denis Barsalo))
  The Move to All-Grain (long) (smurman at best.com)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 08:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: PPBT qualifications 

At 02:18 AM 10/7/96 -0400, you wrote: 
>>>>>> "Derek" == Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net> writes: 
> 
>    Derek> How is a megaswill professional (The bulk of the industry, 
>    Derek> no slam, just truth) qualified to judge a weizen? 
> 
>Over the last four years, I have been involved with organizing and 
>running the Michigan State Fair homebrew competition.  We have always 
>invited professionals from local breweries to participate in our 
>best-of-show panel.  This includes the Stroh Brewing Co., a local 
>"megaswill" company. 
> 
>I have been impressed with the depth and breadth of knowledge these 
>folks brought to the table.  One year, the panelist from Stroh 
>deconstructed a barleywine recipe by tasting it.  The brewer was in 
>the audience, and his mouth dropped further and further as the 
>panelist described what he was tasting. 
> 
 
This is exactly my point.  Thanks.  He can deconstruct a brew.  (That's his 
job, keeping the flavor of his brew 'standardized'.)  This does *NOT* mean 
that he knows what a given style is supposed to taste like. 
 
This may explain the low scores and odd comments on judging sheets as 
mentioned here. 
 
> 
>In my experience, these guys may not sell a weizen, but they know what 
>it's supposed to taste like, and they know when it's good or bad. 
> 
 

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From: Mark Thompson <markt at hpdocp3.cup.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 08:56:39 -0700
Subject: re Barley Wine Yeast

ray gaffield: requested information on Barley Wine yeast. 
 
 
 
 
The way I do it is as follows: 
 
1 Get a fresh pack of one of the following yeasts and smack it: 
 
        1056 
        1084 
        1007 
 
2. Make a 1 quart starter after it expands 
 
3. Make an ESB with a gravity of about 1.050 or so. 
   make sure to oxygenate thourghly as to assure maximum yeast 
   growth. 
 
4. I like to transfer off the trub the next morning but you 
   can use the secondary yeast too. 
 
5. Once you  are ready to rack off the secondary start brewing 
   your barley wine.  you can also save the dregs in a sterelized 
   jar for a few days. 
 
6. Pitch the yeast and oxygenate. 
 
I personally have used this system with the 1007 and the 1084 with 
good results.  Full fermentation in a short period less than a week. 
I have heard that the 1056 works well for high gravity as well, but 
haven't tried it myself. 
 
Good luck 
- -- 
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* 
Mark E. Thompson mailto:mark_thompson at hp.com 
Enterprise Objects Program Networked Computing Division 
Hewlett-Packard Co. Cupertino CA 
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 9:02:27 PDT
Subject: Starch

About a week and a half ago I made what I thought was an 
'extract' oatmeal stout.  After I made this I discovered 
that you can not make a total extract oatmeal stout because 
of all the starch in the oatmeal needs to be mashed out into 
sugar.  My 'oatmeal stout' has pretty much subsided fermentation 
and tastes pretty good, but there is foam on top which looks like 
its still fermenting but the bubbles are not popping, its just 
sitting there...is this because of all the starch in my beer, 
did it coagolate (sp) on top. 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 
****************************************************** 

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From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 09:47:51 -0700
Subject: Re: sanitation

Jim Booth asks: 
> 1)  Would using 1 gal of the clorine version of bleach at 1t/gal water in 
> a 5 or 7 gal carbouy, then swirling to wet all the surfaces every few 
> minutes be equivelent to filling and letting the carbouy stand full? 
Yes, this is what I do for most of my equipment.  However, starting with 
CLEAN glassware is critical.  If you swirl the sanitizer, and then see the 
'film' on the inside solution break up and run down the glass in streams, the 
glass is not clean, and the sanitizer is not effectively wetting it. If you 
can't see sanitizer on the inside surface (because it forms one continuous, 
unbroken film) then you are wetting the glass, and the sanitizer will do it's 
stuff. 
 
> 2) Turning up the 
> home hot water heator to max gives me hot water at the tap at 152F.  Does 
> water standing/flowing in the hot water delivery system and arriving at 
> 152F have the relevent bugs killed so this water can be used for rinsing 
> items treated with bleach solutions as in question 1? 
 
Well, I wouldn't count on 152F water being sterile, there's lots of nasties 
that survive (or even thrive) at that temp.  However, I don't think most home 
hot water systems are that contaminated, so this is one of those things I 
don't worry about.  There's probably a lot worse sources of contamination 
than your hot water supply, so I choose to live with the handful of bugs that 
might be found in my water, and correct for it by using large, healthy 
pitching rates. 
 
Kelly 

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From: Peter Ensminger <ensmingr at npac.syr.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:05:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Duvel

 
Michale Otten asked about Duvel ... 
 
Duvel is also a personal favorite of mine.  In fact, I have had quite a 
few served to me during the many weeks I've been in Belgium over the past 
5 years or so (most recently in May 1996).  At no time was I served an 
'ice cold' Duvel.  In fact, I have never been served an 'ice cold' beer of 
any kind in Belgium.  The Flemish bars seem to serve Duvel at a moderately 
cool temperature, I would guess about 55 degrees F.  When I have had Duvel 
served at someone's home, its been closer to room temperature.  My 
impression is that Americans are the only ones who serve beer at 'ice 
cold' temperatures. 
 
Once, I tried to culture the yeast from the bottom of a Duvel bottle which 
I purchased here in America, but was unsuccessful.  I have been successful 
with yeasts in other Belgian beer bottles.  Perhaps my Duvel bottle was a 
bit old or perhaps Duvel is bottle pasteurized before export.  Maybe I'll 
try this again sometime.  However, you should keep in mind that only one 
of the two yeast strains which Duvel uses for fermentation actually makes 
it into the bottle.  The other one is filtered out. 
 
Has anyone out there tried to home-brew a Duvel clone?  I'd be interested 
in hearing about it. 
 
Cheerio! 
 
Peter A. Ensminger                  tel: 315-478-6024 
256 Greenwood Place               email: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu 
Syracuse, NY 13210                  URL: www.npac.syr.edu/users/ensmingr/ 
U.S.A. 
 
 
 
 
 

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From: "Genito, Michael A." <mgenito at ci.rye.ny.us>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:18:34 -0400
Subject: Sparge-free All-Grain

I saw some recent posts re doing an all-grain batch without sparging. 
Exactly how is this accomplished? What is the water:grain ratio in such 
a mash? Any FAQs out there on this? What I don't understand is how you 
can get all the sugars extracted without the sparge of additional water. 
 
Private email response preferred. I don't always get a chance nowadays 
to read the HBD daily. TIA. 

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From: "O'Mahoney, Larry" <LLOM at chevron.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 12:14:00 CDT
Subject: Start-Stop Fermentation

 
To the HBD, 
 
I have a west coast style stout frementing in my 5.5 gallon primary. After 
some very vigorous fermentation action within the first 48 hours it stopped 
dead (used one package of rehydrated Australian dry ale yeast). Then five 
days later it again began bubbling steadily about 1 bubble every 20 seconds. 
It's been doing this for two days now. 
 
Any reason(s) for this type of bizzare action? The ambient temperature has 
remained ~70-73 degrees F., and the barometric pressure has remained fairly 
steady. 
 
Thanks in advance. 
 
LarryO 

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From: faymi at earlham.edu
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 12:40:54 EST
Subject: sweet beer

I've recent ventured into partial-mash brewing (2 batches) and each of them 
have turned out kind of sweet.  The first, an IPA, was sweeter than it should 
have been, and the second, a Kolsch that is still in the fermenter is sweet but
shouldn't be so at all.  It has been fermenting for two weeks and SG is 1.013 
so i assume it has done all it will do.  Why the sweetness?   I used 3# of 
2-row pale malt and 1.5# of what malt for the mash and 3.3# M&F light extract 
and 1# of light dme.  Could it be attributed to my mashing technique? Or what? 
I don't see how these ingredients could produce as much unfermentable sugars as
are apparently in there.  Tell me what's goin' on. 
Michael 

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From: Kathy Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sanitation con't

My post last HBD should have said 1 T (tablespoon) bleach/gal to 
sanitize. 
 
My gift 6-pak to non-adventurous beer drinkers would not include those big 
hop choices. The idea is to intrigue not intimidate. 
 
a fine bitter as Boddington; a Belgium lambic as a Kriek; a S. German 
pils; a Scotch ale (Tartan) ; Celis Wit; Red Hook Hefewiezen 
 
For a mega-brewers list, I'd go Elk Mountain amber ale, Killian's Brown 
Ale, Red Hook's Hefewiezen, Cellis Wit, Samual Adams Lager, and SA Cherry 
Wheat.  If they drink sherry, I'd include Boston Beer Triple Bock as a 
bonus. 
 
Just got back from the Real Ale Festival in Chicago and I thot it 
was a pretty good event.  Of the thirty four or so cask ales about a 
half dozen about were imported.  Thanks to Goose Island and Ray Danials 
and 
the many others for lots of hard work.  Got to wander the halls of the 
Siebels Institute where the Friday night tasting class was held.  Even 
met Al K. and for spending as much time on the internet and brewing, 
he really has an attractive wife.  Cheers. . . jim booth, lansing 
 
 

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From: John Adams <jadams at pipeline.cnd.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:54:04 -0600
Subject: World Beer Festival -- PART 1/2

I recently  had the  opportunity  to have what any beer lover would call 
the  best  2-week  beer  vacation  imaginable.  One  week  at the  Great 
American  Beer  Festival  in  Denver,  Colorado  followed  by a week  at 
Oktoberfest in Stuttgart, Germany. 
 
 
September 20 -- Broomfield Colorado's Keg Ran Out Club Meeting 
 
I am starting my 2-week beer vacation  with KROC's own monthly  meeting. 
Mitch Mather's  Oktoberfest-style  Ale is very tasty and the  enthusiasm 
for KROC's  very own World  Brewers  Forum is high.  An  excellent  jump 
point for my vacation. 
 
 
September 24 -- Boulder Colorado's Hop Barley and the Alers Meeting 
 
Anchor Brewing  Company's (San Francisco,  California)  Bruce Joseph and 
Bob Brewer  are  presenting  at the Alers  meeting.  Bruce  talks  about 
Anchor's  history of making  California-style  Steam beers and their new 
venture:  Anchor Distillery which produces a single-malt rye whiskey. 
 
Geoff Larson from Alaskan Brewing and Bottling  Company  (Juneau Alaska) 
is also on hand and  claims  that  every  time he  visits  Colorado,  we 
Coloradoans are always drinking! 
 
 
September 25 -- Association of Brewers 15th Anniversary Party 
 
What a fun time!  I talk with  Pierre  Celis and  Peter  Camps  from the 
Celis  Brewery  (Austin,  Texas)  about their latest  beer, a Dubbel.  I 
discuss  English Ales with Mark Dorber  (White Horse on Parson's  Green, 
London,  England),  and  have a  humorous  conversation  with  a  rather 
intoxicated  English  gentleman,  in which we talk about  Monty  Python, 
politics, and Michael Jackson (who was standing 3m away). 
 
I also talk with  Kinney  Baughman  of the  Cottonwood  Grille & Brewery 
(Boone,  North  Carolina)  about  his  early  days with  Wayne  Waananen 
(Sandlot Brewery at Coors Field, Denver,  Colorado) and with Greg Noonan 
(Vermont Pub and Brewery, Burlington, Vermont). 
 
 
September 26 -- Great American Beer Festival Beer Judging (PPBT) 
 
Having recently been a Table Captain at the World Beer Cup in June, this 
practice  made the GABF  Professional  Panel of Blind Tasting  (PPBT) go 
very  smoothly.  Chuck Allen and Mitch Mather are my beer  stewards.  In 
the morning we have India Pale Ales and English-Style Pale Ales.  In the 
afternoon  we have Robust  Porters  and, in  preparation  for my trip to 
Germany, Maerzen/Oktoberfests.  Yummy! 
 
 
September 26 -- 2nd Annual KROC World Brewers Forum 
 
A  complete  success  and a big  thank you to  everyone  involved!  This 
year's  event,  while put  together  on a smaller  budget  and more time 
constraints, is twice the forum as last year.  We moved the event to the 
Broadway Brewing Company (Denver,  Colorado) and had over $1000 (1400DM) 
in door prizes/raffles.  Nobody walks away empty-handed. 
 
Dave  Miller  of  the  Blackstone   Restaurant  &  Brewery   (Nashville, 
Tennessee)  gives  an  in-depth   presentation  of  brewing  Continental 
Pilseners, in particular  Pilsener Urquel.  Water profiles, malts, hops, 
and yeast  selection  are  discussed.  A very  informative  and detailed 
presentation! 
 
Fred Eckhardt  gives an extremely  humorous talk and has the entire room 
laughing  continuously.  Fred talks  about  beer,  prohibition,  and the 
sanity of beer  lovers  (mostly  the lack of  sanity of those who  don't 
drink). 
 
 
September 27 -- Great American Beer Festival Beer Judging (PPBT) 
 
Friday morning we have the American Pale Ales and American Brown Ales, a 
very  difficult  category to judge.  In the afternoon we have  Specialty 
Stouts (Oatmeal Stouts in particular) and Herb/Spice beers. 
 
As soon as the judging is  complete,  Mitch and myself  walk over to the 
GABF to sample some very fine German beers:  Oktoberfests,  Weizens, and 
Pilseners!  Gary  Luther  of  the  Miller  Brewing  Company   (Hartland, 
Michigan)  suggests  places  to visit  during my trip to  Germany.  I am 
really getting in the mood for the 2nd leg of my journey. 

Return to table of contents


From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 11:34:50 PDT
Subject: Re: The Un-Believer's Six-Pack

Geoff wrote: 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
 
 Hi there! 
  
I don't think that "good beer" ever goes into a six-pack. Good beer 
doesn't even go into bottles or cans. 
  
Good beer is naturally conditioned in the cask, contains living yeasts, 
and is served at room temperature from a hand-pump (not CO2 pressure). 
   
It is brewed only from grain malt, with no added sugars, and however 
drunk you get, it causes no hang-over. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Well Geoff not everyone lives in your Utopian world.  No need to be a 
beer snob ! 
 
Gee, I thought a hangover came from Alcohol. 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 
****************************************************** 

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From: John Adams <jadams at pipeline.cnd.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:58:42 -0600
Subject: World Beer Festival -- PART 2/2

September 29 -- Continental Pilseners 
 
I arrive at my hotel in Sindelfingen (near Stuttgart) after spending the 
previous 20 hours  aboard 3 aircraft  and in 4  airports.  I feel I'm in 
very good shape  after the 8 hour time  difference  (I slept the  entire 
trip to de-jet lag myself). 
 
I drive to my good friend Jason  Goldman's  house in Gertring  (whom has 
recently  relocated to Germany) on the autobahn.  Although many sections 
of the autobahn are without speed limits, this section has a speed limit 
of 120km/h (I leave it as an  exercise to the reader to convert to mph), 
but it is fun never the less. 
 
We enjoy 2 very good beers:  Spezial-Brau, a Rauchbier from Bamberg, and 
NeckarMueller DunkleWeizen, a very nice wheat beer from Tuebligen.  Next 
stop is a small, very friendly pub in Boebligen for a couple of Pilsener 
Urquels  (Dave  Miller  would be proud) and a Guinness  Stout  (it's not 
German but it was fresh).  I am in beer heaven!!! 
 
 
September 30 -- Dogs and Wheat beers 
 
One of my trip goals is to visit the ancient  town of Rottweil.  Roughly 
100km south and  traveling at 180km/h (no speed limit on this  stretch), 
Jason  and I arrive  at the 700 A.D.  village  which is  famous  for its 
red-tiled  Roman  baths  and  their  drover   dogs--the   famous  German 
metzgerhund, or as we call them, the Rottweiler. 
 
After  trying to locate a breeder  without too much  success,  we travel 
back north to the very  pleasant old College  town of  Tuebligen  to try 
some very, VERY good German  Hefeweizens brewed only on/for the premises 
of the  NeckarMueller  on the Neckar river (I have the glass and coaster 
to prove I was there). 
 
 
October 1 -- Oktoberfest 
 
Our conference  lunch on Tuesday is fantastic  (don't ask me what it was 
but it was  delicuous),  but of  course  the  best  part is the  0,5l of 
Erdinger Kystal Weizen. 
 
Following our meeting I tag up with a fellow  conference  attendee,  Don 
Viola, and we take the S-bahn from  Boebligen to Stuttgart to attend the 
Volksfest,  the local  Oktoberfest  celebration.  As we approach the Bad 
Constant  stop  (another  ancient  Roman bath site) I first  witness the 
massive festival. 
 
The  Oktoberfest  is really a very, VERY large  county  fair.  They have 
individual booths to purchase crafts, steins, kitchen utensils, and hand 
made  items,  they also have a large  number of  amusement  park  rides. 
First stop is the 4  loop-to-loop  roller  coaster  (not going to try it 
after  drinking).  But of course the best part of the Oktoberfest is the 
beer tents--lots of them! 
 
This being Don's 2nd trip to the fest he already knew a few  waitresses, 
Renate and  Barbara,  whom we joined.  They both speak very good English 
and make us feel very  welcome.  We have a  fantastic  time:  We drink 5 
litres of Schwaben  Brau, eat half  chickens,  party with  Mercedes-Benz 
engineers (Prost!), sing beer songs with Arnold Schwarzenegger (well, he 
looked like him), and dance on the tables all night long!!! 
 
 
October 2 -- Hair of the Dog 
 
Whoa, did that  alarm go off  early?  After 8 hours of  meetings  (and a 
Erdinger  Hefedunkel--hair  of  the  dog  later)  we  re-arrive  at  the 
Volksfest.  Tomorrow  is  Germany's  Unification  day  so the  place  it 
packed!  We locate our beer  maids  from the night  before  but they are 
extremely busy. 
 
We meet a wild bunch of  Schwabians  from the Black  Forest.  We consume 
another 5 litres of Schwaben Brau and ingest more half  chickens  before 
the evening ends.  Waiting in the line for the WC (the  restroom) I meet 
a couple of guys and all evening I party,  dancing  again,  with our new 
German friends. 
 
I sing to the  local  favorites  of 'No  Satisfaction',  'Sierra  Madre' 
(which I mistook for a German  song), and 'Alice' (the chorus goes:  Who 
the fuck is Alice?)  over and over  again.  I dance the  jitter  bug and 
have one of the single best times of my entire life.  The German  people 
know how to have a good time and are the friendliest  people I have ever 
met. 
 
 
October 3 -- Rauchbier 
 
My head hurts and sleeping for only 5 hours (for the 10 straight day) is 
beginning to catch up with me.  With my friend  Jason and his wife Susan 
I drive nearly  300km to Bamberg,  home of the best smoked  beers in the 
world.  My goal for the day is to get my Renault to red-line in top gear 
but traffic is heavy as everyone is traveling to Munich for Oktoberfest. 
The best I could manage was 190km/h. 
 
Bamberg  is a truly  beautiful  town.  Missing  virtually  all of Allied 
bombing  it is  intact  and  original.  Our  first  stop  is the  famous 
Spezial-Brau  for a  fantastic  pork and  potato  dumpling  lunch  and a 
delicious  Rauchbier.  Next we walk through the old (1500 A.D.)  part of 
town  settling  upon more  Rauchbiers  at Aecht  Schlenkerla.  I enjoy a 
couple with a very  pleasant  German man and a old  Bavarian  couple (in 
their holiday attire of lederhosen and a hand-stitched dress). 
 
Next we visit the 1100 A.D.  Cathedral  but before  leaving we have 0,5l 
of a German unfiltered  Pilsener, St.  Georgen Brau.  Traffic is mild on 
the return  flight (not a drive but a flight!)  and I achieve my goal of 
red-lining the Renault:  220km/h down the autobahn!!!! 
 
We then head back for one last hurrah at the  Volksfest.  Arriving  very 
late, my mission is to  purchase  gifts (I failed to do so on my 2 prior 
visits) and arriving at the Schwaben  Brau tent (had to say  good-bye to 
our beer  maids) and with only a little over an hour to go, we manage to 
consume another 3 litres!!! 
 
 
I will have to say I have had some good times in the USA but Germany has 
it all:  great  people,  superb  highways,  fantastic  food, and AWESOME 
beers.  Having  the best  beers in the USA at the  Great  American  Beer 
Festival followed up my consuming the best beers in the world in Germany 
is a beer vacation that will be hard to top--until next year!!!! 

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From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at HOOD-EMH3.ARMY.MIL>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:03:00 -0500
Subject: Earl Grey

Dear Collective, 
 
 One of my favorite teas is Earl Grey (if it's 
good enough for CPT Picard.......) and I have got it 
in my mind to brew something with that flavor.  From 
the ingredient on the box I guess the flavor comes 
from the oil of bergamot.  Questions: 
 
1.  What style to add this to? Light lager? 
 
2.  Will oil just sit on to in the fermenter? (I didn't 
notice any oil slick on top of my tea) 
 
3.  Found the oil in a catalog, but was listed as 
"aroma therapy grade."  Is this for external use 
only? 
 
4.  How much should I add? 
 
5.  Is this just a bad idea? 
 
6.  What is a bergamot anyway; some animal? 
 
7.  Should I just use Earl Grey tea bags?  What 
about all those tannins? Primary or "dry tea" the 
batch? 
 
Any input would be appreciated. 
 
Daniel Goodale (yes, that is my real name) 
 
The Biohazard Brewing Company 
Home of the methylphosphonothioic acid lager. 

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From: marko at itd.sterling.com (Mark Olson)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:10:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Whiskey in my wort

I started my second batch of beer last week.  Everything went well, 
I learned from the mistakes that I made on the first batch, however, 
I made one gaffe.  I filled the airlock halfway with whiskey (as 
suggested in the instructions for my kit) and then, groan, moved 
the plastic pail with the airlock in place to its final resting 
spot.  In the process of lifting, the pail acted as a diaphram and 
sucked about half of the whiskey from the airlock into the beer. 
My question is, how will the affect the final product?  The airlock 
started to bubble, indicating the fermentation had started, right 
on schedule.  Will this ruin the batch? 
- -- 
Mark Olson  ||   Mark_Olson at sterling.com 

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From: Jon Vilhauer <jvil at inforum.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 13:39:01 -0700
Subject: Oatmeal / cracked wheat mash conversion 

Many stout recipies call for the addition of oatmeal to the mash. 
Presumably oatmeal adds flavor and perhaps a little body.  I've tasted 
beers such as this but don't know what part (if any) of the flavor is 
oatmeal based.  And I've wondered about unmalted wheat. 
 
     As an experiment, I intend to brew three small batches of an 
unassertive ale - medium bitterness, little hop aroma, OG around 1044, 
and just enough crystal malt to provide an enjoyable ale. 
 
Batch 1  2 row barley malt only 
Batch 2  2 row barley malt & quick cooking oatmeal 
Batch 3  2 row barley malt & cracked unmalted precooked wheat 
 
     My question, sparge problems aside, is how high a proportion of 
oatmeal & unmalted wheat can I use and still get full conversion.  My 
guess is not more than about 30% of the total mash (dry weight basis). 
I'll be using domestic (Great Western) 2 row barley malt, and plan on a 
50-60-70 mash schedule, 30 min at each step, but am open to suggestions. 
 
Jon Vilhauer 

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From: Darrin Pertschi <darrinp at cowles.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 16:52:17 -0400
Subject: Liquid Pumpkin Pie

Duff Hickman says Bernard D Hummel (hummelbe at pilot.msu.edu) asked a 
few weeks ago about favorite recipes for a seasonal pumpkin/spiced ale. 
 
This is a recipe I got off AOL last year, sorry I don't have the original 
posters name. If he/she is present by all means stand up and take credit. I 
used carving pumpkins. Everyone in the brewing community seems to 
agree that cooking (neck) pumpkins would be better. Everyone who tried 
this one though loved it. I just bottled this one again (using neck pumpkin 
this time) last week, it was crystal clear and tasted delicious. 
 
 
Brew Name: Pumpkin Ale 
Category/Type: Pumpkin Beer 
Date Brewed: 9/14/95 
Date Bottled: 9/29 
Original Gravity: 1.045 
Final Gravity: 1.020 
Batch Number: 15 
Batch Size: 6 
Alcohol Content: 3.3% 
Apparent Attenuation: 54.6% 
 
Grains/Malt Extract: 
6 lb. light extract 
1 lb. Pale Ale Malt (English 2 Row 2.25 L) 
1 lb. Crystal Malt 
 
Hops: 
1 oz. Tettenanger (40 min.) 
1/4 oz. Saaz (10 min.) 
 
Special Ingredients: 
Irish Moss 
4 tsp ground cinnamon                      2.5 tsp ground ginger 
1.5 tsp nutmeg                                     1 tsp whole cloves 
1 tsp allspice                                       6 whole corriander seeds 
1 Vanilla bean chopped 
Yeast: Wyeast #1056 
 
Brewing Procedure/Fermentation Log: 
Bake the pumpkins (halved and seeded)  at 350 F for an hour, or until 
visually carmelized. Scoop out the pumpkin flesh from the rind and add 5 
cups to 2 gallons of water along with grains. Mash  at  150 F for 60 
minutes. 
Strain out pumpkin and grain and set aside for later use.  Top off wort to 2 
gallons and bring back to boil. Add extracts and boil for 60 minutes. 40 
minutes remaining in the boil, add Tettenanger. 30 minutes remaining add 
spices. 10 minutes remaining, add Saaz and Irish Moss. Cool and transfer 
to fermenter. Patiently top off with cold water poured through the 
reserved pumpkin and grain. 
 
Enjoy, I will! 
 
- -- 
Darrin in Central PA 
Proprietor--Simpleton's Cosmic Brewery 
- --------------------------------------------- 
You never know just how you look through other peoples eyes. <B.H.S.> 

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From: cory at okway.okstate.edu (Cory Chadwell)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:55:44 -0700
Subject: [none]

     Hey Beer fans, 
 
     A couple quick questions for the learned. 
 
     1. Secondary fermentors:  I have a simple two 6 gal. food grade bucket 
     setup for fermentation. One I use as the primary fermentor then I 
     siphon into the second bucket for bottling (it has a tap at the 
     bottom).  I've always done single stage fermentation's fairly 
     successfully with this setup (no food poisoning).  A friend has a 
     similar setup and he uses the bottling bucket also as a secondary 
     fermentor about 1 week before going to bottle.  What are the pro's and 
     cons of a secondary fermentation and are there any additional steps 
     you go through for secondary fermentation (he just sets it in the 
     bucket for a week)? 
 
     2. Extract improvements:  After a previous post I received many great 
     suggestions on how to improve my simple extract brews (which I am 
     currently putting to use in a new batch).  However a couple 
     interesting ideas were a little vague so if anyone can shed a little 
     light on the following it would be much appreciated. 
 
      a)  Steeping with ground coffee beans as opposed to grain to get a 
     nice coffee beer (I've had a couple bottles of a commercial version of 
     this and I think it's great) 
 
      b)  Using dried pumpkin seeds to steep rather than grains (same deal 
     as above I love those store bought pumpkins beers around Halloween) 
 
      c)  Adding fruit concentrate to the bottling bucket right before 
     going to bottle (never had the fruit beers but they really sound fun) 
 
     THX, CDC 

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From: Dave Mercer <dmercer at path.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:17:24 -0700
Subject: High temp fermentation (follow-up)

A few weeks ago I posted a question to the collective regarding the cause 
and prognosis of a funky 'bad alcohol' taste to a brown ale that I had 
recently bottled. I said that I had used 1056 yeast and that due to the 
blistering Seattle August (insert smiley) the beer fermented in the mid-70's 
(F). I asked whether this nasty off taste was likely due to high ferment 
temperatures or to something else. Well, the feedback I received from 
several HBDers was almost unanimous in attributing this nastiness to high 
temperature, but was evenly split as to whether time and conditioning would 
fix it. Apparently the voices of optimism were correct this time. After only 
about 6-7 weeks in the bottle, this beer has gone from being almost 
undrinkable to being pretty good. Actually, very good IMHO. Whatever caused 
that cheap vodka aftertaste has disappeared as mysteriously as it arose. 
Now, just because a diagnosis with a name, even in the absence of a cure, 
can be a comfort, I'd like to know what this was I was tasting and by what 
mechanism it corrected itself. Anyone? 
 
 
Dave in Seattle. 
 

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From: lheavner at TCMAIL.FRCO.COM
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:31:50 -0500
Subject: Re: fast ferments, sampler sixpak

 
     >>> From: "David C.C. Sprague" <dsprague at bga.com> 
         Date: 
         Subject: When to Stop Secondary Fermentation 
 
     Ours started at 1.052.  {snip}  Fermentation 
     was over in three days in the bucket.  In the process of transferring, 
     I checked the specific gravity again.  Ours is 1.010.  {snip}  What do 
     I do? <<< 
 
     Based on many years of extract brewing, I'd recommend bottling.  I 
     have never had very cool temperatures for fermenting even in the 
     winter having never brewed north of Austin, Texas and usually south of 
     IH-10.  Your fermentation was probably warmer than you thought and 
     your yeast ate their way through your wort a little faster.  Remember, 
     fermentation is exothermic (generates heat) so your wort will probably 
     be warmer than the room you are fermenting in.  If your sanitation is 
     decent, your beer will be OK.  It could probably be improved with 
     cooler fermentation.  The problems with warm, fast fermentations are 
     the production of fermentation by-products which will affect the 
     taste.  Some are good and some are bad.  They will all take you away 
     from the style guidelines, but if you are not entering your beer in 
     competition, relax.  BTW, this is one reason why I never used a 
     secondary until I finally got a lagering fridge.  Certain types of 
     beers like flavorful ales can be pretty good at masking most of the 
     off flavors due to high temp fermentation. 
 
 
     >>> From: KennyEddy at aol.com 
         Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:18:48 -0400 
         Subject: The Un-Believer's Six-Pack 
 
 
     If you had to assemble a six-pack of beer to give to a "beer is beer" 
     type person, which six would it be? 
 
     {snip} 
 
     Any takers? <<< 
 
     SURE!  How about: 
 
     Celis White 
     Anchor Liberty 
     Redhook ESB 
     Guinness Stout (draught in the can, of course) 
     Any German Octoberfest available locally 
     Any fruit flavored beer (eg a raspberry wheat) available locally 
 
     I'd throw in a Coors as a 7th bottle (Brewers half dozen?) just so the 
     pagan infidel could have an honest comparison.  This requires only 2 
     imports and I know that all of these are readily available in a couple 
     of central Texas grocery chains. 
 
     Regards, 
 
     Lou Heavner 
     <lheavner at frmail.frco.com> 

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From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 17:38:00 PDT
Subject: Water analysis and treatment questions

 
Please forgive another water question.  My recent jump to all-grain has me 
considering all the variables!  Here are some highlights is my recent water 
analysis. 
 
pH        7.4 
hardness  464 mg/l 
calcium        103 mg/l 
sodium         9.9 mg/l 
sulfate        93 mg/l 
total alkalinity    357 mg/l 
magnesium 50 mg/l 
 
From my limited understanding of chemistry, I guess my main concern is the 
high total alkalinity and high magnesium level.  I know that if I boil & 
decant the water, I will run out of calcium long before I make a dent in the 
total alkalinity.    Adding gypsum or calcium chloride would increase my 
calcium level but would put my sulfate or chloride levels on the high side. 
 Too damn many trade-offs!  Which is more preferable? 
 
How does magnesium affect a beer's taste?  Is it a clinging, back of the 
tongue  bitterness like a well-hopped, high sulfate beer?  Can you reduce Mg 
somehow or is  R.O. or diluting with distilled water my only solution? 
 
Thanks much,  this forum has been a great help in helping me move to all 
grain! 
 
Duffy Toler 
Sugar Grove, IL 

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From: denisb at CAM.ORG (Denis Barsalo)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:03:06 -0500
Subject: Sierra Nevada Pale Ale / Six Pack

Hey gang, 
        Here I am in Montreal, reading the HBD for the past couple of 
years, and hearing a whole lot about this beer. The problem is, I've never 
seen it here, and I haven't "noticed" it on my travels in the states. 
        I'm assuming it's an American Pale Ale, made as an I.P.A., very 
hoppy and somewhere around 5% alc/vol. Am I right? Is it also the greatest 
example of an A.P.A.? 
 
       Let me know if it's readily available in Northern Vermont 
(Burlington), or in Ontario. The next time I travel, I'll pick some up. 
 
        Better yet, send me a six pack! ;-) 
 
Denis 
 
 

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From: smurman at best.com
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:21:39 -0700
Subject: The Move to All-Grain (long)

 
I recently made The Move(TM) to all-grain brewing and I thought I'd 
write down my experiences and thoughts for posterity.  Hopefully 
others might benefit from this, or it will bring back fond memories of 
others first attempts. 
 
In general I'd say it's not that difficult, but it takes a lot of 
time.  My first attempt took about 6 hours total, and I even put off 
some cleaning at the end because I was tired of it.  I think I can get 
it down to about 4 hours.  My usual brew day is a weekend morning with 
football and practicing guitar, so hopefully I can get my brewing time 
down to one football game.   I brewed the same recipe I'd made 
previously using extract brewing so I could sample the difference 
back-back.  It was an ESB brew.  I used a Belgian pale ale malt with a 
single temperature infusion, and really was pretty well prepared for 
the steps involved. 
 
My main resources were Papazian's "New Joy..", the Zymurgy '95 Great 
Grain issue, and the Brewery archives.  I would highly recommend 
getting a copy of the Great Grain issue if you haven't already. 
Especially if you are making The Move(TM).  It really helped me 
formulate my recipe and also understand what to expect in terms of 
temperatures and gravities during the process.  It's nice to have 
checks to make sure things are going correctly. 
 
The new equipment I bought was basically a Vollrath 38 qt pot with 
lid, and a propane burner.  I did this all on my small deck in my 
apartment, and I had plenty of room, so don't let apt. dwelling stop 
you.  You do need to be outdoors though.  I didn't get the King Kooker 
type burners, but instead went with a nicer 3-ring deal from the same 
restaurant supply house I got the SS pot from.  It was about $20 more 
than the King Kooker, but it uses less propane, won't be as much of a 
problem for scorching, and is much sturdier.  Worth the extra $20 IMO. 
One other piece of equipment I found very useful is a 4 qt. Al 
pitcher.  I got this for $10, and it has metric markings as well.  One 
item I found I need was a metal dial thermometer which I can simply 
leave stuck in the mash to quickly check the temp.  I think this will 
be especially useful in step mashes, but the accuracy of these things 
is sometimes a problem. 
 
I built a Zapap lauter tun, and got $4 of aluminum backed bubble 
insulation for both the mash and lauter tuns.  This was really simple, 
and worked surprsingly well.  My mash temp held steady for 60 minutes, 
and my sparge was coming out at 134F.  The lauter tun was made from 7 
gal buckets from the donut shop, and should allow me to brew any style 
of beer I want, as long as I brew 5 or 6 gal. batches.  There is about 
2 gallons of empty space below the false bottom, but I simply filled 
this with 1/2 of my sparge water.  I may cut off the bottom of the 
holed bucket and make a true false bottom at some point.  I was able 
to hit my target gravity by using a 75% efficiency in all of my recipe 
calculations.  I don't see any reason to think I won't be able to 
reach 80% efficiency after a couple of batches.  Not bad for two 
plastic buckets and some ingenuity.  I'm going to try and come up with 
a better sparge distribution system, probably a pie tin with holes (I 
used the pour over spoon method which is tiring and lets heat out). 
 
The biggest expense was the new SS pot ($135).  IMO you really do need 
to get another large pot of some type when making The Move(TM), 
because you need two pots - a main one for mashing and boiling and a 
secondary for heating and storing sparge H2O.  They do sell 40 qt. 
combination mash and lauter tuns for a decent price, and this might be 
an option. 
 
Last, but certainly not least, is the beer.  If I had to make a 
general statement about the taste difference it would be that the 
all-grain is more complex, and fresher.  If you're like me you taste 
all of your hydrometer readings.  The flavor of the all-grain wort 
jumped out at me.  The best analogy I can give is the difference 
between eating fresh vegetables and fruit, as opposed to frozen or 
canned.  I was brewing good beer with extract + specialty, but I 
didn't think I could brew great beer.  With all-grain, I think I'll be 
able to brew great beer consistently. 
 
SM 

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