---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  aeration ("Layne")
  Patron Saint (Denis Barsalo)
  Patron Saint of Beer ("Aaron Herrick")
  newbie keg question ("Robert DeNeefe")
  Bittering levels of hops ("Aaron Herrick")
  initial mash water (Louis Gordon)
  Newbies - Before You Go and Drop That Beer (John Sullivan)
  Re: New to brewing (Rory Stenerson)
  Re: Patron Saint (Lou Heavner)
  Re:Corrections: Vinyl hose temps / software (Brian Pickerill)
  Local: San Jose, CA area ("Fritz, Kent")
  Hereford Hop Cheese ("Fritz, Kent")
  sour mash (BAYEROSPACE)
  Broad Ripple yeast (Charles Epp)
  Re: My first homemalting,pigeon grains. (Michael Higuchi)
  Re Patron Saint of Brewing (keithzim)
  jan primus (BAYEROSPACE)
  "Scientists explode belly myth with healthy research on beer." (Art Steinmetz)
  PH measurement tool (Gavin Scarman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:35:00 -0800
From: "Layne" <wetpetz at oberon.ark.com>
Subject: aeration


John Wilkinson wrote;
>>Does anyone know the minimum volume of O2 necessary to oxygenate 5
gallons
of wort to the maximum level (8 ppm?)?  By this I mean assuming that all
the
O2 bubbled through the wort was absorbed.  It would also be nice to know
the
practical minimum volume of O2 necessary if that is not too ambiguous a
figure.

Also, would the volume of air be 5 times the O2 number since air is
approximately 20 percent oxygen?  I have asked this last question on HBD
twice
before with no answer.

	I think that you are a little misinformed about aeration and oxygen
saturation or a least on how to get to saturation.
	I've been an aquaculturist for eight years and have had to deal with
oxygen absorption in liquid many a time.
	First, saturation depends on the specific gravity and temperature of the
liquid and the altitude the liquid is at.  At sea level saturation of water
is about 8ppm The higher you get the lower saturation is.  Wort will act
very similarly as S.G. affects oxygen absorption very little.  The warmer
liquid holds less oxygen than cold liquid.
	Second, aeration is 90% carried out at the surface of the liquid where it
contacts oxygen rich (20%) atmosphere.  When using an air stone to aerate
wort it isn't the bubbles that add oxygen to beer.  (Surprise, surprise). 
In fact the bubbles probably only have a fraction of the surface area in
contact with the liquid in which the contact is made and absorption takes
place.  The bubbling serves to move wort (liquid) to the surface where most
of the oxygen is available.  This is done by the airlift mechanism created
by bubbles which lift liquid with them to the surface.
	If a person were to use pure oxygen for oxygenating liquid, (a waste IMHO)
one should use an air stone that gives the finest bubbles possible to
increase the surface area and thereby increasing contact with the liquid. 
If it is possible to add oxygen under pressure the absorption would be
increased as well as the saturation point but it would only dissolve out of
solution as soon as the pressure was reduced to normal atmospheric levels.
	I don't think yeast needs that much oxygen to grow anyway.  Excess oxygen
may induce foreign bacteria, molds and yeast to form.  While yeast does
need oxygen to live the actual level is probably less than saturation
because beer does ferment at high altitude, just slower than at sea level.

Just so everyone knows, after all, it isn't air I want in beer.


Layne 
wetpetz at oberon.ark.com

***********************************************************
To try and fail is better than
failing because we didn't try!
***********************************************************


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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:19:06 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at cam.org>
Subject: Patron Saint

As far as I know, Saint-Arnould is the patron saint of beer and brewing. I
think in english, that would be translated to St-Arnold.

Denis Barsalo



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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:01:56 -0000
From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat at phoenix.net>
Subject: Patron Saint of Beer

Good day, brewsters!

Now with my last post I beleive I ruined all my credibility by saying AB
makes a good beer.  Let the record show that
a) I meant as good as accounting will allow
and 
b) I was drunk.

now then, Mr. Goodale has asked about the patron saint of brewing.  Anyone
in Central Texas should know this, Goodale, drop and give me fifty (pints)!

The Patron Saint of Beer is:  St. Arnold

St. Arnold is also an excellent microbrewery in Houston, who distributes to
Central Texas.  If you get a chance, try a cask-conditioned amber in a
reputable pub.  I say reputable pub because some pubs can't or don't keep
cask ale equipment clean, and we all know what that taste is.


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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:18:28 -0600
From: "Robert DeNeefe" <rdeneefe at compassnet.com>
Subject: newbie keg question

My first keg is filled, force carbonated (I think), and waiting to be
fulfilled (or unfilled, depending on how you look at it).  This first try
at kegging has left me with a lot of questions that I can't find clear
answers to in the archives, but I'll spare the collective and only ask one
for now.  I forced carbonated to about 15 psi at 40F.  I raised the temp
to 45F which is near where I want to serve.  I disconnected the CO2 as I'm
not sure my connections are leak free at the moment and left the keg at 15
psi.  When I want to serve, I need to release all the pressure and only
add enough pressure to dispense with.  Now say I have finished serving the
beer, and I won't be using the keg for a week.  Do I need to repressurize
it to 15 psi (or a little more since the temperature is slightly higher
than when I originally carbonated) so it keeps its carbonation or can I
leave it at whatever pressure was used to dispense it (say 5 psi)?  Stated
more generally, do I always need to repressurize my keg to a level that
would be used to force carbonate it after I'm done serving, or can I leave
it at the (lower) dispensing pressure?  

 Robert DeNeefe
 Greatwood Brewing Co.
 Sugar Land, TX


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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:31:23 -0000
From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat at phoenix.net>
Subject: Bittering levels of hops

A few people have asked about gauging bitterness levels in homegrown hops. 
The best "low-tech" method I know is the hop tea.  buy some fresh hops with
a known AA content (and of the same variety as yours).  Measure a small
amount into a cup of hot water.  This is your known standard give it 30
minutes or so to isomerize.  For the test sample, gradually add your hops
to another cup of hot water, stirring, waiting, and tasting between
additions.  When your test sample is about equal to your standard,
calculate AA's by the following:

[AA value for known hop]* [wt of known added to standard]/ [wt of unknown
added to sample]

By the way, for really bzzare dreams, drink hop tea just before bedtime.

Warning:  Hop Tea is WAY bitter, not for the faint of palate.


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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 09:14:07 -0800
From: Louis Gordon <lgordon at pclink.com>
Subject: initial mash water

It occurred to me today that one of my assumptions is probably not correct.
When I get hot water from the tap, it is somewhat cloudy. I have always
assumed that hot water leaches material from either the hot water tank 
or the pipes ( I have copper). Consequently, when I get my initial mash 
water from the tap, I use only cold water and heat it before pouring 
in the crushed grains. This would be a waste of time and probably 
energy if there is no difference between hot and cold tap water. I 
have never done a water analysys, so I cannot add in that variable. 
Any thoughts on this?


Louis Gordon       Minneapolis

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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 09:52:57 -0800
From: John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com>
Subject: Newbies - Before You Go and Drop That Beer

I read a lot about dropping beer here and just want to offer some advice.
My post is especially important, I think if you are aerating while 
dropping or dropping somewhere past the midpoint of fermentation.

If you are aerating while dropping, I would suggest to those newbies out 
there who are looking to try this to first consider how long it normally 
takes you to get through a batch of your beer.  If you are like me, 
unless I am having a party, it will normally take me 2 to 3 months to get 
through a 5 gallon keg or 2 cases of bottles.  I always have more than 
one batch of beer around the house, so this is about how long it takes 
for me.  Dropping and aerating may have a nice effect on cask ales that 
are meant to be drank within a 2 to 3 week period from completion.  
However, at 2 to 3 months the effect may not be as pleasurable.  These 
are just my thoughts as I have had many mishandled beers that were OK at 
first but gradually turned awful due to the staling that occurs with 
oxidation.

If you are dropping (and aerating or not) late in the fermentation, you 
can probably expect to experience higher levels of diacetyl (i.e., 
buttery/butterscotch flavors and aromas).  Early in the fermentation, 
diacetyl is produced and late in the fermentation, diacetyl is reduced by 
the yeast.  If you are dropping a beer that is early in the fermentation, 
this is probably not a problem, because adequate yeast to perform the 
diacetyl reduction will be generated after you drop the beer. However, if 
fermentation is near complete but diacetyl reduction has not occurred, 
you will be removing the bulk of the yeast necessary to perform the 
reduction.  Now with all that said, diacetyl in modest amounts is not 
necessarily a flaw in many British ales.  Sometimes, a little bit of 
diacetyl (if you are not overly sensitive to it) can serve to make your 
good beer a great beer.  Since this is all a crap shoot, you might want 
to consider instead, to find a yeast that is a great diacetyl producer to 
get this effect.

John Sullivan
St. Louis, MO

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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:26:18 -0500
From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: New to brewing

In HBD #2368 Bob Fesmire asks:

"I am a new home brewer since Christmas 96. I have made 4 Batches of
beer...alll with good to great results. Can anybody give me some sound
advice
as to the ways of homebrewing? This format seems to be a little complex for
the beginner..."

Bob, I would suggest that you find and join a local homebrewing club. 
You'll be amazed by how much you can learn and how fun it can be to share
your ideas, frustrations, and most importantly beer with fellow enthusiasts
 -in person.-  In light of e-mail's biggest weakness, i.e. "flaming" (either
intentional or unintentional) participating in a homebrew club gives you
the advantage of face to face communication which IMHO is still the most
superior means of communication.

Wishing you great success in your brewing endeavours,

Rory Stenerson,
Board Member, State College Underground Maltsters, S.C.U.M.
State College, PA U.S.A.

P.S.  Our next meeting is March 16th please e-mail me if you're interested,
you'd be very welcome.  We'll be doing a thing on wheat beers.



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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:12:30 -0600
From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: Re: Patron Saint

     From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at hood-emh3.army.mil>
     >>>> Subject: Patron Saint of Brewing
     
      That got me wondering, is there a patron saint for brewers? <<<<
     
     Isn't Saint Arnolds in Houston named because Saint Arnold was the 
     patron saint??  Check out their label, although it may be just so much 
     marketing hype/propaganda.  I think they have a web site, but I don't 
     know it off hand.
     
     Lou
     
     <lheavner at frmail.frco.com>

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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Re:Corrections: Vinyl hose temps / software

Yesterday I said:

> ... Recently, I found some
>literature near the hoses at the mega hardware store and they actually
>listed "Beer" in the fine print as an application for the hose!  It does
>get flimsy at high temps, but isn't silicone flimsy anyhow?  Vinyl is a lot
>cheaper if you can verify that it's food grade.

I didn't mean to imply that you should try to use vinyl above it's temp
limit, just that you can sometimes find cheap vinyl that is OK up to about
sparge temps, but you would of course still need silicone or copper, etc...
above that.  The vinyl does get really soft at sparge temps.

- ------

I was charged about Steve Zabarnick's freeware FileMaker and mentioned that
"If you have FM Pro for Macintosh or Windoze, this looks like a great basic
brewing program."  Besides the fact that I misspelled it, :) I implied that
it works in Win 3.1 and ASAIK, it doesn't.  Any Mac or any Win 95 system w/
FM 3.0 ought to handle it though.

- --Brian Pickerill, MMM, Muncie IN



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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:57:53 -0800
From: "Fritz, Kent" <Kent.Fritz at Aspect.com>
Subject: Local: San Jose, CA area

I apologize for burning bandwidth on this subject, but due to selling a
house, buying a house, remodelling, building a bigger brewery, etc., I
will be unable to brew for the next 6 months or so.  I purchased
ingredients for a Marzen in early January and am offering them FREE to
any homebrewer that will come pick them up in Milpitas.
	5.5 lbs Gambrinus Pale
	4 lbs DWC Munich
	1 lb DWC Carapils
	0.25 lb Hugh Baird 30L crystal
	~5 or 6 oz. of Mt. Hood hops
The grains are crushed, and have been stored cool and dry.  Also, for
any South Bay yeast farmers out there, I have YCKC slants German Lager,
German Ale, Irish Ale, Scottish Ale, Belgian Ale, and a petri dish of
Wyeast 3068.  Please email me PRIVATELY on this subject.

Thanks.
Kent Fritz

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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:07:21 -0800
From: "Fritz, Kent" <Kent.Fritz at Aspect.com>
Subject: Hereford Hop Cheese

Just tried a delightful cheese from England called Hereford Hop.  It's a
delightful strong aged cheese with a buttery/nutty/spicy flavor.
Encrusted with hops.  Sorry, didn't try it with beer, but it was great
with Zin.

If you are in the San Jose, CA area, I bought it at Gene's Quito Market
in Saratoga.

Bon Apetit.

Kent.

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Date:     Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:17 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  sour mash

collective homebrew conscience:

dave bradley (hey, did you play for the knicks?) wrote, regarding my sour mash
submission:


>From my recollection, it is not a lactobacillus strain which proliferates
>in a warm mash (105F); rather a few pediococcus strains commonly found
>on grains grow at 105F, particularly under anaerobic conditions, to
>produce acetic acid and not lactic acid.  Some have claimed there to
>be a difference in taste in soured mashes depending on the use of a
>pediococcus or lactobacillus.


just to clarify my source on this, it's greg noonan.  he could be wrong.
i can't recall for sure reading about lactobacillus d. being used in this 
fashion from any other author.  i know charlie p. has a little section in the
back of tncjohb that describes a method for souring the entire mash, but i 
don't remember if he mentions what the microbe is that does it.

speaking of souring the entire mash....

erik vanthilt wrote: 


>In HBD #2367, Mark Bayer suggested an interesting, but lengthly way
>to sour a mash, by : <snip>

>Well, try a much easier method. Take one cup of crushed grain out of
>your grain bill. Put this aside, mash as usual. When your mash is done,
>cool to around 110-120F, as quickly as possible, add cup of grain. 
>Cover and let sit for about 12 hours. Sparge as usual, boil, etc.

there's nothing really inherently difficult about the method i described, in
my opinion.  the good thing about it is, once you've started the sour mash,
you still have the luxury of deciding when or if you want to use it.  48
or 72 hours really makes not a lot of difference.  there's only so much
lactic acid that can be produced from a half pound of malt, so if i originally
plan on brewing saturday, and i have a change in plans and actually brew
sunday, the flavor impact on the beer is not great.  i can even toss it out if, 
heaven forbid, something goes wrong and some mold or wild yeast taints it. 

or, if i decide to brew something different.

speaking of which, i did fail to mention that you should scrape away any
brown discolored or moldy pieces of malt on the surface of the sour mash
before you use it.  there's always some of it at the top that is in contact
with air and gets rancid.

one other thing - if you decide to sour mash the entire batch, be sure to
check the pH before proceeding with the rest of the brewing process.  if you
leave the entire mash to sour, there's a chance that the pH at the beginning
of the boil will be too low and some sort of mineral/base additions would be
required to assure a decent hot break and other kettle reactions.  i believe
hop utilization is somewhat dependent on wort pH also.  


i've actually used the entire mash-souring method on a lambic that is still
in my basement.  i got the idea out of pap's book.  but you have to commit
yourself to 2 straight days of brewing activity.  for me, that's potentially
4 hours of decoction mashing the first day, and then the remaining 4 or
5 hours the next day, or, whenever i get the time.  still, it's a viable 
alternative.    


brew hard,

mark bayer
          

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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 12:48:03 -0600
From: Charles Epp <chuckepp at ukans.edu>
Subject: Broad Ripple yeast

Brewers in the Indianapolis area:

Anybody know which yeast the Broad Ripple Brewpub uses for its ESB and 
its Porter?  I recall that those were outstanding ales; now I wish I'd 
asked about the yeast.  Private email is fine.

Chuck in Lawrence, KS

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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 19:22:57 GMT
From: mhiguchi at ibm.net (Michael Higuchi)
Subject: Re: My first homemalting,pigeon grains.



>
On 6 Mar 97 hoshido at gman.rme.sony.co.jp (Mutsuo Hoshido) wrote:
>Subject: My first homemalting,pigeon grains.
>
>In Japan, barley producers are strictly controlled by the tax office =
since

SNIPPED: Incredible description of home malting process - using pigeon
food.

Well thanks a lot Mutsuo - now I really feel like crap: I've been putting
off brewing 'cause I haven't felt like bottling!  Now I know I have no
excuse not to brew this weekend - I'll be brewing a hoppy IPA in your
honor!



    -      __o      Michael Higuchi
     -   _-\<,_     mhiguchi at ibm.net
   -    (*)/ (*)    Key ID: 0x4AECA14D

Key FP: 31 EE 11 32 B1 9D 85 59  23 A3 6D 70 09 8E 60 8D

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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:15:07 -0600 (CST)
From: keithzim at tgn.net
Subject: Re Patron Saint of Brewing

Daniel Goodale,
 Yes there is a Patron Saint of Brewing

The description below was taken from the Saint Arnold home page at
http://saintarnold.com/saintarnold/   I do not work for them I only like
their beer.

Saint Arnold was born to a prominent Austrian family in 580 in the Chateau
of Lay-Saint-Christophe in the old French diocese of Toul, north of Nancy.
He married Doda with whom he had many sons, two of whom were to become=
 famous:
Clodulphe, later called Saint Cloud, and Ansegis who married Begga, daughter
of P=E9pin de Landen. Ansegis and Begga are the great-great-grandparents of
Charlemagne, and as such, Saint Arnold is the oldest known ancestor of the
Carolingian dynasty.=20

Saint Arnold was acclaimed bishop of Metz, France, in 612 and spent his holy
life warning peasants about the dangers of drinking water. Beer was safe,
and "from man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." The people
revered
Arnold. In 627, Saint Arnold retired to a monastery near Remiremont, France,
where he died on August 16, 640.=20

In 641, the citizens of Metz requested that Saint Arnold's body be exhumed
and ceremoniously carried to Metz for reburial in their Church of the Holy
Apostles. During this voyage a miracle came to pass in the town of
Champignuelles.
The tired porters and followers stopped for a rest and walked into a tavern
for a drink of their favorite beverage.
Regretfully, there was only one mug of beer to be shared, but that mug never
ran dry and all of the thirsty pilgrims were
satisfied.=20

Saint Arnold is recognized by the Catholic Church as the Patron Saint of
Brewers.=20


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Date:     Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:26 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  jan primus

collective homebrew conscience:

the patron saint of brewing is popularly known as gambrinus.  michael jackson
has written about this guy in his books.  one thing i remember is that the
man's real name was not gambrinus, but jan primus, or something like that.

brew hard,

mark bayer

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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 17:27:01 -0500
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: "Scientists explode belly myth with healthy research on beer."

>From The Scotsman, (Edinburgh, Scotland paper) 25 Feb 1997 (C) "Scientists
explode belly myth with healthy research on beer."

Two Welsh chemists are set to be celebrated in bars throughout Britian
after exposing an age old myth - beer, it seems does not make you fat.

They have boiled down the chemical constituents of the average pint and
discovered that beer could almost be classed as a health food. It is full
of vitamins and protein, improves blood circulation and is completely free
of fat.

Anyone crossing the threshold of their local hostelry might challenge that
last assertion given the number of plump stomachs jostling for space at the
bar.

But the scientists can explain this phenomenon. Pot bellies are not caused
by the beer itself but "probably result from the effects of alcohol as an
appetite stimulant", The beer belly, they insist, does not exist - it is
just the product of over-eating.

Professor David Williams and Dr. Jeremy Philpott of the department of
chemistry at the University of Wales, have attempted to restore the healthy
image of beer in an article in Chemistry in Britain. "It is past time to
dispel some of the myths about beer. When used as part of a balanced diet,
beer is beneficial to human health", they say.

They list a series of beneficial components in beer, describing it as a
complete food. It provides carbohydrates, which are a major source of
energy, it includes a small quantity of dietary fibre and is low in salt.
It also contains compounds called iso-a-acids which are antibacterial
properties and have recently been linked to preventing osteoporosis in the
elderly"

- -- Art

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Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 10:20:50 +1500
From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au>
Subject: PH measurement tool

What devices do people here use to measure mash PH?
- ----------------------------------
http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman
mailto:scarman at satech.net.au
- ----------------------------------


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