Homebrew Digest Thursday, 14 November 1996 Number 2275
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
dry hopping w/pellets (Michael Demers)
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sorry/diacetyl clarification (korz at xnet.com)
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Spelling/Hazelnut flavorings/Enz (eric fouch)
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Electric Heating elements, zinc (Ian Smith)
more O2 stuff ("Tracy Aquilla")
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Re: Al's Gas Experiment (Jeff Frane)
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Keg sources (Ian Smith)
sparge gravity at 1.010 (Ian Smith)
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"that homebrew taste" (Richard Walto)
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Stir plates and starters (Art Steinmetz)
[none] ("Welsch, John")
Re: Sankey Kegs.... ("bob rogers")
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O2 Caps and Iodophor (Phil Slotter)
beer systems ("Kevin Sprague")
portable brew ("R. Wayne McCorkle")
RE: Stainless in Seattle/temp control ("CHUCK HUDSON HEAD BREWER AND CO/OWNER OF HOMEBREW HAVEN ALBUQUERQUE NM.")
Filter for beer (Ian Smith)
Re: Address for Lambic Digest (Derek Lyons)
Newer Brewer wants to understand this fermenting experience ("Peter J. Calinski")
Motorized Stiring (Curt Woodson)
Bottle of what? (AJN)
Re: An update on the Fill Level Experiment ((Jacques Bourdouxhe))
In-line aerator (Graham Stone)
Smoky roasted barley/lager yeast at ale temps/hop aroma/2-day allgrain (korz at xnet.com)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Demers <mdemers at cabletron.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:17:51 -0500
Subject: dry hopping w/pellets
Hi all..
A couple of weeks back I asked about dry hopping
with pellets and got lots of good responses. Thanks
to all who took the time to drop me a note.
I went ahead and dry hopped a batch of Sierra Nevada
Pale Ale clone with 2 oz. of Cascade pellets. They
floated for the first day or so and then began falling.
I also helped move this process along by gently agitating
the carboy each day. Eventually I moved the carboy into
the refigerator and crash chilled it overnight. This
caused all the hops to fall. I then added gelatin finings
in an attempt to pack the hops down at the bottom. I
kegged her up the next day and all went well.
I tapped it last night and was very pleased with the hop
aroma and taste. It's really got a nice citrusy/grapefruity
taste which I love. There were a few bits of hops in the
first couple of glasses but now everything seems fine. In
fact, this is one of the clearest homebrews I have ever seen.
Virtually void of any haze as far as I can tell. This is a
process I definitely will repeat.
Hopheads unite!!!!
Mike D.
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From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:06:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: sorry/diacetyl clarification
Sorry about the double post on Guinness... my system crashed during
the editing and it seems to have sent that email. By the time I got
the Message received message, I had already sent it again.
***
In my previous post on diacetyl, I was not specific as to when you
should aerate and for how long. I suggest not waiting too long because
you risk oxidizing your alcohols. When your beer just reaches high
kraeusen aerate once. You can do this with an airstone or by racking
the fermenting beer into a secondary, but contrary to the usual advice
of running the siphon hose all the way into the bottom of the receiving
container, you let the beer splash in there, aerating the beer. Do
this once, early in the ferment.
Al.
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From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 16:24 EST
Subject: Spelling/Hazelnut flavorings/Enz
Date: Wednesday, 13 November 1996 4:03pm ET
To: STC012.HONLY at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Spelling/Hazelnut flavorings/Enzyme stability
In-Reply-To: The letter of Wednesday, 13 November 1996 3:15pm ET
HBDers:
I hope I didn't cause confusion trying to answer Jeff Kentons' question about
glcerine/glycerol by misspelling glycerine as glycerin. I meant to spell it
correctly: GLYCERINE. Glycerine and Glycerol are the same thing. There.
Al K says:
"
Therefore, in all three cases, mashout would only be killing alpha
amylase which does not change fermentability. Another way to think
about it is: if it mattered to you that the enzymes (which could only
be alpha amylase) were still working after the mash was compleat, then
there is *starch* remaining and you mashed-out too early!
"
Perhaps, and this is a wild guess on my part, all the enzymes are stable
below mash-out temps. If so, enzymes inhibited at higher mash temps
would reactivate in the collection pot in the absence of a mash-out.
Oh- and Al? you misspelled complete.
Has anybody considered using those bottles of coffee flavoring they sell
in the grocery store? Almost any flavor you want: Almond, hazelnut, various
berries, you name it. Perhaps a hazelnut flavor could be imparted by priming
with a calculated amount of this flavor syrup: Take a S.G. reading and
calculate the weight of sugar.
Any thoughts?
E-Man
Chief Executive Deer Shooter
Bent Dick Yactobrewery
Kentwood, MI
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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:45:02 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Electric Heating elements, zinc
Does anyone know where can I get a 6000 Watt, 240 Volt electric heating
element for a RIMS system (preferably stainless steel or
inconel/incoloy) for a reasonable price ?
Most of the commercially available ones have a zinc coating on them - is
this a bad thing ? I remember reading recently that zinc was an essential
element for yeast growth/function. Is it a bad thing to have it in your
beer ?
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com
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From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at erols.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 17:14:25 EDT
Subject: more O2 stuff
In Digest #2274
M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE) wrote:
>what total amount of oxygen is really required for an optimum fermentation?
None if you pitch enough active yeast. The point of aeration is to increase
yeast biomass and decrease lag time.
>the question is:
>what does this do to the beer?
That depends a lot on the yeast strain. Some strains need lots of oxygen to
perform 'normally', others need much less. In general, too much O2 will
result in extensive aerobic fermentation and yeast growth, accompanied by
the excretion of metabolic by-products such as VDKs, oxo-acids, fusel
alcohols, and esters. Depending on the targeted style, this may or may not
be what you want.
>yeast will refuse to ferment until all the oxygen is taken up, correct?
No, oxygen makes yeast ferment faster. See van Dijken, J. P., R. A.
Weusthuis, and J. T. Pronk, (1993). Kinetics of growth and sugar consumption
in yeasts. Antonie van Leeuwenhoek, 63 (3-4), 343-52.
>if you supplied the o2 too long, you would actually
>extend the lag time, correct?
O2 decreases the lag time, but too much will result in extended aerobic
fermentation and increased excretion of the by-products of yeast growth.
>certainly this is yeast strain dependent, but there's probably enough
>similarity in yeast behavior that an ideal oxygenation schedule could be
>determined.
Ideally, one would pitch healthy, active yeast at the optimal pitching rate
and be done with it. However, this is usually difficult to do, particularly
for commercial brewers. During the yeast propagation phase of a brewery
fermentation, unsaturated fatty acids and sterols are usually growth
limiting for the yeast. These lipids are essential components of the cell
membrane and if unavailable in the wort, they can only be synthesized using
dissolved molecular oxygen. Therefore, brewers may either add sterols and
fatty acids to the hopped wort, aerate the cold bitter wort, aerate the
yeast culture during propagation, or use a higher pitching rate. Commercial
breweries generally find it most convenient to aerate the cold bitter wort.
Wort aeration increases the rate and extent of yeast growth and hence
decreases lag time and results in a larger population of cells. This in turn
generally leads to more complete attenuation and fewer undesirable flavors
in the finished beer. However, if one pitches a fresh, healthy yeast culture
of the optimal size, aeration is usually not essential and may even be
undesirable in certain cases. Most importantly, the level of wort dissolved
oxygen necessary to produce the best beer depends on the strain of yeast
being used, its viability and the pitching rate, and the style of beer being
made.
Tracy
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From: Jeff Frane <jfrane at teleport.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:48:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Al's Gas Experiment
>From: korz at xnet.com
>
>The bottom line in my opinion (although this was a single experiment),
>is that a high fill clearly slows the carbonation rate and may also very
>slightly reduce the final carbonation level in bottle-conditioned beers.
>Lower than normal fill level DOES NOT cause overcarbonation as suggested
>by Charlie Papazian in his NCJOHB and can actually result in lower
>carbonation. IF, however, you overprime AND overfill, then yes, it may
>appear that underfilling causes overcarbonation, but actually, it is
>merely that overfilling is throttling the overcarbonation caused by
>overpriming.
>
I don't want to jump in Al's case, but seriously, folks, one experiment
does not a study make. Among the many reasons for doing multiple
experiments before jumping to conclusions is that they help cover
a wide range of variables. Right off the top of my head, I would say
that temperature would be a big one here, as would time, neither of
which could be addressed by one case.
The other problem, of course, is that others have experienced very
different results, and it's unfair to simply dismiss them as anecdotal.
For one, I've noted repeatedly that severely under-filled bottles (the
last one being filled, because I'm too cheap to pour out the last cup
of beer) DO have noticeably excessive carbonation, as well as a strong
tendency to oxidation and staling.
Time to draw in the real chemists; I suspect the question has to do
with gases staying in solution when there is available non-liquid
space, but, hey, I just barely squeaked through high school chem
class without blowing up the lab. ????
Sorry, Al, but there are real risks involved in publishing too early.
- --Jeff Frane
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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:29:16 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Keg sources
I am looking for a 5 gallon ball lock keg. Does anyone know where I can
purchase a few at a decent price and in reasonable condition ?
Cheers,
Ian Smith
isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com
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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:25:58 -0700 (MST)
Subject: sparge gravity at 1.010
When the sg of the sparge reaches 1.010 (or you can taste tannins) you
usually stop sparging right....?
My normal sparge wort temperature is approx. 150-160 F - should I wait
until it cools to 60 F to take a reading or is the 1.010 reading at normal
sparge outlet temperatures and does not need converting ?
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com
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From: Richard Walto <70410.1112 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Nov 96 21:39:11 EST
Subject: "that homebrew taste"
You folks are lovely,
I got so many responses as far flung as South Africa and Switzerland to my
"homebrew taste" problem. I would like to thank misters Gros and De Piro for
answering on these pages. If I put every one's suggestions to use I won't
recognize me which is probably a good thing. I feel like I've been stuck in old
habits for years and now I hear ideas that will really make a difference.
I have considered some of these suggestions before, but clearly they need more
looking into. The hot-side aeration possibility really kills me because I think
it could still be a problem. And the bit about protein rest breaking down those
proteins too small making a thin beer, blew my mind, but I'll try 'no rest'
next
time.
As another point, I would like to emphasize Mr. De Piro's question regarding
enhanced diacetyl levels. How would you do it? I've only heard of diacetyl
rests, necessary for lagers to *remove* diacetyl, for that cleaner lager taste,
but to enhance it?
And one question that I keep ignoring because I generally like my beers alot
and
figure it's not a problem is this: Why is my wort at sparge time so cloudy? Is
my 35 minute-sparge for 10 gallons too quick? Is the conversion
incomplete?(starch clouds?). I re-cirulate all during the mash. I don't see
why I should have to continue for 15 minutes at mash out, any way it would
still
be cloudy.
Rick Walton (not Walto, Compuserve's limit I guess)
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From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:11:52 -0500
Subject: Stir plates and starters
At 07:05 PM 11/11/96 -0700, Maribeth_Raines, Asst_Prof"
<raines at radonc.ucla.edu> wrote:
>>> IMO the stir plate method is the way to go for starters. Yeast cell
numbers are anywhere from 8 to 15-fold higher than with a conventional
starter.... minimal
chance of contamination....Well that's really another story. <<<<
Indeed it is. Please elaborate. To state the obvious for this list,
getting proper pitching rates is one of the tougher tasks of homebrewers.
Sounds like "just one more gadget, honey" will be all it takes for brewing
nirvana.
- -- Art
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From: "Welsch, John" <A069067 at MDCPO102.HB.MDC.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 19:59:00 PST
Subject: [none]
Been in the wings for a while so I thought I d comment:
I enjoy this forum tremendously. I find it informative when it stays
focused. My thanks to all who contribute
>Subject: Stainless in Seattle/temp control
> A friend has offered to make me a temperature controller for my
> refrigerator. As I recall, someone has a schematic for a controller
> somewhere on the net. Anyone know where?
> (following was posted previously and showed up as "none")
> Is anyone using the "no weld" false bottom-drain or thermometer
> fittings from Stainless in Seattle? If so, how do you like them? Any
> leaks, advantages/disadvantages? What do these items cost?
> Thanks-Randy in San Diego
For the temp control, I would recommend just purchasing one. They only cost
about $30-35, plug it in and your done. As for the false bottom, I use a
Stainless in Seattle weld in place 12 screen for a hop/trub filter in the
boiler. This thing produces very clear wort into the fermenter. For mash
usage I would get the largest diameter holes available and you should have
no problem.
> I'm considering buying a pump to re-circulate mash runnings up to
>170 deg, and to re-circ ice water during cooling. Any suggestions?
>Greg
>San Diego
I ve been using a March Manufacturing (Mod. MD-MTX3) for a rims system
without a problem. Rated for continuous duty and 180 deg. Local
distributors should be able to locate this model fairly easily. They cost
about $130.
John Welsch
Strand Brewers
Redondo Beach, CA
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From: "bob rogers" <bob at carol.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:43:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Sankey Kegs....
tim responded to eric's question:
> I chose to go the Sankey keg route rather than the corny keg route
> because I wanted the option of having commercially available beers
> available on draught, without having to use different equipment.
> setup. To LEGALLY obtain empty 1/4 barrels or 1/2 barrels is expensive,
yes, they are expensive, in fact i think they are more than the $35 a sanke
tap would cost. why not use corny kegs for homebrew and just buy a sanke
tap for the commercial brews? i would also think that it would be hard to
inspect the inside of a sanke keg (unless you can inject 180F caustic..
just my thoughts. i have also found that even though my fridge only holds
one corny, i can use more than one keg at a time, because the beer can sit
in the keg at room temp next to the fridge ready to swap in for a nearly
empty one.
bob: brewing in the heart of the bible belt
bob rogers bob at carol.net
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From: Phil Slotter <pslotter at ids.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:37:05 -0500
Subject: O2 Caps and Iodophor
Hi All,
Last night we were bottling a particularly yummy Strong Ale and decided
to use O2 barrier caps to facilitate aging in the bottle.
I seem to remember something about using O2 barrier caps with iodophor,
is it good or bad? I know I'm not supposed to boil them.
TIA,
Phil Slotter
Flying Goat Dog Pico Brewery
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From: "Kevin Sprague" <homebrew at ix23.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:42:23 +0000
Subject: beer systems
For all the questions on draught beer systems I hope this information
clears up alot of the answers/comments made here concerning the
professional dispensing of beer.
1) Remember the last time you purchased a keg of beer at your local
party store. You dispensed it with one of those hand pumps. What
happens is you pump air (the stuff we breath) into the keg and it
forces the beer out of the "cobra head" tap. Well, when the keg
didn't get completely emptied the night before, you go tap another
beer from it and the beer is completely flat and stale. The effect
of air on beer is well known. Staleing! The beer goes flat because
all of the CO2 comes out of solution into the headspace in the keg.
2) Commerical beer systems are comprised of several components but
for this expose the three main units are the CO2 tank, the AIR
compressor, and the AIR-GAS blender. Basically what happens is the
air-gas blender receives gas from the tank and what amounts to an air
compressor,
mixes them and feeds them into the keg. Now the purpose of the air
is to force the beer out of the keg. The purpose of the CO2 is to
keep the fizzies in the beer (by creating a pressure balance between
the CO2 in liquid and the CO2 in the headspace). Additionally, the
CO2 is heavier than the air and falls to the surface of the beer while the
air remains at the top of the keg filling the ever increasing air space.
3) As for Nitrogen, the prevailing theory (as Mr. Babcock pointed
out) is that nitrogen will not dissolve into the beer. Additionally,
nitrogen is inert and will not cause the staleing of the keg beer
(again the prevailing theory).
4) As for a blend of gas in the tank, any gas supply would happily
fill your tank with a blend of gas. However, this strikes against
commonsense. The whole basis of a beer dispensing system is that
gases will not mix. Thus the CO2 is in contact with the beer and the
air separates out in its own layer. So apply that to a tank and you
have the heavier gas settling to the bottom and the lighter gas at
the top where the gas is dispensed.
I don't claim to be an expert at beer system technology, however this
is how it was explained to me by my Perlick rep. And for those who
don't know who Perlick is, they are the people who make the beer
dispensing systems. Additionally, they supply all the big boys with
their brewery fittings, kegging fittings, etc.
Anyone with additional input please feel free to add and/or refute
any information.
Kevin
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From: "R. Wayne McCorkle" <wmccorkl at porter.psl.nmsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:28:24 -0700 (MST)
Subject: portable brew
I recently reveived the latest Williams Brewing catalog. They have a hand
pump that fits on the gas side of ball-lock corny kegs so that one may
take their kegged beer anywhere. Knowing that air is not good for beer, I
have the following question. Suppose I were to fill the head space with
CO2, then attach the hand pump to dispense. As I recall, CO2 is heavier
than air. Would it them form a layer between the beer and air. Of course,
I don't think that CO2 is impermeable to air, so it seems mixing would
take place. Any thoughts?
*******************************************************************************
* R. Wayne McCorkle EMail: rmccorkl at nmsu.edu *
* URL: http://essex.nmsu.edu/~rmccorkl/ *
* *
* College Professor Software Engineer *
* Mechanical Engineering, Dept. 3450 Computation and Simulation Division *
* New Mexico State University NMSU Physical Science Laboratory *
* Voice: 505-646-5733 Voice: 505-522-9236 *
*******************************************************************************
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From: "CHUCK HUDSON HEAD BREWER AND CO/OWNER OF HOMEBREW HAVEN ALBUQUERQUE NM." <CHUDSON at joplin.unm.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 8:02:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: RE: Stainless in Seattle/temp control
I have 8 of his false bottoms ain my BOP and they are great! They are very easy
to clean and do not waste a beer and RIMS with them is easier than befefore!
Standard disclaimers apply.
Chuck Hudson
Homebrew HAven Supplies and BOP
Albuquerque NM
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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:31:38 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Filter for beer
I would like to be able to filter my beer. What filters are available,
how much, can they be sanitized and backflushed ? Should I get one with a
disposable element like a coffee filter or one of those whole house
filters ?
Cheers,
Ian Smith
isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com
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From: Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:08:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Address for Lambic Digest
At 12:37 AM 11/14/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but I can't seem to find the address for
>Lambic Digest. I don't want the archives, I want to re-sub... (apparently
>you can't use that word to HBD without it bouncing). I know the procedure, I
>just need the current request address.
>
>TIA,
>Harlan
>
For the edification of all; Here is all of the sub/article/etc info from
the current Lambic Digest;
Send article submissions only to: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request@ engr.colostate.edu
Note that the request address is not an automated server. It forwards
to a real person who may not be able to process the request immediately.
Subscription changes often take 2-5 days, sometimes more.
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib at engr.colostate.edu
Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
Start with the help message above then request the index.
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib at engr.colostate.edu).
A new FAQ is under construction at:
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/lambic/lambic.html
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From: "Peter J. Calinski" <calinski at calspan.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:13:52 -0500
Subject: Newer Brewer wants to understand this fermenting experience
Last Saturday I brewed my 5th batch. I used a kit (what I used and my
procedure are below if anyone is interested). It seems that when I
transfered to the secondary fermenter, the fermentation rate suddenly
accelerated. Can anyone explain? If this is elementry, I apologize.
Anyway this is what happened. I measure the fermentation rate by the number
of seconds between "burps" of the fermentation lock.
3 hours after boil, it was burping every 6 seconds
18 " " " " " " " 3 "
28 " " " " " " " 3 "
48 " " " " Stopped. Over a 30 Min. peorid I detected no burps
although there was still some positive pressure observing the level in the
lock.
72 hours, I transfered to the secondary fermenter (6.5 Gal carboy) and dry
hopped with 1/2 oz of Columbia pellets tossed in the secondary before
siphoning.
After transfer to the secondary,
0.25 hours, burping every 1 second (surface almost boiling)
1.5 " " " 12 seconds
12 " " " 52 "
24 " " " 52 " (That was last night)
O.G.=1044 (at 78F)
SG to secondary 1006 (at72F)
I would like to understand what caused the secondary fermentation to take
off at a faster rate than the primary fermentation.
It seems a lot of the sugars were consumed already. How could it take off
like that?
I may have introduced a little air (a very small amount) during the siphoning.
Prior to siphoning, I took a few sniffs at the wort. If I got real close, I
couldn't inhale. I believe it was because of a very high level of CO2 at
the surface. I remember hearing that CO2 in the nasel passages turns to
carbolic acid and signals the body to stop the breath. Could it have been
some other vapors?
I drank the SG sample. Nothing strange but my mouth experienced a sensation
somewhat like that sensed when tasting wine. Like a slight sharpness or
chrispness.
Other details:
Mixture:
3.3 lbs John Barleycorn's Pilsner---expiration date in 1998
1.5 lbs DME Munton's extra light
1.5 lbs Corn Sugar (I know, I know, I should use all DME but I ran out)
4 Qts H2O + one malt can of H2O (to flush the can)
Boiled 15 Min.
Cooled with 1 Gal. chunk of ice made from boiled water (I was going to ask
if this was a bad thing to do in a post but I got pressed for time so I just
did it).
Siponed to Primary pail. I held the outlet end of the sipon hose 3ft. above
the surface in the fermenter to get some air into the wort. This always
gives me a good "head" on the wort.
Pitched the dry yeast that came with the kit onto the "head" in the pail.
Waited until the head and yeast settled into the wort then stirred it in and
sealed it.
Comments Please,
Private e-mail is fine.
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From: Curt Woodson <cdwood at lexmark.com>
Date: 14 Nov 96 12:22:30 EST
Subject: Motorized Stiring
Bryan Asks...
>Does any of you gadget people use a motorized stirrer of either your mash
>or your wort during chilling? I'd like to mount something on a lid to stir the
>wort, but don't know where to get either the stirrer, the motor, or how to
>connect them. Suggestions?
>
>
> - Bryan
> grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
> Nashville, TN
Bryan, here';s what I did. By the way I got this idea from the HBD a few years
ago. It works great as long as the mash is thin enough. I can't tell you all
how much the HBD has taught me about brewing the last couple of years. I read
and read about going all-grain til I had to do it myself!! Last winter I set
down and put together a 3 tier system with the steam injection and stiring
motor for the mash. All of the ideas came from other on the HBD. I AM FOREVER
GREATFUL!!! I mostly stay in lurker mode as I just barely have time to read the
HBD let alone append to it. A month or so ago I was about to sign off the HBD
as the noise and useless appends were the most of the content. Then things got
better!!! and today the HBD is once again a place where beginner and expert
brewers can ask questions, get a serious answer, and not be chastized for
asking. It is now a kinder gentler HBD, THANK GOODNESS!!!
I have a 10 gal Gott cooler that I put a motorized stiring paddle in. It is
powered by an Ice Cream Maker Motor. The motor is mounted to the top of the
cooler lid by a couple 1x3 pieces of oak boards, with notches cut in them so
that the motor sets on them just like it did on the ice cream bucket. Next I
took a dip tube from a converted keg and drilled a hole in the top of the
cooler lid that the tube would just fit into, The tube is larger at the top so
it doesn't fall in. Then I made a coupler from a wood dowel, 1 end is stuck
into the dip tube and I drilled and put a set screw thru the side to hold it in
place, the other end is cut square and fits the bottom of the ice cream
motor. At the bottom of the tube I have a 1x2 x how ever wide a gott cooler is
minus an inch for room to turn. Flatten the bottom of the dip tube with a
hammer and mount the board on it. I cut a thin slot thru the center of the
board by drilling a small hole then using a thin saw blade to cut a slot. I
use 1.2qts water/lb. of grain and can stir this most of the time. I have had to
start the motor with a pair of pliers to start it turning. I steam inject
thru a slotted copper manifold for a few min. then plug in the motor to
distribute the heat....works like a charm!
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From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:06:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Bottle of what?
I have had an eye opening experience, that I was wondering if the
collective could comment on.
When I made a starter for my last batch, I had a little left over wort,
so I proceeded to bottle it. It only filled up the bottle to about the
bottom of the neck (lots of head room).
After about a month and a half, I was ready to use this bottle of wort
for a new starter. When I opened the bottle a very strong PPHHHST
occured, followed by lots of FOAMING WORT flowing out the top (fortunatly
I was over the sink at the time).
Obviously it had been infected, even though I thought I followed a
rigorous cleaning routine. The funny thing about it, is the fact that it
did NOT smell bad, actually it hardly smelled at all!
Any clues, as to what caused it to, lets say, ferment? If it was
infected, should it not have smelled bad?
I poured a very small amount into a glass to see the color better, and it
about filled the glass up with foam. What little did settle at the
bottom, seamed to be a milkish brown color.
And lastly, No! I was not brave enough to taste it (the sink was right
there and it got dumped).
_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com
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From: bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:44:22 -0400
Subject: Re: An update on the Fill Level Experiment
>An update on the Fill Level Experiment:
>
>On 18 March 1996, I had my wife randomly assign numbers to glasses and
>four bottles of various fill heights and pour the same amount of beer
>into each glass. This was done in such a way that I could not even
>hear the amount of "fffft" there was from each bottle (and the amounts
>were obviously going to be different). My blind tasting of the four
>beers, simply on the basis of carbonation showed:
>Al.
Al,
You are the only person I know who makes blind AND deaf tasting.
Jacques
in Montreal
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From: Graham Stone <gstone at dtuk.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:46:40 -0000
Subject: In-line aerator
I use a counter flow wort chiller taking wort directly from my boiler to my
fermenting vessel (plastic, no infections, nuff said!) and until recently a
fish tank air pump and air stone. I use Chempro SDP for all my sterilizing
but found that it appeared to cause the air stone to disintegrate (unless
there's something odd about my ale!). Does anybody have a neat set up for
conducting the aeration "in-line" from a wort chiller rather than using a
air pump/stone dipped into the fermenting vessel? Alternatively, can
anyone confirm whether Chempro SDP is the cause of the air stone's demise
or perhaps suggest an alternative sterilizing agent, like bleach?
TIA
Graham Stone
Portsmouth, England
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From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:31:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Smoky roasted barley/lager yeast at ale temps/hop aroma/2-day allgrain
Here's a couple more topics from two weeks ago that nobody commented on:
Greg writes:
the Victory Circle recipe book). An article on Scottish Ales (SAs)in
Brew Your Own stated that peat-smoked malt was mistakenly used in
certain brewer's recipes for SAs, and the brewer's ended up with
something they couldn't give away. (BTW, the article noted that the
"smoky" flavor in the beer was actually from roasted barley).
I believe that's incorrect. Roasted barley gives beer a roasty/coffee-like
flavour and not a smoky one. Furthermore, I've read in *several* places
that the "smoky" flavour in some Scottish Ales was from the yeast and not
from any malt or grain. "Smoky" is one of the phenolic aromas (along with
"clovey") and there are a number of yeasts (Wyeast Scottish Ale, for one)
that lend a "smoky" phenolic aroma.
Regarding peated malt, I'm sure you've seen that there are various
"strengths" available and some smoked malts (like Weyermann's Rauchmalz)
can even be used for 100% of the grain bill.
Frankly, I've seen dozens of important mistakes printed in Brew Your Own
just like this one.
***
Kraig writes (after quoting an entire 20-line post):
>No good. You'll get bad flavors and off tastes using ale yeast at lager
>temps.
>
>Remember it's important to 1. use the correct yeast and 2. keep
>fermentation temps steady.
>
>If the temp will stay 60 degrees or above try Scottish liquid Wyeast.
The concern Tim had was whether it's okay to make a Porter with lager
yeast at 60 degrees. The answer is... it depends on the yeast. Some
lager yeasts will produce a lot of sulphury aromas *during fermentation*
at higher temperatures, but I've tried fermenting more than a half dozen
Wyeast lager yeasts at ale temperatures with excellent results. Wyeast
American Lager (#2035) makes some wonderful raspberry esters when you
ferment it at 68F. 60F seems like a fine temperature for Wyeast California
Lager (#2112) which is reportedly the yeast used by Anchor for their Steam
and *Porter*.
You cannot ferment ale yeasts at the lower lager temperatures (40 - 50 F),
but not because of off flavours, rather because they will just sit there
and not ferment the sugars. The size of the starter has a lot to do with it
in the high 50's F to low 60's F. Personally, I had a sluggish fermentation
with Wyeast American Ale (#1056) when fermented at 61-63F, but I only used
a 500ml starter in that batch. Others have posted in HBD that they got
great fermentations with #1056 even at 60F but they pitched much bigger
starters. The yeast actually generate heat during fermentation and I feel
that this has a lot to do with why my results differed from others'.
Finally, you can help out the ale yeast by wrapping the fermenter with
an old parka or blanket. This will hold in more heat. Oh yes... put
a couple of layers of cardboard between the fermenter and the cement
floor -- it can be MUCH colder than the air and direct contact will
conduct a lot more heat than simply air.
***
Cory writes:
First off a question on Hops. While I really think Hops is great I
would like for some brews to have more hop aroma and little to no hops
bitterness for the sake of diversity. I've tried some different
Hopping strategies with no luck. Any suggestions Hop types etc. that
might give more aroma with less bittering.
It's not the variety that affects whether the hops impart bitterness or
aroma, but rather when you add them to the boil. Hops boiled for only
a minute or two will impart aroma and that's about it. If you boil the
hops for 10 to 15 minutes, you'll get a little bit of aroma, quite a
bit of hop flavour and a small amount of bitterness. Boiling hops for
more than 30 minutes will boil away virtually all the aroma, most of the
flavour and give you mostly bitterness.
To get even more hop aroma, you can add the hops in the fermenter. This
is called dryhopping. You will read here and elsewhere that you need to
put the hops into a bag, but I don't. For many years, I would simply
toss the whole hops right into the fermenter when fermentation is just about
over. Two weeks is about the right amount of time to leave the hops. I
prefer whole hops over pellets because they float. Recently, I've started
putting a stainless steel screen over the end of my racking cane so that
I don't suck any hops into the bottling bucket or bottles, but for more
than six years I simply racked the beer out from under the floating whole
hops and rarely did any hops make it into the bottles.
You will also read that some hops are only "bittering hops" and others
are "aroma hops." You can use any hop variety for bittering and/or
aroma. Some varieties' aroma are simply more accepted than others.
John "Hopduvel" Isenhour once made 5 gallons of beer with a pound of
Pride of Ringwood hops. Yes, he even dryhopped with them. The resulting
beer smelled and tasted like a tree branch, but I would have to say the
beer was "unique-tasting" and not unpleasant.
***
Robert wrote (regarding splitting allgrain brewing into two days):
>Chunk 1: Clean/sanitize brew equipment
> Mash and Lauter
>
>Chunk 2: Boil
> chill and pitch.
>
Many have reported this method to work, but if you must do it in two
days, *personally*, I would try to do chunk 1 on Friday night and
chunk 2 on Saturday morning (shortening the time between the two chunks
to about 10 hours). Leaving the wort sitting around for 20 hours can
result in some nasties taking hold that will (of course) be killed in
the boil, but can produce enough off flavours/aromas to be noticeable
in the finished beer. One example is lactic acid. If you intentionally
pitch a lactic bacteria (even a handful of grain) at the end of chunk 1
you will certainly get a noticeable pH drop in 20 hours. It may not be
noticeable to the taste, but then again, it may. Some vegetive aromas
are known to be caused by what's called "wort spoiling bacteria" which
give slight vegetive aromas and then are killed by the alcohol. Their
effect can be minimized (to below smell threshold) by cooling quickly
and pitching a big starter. Slow cooling and long yeast lag times are the
usually the culprit. If you must wait 20 hours, then put it in the fridge
if you have the space -- this will slow down any life that did get into
the runnings and minimize their contributions.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
korz at xnet.com
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