---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Protein terminology (Harlan Bauer)
  destruction, dropping ("Raymond Estrella")
  Re:  Brewing Music...... (Aesoph, Michael)
  Re: Chilling (John Sullivan)
  Re: Newbie - old ale questions (Brian Pickerill)
  Floating Sediment (Mark_Snyder)
  Help w/ Pilsener mash schedule, please ("Ted Major")
  All wheat all grain starch conversion problems (S Askey)
  Patron Saints of Beer (Oliver Weatherbee)
  Large Primary Fermenters (Scott Abene)
  Pitching a bottle of homebrew (Loe Larry)
  Swing Top Bottles (THaby)
  party pig thanks ("Don Leone")
  Re: brewing music.... ("Scott Braker-Abene")
  Acid Brews ("David R. Burley")
  Yeast Viability from Germany (Dennis Cabell)
  Re: Cold Break Removal => fusels, NOT! (Steve Alexander)
  storing hops (Edwin Thompson)
  Sparging Disaster! Brewer considering Winemaking! (Paul Sovcik)
  WY 1056 question... (BIGGINS)
  Liquid Bread: GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE! (UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
  brewing related home repairs (bkitt)
  sour mash. lactic, thermophillic bacteria (Steve Alexander)
  jan arnold primus (BAYEROSPACE)
  Digging Rhizomes (Marty Tippin)
  Results of Asst. Brewer Questions (Christopher Tkach)
  Re: Chocolate Stout (DGofus)
  1997 Moon Madness Results ("Mark S. Johnston")
  Dropping Whitbread Yeast ("Barry Wertheimer")
  Red Ale Color (James Moncsko)
  Dallas/Ft. Worth Brew Pubs (James Moncsko)
  CAL Controls temp. controller (Marty Tippin)


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  brew.oeonline.com 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at brew.oeonline.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ brew.oeonline.com BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  you must unsubscribe by sending a one line e-mail to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu 
  that says: UNSUB BEER-L

Thanks to Pete Soper, Rob Gardner and all others for making the Homebrew
  Digest what it is. Visit the HBD Hall of Fame at:
			http://brew.oeonline.com/

If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org

ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp from:
	
	brew.oeonline.com	/pub/hbd	
	ftp.stanford.edu	/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  AFS users can find it under

	 /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail 
  using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about 
  this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with 
  the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 01:44:11 -0600
From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Protein terminology

As the digest has been a little thin the past couple of days, I thought I'd
get a thread started. I've been reading a lot on proteins and I'm kind of
confused. Generally, a protein rest can take two forms: 

1. A rest between 113-122*F to hydrolize medium molecular weight proteins
(MMWP) to smaller peptides and amino acids for yeast nutrition.

2. A rest between 104-140*F to favor the hydrolizing of heavy molecular
weight proteins (HMWP) into MMWP for greater viscosity and head retention.


My question concerns the use of terminology in the various brewing
textbooks. Most seem to agree that peptidase is a class of enzyme that
operates optimally in the lower temperature range, and hydrolizes MMWP's
into smaller peptides and amino acids. The first problem arises when I try
to distinguish between protease and proteinase. According to Webster's
Dictionary, proteinase is a subclass of protease, but the brewing literature
seems to use the two terms interchangably. Protease/proteinase seem to
operate in the higher temperature range and hydrolize the HMWP's (that lead
to haze) into MMWP's that promote head retention and greater viscosity.
However, Noonan says, "Proteinase dissolves some of the least complex
albumin to individual amino acids, which fuel yeast growth in the early
stages of fermentation." (p.113) This seems contrary to Fix in PoBS, where
the flow chart on p. 104 suggests that proteinase hydrolizes HMWP's into MMWP's.

What I'm trying to get a handle on is what terms refer to what weight
proteins? IOW, from the following lists, what is the correct order from
largest to smallest molecular weight? And which would go under the headings:
heavy, medium and low molecular weight proteins and the enzymes that
catalyze the reaction? (I realize these enzymes are classes of enzyme and
that there are a lot of specific enzymes represented by each class.)

ENZYMES:

protease
proteinase
peptidase

PROTEINS, PEPTIDES, etc.

globulin
"true" proteins
albumose
albumin
proteose
polypeptide
peptone
peptide

Thanks for the help, I'll post results.






Harlan

   
         Harlan Bauer              ...malt does more than Milton can   
        Carbondale, IL             To justify God's ways to man.       
     <blacksab at midwest.net>                          --A.E. Houseman   
   


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 02:03:18 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com>
Subject: destruction, dropping

 John Peterson asks,
>Also, is there a good "beginner" destructions out there to do
>partial/full mash brewing?  The extract one at rollanet was excellent,
>now I want to step up a level and as good as Charlie's book is, his
>destructions are not complete and sometimes misleading.
 Adding about 2 pounds of Semtex at mash-out followed by a quick zap of 
electricity should give you a pretty good full mash-ed destruction. But watch 
out for the killer caramelization.
and,
From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Subject: Brewing terminology
>I would like clarification on the following terms about brewing
Yep,
Graham Stone says,
> Dropping is done as soon as the fermentation really 
>takes a hold (the yeast crust start forming).  At this stage there is a lot 
>of active yeast in suspension.  What we are trying to do is transfer the 
>wort off any undesirable material (trub, dead yeast etc.) 
 By the time that the  yeast is actively fermenting it is a little late to 
pull it 
off the trub. If it is a good strong fermentation, it is going to be kicking 
up all that stuff at the bottom of your fermenter. You would be better off 
transferring right at the end of the yeast's aerobic stage, what we call the 
lag period,
before the krausen.


Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN
ray-estrella at msn.com

    *******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.*******


Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Mar 97 08:15:01 EST
From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Subject: Re:  Brewing Music......

Dean et. al.



	When it comes to brewing music, bizzarre is best.  Try the sound track 
to "Conan The Barbarian" or "The Eternal Om" or "NASA's Symphonies of the 
Planets" or something really strange, like "Thunderstorm!"



==================================================

        Michael D. Aesoph                Associate Engineer

==================================================


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 07:37:14 -0800
From: John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com>
Subject: Re: Chilling

Heiner writes about expedient chilling and adding ice to his hot wort:

>When I'm finished boiling at brewing time, I place the hot kettle in the 
>sink in cold water and cool; I replace this water in the sink
>twice as it warms up.  

This sounds a bit labor intensive to me.

>Once I've gotten the temperature down a bit (after about 15 minutes), I 
>dump my clean ice directly into the wort (staight out of the tubs). Once 
>the temperature is down below 80 I use my clean ladle to move the ice 
>into the fermenter and then pour (drop) the wort into that.  If
>the temperature starts to drop below where I want to pitch (usually 68 
>to 75F), then I scoop out the remaining ice.  I'm generally done cooling 
>in about half an hour (which seems to be much faster than what folks are
>reporting with the various chillers).

Sounds as if you've shaved 10 minutes off your chill time, but have added 
an additional 20 minutes (more if you consider the pre-preparation of the 
sterile water and containers for making the ice).  This is time that you 
could have used to clean other things up.  You are also doing a lot of 
handling of hot wort that could A) result in injury to you and B) result 
in injury (i.e., infection) to your wort.  

An immersion chiller does not take that much time to use.  At about five 
minutes to knockout, I hook up my chiller (3 minutes tops) and drop it in 
the boiling wort.  At knockout, I cover the boiler in plastic wrap 
(another 2 minutes to ensure it is sealed) and begin chilling.  When 
chilling, racking and pitching are complete, I unhook the chiller 
(another 3 minutes), move it to the basement floor near the drain and 
spray it off.  I then do nothing else to that chiller until the next time 
I brew when I will again drop it into the hot wort.  This works very well 
and there are no ensuing complications. 

I would not advise anyone new to the game to use Heiner's methods.  Spend 
the $40 or so for a wort chiller or spend $25 or so to make your own. 
Cleanup involved with an immersion chiller is negligible.

John Sullivan
St. Louis MO

Return to table of contents


Date-warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Re: Newbie - old ale questions

Tim Plumber is on his 4th batch, planning an old ale, and has a few
questions.  First off, I would say there is absolutely no problem using a 6
gallon bucket for a 3 gallon batch, in fact, it'll make it easier to aerate
the beer at pitching and will eliminate any concerns about the airlock
getting plugged. If it were a problem, open fermentation wouldn't work.

Making a starter is a great idea, but not absolutely necessary if you are
using dry yeast, just use a couple of packs and rehydrate it in some
pre-boiled clorine free water at 90-100F while you are brewing.  If you're
using liquid yeast (it's much better) then you definitely should make a
starter to reduce the lag time.  This is particularly important when
brewing high gravity beers, along with proper aeration of the cool wort at
pitching time.

The old ale or any big (high gravity) brew will take a couple of months of
bottle conditioning to get really good, maybe more depending on how big it
is (there is a lot of latitude in this style.)  Drink a few before it
reaches it's prime to convince yourself.  In my experience, letting it sit
in secondary won't do that much good, it's the bottle (or keg) conditioning
under pressure that will develop the flavor most.  I use a secondary carboy
for most beers, but only until it drops clear and I get the chance to
bottle/keg.

- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie IN



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:27:13 -0500
From: Mark_Snyder at WMX.COM
Subject: Floating Sediment






Mark Snyder
03-10-97 08:27 AM

I've recently completed my second batch of beer using an oktoberfest
variation offered from my earlier post to the HBD (thanks Ken at AOL).
I've used a poor man's mash with Munich malt (3#), pale extract (7#) and
Northern brewer, hallertau and Tettnang hops.  Full 75 minute boil for the
NB and Irish moss added with 15 minutes to go.

Unsweetened gelatin (2 tsp in 1 qt water brought just short of boil) added
to secondary when racking after 1 week, and bottled after the second week (
don't use a hydrometer, I know.....).  The bottled beer is a lovely honey
brown color, but....

My problem is that although a light sediment has formed on the bottom of
each bottle, sediment (floc) is still floating in the beer.  Up to the
bottom of the neck in some cases.  It doesn't look like it will settle out
with time.  I know the floc won't hurt the beer and I won't mind, but one
of the things I have tried to remain primary with my brewing is the
appearance of my beer.  I really want it to appear clear, dark is OK, just
not cloudy with sediment and floc.

Any suggestions as to what went wrong?  I know it's too late for this batch
but I have a third in the primary at the moment and would like to address
this situation before I rack into the secondary.

Thanks in advance.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:28:35 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: Help w/ Pilsener mash schedule, please





I've recently begun full-mash brewing, and when I checked the water profile
here in Athens, Georgia, and it turned out that the water here is nearly as
soft as that of Plzen  (12 ppm calcium vs 10 or 7 in Plzen, depending on
which source you believe).  I'm planning on brewing a Pilsener using
Noonan's grain bill from the Cat's Meow ersatz Pilsner Urquell recipe.  Can
anyone recommend a good step-mash schedule for extremely soft water?  Any
Athens brewers out there who've come up with good all-grain Pilseners or
similar lagers?

Thanks,
Ted Major, Athens, Georgia
tmajor at exr.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:44:50 -0500
From: saa109 at psu.edu (S Askey)
Subject: All wheat all grain starch conversion problems

> Yesturday I mashed 10 lb of wheat with .5 lbs of carapils.
> The mash was held at about 121f for 45 min and the 153f for 120 minutes
> yet total starch conversion was never acheived.  I became bored and
> Mashed aout at that time.
>
> The local wateris hard and 1tsp of gypsum was placed in the mash.
>
> fg was 1.041 for 5.75 gallons while I was expecting about1.056.
>
> Advice as to how I might improve my starch usage in all wheat beers all grain
> would be appreciated.   The folling options are being considered.
>
> 1 Give up and buy BUD.
>
> 2 Increase lenght of protien rest.
>
> 3  Increase length of starch conversion.
>
> 4  Use more barly (this is cheating).
>
> 5  Find enzymes in a bottle and use those (also cheating).
>
> cheers



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:49:07 -0500
From: oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee)
Subject: Patron Saints of Beer


As has been mentioned Saint Arnou (580 A.D.) is widely recognized as the
patron saint of brewers. But there are several other "Beer Saints"
including Saint Adrian, St. Columbanus, St. Florian, St. Bigid and others. 
How about Saint Arnold of Soissons, the patron saint of hop pickers?

For more info, take a look at the following webpage:

http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/history/saints.html

PS. Jan Primus, aka Gambrinus, was not a saint. He was the original
"King of Beers" although I am sure A-B would probably litigate that claim.

 - Oliver

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:18:56 -0600
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Large Primary Fermenters

Hi all, 

I have recently begun doing some real big all-grain batches (My last batch
was 17 gallons to give you all a clue as to how big). 

Is anyone else in the collective doing batches around this size or bigger?
Are you using a number of different primary fermenters? Or are you using a
single very large fermenter? 

When I do a 10 gallon batch I use two carboys but with the 17 gallon batch I
chose a single 20 gallon food grade trash can.

I have also seen the big 14 gallon carboy type things in baskets that are
used for wine making. Anybody using these?

Anybody using copper or stainless type units?

This doesn't have to be an HBD thread so feel free to private email me with
your thoughts and such ( skotrat at wwa.com or sbraker-abene at comark.com ). 

Thanks, 

 -Scott
################################################################ 
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                        # 
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>                 # 
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) # 
#                           OR                                 # 
#  http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) # 
#              "Get off your dead ass and brew"                # 
#     "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer"     # 
################################################################ 


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:15:18 -0600
From: Loe Larry <Larryl at arkleg.state.ar.us>
Subject: Pitching a bottle of homebrew

This may have been asked before, but instead of pitching a starter into
your newly cooled wort, Why can't you just open a homebrew and empty
that into the wort.  Wouldn't it have yeast in it.  Would this work, or
is this a really stupid question?

Larry in Little Rock, AR

BTW, Peter has been the only person to respond to my other question
which was: What is the white layer that seems to cover my partial mashed
homebrew after it has been placed in secondary.  Will it hurt my brew?

Larry

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 10:36:45 CST
From: THaby at swri.edu
Subject: Swing Top Bottles

I have a bunch of swing top bottles (3-4 cases) that I don't use anymore. 
Rather than throw them away I'd like to see them put to good use (filled
with brew). They're free to anyone in the San Antonio are who wants them.

Tim Haby
Southwest Research Institute
San Antonio, TX
 
thaby at swri.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:42:43 -0500
From: "Don Leone"<DLeone at gw.stlnet.com>
Subject: party pig thanks





fellow brewskis: thanks for all the advice on party pigs.  after hearing
many opinions, it has helped me come to a decision.  thanks once again.
 -don leone



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 10:52:43 CST
From: "Scott Braker-Abene" <sbraker-abene at comark.com>
Subject: Re: brewing music....

     >I wonder if anyone out there has any thoughts on the music they 
     >prefer to listen to while brewing. Our kitchen could be filled with 
     >anything from Type O Negative to King's X to Bach to Korn to SR 
     >Vaughn to old Genesis to Orb to Coltrane to Patti Smith to 
     >Replacements to Them Jazzbeards. Eclectic is the order of the day. 
     >Maybe you should listen to different music depending on what type of 
     >brew you are working on......
     >Brew On..
     >Dean
     
     Hey all, 
     
     I have to say that King's X and Coltrane are two of the best to listen 
     to while brewing. I also enjoy Alice in Chains, Bartok, Penderecki, 
     Sound Garden, and Mr. Bungle.
     
     But for me ZAPPA's "Best Band You Never Heard" and "Make a Jazz Noise 
     Here" are the best for brewing. 
     
     On another note... I owned a Pit-Bull for 11 years and he hated 
     homebrew. He has since passed on and I now have a Sheltie named ZACK. 
     This dog is the biggest brew hound I have ever seen and no beer is 
     safe when he is around. I wonder if Betty Ford accepts pets for rehab 
     because Zack is well on his way.
     
     C'Ya
     
     -Scott
     
     %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
     %                  Scott Abene             %
     %          http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat    %
     %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:14:08 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Acid Brews

Brewsters:

Sandy C. ( I once knew a Sandy Beach - no kidding) says that getting an
acid brew is difficult using L. Acidolphus.  I have seen this as a
recommended agent.  L. A. is great for yoghurt for people who believe they
have stomach problems,  but it is incorrect for what you are trying to do. 
Best way is to not attempt to sour the whole beer since it may not be the
degree of sourness you desire (likely) and may continue to sour in the
bottles.  If you are unlucky enough to get some L. Diastaticus  from grain
or oak chips it will produce fizz bombs over time as it chews up all the
carbohydrates the yeast couldn't reduce.

Best way is to produce a concentrated lactic acid solution by fermentation,
sterilize it and add it to the beer as you wish.  Guiness is reputed to add
about 3% of sour beer to their Stout. ( so about a pint of sour beer to a 5
gallon carboy)  Try a similar beer to what you are trying to sour, add
lactic acid to get what you want as an idea of how sour you want it.  Use
these figures for lactic in the absence of a titration: 0.1N Lactic Acid is
the approximate amount in a sour beer (also 0.1M in the case of Lactic). 
Most purchased Lactic Acid is 88% by weight.  Need help with the calcs? Use
my e-mail.

Here's how I do it:
 I do a 155F quick mash ( 30 minutes) to negative iodine of about a cup of
milled pale ale malt in 2 cups of water, don't boil,  cool to 100-110F add
1 tlb whole malt. Put into a Thermos(R) (silvered vacuum flask) lid on, but
loose and keep in my electric oven overnight with the light on ( about
85-90F). Next day it titrates out at 0.1N lactic acid. NOW. Strain off the
grain. ( I have used a kitchen strainer lined with a paper towel or a
coffee filter).  Sterilize this by bringing to a brief boil, covered and
hold above 200F without boiling for 10 minutes.  This can now be safely
added to your beer after it has fermented in the proper dosage  or use a
similar beer you have already bottled to get to the taste you prefer. 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:50:24 -0500
From: Dennis Cabell <cabell at home.msen.com>
Subject: Yeast Viability from Germany

About a month ago my dad was in Germany.  One of his friends over there 
is a brew meister.  He brough me back some yeast from the brewery, and I 
need to know if it is still viable, and how to best use the yeast.

The yeast is in a mason jar and is 2.5 - 3 inches thick, with about 1.5 
inches of water on top that. teh water is a light golden color.  My dad 
said it was distilled water.  I obtained the yeast on Feb 16, and it has 
been in my refreigerator since (Unfortunatly I was not able to brew 
right away).  I am not sure of how it was handled before I got the 
yeast.  I know my dad transported it in his suitcase.

These are the specific questions I have, there may be other things I 
need to know that I did not think to ask, so please feel free to 
comment.

1) Is the yeast still any good?  How long will it last?

2) Are there any tests I should do on the yeast before using it?

3) Can I make a slant straight from this slurry, or should I make 35 ml 
micro starter before culturing the slant? 

4) After preserving the yeast in a slant, I would like to use the whole 
thing in a batch.  Should I make a starter first?  It seems that I have 
plenty of yeast, but do I need the starter to "wake up" the yeast?  How 
big should the starter be?

5) This yeast is what the brewery uses for thier Helles.  Since it is a 
lager, should my starter or culture be kept at 50 degrees? Or, should 
these be done at room temp so they progress faster?

TIA for your help.  Private E-mail is fine, but post if you think others 
would be interested in your comments.
- -- 
Dennis Cabell
Sterling Height, MI
cabell at home.msen.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:39:59 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Cold Break Removal => fusels, NOT!


Rob Reed wrote in HDB 2365 ...
 ...

> There are some textbook reasons, e.g., (fusel alcohol formation, M&B
>Science, p.599) to remove cold break, but I think the most important
>issue is can you detect an incremental improvement for this
>incremental increase in labor, process complexity.

I agree totally with Rob, that your tongue (and eyes and nose) should be
your guide in this matter, and he makes many other good points, but a
better reading of M&BS starting back at pp592 would show that cold break
does not relate to fusel alcohols in this manner.  It also helps to
read:

 G.Fix - Principles of Brewing Science
 D.Gee&W.F.Ramirez - 'Flavour Model for Beer Fermentation' (JIB
    v160,1994)
 T.Arayapaa - (JIB v67, 1961)
 Also scan the Feb 1995 HBD for the fatty acid discussion with
    C.Scandrett & T.Aquilla

Cold break can consist of up to 50% fatty acids and cloudy wort may
contain 5 to 40 times the amount of fatty acids of clear wort [G.Fix
PoBS]!  These fatty acids are the active factor of cold break in yeast
fermentation and their affect on beer flavor.

Fusel Alcohols can come about by three methods: (roughly in order of
importance)

1/ Ehrlich mechanism. Amino acids from wort are taken into the yeast
cells and transaminated, this means the ammonia NH3 bit is removed and
replaced with an oxygen molecule, the result is an oxoacid. and some
of the oxoacids are decarboxylated and enzymatically reduced to fusel
alcohols.  Most are utilized to make new amino acids. This mechanism
is dependent on the amino acid uptake rate. And the buildup of the
oxoacid pool would depend on a limitation to growth other than amino
acids - for example adaquate amino acid levels and perhaps a deficit
of sterols, fatty acids or carbs.

2/ The synthetic pathway.  Carbo/Sugar metabolism provides precursors
to the oxoacids as minor metabolic products, such as oxoglutarate and
oxoacetate, and the oxoacids are again decarboxylated and
enzymatically reduced to fusel alcohols.  This mechanism is favored by
yeast growth at low amino acid concentrations (low FAN brewing, like
extract+sugar recipes). It's unlikely that this occurs in 'normal' all
grain brewing.

3/ The fusel alcohol n-propanol has a special pathway related to the
catabolism of odd-chain fatty acids resulting in propionyl-CoA which
reduces to n-propanol.  Odd chain fatty acids are rare (vitually
non-extant) in malt, and this pathway is probably only involved in
catabolising fatty acids in order to synthesize other fatty acids. A
distant 3rd for this pathway.

Syntheses 1/ and 2/ above are dependent on a pool of oxoacids which
aren't being used up to synthesize proteins for the yeast.  They also
require yeast enzymes to decarboxylate the oxoacids, and so are
dependent on yeast variety.

The presence of the long-chain fatty acids from cold trub does not
affect 2/ and may prevents 1/ (indirectly). 3/ probably doesn't matter
in normal wort.

There may be other valid reasons for removing cold trub .... later,
Steve Alexander


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:46:19 -0800 (PST)
From: ad339 at freenet.unbc.edu (Edwin Thompson)
Subject: storing hops



Thanks for all those who responded to my query about storing fresh hops.  
The consensus seems to be that as hop oils are very volitile the hops 
themselves need to be store in a vacume, or a least oxygen free 
enivironment.  This is why hops are shipped in nitrogen free containers.



- --
Edwin K. Thompson
ad339 at Freenet.unbc.edu        "If one thing abounds it's misinformation"
Prince George. B.C.

Return to table of contents


Date:         Mon, 10 Mar 97 13:14:44 CST
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Sparging Disaster! Brewer considering Winemaking!

Bad brewing weekend.  Sparge stuck.

  I finally got a weekend to brew  for the first time in a couple months,
so I planned on doing a partial mash pale ale, adding a bit of munich malt
and flaked maize for variety.  Decided to increase extraction by cranking
down on my Corona so I could barely take three dimes out of the plates.
Milled the grain and it was pretty fine, but it looked reasonable to me.

  The grain bill was about 9 lbs, 1 lb of flaked maize.  I put it in my
kettle outfitted with an easymasher and mashed at 120F   for 30 min and
then 150F for 2 1/2 hours, assuring complete conversion. 170 mashout.

   When I opened the EM spigot, I got about an ounce out and then nothing.
Blew on the tube.  Nothing.   Sucked on the tube.  Nothing.  Did it again
multiple times.  Nothing.   Stirred the mash and let it sit for 15 min.
nothing.  Tranferred the whole damn mash  to another vessel to clean out
the EM.  Nothing.    Blew, sucked stirred repeatedly for another hour or so.

  Finally, I gave up.  Even if I did unstick this thing, I couldnt find time
enough to finish brewing.  So I had to dump it.  Sniff.  A half day of brewing
and nothing to show for it.

  So -   when this happens next time (assuming I will actually decide not to
sell my entire brewing equipment), what do I do?  Any  tricks to unstick a
stuck mash?

  And, why did this thing stick?  The only difference between this and my
other batches was the additon of flaked maize and a finer crush.  I guess
the crush probably did it, right?

 -Paul
PJS at uic.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:41:48 -0500 (EST)
From: BIGGINS at MURRAY.FORDHAM.EDU
Subject: WY 1056 question...

I am making an IPA w/ 1056.  I started last week...primary fermention lasted
approx. 5 days & I transferred to secondary.  It's been in the secondary for
nearly a week now and the damn thing keeps going--about 2 burps/minute.
As this is my forst time w/ 1056, is this normal?  Shall I just let it keep
going and going (stupid question, I know).  My carboys make gravity readings
difficult, so I just don't bother.  Note: I took forever to start my yeast
as well...about two days in wort.  Private email OK.

John Biggins
Chemist Extraordinaire
Elmsford, NY

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:16:38 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes USAET(UTC -05:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
Subject: Liquid Bread: GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!


Greetings all!                                                                  

I must say a public thank you to the great folks at liquid bread customer       
service.  One of my Carbonator caps (an old one, the origonal round ones)       
cracked recently, and after calling liquid bread was told to mail it in         
for a replacement, they sent out a new one within a couple days, and threw      
in a spare for my inconvenience!  If only Ford Motor Co worked like that        
(heh heh heh!)                                                                  

Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr                                                         
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen     \\\|///                          
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o                     
rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com                         (_)                            


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:39:57 -0500
From: bkitt at vortex.attmail.com (bkitt)
Subject: brewing related home repairs

I used my new 10 gallon Polar Ware brew pot this weekend for the first 
time.  It is nice to finally do a full wort boil.  Unfortunately, by stradling 
the pot across two gas burners in the kitchen, I scorched the kitchen 
counter-top (formica laminate) in the process (looks like it is time for a 
Cajun Cooker).  Has any one else done this (and willing to admit it)?  And 
furthermore, have you been able to repair the damage, and how?

TIA

Bill, bkitt at vortex.attmail.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:52:03 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: sour mash. lactic, thermophillic bacteria


Mark Bayer writes ...

>dave bradley [...] wrote, regarding my sour mash submission:
>
>>From my recollection, it is not a lactobacillus strain which
>>proliferates in a warm mash (105F); rather a few pediococcus strains
>>commonly found on grains grow at 105F, particularly under anaerobic
>>conditions, to produce acetic acid and not lactic acid.  Some have
>>claimed there to be a difference in taste in soured mashes depending
>>on the use of a pediococcus or lactobacillus.
>
>just to clarify my source on this, it's greg noonan.  he could be
>wrong.  i can't recall for sure reading about lactobacillus d. being
>used in this fashion from any other author.

I wrote a longish note regarding Jim Booths original question on
Lactobacilli and sourmashing.  (BTW beta-amylase does denature
significantly upon freezing!) Unfortunately it was bounced while I was
out of town and so I'll pass on the 'Readers Digest' version:

There are two major classes of lactobacteria, homofermentative that
produce mostly lactic acid, and heterofermentative that produce
lactic, acetic acids, ethanol, CO2 and other byproducts.  For most
styles requiring only lactic, a homofermentative lactic acid bacteria
like Lactobacillus Delbrueckii would fit the bill.  Fortunately most
(nearly all) of the thermophilic(heat loving) lactobacilli are
homofermentative.

Unfortunately some of the thermophilic lactobacteria have naughty
habits.  Some produced slime strings, haze, diacetyl and other
off-flavored products.  Pure lactic cultures are desirable and
available.  Also note that pediococcus shares almost all properties
with lactobacillus - so a pediococcus infection becomes probable.
Aerobic bacteria, such as acetic acid bacteria are a potential
problem.  (BTW G.Fix in PoBS claims most pediococcus are
heterofermentative, every other source I've checked lists pediococcus
as homofermentative, maybe another case for AlK's errata web site).

Thermophilic Homofermentative LactoBacteria(THL) use simple sugars as an
energy source and have a requirement for amino acids at least as great
as yeast.  THL are facultative anaerobes, requiring little oxygen and in
fact thriving in a CO2 atmosphere.  THL may not be able to start a
growth cycle in a medium with a pH below 5.0, tho they quickly drop the
pH of their own environmment to pH levels well below this.  THL prefers
a temperature rang of 113F to 131F.  They can survive temps as high as
158F and will cease to grow at 60F.  Some THLs are hops sensitive, some
are not.

My advice on creating a separate sour mash ...
In order to minimize DMSO (creamed corn aroma) in the acid beer choose
a malt with a low SMM level like pale ale malts.  Create a normal,
highly fermentable wort so as not to leave residual dextrins after
lactofermentation.  Normal mashout and sparge procedures should be
followed. Boil wort extensively (like 120min) in order to minimize
DMSO.  No hops addition should be made.  Separate wort from break
material.  Cool the wort to the lactofermentation range
(113F-131F/45C-55C) and maintain this temperature throughout
fermentation.  Raise wort pH to 5.0 to 5.5 if necessary before
pitching, no lower.  Do not aerate the wort.  Pitch the bacteria -
pure cultures are available from Yeast Culture Kit Company, Aeonbrau
and others (no affiliation) or pitch some malt of grain if you feel
lucky.  Cover the wort with CO2 and seal with a fermentation lock.
Don't expect your fermentation lock to bubble - THL will not produce
CO2 in any substantial quantity.  If you suspect an infection, heating
the lactobrew to 150F and allowing it to cool back to the THL range
may improve the situation without killing all the THL.  Taste the
result for off flavors before using.

Check out Dr.Nummers article in BT last year on lacto fermentations.

*** NB - a Berlinerweiss is classically made by allowing an extended
cool temperature lactofermentation in the bottle.  This is unlikely to
work in normal HB practice, since thermophilic lactobacteria can't
metabolize at these low temperatures.  Also many yeast varieties emit
an undetermined material into beer which is toxic to lactobacteria so
the yeast variety must be carefully chosen [M&BS].

Steve Alexander

Return to table of contents


Date:     Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:47 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  jan arnold primus

collective homebrew conscience:

i recently wrote that gambrinus was the patron saint of brewing.  this may 
be not correct.  but gambrinus was a brewing dude, or something.  i think.

i say this because i read #2369 and everybody is talking about saint arnold.

oops.

brew hard (anyway)

mark bayer

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:07:10 -0600
From: Marty Tippin <mtippin at swbell.net>
Subject: Digging Rhizomes

Just wondering whether this is the appropriate time of the year to dig up
rhizomes from my hop plants - a fellow brewer is concerned that doing it
now will disturb the hill and affect growth this year; he would prefer to
dig them up in the fall but doesn't know whether it makes a difference or
not when you do the digging.  I'm guessing that the rhizomes you'll be able
to buy in a few weeks are being dug up right now (as opposed to being
stored all winter long) so my gut feeling is that now is the right time.
Anyone know for sure?

 -Marty
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Tippin          | Tippin's Law #18:  A watched pot never
mtippin at swbell.net    | boils, but an unwatched pot always boils
martyt at geoaccess.com  | over.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty's Homebrew Gadgets: http://alpha.rollanet.org/users/mtippin
- --------------------------------------------------------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:54:47 -0400
From: Christopher Tkach <tkach at tiac.net>
Subject: Results of Asst. Brewer Questions

Ok, ok I know its a long time coming, but here are the results of the
questions that I posed to the collective about a month ago concerning a
career in brewing.  I have to preface this by saying that there are a
lot of
people out there who aren't very hoppy with their current job as I
received
numerous responses asking for the results, but there IS one person who
is...
(you know who you are - thanks for the info) (if you can't tell there
was
only one brave soul who took the time to respond to my questions).

On to the result...

1) As far as salary/pay...your not going to get rich...we're looking at
5 to 6 bucks/hr as an assistant brewer (if your lucky).  Salary will
increase
as you put your time in.

2) Training anyone? ....Don't really need it if you can find someone to
take
you under their wing and teach you the trade (starting at the bottom of
course!)

3) finding a job in the field...keep your eyes open, spend some time at
your
local brewpub/micro and talk, talk, talk...ask to help out..do whatever
to get
your foot in the door.

According to the response a lot of the work you start doing is grunt
work, such
as scooping out spent grain, washing kegs, opening and pouring 50lb bags
of
grain, etc..back breaking work.  But with time comes rewards.

Hope everyone finds this interesting..I wish I had more responses, but
what can
you do!

 - Chris
Newmarket, NH


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:06:34 -0500 (EST)
From: DGofus at aol.com
Subject: Re: Chocolate Stout

I want to make a stout with chocolate overtones. I have read of brewers
throwing in a chocalate bar or two to get this flavor, is this possible. i
don't want a chocolate milkshake, but  I want to be able to taste the
chocolate overtones. any suggestions, or recipes?

* Thanks to all responses up front, very appreciated!!!*

Bob Fesmire
Dgofus at aol.com
Pottstown, PA

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:29:09 -0500
From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net>
Subject: 1997 Moon Madness Results

The following are the results of the Sixth Annual Moon Madness 
Homebrew Competition held on March 8, 1997. We had 252 entries and
wish to thank the 60+ judges, stewards, and volunteers who helped make
this the biggest Moon Madness Competition ever.
	Please Note that some categories were collapsed due to 
insufficient entries. There were 17 categories judged. 

Barley Wines & Strong Ales:
1.	Dave & Yvonne Brownlee, Phoenixville, PA
2.	John Rice, Pittsboro, NC
3.	Alan Folsom, Warrington, PA

Belgian & French Ale and Belgian Lambic:
1.	Dan Morris, Elverson, PA
2.	Dave Drummer, New Tripoli, PA
3.	Eric Kendra, Hackettstown, NJ

Mild & Brown Ale:
1.	Rich Sulinski, Coatesville, PA
2.	Alan Folsom, Warrington, PA
3.	Rich Rosowski, Horsham, PA

English Style Pale Ale:
1.	Kieth Houck, Chapel Hill, NC
2.	Tom Mcnamara/Heath VanVarick, Reading, PA
3.	David Skok, Bensalem, PA

American Style Ale:
1.	Marc Anderson, Kennet Square, PA
2.	Matt Trout, Lancaster, PA
3.	Matt Trout, Lancaster, PA

English Bitter & Scottish Ale:
1.	Chuck Hanning, Malvern, PA
2.	Ted Johnston, Phoenixville, PA
3.	Lance Patterson, Trappe, PA

Porter:
1.	Jeff Weeber, West Reading, PA
2.	Bob Grossman, Haddonfield, NJ
3.	Steve Stutman, Narbeth, PA

Stout:
1.	Lisa Hudock, West Chester, PA
2.	Alan Folsom, Warrington, PA
3.	Joe Uknalis, Jenkintown, PA

Bock:
1.	Pat Bannon, Jeffersonville, PA
2.	David Houseman, Chester Spring, PA
3.	David Houseman, Chester Spring, PA

German Dark Lager & California Common:
1.	Nate Brese, Lansdale, PA
2.	Terry Dinnie, Allentown, PA
3.	Brent Talbot, Waldorf, MD

German Light Lager, American Lager, & Pilsner
1.	Ted Johnston, Phoenixville, PA
2.	Curt Speaker, Boalsburg, PA
3.	Pat Bannon, Jeffersonville, PA

German Style Ale
1.	Gordon Griffiths, Reading, PA
2.	Robert Privette, Lansdale, PA
3.	Mark Rowland, Skippack, PA

German Style Wheat Beer:
1.	Ronald Babcock, Denver, CO
2.	Harold Dowda, Columbia, SC
3.	David Houseman, Chester Springs, PA

Specialty & Smoke Beer
1.	Chuck Hanning, Malvern, PA
2.	John Jacobs, Vineland, NJ
3.	Brian Beckmann, Andover, NJ

Fruit & Vegetable Beer:
1.	Jay Behler, Paoli, PA
2.	Ralph Zwirmann, Roslyn, PA
3.	Clifford Rones/Brian Litten, Voorhees, NJ

Herb & Spice Beer:
1.	Paul LeFebvre, Haverford, PA
2.	David Houseman, Chester Springs, PA
3.	Bob Grossman, Haddonfield, NJ

Mead & Cider:
1.	Terrie Dinnie, Allentown, PA
2.	Suzette Smith, Madison, NJ
3.	Nate Brese, Lansdale, PA

Best of Show:	Kieth Houck, Chapel Hill, NC with an IPA
Brewer's Choice:	Lisa Hudock, West Chester, PA
	Lisa will assist Pretzel City Brewing Co. Head Brewer 
Scott Baver in producing her Imperial Stout for distribution by PCBC.
Brewing is tentatively scheduled for July, 1997, with a fall release.
	Congratulations to all winners!
- -- 
"If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a
conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind."  - Winston
Churchill


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:02:48 EST
From: "Barry Wertheimer" <wertheim at libra.law.utk.edu>
Subject: Dropping Whitbread Yeast

Greetings,

Has anyone practiced dropping (the kind where you DO aerate) with the 
Whitbread yeast strain (1098)?  The only anecdotal evidence I seem to recall
postings about involved the highly flocculent London ESB yeast (1968).

Barry 
Knoxville, TN

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:13:50 -0800
From: James Moncsko <jimsbrew at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Red Ale Color

I need help QUICK! I'm planning to brew a 10 gallon batch of Red Ale this 
coming weekend (the 15th) and although I have all the other ingredients 
lined up, I dont know how much Roasted malt to add to get that 'Red' 
color. The ingredients (fermentables) so far go like this: 9 # pale malt, 
6.6 # M&F pale syrup and 2 # crystal 10L. I'd do a 10 gal all grain but 
my mash tun aint big enough, hence the syrup. Please help, private email 
is fine...Jimsbrew at Bellsouth.net

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:21:42 -0800
From: James Moncsko <jimsbrew at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dallas/Ft. Worth Brew Pubs

In early April my wife & I will be in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Tx. area 
(Nascar's Texas 500) and will have time to visit some local Brew Pubs 
and Micros. Can some of you in that area please give us info on what the 
area has to offer? Is it possible to visit Celis for tours? Private email 
is fine.THANKS! 

Jimsbrew at Bellsouth.net

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:38:57 -0600
From: Marty Tippin <mtippin at swbell.net>
Subject: CAL Controls temp. controller

I managed to procure an industrial temperature controller but need some
help figuring out whether it will work for my needs as a refrigerator
controller.

Some specifics:
"CAL Controls Series 9000 Microprocessor based temperature controller"
Manufactured by CAL Controls, Inc. Chicago, IL

A plate on the side says the following: (my guess as to meaning is in
parentheses)
911.1F      (a setpoint temperature?)
WD5181-068  (a model number)
115V  50-60 Hz (easy enough)
Relay   5A (current ratings for the two relays)
Relay   3A  

The front panel has a 4-digit LCD with 4 buttons below it; I can figure out
how to set and read the temperature (I've got a thermocouple that seems to
be pretty accurate).  And I can hear it clicking the relay on and off as
the setpoint is changed.

The problems:  It appears to have a differential of about 26 degrees - if
the temperature reads about 60 degrees F, the relay doesn't kick on until
the setpoint is around 73F and doesn't turn off until it's down around 48.
This is obviously unacceptable for fridge control but I'll bet there's a
way to change it.

There's a smaller button that doesn't stick out as far as the rest, and if
I push it, the LCD changes to a bunch of numbers with a decimal point or
two scattered among them; pressing the up/down buttons changes these
numbers but I haven't a clue what they do.

If any of you industrial control gurus has specifics on this controller,
I'd appreciate anything you can send my way.  I have this feeling that the
controller is designed for a much higher temperature range than I plan to
use so it may not work well for my purpose.  But it was free and is fun to
play with in any case...

Thanks

 -Marty (in the thriving metropolis of Lee's Summit, MO)
 mtippin at swbell.net

Return to table of contents