---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  THe Stone?? ("JohnBoy")
  [none] ()
  Re: airstones (Andy Donohue)
  [none] ()
  RE: beer systems (Rick Dante)
  [none] ()
  Pumps and Mashing ("Welsch, John")
  [none] ()
  [none] ()
  re:fix HBD (Derek Lyons)
  mail order (George Smith)
  DO THEY EVEN KNOW THE HBD IS SCREWED UP? (Joe Rolfe)
  Gases Separating ("OMAHONEY, LARRY -LLOM")
  Pumps and an Inline Aerator Design (Marty Tippin)
  Re: Beer dispensing and gas mixtures (lheavner at tcmail.frco.com)
  Re: bottle filling ((Jacques Bourdouxhe))
  Air Stone Santization ((Steve Adams))
  Nitrogen settling in a tank... ("Pat Babcock")
  Mixed gas dispensing ((George De Piro))
  How to Serve Mead? (jim_anderson at email.state.ut.us)
  Heavy gas / corn question (Dave Hinkle)
  carbonation level ((BAYEROSPACE))
  Errors-To: bacchus at aob.org ((Harlan Bauer))
  Re: carbonation level (Wade Hutchison)
  Carbonation, Dicetyl, Irish Chocolate Stout (John Penn)
  Recycle that chiller water (3rd attempt and counting) (Tim Martin)
  Beer styles book? (Tom Lombardo)
  How to determine boiling wort level (2nd attempt) (Tim Martin)
  Homebrewed Rootbeer=Alcohol? (TheTHP at aol.com)
  Your Message has been received - and discarded! (Steve Alexander)

For SUBMISSIONS to be published, send mail to:
  homebrew at aob.org
For (UN)SUBSCRIBE requests, send mail to:
  homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org
  and include ONLY subscribe or unsubscribe in the BODY of the message.

Please note that if subscribed via BEER-L, you must unsubscribe by sending
  a one line e-mail to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L
If your address is changing, please unsubscribe from the old address and
  then subscribe from the new address.
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
For technical problems send e-mail to the Digest Janitor,
homebrew-digest-owner at aob.org.

OTHER HOMEBREW INFORMATION
  http://www.aob.org/aob - The AHA's web site.
  http://alpha.rollanet.org - "The Brewery" and the Cat's Meow Archives.
  info at aob.org - automated e-mail homebrewing information.

ARCHIVES:
  At ftp.stanford.edu in /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer via anonymous ftp.  Also
  http://alpha.rollanet.org on the web and at majordomo at aob.org by e-mail.

COPYRIGHT:
  As with all forums such as this one, copyrights are retained by the
  original authors. In accordance with the wishes of the members of the
  Homebrew Digest, posts to the HBD may NOT be sold or used as part of a
  collection that is sold without the original authors' consent. Copies
  may ONLY be made available at no charge and should include the current
  posting and subscription addresses for the HBD.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "JohnBoy" <Bong141 at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:14:20 -0800
Subject: THe Stone??

Howdy all, 
 
Just got myself a corny keg system and was wondering if the 
carbonating stone was worth the $25 smacks. It seems more 
economical for the C02, because force carbonating by rolling 
it around seems to waste the C02. 
 
Thanks in advance for your opinons! 
 
JohnBOy 

Return to table of contents


From: 
Date: 
Subject: [none]


Return to table of contents


From: Andy Donohue <andy2 at hogpe.ho.att.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:21:05 -0500
Subject: Re: airstones

>> Alternatively, can anyone confirm whether Chempro SDP is the cause of 
>> the air stone's demise or perhaps suggest an alternative sterilizing 
>> agent, like bleach? 
 
I can suggest an alternate airstone. I use a Tetra Luft plastic 
'airstone'. It is made of grooved rings and is adjustable for bubble 
size. It can also be disassembled for cleaning, costs about $2 and is 
guaranteed for life. 
 
Andy Donohue 
adonohue at att.com 

Return to table of contents


From: 
Date: 
Subject: [none]


Return to table of contents


From: Rick Dante <rdante at pnet.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:21:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: beer systems

 
Kevin wrote 
 
>commonsense.  The whole basis of a beer dispensing system is that 
>gases will not mix.  Thus the CO2 is in contact with the beer and the 
>air separates out in its own layer.  So apply that to a tank and you 
>have the heavier gas settling to the bottom and the lighter gas at 
>the top where the gas is dispensed. 
> 
>I don't claim to be an expert at beer system technology, however this 
>is how it was explained to me by my Perlick rep.  And for those who 
 
The Perlick rep sounds like he failed high school physics. The CO2 
isn't going to settle to the bottom with air on top like oil and water 
(what is air anyways?  20% O2, 70% N2, 10% *CO2* if I remember correctly, 
a *mixture* of gases).  The CO2 *is* going to diffuse into the air until 
the gas phase is a homogenous mixture. 
 
Rick 
       /-----------/ 
      /    ****   /                         ^ 
     /    /  /   /                         ^^ ^^ 
    /    ****   /              Rick Dante ^^^^^^ rdante at pnet.net 
   /    ____  /              Pinnacle Internet http://www.pnet.net 
  /    |  | INnacle      San Juan Bautista, CA          (408) 623-1040 
 /    |  | inTERNET 
/    |RE| serving the spirit of the internet!! 
 

Return to table of contents


From: 
Date: 
Subject: [none]


Return to table of contents


From: "Welsch, John" <A069067 at MDCPO102.HB.MDC.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 19:53:00 PST
Subject: Pumps and Mashing

 
Some thoughts, 
 
Richard Walto writes: 
 
>    When you have one of the those little March MTX motors like I do and it 
pushes 
>    something like 7-gallons per minute, you don't leave it on for the 
whole 
>    mash! 
 
I use just that model for a RIMS and yes, the pump runs for the entire time. 
 I control the output side of the pump with a ball valve and regulate the 
actual flow that way.  Being a magnetically coupled pump, restricting the 
output doesn t cause the pump any harm.  Running full time also eliminates 
the possibility of setting the mash when the pump cycles. 
 
Brew well and often 
 
John Welsch 
Strand Brewers 
Redondo Beach CA 
 

Return to table of contents


From: 
Date: 
Subject: [none]


Return to table of contents


From: 
Date: 
Subject: [none]


Return to table of contents


From: Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:59:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: re:fix HBD

At 09:24 PM 11/14/96 -0600, you wrote: 
>Al writes: 
> 
>>I find it very irritating that I have to check to make sure that posts 
>>actually make it into the HBD.  A response from aob.org is no guarantee 
>>that the post actually will make it. 
> 
>Yea, no kidding! I had 3 posts bounce back yesterday when I tried to ask 
>what the s-bscription address for Lambic Digest was--the bot thought I was 
>trying to s-bscr-be. (Apparently this word is forbidden) Then I get the 
>digest today and my post wasn't on it despite the confirmation. 
> 
>BTW, Derek <elde at hurricane.net>, how were you able to respond to my post in 
>the previous digest if it never got posted?? 
> 
 
Could it be that the bot does not check msgs that go out via the undigested 
form? 
 
Did my reply post make it into the digest?  (which contained the nasty word 
's__b___b_) 
 
Derek L. 
Bremerton, WA 
 

Return to table of contents


From: George Smith <smithg at panama.phoenix.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:08:58 -0800
Subject: mail order

I live overseas and I am trying to locate a mail order store in Flordia 
that sells bulk malt extract by the pound. 
 
Thkank You 
 
 
George Smith 

Return to table of contents


From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:14:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: DO THEY EVEN KNOW THE HBD IS SCREWED UP?

 i would have guessed the problem would have been fixed by now.... 
this none crap is getting very old..... 
 
my guess is they dont know it is broke, as "they - the hbd owners" 
have yet to respond with any inkling of what the hell is going on... 
 

Return to table of contents


From: "OMAHONEY, LARRY -LLOM" <LLOM at chevron.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:34:00 -0800
Subject: Gases Separating

Al writes: 
 
>That's simply not how gasses behave... I also thought that initially, and 
>it is intuitive, but really, gasses will diffuse into each other till 
>their concentration is the same throughout the tank.  Really! 
 
Yes, that IS how gases behave, at least in very large scale situations. 
I work in the petroleum and mining industries. Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) 
and CO2 occur naturally in both mines and wellbores. These gases settle 
into low lying areas, such as bowls, small valleys and petroleum storage 
tanks, displacing "normal" air. Personnel working in H2S and CO2 
environments must be aware of this and avoid low lying areas lest they 
are overcome by these poisonous (H2S) or suffocating (CO2) gases. Having 
experienced these effects firsthand, I can tell you gases do separate 
into layers. 
 
In a small pressurized environment such as a keg, the effect may be 
slowed to the point that is not noticeable during the short life of the 
batch of beer, but given time the gases will separate. 
 
Larry 

Return to table of contents


From: Marty Tippin <MartyT at geoaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:36:15 -0600
Subject: Pumps and an Inline Aerator Design

Richard Walto asks: 
>When you have one of the those little March MTX motors like I do and it 
pushes 
>something like 7-gallons per minute, you don't leave it on for the whole 
mash! 
> Do you? 
 
Yep.  But just because the pump can handle many gallons per minute 
doesn't mean you have to run it at that rate.  Most people use a ball 
valve on the OUTPUT side of the pump to throttle the flow back to a 
reasonable rate.  I've never measured the rate I use but it's probably 
around 1 to 2 gpm.  Much faster than that and you'll compact the 
grainbed and generally make a mess of things. 
 
Other people use a dimmer-type switch so they can forcibly slow the 
pump's motor.  The March tech guy I talked to said that was a bad idea 
and would be hard on the motor - something about being a single-pole 
design, whatever that means. 
 
As soon as I've mashed-in, the pump comes on.  And it stays on right up 
until the last drop of sweet liquor is sparged to the boiling kettle.  I 
think this is one of the secrets to the success of the RIMS systems and 
the typical high levels of extraction efficiency - I get around 90 to 
95% routinely from my system (although it's a bastardized RIMS - I use 
propane heat on the kettle instead of an electric element and fancy 
temperature control).  Plus the sweet wort is *unbelievably* clear 
during the sparge. 
 
/********************/ 
And regarding inline aeration, I've got an idea but haven't assembled 
anything yet - however, I did throw together a quick drawing and a few 
words in a web page - I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions 
regarding the design.  I'll be brewing a batch this weekend and may try 
to throw something like this together to see how well it works. 
 
The inline aerator is at 
 http://www.wwi.net/martyt/aerator.html 
 
Comments by e-mail should be sent to me at the address below - NOT the 
address I posted this message from (don't ask why...) 
 
- -Marty 
 martyt at wwgv.com 
 http://www.wwi.net/martyt 

Return to table of contents


From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:47:27 -0600
Subject: Re: Beer dispensing and gas mixtures

     Kevin Sprague describes commercial beer dispensing gear/gases and says 
     that a knowledgeable supplier has described to him how mixed gases 
     floating on the top of a keg will separate into layers based on 
     density.  I don't think I buy that.  There is a little fellow called 
     entropy who doesn't believe in creating order from disorder 
     spontaneously. [ Looks like my chem e training is showing ;) ]  Even 
     in a fermenter where the conventional wisdom is that heavier CO2 
     remains below lighter air pushing it up and out, the picture is 
     probably not that black and white.  There is undoubtedly some 
     diffusion going on between the CO2 rich layer and the air rich layer. 
     I don't know off hand or have the inclination to look it up, but the 
     diffusion in a still, closed fermenter at common fermentation 
     temperatures is probably small enough for the layering affect to have 
     gained credence. If you could actually do a test, you'd probably find 
     that there is actually a concentration gradient established vertically 
     in the head space.  Over time as "pure" CO2 enters the head space from 
     the fermenting wort and air rich mixture leaves the top, the average 
     CO2 concentration increases throughout.  What might be really 
     interesting for those with nothing better to do is consider what 
     happens to the O2 which is leaving the top via the airlock and trying 
     to stay in equilibrium with the wort below where yeasties are busily 
     munching on any available O2 in solution.  It is important to remember 
     that everything tends towards equilibrium, but seldom reach it.  That 
     is probably the best explanation for most of the technical 
     disagreements on this digest. 
 
     regards, 
 
     Lou Heavner 
     <lheavner at frmail.frco.com> 

Return to table of contents


From: bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:24:37 -0400
Subject: Re: bottle filling

 
Re: Deschutes/bottle filling 
> From Ted Hull 
> I just bottled a batch of beer using a Phil's Philler 
>and felt like it injected a lot of air into the beer as I filled 
>the bottles. Anyone else get this impression?... 
>Ted Hull 
 
Ted, 
 
I had exactly the same problem as you have until I saw one good article in 
Brewing Technique magazine about bottling ( sorry, I don't remember who 
wrote that article and what issue number it was ). 
 
1) Cut away the spring valve of your bottle filler and throw it away 
2) Using 3" of flexible tubing, connect the spigot ( you know, the cheap 
red one ) at the bottom of your bottling bucket to the rigid tube of your 
amputated bottle filler 
3) Insert the  rigid tube inside the bottle all the way to the bottom 
4) Gently control the beer flow with the spigot. 
5) voila 
Results: less airspace in the bottle, less foaming during bottling, the 
beer keeps fresh a lot longer , and...the judges give a higher score. 
IMHO  the comercial bottle fillers using a sprig valve create too much 
oxidation and foaming 
I hope this helps. 
 
Jacques Bourdouxhe 
Montreal 
 
 

Return to table of contents


From: paa3765 at dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 10:30:35 est
Subject: Air Stone Santization

Fellow Brewers: 
 
I use ID Carlson's <One Step>, which is purportedly a hydrogen-peroxide, 
environmentally safe, sanitizing agent. I've used it for a couple of years now 
and it generally goes easy on all equipment.  You use one tbs. per gallon and 
you don't have to rinse  because the residue breaks down into water.  It does 
form little bumps on glass, which can be removed with a vinegar solution,  if 
you allow your fermenters to soak in it for a while. Anyway, its real handy to 
have around and I use it for all my air locks, tubing, etc.  The amount of 
bleach I was using was bugging me, so I wanted to try something not so toxic. I
mix the stuff in a big bowl and just let my equipment soak for a few minutes or
so.  I can keep the bowl with me while I'm working and don't bother rinsing. 
It's really practical when you are doing quick jobs like dropping into a 
secondary. It cleans stainless very well too. I soaked my ten gallon coke can, 
which was really a mess from fermneting in it, and it ate up all of the residue
and sounding like a freight train coming through when it was working. You know 
I'm not affliated and all that junk, but I couldn't get much info on the stuff 
from the manufacturer or distributor when I started using it -- which kind of 
put me off -- but it works.  I pay about $15 bucks for 5 pounds of the powder; 
it comes in 8 oz bags for much more per pound, if you want to try it out. 
 
What kind of fish tank pump are you using?  Any recommendations? 
 
Steve Adams 
 

Return to table of contents


From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at ford.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:49:17 -0500
Subject: Nitrogen settling in a tank...

Greeting, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... 
 
In HBD #2275, Kevin Sprague comments on mixed gas delivery systems... 
 
I don't want to start the "the whole world would sufficate if this was true - 
ah, but you forget weather patterns" thread again. Rather than present 
thermodynamic and physical properties explaining why the gas in the tank is 
uniform, I'll rely on the anecdotal: 
 
o Many, many, many people use Aligal, beverage gas, et al without 
overcarbonating. This implies that the heavier gas does not settle out in the 
tank as the Perlick rep has suggested. 
 
o An idiot working for a company allied to a field remains an idiot. This is 
not directed at you, but at the Perlick rep. Unfortunately, many will lead 
you astray in the hopes of selling their system (perlick sells the air mix 
systems used to drive beers in bars) claiming to be an authority. 
 
Driving with a handpump introduces air in the headspace as you have 
indicated. In this air is oxygen. Oxidation is the source of your staling 
flavors - that and no control over the microbiota pumped in with each 
depression of the pressure bulb. The outgassing of CO2 does occur, but this 
only results in flat beer and the associated loss of "sharpness" the CO2 
bubbles give a beer. 
 
As for the CO2/airmix, these are generally intended for fast-moving product. 
hHe CO2 mix helps mitigate the effects of the air on the beer - after all, 
the air used is a higher percentage of CO2 - and, if properly set up will 
prevent the outgassing of CO2 in the beer. However, oxygen is still being 
introduced into the headspace of the keg, and oxidation will suredly occur. 
 
Just my $0.02. Couple with the last, you now have $0.04. Still can't buy a 
coffee... 
 
See ya! 
 
Mr. Babcock 
pbabcock at oeonline.com 

Return to table of contents


From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:30:47 -0800
Subject: Mixed gas dispensing

     Hi all! 
 
     Kevin writes in about commercial beer dispensing systems, and says 
     some stuff that I would question. 
 
     First, none of the bars I go to have an air compressor hooked up to 
     the kegs in any way.  Air in the kegs is a Bad Thing.  It introduces 
     bacteria, causes oxidation, etc. 
 
     Kevin also writes, " The whole basis of a beer dispensing system is 
     that gases will not mix." 
 
     Actually, gasses do mix (which is why we are alive and breathing), and 
     that is the basis for a mixed gas dispensing system.  As has been 
     discussed here recently, a mix of CO2 and N2 are used to push beer out 
     of kegs, through long tap lines, without over-carbonating the beer. 
     Air should never touch most kegged beer (cask-conditioned, handpump 
     drawn beer being a notable exception). 
 
     The sales rep that told you this stuff is pretty whacky! 
 
     Have fun! 
 
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY) 

Return to table of contents


From: jim_anderson at email.state.ut.us
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 09:09:00 -0700
Subject: How to Serve Mead?

Once again I find myself apologizing for straying from topic, but I just 
*know* I can find some help here. 
 
For quite some time I've considered making a mead, but I wanted to know 
what it tasted like before actually doing so.  I found a bottle at the 
local wine store, but alas, I have no idea whatsoever about how it 
should be served -- none of my books address the subject.  Specifically: 
what temperature and in what type glass? 
 
Since this *is* off-topic (and probably of little interest to the 
majority here) I'd ask that any replies be emailed privately.  Also, I'd 
appreciate any comments as to the particular brand I purchased -- 
Chaucer's. 
 
We now resume our regularly-scheduled programming .... 
 
  - Jim 
 
 
 
 

Return to table of contents


From: Dave Hinkle <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com>
Date: 15 Nov 1996 11:07:20 -0700
Subject: Heavy gas / corn question

Al K. comments on Kevin's post: 
 
>>air separates out in its own layer.  So apply that to a tank and you 
>>have the heavier gas settling to the bottom and the lighter gas at 
>the top where the gas is dispensed. 
 
>That's simply not how gasses behave... I also thought that initially, and 
>it is intuitive, but really, gasses will diffuse into each other till 
>their concentration is the same throughout the tank.  Really! 
 
Thank God for that (gas dispersion)! I'd hate to have all the heavy gases like 
ammonia, argon, methane etc. in our atmosphere concentrated at sea level. Kind 
of would make a day at the beach a bit of a bummer.  But seriously, gases will 
take a while to disperse in closed-systems were there are no air currents, but 
they will EVENTUALLY disperse (think of a fart in a closed elevator - OK, not 
the best example, but you get the idea).  Air currents in a keg would be 
minimized by not moving the keg, keeping temperature stable, not adding gas 
pressure/movement, and not dispensing the beer.  Violating any of these 
conditions would foil any attempt at creating a CO2 "blanket" on top of the 
beer by the resulting faster dispersion of CO2 & "air".  Once gases are dis 
persed (mixed), they don't "settle out" on their own.  I don't mean to 
oversimplify, but this is why CO2 is mixed with an inert gas like N for 
dispensing systems that require partial pressures of CO2.  "Air" is harmful * 
to beer stability, N isn't.  And gas dispersion in a dispensing system is a 
reality, no matter what the Perlick salesman says. 
 
* no flames from the CAMRA ranks, please! 
 
- --------------- 
 
Question: 
 
I want to make a corn-adjuct lager, and was wondering what is the easiest and 
cheapest form to use. Quick grits seem like a good possibility - does anybody 
know if they are pre-gelatinized, since "cooking" isn't really required?  I 
used flaked maize once, worked well although a slow sparge, but it costs quite 
a bit more than malted grain! Hardly a cost-saving adjunct in the flaked form, 
at least not when purchased from a homebrew store.  I know I could use regular 
grits (cheaper than "quick" grits), cooked before adding to the mash, but was 
looking for a time/money compromise.  If I use the quick grits, should I 
pre-cook anyway?  For how long?  Anyone ever mash quick grits w/o pre-cooking? 
How do you tell when your adjunct is gelatanized enough? 
 
Dave Hinkle 
Phoenix, AZ 

Return to table of contents


From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:21 -0600
Subject: carbonation level

collective homebrew conscience: 
 
tim martin wrote: 
 
 
>  To my chagrin I was considerably under the programs 
>default mash efficiency of 70%.  One recipe was 42% and the other 
>was 51%. <snip>I mash in a Gott cooler, single infusion around 155 degreesF, 
> Klages as 
>base malt, sparge with home made rotating Phil's arm, take hydrometer 
>reading after boiling and chilling to 65-70 degrees. 
>Is a 70% efficiency too much to expect after only four batches? 
 
no, 70% should be within reach. things you didn't mention that can affect mash 
efficiency are: 
 
 1. pH of the mash  (pretty crucial, actually, for good efficiency) 
 2. length (time) of saccharification rest. 
 3. length (time) of sparge. 
 4. the quality (coarse/fine) of the crush. 
        5. mash thickness  (not crucial, but it has some effect) 
        6. calcium content (AAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!) 
 
(number 6 is currently under debate here on the hbd) 
 
next time you brew, try adjusting the pH of the mash to 5.0 to 5.5 (this is a 
broad guideline), mash for at least 2 hours, sparge for at least 45 minutes if 
it's a 5 gallon batch (this does not include the recirculation and 
clarification period), and use 1 1/3 to 1 1/2 quarts of water per pound of 
grain in the mash (that's a medium thick mash).  also make sure your crushed 
grain is crushed enough so that you don't see a large percentage (>10% or so?) 
of uncrushed grains in the grist.  if your water supply has 50 to 100 ppm 
of calcium, don't worry.  even if it's a little under that range, you 
probably don't have anything to worry about.  soft water is not going to 
drop your efficiency from 80 to 40 per cent. 
 
if you do these things, you *should* see a rise in efficiency.  if you still 
have problems with low efficiency, there's something i've omitted.  but i 
think the above list has the basic guidelines for reasonable efficiency. 
 
 
 
>  If someone would like to take me to the 
>sidelines and couch me on this I would sure appreciate it. 
 
 
really, is there a need for psychotherapy?  i think not. 
 
regarding carbonation and fill level, i have experienced lower/slower 
carbonation levels with high bottle fills, relative to lower bottle fills 
from the same batch.  just my $.02. 
 
one hypothesis behind why this occurs is that pressure builds up more 
quickly in a small headspace than it does in a large one, and the higher 
pressure slows down yeast activity.  has this been disproven?  i haven't 
seen anybody mention it recently as a possible cause. 
 
brew hard, 
 
mark bayer 
 

Return to table of contents


From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:54:16 -0600
Subject: Errors-To: bacchus at aob.org

Bryan Gros asks: 
 
>What's the best way to insulate a converted sankey keg so that it 
>can still be heated on the propane burner, but the temperature won't 
>drop like a rock during the 1 hr. sparge? 
> 
 
Here are 2 possibilities, both available from: 
 
Illinois Fibre Specialty Co., Inc. 
4301 S. Western Ave. 
Chicago, IL 60609 
 
773-376-1122 
 
The first is rigid fiberglass duct insulation for 16-in ducts. Budwizer kegs 
are 16-in in diameter. This stuff is just like the 1/2-in pipe insulation 
the sell at Home Despot &c, but made of  rigid fiberglass and slides right 
over the keg. It's also slit lengthwise i.e., it looks like a big "C" if 
looked at from the top. It's available in 1, 1.5, and 2-in thicknesses. 
 
The second is a ridgid fiberglass board that is flexable in one direction 
only--it behaves just like bendable plywood. 
 
These people will deal with individuals, but they are primarily a commercial 
outfit. The also have a slew of other specialty insulations for very high 
temps.
 
BTW, I encased the fiberglass on my Mashtun in sheet aluminum--extra points 
for neatness. 
 
Hope this helps, 
Harlan 
 
   ********************************************************************* 
   *                                                                   * 
   *     Harlan Bauer              ...malt does more than Milton can   * 
   *     Carbondale, IL            To justify God's ways to man.       * 
   *  <blacksab at midwest.net>                         --A.E. Houseman   * 
   *                                                                   * 
   ********************************************************************* 
 

Return to table of contents


From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:29:30 -0500
Subject: Re: carbonation level

At 12:21 PM 11/15/96 -0600, you wrote: 
>collective homebrew conscience: 
> 
>tim martin wrote: 
  <<description of low efficiency mash deleted>> 
> 
>no, 70% should be within reach. things you didn't mention that can affect mash
>efficiency are: 
> 
> 1. pH of the mash  (pretty crucial, actually, for good efficiency) 
> 2. length (time) of saccharification rest. 
> 3. length (time) of sparge. 
> 4. the quality (coarse/fine) of the crush. 
>        5. mash thickness  (not crucial, but it has some effect) 
>        6. calcium content (AAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!) 
> 
>(number 6 is currently under debate here on the hbd) 
> 
>next time you brew, try adjusting the pH of the mash to 5.0 to 5.5 (this is a 
>broad guideline), 
 
Tim, 
What do you use to adjust the pH?, and how do you measure the final 
pH value (pH paper, I assume, but I'd like to know if you're doing 
anything else)  Thanks, 
 
 -----wade 
 whutchis at bucknell.edu 
 

Return to table of contents


From: John Penn <john_penn at jhuapl.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:56:47 +0000
Subject: Carbonation, Dicetyl, Irish Chocolate Stout

Thanks AlK for the carbonation experiment. My personal experience has 
only included normal carbonation and a very underfilled bottle.  The 
bottle with a large airspace was one of my early batches where I didn't 
want to waste any beer so I bottled about 2/3 of a bottle.  Well it 
wasn't worth the effort, not only was it fairly flat but it smelled and 
tasted bad.  I noticed another post with a similar comment about smell 
and taste of underfilled bottles, though AlK's experiment only concerned 
carbonation level.  Somewhere I read of another fill level experiment 
and as I recall the fill level seemed to have more affect on how quickly 
the beer carbonated rather than the final equilibrium carbonation level 
and taste. The test levels were very full and about normal fill. 
Certainly underfilling is bad. 
   Al Korz, thanks for the comments on getting dicetyl, I'll have to try 
that.  I hope to do a Scotch Ale soon trying for that butterscotch 
flavor I love so much in McEwan's Scotch Ale.  I'll use Wyeast 1084 
Irish Stout yeast this time.  Made a nice Scottish Ale with Wyeast 1728? 
but I wanted to get more dicetyl so I'll give your aeration during 
fermentation a try. 
  My Irish Chocolate Stout tastes pretty good though its only two weeks 
old.  I decided to repost the recipe anyway.  The coffee smelled 
wonderful while cooling the wort but there's no such smell now.  I can't 
really taste it so its probably optional.  Here goes: 
 
  Irish Chocolate Stout  5gal 
Estimated OG~1.073 Actual OG: 1.071 FG: 1.020 (~7%alcohol) IBU 55+ 
9.2# liquid light malt extract 
1# crystal malt (60L) 
1# chocolate malt 
1/4# black patent 
1/2# roasted barley 
4oz cocoa (12 TBs) 
1/4 cup steeped coffee beans (optional?) 
Bitter Hops (22-23 HBUs) 
Finish Hops 1 oz. 5 mins (Fuggles) 
Irish Ale Yeast 1084 
 
Steep grains 150-155F. Remove grains, bring to boil.  Add extract and 22 
HBU bittering hops, mostly northern brewer.  Added cocoa after about 15 
mins.  Added 1 oz finish hops in final 5 mins.  Removed from heat, added 
coarsely chopped coffee beans and began cooling.  Pitched yeast, 
fermented, bottled with 4oz dextrose (wt.). After two weeks its a very 
flavorful stout with a slight chocolate taste. 
 
John Penn 

Return to table of contents


From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:22:22 -0500
Subject: Recycle that chiller water (3rd attempt and counting)

Hey Neighbors, 
Just a reminder since we are discussing chillers (at least we were). 
Run your outlet hose into your clothes washer.  A great way to recycle 
water.  Not my idea but thanks to the person that thought of it. 
 
Tim Martin 
Buzzard's Roost Homebrewery 
"with that strong predatory taste" 
Cullowhee, NC. 
 

Return to table of contents


From: Tom Lombardo <favt3tl at rvcux1.RVC.CC.IL.US>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:57:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Beer styles book?

Last month I posted a question about the "definitive" oktoberfest beer, 
and I got some great responses.  Since then, someone started a similar 
thread on IPAs, and I found the responses equally entertaining.  So I 
started thinking, there must be a book out there that describes the 
classic beer styles, some commercial examples of each, and how to brew 
them. 
 
So, anyone out there know of such a book? 
 
Thanks, 
Tom 
 
*********************************************************** 
If at first you DO succeed, try not to look too surprised! 
                            Tom & Ray Magliozzi 
 
Tom Lombardo (FAVT3TL at RVCUX1.RVC.CC.IL.US) 
*********************************************************** 
 
 
 
 
 

Return to table of contents


From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:26:51 -0500
Subject: How to determine boiling wort level (2nd attempt)

Hey Neighbors, 
Question?  How do you all determine when to stop boiling your wort so 
that you don't over evaporate and condense your wort.  I use a tall 
selendrical SS tank to boil in with a propane cooker.  In the winter there 
is so much steam above my wort I am not able to see my mark inside my 
tank.  I always boil for an hour, which is a constant varibale but my 
propane cooker is a variable I can not control, so every batch is a 
different concentration.  This is a very annoying part of the process that I 
have not been able to tinker my way out of... so does anyone have any 
tricks, tips or suggestions? 
 
TIA, 
Tim Martin 
Cullowhee, NC 
 

Return to table of contents


From: TheTHP at aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:42:14 -0500
Subject: Homebrewed Rootbeer=Alcohol?

My new Big Brothers/Big Sisters "Little" has been very curious about my 
brewing set up. Not wishing to introduce, educate or get into the possibility 
of producing alcohol with minors I offered the root beer alternative. As it 
turns out, the recipes included with the kit calls for 4 lbs. of cane sugar, 
the extract, and a beer or bread yeast. Isnt this going to do more that 
"carbonize" the root beer? It also directs you to bottle immediatly. No 
wonder I've heard so much about homemade root beer bombs! I dont have a 
brewing calculator, but wont 4 lbs. of sugar in 4 gal of water produce A: a 
significant amount of alcohol (to a minor) and B: enough CO2 for an explosive 
situation? 
 
Another thought occurred to me, since I have a CO2 system (Corny Kegs) Why 
not keg it and force carbonate? If I used the above recipe I wouldn't I be 
overly sweet by the amount of sugar the yeast is supposed to consume? How 
much is that? Can any one out there help me? Would others that have made root 
beer mind relaying me their experiences?  Much would be appreciated. 
 
Phil Wilcox 
The Soon to be the "Mad Root beer Bomber" 
Frog Spit Sarsaparilla?...Barking Frog Birch Beer? Raniadae Root Beer? 
Poison Frog Home Brewery 

Return to table of contents


From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:06:48 -0500
Subject: Your Message has been received - and discarded!

 
The [none] gremlin eats most of my posts ! 
 
Al Korzonas responded re enzyme inhibition and the relevence of the 
mashout.  And I have to agree with his points with the following minor 
caveats ... 
 
Alpha-amyase does produce a small fraction of the fermentables ...  at 
the end of mash I expect this is negligible. 
 
Remaining AA may reduce the detrin mix a bit (more smaller dextrins) 
during a 1hr sparge, but I'm not sure what effects could be attributed 
to this.  There may be a role for these dextrins in head formation and 
the ever debatable "mouth-feel".  There is some evidence that 
malto-tetraose and perhaps some other larger carbos are lost(sediment) 
during lagering or aging, but this is far from clear. 
 
For case 3 with an intermediate mash temp you might have sufficient 
beta-amyase at the end to have an effect (tho' it's in doubt), but if 
you use a G.Fix 40-60-70 schedule this objection is moot. 
 
The elevated temps of the mashout seem to be responsible for an 
increase in some of the tertiary sugars in wort, like sucrose. Again I 
think we can safely neglect this.  This will happen in the boiler 
anyway I suspect. 
 
As a related topic ... 
 
I also have some doubts about how effective the increasing 
temperatures are on sparge extraction, the effects of increasing temps 
on phenol extraction are pretty clear tho.  I've seen references to 
papers that report good efficiency from very cold (near freezing) 
sparges - tho' I don't have the methodological details.  In the recent 
past I've been reducing my sparge water temps to figures in the 
65C-70C range without obvious losses of extraction, however this is 
after a normal mashout so the grainbed starts out hotter. 
 
After considering Al's reasoning I'm planning on trying a no-mashout, 
cool sparge experiment.  Not as simple at the no-sparge method, but 
simple enough.  Anyone been there ? 
 
I also have some published data relevent to this issue - will post later. 
 
Steve Alexander 
 

Return to table of contents