(formerly Volume 02 : Number 033)



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Contents:
  REMOVE
  White Labs yeast (Paul Edwards)
  War of the Worts - Judges needed!
  line cleaning
  Crystal Malt and Wort Fermentability
  RE The perpetual fermenter
  Newbie question
  Slow to no carbonation in the bottle
  SUMMARY - Brew Your Own Magazine
  Summary heating mash
  Re: DWC Aromatic vs Special B (Tom Gaskell)
  Recipies
  New RIMS Pictures
  Priming with Liqueur
  Re: DWC Aromatic vs Special B (Tom Gaskell)
  More on Husk material
  Potential temp probe for hackers
  Commerical Mead
  infection


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:40:33 -0500
From: Jim Phillips <jphillips at ravenet.com>
Subject: REMOVE

- -- 
Blues in a Bottle...
                           
Jim Phillips, Wilmington, DE                            
jphillips at ravenet.com                       
                      

- ----------
> From: Svetlana at Agency
> To: 
> Subject: [b] Free russian introduction service, St Petersburg
> Date: Thursday, January 16, 1997 5:31 PM
> 
> 
> 
>   SVETLANA INTRODUCTION & MARRIAGE AGENCY
>            St Petersburg Russia
>   ---------------------------------------
>   *4-year experience
>   *grown up informational base
>   *Visa-support
>   *apartments for lease
>   *interpreters
>   *Friendly English-speaking staff
>   ---------------------------------------
> 
>   Dear Friend,
> 
> We are glad to invite you to join our catalogue free*.
> Please send us your photo and ad profile by regular 
> mail**
> 
> Soon you will be get letters from nice, family-oriented
> Russian ladies, residents of St Petersburg. Please 
> visit our website for additional information.
>   
>   Find your fortune in St Petersburg !
>   With best regards,
> 
>   Svetlana Novikova, VP
>  
> **************************************
> SVETLANA Agency, St Petersburg
> 39 room 21/4 3-rd Sovyetskaya str.
> 193017 Russia
> http://www.isp-inter.net/svetlana
> **************************************
> 
> * Only for first thousand clients this service is free
> ** Please don`t use email for sending us your profiles:
> we can`t operated with 10 Mb or more of gifs or Jpgs.
> Please include your email address in your letter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The [b] means "bulk class mail", we put that there so you will 
> able to tell you have a bulk mail without having to open. We also put 
> that there so you can filter us out if you wish. Please put REMOVE in 
> the subject line and send your letter to remove at softcell.net if you do 
> not wish to receive mail from us again.

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:43:43 -0500
From: "P. Edwards" <pedwards at iquest.net>
Subject: White Labs yeast (Paul Edwards)

One of the local HB suppliers is touting a new product - White Labs Yeast.

The info sheet says some things that got me scratching my head, so I
thought I'd troll for information.

First, the info sheet claims that the vial contains 300-500 billion (yes
with a "b") cells.  Now, it looks to me that the vial has maybe an ounce or
so of slurry covered with some liquid.  I did a little asking around, and
came up with a density of yeast cells of about 1 million cells per
microliter of slurry.  That would make the volume of 300 billion cells to
be 300 ml or about _ten_ ounces.  My hb supplier says that White Labs uses
a "slow speed" centrifuge at 1200 g's to compact the yeast w/o injuring it.
1200 g's doesn't sound like "slow speed" to me, and I still don't think
you can get 10 ounces of yeast slurry into a one ounce vial.  Or am I all
wet here?

Next, the info sheet claims you can pitch the contents of the vial into 5
gallons of wort w/o making a starter.  While, you are undoubtedly getting
more viable yeast than w/ a swelled pack of Wyeast, I can't believe that
the amount of slurry in that vial is equivalent to the cup or so of thick
slurry I'm used to pitching.  One person claims that pitching right out of
the vial netted him an eight hour lag period.  Better than the 24-36 hours
one might get from Wyeast, for sure, but when I pitch a cup of slurry I get
about a 2-4 hour lag before visible signs of active fermentation.

Using the widely accepted pitching rate of 5 x 10^6 cells/ml of wort for
middling gravity ales, if the White Labs vial did indeed have 300 x 10^9
cells, then there'd be enough yeast for about 15 gallons of wort (at 100
percent viability), So, why an 8 hour lag time?

Lastly, the info sheet says that for best results, the yeast should be used
within fours weeks of packaging.  Yet, the package isn't dated. So I'm at
the mercy of a HB retailer who may or may not have my best interests in
getting a fresh product in mind when he sees dollars slipping away with
every passing day the product sits in his fridge.

I'm skeptical.  Have any of you used White Labs Yeast w/ or w/o a starter?
What are your experiences? What do you yeast guru's think?

- --Paul Edwards
  (pedwards at iquest.net)

"But if you just want go out drinking, honey, won't you invite me along,
please?"  - Janis Joplin, "Turtle Blues"

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 06:04:12 -0800
From: Alan Folsom <folsom at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: War of the Worts - Judges needed!

Response to the War of the Worts contest, Jan 18th, has been
overwhelming, we have at least 320 entries, far more
than we imagined possible.  The organizers appreciate
the response, but it leaves us with one problem:

     !!!!  WE NEED JUDGES !!!!

- -If you've signed up already to judge, thank you and please
be sure to attend.

- -If you're a BJCP judge and in the greater Philadelphia area,
why haven't you signed up ?!

- -If you're down in the Washington area, we have ONE judge coming
from there, where are all the rest of you?

- -If you're the organizers out on Staten or Long Island that want
ME to come judge in YOUR contests, hey, the turnpike has lanes 
going in both directions! It's only an hour or so from NYC.

- -Where are the judges from Northern NJ?

We provide all stewards and judges a hot lunch, a souvenir 
pint glass, and hopefully a good time at one of the best brewpubs
in the area.

If you'd like to help out, you can contact me at:

	Alan Folsom	(215) 343-6851	folsom at ix.netcom.com

or our judge coordinator:

	Rich Rosowski	(215) 674-1278	richroso at msn.com

Hurry!  (and thanks)


Al Folsom
Competition Organizer
	

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:07:21 -0800
From: brewmaster at cyberportal.net
Subject: line cleaning

Running idophor is not enough to clean lines. I clean lines for bars
and pubs using line cleaner. You would be shocked at the amount of crud,
slime and stone that builds up in the lines and tap heads even the light
beers!. I dissassemble all fittings and brush clean them and flush the
lines for 15 minutes with line cleaner followed by a couple of fresh
water flushes. After flushing a few times with fresh water I lubricate
all rubber seals with a very light coating of "Petro Gel" a food grade
lube that is tasteless and impervious to water. Then I reassemble the
whole thing and test for leaks. I perform this about every 8-10 1/2 kegs
or a minimum of every 30 days. If you have a hard time finding line
cleaner I can send some to you. With corney kegs I recomend a
dissasembly of the in and out fittings and scrub the springs and tubes,
& lube the seals. Make sure you flush well with fresh water, line
cleaner is stong stuff. 
		Jon

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:22:17 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <kdldmd at lightspeed.net>
Subject: Crystal Malt and Wort Fermentability

How does the use of crystal malt effect wort fermentability and the final
gravity of the beer?
 
For example, if 100% pale ale malt is mashed at 151 deg F producing an OG of 1.050,
the wort will contain 71% fermentable sugars (using Fix's numbers) and the final
gravity = {((1 - 0.71)X50)/1000} + 1.0 = 1.014.  However, what is the final gravity of
the beer if the grist is composed of 90% pale ale malt and 10% crystal (40 deg L)
by weight?
 
I read somewhere (HBD?) that only 50% of the sugars from crystal malt are fermentable.
If this is true, the final gravity for the above example would be:
 
malt       % of grist   % fermentable sugars
- --------   ----------   --------------------
pale ale          90%                   100%
crystal           10%                    50%
 
final gravity = {{50 - {0.71 X [(0.9 X 1.0) + (0.1 X 0.5)] X 50}} / 1000} + 1.0 = 1.016
 
Maybe this isn't such a big deal to some, but I sure would like to know how the crystal impacts
the final gravity.  Any insights here?
 
Kyle
Bakersfield, CA
KDLDMD at LIGHTSPEED.NET

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:48:00 -0600
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at HOOD-EMH3.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: RE The perpetual fermenter

Ken's late night conjecture on the perpetual fermenter actually
dredges up an old thread.  For those of you old enough to
remember the "Beer in Spaaaaaaace" thread, this issue
came up in the "Beer Cell."  This involved borrowing
technology from fuel cells and applying it to brewing
in a microgravity.  Yeast slurry in one end and wort
in the other then beer and CO2 from the center of the
reaction cell.  Some engineer wanted to actually
design it using selectively permeable membranes, but
then the thread petered out.  It occurs to me that a
tank to tank gravity driven fermenter would be easy.
Akin to the three tier breweries advertised in the magazines.

Daniel Goodale (darn good lagers as well)

The Biohazard Brewing Company
Home of the zero-g "brew in a lung" spacebrew kit. 

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:54:55 GMT
From: Matthew Arnold <mra at skyfry.com>
Subject: Newbie question

Hello fellow homebrewers,

My wife and I have just begun trying our hand at homebrewing. Our
first batch is fermenting merrily away as I speak [pause for
applause]. After this run, I have a couple of questions:

1) We're talking about getting a new stove. The one we have is an
ancient (and I do mean ancient) built-in electric. We were weighing
the positives and negatives of gas vs. electric. One of my concerns is
whether or not the newer electrics can put out enough power to boil
large amount of fluid (read: for brewing). This old electric had all
it could do to keep our water boiling. It would be easiest and
cheapest to get an electric, but I wanted to get the opinion of the
experts. FWIW, I would eventually like to get into all-grain brewing,
but that's a ways down the road.

2) When we were making this first batch I got to wondering. Most
people say to boil the extract in 1.5-2 gallons of water and put the
remaining amount in the carboy. Fine and dandy. But how do you get
that water sanitized? It seems like it would be infection-city. We
only did a 3 gallon batch this time so we just boiled the whole thing,
but it will be an issue next time (especially if this one turns out
well!). I read something saying to boil it the day before and put it
in a container in a fridge or something, but how then would you keep
it from being re-infected?

One nice thing about being up here in the "frozen tundra" of northern
Wisconsin is that the barely positive temperatures and abundant snow
hills make excellent wort chillers!

Thanks for the help!
  Matt

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:49:46 -0600
From: "BJM (Manbeck, Brad J.)" <BJM at roisysinc.com>
Subject: Slow to no carbonation in the bottle

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I have a bit of a dilema concerning slow to no carbonation heppening in   
the bottle. I wanted to share my observations and see if anyone had any   
suggestions or had experienced this same problem.

I brewed a brown ale back on Dec 9 that I racked to the secondary on Dec   
15. I didn't get around to bottling until the 5th of Jan (Three weeks in   
the secondary). Now two weeks later, the beer, in the bottle, has yet to   
carbonate. None of my previous batches (approximately 20) have taken this   
long to carbonate. I don't know what happened. I used my standard priming   
procedure 3/4 cup corn sugar.

I have three theories on why this happened.
1. The majority of the yeast settled out in the secondary and there isn't   
enough left to carbonate
2. Somehow some residual bleach remained in the bottling bucket and   
killed the yeast (the beer doesn't have any bleach flavors at all,   
though)
3. I forgot the corn sugar all together (VERY unlikely)

Now what should I do? I am comfortable waiting for a while yet to get   
carbonation. If no carbonation comes what are my options?

Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in   
advance. Private e-mails are welcomed.

Brad Manbeck (bjm at roisysinc.com)  
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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:57:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Frosty <frosty at cstar.ac.com>
Subject: SUMMARY - Brew Your Own Magazine

Thank you everyone for your great responses.  The HDB is alive and kickin'

Anyway, I just wanted to summarize for everyone what the consenses was
from all of the emails I received (thank you!).

Most of the people liked BYO.  However, most people did not really use it
for any technical contect, mostly interesting articles at a good value.
People said that they read it in a day as oposed to others magazines
(such as Zym and BrewingTechniques) which took much longer.

Also, about 1/2 the people who wrote me recommended Brewing Techniques
very very highly.  It is a different audience than BYO, but very good.
Brewing Techniques apparently is a technically oriented magazine, as
opposed to BYO which is a much higher level, beginner oriented magazine.

The best advice was to just buy both.

My decision was to subscribe to Brewing Techniques and in a month or two
maybe subscribe to BYO (Getting married sure costs a lot of
money...limited brewing funds!).

Thanks again for all your help!

Frosty da Brewer

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Fross                                     Network Systems Engineer
frosty at tp.ac.com                                       Andersen Consulting
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:00:42 -0500
From: Bill Rucker <brewzer at peanut.mv.com>
Subject: Summary heating mash

First, I would like to thank all who answered my questions about my brewery
design.  As I suspected, I am not the first to think of this design. Others
have been using it successfully for some time. 

The thread from last years digests regarding heat tranfer of mash pumped
through a pipe surrounded by water heated by an electric element (Ken
Schwartz and Charlie Scandrett I believe) motivated a few folks to try
their hand at this. 

I guess to make it somewhat short, it works and it works well. Those I have
had conversations with say that there are no ill effects and much to the
contrary, the wort is easily heated and there is no scorching to speak of. 

The ideas to come across my email are:

Keep the wort flowing fast enough through the coil to prevent too long of
contact between heat and enzyme-laden wort. Don't want the little beasties
being denatured.

Make sure that your pump is of sufficient power to pump all the liquid
(somewhat viscous) through all the tubing in the heating coil. Also, make
sure the id of the tubing is at least 3/8" to allow unrestricted flow. 

Once the mash is at temperature and stable, recirculating can stop. Running
the wort through recirculation can couse heat loss if tubing is not
properly insulated. And there really is no need.

The temperature of the water bath should not approach boiling. It is
probably good to keep it at or around normal sparging temps. That way there
will be no need to change it for those that decide to use the water bath
water. Ready made sparge water. 

Monitor temps and keep an eye for when to back off on the heating cycle.
This will be done manually in my system as I don't want to get into mov's
or pump speed controllers. Best places to watch temps, inlet of mash tun,
outlet of mash tun, body of mash, body of water bath. Watching the inlet
and outlet of the mash tun will let you know what the temp delta is going
through the coil. 

Have fun. Most important part of brewing often overlooked. I think Keith R.
was right, sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. Do what is
necessary and enjoy the fruits of your labor. 

I will have most of what I come up with on my web page at sometime in the
future. I want to build the system and then work on that. Can't do too many
things at once ;-)

Cheers,
Bill

Thanks to Randy Mosher for getting me Jims email address, he has been a
tremendous amount of help.





Bill Rucker

Seabrook Station - Computer Engineering
ruckewg at naesco.com

Home - brewzer at peanut.mv.com

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 11:02:02 EST
From: tgaskell at syr.lmco.com
Subject: Re: DWC Aromatic vs Special B (Tom Gaskell)

In the recent HBD, Charley Burns asks about the difference between DWC's 
Aromatic Malt and their Special B:

> I went to buy some Belgian Aromatic and the homebrew shop owner said 
> that it's the same as Special-B and sold me some.

As George Carlin once remarked, "Au contraire, mon frere!"

Aromatic is a more highly kilned version of Munich, and will produce wonderful, 
but subdued (when compared to decoction mashed German Munich), malty aromas 
and flavors, even when infusion mashed.  I suppose that if you really wanted to, 
you could use a large proportion of Aromatic in the grist; maybe up to 30%.  If 
my brain hasn't flushed it, I believe that the color is about 26^L.  It has some 
diastatic power (enzymes), enough to convert itself, but it is minimal.

Special B is a whole 'nother ball game.  It is a crystal malt (no enzymes) that 
is highly kilned to a color of about 120^L, or more.  In small quantities, it 
lends a reddish color to the wort, and a raisiny, caramel sweetness.  With 
Special B, tread lightly, in grist percentages over about 3 - 5%, its character 
can be overwhelming.

Special B is delicious to eat, right out of the bag!

Personally, I am a big fan of both of these malts, but I am very careful 
not to confuse them.  There are BIG differences!

I will reserve comment on my opinion of your local shop owner.

Cheers, 
 
Tom Gaskell  tgaskell at syr.lmco.com  Hog Heaven Homebrewery  Clayville, NY, USA

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:04:24 -0500 (EST)
From: MOREYEEL at aol.com
Subject: Recipies

Hello to all.
I am currently making a home page for our Homebrew Club the Unfermentables
and would like to increase the number of recipies that we have. I would
appreciate any recipies you would like to contribute.

Please Email them to me
moreyeel at aol.com

btw the URL for our page is http://members.aol.com/moreyeel/beer/index.htm

it is still underconstruction but worth a look

thanks in advance for your help

Jeff Parker
- -----------------------------------------------------
This Space for Rent
- -----------------------------------------------------

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Date: 16 Jan 1997 08:15:21 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at axel.vigra.com>
Subject: New RIMS Pictures

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted as well.


I have finally completed the taking of pictures of my current RIMS
system, have scanned them and have put a good bit of effort into
making them into a fairly informative WEB page.  If you are interested
in closeup details of a RIMS system, check it out.  Follow the links
from my homepage below.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 08:54:50 -0800
From: Matthew Taylor <mtaylor at mail.valverde.edu>
Subject: Priming with Liqueur

I've been reading through some of the brewing books I got for Christmas and have found that two of them suggest  
using Liqueurs as a way to prime a fruit beer, or any other flavor for that matter.  Both books said a 750ml bottle is  
enough to prime a 5 gallon batch, and only increase the alcohol by 1%.  Has anybody out there tried this before?   
How did it work out?  I got this crazy idea to do a chocolate porter primed with Creme 'de Menth.  


Thanks  for the input

Matt Taylor
mtaylor at valverde.edu

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 09:20 PST
From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: DWC Aromatic vs Special B (Tom Gaskell)

At 11:02 AM 1/16/97 EST, tgaskell at syr.lmco.com wrote:
>In the recent HBD, Charley Burns asks about the difference between DWC's 
>Aromatic Malt and their Special B:
>
>> I went to buy some Belgian Aromatic and the homebrew shop owner said 
>> that it's the same as Special-B and sold me some.
>
>As George Carlin once remarked, "Au contraire, mon frere!"
>

He also said "and where is the hair on a pear? no where, mon frere".

>From the album "George Carlin, AM/FM, 1972".

Thanks Tom. The homebrew shop owner is a respected brewer in a large town. 
I'd like to correct him before he steers more people in the wrong direction 
but I'm not sure how to approach him. His club (he's president) hosts the 
annual state fair competition, don't wanna alienate him.

Charley
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems
Elk Grove Unified School District
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax)
http://www.innercite.com/~cburns/

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:48:46 -0600
From: Bill Giffin <billgiffin at maine.com>
Subject: More on Husk material

Top of the morning to ye all,

Husk material in your beer can cause your beer to be astringent.  This is
what I have been told when I talk about properly crushing the malt with
a Corona.  Some folks have expressed a concern that you would
fracture the hush thereby adding more husk material to the wort.

When I stated that more husk material could wind up in the wort when
you have poor mash efficiencies this same person couldn't see anything
wrong with adding more malt to the mash.  In fact he gave a reference
to  no sparge brewing as his justification. The problem with this
argument is that the mash in a properly conducted no sparge mash has 
a pH of about 5.3, well below the pH that would easily extract tannins
from husk material.  Guess that argument doesn't hold water.  

If you brew two beers where everything is the same except for the
amount of grain, then the beer that has the most grain will have the
most husk material in the wort.  And as  I  have been told many times
this is not a good thing.  

There are a number of way that the amount of husk material  can be
reduced in a mash.  but as it really isn't of concern should I trouble
myself with this.  Yes if I want to brew great beer.

Bill

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:58:42 -0500
From: Mark Montminy <markm at dma.isg.mot.com>
Subject: Potential temp probe for hackers

The recent discussions on temp probes reminded me of something I ran across at 
Christmas.  I bought a Davis weather station for my wife.  In the catalog, 
they list 1 or 2 stainless steel temp probes for $15-20.  They come with a 
good length cable (~20-30 ft).  I'm not sure what the temp range is, nor the 
electrical interface, but for anyone who's curious, they're on the web at 
www.davisnet.com.


- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Motorola ISG Cable Data Products Group  Email:  markm at dma.isg.mot.com 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The difference between science and the fuzzy subjects is that science
requires reasoning while those other subjects merely require
scholarship.
		-- Robert Heinlein

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:46:15 -0800
From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Commerical Mead

     Does anybody know of any sources for commercial or homemade mead in
     the Austin area that I could sample?  Would anybody like to offer 
     advice or opinions on the best way to utilize this honey windfall? 
     Would any Central Texas meadmakers want to trade some honey for
some 
     mead?  Private e-mail is probably most appropriate.
     
Look for a brand called "Chaucer", it an OK tasting mead, although i
believe its a sweet mead as opposed to a dry mead.  you might also want
to subscribe to the mead lovers digest for a while (much lower volume,
but more specific)

also if you have web access, you should definatly read this book/webpage
http://www.best.com/~davep/mme/pub-page.html

some other good links are....
 - http://www.tiac.net/users/drbeer/joyce/mead/BeesLees.txt a collection
of recipes and tips
 - http://www.ofps.ucar.edu/~sobol/ris_mead.html Unicorn Unchained
Meadery, recipie, and stuff. nice place
 - http://www.atd.ucar.edu/rdp/gfc/mead/danspaper.html technical
discussion about mead

good luck

Brander Roullett        badger at nwlink.com        www.nwlink.com/~badger/

For a quart of ale is a dish for a king.  -William Shakespear

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Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:33 -0600
From: BAYEROSPACE <M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com>
Subject: infection

collective homebrew conscience:

al k wrote:

> There are probably several hundred thousand
>wild yeasts and bacteria in 2 gallons of air in even the cleanest house.
>The question is: do any of those wild yeasts and bacteria multiply fast
>enough and make nasty-enough byproducts (like phenolic aromas) to ruin
>your beer?  I know that, in the summertime, in my house, they most certainly
>do.  Therefore, I switched to fitered air and then oxygen for aeration
>and the problem went away -- I can now brew confidently in the summer
>without my English Bitters smelling like Bavarian Weizens!


well, i don't brew in the summertime, so i have no summertime data to draw
upon, but i have never had infection problems using 2 gallons of headspace air.
i guess my air must be cleaner than al's.

despite this, i'm moving to filtered air for more aeration, in addition to
the 2 gallon headspace shaking method.  i need more air.  i'm debating
putting together a flotation tank.

question:  i have some kegs, and i was cleaning one out last night, and i 
took the gas fitting off and disassembled it, removing the little gas "dip"
tube and the poppet valve.  i had to press on the head of the poppet valve to 
get it to come out of the fitting.  

after i cleaned the fittings/pieces, i put them back together and installed the
fittings/lid back on the keg, so i could shake some cleaning solution around
inside the keg.  i noticed liquid was leaking from the gas fitting, from the
poppet, so i cranked the fitting down with my wrench to tighten it even 
further.  this stopped the leak, but upon disassembly, i noticed the little
"legs" of the poppet valve (which fell out of the fitting easily this time),
were slightly damaged.  i had tightened the fitting down so much that the 
legs had gotten pinched and twisted in the threaded parts of the fitting/keg.

my questions are:  what do i need to do to get this leaky poppet valve situation
rectified?  are the poppet valves supposed to sit up even higher in the fitting
so that the little legs don't get damaged by massive tightening?  should i
use more o ring gaskets on the gas tube?  when reassembling the poppet valve
and fixture, do you just put the poppet valve in place loosely and expect the
top of the gas tube to push it up into its proper position, or are you 
supposed to "jam it" up in the fixture somehow so the little legs are up and
out of the way of the threaded part of the fixture?

also, this happened on one of my kegs with a plastic gas tube (the little tube
that extends an inch or two down into the tank).  some of my
kegs have metal gas tubes.  does this make a difference?  is metal better? 
does a metal tube keep the little legs of the poppet valve from getting damaged
when threading the fixture on?


brew hard,

mark bayer




Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 97 15:28:32 EST
From: John Chang <75411.142 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Making starter wort

Greeting!

I am planning to brew next weekend and need to prepare some starter wort in
order to step up to my normal 1 litre starter.  I have always used "canned" wort
that I made from LME (from Dave Miller's Book).  

This time I will be making starter wort from a bag (3 lbs) of amber DME.  I have
read on the HBD of brewers that make up a cup of starter at a time.  Does anyone
have a routine (recipe) that works for them?  I will be using hop pellets (cause
thats what I got in the fridge).

TIA,

John

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:40:57 PST
From: "Edward J. Steinkamp" <ejs0742 at dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Brew your own

I do not subscribe to Brew Your Own and I got the same mailer. I
do however subscribe to Brew Techniques and am very satisfied. In
fact, I've never gotten one that I haven't read cover to cover.  I 
am constantly referencing back issues for the CO2/temp charts
for kegging, the "brewing in style" articles pertaining to specific
types of beer, etc.  My original recipe spread sheet was
basically copied from one of earlier issues.  I don't know how 
good Brew Your Own is, but it would have to be very good indeed
to be better than BT.  JMHO

Ed Steinkamp

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:39:45 -0800
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: Wyeast 1968

Well just to offer a counter-point, I can't stand Wyeast 1968.  I
think most people have outlined the reasons why: flocs like hell, very
narrow temp. range, low attenuation, heretical aeration needs.  Why
bother?  I much prefer Wy1028.  To each his own.

SM

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:52:56 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: mash thickness and mouthfeel

Al K writes in response to Jean-Sebastien ...

>>I'm wondering what effect mash thickness (1qt/lbs vs 1.1qt/lbs) has on
>>body.

>The difference in thickness to cause a noticeable amount of difference is
>much greater (I don't have my copy of MBS or Fix here, but I'm sure that
>"thin" would be at least 50% more water than "thick").

Al is on target.  Selected data below is from Table 9.11 from M&B Sci, 2nd
edition data by Hall, quoted by Harris.  I have converted the
thickness measure to quarts per pound of grist.

]wort analyses (maltose expressed as % of wort solids, soluable Nitrogen as
]% of wort solids)
]
]Mashing Temp          60C(140F) ==================
]Mash Thickness qt/#   .72qt/#       1.23qt/#     1.65qt/#
]maltose %             43.9          48.3         49.5
]soluable N            6.2-6.6       5.34         5.50
]
]Mashing Temp          65.6C(150F) ================
]Mash Thickness qt/#   .72qt/#       1.23qt/#     1.65qt/#
]maltose               38.8          43.9         42.8
]soluable N            5.58          5.22         5.03
]
]Mashing Temp          68.3(155F) =================
]Mash Thickness qt/#   .72qt/#       1.23qt/#     1.65qt/#
]maltose               36.9          37.0         39.0
]soluable N            4.90          4.77         4.85

Note that for extremely thick mashes of column 1 there is a drop-off
in the amount of maltose produced compared with column 2 - normal mash
thickness.  I find M&B Sciences statement that beta-amylase is more
effective in thick mashes a bit hard to justify by comparing column 1
and 2.  Comparing columns 2 & 3 (normal and somewhat thin mash) there
is a drop-off in maltose at the intermediate mash temperature of 150F
for thin mashes.  It is possible that this trend continues for very
thin mashes of say 2 to 3 quarts per pound - in which case the
statement has justification.  I understand that some traditional
decoction mashes used thin mashes around 2.5 qts / pound.

As far as proteases are concerned, check the soluable nitrogen figures
above.  Nitrogen (mostly from  protein) is greater for the thicker
mash at every temperature, and very much greater for the thick mash at 
140F.  Having said that, M&B science notes that despite previous
assumptions, quite a bit of nitrogen is soluabilized in the mash for
even pale ale malt due to the action of carboxypeptidases which can
survive higher temperates that the endo- and exo-peptidases of the
traditional protein rests.

If you want extra soluable protein for body, a thick mash rest at
55C-62C/131F-143F should help considerably.

Steve Alexander

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:47:09 -0500
From: Tom Neary <thomas.neary at peri.com>
Subject: 5 litre mini keg taps

While on the subject of 5 litre mini kegs.  I've had a party king tap by
Fass Frisch (the plastic CO2 type) for about a year now.  I've used it to tap
12-16 mini kegs.  Just recently the CO2 cartridges have begun to drain 
overnight when not in use.  Everything seemed to be screwed in tight.  This
happened on the last three kegs tapped.  Every night the CO2 cartridge would
drain empty.

Does anybody know what can be causing this phenomona?


TIA

TN

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:44:21 -0600 (CST)
From: "W. Scott Snyder" <w-snyder at students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Maple Syrup

Anyone have any pointers on adding Maple Syrup to your brew?  I'm 
thinking specifically of a Maple Porter (ala Pete's Wicked).  How much 
syrup to use?  Should I add it late to the boil or does it matter?  Is 
there a specific type of syrup to use and/or avoid?

Any and all comments and suggestions greatly appreciated...

- - -Scott


            ______________________________________________________
  _________|                     |                                |_________
  \        |   W. Scott Snyder   | Ask not whether you believe in |        /
   \       |       "Cosmo"       | Dragons, but rather, whether   |       /
    \      |                     | Dragons believe in you...      |      /
     \     |------------------------------------------------------|     /
     /     | E-MAIL -  w-snyder at uiuc.edu                          |     \
    /      | URL    -  http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~w-snyder/    |      \
   /       |______________________________________________________|       \
  /____________)                                               (___________\

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:45:24 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: re Boiling Wort, a reply and a question (S.Alexander)

George De Piro writes ..
>     In the last digest somebody from down under asked if boiling is 
>     necessary, or if it is enough to just heat the wort to near boiling.

M&BS and several other sources indicate that a rolling boil is
necessary for good flocculation.  pH is also critical for good
flocculations. YMMV.

George also writes ...
>     Can anybody think of some reasons that it would harm the wort to heat 
>     it to ~200F, then let it sit overnight before continuing the brewing 
>     process (T ~140F the next morning)?

I take it hops haven't been added and that a 60+ minute boil takes
place the following day ?  The DMS issue isn't so much the temp at
which it boils off as its rate of formation at these higher temps.
[BTW - there's an obvious error/typo in Fix's PoBS book in his kinetic
formula for DMS formation - a first order kinetic reaction doubles
roughly every 10C not every 100C at 'reasonable' temperatures].

I think the biggest risk is the chance that additional aeration and
oxidation will take place, a form of HSA.  If you leave the lid off,
DMS will be lost, but aeration is potentially much higher.  With a lid
on a vast amount of DMS is trapped and may be difficult to eliminate.
Even with a lid, because the wort is constantly cooling overnight, it
will be difficult to exclude air from the kettle.  You could bubble
CO2 thru the wort overnight, but now the cure is worse than the
disease.

George frequently appears in the 'winners circle' and is a first rate
brewer so I'm certain he has a good handle on DMS flavors as well as
subjective evaluation of these beers.  I'd be interested in knowing
how the 'shelf life' and staling or other HSA related properties of
these beers stands up to other more typical homebrews.  George ?

My instinct would be to cool the wort to <90F and seal it.  Then boil
the next day.  This method has the potential for infections and other
problems too, but DMS and HSA aren't among them.

Steve Alexander

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 16:11 PST
From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: re: London Ale Yeasts

Charles asks in HBD 27,

        I'm interested in a discussion.... Wyeast 1968 and 1318...

I used 1968 when it was called ESB and loved it. I used 1318 and hated it. 
It would not flocculate and took fffffooooorrrreeeeeevvvvveeeerrrr to 
finish. I then tried the 1968 AFTER the name change and low and behold, 
acted just like the old 1318. Bummer. I may try it again, because I've heard 
other people like the 1968, but I will NOT try 1318 again.

My $.02 worth, YMMV.

Charley

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:05:06 -0800
From: kenny <mic at inu.net>
Subject: heineken recipe needed

I am looking for a recipe that will make heineken like beer.  If anyone 
even knows what kind of yeast or hops to use it would be appreciated.
thanks.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 16:31 PST
From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: re: Porter Recipe

Jean-S says in HBD #27,

        Heres a porter recipe i'm working on, appreicate any comments...

My first response was, hmmmm, Belgian Aromatic, what a great idea.

My second response is, 61 IBU's is well above the [proper] range for a 
robust porter. Third, where do you get fuggles at only 3.2 %aa? Lowest I've 
seen is 4.5. Becareful that these numbers are what you can actually buy, and 
not what got left in the SUDS database from wherever.

My preference for a Porter is Scottish Ale Yeast (can't remember wyeast #, 
17something). It leaves it a bit sweet which will balance the high alcohol 
content in the thing. You might not achieve a FG of 1.016 unless the mash 
temp is a little higher, more like 156F.

I'm saving this recipe because it looks really good, ingredient wise, just a 
little too bitter for my personal taste. Please report back on how it turns out.

Charley

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:28:22 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Re: decoction

Jeff Renner and Bob McCowan disagree with Brian Bliss 

>... I would,
>however, recommend not using one in a mash consisting of a
>large percentage of colored malts, like what would happen
>in a munich beer.  When I have tried this, I have gotten
>tannins so hot they burn your mouth.

stating that they (as do I) regularly decoct munich and vienna malts.
Perhaps the problem is the source of the malt.  One widely distributed
US maltster uses 6-row barley for every malt except one labeled as
2-row pale.  I can imagine that a decoction from it's 6-row munich or
6-row crystal might turn out badly.

Brian - whose colored malts did you decoct ?

Steve Alexander

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:53:51 +0000
From: Rick Gontarek <gontarek at voicenet.com>
Subject: Motorizing a PhillMill

Greetings all,

I'd like to ask some advice regarding motorizing a PhilMill. A few 
weeks ago I thought I'd try to motorize my PhilMill by attaching my 
drill to the crankshaft of the mill via a bolt with the head cut off 
(exactly as per the directions that came with my PhilMill). Without 
any grain, the mill ran nicely. The minute I added any grain, whammo, 
it stoppped dead. The mill ceased turning via the drill whether I 
added a few grains at a time or whether I had the hopper full. 

Now, I am a bit embarassed to say that I am not very mechanically 
inclined (Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor I am not), but I have heard that 
these mills can be automated using an electric drill. I have  Sears 
Craftsman 3/8' variable drill (3.0 amp/ 0-2500 rpm). Is this drill not 
powerful enough? What am I doing wrong? Not only did the mill not turn 
using the drill, I had one hellofa time getting the bolt back out! I 
felt like such a putz. If there are any of you out there with 
motorized PhilMills, I'd love to hear from you.

TIA for the advice,

Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster
The Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA 
gontarek at voicenet.com

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 17:03 PST
From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Vienna Malt - highly modified?

I thought Vienna Malt was highly modified and would not require a protein 
rest. However, I picked up a recipe for a marzen that calls for 9+ lbs of 
vienna, plus some other stuff, and the recipe calls for a *double decoction* 
mash. Am I in for trouble on this? Could I do a single decoction and get 
away with it tasting the same? Is the recipe bogus (came from CMIII)?

Charley
- - ---------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems
Elk Grove Unified School District
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax)
http://www.innercite.com/~cburns/

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:56:09 -0500
From: Jean-Sebastien Morisset <jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca>
Subject: re: Porter Recipe

At 16:31 14/01/97 PST, Charles Burns wrote:
>Jean-S says in HBD #27,
>
>        Heres a porter recipe i'm working on, appreicate any comments...
>
>My first response was, hmmmm, Belgian Aromatic, what a great idea.

Special-B was also very tempting and I might try it in another batch.

>My second response is, 61 IBU's is well above the [proper] range for a 
>robust porter.

This will be my second run with this recipe. The first had 90 IBU's, which
I admit was a little over the top. I expect it to be very drinkable in 2-3
years! <grin> I'm afraid the Biscuit and Aromatics will tend to give me a
very strong malt profile, so I'm trying to balance it with Brown Malt,
Chocolate, and Hop bitterness. If you notice, I haven't used Black Patent
or Roast; I want to stay well away from a Stout-ish taste.

>Third, where do you get fuggles at only 3.2 %aa? Lowest I've 
>seen is 4.5. Becareful that these numbers are what you can actually buy, and 
>not what got left in the SUDS database from wherever.

Nope, that's what I got in the freezer -- for some reason I just can't seem
to get European hops in the higher range in Montreal.

>My preference for a Porter is Scottish Ale Yeast (can't remember wyeast #, 
>17something). It leaves it a bit sweet which will balance the high alcohol 
>content in the thing. You might not achieve a FG of 1.016 unless the mash 
>temp is a little higher, more like 156F.

I'll probably replace the 40L Crystal with 1kg+ Carapils to get more
mouthfeel and less colour. I'd like a dark ruby red, but the Aromatic,
Biscuit, and Brown Malt are making this difficult. :-)

>I'm saving this recipe because it looks really good, ingredient wise, just a 
>little too bitter for my personal taste. Please report back on how it
turns >out.

The first one at 90 IBU was a little too bitter. :-) I also used Munich
Malt which gave just a hint of maltiness, but not enough, which is why I
went for the Aromatic and Biscuit in this one. I've heard Special-B is also
quite good in Porters too.

My first batch was mashed at 150F and gave an FG of 1.020. I'm still
puzzled by that one.... :-)

Thanks for the interest!

js.
- - --
Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sc. Unix Administrator <mailto:jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca>
Bell Canada, Routing and Trunking Assignments <http://www.bell.ca/>

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:13:09 -0500 (EST)
From: BernardCh at aol.com
Subject: Re: Motorizing a PhillMill (Chuck Bernard)

Rick Gonterak asks about motorizing a PhilMill

I use a 3/16 hex bit from a cordless screwdriver chucked up into my Craftsman
3/8 0-1200RPM drill which I insert into the shoulder screw socket.  I have a
large 12" funnel that I drop into the 2-liter soda pop bottle.  Then I get
the drill running while my wife fills the funnel.  This seems to meter the
grains into the "crusher" a little better and my drill has more than enough
oomph do do the job.  Can usually mill enough grains for a 5 gallon batch in
under 5-minutes.  Be warned though, motorizing this mill creates a tom of
dust!

Chuck
BernardCh at aol.com
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN - Music City USA

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #2313