HOMEBREW Digest #2374 Fri 14 March 1997
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Re: sour mashes and beer.... (Jim Cave)
Decotion problems (Cory Chadwell)
Buckwheat beer? (Richard R Gontarek)
.5 micron filters (Andrew Lynch)
Buckwheat beer? (Richard R Gontarek)
Beestons/Just Hops (Steve Alexander)
Dropping (korz)
Oak chips (korz)
Decocting Pale Ale Malt - how to create headless, bodyless beer (Steve Alexander)
errata (korz)
Pubs in UK (Rick Gontarek)
Thermoelectric coolers -- NOT! (Louis Bonham)
HBD Dist List Use (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
Sniping... (pbabcock.ford)
decoction at mashout (Bob McCowan)
Big Apple Homebrew Competition/Call for judges (MaltyDog)
Woodruff Syrup Recipe (MaltyDog)
Re: Sparge/Mash adn Mash/Kettle interfaces... (Oliver Weatherbee)
orphan hops (mark evans)
Peristaltic Pumps ("Mike Szwaya")
glatt mill gears (HOUCK KEITH A)
Ale Decoction ("Tom Galley")
re: Kegging - foamy beer ("Greg Pickles")
Web Browser Search Engine ("Mark Prior")
IBU Changes Relative to Batch Volume ("Mark Prior")
Re: Liquid Transfer using Peristaltic Pumps (Dion Hollenbeck)
Specific Gravity During the Sparge ("Mark Prior")
Re: decoction at mashout (Jeff Renner)
SIPHONING (Chris McAtee)
FW: Hop Rhizomes (Steven Lichtenberg)
Decoction Mashing (TEX28)
decoction mash out (BAYEROSPACE)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 9:08:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: Re: sour mashes and beer....
The sour mash rears it's ugly head again!! The sour mash has been
carried on in modern times in Germany to achieve mash pHs that are ideal for
the water and malt types used. It's a brewing chemistry--reinheitsgebot thing.
You must remember, only a small portion of the mash is soured and it is
carefully controlled. Now-a-days, they have malted barely that is already
soured for the process. The sour mash technique was introduced into the
homebrewing community by Noonan for brewing lager beers. Charlie P. introduced
it as a way of producing sour beers--but the flavour profile is all wrong.
I think homebrewers have been mislead by the advocates of this process.
FOR GOODNES SAKES, GIVE IT UP!!!! Enteric bacteria are involved, as
well as lactic ones, and they add sewer like flavours to your beer. There are
really no good reasons for homebrewers to do sour mashes, unless you have to
make a pilsner with higher pH water and have some fanatical desire to adhere
to the reinheitsgebot! Otherwise, why not add lactic acid??
If you want to produce a sour wit either add small amounts of lactic
acid bacteria at bottling, and refrigerate after souring, or add controlled
amounts of lactic acid. If you want to make a p-lambic, you need to follow
other procedures, best discussed by others than myself.
There is no good reason for a homebrewer to do sour mashes.
Jim Cave
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:04:57 -0600
From: cory at okway.okstate.edu (Cory Chadwell)
Subject: Decotion problems
Fellow brewsters,
Help my aching decoction!
I have had a couple of practical problems with my decoctions that I
need a little help on. First I'm having problems maintaining a
constant temp in my mash tun (converted keg), I've tried some
makeshift insulation an a lid but with little effect. You should know
that I heat the keg with a Cajun cooker to mash in temp then I move
the cooker to a converted 1/4 bbl keg to boil my decoction steps so
there is no direct heat to the tun after the initial mash in temp is
achieved. During any rest in the tun the temp really drops like 10
degrees or more so it's a real problem. Secondly and I suspect this
is because of the temp problems, my brews are thinner than I expect
from any given grain bill and they really never have good head
retention (even with a significant amount of wheat added to the bill
specifically for retention).
Any ideas, suggestions and or pagan incantation would be welcome at
this point.
THX, Cory
BTW: After the darkness of the HBD going down I been lurking the new
digest for a couple months and I must say bravo indeed for the new
digest, it's occupants and the new janitor. Job well done to all the
digest is quickly regaining it's strength as the most valuable
resource to all of us H-brewer's.
Cory Chadwell
Black Cat White Stripe Homebrew,
"It might seem like a skunk but I swear it not!"
Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Mar 97 13:19:41 EDT
From: Richard R Gontarek
Subject: Buckwheat beer?
Hi Everyone,
Last night I was watching a show on the Food TV Channel called "Taste" with
David Rosengarten. He did a special episode on buckwheat, highlighting
buckwheat pancakes, blini, kasha, and buckwheat pasta. Then it dawned on
me,"Why not use buckwheat in beer?". I know that you can find whole buckwheat
kernels in some stores. Has anyone out there ever used buckwheat in beer? I
would probably cook the hell out of it to gelatinize it first, then mash in
with pale malt (probably no more than two lbs of buckwheat total). Any
suggestions are welcome.
I'll let you know how my "Buckwheat Porter" turns out (hopefully it will turn
out "O-Tay!!").
Later,
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of The Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA
gontarek at voicenet.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 10:50:14 PST
From: Andrew Lynch <lynch at Synopsys.COM>
Subject: .5 micron filters
I have decided that the .5 micron filter is too small. Mine clogged
up after one 10 gallon batch, and no amount of soaking in bleach, tsp,
iodophor, backflushing, etc helped. I even tried a 5 micron prefilter
to try to extend the life of the .5 micron unit. I now use filters
from home depot at $6.95 for 2 (1 micron, I think). They don't get
the beer quite as bright as the .5 micron filter did, but they last
much longer and are darn cheap.
-Drew
Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Mar 97 14:18:42 EDT
From: Richard R Gontarek
Subject: Buckwheat beer?
Hi Everyone,
Last night I was watching a show on the Food TV Channel called "Taste" with
David Rosengarten. He did a special episode on buckwheat, highlighting
buckwheat pancakes, blini, kasha, and buckwheat pasta. Then it dawned on
me,"Why not use buckwheat in beer?". I know that you can find whole buckwheat
kernels in some stores. Has anyone out there ever used buckwheat in beer? I
would probably cook the hell out of it to gelatinize it first, then mash in
with pale malt (probably no more than two lbs of buckwheat total). Any
suggestions are welcome.
I'll let you know how my "Buckwheat Porter" turns out (hopefully it will turn
out "O-Tay!!").
Later,
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of The Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA
gontarek at voicenet.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:46:23 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Beestons/Just Hops
A quick note - Someone suggested last year on HBD that Beestons malts
are badly undermodified. I've made two ales with Beestons pale ale
malt, maris otter var and I get entirely comparable results to
Munton&Fison malts. Maybe a little darker in color than M&F and a bit
toastier, with a great malt flavor.
A few weeks ago someone summarized a request for hops sources pointing
to Hop Tech. I've been happy with Just Hops (under new ownership at
719-528-5920). The last time I checked Just Jops had 44 hop
varieties/locations and HopTech had about 18. Just Hops are
consistantly less expensive as well. Where else can you get French
strisselspalt ?
YMMV, no affilations with the above ...
Steve Alexander
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:49:09 -0600 (CST)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Dropping
Ray writes (quoting Graham):
>> Dropping is done as soon as the fermentation really
>>takes a hold (the yeast crust start forming). At this stage there is a lot
>>of active yeast in suspension. What we are trying to do is transfer the
>>wort off any undesirable material (trub, dead yeast etc.)
>By the time that the yeast is actively fermenting it is a little late to
>pull it
>off the trub. If it is a good strong fermentation, it is going to be kicking
>up all that stuff at the bottom of your fermenter. You would be better off
>transferring right at the end of the yeast's aerobic stage, what we call the
>lag period, before the krausen.
I think that trub is less a point than the dirty head (that brown crust
that floats on top of the kraeusen). You need to wait for that brown scum
to form to make dropping worth the effort. When you make the transfer,
it is more important to avoid transfering the brown scum than the trub
(in my opinion). Note also, that there's quite a bit of trub *IN* the
kraeusen also, so this too is part of the reason for dropping (there is
a commercial piece of brewing equipment called a floatation tank, which
uses a gas (often air) to carry the trub up to the top of the wort after
which they drain the wort out from under the trub head). Note that this
is also what you are trying to get rid of when you are using the blowoff
method. I, personally, fell that all the warnings about this dirty head
ruining your beer are overblown. Highly-skilled BJCP judges have compared
blowoff to non-blowoff beer and none noted any difference in harshness...
the only noticeable difference was in the level of bitterness and tests
at the Siebel Institute of Technology on those beers proved that only
the bitterness changed significantly. This was all written up in my
Brewing Techniques article published in the middle of 1996.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:49:41 -0600 (CST)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Oak chips
Sandy writes:
>Ted, brewing belgian styles in NYC says he gets good results
>from either tossing in grain or unsanitized oak chips.
Are these oak chips from a previous batch? If they are just garden
variety oak chips, I'm surprised. I didn't know that lactobacillus
was naturally found in oak chips. I know that various bacteria and
yeasts (especially Brettanomyces) will "burrow" into the pores of
wooden casks, but it's news to me that the lactobacillus was there
to begin with. Comments?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:58:55 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Decocting Pale Ale Malt - how to create headless, bodyless beer
My friend Charles Burns writes about decocting and esp pale ale malts.
His results were without head or body ...
>How are we supposed to know which of those grains to use for decocting an
>Oktoberfest or Bock or any other lager? What really throws me if this is
>true (wrong malt) is why the Marzen recipe of almost all Vienna malt also
>turned out poorly (other than temp control).
Head is largely a function of the proteins present, body is apparently
dependent on proteins and dextrins. I suspect that your lack of head
and body have a lot more to do with your admitted poor temperature
control than the malt per se. The temperature steps you choose for a
decoction shouldn't be any different than those you's choose for a
step mash. If you are decocting pale ale malt, skip the protein rest
and go straight from mash in to saccharification temps, then to
mashout. Even for lager malts I'd bump from 35C-40C to 60+C without
intermediate steps If you're getting haze try a rest in the 58-60C
range before more drastic steps..
I have decoction mashed pale ale malt (guess we're both bad to the
bone 'eh?) as an experiment before without any ill effects for the
beer. My english pale ale malt was almost nothing but husks after the
boil !! But the ale was quite nice.
I'm not aware of any currently available commercial malt is so
undermodified that it requires decoction, or even a long protein rest.
Generally continental european malts will be slightly less modified -
so deWolf-Cosyns, Ireks and Durst would be good choices for a
decoction (and great choices for a source of Vienna Munich malt).
See Jim Busch's 'All About Grain 101' at http://alpha.rollanet.org/
for notes about differences between US and continental malts.
Steve Alexander
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:01:40 -0600 (CST)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: errata
Steve writes:
> ...maybe another case for AlK's errata web site
Yes... well, soon... but I just wanted to make it clear that some books
(in my opinion) mostly need some points clarified (such as George Fix's
Principles or Pierre Rajotte's Belgian Ale) and my copy of Principles has
several words missing in the middle of the discussion of the Pasteur effect.
I don't know whether subsequent printings fixed the problem... although
my copy is well-worn, I'm not ready to retire it for a new copy just yet.
Other books need some very important warnings (such as the hop utilization
formulas in Garetz's Using Hops). Other books simply contain incredibly
blatant errors in them. One book that 1/3 of us probably have says that
oxygen dissolves more easily in hot wort than cold!
I've got plenty of stuff to put in that web site (although I need to finish
my current project before getting the website done), but when I run out,
I'm sure you'll all help me grow it. Incidentally, I plan to reference
all the corrections with pointers to other books, journals, etc. So if
you're thinking about sending me alleged errors, you had better back them
up with references to the contrary. This is not going to simply be a
flamefest page.
Al.
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:22:10 +0000
From: Rick Gontarek <gontarek at voicenet.com>
Subject: Pubs in UK
Hi everyone,
I am fortunate enought to be going on a business trip to the UK the
week of 22 March. Since this is my first visit, I would like to get
some input regarding great little pubs to visit. I will be staying two
nights in London, then a few in Cambridge, and then a few evenings at
one of my company's R&D facilities in Harlow. If anyone has any advice
on where to sample beer, I would greatly appreciate it. BTW, I have
heard of CAMRA's guide to real beer in the UK, but since time is
short, I won't have the chance to run out and get it. Any summaries
are welcome.
Also, any hints on yeast strains to bring back?
Thanks a ton,
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA
gontarek at voicenet.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 03:49:41 -0600
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: Thermoelectric coolers -- NOT!
Thomas Penn recently suggested the use of Peltier devices (a/k/a
thermoelectric coolers) to create a custom keg cooler. I had
the same brainstorm three years ago, and in fact played around
with fabricating a prototype. Despite the assistance of several
friends who are electrical engineers, we could not produce a unit
that would generate enough cooling power to keep a keg even
passably cool.
Why? Three big reasons:
1. Peltier devices are *incredibly* energy inefficient. It takes
several times the watts per btu of cooling power when compared to
conventional refrigeration, even at its theoretically best rating.
2. You will need humongous heat sinks (and forced air or liquid)
on both the hot and cold sides, and a pretty stout DC power supply.
3. Getting a good junction between the unit and the heat sink --
absolutely critical -- requires very careful machining.
You can't just slap a module against a scrounged heat sink (or the side
of a c-keg) with some thermal grease and get decent heat transfer.
About the time I was ready to pull out my hair on this project,
I read a comment by the editor of Nuts and Volts to the effect
that it was a total waste of time for most of us to try and
use peltier devices to cool anything larger than a CCD chip
for a lot of the reasons I had encountered.
Thus, if you're experimentally inclined, it's a interesting
project to play around with (if anyone wants them, I can make
you a great deal on some big heat sinks, DC power supplies,
and 2 cm x 2 cm peltier devices). And if you are able to
show us how to create a useful device that *actually* can keep
a C-keg cool for less than the cost of a second-hand fridge,
great -- I'd love to hear how you did it. Just be aware that
you're facing a lot of practical problems that have stymied many
experimenters.
My bottom line -- just scrounge up an old working fridge or
freezer. Not real fancy, but they really work. :)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:32:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com>
Subject: HBD Dist List Use
Yes, I know anyone can get the list of subscribers to HBD from the
mailer. Have any of you been receiving 2 or so unsolicited mailings
for services per week these past two weeks? I subscribe to only one
Email digest/mailer, the HBD, so I suspect others are receiving these
also. Email for lots of stuff, from xxx at public.com, yyy at econopromo.com,
etc... My point: can "we" (hi Pat!) easily shield the HBD list from
abusers? Just a thought.
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, (v.) Ltd.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:57:11 EST
From: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com
Subject: Sniping...
Pat Babcock Internet: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com
VO Body Launch Specialist- PN150/1 EAP
****>>>> PLEASE USE PF5 WHEN REPLYING TO THIS NOTE!!!! <<<<****
Subject: Sniping...
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
In HBD # 2373, George Fix says...
> Sure, but who is looking after the dismal signal to noise ratio
> on this forum.
Well, George, apparently not you.
The Home Brew Digest is and will remain an un-moderated, open forum. If
the S/N ratio is other than what you would desire, the SOLUTION is to
post some quality information. Unfortunately, firing off a snipe merely
contributes to the noise.
Best regards,
Patrick G. Babcock Vehicle Operations General Office
(313)33-73755 (V) 59-42328(F) PO Box 1586 RM E1550 Dbn MI 48121
Pager: 800-SKY-PAGE PIN: 544-9187
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 08:08:56 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com>
Subject: decoction at mashout
Boiling the grains at mashout is probably going to introduce unmodified
starch into your wort. One of the effects of boiling the grains is to
release more of the starch, that is why decoction mashes get higher
extraction rates. If you boil the grains at mashout you'll release more
starch after the enzymes needed to convert starches to sugars have been
denatured.
In a typical mashout decoction only liquid is boiled. If you want to boil
grains do it before your saccharification rest.
Bob
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob McCowan
ATG/Receiver-Protector voice: (508)-922-6000 x208
CPI BMD fax: (508)-922-8914
Beverly, MA 01915 e-mail: bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 08:33:32 -0500 (EST)
From: MaltyDog at aol.com
Subject: Big Apple Homebrew Competition/Call for judges
Author: George De Piro at WAN700
Date: 3/10/97 11:18 AM
Priority: Normal
TO: atib at ocmvm.cnyric.org at Internet
TO: homebrew at brew.oeonline.com at Internet
Subject: Big Apple Homebrew Competition/Call for judges
Hi all,
Announcing the
****BIG APPLE HOMEBREW COMPETITION****
sponsored by New York City's finest homebrew clubs:
The Malted Barley Appreciation Society and
The New York City Homebrewers Guild.
This year's contest will feature GARRETT OLIVER, head brewer of
Brooklyn Brewing Company as a special guest best-of-show judge!!!
The event will be held on April 12 at Milan, 1 East 36th Street in
Manhattan. Entries are due by April 10th. Call for a list of
drop-off/mail-in locations.
The Best of Show will prize is a day of brewing with Keith Symonds at
The Westchester Brewing Co., White Plains, NY.
Interested contestants should call Joanne Sagala at 212-583-4863 (day)
or Donna Bersani at 201-935-2067 (evening), or E-mail me at
George_De_Piro at Berlex.com.
We also need judges!!! Contact me (George) at the above E-mail
address or at (201)305-5074 if you are interested in judging.
Have fun!
George De Piro (President, Malted Barley Appreciation Society)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:13:09 -0500 (EST)
From: MaltyDog at aol.com
Subject: Woodruff Syrup Recipe
I just recieved some dried woodruff. Does anyone a out there have
a recipe for woodruff syrup--you know, the stuff they put in
Berliner Weisse?
Thanks,
Bill Coleman
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:20:47 -0500
From: oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee)
Subject: Re: Sparge/Mash adn Mash/Kettle interfaces...
Dave asked in part:
>As for the sparge water sprinkler... can regular tubing handle
>170F water without collapsing? Any ideas out there?
I was surprised to find that the vinyl tubing available at Home Depot
(as least the one here in DE) is rated to 50psi and 175*F AND food grade.
This is better than braided or polyetheline(sp?) tubing which are rated to
150*F at most. Also on the suitability table, vinyl tubing has "excellent
resistance" to beer specifically. So...thats what I use from my HLT to my
MLT and from my kettle to fermenter.
Note: I use an immersion chiller in the kettle. I DON'T recommend it for
running hot wort to a CF chiller, for that go ahead and spend 2 bucks
for a short length of silicon tubing.
________________________________________________________
Oliver Weatherbee oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu
First State Brewers
http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/
________________________________________________________
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 08:58:20 -0600 (CST)
From: mark.evans at midplains.net (mark evans)
Subject: orphan hops
General announcement: a couple years ago I had to relocate and I dispatched
some orphaned hop rhizomes to some caring brewers who pledged to care and
love them to fruition. I have since lost your e-mail addresses and wonder
if -- if you are all still HBD'ers -- you all have had any luck with my
babies. They were Saaz, Hallertauer, and mt hood. I lived in Dubuque
Iowa. private e-mail please.
thanks.Brewfully
mark
=========================================================
"I do a lot of different things.
I just can't remember what they are right now."
mark.evans at midplains.net
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:01:00 -0800
From: "Mike Szwaya" <mike.szwaya at coler-colantonio.com>
Subject: Peristaltic Pumps
I have a peristaltic pump right now that I picked up from Cole-Parmer
(1-800-323-4340). It's the Master-Flex pump system and works exactly as
people think from the different postings I've read: easy to sanitize (tubing
only), high temp./pressure capacity, no foaming. Overall I like it a lot.
It moves about 1 liter/minute, just about the perfect flow rate for
draining the mash-tun. It's a bit lengthy for simple transfer operations,
about 30 min. for a full carboy, but if you REALLY hate siphoning, it works
OK. I tried it a couple times and ended up hooking up the pump to start the
siphon and then detaching the tubing from the motor and letting gravity do
the work. A bit labor intensive if you ask me. There are higher capacity
pumps available, but as always, you pay for the added capacity.
There are three components to the pump: the motor (about $145), standard
pump head ($75), and silicon tubing ($55/25 ft.). I bought this off my old
company real cheap ($75 with the spare tubing) after they used it for a
project that I worked on. I don't think I would spend this money on a pump
when you can get a mag-driven, sealed, centrifugal pump and pump controller
from Grainger for about $120 or so with a higher flow rate (which I also
have when I moved up to 12 gal. batches). I kind of made it obsolete when I
got the new one, but for 5 gal. or so, it's the perfect size.
I think the Cole-Parmer model is extremely well built and the motor and pump
head should last a lifetime of brewing applications. The only thing that
needs (periodic) replacement is the tubing. BTW, the silicon tubing is
excellent. Aside from being a bit too flexible, it takes heat well,
sanitizes easily (discoloration from iodine and extended contact with
chlorine) and reportedly has excellent characteristics for food use.
Mike Szwaya
Watertown, MA
mike.szwaya at coler-colantonio.com
On the first morning of the first day, God created caffeine.
The rest was a cake walk.
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:36:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: HOUCK KEITH A <HOUCK_KEITH_A at Lilly.com>
Subject: glatt mill gears
My glatt mill gears stripped during grinding of 10 lb of raw wheat a few
weeks ago. Searching previous HBD turned up threads on successfully
replacing these gears with metal ones. However I have not been able to
contact anyone directly who has done this. Does anyone have a CAD drawing
that they have used to successfully produce new metal gears? Mine are
pretty mashed and would be difficult to use to model new ones. TIA.
Keith Houck (hak at lilly.com)
Chapel Hill, NC
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:01:54 -0600
From: "Tom Galley" <galley at sperry-sun.com>
Subject: Ale Decoction
Tim Wrote:
Tim said:
>I'm thinking of removing a third of the grains
with a strainer (after
>completion of mash) and transferring it to
another kettle, adding water to
>prevent scorching and boil for say 15 minutes
and then return to the
>mash tun for mashout. I guess I could pull
grains and sweet wort to boil
>since I am done with the enzymes anyway.
>Do any of you decocers (new word) think I will
enhance my beer with
>this procedure or just waste my time and propane
and ruin my beer. I'm
>more concerned about flavor enhancement then
reaching mashout
>temperature.
I too am experimenting with a single decoction
mash on my ales. Preliminary results are
promising, indeed. I am doing the decoction
after a 20 minute rest at 135F, and then return
it to raise the mash temperature to 156F. I have
noticed significantly cloudier beer at the end of
fermentation, but gelatin added a few days before
bottling seems to clear it pretty well. I don't
know how the flavor profile would be affected by
decocting at mashout rather than early on. Any
comments on the procedures I am using are
welcome. I will post a summary if appropriate
interest is shown.
Tom
galley at sperry-sun.com
tgalley at insync.net
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:38:29 -0800
From: "Greg Pickles" <gregp at wolfenet.com>
Subject: re: Kegging - foamy beer
Ian Smith asks about reducing the foam when he dispenses beer from his keg:
Sounds to me like one of two things is happening:
1. you are dispensing at too high a pressure.
2. your hose and tap are significantly warmer than the beer.
Here's my technique for setting the dispense pressure on my kegs: I relieve
nearly all of the internal pressure in the keg using the pressure relief. I
then try dispensing beer. If the flow is too slow, I apply 1 or 2 pounds of
presure from my CO2 tank. If that's not enough, I crank up the pressure a
bit more - but not much. It doesn't take much to dispense the beer and any
additional pressure will result in foam-producing turbulance when you fill
your glass or pitcher.
Often I will hit the keg with a short burst of CO2 to get a better dispense
rate and then turn off the gas until the rate falls off too much. This
seems to work better when I am pouring limited amounts. For a party where
the keg is getting hit pretty hard, I just leave the gas on. After I am
done, I represurize the keg to my carbonation pressure to maintain the
carbonation level.
Since you are using a picnic tap, you might try keeping the tap (and line,
of course) in the fridge along with the keg. Since there will be little
temp difference between the beer and the line/tap you should minimize the
temperature induced foaming. I don't bother with this most of the time
since I'll often take the keg out of the fridge so that I don't have to
keep opening the door. I expect and accept that the first glass I pour will
have quite a bit of foam but after I get the pressure set, additional pours
are fine.
Hope you get your foam under control,
Greg Pickles, Seattle, WA
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 16:01:32 UT
From: "Mark Prior" <priorm at msn.com>
Subject: Web Browser Search Engine
Can anyone help me with the HBD web search engine
(http://alpha.rollanet.org/cgi-bin/hbdindex/hbd)? I don't seem to be able to
search for multiple word phrases. Each time I try, I either get no matches or
a syntax error. I would like to search for phrases where words have to appear
next to each other. Examples include: "Courage Imperial Stout" and "digital
thermometer" and "orange blossom water", "specific gravity". Searching for
each of these words separately with an AND separator works but does not
necessarily return what I are looking for. For example, searching for
'orange' and 'blossom' and 'water' may not return any occurrences of 'orange
blossom water'. Does anyone know how to use the search engine to search for
phrases?
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 16:33:03 UT
From: "Mark Prior" <priorm at msn.com>
Subject: IBU Changes Relative to Batch Volume
I've heard that as batch size increases, the utilization percent of your hops
alpha acids also increases. Therefore, recipes cannot just be proportionally
scaled up. Is this true? If it is true, does anyone have any equations that
address the alpha acid utilization relative to boil volume? Where can I find
more information relative to this topic?
Thanks for the help.
Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Mar 1997 09:35:04 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at axel.vigra.com>
Subject: Re: Liquid Transfer using Peristaltic Pumps
The only thing wrong with peristaltic pumps is their cost. And in
your particular application, they can be too slow.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com
http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 16:10:12 UT
From: "Mark Prior" <priorm at msn.com>
Subject: Specific Gravity During the Sparge
I am interested in understanding the changes in specific gravity during the
sparge of an all grain beer. For example, if I end up collecting 12 gallons
of wort that has a gravity 1.050, what does the gravity profile look like
during collection. I know that the first running will have the highest
gravity and the last runnings will have the lowest but I want to be able to
predict what the gravity of the runnings at any one point during the sparge.
Is anyone aware of any equations that will do this? To simplify this, I am
going to assume that all of the gravity potential was collected from the
grains during the sparge.
Thanks for your help.
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:53:28 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: decoction at mashout
Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us> wrote:
>I'm thinking of removing a third of the grains with a strainer (after
>completion of mash) and transferring it to another kettle, adding water to
>prevent scorching and boil for say 15 minutes and then return to the
>mash tun for mashout. I guess I could pull grains and sweet wort to boil
>since I am done with the enzymes anyway.
Actually, at mashout, you remove the *liquid* portion and boil it, then
return it to the main mash, which, if everything is right, will settle in
at ~170F. That's because most of the enzymes are in the liquid. You don't
want to boil the grain at this point, because that would liberate more
starch that then could not be converted. The point of mashout is to
destroy enzymes and stabilize the wort. This is actually a very convenient
way for infusion mashers to mashout.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:51:51 -0700
From: mcatee at cadvision.com (Chris McAtee)
Subject: SIPHONING
I've been trying something I haven't seen in print before. For
siphoning I use one of those Mityvac hand vacuum pumps. They're the ones
for testing your car vacuum lines or bleeding brake lines. This one has a
small inline plastic cup so that your liquid doesn't get into and foul up
the hand pump. Usually one or two hand squeezes starts my siphon! Anybody
ever try one of these?
Chris McAtee
Brewing in a foot of new snow and 3 belowF in Calgary, Alberta
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:31:23 -0500
From: Steven Lichtenberg <slichten at mnsinc.com>
Subject: FW: Hop Rhizomes
This is a copy of a message I sent the other day. Thought you might be =
interested
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven Lichtenberg [SMTP:slichten at mnsinc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 1997 10:12 AM
To: 'mtippin at swbell.net'
Subject: Hop Rhizomes
Marty--
to answer your question (partially) about digging hop rhizomes, I =
thought you might be interested in my experiences.
I bought a new house last summer (July) and really wanted to move some =
of my hops plants (not unreasonable). On moving day I went out to the =
back yard and dug up many pieces of root from all the plants. I figured =
the tenants moving into the house (I still own that one too) wouldn't =
care about the hops (or some of the other plants we took) so I dug with =
wild abandon, taking many pieces of root all over 1 foot in length. I =
gave a lot of these roots away to friends and planted some of each in my =
back yard at the new house.
To my amazement, the plants I tuck in the ground here came up last fall =
(I know, off season and all) and this spring I am seeing the beginning =
of new plants already.
I probably won't get any flowers this year (I was getting 1-2 pounds off =
the plants in the old house after 6-7 years) but by next year or the =
year after, WATCH out.
My advise to you is to go ahead and dig the rhizomes now. It won't hurt =
anything. My experiences with hops is after the roots get established =
(1-2 years) there is nothing you can do to kill them and they will just =
come back stronger after any abuse. We have taken to calling the hops =
bines the kudzu of the garden (grows forever and will take over =
everything if given the chance)
Anyway good luck and keep brewing GREAT beer.
- --S
^
Steven Lichtenberg
Programmer at large
Lichtenberg Consulting
Gatihersburg, MD
slichten at mnsinc.com
BJCP - Recognized (2 more experience points for Certified!!)
Enjoy life. this is NOT a rehearsal!!!
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 13:08:49 -0500 (EST)
From: TEX28 at aol.com
Subject: Decoction Mashing
I have used a decoction schedule for my last 5 brews with terrific results.
Although somewhat time consuming, the malt flavor you can achieve is simply
spectacular. You will also get better yield. Just remember that each
decoction you pull is actually a mini-mash and should have appropriate rests
similar to the main mash.
Example -
Mash protein rest 130F for 30 min.
Pull 1st decoction & raise to 150F 30 min. Raise to 158F 15 min.
Raise to boil 30 min. & return to main mash to achieve 150F.
Rest mash 1 hr.
Pull 2nd decoction & raise to 158F 15 min.
Raise to boil 15 min. & return to main mash to achieve 158F
(in a two step decoction you can go right to mashout temps.)
Rest mash 30 min.
Pull 3rd decoction & boil 10 min.
Return to main mash to achieve 168F mashout.
I have found that you need to pull about 40% of the mash, and return it to
the main mash slowly, stiring & monitoring the temp. to hit your targets. You
can add 'foundation' water to your decoctions & stir almost constantly to
avoid scorching.
The 1st & second decoction should be 'thick'; you want to leave behind the
liquid that contains the majority of your enzymes. Your final decoction
should be thin so as to minimize the release of starch in the final boil.
This brings up a question about the mashout. The final decoction will be
boiled & presumably release starch that will not be converted. In a darker
brew this may not be a problem, but in a Helles or Maibock one would assume
some starch haze. I have not had this problem. Is it because conversion is so
complete? How do German brewers achieve mashout?
I find that my brewing sessions are greatly enhanced by adding liberal
quantities of Stevie Ray Vaughan. He hasn't let me down yet. Bottling goes
much faster to some happy Grateful Dead tunes. I try to avoid Dwight Yoccum
anymore - the tears tend to alter my mineral profile.
Chris Pertschi
Floodin' down in Philly
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:16 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject: decoction mash out
collective homebrew conscience:
tim martin wrote:
>I'm thinking of removing a third of the grains with a strainer (after
>completion of mash) and transferring it to another kettle, adding water to
>prevent scorching and boil for say 15 minutes and then return to the
>mash tun for mashout. I guess I could pull grains and sweet wort to boil
>since I am done with the enzymes anyway.
>Do any of you decocers (new word) think I will enhance my beer with
>this procedure or just waste my time and propane and ruin my beer. I'm
>more concerned about flavor enhancement then reaching mashout
>temperature.
one of the aims of boiling the solid fractions during decoction mashing is to
*physically* degrade starch grits into smaller pieces that enzymes can handle
more easily. as the starch grits heat up, they swell and "burst". if this
is added back to the mash tun and the temperature is raised to mash out at
recombination, there will be enzyme-accessible starch in the wort that has
no chance of ever getting saccharified. this causes haze and is food for
bacteria later.
noonan's book states that for mashing out, only the liquid should be drawn
out and boiled. this minimizes the liberation of more starch.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
dave riedel wrote:
>Recently, my attempts to find silicone tubing (good to *well* over 200F)
><snip> I wanted to use the tubing to
>1. Connect my sparge water tank to my sprinkling attachment
>2. Move the run-off point closer to the bottom of the kettle to minimize
HSA due to splashing
>and 3. Connect my kettle to my CF chiller
>while 4. Maintaining the convenience of flexability between tuns (converted
kegs).
i've never had problems with 170 deg fahrenheit sparge water, and the mash
liquor at the outlet of the lauter tun (typically lower, around 150 deg f),
while using the regular tubing available at hb stores. item 3 above is the
one to be concerned with, i think.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
ron karwoski wrote:
> Has anyone any information on the German Pilsen style malt?
> I tried it for the first time today and was unable to get it to convert.
><snip>After 4-5 hours of babysitting this mash I decided that it wasn't going
> to happen and drained the mash tun.
> Am I right in assuming that this style malt can't be used alone, or am I
> missing something?
pils malt is enzyme-rich. not sure what the problem could have been, unless
you were sold something other than true pils malt. german 2 row pils malt
should have ample enzymes to convert itself in short order, far less than
4 or 5 hours. do you know the malting company's name and the "type" (what the
company calls it, e.g. pilsen, aromatic, caravienne, etc.) of malt?
- ----------------------------------------------------------
ian smith wrote:
>I recently purchase a kegging system and need help! I carbonated at 40
>psi for a day, reduced the pressure to 7 psi, chilled in refrigerator and
>whenever I dispense a beer all I get is FOAM ! I am using a 1/4" ID
>superflex clear vinyl hose about 3 feet long and one of those plastic "no
>drip" beer taps. Can anyone help me with why I get 100% foam ???
two things that can cause foam are: 1)too little restriction in the outlet hose,
and 2)gas breakout caused by the beer warming as it travels from the keg to the
tap. put the keg in the refrigerator with the dispense hose and let the hose
get as cold as the beer in the keg. dispense a beer with the tap wide open.
if you still get 100% foam (and the beer is not overcarbonated to begin with),
you need more restriction in the line to slow the beer down before it hits the
glass. either a smaller diameter outlet hose, or a longer hose length, will
increase the resistance. holding the dispense hose above the keg as high as
possible will help a little (gravity helps you slow the flow).
i find that i get less foam overall if i open the tap all the way. if the
restriction imposed by the hose is correct , the flow rate is
not too fast with the tap all the way open. (in fact it's probably slower than
with the tap only partially open. bernoulli, venturi, etc...)
even with all these tactics employed, if i try to pour just one glass of beer,
there's still a bit too much foam, in my system. pouring an entire pitcher
turns out a lot better (foam/beer ratio).
hope this helps,
brew hard,
mark bayer
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