HOMEBREW Digest #2361 Fri 28 February 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Stainless false bottom vs. copper manifold ("John W. Reese")
  Chlorine and iodophor in the dairy industry (Al Stevens)
  wasted band width- (kathy)
  Swedish Ale/Porter (rjlee)
  Recirc and CFChiller. (Varady)
  Re:Italian Beer Scene/(Bierre de Garde) ("MASSIMO FARAGGI")
  Fermenting in 10 Gal Cornys (George Schamel)
  Re:Bierre de Garde (Kit Anderson)
  AHA/AOB: the $100,000 Question ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
  Counterflow Chiller / Trub Removal / Ray Daniels book ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
  Summer Brewing (LaBorde, Ronald)
  REgarding natural alcohol contents (Shelly Marshall)
  Counterflow clillers and trub removal... (Jim Cave)
  Newbie question - "True Brew" Stout ("RTALBOT")
  AHA (Jim Cave)
  Judgement Call ("John Penn")
  Chiller length/Flames and abuse cycle (Dave Riedel)
  Re: brew dogs (Lou Heavner)
  RE: AHA yow yow ("Bridges, Scott")
  recipe (Nathan Moore)
  wort clarification, ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Composition of extract from steeped versus mashed grains (Patrick Stirling)
  Canadian Amateur Brewers Assoc. event/competition (Eamonn McKernan)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:14:11 From: "John W. Reese" <reese010 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Stainless false bottom vs. copper manifold Tom Neary writes: >My question is what is better for the mash tun >- a SS false bottom or a copper manifold. >I have heard varried comments about both. >One being that if using a false bottom and >applying direct heat to the tun you must recirculate >the wort. Considerations: 1) Free oxygen/HSA, a.k.a. contamination from 'dirty' copper. Theory: Copper has been cited as a source of free oxygen ions in hot wort,possibly causing HSA. SS does not introduce oxygen into hot wort. After some reading and correspondance with Andrew Walsh, who has written about copper in brewing for HBD in the past, I conclude that free oxygen/HSA is NOT a reason to avoid copper in brewing IF copper surfaces are cleaned with a light household acid like distilled vinegar immediately before brewing, then rinsed with de-oxygenated, de-chlorinated water (in other words, your brewing water, which you boil before mashing and sparging). This will take off the tarnish on the copper, which probably is the source of oxygen ions in hot wort. It also warms the mash tun/lauter tun before the mash is introduced, thus keeping it closer to strike temp. Copper will oxidize quickly, so it is best to do this just before brewing. Keep tap water away from your freshly cleaned copper. Chlorinated, oxygen-rich tap water tarnishes copper. Given the preparations I and many other brewers go through before a brewing session, maintaining copper equipment well costs almost no extra effort or time. I haven't even started on the difficulty or expense of working with SS... 2) Scorched wort/heat distribution. Theory: The specific heat of water (wort collected in the false bottom)is lower than grain, so using water to heat grain is inefficient. Scorching happens because you have to over-heat water/wort to compensate for its inefficiency as a heat distribution mechanism. This problem may be overcome by aiding heat distribution through recirculation. SS is a poor heat conducter and prone to scorching. If the floor of your false bottom lauter tun is SS, you will have quite a job keeping hot spots from scorching wort. As you draw wort off the mash you also draw heat away from the system, increasing the need for heat and thus magnifying heat transfer problems. An even greater problem than scorching is associated with unreduced starch. When ambient temps reach 176 C, starch granules collected under your false bottom (I usually get a half inch of this stuff) burst and release unreduced starch into the sweet wort. This is harder to avoid than scorching. Copper is far better than SS for heat distribution. A slotted coil of copper wrapped tightly on the bottom of a round SS pot will a)conduct heat away from the SS floor of the lauter tun and distribute it directly into the mash; b)conduct heat away from hot spots; c)increase the heating 'surface' of the lauter tun several times; d)keep starch granules and mash from coming into direct contact with the hot floor of the lauter tun. Get a 20' coil of soft .5" O.D. copper, take it out of the box and fit it to the bottom of your lauter tun WITHOUT BENDING IT, so that the entire bottom is covered with a single layer copper coil. Use a power tool to hack slots in the copper, bending it as little as possible. Once you bend soft copper you'll never get it back to a tight coil. |||John W. Reese||| Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:18:28 +1000 (EST) From: JONATHAN BOVARD <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au> Subject: RIMS System Has anyone in Australia ever made a RIMS system from local parts? any correspondence or information would be great. JB Australia Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Feb 97 06:49:56 EST From: Al Stevens <72704.743 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Chlorine and iodophor in the dairy industry This discussion of chlorine vs iodophor keeps coming up. I understand the arguments about bleach and SS, but then I am confused when I look at the dairy industry. Your average dairy farm has enough stainless piping and tanks to make any home brewer green with envy. Why then, is the most common dairy cleanser, chlorine ? These guys for sure do not have money to waste, and would not risk their investment just to use a cheaper cleanser. That being said, the other popular cleanser is iodophor, and it is readily available at any farm supply store. The last time I bought some, ( a 4 liter jug lasts a long time) it ran about $12.00 Cdn for 4 liters. I think that the homebrew shops buy it this way and then repackage it at an enormous markup. Are there any metalurgists out there that could tell me why chlorine is not bad for the SS that is used in the dairy industry, but bad for cornelius kegs? Al Stevens RR #1 Almonte Ontario, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:22:07 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: wasted band width- Where does the wasted bandwidth go? My Sunday post about the BT article on Little Apple made it out on Wednesday. Wasted bandwidth lengthens the Que. If you just gotta...make the scolding private. Does dropping leave behind working yeast populations or is all the bottom yeasts "retired"? Cheers...jim booth, lansing, mi. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:34:44 -0600 From: rjlee at mmm.com Subject: Swedish Ale/Porter I see that WyEast has a Swedish Ale yeast out and I have seen some off hand references to Swedish Porter. What I haven't seen is a description or recipies on the style. Please send me some of each (bottles, too, if you'd like ;) I'll summarize back to here.. Tia Randy Lee rjlee at mmm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:37:20 -0500 (EST) From: Varady <vectorsy at netaxs.com> Subject: Recirc and CFChiller. >>separate it varies (see below). I think the option of recirculating >>cooled wort back into your brewpot is probably a little too hazardous >>from a bacteriologic (sp?) point of view and will also take so long that >>the benefits of using a CF will be lost. > >First all discussion on this thread is supposition, yours and mine, >because I don't know anyone who has tried this. I hope to borrow a >cf chiller and test it out, however until then you and I will be >debating opinions. Mine being that recirculating the wort back into >the kettle will give a cooling rate much faster than an immersion >chiller (without the need for physical agitation and its associated >danger of HSA) but not as fast as the straight cf chiller. *This is reposted from HBD 2335 (sorry) but relevant to the discussion: >>I run my wort into a cf chiller and use a pump to recirculate it thru the chiller and back to the kettle just at the surface. I run the water on very low flow and the wort on high flow. I get one 6.5 gallon carboy full of water at 140+F, one at 120+F and a third at 100+F (each carboy takes about 10 mins to fill at the water flow rate). This water with bleach sanitizes the carboys. By the time the second one is full, the first one is emptied and rinsed. By now the wort in the kettle is about 100F so I turn off the pump and put a small piece of ranking cane on the out hose. This piece of cane has 4 pin holes drilled in the side and is sealed at the bottom (by heating and squeezing). I stick the hose in a carboy and turn the pump on high. The wort is aerated as it sprays agianst the sides of the carboy chilled further to a cool 64F. This uses a total of 25 gallons of water to chill 12.5 gallons of wort in 30 mins.<< I use some whole leaf hops in each batch to catch break and pellets hops. I have not had any infections and have done this on over 30 batches. It has become SOP in the boneyard. I basically love my pump and have found many uses for it. John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html Boneyard Brewing Co. "The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program" "Ale today, Gone tomorrow." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:01:34 -0800 (PST) From: "MASSIMO FARAGGI" <maxfarag at hotmail.com> Subject: Re:Italian Beer Scene/(Bierre de Garde) Kenny gives me the chance to spend a few words about Italian beer scene... Reading Kenny's post you could get the idea that in Italy we use to drink beers as strong as our wines, but I must say it is a wrong impression. First of all, I think 80% of Italian (modest) beer consumption is of locally produced beers. Almost all italian beers are pale lager or pilsener, many of them are good without being exceptional; they are about the same level of famous mainstream european lager with the advantage of being fresh. BTW, Heineken is produced locally and is considered to be an italian brand (Heineken Italia S.p.A.). Tuborg, Carlsberg and other are locally produced under license. The main down side of italian beer production is the lack of variety; the most distinctive brew is perhaps Moretti "La rossa" ("The Red"), not widely available; at about 7% ABV is the STRONGEST italian beer I know. Even more difficult to find is "Splugen Fumee" (a pale smoked bock), which I could taste 15 years ago! Apart frome these there some dark lagers in not a particular style; no dopplebocks, weizen or ales. When we come to imports, again most are mainstream international lagers from Corona to Bud to better German examples. The remaining small percentage of beer consumed are the true classic specialities from Europe. It is a quite small market segment but it is the only one which is increasing. There are some - not many - "bars" sometime called "Pub" which can offer over 150 foreign beers; the most fashionable are the Belgian ales. You can even find micros like La Binchoise or Abbaye the Rocs; all the trappist except the true Westvleren; or even Rodenbach. Chimay Blue is available almost in every "Pub". British ales were more fashionable 15 years ago but are coming back, notably Ushers, Marston's and Sheperd Neame (sp?). And Guinness, of course. Many Belgian ales are in the high alcohol range; to partially agree with Kenny I noticed also some new import lagers at > 10% ABV, very much attenuated and not particularly interesting (together with a new wave of tasteless "Ice beers"). Micro's and brewpubs: never found, but I was told that there could be maybe half a dozen. To sum it up, you could have a good choice of beer if you can find them, but I suggest any US visitor in Italy to go after WINE instead, and go on with your european tour with a visit to Belgium and UK... Anyway I am happy to help about beer, wine and food any HBder who is coming to visit Italy (do you know, Kenny, that 60% - or was it 70%? - of the WORLD ancient artistic heritage is here in Italy? and I bet 50% is hidden or lost somewhere in the dark cellars of some museum...) I hope this was interesting to somebody altough a bit off-subject of homebrewing; BTW I was forgetting to tell you which are the very best Italian beers... mine of course!! :). Thanks to all the people who helped me with the meaning of "skunk". (To Andy Kligerman: I hope you received my post; I had some trouble with my email service recently.) Cheers. MAX P.S. There is one more point of MY interest about beer availability here: why can I get here even a tiny belgian micro ale and never, say, a SNPA or a Samuel Adams? I am always reading in HBD about hoppppy IPA's, barleywines, smoked porter and all I can get from USA is a Bud or a Miller! I could just find (just once!) Anchor Steam and Porter - which were good. Tell them there is an interesting market here (well maybe there isn't - but give me a chance!). Massimo Faraggi GENOVA - ITALY maxfarag at hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:20:36 +0000 From: George Schamel <george.schamel at ast.lmco.com> Subject: Fermenting in 10 Gal Cornys Hello all, I asked a question about fermenting in 10 gallon cornys a few days ago and I thought a summary of the responses might be appropriate. The question was "How much wort can you ferment in a 10 gal corny without excessive blowoff?" Now this is an open-ended question because variables such as the wort original gravity an yeast type affect blow-off but I did get three responses: 1. Dion fills a 5 gal corny to the weld line and "doesn't lose too much". 2. Pat puts 7.5 gal in a 10 gal corny on top of yeast (w-1968) from his last batch and has less than 1quart loss (my interpetation of his description). 3. Don guesses he can get 9.5 gal in the corny with an unspecified amount of blow-off. It sounds like he often leaves more head space so that he gets no blowoff. Thanks for the input guys, I'll use this method next batch. George Schamel, High Altitude Homebrew - 10000 ft and still brewin' Conifer, Colorado Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:28:13 -0500 From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com> Subject: Re:Bierre de Garde Andy Kligerman asked for a bierre de garde recipe. Here is an article I posted here a few years ago. This is a great beer. Bierre de Garde by Kit Anderson Since winning my first best of show at SNERHC (Southern New England Regional Homebrew Competition) with a rare style (bierre de garde), my life has not been the same what with having to unlist my phone, going out in public with dark sunglasses, writers' cramp leading to carpal tunnel syndrome from having to continuously sign autographs in the supermarket, product endorsements, and a string talk show appearances. I have decided to expose my secrets in the hope that others will have similar success and my life will return to a somewhat normal state. It was originally a farmhouse ale brewed in small batches by farmer/brewers in the Flemish speaking area of northern France. By WWI, many brewers moved to bottom fermenting yeast but kept the fermentation relatively high (60F). Locals would buy the beer out of primary and allow secondary fermentation in crocks at their homes. As a style, it is extemely variable. It is similar to the "red beer" phenomenon in that you have a great deal of leeway in what you throw into the kettle since it is not a specific style. Consider it a beer typical of this region rather than the overly specific AHA definition. Looking at the largest selling commercial imports, they have an OG of 1060-1074. 5.6-6.6% ABV. There should be an ale like fruitiness, but restrained. The accent is on malt, usually of a spicy, aromatic specification. Vienna malt is predominant grain in the mash. A long vigorous boil is used for carmelization and the saccharificaton temperature leans towards a dextrinous wort. The color is 35-40 EBC. Hops are spicy, but soft. 22-30 IBU using Brewers' Gold, Hallertau, Spalt, and Hersbruck. The water should be soft. Some people insist on cellar characteristics of oak or corkiness. Lagering at 35F for one month leads to smoothness. Commercial companies usually produce several beers of increasing strenghts and colors as well and stronger winter beers going from deep gold 4.5% ABV to 7%ABV dark winter beers. My recipe is: Vienna 9 lb Crystal 80 .25 lb Wheat .5 lb Aromatic .25 lb Mash per Dr. Fix (40-60-70C). N. Brewer .5 oz 8.8% 60 min N.Brewer .5 oz 8.8% 20 min H. Hallertau .5 oz 5.25 2 min Boil 120 min Yeast Labs' Munich Lager 26 IBU 16 Lovibond- 40 EBC OG 1063 FG 1015 Primary 5 days at 70F Secondary 14 days at 45F Best of Show at SNERHC. Judges comments: Delicious, creamy. You captured the earthiness this style requires. Very bright. Head stays to the end of the beer. 41 points. - --- Kit Anderson "Welcome to Northeast Texas- Bath, Maine a survival guide for Texans in New England" http://members.aol.com/garhow1/kit/index.htm Maine Beer Page http://www.maine.com/brew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:42:49 +0000 From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com> Subject: AHA/AOB: the $100,000 Question Randy, You understand completely the $100,000 question. Nathan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:55:20 +0000 From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com> Subject: Counterflow Chiller / Trub Removal / Ray Daniels book George DiPiro states: >I have had good results removing cold break by using a trub sack. I >use small cotton bags (homemade). I boil a bag, stuff it inside the >neck of the fermenter, and run the wort from the chiller through it. Curious, could you get away with one of those "permanent" coffee filters? You know, those "gold" kind. I use one to strain yogurt to make yogurt cheese. I thought about using it exactly as you describe in my last beer but didn't feel I knew enough about cold break to remove it. If you think it will work, I'll try it next week. On another note, Jethro tells us: >Attended the Craft Beer Institute Seminar on Recipe Formulation in Kansas >City yesterday, led by Ray Daniels. Highly recommended as is Ray's book, >Designing Great Beers. Jethro, what is the ISBN for this book? I think many of us would like one but I have not seen such a book in homebrew stores. TIA! :^) Nathan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:44:50 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Summer Brewing >From: "Rene Derieux" <rderieux at dttus.com> >Subject: Stale Beer and Summer Brewing > > The temp. can get into the 90s here in Michigan and I really > don't want to spend tons of money cooling my home to 70F or buying a > separate refrigarator. Any suggestions on how to keep the carboys > cool while fermenting? This works fairly well for ales: And it is cheap if you have a picnic cooler. Just use a picnic cooler that the carboy will fit into and fill it up with water. Place an iced down 2 liter soda bottle into the water. Check it every day, check the temperature and use more or less ice bottles as needed. Cheap, easy (err I guess easy), and quick. Someday if you want to get fancy and like to tinker (who?), you can get a small liquid pump, and a smaller cooler that you fill with ice water, and recirculate into the fermenter picnic cooler. Rig up a thermostat to control the on off of the pump. Happy Brewing Ron Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:52:28 -0500 From: Shelly Marshall <daybyday at erols.com> Subject: REgarding natural alcohol contents I wrote an article on non-alcohlic beers. In the body, I stated some items that had natural alcohhol contents greater then a non-alcoholic beer. I've been getting flack from sober alcoholics who are treatened by this. for instance--a glass of orange juice has more alcohol then a non-alcholic beer (Coors labrotories). I also know a ripe banan does--but don't know how to prove it or reference it. Do anyof you have any info on this or is there an inexpensive way I can test ripe fruit and juices myself? I would appreciate any info as I have my reputation to defend! Thanks--Shelly Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 8:53:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG> Subject: Counterflow clillers and trub removal... George de Piro indicates that a disadvantage of the counterflow chiller is the difficulty one has with trub removal. I disagree, and in fact I believe that this design is superior for the removal of cold break which takes some time to drop out. My approach with my 0.5 barrel system at the end of the boil is to start stirring to drop hops (pellets and whole hops) and after 5 minutes start the CF chiller. The cold wort goes into a carbouy(s) (tightly covered) and after a couple of hours the cold break drops out nicely. I rack off the trub (almost brilliant) and then pitch the yeast. For those of you who are whispering (shhh! infection) note that I usually pitch about 0.5 litres of yeast cake per 50 litres and fermentation is active at 8 hours. I've not had a beer "go off" because of delayed pitching. BTW, I'm not saying that I believe the CF to be better than an immersion chiller. I just find the CF better for my process and system. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 12:12:04 est From: "RTALBOT" <rtalbot at casde.com> Subject: Newbie question - "True Brew" Stout All, I am going to brew my second batch of bear today - its the "Amber" from Brewer's Best. I have tasted it before and its nice, so if I do everything right, it *should* taste good. Question: My _next_ batch will be the "True Blue" Stout. What can I try to do (ingredient or process-wise) to make it sort of smooth and creamy, like Dominion Stout ? I just don't want it too bitter. Thanks in advance, Bob T Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 9:20:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG> Subject: AHA It's good to hear Randy say what I've been saying all along. The AHA, as an association, should have an elected board of directors or representatives that represent, and is responsible to, the membership. Policy is drawn up by said board and implemented by the staff. The staff are there to provide administrative support to the board, and provide a service to the membership, at their direction. If the AHA represents homebrewers (as in, political lobby group) it must be directed by the membership, not by dictatorship, however benevolent. I think Papazian's done a fine job setting up the AHA. But for it to move forward, it must now move in a new direction. The membership must now have a more significant role/voice. Otherwise why be a member? There are too many other fine educational options out there now-a-days. So the issue isn't why/how the AHA was set up in the first place, it's what is it doing lately? Personally, I think it's an easy step for the AHA to take, should they decide to do it. The administrative structure is already in place. Why not go for it? Currently I am no longer a member of the AHA. My membership lapsed about 2 years ago after the BJCP/AHA debacle. I could be convinced to return, but not under the current organizational structure. Jim Cave Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Feb 1997 12:49:21 -0500 From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu> Subject: Judgement Call Subject: Time:11:22 AM OFFICE MEMO Judgement Call Date:2/26/97 I hate to see all the negative comments in the HBD. In spite of something I saw in the HBD a few weeks ago I can testify that yes AlK does take the time to respond to newbie questions and I appreciate all of his posts and time and effort. He seems to draw a lot of criticism but it usually appears to be from newbies who haven't seen the wealth of input that AlK puts in over time. I really appreciate the Daves, AlKs, George, Al, Spencer, Pat, and others who contribute so much. As for Charlie P., I tend to side more with Terry White's opinion but I respect Scott Abene's right to have his own too. As a relative newbie, I appreciate Charlie's books, recipes, and laid back humorous attitude. I don't know how much of Scott's concerns are valid but everyone's entitled to their views. The truth is most likely somewhere in between the extremes. Thanks for all the wealth of knowledge, opinion, and interesting ideas in the HBD but I personally would like to see the FLAMES cooled down a little. John Penn Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:52:59 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> Subject: Chiller length/Flames and abuse cycle Hello all, Recently I constructed a counterflow chiller using Drew Lynch's plans from the brewery. I highly recommend these plans, but I have one suggestion: go easy on the length of tubing. I used ~30' (much less than Drew's recommended 50') and I find my chiller is very effective. 200F down to 55F with a counterflow of less than 2 gallons per minute. Keep in mind this is using 'winter' tap temperatures and water as a test medium (not wort), so I expect to see this heat transfer decrease for actual wort and summer water temps. I think anyone building a chiller could easily get away with 20' with not much more water use. Al K suggests a way to replicate a historically accurate porter: >60% Old Peculier or McEwan's Scotch Ale >10% Cantillon or Boon Gueuze/Geuze >30% Rodenbach Grand Cru > Bill Giffin lovingly responds: >Who in their right minds would waste the above beers to create a beer >that rightfully went extinct. Anyone interested in the history of beer. >See what I mean who would want to lose Al when you can still get >such wonderful insight into the art of wasting good beer trying to make >an old porter. [Al must have pee'd in Bill's mash at some point... it's the only explanation for such a negative post.] Al, I think you've got an idea there, though perhaps just increasing the mix of Rodenbach might give the needed level of sourness? I'm not sure you'd want the Brett character in the porter. It seems that the flame and abuse cycle is peaking again. Relax, post your favourite recipe or something... the junk will pass. It always does. Dave Riedel Victoria, BC, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:09:06 -0600 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner) Subject: Re: brew dogs This is a Mime message, which your current mail reader may not understand. Parts of the message will appear as text. To process the remainder, you will need to use a Mime compatible mail reader. Contact your vendor for details. - --IMA.Boundary.878089658 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I am behind on reading the hbd, but thought you might be interested in my brew puppy. I have an airedale which is not allowed near the brewing process except at yeast pitching time. He is then rinsed with iodophore, shakes/drips dry and is immersed into the wort for 30 seconds at a time on 10 minute intervals for about 2 hrs. That is when vigorous fermentation is noted. He works well with lagers, as well. Lou - --IMA.Boundary.878089658-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 13:12:00 EST From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> Subject: RE: AHA yow yow Randy in Modesto writes: >I don't think I understand this AHA thing. snip >The AHA on the other hand is run by a self-appointed president who >supposedly answers to a Board of Directors. I do know that as a >member, I never had any say in the make-up of this board. Since the >AHA doesn't see fit to disclose just how this board is made up, we'll >have to assume that they are invited to serve by Charlie or his staff. >And that takes just about all of the wind out of the AHA's assertion that >the president serves only at the pleasure of the board. > >I can't seem to think of any type of body that operates under this model. >It seems that for all of the efforts of the AHA to convince us that they are >legit, all they ultimately understand is the almighty buck. And that, after >all, is the only vote that we have. Don't pay the "dues", don't buy the >merchandize, don't buy the books or the magazine, until we're convinced >that our "membership" has some meaning. Maybe then the AHA can be >the type of organization its officers think it is. > >Randy in Modesto Randy, this isn't pointed at you personally, just generally about the on-going thread. I have tried to stay out of this AHA/AOB discussion, but I'll duck in, say my piece and quickly get the hell back out. I think that the answers to the questions at hand are very clear. The AHA/AOB, despite what they claim, is a business, period. Not an "association", not a "membership", not some democratically-run "organization". CP runs it, lock-stock-and-barrel. He doesn't answer to the board, are_you_nuts? He determines how much money everyone makes, including himself. We ain't "members", we're customers. That gives us the right to purchase the stuff that the AOB sells. Nothing more. We don't have the right to elect anyone. CP is not about to give anyone the right to limit his income and ability to run the AOB the way he wants to run it. He started the business, and it's still his to run. The AOB apparently has a legal claim to be called a non-profit (I'm no lawyer). You think that this is first case of someone bending the rules to suit them? Sheesh. They can't answer the hard questions honestly, because that would be tantamount to admitting that they're fraudulently claiming to be a non-profit. Then they'd have problems with the IRS. I don't see why its so hard to understand why Charlie, Karen and Cathy dance around it. Bottom line is: If you think the magazine subscription is worth the price, buy it. If not, don't. In any case, don't expect to have any say in the running of the business -- any more than you would with any other business. If enough customers become dissatisfied with the services provided by the AOB/AHA, they go under just like any other business. My $.02 Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:52:49 -0700 (MST) From: Nathan Moore <moorent at bechtel.Colorado.EDU> Subject: recipe Hi all. I've been working on this recipe for a little while and figured I would run it by you guys to see if it can fly. My last beer got contaminated and my supply is low so I really want this one to be good. I started this recipe out as an American Amber but I'm not sure what it is now. I'm hoping for a malty sweet and hoppy balance with a nice toasted character. IBU:mid 50's depending on alpha of hops OG:low 50's, I'm planning on a slightly shortened sparge so this why this number is lower then what you guys might calculate MALT HOPS(all in oz.) 5lb vienne 0.25 Perle (FWH) 3lb munich 0.5 " " (60min) 1lb munich, home toasted 0.5 " " (45) 0.5lb flaked barley 0.5 " " (30) 0.5lb aromatic 0.5 " " (2) 0.75lb biscuit 0.75 EKG (25) 0.75lb caravienne crystal 0.75 EKG (10) 0.75lb caramunich crystal 0.5 Cascade (10) 0.25lb scottish crystal (90l) 1.5 Cascade (dry) 1 tsp Gypsum in mash WYEAST American Ale 40-60-70 step mash I'm planning on calling this To Hell with it Ale because, as you can see, that is the attitude I took when I was working on the recipes and trying to decide what to add and what not to. My main worry is if this has enough enzymes. I've never made a beer with vienne and munich as the only base malts. Any other comments would be appreciated, have I over done it? TIA and private is fine Nathan "not a member of the AHA, but will continue to go to the GABF and buy interesting editions of Zymurgy" Moore Denver, CO Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Feb 97 14:16:19 EST From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: wort clarification, Brewsters: As often as I agree with George DePiro, on this one we have different opinions. George says: > I find that this is one > of the disadvantages of CF chillers; complete trub removal by > whirlpooling is more easily done when using an immersion chiller. Sorry, but my experience is just the opposite. As I have detailed elsewhere, I use a filter (Choreboy) on the entrance end of the racking cane after whirlpooling and my wort is crystal clear going into the CF chiller. The hops act as an excellent filter for the trub and I get a good flow rate. This method of filtering off the trub through the hops in a hop back has been practiced for centuries because it works. It may be that your method is needed to filter out the rabbit food type pelleted hops if you use them. But I would guess this cotton bag would do a better job at the entrance end of the racking cane with maybe a rough filter like a choreboy outside it even with these fine hops. If you physically agitate hops and trub by sucking them up, my experience is that it is impossible to filter inline as you are doing and get a clear wort because the flocculated trub gets re-dispersed. This method of filtering at the entrance end of the racking cane is effective whether you are dealing with hot or cold wort and can therefore be used with the CF chiller or the immersion chiller. - ----------------------------------------------------- AlK says: Really, Dave, no offense meant, but... put away the photochemistry texts > and try this experiment. I'm sure we'll agree then. Perhaps try four > bottles (two dark, two sunny, two smelled after a day, two after a month > at 50F in the dark) and kill two birds with one sixpack. No offense taken, but why should I throw away real science for a relatively uncontrolled experiment at least as far as the components with an unknown history are concerned? I am trying to fit all these observations on skunking into a scientifically understandable package. I have never disagreed that bottle skunking can occur if beer is mishandled by being kept in the light and not light proofed by using modified hop acids, just tried to understand why 1) so-called skunking occurs in beer that's never seen the light, 2) why brewers outside with boiled wort don't get skunking, yet their beers being consumed at the time do experience temporary skunking which can appear and disappear in a matter of a few minutes in going from sun to shade and 3) why a photochemical reaction discussed and depicted as a direct photochemical reaction in many articles can never happen as depicted because the main actor doesn't absorb the wavelength of the incident light allowed by colored bottles or even clear lime glass. Yet beers in brown bottles as well as green do get photochemically skunked and/or at least get labelled as skunked. I think I understand the "black box" of this reaction without understanding the chemical details. 1) something else which absorbs in the green/ blue wavelength area is obviously absorbing the light and initiating a series of reactions some of which end in producing prenyl and possibly related mercaptans. Most studies on this reaction agree on this point that iso-humulone is not absorbing the light and reacting directly 2) the skunk reaction in the bottle looks to me more like a free radical reaction based on lots of things, including colors of beers, concentrations of reactants and the reaction products, rather than an energy transfer as suggested by most authors. 3) Funky old beer also gets called skunked when it just has a bad odor from other things, possibly certain of the hops, and not photochemistry. We need a standard - Maybe a Bud's surface in an open glass in the sun or a UV light. 4) Since no glass gets in the way, direct photolysis of iso-humulone can happen to the surface of even highly colored beers, the beer can smell skunked, yet be only temporary since this is just on the surface and not in the body of the beer. 5) Your and some others' observation that skunkiness can disappear on warmish storage (50F, e.g.) could be explained by the slow hydrolysis of the mercaptan at beer pH's, so I don't find it a chemical impossibility, but I wonder why the industry doesn't use this method of beer storage to prevent skunking or repair skunked beers. - ------------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:44:55 -0800 From: pms at psconsult.com (Patrick Stirling) Subject: Re: Composition of extract from steeped versus mashed grains Pardon me if this is a silly question, but what's the difference between mashing and steeping? I thought mashing *was* steeping, i.e. soaking the crushed grains in water at a specific temp. for a specific time. patrick pms at psconsult.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:27:00 -0500 From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at chinook.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: Canadian Amateur Brewers Assoc. event/competition Greetings HBDers, long time no speak! I have been reading my HBD's=20 dutifully, but a busy life has kept me from posting in quite awhile.=20 Hopefully I will be more active in the future... =09Anyways, the reason for my post: As the new secretary for the=20 Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA), I have decided that it's=20 about time we started announcing our competitions, seminars, etc. on the=20 HBD. (I have noticed that this is common practice for many organisations,= =20 so I assume that this is not bad netiquette. If this offends, please let=20 me know...) =09I'm afraid that this is short notice, but future announcements=20 will be more timely. Regarding the competition, if anyone wants to enter,= =20 send me private e-mail, and i will forward a pdf file with the entry form. =09Long live the HBD! =09Eamonn McKernan =09eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca THE CANADIAN AMATEUR BREWERS ASSOCIATION Home - brew Competition, Seminar & Awards Dinner For the sixth consecutive year the Canadian Amateur Brewers Association=20 presents the "March in Montreal" Competition, Seminar and Awards Dinner=20 on Saturday, March 22nd, 1997 THE COMPETITION This year, as in previous, the competition Entries will be limited to one entry per person per category. Medals and certificates will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, 3rd and best novice in each of the 8 categories, as well as 1st, 2nd, 3rd, best novice in the best of show and best club. See the competiti= on rules and entry forms for more details. ENTRY DEADLINE : MARCH 8th 1997 CATEGORIES :Continental Lager, Pale Ale, Brown Ale, Porter, Stout, Specialt= y (herb and unique fermentables) , Belgian and this years look-alike category= , Blanche de Chambly. The beers will be judged by qualified beer judges from across the country. The look-alike beer will be judged by a panel of judges from Unibroue. The results will be announced at the "March in Montreal" Awards Dinner (see bel= ow for details) THE SEMINAR The seminar will be held at Montreal's newest Brewpub, Brewtopia, 1219 Cres= cent St. Our speaker at the seminar will be Pierre Rajotte, noted author, who will be speaking on Brewing Belgian Beers. Lunch and samples of Brewtopia's fine ales will be served. Brewmaster Bruce McNab will show us the brewpub'= s brewing facilities. THE BREWERY TOURS We will be taken by bus to the Unibroue brewery where Brewmaster Gino=20 Vantiegham will guide us on a tour of the brewery. We will then depart=20 for a tour of La brasserie Seigneuriale, in Boucherville. THE AWARDS DINNER=20 Upon completion of the brewery tours, the bus will bring us back to Montrea= l. The Awards Dinner will be held at la Maison des bieres import=82e, 1418 Car= tier, (metro Papineau). This virtual Beer Mecca boasts a beer menu of over 100 beers, featuring almost all the local micros on tap. The Competition winne= rs will be announced and medals and certificates awarded Join us for a day of good food, excellent company, informative speakers and the best beers in town. TICKET DETAILS Seminar & Brewery Tours (includes lunch and bus) =20 $50 members $60 non members Awards Dinner $20 members $25 non members Whole Package $65 members $80 non members Dinner Guests accompanying members $20 CABA Membership $21 RESERVATIONS & INFORMATION Graham Bigland: (514) 683 8681 email brewerg at securenet.net Return to table of contents