---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  HBD ((Bill Giffin))
  RE: Dreaded DMS ((Bill Giffin))
  Why Lager's ? (Anton Schoenbacher)
  More counter (flow) arguments (Wade Hutchison)
  hot mash ... (John Wilkinson)
  Keg sediment (Mike Donald)
  re:Sparge Necessary? (Charles Burns)
  Chillers, 2-tier systems, etc. ("Tom Kelly")
  Re: Ouch! How bad is it? (RUSt1d?)
  Atlanta brewpubs (<egross at emory.edu>)
  Re: Ouch! How bad is it? (David Hammond)
  Primary Dry Hopping (Nathan Moore)
  Thermometer Expert products... anyone tried them? (Dave Riedel)
  Zima Type brew (chris)
  Wild Goose (chris)
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  immersion chiller construction question (William D Gladden )
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  Temp diff in chillers:  co- vs. counter-flow ((David C. Harsh))
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  What Comes Around ("David Kennedy")
  XMAS BREW (<ROTH.TER at SEATTLE.VA.GOV>)
  Re: Keg sediment ("William E. Steimle")
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  Re: zima wife ((Wouter de Waal))
  re: Dreaded DMS ((Bill Giffin))
  Altenmunoter Brauer Bier (Steven Ketcham)
  Recipe for a German Wheat Double Bock ("Kevin M. McAnulty, PE")
  Re: Ouch! How bad is it? (David Hammond)
  Re: Chiller sanitation ((Jay Reeves))
  HBD #2253 not MIA (D1FKV0W at BATLAN.BELL-ATL.COM)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:57:01 cst
Subject: HBD

Those blank messages are messages that were sent to HBD AND IT DELETED 
THEM 
 
Once is a mistake to be corrected. twice is a mistake that the fix didn't 
work and you need a new fix.  Three times and it is time to replace the 
defective item that defective item in this case is the AOB  who is in 
charge of the HBD. 
 
Have a great day and a better BEER. 
 
Bill 

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From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:59:05 cst
Subject: RE: Dreaded DMS

Good evening, 
 
>>Larry Johnson commented: 
- - you want to drive off the dreaded DMS (or one of its precursors, 
rather) that can make your beer taste like creamed corn. 
<< 
 
Hold on there Larry DMS isn't dreaded it is wonderful stuff.  Without DMS 
lagers will taste insipid.  If a beer doesn't have DMS chances are it 
isn't a beer.  I grant you that too much isn't grand, sort of like having 
too much salt or pepper to season a dish. 
 
I wish the digest came in the morning and once a day as it did before it 
moved. 
 
Bill 
Richmond, Maine 

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From: Anton Schoenbacher <aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 10:27:06 PST
Subject: Why Lager's ?

Why four they make lagers and not Ales at A-B ? 
- -- 
*****Anton Schoenbacher*****aschoenb at eecs.wsu.edu***** 

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From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:25:10 -0500
Subject: More counter (flow) arguments

 
> 
>From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> 
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:05:28 -0500 
>Subject: Re: Killer Chiller Question 
> 
>Mike Donald <mpd at plaza.ds.adp.com> writes: 
>> Correct - a counterflow heat exchanger has the hot fluid inlet and the cold 
>> fluid outlet at the same end.  This produces the largest _average_ 
>> difference in temperature over the length of the chiller. 
> 
>You know, I don't think I can agree with this statement.  Let's take a 
>hypothetical situation: 
> 
I'm sorry, but it's true whether you agree with it or not. 
 
>Assumptions: 
> 1. Flow rates of water and wort are identical (in volume-per-time) 
> 2. Heat capacities of water and wort are identical (close enough) 
> 3. The system is perfectly insulated. 
> 
>Supposition: 
> 4. Flow rate is adjusted so that exiting wort temperature is 
>    10deg above the entering water temperature. 
 
Ay, and here's the rub.  If you make this assumption, then you will 
of couse get the same log-mean delta-T no matter how you run the 
water or wort. 
 
<nice analysis deleted> 
 
>8. The average temperature difference is then 
> Integral(0,L)[(T(x) - A) dx] / L = 
>  [5 - (T0 - A)] / ln(5/(T0-A) 
>   Note that this quantity is independent of the length of the chiller. 
 
For the assumptions you made, yes, since you fixed all of the temps 
 
> 
>   With some reasonable assumptions 
> T0 = 100 
> A = (100 + 20) / 2 = 60 
>   the average temperature difference is 16.8. 
 
Ok, go back, and calculate the area needed to achieve the cooling you 
specified at some fixed flow rate of the water and wort.  You'll find 
that for a counter-flow design, the area will be less by about 7 to 
10% less than for a co-current flow design.  Or, from the more realistic 
approach, if I have a chiller of a certain size, I can use up to 10% less 
water and get the same cooling if I use a counter-flow chiller. 
 -----wade 
 whutchis at bucknell.edu 
 

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From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:31:02 -0600
Subject: hot mash ...

 
Regarding mash and strike water temps Barry Vanhoff said: 
 
>I might even go a little lower than 170F (shooting for 150F) but I'm not sure.
>I think I'll aim low and add hot water later if necessary.
 
I have found it easier to cool the mash adding tap water than to raise the 
temp with boiling.  I always end up with too thin a mash when trying to go up. 
For instance, Mash T of 165F - Tap T of 70F = dT of 95F but 
Boiling T of 212F - Mash T of 145F = 67F. I usually use a strike temp of ~175F 
and add until the mash is well soaked but thick then check the temp.  I then 
adjust to the desired temp and mash thickness. A short time above temp doesn't 
seem to hurt.  I don't worry about the number of oz./lb. I am adding.  I never 
seemed to get it all right trying to measure the strike water.  I aim for 
the mash thickness I want at the temp I want.  Of course, I heat the maximum 
amount of water I think I will need. 
 
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkinson at imtn.dsccc.com 

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From: Mike Donald <mpd at plaza.ds.adp.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:09:14 PST
Subject: Keg sediment

 
- ------- Forwarded Message 
 
   From: Russ Kruska <R.KRUSKA at CGNET.COM> 
     To: bacchus <bacchus at aob.org> 
   Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:32:00 -0800 
Subject: Keg sediment 
 
 
HELP !!  I have a fully-carbonated cornelius keg full of amber 
ale that needs to be transported to another location for a friend's 
40th birthday party.  I am worried about stirring up the sediment 
from the bottom of the keg. 
 
I am unable to filter the beer (no filter) or rack it off the sediment 
(since it's 
already carbonated).  I have read about counterpressure transfer 
from keg to keg, but have no way to monitor the receiving keg 
pressure so I am afraid to try that technique.  Any suggestions out 
there ??  Could I release the pressure in the keg, xfer it under pressure 
and then recarbonate with CO2 ?? 
 
 
- ------- End of Forwarded Message 
 
 
 

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From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:45:01 -0800
Subject: re:Sparge Necessary?

David Hill (in hbd2256) asks if the sparge is really necessary, 
especially when using a high water/grist ratio. 
 
Good question and I think someone posted earlier that they were 
experimenting with the no-sparge technique - where's the report? 
Probably one of those [none] subject posts. 
 
In any case, your question about "how much sugar is still left" after 
draining the grain bed is a good one. I propose that we do a really 
simple experiment. Next batch, drain the mashtun, separate the runnings 
from the non-sparged grains from the sparged grains. Boil them 
separately. Test the SG of the sparged runnings. Report what the points 
per gallon "waste" was. We could all then make an informed decision, and 
on a 5 or 10 gallon batch I can tell you right now that I'd drop the 
sparge in a minute if it was < 2 points. 
 
But - are there other benefits to sparging? 
 
Charley 

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From: "Tom Kelly" <tkelly at hologic.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:05:38 EST
Subject: Chillers, 2-tier systems, etc.

     Fellow Brewers: 
 
     In #2256 Al K. writes that the water inlet position on immersion 
     chillers doesn't matter as long as the wort is stirred.  I agree.  You 
     must circulate the wort to break the boundary layer between the coil 
     and the liquid.  Otherwise, efficiency of heat transfer drops 
     enormously, especially below 100F. 
 
     The Holder's asked about cleaning counterflow chillers.  I use a 
     counterflow heat exchanger (Heart's Super Chiller) which works 
     extremely well.  Chills 12 gallons to 75F in 15 minutes (4-fold faster 
     than 35 feet of 3/8 copper tubing immersed).  I sanitize by flushing 
     with water immediately, then flushing with iodophor, and storing with 
     iodophor.  I suppose I'll have to run some TSP or equiv. through 
     someday.  Another advantage of counterflow--you can add the yeast as 
     soon as chilling has commenced, since the wort exiting the chiller is 
     at pitching temp.  Enough on chillers. 
 
     David Hill asked about a two-tier system.  I brew in my basement (2nd 
     second all-grain batch now fermenting).  Low headroom ruled out a 
     sparge water vessel.  I bought a 4-gal point-of-use water heater at 
     Home Depot (1500 Watts/120F-170F/$135.00).  The trick here is to 
     supply the point-of-use heater with 140F water from your hot water 
     heater.  Otherwise, the point-of-use heater won't have enough BTU's to 
     take the water to 170F  at  10-15 gallons/hr (sparge rate).  I insulated 
     all pipes and the point-of-use heater supplies 160F water to my sparge 
     ring indefinitely at this rate.  (There is approx. 10F drop in pipes 
     and ring, however). 
 
     Question.  Is 160F hot enough?  I'd be happier with 170F.  I ordered a 
     couple of thermostats that should take the temp in the 4 gal. tank up 
     10-15F.  I've run the numbers on the BTU's necessary to take 140F 
     water to 175F at the specified flow rate.  (1500 watts is enough). 
 
     I've been reading the digest for several months and figured it was 
     about time to chime in. 
 
     Tom K. 
 
 
 

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:30:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ouch! How bad is it?

>In my ignorance, I have dry hopped into my primary fermenter. 
>I've since discovered that this was a *bad* thing to do (Charlie 
>P. says to absolutely avoid doing this). 
> 
>So, is it worth saving? It doesn't smell all that great, but 
>it is still undergoing rather active fermentation. I've got 
>half a mind to dump it and use the carboy to ferment a stout 
>recipe I've got waiting in the wings. 
 
Dumping this batch is the only *bad* thing you could do. The 
only reason CP says not to dry hop in the primary is because 
the aroma contributed by the hops will be outgassed with the 
CO2 during fermentation. Use the other half of your mind and 
taste it first. You could always add more dry hops if you are 
unhappy with the aroma/flavor. 
 
John Varady           http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html 
Boneyard Brewing Co.           "The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program" 
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow." 
 

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From: <egross at emory.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:34:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Atlanta brewpubs

 For your information, all brewpubs in Atlanta are not in Buckhead, which 
really is the bastion of meatmarket yuppiedom as opposed to great 
beer.Excellent beers are brewed 
by Keith Legget at the US Border Cantina in Roswell(I think, anyway, it's 
north of the perimeter). There is another John Harvards out there as well, 
and the superbly located Mill with brewmaster John Stuart, formerly of 
Winterpark, is located on Piedmont Park in Midtown.C. Burns missed great 
beer at the Phoenix, definitely the best of all the brewpubs he visited, 
though it is not an environment conducive to heavy duty partying.More 
Atlanta brewpubs are on the way. Lee 
 

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From: David Hammond <hammer at nexen.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:39:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ouch! How bad is it?

> 
> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:30:33 -0500 (EST) 
> From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com> 
> Subject: Re: Ouch! How bad is it? 
> 
> Dumping this batch is the only *bad* thing you could do. The 
> only reason CP says not to dry hop in the primary is because 
> the aroma contributed by the hops will be outgassed with the 
> CO2 during fermentation. 
> 
 
Well, there's more to it than that, I thought. He expressed some 
concern about bacterial contamination. If I remember right, the 
alcohol produced by the primary fermentation keeps the microbes 
knocked down in the secondary. If you dry hop the primary, then 
the microbes have a chance to interact with the sugar before the 
yeast does. 
 
I have not experienced a contaminated brew yet, so I don't know 
whether the smell I detect coming out of the fermentation lock 
is that unusual (This is my 5th brew). It's strong, and I think 
a little wierd, but my wife says it smells like molasses (no 
molasses in the recipe). 
 
I dry hopped with pellets, not plugs or flowers, if that means 
anything. 
 
> 
> You could always add more dry hops if you are unhappy with the 
> aroma/flavor. 
> 
 
Hmmm...now there's an idea. 
 
Dave 

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From: Nathan Moore <moorent at bechtel.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:52:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Primary Dry Hopping

 David Hammond asked about dry hopping into the primary. 
 Relax, you should be fine.  I did this several batches back 
without thinking and it turned out fine.  You lose a lot of the aroma from 
scrubbing by the CO2 but you should still be able to notice the dry 
hopping.  There is a very slight risk of infection because you placed the 
hops into the carboy before most of the sugar was converted but as long 
as you used clean hops, most of them are, you should be fine.  I 
definitely wouldn't dump the beer.  My philosophy is to always stick it 
out.  Who knows if it did get infected somehow you could have an 
interesting David's Dry Hop P-Lambic. 
     Nathan Moore 
     Denver, CO 
  
 
 

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From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:08:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Thermometer Expert products... anyone tried them?

It seems my previous post was eaten by the (None) virus.... 
 
A few months ago, someone mentioned the thermometers carried by 
Thermometer Expert in Portland.  They offer a 'meat' thermometer 
for ($18 + $3 handling)US which has a digital 32-248F (0-120C) 
range, a 4' probe, an alarm for pre-set temperature and a timer. 
 
I think that the alarm might be very handy as a warning of overly hot 
sparge water and as a 'ready-to-pitch' indicator during cooling. 
 
Has anyone tried this product?  Is it well worth my $21? 
 
You can check the product out at:  http://www.hk.linkage.net/%7Ethermo/ 
(no affiliation... ack ack) 
 
Dave Riedel, Victoria BC, Canada 

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From: chris <king1679 at superlink.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:19:22 -0500
Subject: Zima Type brew

Off hand I do not remember which mag it was in (BT I think) they had the 
exact recipe and process to make ZIMA. It was out of the realm of 
homebrewing (process and ingredients) but was an interesting read. There 
are chemicals for everything... stop foam production, stop color pick 
up, etc etc... Everthing that makes it a beer they remove or stop. 
Anyway I think the stuff sucks, but why not get your wife to drink a 
fruit-wheat beer or I have know plenty of woman to enjoy some of the 
Belgium Lambics or Cider. 
Chris 

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From: chris <king1679 at superlink.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:28:43 -0500
Subject: Wild Goose

They do not produce any unfiltered beers as part of the regular line. They 
very rarely produce something special for small accounts which I have never 
tasted but remember hearing about. A keg conditioned snow goose if I remember 
correctly. But as far as bottles go they are all filtered. The yeast they use 
is the same for all of their beers along with all Pugsley Beers, but off hand 
I can not remeber which it is. It is now avail. from Wyeast but it is not the 
Austrailian (at least I don't think it is). 
 
When I was brewing there they did put aside a few IPA that they did not put 
through the filter, but when we went to taste them they were BAD (infection). 
Chris King 

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From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:37:51 -0500
Subject: immersion chiller construction question

During a recent trip to the local home supply superstore, I 
noticed what I believe to be copper pipe/tube/whatever ... 
already formed into a coil in a box labeled as being made for 
hooking up automatic ice cube makers to a freezer.  It comes in 
3/8 inch and 1/2 inch diameters and up to around 20 or 25 feet in 
length.  It seemed as though it would bend easily and even snap 
pretty easily *if* you bent it back and forth repeatedly.  Since 
I don't plan to do that to an immersion chiller, I thought it may 
be just what I need.  Has anyone made an immersion chiller with 
this stuff?  If so ... any advice?  If not ... why not?  I think 
even I could make one if this stuff will work!  Thanks. 
 
ps.  Along the lines of the ideal 6 pack thread... If you are 
within the distribution range buy a mixed case of Victory Beer. 
The one I bought had Festbier, Brandywine Valley Lager, and the 
IPA [name slipped my mind]).  The inlaws got quite the education 
and enjoyed one of each ... as well as some homebrew, before 
returning to Molson.  The only greater favor you could give 
yourself is to stop at the Victory Brewing Co. brewpub/resteraunt 
in Downingtown, PA and have it on tap.  No affiliation other than 
enjoying the increased quality of life from a top notch brewpub 
in my hometown. 
 
Bill Gladden: Downingtown, PA 
Direct flames to:  <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US> 
I'm still trying to discern if ideas are better if they come off 
the top of my head or the bottom.  Does it matter if I have a hot 
head?  What is the best way to cool it? :-) 
 

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From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:33:54 -0500
Subject: Temp diff in chillers:  co- vs. counter-flow

Warning:  long post on heat transfer! 
 
>Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> writes: 
 
>Mike Donald <mpd at plaza.ds.adp.com> writes: 
>> Correct - a counterflow heat exchanger has the hot fluid inlet and the cold 
>> fluid outlet at the same end.  This produces the largest _average_ 
>> difference in temperature over the length of the chiller. 
> 
>You know, I don't think I can agree with this statement.  Let's take a 
>hypothetical situation: 
 
(For a counter-flow chiller:) 
>9. The "average" temperature difference is 10 deg. 
(For a parallel flow chiller:)... 
>   the average temperature difference is 16.8. 
          (I get 33.7 in my calculations) 
 
My problem is the ultimate performance of the exchangers Spencer describes: 
 
Counter-current:             ******************** 
            Wort In = 100 C  *   Heat           * Wort Out = 30 C 
   Cooling Water Out = 90 C  *    Exchanger     * Cooling Water In = 20 C 
                             ******************** 
 
Co-current:                  ******************** 
            Wort In = 100 C  *   Heat           * Wort Out = 65 C 
    Cooling Water In = 20 C  *    Exchanger     * Cooling Water Out = 55 C 
                             ******************** 
 
Notice that the co-current exchanger did not exchange as much heat, - only 
a 35 C temp change was seen as opposed to 70 C!  As a result, we can't 
compare the temperature driving forces for these two exchangers - no matter 
how large the co-current exchanger is, we can't get lower the wort 
temperature past the average inlet temperature of 60 C. 
 
Let's now consider the temperature limits given in the co-current case 
above in a counter-current exchanger so the total heat transfer is the 
same: 
 
Counter-current (#2):        ******************** 
            Wort In = 100 C  *   Heat           * Wort Out = 65 C 
   Cooling Water Out = 55 C  *    Exchanger     * Cooling Water In = 20 C 
                             ******************** 
 
       The average temperature difference in this case is 45 C. 
 
So the counter-current #2 exchanger requires less total exchanger area than 
the co-current exchanger with the same inlet and outlet temperatures.  The 
decrease is directly proportional to the mean temperature differences. 
 
>The reason a CF chiller can be more efficient than an immersion or 
>other chiller is because it maximizes the temperature difference 
>between the *entering* coolant and the *entering* wort... 
 
No.  The amount of heat transfer at any given point in an exchanger is 
dependent on the *local* temperature difference.  Thus, the total heat 
transfer is based on the *average* temperature driving force.  Counter-flow 
heat exchangers will always transfer more heat in the same area at the same 
flow rates than co-current exchangers for this reason. 
 
If you want more information, check out J.P. Holman's Heat Transfer, 
published by McGraw-Hill.  Chapter 10 section 5 covers the use of average 
temperature driving forces in heat exchangers.  I've taught Heat Transfer 
several times and teach a lab that covers Transport Phenomena, so this is 
actually an area that I feel I can claim competence in. 
 
Dave 
 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& 
&                    Dave Harsh                        & 
&          DNRC Minister of Bloatarianism  O-          & 
&            "non illegitimi carborundum"              & 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& 
 
 

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From: "David Kennedy" <HW1.DKENNED2 at HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>
Date: 31 Oct 1996 14:39:14 PST
Subject: What Comes Around

 
 
"Ah yes, the good ol'days. While the phrase seems a bit trite, it is 
basically true.  The reason that they were good is the signal-to-noise 
ratio (another overused phrase) was very high.  The main reason for that 
is that the digest was full of questions and answers-good questions and 
good answers--and not so much speculation and flamage.  It was not a 
bore, it was a joy to read--a real learning resource.  There were not 
many who just spewed speculation and guesses in order to feel important. 
It was not that people weren't thinking for themselves; there were those 
who questioned the established routines. And there were usually 
constructive replies--or at least good debates (full of information) with 
very little name calling.  The tension was very low.  It seems that these 
days, there are those who are just waiting to pounce. (At least we 
haven't reverted to spelling flames)." 
 
This was submitted to Digest 952 in August of 1992.  Sounds very similar 
to the current debate.  Get a grip folks, the digest will improve, in fact 
2257 had some very good posts.  To those signing off, why the need for 
a grand exit posting, just unsubscribe.  Chances are you will be back, 
since you will not find another group of people who enjoy discussing 
beer at this level.  Things have not changed as much as you may think. 
 
Dave Kennedy 
Sacramento, CA 
 
Its a fine line between clever and stupid. 
                           -Spinal Tap 
 

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From: <ROTH.TER at SEATTLE.VA.GOV>
Date: 31 Oct 96 14:23 PDT
Subject: XMAS BREW

 Wow---this is a very potent brew!!!!   I would use only 2 or 3 cloves for 
5 gals, and about 1-2 oz of sliced ginger. 
   I think you can do a little experiment to see what this will taste 
like. 
  Boil the listed ingredients in one quart of water, with the lid on to 
prevent evaporation.  A simmer is best.  After 45 minutes, pour a can of 
Coors or Miller----a relatively tasteless beer.  Add your "soup" a half 
teaspooon at a time, and see how it tastes.  Then you can scale up to 5 
gallons.  (ie, if one  teaspoon has the taste you like, multiply by 20, 
or the ratio of 1 qt/5 gallons. Then add 20 teaspoons to 5 gals of wort in 
primary.) 
   This method will also allow you to evalute the 'soup' for balance--too 
much clove, or ginger?  Make a new 'spice soup' with adjusted amount of 
that spice and repeat the experiment. 
   Be careful though---you might start to like spiked Coors !!! 

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From: "William E. Steimle" <steimlew at holmes.uchastings.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:54:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Keg sediment

If you force carbonate and there is only a little sediment, I would 
suggest drinking a few pints of it yourself before moving it.  I do this 
with my own kegs and by about the fifth glass, the beer is crystal clear, 
assuming you have given the sediment enough time to fall to the bottom. 
 
If, on the other hand, you naturally carbonated the kegs, I have no 
idea. 

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From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:17:44 +0200
Subject: Re: zima wife

The Prince of Dark Beers, Satan himself, he of the psycho chicken, sez: 
 
>likes the dark, chewy, powerful stuff I make.  Now that I think about it, 
>she's the only chick I know who prefers dark beers to light ones.  As an 
 
Well, there's another one... My wife never drank beer until she found some 
Hansa (Namibia) Urbock. Nice and chewy, but I like 'em more bitter. So now 
you know about two womyn ('chick' is _so_ !PC) who like dark beer. :-) 
 
ObHomebrew: I thought that malt extact and DME were equivalent, just adjust 
the weight by 80% to compensate for the water in the extract. But I see that 
the Christmas Ale recipe calls for Munton&Fison extract and DME. What gives? 
Why not just more of either one? 
 
Wouter 
 

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From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:56:42 cst
Subject: re: Dreaded DMS

Good evening, 
 
>>Larry Johnson commented: 
- - you want to drive off the dreaded DMS (or one of its precursors, 
rather) that can make your beer taste like creamed corn. 
<< 
 
Hold on there Larry DMS isn't dreaded it is wonderful stuff.  Without DMS 
lagers will taste insipid.  If a beer doesn't have DMS chances are it 
isn't a beer.  I grant you that too much isn't grand, sort of like having 
too much salt or pepper to season a dish. 
 
I wish the digest came in the morning and once a day as it did before it 
moved. 
 
Bill 
Richmond, Maine 
 
P. S. This is the fourth time I have sent this post.  Maybe the idea of 
censorship is not so far fetched. 

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From: Steven Ketcham <ketcham at earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 05:32:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Altenmunoter Brauer Bier

Hello! 
 
My brother-in-law has given me a request for a beer in the style of 
"Altenmunoter Brauer Bier" listed on the bottle as a premium Bavaian beer. 
It is brewed and bottled by Privatbrauerei Franz Joseph Sailer, 
Marktoberdorf, Germany. 
 
I am not looking for a clone just style notes. I assume it is an Alt beer...? 
 
Thanks. 
 

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From: "Kevin M. McAnulty, PE" <mrbridge at webspan.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 08:46:32 -0800
Subject: Recipe for a German Wheat Double Bock

Has anyone out there had the pleasure of trying an Imported beer by 
Schneider & Sohn called AVENTINUS.  Its' a German Wheat Double Bock Ale 
that tastes a little like CHIMAY Grand Reserve (to me at least).  I loved 
it so much that I would like to make something similar to it.  I'm not an 
experienced brewer (5 or 6 successful batches so far), so, if anyone 
knows of a similar recipe please make it as simple as possible.  The 
label says it has Chocolate, fruit & spices with a clove like finish. 
Thanks.. 
 
Kevin 

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From: David Hammond <hammer at nexen.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:46:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ouch! How bad is it?

 
Dave Hammond wrote: 
>In my ignorance, I have dry hopped into my primary fermenter. 
>I've since discovered that this was a *bad* thing to do (Charlie 
>P. says to absolutely avoid doing this). 
> 
>So, is it worth saving? It doesn't smell all that great, but 
>it is still undergoing rather active fermentation. I've got 
>half a mind to dump it and use the carboy to ferment a stout 
>recipe I've got waiting in the wings. 
 
I would like to say many thanks to all who responded to my 
post. The *unanimous* consensus is...DON'T DUMP! Therefore, 
I won't. I'll stick it out and just rack to a secondary when 
the primary is done and rehop again. 
 
Many of you pointed out that the aroma that I am trying to 
generate via the dry hopping would be mostly scrubbed out 
by the rapid release of the CO2 during primary fermentation. 
 
Many others question why Charlie P. would make a statement 
such as avoid dry hopping in the primary. His reasoning (if 
I remember correctly) is that when you dry hop into the 
secondary, there is less chance of infection due to the 
antibiotic effect of the alcohol now present in the wort. 
Should you dry hop into the primary prior to active ferm- 
entation (which is what I did) you open the door to conta- 
mination. 
 
So, I will not worry, I am now much more relaxed, and I have 
several bottles of pretty darned good homebrewed stout that 
I will enjoy this weekend while I am racking this brew (a PA 
that should resemble Shoals Pale Ale for those of you from 
New England) into the secondary. I will also be bottling an 
ESB that has been in the tank for 2 weeks, and brewing up 
another batch of honey-oatmeal stout for the holidays. 
 
This hobby kicks ass!  =8^) 
 
Thanks again.  Dave 
 

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From: jay at ro.com (Jay Reeves)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:02:02 -0600
Subject: Re: Chiller sanitation

In HBD2256, Wayne Holder ask: 
 
>To anyone using a counter flow chiller, or anyone that has heard of 
>one, what is the recommended method of cleaning/sanitation? 
 
I've heard about folkes that run cleaners and then sanitizers thru 
their CFC prior to running the wort thru, but I don't believe all 
that work and waste of chemicals is needed. 
 
While the wort is boiling, I put a few gallons of water in the hot 
liquor tank and heat to boiling.  That water is then run thru the 
CFC.  When it comes time to chill the wort, connect all of the 
lines, start the chilling water, then start the wort flow.  After 
you have your chilled wort, run more boiling water thru the CFC to 
clean it, then drain it.  I store mine dry and open.  If you clean 
it immediately after use this way, there shouldn't be any kind of 
buildup or residue left.  I've done this with +40 batches and have 
not had any infections or off-flavors. 
 
Now my question: does anyone know what "Stout Malt" is?  One of 
the homerew catalogs I've got says that it's a base malt used for 
making Stouts.  It's obviously not a specialty grain. 
 
                                -Jay Reeves 
                                Hunstville, Alabama, USA 
 

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From: D1FKV0W at BATLAN.BELL-ATL.COM
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:02:07 -0500
Subject: HBD #2253 not MIA

 Fellow HBDers, 
 
 Since our janitor-in-training has not responded so far, I shall. 
 Although I have frequent troubles getting the HBD (#2249 never showed 
 up here), I have attributed them to our firewall, and I was among the 
 blessed ones who received #2253.  FWIW, several (possibly all) the 
 posters who re-posted articles ended up repeating themselves. 
 
 In case anyone does not know, one can order a back or missed issue 
 from majordomo by sending a message of the following form: 
 
  get n2253 
  end 
 
 Include nothing else in the body.  Just as a suggestion, one should 
 probably order a missing issue from majordomo before re-posting 
 anything that should have been in the missing issue. 
 
 Happy Brewing! 
 
 Robert A. West 
 d1fkv0w at batlan.bell-atl.com. 

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