---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Break removal, rehydrating yeast ("David R. Burley")
  What's the brew dog's favorite malt? ("Reed,Randy")
  Coopers yeast (DAVE SAPSIS)
  Under colored stout (TheTHP)
  Kegging AND Bottling (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com>
  re: Old Hops (Charles Burns)
  Wort evaporation question (Mike Spinelli)
  re: vigorous evaporation (Charles Burns)
  Re: Old Hops ("Rob Moline")
  Partial mashing of carapils (Doug Otto)
  Wheats/Cold Break/Thanks AHA! (TEX28)
  Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (Eamonn McKernan)
  6 Days remain to enter the March MashFest (Scott Mills)
  Carboys ("Gregory T. Beaton")
  Recipe ("Gary Loney")
  HOP HARVEST (David Townsend)
  yeast fermentation odors (smurman)
  Oxygen (John_E_Schnupp)
  Compensating for Evaporation (Tim Fields)
  Static (John Varady)
  Export Hell, Heller Export (Jim Busch)
  re: splitting CO2 to multiple kegs (John Wilkinson)
  Autopsies, brew cat ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
  Ongoing Porter thread (PVanslyke)
  re: fermenting in 10 gal corny ("Ted Hull")
  12oz vs. 22oz bottles/is it still fermenting? (Richard Levenberg)
  Sieving hot wort, ("David R. Burley")
  RE: AB specialty brewing (John Wilkinson)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 14:40:28 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Break removal, rehydrating yeast

Brewsters:

Marty Tippin comments that he always has trouble with filtering off his
wort as some of the trub comes over.  He also points out ( and George De
Piro concurs) that George was talking about both hot and cold break removal
simultaneously and this is the reason George prefers the spiral chiller
versus the counter-flow chiller. Obviously I don't disagree with that, but 
I still believe that once the trub has been disturbed it is extemely
difficult to filter. I would think that a filter at the entrance to the
racking cane is still preferable.

I can comment that I really have no trouble getting clear wort over into my
CF chiller from beginning to the end, and that  I have virtually no liquid
in the bottom of my boiler at the end of the siphoning, just greenish brown
splooge,as some have called it, consisting of hops and hot break. I am
always amazed when clear liquid flows out of what appears to be a goopy
semi-solid mass, but it does.  Tipping the boiler carefully towards the end
allows me to get all the wort. Wort coming out of the CF chiller is of
course cloudy with cold break.  I leave the cold break in the fermentation
vessel and it gets removed at my first racking into the secondary carboy
after a few days of fermentation.  Although the flow out of the boiler
through a Choreboy strainer on the racking cane is steady with no problems
it takes maybe fifteen to twenty minutes because I use a 50 foot CF chiller
and a small drop of maybe 2 feet (both of which moderate the flow) to make
sure I get the maximum cooling to near tap water temperature. I also use
exclusively whole leaf hops or 1" plugs. No rabbit food.
- ------------------------------------------------
Liz Blades announces that her tap water is a yeast killer at a pH of 9.3. 
Can you say biological contamination? or liming that is out of control?
Does the pH go lower on boiling? I have never heard of yeast being killed
by water at a pH of 9.3, but I have never heard of anyone with this
problem. You should always boil and cool your rehydration water before
sprinkling the yeast on its surface without  agitation, wait ten minutes or
until it is all wet out and then stir. Add it to the wort or your starter
solution.  If this tap water pH persists after boiling and cooling to 70F
and you still suspect it is a yeast killer, then just sprinkle the yeast
directly on the wort or if possible dilute a small amount of  the wort to
about 1.020 and rehydrate the yeast in that
- -------------------------------------------------
I would love to change the editor width on this WinCIM mailer as Scott
begs.  Any one know how?  Compuserve sure doesn't and hasn't known for a
year or more.  Gurus? Some help - thanks.
- --------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 14:57:00 -0500
From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com>
Subject: What's the brew dog's favorite malt?

Biscuit Malt, of course.


 -Randy

Reminder - Entry deadline for the Second Annual South Shore Brewoff
is March 15th!
=====================================================
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chase cars."                                     Ann Reed
=====================================================
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:36:22 -0800
From: DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov (DAVE SAPSIS)
Subject: Coopers yeast

     A number of folks commented about the Cooper's profile.  Of particular 
     concern was my statement about the yeast being multistrain.  Two 
     pieces of evidence point out that this is possibly incorrect, despite 
     it being told to me by folks at the Brewery (but hey, I was also told 
     there were highly guarded about techniques, so maybe they were trying 
     to lead me astray....)
     1.  As reported by Jeff Renner, the YeastLabs A01 "Australian Ale" was 
     isolated from a fresh bottle of CSA brought over to Jeff a number of 
     years back.  He gave it Dan, who presumably streaked it out, isolated 
     a single colony, and has used that as the strain source since.  I do 
     not know if Dan made any attempts to delve into the possibility of 
     mixed strains, which if not obvious from a morphological standpoint, 
     requires some substrate factor experimentation.  In any event, the A01 
     is a pure strain, and is derived from the Sparkling.
     2) As reported to me by Dave Draper, he sent some slurry on a filter 
     paper out to Dominick Venezia, who also reportedly isolated a single 
     strain.  It could be that there were multiple strains that were missed 
     in the colony selection process.
     
     The strange thing is, that the character if the Sparkling is obviously 
     highly dependent on yeast, and that both the bottle conditioning and 
     the flocculation aspects of the yeast seem relatively peculiar.  
     Others have noted the tendency for the yeast to flocc very well when 
     cultured out of the bottle.  It is possible that Coopers does yeast 
     selection for bottle conditioning that promotes low flocc in the first 
     generation, but that it becomes increasingly more sticky as it 
     ferments its way along.  This and other fodder are why we are trying 
     to get some solid info before proceeding with the article.  I still 
     have some bottles, and plan to at least look at it under a scope to 
     see what's up.  If the cells all look similar, we will have to 
     elaborate the identification/selection process.
     
     Couple other points: Jackson identifies the og as 1044-1046, which may 
     be close to correct when one figures in the additional sugars added at 
     bottling.  The beer is quite highly conditioned, and the simple sugar 
     additions promote high attenuation.  Jackson also claims that they use 
     liquid cane sugar.  I was not able to observe the form of the sugar 
     used, but think he is probably right, and the brewer simply used 
     glucose to denote a " pure" sugar, i.e., not from the activity of the 
     mash.  Hell, they have recently added a rather large honey operation 
     (Leabrook Farms) to the plant, so who really knows whatall they are 
     using.
     
     The maltings in Cavan, is apparently considerably closer to Adelaide 
     than I reported (Thanks for the note Stephen).  I was short on time 
     and did not get a chance to visit the maltings unfortunately.    
     Cooper's literature does say that the maltster ships about 70% of 
     their product oversees, mostly to Asia.  Must be a pretty big 
     operation, as Coopers does about 1 million hL of beer, and countless 
     tin cans of syrup, all from less than 30% of the malt production from 
     this facility.
     
     Just as an aside, the wine country that Myles spoke of is truly worth 
     a visit.  Both Barossa and Clare have a number of small family 
     wineries, producing many interesting products.  One such is an amazing 
     Black Shiraz made by Rockford.  A sparkling red that boggles the mind.
     
     This area is also home to numerous coopers (the trade of building 
     wooden casks, not the family), and it was here that i had a 45 L 
     custom cask made from old port barrels made up for me.  Full of 
     plambic now,  I must be the only one in California with an old french 
     oak via South Australia rebuilt barrel in my garage.
     
     As Jeff posted today, Dave (I'm not from here) Draper, no longer is in 
     Sydney.  In fact, he was my houseguest last thursday, and indeed has 
     found himself the proverbial "hard money" at the University of Texas 
     -- Dallas.  I have talked him into once again joining this forum, for 
     which his thoughtful posts have recently been missed.  Lets keep it 
     clean, and I'm sure other notables will again return to the fold.
     
     cheers,
     
     --dave  

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:12:17 -0500 (EST)
From: TheTHP at aol.com
Subject: Under colored stout

Dear HBD,

I think its time that I break down and purchase a brew app. I recently racked
over my Guinness style stout. The FG was fine but the color was way off. More
like a not-quite-so-pale ale.  How can I darken this to Guinness clone
standards? I realize that Chocolate malt has not protein value left in it, so
does it therefore have no sugar value either? If not, or if so, Could I do a
partial mash of Pale and Chocolate and use a quart for priming? I already
have .8 quart of beer "souring". And a completely full 2ndary. I plan on
canning some DME and some stout for future yeast/sour culturing. (yes, I have
a pressure cooker) 

How much grain and SG points of how much Liquid do I need to prime with?
Toss in the thought that I saved the yeast and could make this a Krausen??
Gulp now I am getting complex. Help??????

Phil.
Poison Frog Home Brewery 
[Dave is right--The more I learn about beer the more I realize I need to know
more about beer!]

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:14:58 -0800
From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Kegging AND Bottling

I have recently started Kegging my beer, and am lucky enough to have a
couple of 3 gallon kegs.  Can anyone tell me how much corn sugar or
honey would be good to prime the remaining two gallons or so?  I am
afraid of exploding bottles.

thanks!

Brander (Badger) Roullett  badger at nwlink.com  a-branro at microsoft.com
Homepage:  	http://www.nwlink.com/~badger
Brewing: 	http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Resume: 		http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/resume.html
- ----------------------In TheSCA
Lord Frederick Badger of Amberhaven, TWIT, Squire to Sir Nicholaus
Red Tree Pursuivant-Madrone, An Tir  Marshal-College of St Bunstable


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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 97 13:40 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: re: Old Hops

In HBD 2362 Jethro Gump talks about floating whole hops:

 ...But the thing is when added at end of whirlpool, the bloody things 
floated! Not that they sat on top of the hot wort, but they could be seen 
suspended in the wort, rather than settling to the bottom, as normal. (In 
dry hop, the bag of hops did float for a time.)...

Someone accused me (a beer judge no less) of using stale hops one time when 
I dry hopped an IPA with Cascade whole hops. Every time I have dry hopped, 
the hops have ***Always*** floated. I shove the hop cones into a secondary 
fermenter and rack the beer right on top of them. The hops will float to the 
top every time. After two weeks in the secondary, they're always still on top.

Am I getting stale hops? Do I need to switch suppliers? I have not yet seen 
a hop package with any dating on it.

Charley


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 97 16:46:37 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Wort evaporation question

HBDers,

Can someone give me an estimate on much wort will evaporate in say, an hours
boiling time in a 60 gallon tank with a diameter of 24" and a height of about
36".  If I wanted to make say 20 gallons of beer, would I need to start the boil
with 24 ?

My quess is the bigger the vessel the more evaporation occurs..

Thanks

Mike Spinelli


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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 97 14:06 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: re: vigorous evaporation

Dan Ritter in HBD 2362 talks about how he vigorously boils away 1.75 gallons 
and replaces with water...

I also usually boil like crazy and will lose up to 2 gallons in an 80 minute 
boil. Yesterday I decided to run a little extra sparge water (like 1.5 
gallons) through the mash tun while I started the initial boil.

I boiled for 30 minutes and then added 1+ gallons of wort (unknown SG, but 
very lightly colored for an Amber) to the boil. I didn't stop the timer, but 
it was back up and boiling within 5 minutes. I was short time yesterday so I 
cut the boil off at 1 hour exactly. Everything looked good.

Eventually (after cooling) I racked the wort into the primary. It was **much 
lighter colored** than I expected. I ended up with very close to 6 gallons 
of wort which I estimate now at about 14 SRM instead of the 18 SRM I was 
shooting for (high end of Amber range). I guess I should have continuted the 
boil another 20-30 minutes. I was really surprised and disappointed at the 
color (tastes great though). Longer boil would have 1) reduced volume over 
which to spread the color and 2) made it darker by the carmelization that 
would have occurred.

So, its ok to add water or wort, just make sure to adjust the boil time.

FWIW
Charley


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 97 16:00:51 PST
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: Re: Old Hops



- ----------
> In HBD 2362 Jethro Gump talks about floating whole hops:

> Someone accused me (a beer judge no less) of using stale hops one time
when 
> I dry hopped an IPA with Cascade whole hops.

	Sorry for any mis-understanding....but I meant  hop pellets...
Jethro


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 14:14:48 -0800
From: Doug Otto <dotto at calweb.com>
Subject: Partial mashing of carapils

Hi all.

Can I expect any mouth-feel benefit from say around a pound of carapils
used as an adjunct in an extract brew?  Does it's lack of enzymes
require that I mash it?

thanks

- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doug Otto                                      otto at alldata.com
Alldata Corporation                            dotto at calweb.com
Technical Manager, Database Development    (800) 829-8727 ext. 3137

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:34:21 -0500 (EST)
From: TEX28 at aol.com
Subject: Wheats/Cold Break/Thanks AHA!

I had posted this question a few issues ago with no response. After further
research, I still find that the various forms of 'wheat' in recipes are
tossed about indescriminately without much explaination. To ask again:

In HBD #2339 and #2342 Kit Anderson & Jim Busch comment on my Belgian Wit
Recipe-

5# Belgium 2-Row
4# Malted Wheat
 .5# Flaked Oats

KA < I'm sure this is a good beer but it will be truer to 
   < style substituting flaked wheat for the malted wheat.

JB < Why stop there?  Use raw wheat for real authenticity.

Perhaps someone can explain the proper usage of raw, flaked, malted, Cream
of, or torrefied wheat grains. I chose malted wheat because the main grain in
my bill is Belgian Pale 2-row with a low diastatic power (60). Does flaked
wheat have enough enzymes for conversion? Do European brewers generally
prefer flaked or raw wheat? 
- -----------------
As I understand it, cold break can be removed anytime before fermentation
commences. In fact, it may be beneficial to allow the yeast to respire on the
trub (trub has goodies that yeast need for fermentation, right?). So one can
CF chill, aereate, pitch yeast, and allow break to settle. Then rack just as
fermentation begins.
- -----------------
As a relative newcomer to the Homebrew community, I was greatly pleased with
my brand new membership in the AHA. Besides the beautiful beer coaster and
the nice sticker for my carboy, I was overwhelmed by the expanse of knowledge
(and advertisements) in my first issue of Zymurgy. My beer is certain to
improve after reading the feature article on Can Openers! 
(I learn more in a week of HBD, although I did like Ken Schwartz' cheapo
CPBF.)

Chris Pertschi
'Don't drink and drive - you will spill beer!'



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Date: 	Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:39:24 -0500
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at chinook.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Canadian Amateur Brewers Association

	Greetings again! I apologise if my mail has the same screwy 
characters at the end of each line, like my last post. I have no idea how 
to fix this! 
	I am writing in response to requests for more information about 
the Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA). It seems some of you 
have never heard of us. Here's the scoop...
	CABA is a non-profit, volunteer run organisation. Our objective 
is the promotion of homebrewing, and the education of homebrewers through 
educational seminars, workshops, and publications. Our membership runs in 
the hundreds across Canada, with some US (our Vice president is actually 
from Rochester, NY!) and other foreign members as well. Our main 
activities (March in Monreal, Great Canadian Homebrew Conference, All 
About Ales Competition and Brewery Tours, Beer Judge Training, and 
Flavour Perception Seminars) are centred around Toronto and Montreal, but 
this is mainly a reflection of our present membership distribution. We 
have a small bi-monthly newsletter, we offer a brew buddy program, and a 
brew doctor service for diagnosing problem batches of homebrew. 
	Oh yeah, and we love homebrewing!
	If there are any further questions, please feel free to contact 
me through private e-mail.
	Eamonn McKernan
	CABA Secretary
	eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca



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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 16:53:18 -0700
From: Scott Mills <smills at fortnet.org>
Subject: 6 Days remain to enter the March MashFest

                        ENTRY DEADLINE SATURDAY MARCH 8

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Seventh Annual March MashFest
                                 March 22, 1997

The Mash Tongues of Fort Collins, Colorado invite you to enter our Seventh
Annual March Mashfest.  We will accept all homebrewed beer and mead.  This
competition is sanctioned by the AHA.  The number of Categories will be
determined after all of the entries are received.  Historically we have had
around a dozen Categories.  Medals will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place
entries in each Category, as well as for Best of Show in Beer and Mead.
Cool prizes will also be obtained from local microbreweries, brew stores,
and micro-oriented taverns to accompany the medals.  One first place winner
will be selected to work with the Brewers at Dimmer's Brewpub in Fort
Collins to scale up their recipe and brew it at Dimmers!

You can get complete information about the MashFest and download an entry
packet from the Mash Tongues club Web Page at;

   http://www.fortnet.org/~smills/masht.html

Or, if you prefer you can contact us via US Mail, E-Mail, or Phone and we
will mail or FAX  you a packet.

Hurry!!  The deadline for entries is    March 8, 1997.

For more information check the Web Page or contact;


Scott Mills
7512 Leslie Drive
Loveland, CO 80537
970-669-6088
smills at fortnet.org


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 22:24:34 -0500
From: "Gregory T. Beaton" <g.beaton at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Carboys

Fairly new at this and have been reading HBD with a vengeance.  Thanks
to all of you who take the time to make this a great forum, and act as
mentors to us newbies to homebrewing.  My question is this.  The glass
carboys of yesterday - for water coolers, at least - have all been
replaced by plastic ones.  I can only assume from the fact that I have
not read one comment related to using these as fermenters that they are
OK for drinking water, but not for wort.  I would be interested in any
thoughts or comments.  TIA.

Greg Beaton

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:40:53 -0500
From: "Gary Loney" <gloney at awod.com>
Subject: Recipe

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC282C.553BB660
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

HBD Readers
I am in need of a Belgian Ale Recipe. If you have ever brewed such a
Heavenly Brew, please pass along your recipe.

Gary Loney
gloney at awod.com

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC282C.553BB660
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">HBD Readers<br>I am in need of a =
Belgian Ale Recipe. If you have ever brewed such a Heavenly Brew, please =
pass along your recipe.<br><br>Gary Loney<br>gloney at awod.com<br><br></p>
</font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC282C.553BB660--


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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:56:33 +1100 (EST)
From: David Townsend <davidt at southcom.com.au>
Subject: HOP HARVEST

I have grown my first harvest of hops and I think they are ready.  On
several plants the flowers are papery and there is a yellow powder around
the base of the 'petals'.  Are they ready to pick?

Also, do you need to do any thing apart from cram them into a glass jar and
freeze them.  I do not have CO2 or I would put some of that in the jar first.

Thanks for your help.

Nigel Townsend
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 23:23:26 -0800
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: yeast fermentation odors


I need some help debugging what is going on with my brews.  Of the last
6 batches I've made (5 ales - 1 lager), 4 have given off a very strong
yeast odor while fermenting (3 ales - 1 lager).  The two that didn't
give off a strong odor where a Dunkelweizen and a Chimay clone; two
yeasts that are strong phenol producers.

The beers themselves taste fine after fermentation, but this odor 
lingers with the beer for quite some time.  I just bottled a stout
after 1 month; it took that long for the odor to subside.  The 
best way I can describe the smell over a phone line is that it's
like the inside of a Wyeast smack pack after it's been used.  

I'm pretty confident I don't have a bacterial contamination problem.
A wild yeast is possible, but also doubtful.  The beers just taste
too good after the odor goes away.  I'm drinking an ESB now that is
5 months old.  At 1 month it was almost undrinkable, but now it's
one of the best beers I've ever made in terms of general quality,
and also subtle points such as hitting the flavor profile the 
recipe was designed for.

I've made starters from my yeast bank, captured slurry, and fresh
Wyeast packs and gotten the same odor from each.  I've also tried
glass and plastic fermenters.

I know I shouldn't complain too much if I'm brewing the best beer I've
ever made, but this is an annoying problem.  The smell is strong,
which makes analyzing the beer difficult, especially when you have to
dry-hop or something similar (another strange thing is that
dry-hopping does seem to still work under the odor).  It's also very
annoying to have to age a beer for two months simply to get it to
smell like beer and not yeast.  My lager has been aging for two
months, and I hope I can bottle it before the summer.

I've a couple of WAG's of my own, but I'd like to hear any ideas
or firm knowledge the HBD can offer.

SM

http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy
for homebrew related web crap.

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:46:02 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: Oxygen





In HBD #2364  C. D. says:

>If one's oxygenating after racking all the wort to the keg, fitting a
>standard airlock to the keg's gas-in fitting should work- bubbling thru
the
>air lock would almost directly relate to the rate you're injecting o2.  If
>the flow is difficult to throttle, a needle valve in the o2 line
downstream
>of the o2 regulator would afford finer flow control.

Please note that installing any device in an O2 gas line is potentially
very,
very dangerous.  Any device installed in a O2 environment needs to be
properly
designed.  If components of the installed device (regulator, needle valve,
etc.)
are made from the wrong materials, you are placing yourself at extreme risk
 of
spontaneous combustion. I work in the semiconductor manufacturing industry
and
have seen first hand the effects of using incorrectly designed components
in
gas delivery systems.  Although O2 is necessary for life on this planet,
it's
concentration is only about 20% by volume.  When dealing with pure O2 a
whole
different set of precautions need to be taken.

brewing in the Green Mountain State,
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
john_e_schnupp at amat.com



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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 97 08:01:18 -0500
From: Tim Fields <fieldst at erols.com>
Subject: Compensating for Evaporation

The recent thread re kettle evaporation has me wondering if it matters at 
all when I add water to bring my wort volume up to a target volume of 5 
gals.  I do full wort boils in a 10 gal kettle, but my boiling volume is 
limited to 6 gal MAX to allow for hot break (and that is really pressing 
it).  Sure wish I had spent the extra money for that 15 gal kettle :-(.  
I usually net 3.5 to 4 gal into the fermenter and add water to bring the 
volume up to 5 gal.  Are there any kettle reaction-related reasons to add 
the water during the boil vs adding it to the cooled wort in the 
fermenter?


Reeb!
Tim Fields .. Fairfax, VA
fieldst at erols.com


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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 09:08:23 -0500
From: John Varady <rust1d at li.com>
Subject: Static

I wish people would stop with the nonsense. Bill Griffin and others,
please stop complaining about the AHA. If you feel that strongly,
put up a web page and post the URL, but stop wasting my precious HBD 
bandwidth with the ranting. Everyone who posted about dogs in beer
should be ashamed! That was already covered on the Simpsons (Red
Tick - Suck one dry). People post static just to be heard. It's like
the spoiled kid longing for attention and it's obvious as hell.
The amount of competition posts, reminders, reminders and results
seems like a big waste of HBD bandwidth. Would it be feasible to
create a Homebrew Announcements Digest? A place where competitions
and the like could be posted that would come out weekly? Sorry 
to ask for so much but it gets sickening after awhile.

John Varady

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:15:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Export Hell, Heller Export

John writes about Stadt Brauerei Roth:

<The fourth beer from Roth used the term Hel and Voll at different spots 
<on the label.
<Sampling this beer, we noted 
<that it had a great hop aroma, moderate maltiness and balanced bitterness 
<(we estimated probably around 25 to 28 IBU).  It had too much hoppiness 
<all the way around to be a helles but the maltiness and underlying 
<sweetness was OK for a helles.  It had the right aroma for Pils, but not 
<enough bitterness and hop flavor.  It was too sweet and malty to be a 
<dortmunder style export.  Has anyone tried this beer? 

While we think of the Dortmunder Export as the only Export style of beer,
throughout the south of Germany there are many variants of Heller Export
or Export Hell.  This style of beer is readily found in Baden-Wurttemberg
as well as in Bavaria.  Not sure where the Stadt Brauerei Roth is, I 
dont recall drinking any of this breweries beers.  Anyway, as John described,
Heller Exports are between classic Munchener Helles and Pils in terms of
hopping rates and malt profile.

Vollbier is a common term in Germany to describe a beer of about 13P 
stammwuerze, or original gravity.  The range of stammwuerze for Vollbier
is 11-14P, but Heller Exports are 12.5-14P.  Vollbier is one of three
common beer classes in Germany, the high end is reserved for Starkbier's
at above 16P stammwuerze.  For those lucky enough to be in Munich this
time of year, Starkbierfest is coming at Nockherberg!  The last class
of German beers are Schankbiers weighing in at 7-8P.  Beers of this
class include Berliner Weiss.

I wrote an article on Export biers that will appear in the next issue
of The Malt Advocate, and there happens to be a small decoction micro
brewery in southeastern Pa that makes a very credible Heller Export
called Brandywine Valley Lager.  Those of you who subscribe to the
Hogshead beer club should receive this brand very soon.

Prost!

Jim Busch

See Victory Brewing at:    
http://www.victorybeer.com/

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 97 09:21:54 CST
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: re: splitting CO2 to multiple kegs

Scott Rohlf asked about splitting CO2 to more than one keg.
I have one refrigerator with two kegs and spigots and another with three
of each.  I use what Brewer's Resource calls a Modular Gas Distributor.
It is plastic with a variable number of outlets with a valve on each outlet.
It was $18.95 for the two way and $27.45 for the three way.  Each additional
outlet is $8.50.  It has worked well for me and doesn't leak.
I have no connection to Brewer's Resource.  Their number is (800) 827-3983.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:25:00 -0600
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at hood-emh3.army.mil>
Subject: Autopsies, brew cat

This whole trub removal thread has got me slightly concerned.   My
standard procedure is to dump wort, hot break, cold break, hop crud into
my carboy and rack it off after a good fermentation gets going (I guess
dropping it, although I never referred to it as that).  My current
barley wine has been nothing but trouble.  A volcanic fermentation
clogged the fermentation lock in my 6.5g carboy (a first).  When I took
out the stopper, I was sprayed with foam, hops, wort, ect.  So great was
the force, I left a shadow in the spray that coated the ceiling!  After
installing a blowoff tube, taking a shower, and sponging off the ceiling
I gave a prayer of thanks to patron saint quality beverages that I
didn't have to swab up 5 gallons of beer.  Due to my schedule, I was
unable to rack it before deploying to the Mojave desert.  When I get
back, my barley wine will have 2 months sitting on all that nasty stuff.

Questions:

Can I expect 5g of diesel fuel instead of barley wine?

Just when does autolysis kick in?

Will the high sg mask some off flavors?

What kind of flavor does the break (hot or cold) impart? (or is it an
infection?)

TIA

My $0.02 on the brew mammal thread -- My cat Spooky is my faithful
brewing companion.  She personally samples all the malt extract to
ensure quality and will eat pilsner malt like it was cat food.  She
watches the boiling kettle for boilovers and bats at the foam with her
paw, looking genuinely surprised that it is wet and hot although she has
done it a million times.  She knocks the loose bottle caps off my
bottles when capping as if to say, "these are not seated properly."  She
prides herself on her paw-crafted beers and frequently enters
competitions.  One of these days I'll brew a special catnip lager for
her.

Daniel Goodale (lagering at NTC)

The Biohazard Brewing Company
Home of the zero - g brew in a lung brew kit. 

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:52:25 -0500 (EST)
From: PVanslyke at aol.com
Subject: Ongoing Porter thread

good morning,

Here is a quote from _One Hundred Years of Brewing_ 1903 (reprinted 1974 Arno
Press) on the subject of Porter.

p. 35 'For the first time we now meet the beverage porter or 'entire', brewed
in 1722 by harwood. In the public houses half-and -half (half ale and half
twopenny), or three sheards (ale, beer, and twopenny) are generally drunk
mixed. Porter was invented in order to do away with the drawing from
different casks, and was therefore intended to combine the taste of various
beers, causing it to be called 'entire butt', or entire.

p. 104 Here the author is speaking of top fermentation beers and the after
fermentation (appears to be a secondary-type situation)x 'The after
fermentation commences when the fermentation reaches its highest pitch - when
the yeast settles firmer and denser on the surface. Then the beer is run into
smaller fermentation tubs or transportation casks.'
    'At the beginning of the century (I'm not sure what century the author is
speaking of here, suspect 19th) porter especialy was allowed an extended
period of rest, it being racked into very large storage vats where several
brews were mixed. (this sounds like several brews of porter and not diffrent
kinds of beer) In some of the old London breweries vats of enormous size were
constructed, holding four to six thousand barrels, and one even as much as
eighteen thousand barrels. This practice, however, declined in the course of
time, one-year-old porters being a thing of the past, an age of six weeks now
generally being found sufficient.'

p.661 'We have traced the origin of porter to the London brewer, Harwood, who
put it on the market in 1722. The love of it soon spread to Ireland, and in
1735, of the thirty small breweries in Dublin, quite a number were making
brown ale. It was not until 1759, however, the the plant known as St. James'
Gate Brewery came to the foreground on account of the excellence of its
product.'
'At first the trade of St. James' Gate Brewery was purely local, but the
discovery of roasted malt as a flavoring material, the use of softer water
than that employed in the manufacture of pale ales and other improvements,
finally brought the beverage to such a state of excellence that by 1825 th
efame of the Guinness establishment had traveled abroad, and agencies were
established in the principle cities of England.'
   'By the year 1834 Messrs. Guinness exported thirty four thousand barrels
of porter, x'
'In 1881 the general trade reached nearly one million imperial barrels, and
now exceeds one million five hundred thousand barrels of porter and stout.'

I bring this information not to stir controversy, but just to relay what I
have found.

Paul VanSlyke >> brewing and relaxing in Deposit, NY



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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 97 5:14:47 EST
From: "Ted Hull" <THull at brwncald.com>
Subject: re: fermenting in 10 gal corny

John Wilkinson is looking for suggestions on attaching tubing to 
the small diameter shaft on an airstone.

I had a similar problem with my countertop water filter. The GAC 
(granular activated carbon) side headloss goes up quickly with 
use, until I have to crank the tap open all the way to get a 
modest flow out the other side. Unfortunately, that frequently 
produced a loud *POP* followed by gushing water in the filter 
case as the feed hose from the faucet blew off the GAC filter 
cartridge.  

The hose in this case was 1/4" and I wanted to clamp it on. What 
I did, somewhat flipped around, could work. I cut a short length 
(1/2" or so) of 3/8" tube and cut it up the side to make a 
rectangle. I wrapped this around the hose at the connection and 
then cut the rectangle so there wouldn't be any overlap at the 
two ends. Adding this piece of tubing gave enough diameter so 
that the smallest worm-drive hose clamp could tighten down on 
the two together and hold the hose in place. 

You could do the same, but put the piece of tubing inside your 
air hose and clamp the whole mess together onto the airstone. 
Good luck.

Ted Hull
Atlanta, GA

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 08:57:31 -0800
From: Richard Levenberg <richardl at Adobe.COM>
Subject: 12oz vs. 22oz bottles/is it still fermenting?

Brewers,

I read and read and read but have always come up with questions no one
seems to ever ask.  Sorry if these are elementary, I have two batches under
my belt and am working on a third.  My first batch was rotten but the
second was preferred by my wife over the latest Beer Across America batch (
I liked it too ).

My first question:  the good batch was bottled in January.  I used about 24
12oz bottles and 8 22 oz bottles, all brown glass.  The little bottles are
all gone by now.  The 22 oz bottles are just becoming fully carbonated and
the taste is like the first tastes of the little bottles.  With time the
little bottles became great and I am assuming the big bottles with even
more time will also become great but why are the bigger bottles taking so
long.  I primed with corn sugar boiled in 1 pt water, poured into bottling
bucket, siphoned beer from secondary into bottling bucket, etc.

My second question is on my third batch which is from Homebrewers
Companion, Tickle Me Belgian Ale.  I racked to the secondary and it has
already been 1.5 weeks and there are still teeny weeny bubbles coming up
from the bottom very regularly.  There is never enough to make the airlock
bubble but there is a consistent ring of bubbles at the top of the carboy.
Should I bottle? or should I wait until the yeast is finished doing its
thing?  I used Wyeast Belgian Ale.

Thank you for time and patience with a newbie.

richardl

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:44:52 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Sieving hot wort,

Brewsters:

Chris Brown says:

>As soon as I boil my wort, I pour it through a strainer ......

Stop right there.  Take your wort *directly* to the counterflow chiller via
a racking cane to which a "Choreboy" is attached to the entrance of the
cane. Do *not* oxygenate hot wort as it will produce off flavors and early
staling. You may have seen that infamous picture of Charlie Papazian doing
it.  Sorry, but he is wrong.  I use standard clear tubing from the hardware
store and it holds up nicely and doesn't seem to impart any unusual flavor
to the beer.  Others may advise some specialty tubing which has a higher
service temperature, but is not transparent and may be available from a
medical supply store or a homebrew store.

As far as starting a siphon which will contain near boiling wort I have
never found a way that is both safe and satisfactorially reliable.  I have
tried filling the tube and cane with cool boiled water, holding them upside
down in a "U" and placing the cane into the wort while pinching off the
tube, but it only works part of the time for me as the water runs out of
the cane when Iower it.  I generally very carefully use my mouth, I have
clear tubing, have my head above the top of the liquid, after drawing
liquid part of the way into the tube, I close off the partially filled
clear tube by bending and attach this to the CF chiller located below the
level of the liquid in the boiler. This is very dangerous and I do not
recommend it ( talk abut Mc Donald's coffee - wow!).  I only use it because
I have many years of siphoning experience and have been lucky , so far.  
If you do try it, make sure the other end of the siphon is below the
surface of the liquid and there are no plugs or air bubbles in the line
which can give way suddenly to spray the near-boiling wort into your mouth.
There are some mechanical starters on the market, but I have never tried
them.
- -----------------------------------------------------
Mark Rose says:

>.  I have an all-grain IPA in the secondary in its third week of
>fermentation.  It started at an OG of 1.065, and is now down to 1.020 and
>has been there for a week.  I inadvertently mashed at 155, not the 152
that
>I had planned for.  I think the higher than expected finishing gravity is
>due to the higher mash temperature, but I am not sure.  I plan to bottle
it
>this weekend.  Can I use Yeast Energizer now to drop the gravity any
>further (just drop it in the secondary)?  The yeast is Wyeast 1056,
>American Ale.

This is the perfect situation to use a Clinitest *Kit* ($7 from your
pharmacist)  to determine if you have consumed the fermentable sugars.  If
you get less than 1/4% reducible sugars,  you can bottle at will because
the fermentation is complete, despite what you get for a hydrometer
reading. Adding nutrients will not likely reduce the FG. Say HI to my
nephew Jim and his wife Casey at NASA, Langley.
- --------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 97 12:08:41 CST
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: AB specialty brewing

Aaron Herrick asked:

>What are the other offerings from AB specialty brew?

Last weekend I tried a Michelob Pale Ale, which the label said was dry hopped,
and a Michelob Centennial ale.  The pale ale was lightly hopped not bad but
it was my first beer of the day and I was having it with a barbeque sandwich
so flaws may have gone unnoticed.  I would be willing to try it again but am
not ready to buy more than one or two for that yet.

I didn't care for the Centennial ale but by then perhaps I was growing tired
of Michelob ale.  Perhaps I wouldn't have liked another M. Pale Ale then
either.  I wouldn't bother trying the Centennial again.

I am glad AB seems to be trying, though.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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