HOMEBREW Digest #2326 Fri 24 January 1997
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Jethro on Copper (Rob Moline)
Jethro on B'Stone/Freshmen/Reverse Steps/O2 (Rob Moline)
Brewpubs in Adelaide, South Australia ("Curiouser and curiouser...")
Re: Air Filter (Energo Ed)
Re: Improving my brewing (Matt Peterson)
Jethro on Nightline (Rob Moline)
Re: kegging questions (Chris North)
Pronounciation of Gueuze (Spencer W Thomas)
Beerstone, and "Does it work?" (Harlan Bauer)
Canadian Lagers (JOHN MACKAY)
RE:NEW HOME FOR HBD!!! (Mike Preston)
Remedies after kegging (Hal Davis)
bavarian weizen yeasts (Gavin Scarman)
bottle carbonation problem (Gavin Scarman)
Munich Malt and Conversion (BernardCh)
Sea salt (JohnPyles)
Beerstone ("A. J. deLange")
Belgian Abbeys (SW) Moore" <moorere at nassau.navy.mil>
Message not deliverable (Administrator_at_Bethesda__IS)
Message not deliverable (Administrator_at_Bethesda__IS)
Beware the Rootbeer Beer ("Decker, Robin E.")
No airstone, flotation tank, oxygenation ("Reed,Randy")
Wyeasts 1388 & 3787 specs (Philip DiFalco)
Re: CO2 capacity again (Steve Zabarnick)
Re: Trivets and Heat Transfer (John Bowen) ("John R. Bowen")
Over-filling bottles... (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
NO SUBJECT (UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
RE: Plastic (Rory Stenerson)
What is HSA? (Christopher Tkach)
Keg Conditioning Beer (MaltyDog)
Thermometers and Congrats! (UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
Mash Yield Data for SUDS 4.0 ("WILLIAM R. RICH")
NO SUBJECT (UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:46:23 -0600
From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: Jethro on Copper
The Jethro Gump Report...part 2
Subject: BATF/FDA Testing for Copper
Back in November, we were paid a visit, following a phone survey on
the use of brass in the brew-house, particularly in regard to fermented
product...I'm sure you folks have heard of the FDA 'suggestion' that brass
be eliminated from the brewery, when it is able to be in contact with acidic
pH's and the relatively high percentage, (compared to H2O) of ETOH....the
fear being that copper might be leached from the brass, and harm the
customer.
It being my understanding that the majority of bar faucets in the US
are brass, and having been told that certain states have already adopted the
'suggestion' as law, (California?) I was most interested in this project.
Anyway, an agent of BATF visited, and took samples of 2 beers for
analysis. She very kindly sent me copies of the results......our Wheat had
43 ppb copper, and our Red had 27 ppb. This, as stated on the analysis
document, with the notation "The copper level found in the sample is below
the FDA established limit of 1000 ppb in bottled water." ....BATF, National
Laboratory Center, Rockville, Maryland. It seems that this bogey has been
laid to rest.
FWIW, our fermented product is in stainless, except for the sample
cocks, which are brass on fermenters, conditioners, and servers. The servers
are TC clamped to a stainless piece that then is attached to brass T's, and
brass nipples that join the beer hose (vinyl) to the brass faucets.
Our first real lab analysis! Boy, maybe, FDA can come up with a
suggestion that clarity, sediment, air, CO2, SG, real and apparent extract,
ETOH, original extract, attenuation, reducing sugars, protein, iodine
reaction, pH, sulfur dioxide, iron, acidity, and bitterness levels in beer
might be harmful! Then I can stop lusting over the analytical services
provided by Siebel that my boss will never go for!
Jethro Gump
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about beer!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:46:19 -0600
From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: Jethro on B'Stone/Freshmen/Reverse Steps/O2
Greetings,
Have just about caught up with life again and got behind in my reading.
The Jethro Gump Report...part 1
From: korz at xnet.com
>Subject: Beerstone
>I've looked through all my brewing texts (especially the pro texts) and
>cannot find a recommended procedure for removing beerstone.
Of course you know I'm no chemist, but every 3rd or 4th brew in the
kettle, whether cleaned with caustic or PBW by 5 Star, I use an acid
rinse....currently using 2 different acid products, but essentially the
same...a blend of Nitric and Phosphoric. Works well. 1 ounce per 10 gallons
at 140 F, for 20-30/60 CIP. 5-Star's 'Acid 5' recommended.
>From: Darrin Pertschi <darrinp at cowles.com>
>Subject: RE: freshman digest
>A "Freshman" brew digest...Hmmmmm, Don't do it, you'll be disappointed.
>Trust me. I was also overwhelmed with some of the advanced discussions when I
>started reading over a year ago; I still am:
You and me both, mate! Agreed.
>From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
>Subject: re:reverse step infusion mash
>
>George writes in HBD 40:
> Eric asks for comments about his technique of starting
> saccharification at 158F and letting the temp drop to 140F.
> Well, in short, you can't work backwards with mash enzymes.
> The high initial heat will denature the beta amylase. As the
> temperature drops all that you will achieve is slowing down the
> surviving alpha amylase. You'll get conversion, but a highly
> dextrinous wort.
>And he's right, technically. However, I've got a recipe that does exactly
>this and won a 2nd Place in California State Fair last summer. Go for it Eric!
Ah, the technical versus the practical! Of course, George is not
wrong, but I get decent results mashing into 150-155 F (Depending on the
beer), and dropping to 140-145 F over an hour and a half. Systems built for
single infusions seem to work well with this plan, IMHO.
>From: John C Peterson <petersonj1 at juno.com>
>Subject: Air Filter
The best commercial brewers i know use compressed air, run through a
filter...I use industrial O2, no filter, through a 25 micron sintered steel
airstone. Works for me, no worries.
>BTW, if a homebrewer isn't anal retentive, how come he's bothering to
>brew his own beer?
Well said, but I also used to autoclave my bottle caps...both
un-necessary and also counter-productive, as some plastic liners would
deform, never making a seal.
>From: korz at xnet.com
>Subject: bad flavours
>The fact is that there should be no fear of bad taste from letting the
>ale yeast settle through the beer.
Agreed. The only time I had a prob with autolysis was with a batch
that sat in primary carboy for 5 weeks....flavor said it all, but the green
colors in the bottom of the c'boy, looking up thru the bottom glass yelled
it...never had a prob with lengthy secondaries, however, even for 6-8 weeks.
>From: Montgomery_John <montgomery_john at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil>
>Subject: Percent Rye in Grain Bill
Jethro's Rye is out of the bag! 7 BBL, 62.5 % 2 Row, 25 % Wheat
Malt, 12.5 % Rye Flakes...hop to suit taste....very popular beer...customers
like it this way, but to my taste, not enough Rye...tried it with 50 % more
Rye, and liked it better, and with 100 % more Rye....bad choice......ended
up with cement in the mash tun...won't do that again!
"Danger, Will Robinson, Danger"
..homebrewers intending to take up offers of great jobs as commercial
brewers are well advised to perform 'due diligence' studies of offers
made...the results might leave you unemployed or even dead.... my former
assistant was lucky.... although unemployed, he still is among the
quick...see <www.ljworld.com/extras/microbrewindex.html>......rumours are
such that situations like this may be closer than you think...
Jethro (Eureka!!!) Gump
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about beer!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:32:22 -0800
From: "Curiouser and curiouser..." <RUDERMAN at Spark.esca.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in Adelaide, South Australia
Hi all,
I will be visiting Adelaide, South Australia in the near future. Can anyone
make a recommendation as to a brewpub (or other establishment) to visit there?
Thanks in Advance,
Robert Ruderman
reply: RUDERMAN at ESCA.COM
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:51:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Energo Ed <energo at fwai.org>
Subject: Re: Air Filter
John Peterson stated:
> It would seem using cotton balls as a filter, being an
>organic product, would be a great environment for yeasts and bacteria to
>quickly grow and go on down the line to your wort.
Cotton plugs are used all the time on test tubes containg bacteria
cultures. This cotton, though, is non-absorbant. But I don't see why
ordinary cotton balls can't be used as an air filter, especially if it is
kept dry.
Energo Ed
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:36:40 -0600
From: Matt Peterson <mattsp at stat1.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Improving my brewing
>
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:33:04 -0500
>From: David and Nancy Conger <dnconger at primenet.com>
>Subject: Improving my brewing
>
>Greetings Brewers,
>
>Three question about techniques to improve my beer:
>
>1. If I put my hop pellets into a hop bag or bleached out nylons during
>the boil will that significantly lower their utilization? I brewed an
>extract porter last weekend that took 45 minutes to push through a strainer
>into the fermenter. I'd like to avoid that mess in the future, but whole
>hops are not always available at my local shop.
>
I've got an easy answer to that: as soon as the strainer start to become
clogged with hop gunk, fling the gunk into the kitchen sink. At most, you
might have to rinse the strainer under the kitchen sink for a second or
two. I can easily strain 2.5 gallons of wort (using 6 oz. of hop pellets
for an IPA) into a carboy in less than 5 minutes.
As far as a hop bag lowering utilization goes -- I can't help you there.
Matt Peterson
University of Kansas
Experimental Psychology
536a Fraser Hall
Lawrence, Kansas 66045
(913) 864-4131 - office
(913) 864-5696 - fax
web page: falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~mattsp
- --------------
Kansas University Cognitive Science Project
web page: www.cc.ukans.edu/~kucsp/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:21:18 -0600
From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: Jethro on Nightline
Jethro Gump Report....update
Nightline on ABC...has just done an amazingly elegant piece on the
Bud vs. Budvar story...just caught the end of it...and am now recording the
full issue on another channel...for a mass media outlet, I am amazed....VERY
nice piece....copies can be ordered from 800-913-3434, I think....VERY
comprehensive coverage, suitably augmented by Michael Jackson, and
historical details are covered comprehensively...if you haven't seen it
.....find it....an almost totally incomprehensible approach for American
mass media....Amazing!!
Jethro
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about beer!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:32:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris North <chrisn at infohwy.com>
Subject: Re: kegging questions
Brander Roullett in HBD 42:
> Ok, I finally did it. i Kegged. yeah! now what do i do?
>
>1) I put hot bleach water in my keg, sloshed it around, sealed the keg
>(after a few tries) and then under 5-7 psi....
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER ever put bleach in a stainless container. Even if you
do, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER ever do it hot. Even if you do put a hot
bleach solution in a stainless container, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, put a stress
on the material by, for example, putting it under pressure.
The chloride hates the stainless, and the stainless can do without the
chloride.
For those who are unaware, the best one can hope for after putting any
material containing an appreciable amount of chlorides in a stainless
container is severe pitting. At the worst, it will split! NO KIDDING.
All stainless steels are subject to chloride atack, but the austenitic
stainlesses (a magnet won't stick to it) are highly suceptable to a
phenomenum known as Chloride Stress Corrosion Cracking. Very low chloride
levels, < 20 ppm, has been known to cause it. High temperatures make it
worse. I impressed my boss (an engineering manager) one day when he showed
me a 5 gal stainless pot that had split down the side and asked me why? I
asked him "What were you doing, boiling chlorides in it?" He looked at me
as if I was psychic, then smiled and said "No, it was only at 140 degrees
(F)". No applied stress, only residual stress from the deep drawing during
the manufacture of the pot.
Use non-chloride cleaners on all stainless and iodophor for sanitizing.
A bit long of a response, but homebrewers often have bleach and stainless
containers at the same time and it can't be repeated enough.
Yes, I am a metallurgist, a homebrewer, and in no way anal retentive.
chris north
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:43:39 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Pronounciation of Gueuze
Well, there's no way to pronounce the word using American English
sounds. The consonants are easy, it's the vowels that are tricky.
The vowel sound in the middle is close to the French eu (as in pneu),
and the German o-umlaut (or Scandinavian o-slash). Then there's an
unaccented short-e sound at the end. It's sort of like the vowel
sound in "bird", but without the following "r" sound, and longer.
Jackson says it's close to "cursor", but that's only because he's
British and they talk funny. :-)
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:02:40 -0600
From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Beerstone, and "Does it work?"
Al asks about removing beerstone. I use 30% phosphoric acid. The stuff wipes
right out of the bottom of my kettle. I also don't let it accumulate.Be sure
to wear rubber gloves, tho.
let's see if this new HBD address works...)
Harlan
*********************************************************************
* *
* Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can *
* Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. *
* <blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman *
* *
*********************************************************************
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:51:20 AST
From: JOHN MACKAY <MACKAYJ at pvec.ednet.ns.ca>
Subject: Canadian Lagers
I am interested in getting some all grain recipes for Canadian
Lagers. I hve been all grain brewing for about 2 years now with good
success, but cannot find a suitable recipe to brew this style. Any
help is appreciated.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:08:00 -0500
From: Mike Preston <mpreston at ford.com>
Subject: RE:NEW HOME FOR HBD!!!
Welcome to the first digest from the new home for the Homebrew Digest.
Thanks!
Both Pat and Karl deserve a round of..............homebrew! (thought I
was gonna say applause didn't ya) And I'll start. Pat and Karl should be
receiving their first round in the mail from me within the next few
days. I've been waiting for an opportunity like this to dump my last 4
bottles of my first batch I made 5 years ago ;)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:24:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com>
Subject: Remedies after kegging
I have just tasted the finished product of my first all-grain brewing
experience. I found I made a couple of mistakes, and I wonder if it's
possible to address them now, or if I should just make a note for next time.
First, there aren't enough bittering hops. I was trying to do First Wort
Hopping, but I mis-remembered how that is done and just dumped the bittering
hops (pellets) into the grain bin before I started the mash. Apparently most
of those got filtered out and never got boiled at all. After I brewed, I
read up on First Wort Hopping again, and discovered I should have added the
hops to the first runnings from the sparge.
Anyway, very little of the hops intended for the boil got boiled, and my
finished product is fully fermented and force-carbonated. I was considering
making a "hop soup" by boiling some hops in a half-gallon or so of water for
an hour, and then adding some of the soup to the finished product to hop to
taste. Thoughts, suggestions?
Second, I was trying to make an ESB, and I really like the taste of one of
my previous (extract) batches of ESB. The previous batch had .25# of biscuit
added, and I forgot to put that in this batch. As long as I'm making a hop
soup, should I steep in some biscuit as well? I looked in my only brewing
book, Papzian's New Joy, and I don't find biscuit listed, so I don't know if
it's a malted grain or a roasted grain, hence I don't know if it will
produce fermentable sugars.
Hal Davis
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:12:14 +1500
From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au>
Subject: bavarian weizen yeasts
I have been trying to brew a true to style bavarian weizen ( my whole
reason for getting back into homebrewing).
I have Eric Warner's book and it pretty much explains everything, except
for yeast 'brands'.
I have been using Yeast Labs W51 at various temperatures trying to get
those clove-like phenols and banana esters. They are there but very, very
faint. Has anyone any hope to offer me in Wyeast weihenstephan?
Does anyone know if Paulaner is pasteurised or if it's a lager yeast in
the bottle ie. can this yeast be propagated and is it worth it?
- ----------------------------------
http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman
mailto:scarman at satech.net.au
- ----------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:12:12 +1500
From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au>
Subject: bottle carbonation problem
I have a batch of (attempted) hefeweizen with the following history:
Mainly extract base,OG 1.050, primary 1 week, SG 1.010, racked to
secondary, 1 more week,FG 1.006 (low?), bottled, primed with 1
tsp/750ml dextrose. Yeast Labs W51 was used.
2 weeks later there is very little carbonation. I have never racked to
a secondary before as I didn't feel it neccessary for this beer type.
The previous batch differed from this one only in that I did not rack
to secondary and bottled at 1.014. In hindsight 1.014 might have been
a little high as the beer turned out slightly overcarbonated (but
not unacceptable for this style beer).
comparing the SG of the two batches:
day previous current
1 1.050 1.050
2 1.028 1.030
3 1.020 1.018
4 1.015 1.014
5 - 1.012
6 1.014 1.011
7 bottled 1.010
Temperature was about the same for both, but for some reason
the current batch was prepared to ferment down to 1.006 whereas the
previous batch was finished about 1.014. According to Eric Warner
1.014 is quite acceptable for a FG for a weizen. I did not expect
the current batch to go as low as 1.006.
My questions are:
1. why should one batch ferment to a much lower FG almost everything
else being 'equal'?
2. is 1.006 low? Should I have added more priming sugar?
3. since I reused the yeast shouldn't it have less 'vigour' than the
previous batch?
- ----------------------------------
http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman
mailto:scarman at satech.net.au
- ----------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:07:06 -0500
From: BernardCh at aol.com
Subject: Munich Malt and Conversion
Does Munich malt generally have enough enzymes to convert itself (100% of
grain bill)? Any preferred mash temperature schedule? If it can't convert
itself, what's the highest percentage of total grain bill recommended.
Thanks in advance.
Chuck
BernardCh at aol.com
Nashville, TN
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:08:44 -0500 (EST)
From: JohnPyles at aol.com
Subject: Sea salt
Rod Schlabach asked about sea salt.
Can anyone out there comment on the use of "sea salt".
I work for a salt company and have been making salt directly from sea water
for 20 years. Most of the salt sold on the west coast is made from sea water
no matter what the package says. East of the Rockies, salt is obtained from
underground salt deposits put there by ancient seas. Producers refine these
salt sources to various degrees and mix in whatever additives the customer
wants. As stated in an earlier response, a common additive is a salt of
iodine for use in those few areas of the country where the diet is low in
iodine due mostly to soil conditions.
Some marketers put out a low grade salt (not washed well) or add magnesium to
make a "sea" salt. Most producers do their best to remove any magnesium
because it tends to make the salt taste bitter.
Bottom line is, "sea" salt will give you a little extra magnesium which you
need in the mash anyway. I wouldn't sweat it and I wouldn't pay extra for
"sea" salt.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:50:29 -0500
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Beerstone
Oxalic acid has pK's of 1.23 and 4.19 so that beerstone should dissolve if
enough of any acid (hydrochloric, sulfuric, nitric, phosphoric...) is used
to make a rinse with pH lower than 4.19 assuming that the monohydrogen
salt is soluble. For sure it will dissolve at pH < 1.23 so 0.1N
hydrochloric acid (the stuff from the hardware store is about 8N) ought to
do the job.
A. J. deLange
- Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
Please Note New e-mail Address
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:22:31 +0100
From: "FCC(SW) Moore" <moorere at nassau.navy.mil>
Subject: Belgian Abbeys
Dear Collective:
OK, this post might seem to be a bit out line with brewing, but be
patient... It'll get there
I happen to find myself in Barcelona, Spain for a few days. My first
night out, I managed to find a little bar who specializes in Belgian beer.
(Isn't it amazing how we can home in on places like this....) They have
about a hundred varieties. What I would like to know is, what are the six
Trappist breweries of Belgium, and the names of the beers they make? I
know Chimay and Orval, but can't remember the rest. I feel certain that
they have 'em all.
Here's the brewing tie in - I plan to take yeast samples, and I need to
know which beers to get. Also, besides the 'big six', what others would
you want to get if you had the chance. I have a limit of about 12 total
samples.
More questions for yeast ranchers: I will have to use agar for medium
(no wort available), and the samples won't be used for 4 months. Any
helpful hints on storage and culturing?
Thanks in advance for your input - private e-mail is fine. I'll be
thinking about all of you as I gently pour out my first Chimay of the
evening tonight.
Dreaming of a Belgian Ale Brew,
Rich Moore
Interesting Saying of the Day:
A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only
advise his client to plant vines.
Frank Lloyd Wright (1869-1959)
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 09:11:10 PST
From: Administrator_at_Bethesda__IS at ccmail.medicus.com
Subject: Message not deliverable
Homebrew Digest Thursday, January 23 1997 Volume 02 : Number 044
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1 Aeration/kraeusening
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:00:55 +1500
From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au>
Subject: Aeration/kraeusening
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Aeration/kraeusening
>my basement, in the summertime, I CANNOT use room air for aeration of
>wort, else I will get a beer that has a faint clovey character that
>increases over the course of several weeks in the bottle.
Oh, well can I get you to brew me a hefe-weizen then as I can't seem
to get the "clovey" characters I'm after? ;) (been using Yeast Labs
w51, about to try weihenstephen from Wyeast).
- ----------------------------------
http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman
mailto:scarman at satech.net.au
- ----------------------------------
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest V2 #44
*****************************
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 09:12:12 PST
From: Administrator_at_Bethesda__IS at ccmail.medicus.com
Subject: Message not deliverable
Homebrew Digest Thursday, January 23 1997 Volume 02 : Number 044
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1 Aeration/kraeusening
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:00:55 +1500
From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au>
Subject: Aeration/kraeusening
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Aeration/kraeusening
>my basement, in the summertime, I CANNOT use room air for aeration of
>wort, else I will get a beer that has a faint clovey character that
>increases over the course of several weeks in the bottle.
Oh, well can I get you to brew me a hefe-weizen then as I can't seem
to get the "clovey" characters I'm after? ;) (been using Yeast Labs
w51, about to try weihenstephen from Wyeast).
- ----------------------------------
http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman
mailto:scarman at satech.net.au
- ----------------------------------
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest V2 #44
*****************************
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 9:38:00 -0600
From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
Subject: Beware the Rootbeer Beer
Although Phil Wilcox and Robert DeNeefe asked very different questions in
#42 & #43 respectively, they both touched on a scary subject... the after
effects of rootbeer on your homebrew.
Do not, I repeat, DO NOT use your kegs for rootbeer unless you want to
dedicate that keg to rootbeer for all time. All the associated plastic and
rubber parts will be contaminated with the flavor/aroma of the rootbeer, and
will have to be replaced. We were unfortunate enough to not know this
before we kegged up a batch of the "kid's beer", and even though we have
very good sanitization procedures, the next 3 batches of homebrew tasted
like rootbeer. This was extremely disappointing, as well as hard to
swallow.
After the 1st batch, we decided to replace the o-rings, but the 2nd batch
was just as bad. When we asked our favorite pro-brewer about the problem,
he commiserated with us, and informed us that any brew-pubs, etc that make
rootbeer dedicate some equipment to this process because the time and effort
(and $$) involved in completely removing the offending flavor is just too
great. Then he suggested replacing the serving line, but that didn't
completely solve the problem. It wasn't until the actual picnic tap handle
was replaced, that we achieved satisfactory results. It was a valuable and
overly long lesson we learned, and I would hate to see my fellow brewsters
travel that same road.
The moral of the story is: Just bottle it (rootbeer)!!
Goldy
"The whole point of getting things done is knowing what to leave undone."
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:12:00 -0500
From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com>
Subject: No airstone, flotation tank, oxygenation
> mark bayer asks:
> by the way, for all you guys using air to aerate, how much foam over do
you
> get, typically? just curious.
LaBorde, Ronald answers:
>Well aah, depends on how you aerate.
>The first couple times I used a pump and an airstone and it was foam city.
>I mean it was the great grandaddy of blowoffs - really a blowout.
>Enough of that. Now I simply use my racking cane with no airstone and pump
>filtered air. I get big bubbles, but the foam gets about one to two inches
>thick and I let it go for about 4 hours.
>I haven't taken any measurements on this but my feeling is that 4 hours of
>continuous bubbling (with large bubbles from the racking cane) will
>sufficiently aerate the wort.
>When using the airstone, I had to keep stopping the pump. On for a couple
>minutes then off for ten or so minutes. So I am thinking that it's much
>easier and probably as good or better without the airstone.
A couple of observations: If you use the aquarium pump method, using the
airstone (even though it foams) may be desirable since it causes small
bubbles to percolate through the cooled wort., which reportedly causes
more uptake of the gases. The Brewing Techniques (BT) article on ways to
oxygenate/aerate your wort mentions the porosity of the airstones
effects the rate of oxygen uptake.
In the following month's Letter to the Editor column, a reader mentions
that he gets good results using his aquarium pump and airstone by
placing the fermentor in a plastic bin or tray and letting the foam exit
the fermentor and accumulate in the tray. Much of the foam, he reasons,
is cold break and this system works for him like a flotation tank. Many
commercial lager brewers reportedly use a flotation tank to remove some
cold break according to Dave Miller (Homebrewing Guide, Storey
Publications). They rack the freshly cooled wort into the tank, bubbling
air up through aeration stones placed in the bottom of the tanks, and
finally racking the beer through valves placed near the bottom of the
tank, leaving the foam (containing much of it cold break) behind.
Obviously, you could aerate longer this way and get more oxygen into
solution by letting the foam exit in some sanitary way. You would lose
some wort. I have personally switched to oxygenating with pure oxygen.
It is quick and easy. Anything that shortens my brew day is a good
thing. If you use the aquarium pump method, this may work well for you.
Glad the Home Brew Digest has found a good home!
Cheers
Randy Reed (Stoughton, MA)
=====================================================
-Homebrewers are like dogs teaching each other how to
chase cars.-
- Ann Reed
=====================================================
+-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-+
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+ ESBITTER at AOL.COM +
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Beer Judge/Potscrubber +
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Stewards Encouraged
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 10:29:54 -0500
From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at fanniemae.com>
Subject: Wyeasts 1388 & 3787 specs
I looked in the Yeast FAQ - but, couldn't find any specifics (ie., alcohol
tolerance, attenuation, flocculation, ferment temperature range, etc.) on
Wyeast 1388 {Belgian Strong Ale], nor Wyeast 3787 [Belgian Trappist].
If anyone has the specifications for either of these Wyeasts, could they
please post it or email me.
Thanks
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:23:50 -0500
From: Steve Zabarnick <steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Re: CO2 capacity again
In HBD V2#43 Spencer Thomas writes:
>Sheesh! Some day I'll learn not to calculate "from the hip".
>
>A more careful calculation reveals that both my previous calculations
>were off by a factor of 2 (one high, one low).
>
>To reiterate:
>
>CO2 weighs 44 g per mole.
>A mole of CO2 at STP is about 22 liters.
>Thus, CO2 weighs about 2g/liter (at STP).
>Thus, 2 volumes of carbonation consumes 4g/liter of CO2.
>Pushing a liter of beer out at 14PSIG takes another 2 liters-at-STP of
>CO2 (4g).
>Thus, each liter of beer requires 8g of CO2 to carbonate and push.
>A 5lb tank holds 2265 grams of CO2.
>2265g / 8g/l = 283 liters of beer carbonated and pushed.
>283l / 3.8gal/l = 74 gallons of beer or 14-15 5 gallon batches.
>
Let's not forget that the after fermentation and prior to carbonation, the
beer is already saturated with CO2. I calculate that this is approximately
0.73 volumes of CO2 near room temperature. Thus, only an additional 1.27
volumes is needed to carbonate to 2 volumes. Thus, a 5 lb CO2 tank will
last for about 18 five gallon batches.
In my neck of the woods, a tank refill costs about $7.50, an almost
insignificant cost per batch, IMHO.
Steve Zabarnick
Dayton, OH
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:00:35 +0000
From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen at primary.net>
Subject: Re: Trivets and Heat Transfer (John Bowen)
David Conger (V2.42) asks about trivets under his brew pot. I made a
trivet from a heavy coathanger: My burner is 7 1/2" dia, so I made the
trivet as a simple square, 6 1/2" on side. Its fits just fine and
supports the kettle on the adequately.
But I don't use it!
As you pointed out, the purpose is to reduce scorching where the coils
contact the bottom of the brew pot. Unfortunately, from the stove's
point of view, the purpose of the brewpot is to accept heat from the
coils and keep them from overheating. The trivet greatly interfers with
this by slowing the heat transfer. I had to keep my burner on "high"
for the whole boil time, where I can use "8" without the trivet. The
surface of the stove became too hot to touch and the plastic parts
started to stink. I think this risks damage to the stove surface, if it
is not a significant fire danger.
So I just put up with a little scorching for now until I can move to a
gas cooker and/or an expensive pot with an aluminum sandwich bottom. I
wonder if a solid aluminum disk (say 1/4" thick) under the brewpot would
transfer the heat fast and evenly enough to prevent scorching. Anyone
have any ideas on this?
Another thought: I have purchased a "canning element" (ca. $40, should
fit most (US) electric stoves). It fits just like the regular element
but it raises the element about 1" in the air, to allow better airflow
between the element and the stove top, which the manufacturer says is
important when using large kettles. The stove is definately cooler
after a long boil.
John
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:24:49 -0500
From: Jean-Sebastien Morisset <jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca>
Subject: Over-filling bottles...
I'd just like to state that it *is* possible to over-fill bottles. Over the
last year I've been decreasing the amount of head-space in my bottles to
help prevent oxydation. On my last batch, the head space was non-existant.
A few days after bottling, I noticed the bottle caps were bulging a bit. I
thought it was just my imagination and let them be. Well, yesterday I
noticed my shelving was a little sticky. :-) Sure enough, a bottle in the
back had broken, and beer had 'oozed' from under several bottle caps. I
opened, withdrew a 1/4" of beer with a syringe, and re-capped the hole lot.
I just wanted to bring this to the attention of the list. It looks like at
least *some* head space is required for the expansion of liquids as room
temperature varies (warmed liquid expands).... :-)
later!
js.
- --
Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sc. Administrateur Unix
Bell Canada, Acheminement et Attrib. des Liaisons <http://dmocww.on.bell.ca>
700 rue de La Gauchetiere, Montreal QC, H3B 4L1
Tel: (514)870-2994, Fax: (514)870-5659, Pagette: (514)339-3967
Internet: jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca, SII: INTERNET(JSMORIS2)
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:11:36 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes USAET(UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
Subject: NO SUBJECT
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production F-Series Analyst \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com (_)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:30:43 -0500
From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664 at compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Plastic
Brian Murray asks in HBD v2 #43:
"At work we use these 6 gallon food safe plastic water jugs in our water
coolers. I don't see any reason why I couldn't use these as a Primary
Fermenter,..."
Yes, assuming you're able to keep them sanitary and you don't plan on
reusing them.
"...but would it cause any harm if I used them for the Secondary
Fermenter as well?"
Again, treating these plastic carboys as one time use items may be save you
some money on the initial outley for glass carboys. However, if you plan
to reuse the plastic carboys you may find problems when you try to clean
them. I'm not sure of the reactions you may encounter with using Bleach or
Idophor with the plastic (I'm sure one of the many chemists lurking on this
Digest will chime in on that) but if you ever have to use a carboy brush it
you might scratch the interior of the plastic carboy. These scratches may
become vacation homes for bacteria. I'm not a chemist, but after the
effort and care I put into making a good batch I wouldn't want to
jeopardize it by trying to save the $20-40 for a couple of glass carboys.
"These jugs are tinted light blue, will this have any adverse effect on my
brew?"
Again, I'm not a chemist so if you must use them keep the carboy covered
from light. That blue is for marketing water not the blue of "blue
blocker" sunglasses if you know what I mean.
Most of all I'm glad you're teaching your sons about beer and alchohol in
an interesting and enlightening way instead of demonizing it which is the
current "politically correct" way it's being handled by our government.
Cheers!
Rory Stenerson,
State College Underground Maltsters, S.C.U.M., Board Member
State College, PA, U.S.A.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:14:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Tkach <tkach at tiac.net>
Subject: What is HSA?
Ok, all this talk about Hot Side Aeration has confused me. Could
someone explain what it actually is? How does it affect the quality
of your beer, and what are the tell tale signs during tasting that
you have HSA?
Thanks,
- Chris
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:21:13 -0500 (EST)
From: MaltyDog at aol.com
Subject: Keg Conditioning Beer
Hello to the New Digest!
I am in the process at the moment of moving to a totally
keg-oriented system. (I've broken enough carboys to last
a lifetime!) I'm using kegs for primary and secondary
fermentation, and serving from both kegs and bottles,
depending on the situation.
What I was interested in asking about was the process of
naturally carbonating in kegs; that is, "keg
conditioning." I've heard about using some kind of
diabetes kit from a pharmacy to measure the sugar
currently in a beer, so that you can rack it into a
sealed keg while the fermentation is not quite complete,
thereby carbonating "naturally," with no sugar added.
I was wondering if anyone who has had experience with
this method could enlighten us all on the procedures for
doing this, and how to calculate the right time to rack
(I sure wouldn't want a stainless steal keg to explode!)
Thanks,
Bill Coleman
MaltyDog at aol.com
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:29:19 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes USAET(UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
Subject: Thermometers and Congrats!
Greetings Beerlings (What, did you copyright this Pat?)
I just got a digital thermometer for X-mas that's GREAT! It's made by Poldar
and quite a great tool. It's designed for kitchen use and has a 3' long
SS braided wire with a 6" long rigid probe. The actual thermometer is a
square base that is magnetized, the display is about 3" square and has the
actual temp (32-400 or so degrees range), a programmable target temp with
beeping alarm and a countdown timer, what more could an all grainer want?
It's really designed for sticking in a roast as it cooks but works great
for brewing. I tested it in on ice water and boiling water and it was dead
nuts right on. I believe they are mail orderable from the chefs catalog,
brookstone (check any mall) but I just found a kitchen store in Dearborn
that has them for $25 (oops, $30 plus s/h if mail ordered) I called their
customer service and they sell extra probes for $10 (they just plug in to the
base) so you could potentially mount a probe in a stirriing paddle/spoon,
in the flow of a recirc pump etc....
CONGRATS! Congratulations to Pat & Karl, I can vouch as a friend of Pats
how much blood, sweat, & tears he has sunk in to this project. His love of
beer & brewing is only rivalled by his love of computers and things of a
techno nature (but but both pale in comparison to his love of family) and I
have no doubt this digest will be kicking but well into the next century!
I raise my mug to you sir Pat of Babcock, Janitor of the roundtable!
Huzzah!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr, President
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|///
Now serving number 120 o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com (_)
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:15:24 -0800
From: "WILLIAM R. RICH" <RICHB at nisewest.nosc.mil>
Subject: Mash Yield Data for SUDS 4.0
After 25 extract batches, I
recently did my first all grain.
Thanks to all of the great
information I have received from
HBD and my local homebrew store,
everything went very well. I
couldn't believe how clear it was
when I bottled. Tasted great too!
For my second all grain batch, I
would like to use some Belgian
specialty malts (caramunich, and
aromatic) in the mash. When I went
into the SUDS 4.0 program to
calculate the expected OG, IBU,
etc., I found that these malts (and
several others) are missing from
the malt table. Where can I find a
listing of expected yields (in
points/pound/gallon I think) for
the various malts that are not
included in the SUDS 4.0 malt
table?
I am very happy with SUDS for
calculating expected OG, IBU and
mashing conditions. Are there
other programs available that are
better for calculating this
information? Is there a good
source for a complete listing of
expected malt yields? If I can get
my hands on this information, I can
update the SUDS malt table to
include the grains I want to use.
TIA,
Bill Rich
richb at nosc.mil
San Diego, CA
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:51:46 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes USAET(UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
Subject: NO SUBJECT
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production F-Series Analyst \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com (_)
Return to table of contents