HOMEBREW Digest #2381 Mon 24 March 1997

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  Sparge SG (Spencer W Thomas)
  Pet Safety and Hop Rhizomes (erikvan)
  square cooler for 5 gal. recipes?? ("Robert Marshall")
  Re: lemon lager (UTC +01:00)" <d_peters at e-mail.com>
  Stuck Ferment ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
  Hormones (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Bull-Njaa?=)
  0xygen Tanks (Richard Klug)
  HCl (A. J. deLange)
  RE:   Decoction - concensus on Temp, not on Percent (Russ Brodeur)
  RE: RIMS question ("Bridges, Scott")
  Decoction thread (Cory Chadwell)
  Starch in Steeped Grains (Mark Riley)
  First Annual St. Vrain Spring Runoff Hom (Curt Schroeder)
  Re: Decoction - concensus on Temp, not on Percent (Bob McCowan)
  Input for decoction discussion ("C&S Peterson")
  Spam from AOB/AHA (Kelly Jones)
  decoction processing (Charles Rich)
  Re: Input for decoction discussion (Charles Burns)
  Maui brew pubs (Margaret S Johnson)
  Dog killing hops? (John C Peterson)
  Corn ("Raymond Estrella")
  extract to grain conversions (Tim & Marilyn)
  Re: Edme Pressure Barrel (David Townsend)
  need good head (Gavin Scarman)
  Guiness on tap  at home (Callahan)
  Setup in New House (milledon)
  Re: Lemon Lager (Hal Davis)
  re: constant RIMS pumping + RIMS dough-in? ("C.D. Pritchard")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:04:54 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Sparge SG Yesterday, Domenick Venezia posted some real data, from 10 batches, on the decrease in SG as sparging progresses. I took the data and made a rough-and-ready chart from it. The whole thing may be viewed at http://realbeer.com/spencer/Experiments/sparge-sg.html =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:26:51 -0600 (CST) From: erikvan at ix.netcom.com Subject: Pet Safety and Hop Rhizomes Layne Rossi wrote in HBD #2378: >Dogs get poisoned by Hops? Are other animals affected as well? I've been >considering planting hops and have started looking for a source to buy >some. Now I'm looking for information on this new BIG problem. >There are several dogs around as well as; horses, sheep, rabbits and deer >that like to frequent my yard and unfortunately the fenced in garden area. >How exactly are the dogs affected? Can they be affected by dried hops? If >anyone has some answers or would be able to direct me to some additional >reading I would appreciate the help. I originally read a news item in an issue of Zymurgy about this. The report involved sighthounds. They all suffered from "malignant hyperthermia", which is an uncontrollable fever, followed by convulsions. The first symptom is heavy panting, followed by rapid heartbeat and rise in body temperature. The substance in hops that causes the disease has not been identified. I have a Golden Retriever, and understand your fears. All the reported cases involved dogs eating spent hops, or the hops after the boil was complete. No reference was made to fresh hops, which could indicate that the chemical causing the death was formed in the boil. But, I too am nervous. My dog is my brew buddy, but when it comes to straining the wort, or cleaning the boil equipment, she stays away. I wouldn't be too worried about the other animals though. Their diets consist of greens and such. But if you can put a fence around your hop plants to keep the dogs out, please do. I did. I don't want to take any chances with my dog. And also: Chris Strickland wrote in HBD #2376: >I've been reading this thread with interest. I live in Florida and I'm on >my 3rd year of growing Cascades. Last year I had about 2oz of flowers. >The previous year I had some flowers, but not much. I grow the hops in >gallon plastic pots that have holes in the bottom. The roots grow through >the holes. After the first year I cut the roots at the bottom of the pots >and moved them. In hopes that the roots in the ground would grow. Nothing >happened. Now I'm hearing that right now would be the best time to cut the >roots. But my plants are about 4 ft high with right now. Can I cut the >root at the bottom of the pot again to get new plants? Will it hurt my >current growth? First off Chris, the roots on the bottom of the pots are nothing more than roots. Although a rhizome is considered a root, it varies from a typical root. What you are clipping at the bottom are the roots used to get water and nutrients, I don't know what you really call them, but you get the idea. If you clip them, they will die. Which brings us to the lack of production. I'm no expert, but it seems that clipping the roots might cause damage to the plants, or at least inhibit the retrieval of nutrients. Your hop plants are also trying to tell you something. The pots they are in are too small. It's too late now to do anything, but next February, take the hops, cut off some rhizomes, and plant all of them into the ground. Fertilize the ground well with manure, some mulch, and water well. You will notice a difference. By the way, rhizomes are a thicker piece of root. When you pull the hop plant out, you will notice the size difference, and you'll notice "buds" on them. Try to get a couple of buds per cutoff. Good luck in your brewing and growing adventures, Erik Vanthilt The Virtual Brewery Http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html News, links, recipes, hints, and a monthly brew-newsletter... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:19:20 +0000 From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net> Subject: square cooler for 5 gal. recipes?? I've decided to move on to all-grain brewing (finally!!). Right now I'm considering building a square picnic cooler mashtun. While I hope to eventually move on to larger sizes, I'm concentrating on 5 gallon batches right now. Anyone wish to make any suggestions on size for this? The local Wal-mart has both 48 and 56 qt sizes on sale for under $20. Will the 56 qt be too big? For that matter will the 48 be as well? I've seen all the debate about round vs. square already. What I need are suggestions about the square one. Thanks in advance. Robert Marshall robertjm at hooked.net homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm - ---------------------------------------------- "In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true that the brewer is king." Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916) Flemish writer - ------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 06:03:49 EST From: "DAVID T. PETERS GERMANY(UTC +01:00)" <d_peters at e-mail.com> Subject: Re: lemon lager I always thought it funny when I see people get so excited about the first time they are able to pipe in about something they know. Well this is my first input to the hbd other than questions and I understand their feeling. Back to the beer page. Yesterday: >From: Stan Ridgeway <satan at psycho.chicken.org> >Subject: Re: lemon lager >... My old German teacher told us that the Radler is something >a ten year old might get to drink, because his parents might not want him >to get blitzed on a half liter of beer. It's also something one wouldn't >feel guilty about drinking at 10 am. To clarify this issue. Germany has a great expanse of bicycle paths throughout the country. This includes the wine region and many others. A bicycle is known as a FahrRAD. As you well know beer is considered food here in Germany and is a staple in everyday life. While bicycling the Germans desired a refreshing beer beverage to sustain them but did not want to later fall off of their bicycles. There answer to this was to develop the RADler, a mixture of beer and lemonade. REGARDS, DAVID T. PETERS E-MAIL: d_peters at e-mail.com CW170 NA BODY CONSTRUCTION LEADER, VEHICLE OPERATIONS FORD OF GERMANY, MERKENICH MAIL LOCATION: D-ME/MF-21 PROFS ID: DPETERS3 PHONE: 9-1-70-37791 FAX: 9-1-70-31635 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 06:51:59 +0000 From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com> Subject: Stuck Ferment Greetings, My starter didn't start as quickly as I expected. As a result, the volume was less than optimal for pitching. I fermented my American Pale with Wyeast London (yeah, not very American) for two weeks from 62 to 68 deg F. Orig grav 1.065, current gravity 1.028. What might I be able to do? Thanks. Nathan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 13:12:03 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Bull-Njaa?= <torbjorn.bull-njaa at sds.no> Subject: Hormones Rob Moline in HB 2380 talks about female hormones in beer. I hope this fact does not surprise anybody. The hormones mentioned probably come from the hops, which contain a certain amount of a hormone closely related to female hormones. Actually, hops have in older days been used as a drug to "cure" rapists and other sexually "overactive" cases. According to my botanical books, hop pickers (in former days of course, now the machines have taken over .. or?) are also known to develop female "breasts" etc. Cheers, girls! Torbjorn Bull-Njaa Norway Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:35:30 +0000 From: klugrd at ma.ultranet.com (Richard Klug) Subject: 0xygen Tanks Does anyone have experience using Bernz-O-Matic (tm) oxygen tanks with their Oxynator (tm) wort aeration system? I am looking for any specific information about purity and such. Are the tanks made by the same supplier? They are similar in appearance and volume (1.1# 02). The Bernz-O-Matic are available at Home Depot for 8 bucks, Oxynator charges about 20. Please send private email if possible, and I will post a summary. Thanks. Trying to save a buck or 6, Richard Klug Wellesley, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:35:45 -0500 From: ajdel at nospmindspring.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: HCl Charley Burns asked about using hardware store muriatic acid for lowering the pH of sparge water. Yes, it works just fine and you use so little of it that the fact that it isn't food grade can, perhaps, be overlooked but as you can buy food grade phosphoric acid and lactic acid why not use one of those? Anyway I calculate the hardware store stuff to be 8.75 N which means that each milliliter contains 8.75 milliequivalents (mEq) of hydrogen ions. In order to calculate how much is needed you need to know the alkalinity of your water (check the water report or see below). Alkalinity is almost always given in ppm (mg/L) "as calcium carbonate". Divide the given value by 50 to get the mEq per liter. For example, if the alkalinity is 100 ppm as CaCO3, there are 2 milliequivalents per liter. Multiply the mEq/L by the amount of water to be adjusted. Five gallons of sparge water is 19 liters so the total alkalinity in this volume of the example water would be 2*19 = 38 mEq and you would need 38/8.75 = 4.34 mL of the acid. This amount will bring the pH to near 4 (because of the way alkalinity is defined). In practice you should probably measure out a bit more acid than calculated (say 5 mL in this example) and dilute it in a liter of water (add acid to water), then stir, say, half of this into the sparge water. Now add the rest bit by bit, monitoring pH as you go (test strips are plenty accurate enough for this) until you reach the desired pH. If you don't know the alkalinity of the water you could try putting 10 mL of the acid into one liter of water and then add this a little at a time to the 5 gal until pH 5 is reached. This will tell you how much to use in the future. If you do the same experiment until pH 4.3 is reached you have just done what the analyst does when he measures alakalinity (except that he does it on a smaller scale and uses HCl whose strength is more accurately known). Alk = 50*(mL of diluted acid used/1000)*(8.75*10) ppm as CaCO3 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Anyone care to estimate how many chain letters I'd have to send out to get a date for the prom? Scientific notation OK A. J. deLange - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. - --> --> --> To reply remove "nosp" from address. <-- <-- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:41:33 -0500 From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com> Subject: RE: Decoction - concensus on Temp, not on Percent In HBD #2380 Charley summarizes some of his off-line discussions regarding decoction mashing. ""I've had recommendations that say pull from 1/3 to 1/2 for the decoction on one end to pull 90% (virtually all) the grain for the decoction. Now, I've been doing the 80-90% trick and not having very good luck. Lets have a public discussion here on the relevant advantages of one over the other."" I was (a) proponent of the "virtually all" technique. This needs to be qualified, though. I use a 40-60-70 decoction schedule to easily control wort fermentability. Both of the temp. steps in this schedule require pulling "as much as possible" of the thickest mash. I use a strainer, which means I do not have very much liquid present in the decoct, so the heat capacity (??)of my decoct is lower than that of the rest mash. I know a lot of people add water to the decoct, thus increasing its heat cap., so they wouldn't need to pull as much. I find it is much much much easier to cool, using ice, a small amount of boiling mash to the strike temp than it is to heat the entire mash if I undershoot by not pulling a large enough decoction. Using a double decoction I find that the 135-40 F rest yields both increased fermentability (high BA activity) and decreased chill haze (provided there is some "pale" malt in the grist). I am a strong advocate in favor of using the 40-60-70 temp profile with decoction mashing, though not with infusion mashing. TTFN Russ in Franklin, MA mailto:r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 08:37:00 EST From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> Subject: RE: RIMS question Jason (Huskers fan, yuck) asks, >I'm building a RIMS. I've had $30 worth the square tubing welded in to a >three tier stand. Should have done this batches ago. It's amazing what the >right equipment will do for you. I'm getting my temperature control together >(thanks to Ken Schwartz) and have a pump on order. Heater chamber parts are >at the plumbers waiting to be solder together. The equipment seems to falling >into place. > >The only thing is I'm not sure how to operate it! Do you RIMSers let the >pump run the whole time? Or just to do temperature raises and now and then >to maintain a rest temperature? Ant other tips are welcome as well. I can >hardly wait to crank this baby up. I claim in no way to be a RIMS expert, but I'll be glad to share my experience as a data point. I've been using my home made RIMS for about 4 months and maybe 5 batchs (I've been too busy to brew as much as I would like). I tend to let the mash settle for about 15 minutes after the initial infusion. I use this to let the temperature stabilize, so I know where I'm starting. Then, I begin recirculating and depending on the temperature program, I may or may not begin immediately to run the heating element. I've used numerous temp programs, depending on grain bill and beer style. I've not really settled on an "optimum" temperature program. I'd be interested in hearing others' comments on that. Typically, once the pump is running I let the pump run to recirculate during the entire mash. Then, when I'm ready to transfer to the kettle, I just switch the chamber outlet from going back into the mash over to the kettle. I throttle back on the flow into the kettle, since I recirculate faster than you would want to sparge. Good questions, Jason. We seem to spend a lot of time talking about RIMS construction, but not as much on the actual use. I'd also like to hear about some other RIMS'ers actual routines. Also, I'd appreciate any constructive criticism of my process. Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:06:26 -0600 From: cory at okway.okstate.edu (Cory Chadwell) Subject: Decoction thread Hey Collective, There seems to be some questions about effective decoction schedule's. Lets get some comparative info flowing here (time for the old guard to speak up) Charles Burns mentioned >Ok, after much review, discussion and headslapping, the following >temps are >pretty much everyone's agreement for a single decoction: >First rest via infusion at 140F for 15-20 minutes. DO NOT under any >circumstances let this go to 145F and then reduce. Hit the 140F right >on, or >even undershoot by up to 5 degrees (ie 135F to 140F). This rest is to >release some proteins / enzymes into the liquid, and of course the >free >starch too. Here is a schedule I've used for a good tasting beer but with head retention problems. This is the base beer for a Strawberry beer so I wanted a pretty light favor so don't kill me about using the rice. Grain bill: 10 lb. pale 2 row 4 lb. raw rice 1 lb. raw wheat 1 lb. crystal 20l 2 lb. clover honey Take 5.5 gal of water raise to 104 F and add 5 lb. pale 2-row rest at 104 for 30 min. (acid rest) Raise temp to 140 F using decoction, add 1 lb wheat, 5 lb 2row and 1 lb crystal at 140 F, rest at 140 F for 30 min. (I'm thinking about reducing this rest time to 15 min.) raise temp to 158 F using 3rd decoction, rest at 158 F for 30 min while 3rd decoction rests add rice to boil pot with water and raise to a boil for 20 min. Let cool to 170 F and drain boil pot into mash tun to sparge. Like I said a pretty good schedule for me and I think reducing the protein rest to 15 min. will improve it with this grain bill. However I've tasted decoction batches that were better than this so if you've got a routine that works for you I'm willing to listen and learn. Whatdaya think Al, George, Jim, anyone with other experiences TIA, Cory :) Black Cat White Stripe Homebrew "It might seem like a skunk but I swear it's not!" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:46:35 -0800 From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com> Subject: Starch in Steeped Grains Hello HBD, George De Piro writes about keeping starch out of your beer. His argument that this provides a competition-free food source for such bad boys as wild yeast and bacteria makes sense to me. In fact, reviewing the recipes of some of my early extract brews, I was distressed to discover that I had unwittingly steeped grains like Munich, wheat and even 2-row pale (these were borrowed recipes). These beers became unpleasant after a little while and definitely had more than their share of gas (CO2). In any event, this leads me to my question: What about grains like chocolate and roasted barley? When these grains are steeped, don't they release starch? The grain extract tables that I've seen indicate that these highly roasted grains will still yield 23 to 30 points/pound/gallon when mashed in the presence of working enzymes. So there is starch in them, right? Or, does the roasting make this starch (somehow) unsuitable for the infectious bugs? And, FWIW, Papazian's book says that these grains should be crushed when steeped - seemingly a great way to release that starch. I've read that crystal has some unconverted starch, too. If I could speculate for a moment (admittedly a dangerous thing to do ;-), maybe steeping grains adds a small amount of starch to the beer that permits a low-grade infection that gives rise to that "homebrew twang". Any thoughts? Mark Riley Sacramento, CA BTW, "unconverted starch" seems like a rather redundant term to me, but I see it used everywhere. I mean, if starch hasn't been converted, it's still "starch". Maybe "remaining starch" would be better. Oh well. ;-/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:22:42 -0700 From: cschroed at ball.com (Curt Schroeder) Subject: First Annual St. Vrain Spring Runoff Hom You are invite to the First Annual St. Vrain Spring Runoff Homebrew Competition This is an AHA sanctioned competition featuring all AHA categories and subcategories, plus miscellanous catagories for beer and mead that do not fit the AHA style guidelines. For more information on style guidelines contact the American Homebrewers Association or the undersigned. First place winners in each category will be judged in a final round to determine the Best of Show beer and Best of Show mead. For beer and meads that do not fit in any AHA category we have two Spring Runoff category. Category 86 is for those of you that brew great beers that do not fit into any particular style. Category 69 is for any mead that does not clearly fit into any of the mead styles. Rules & Regulations will be made available to interested parties. Bottles: An entry shall consist of three bottles within guidelines of the rules. Paperwork: 1997 AHA entry form, inquire with undersigned for copies Entry Fees: An entry fee of $4 per entry will be collected on all entries. Limitations: Brewers are limited to one entry per AHA subcategory, two per major AHA category. Where To Enter: Entries can be shipped, postage paid, by common carrier to, or may be delivered in person. Entries are to arrive between April 12th and April 26, 1997. The Overland Stage Stop Brewery 526 Main St. Longmont, CO 80501 (303) 772-3734 Other drop off locations exist with the state of Colorado, inquire the undersigned for details. Judging: The judging will take place from 9:00 am - 5:00 p.m. on Saturday, May 3, 1997 at The Overland Stage Stop Brewery. If you are not a registered BJCP judge, and would like to judge at the competition please contact the undersigned. Stewards and apprentice judges are always welcome. Awards Ceremony & Celebration: An awards ceremony will start shortly after judging is completed. Medals and prizes will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place entries in each category. The best of show will get to brew their beer at the Overland Stage Stop Brewery within the means and guidance of the Overland Stage Stop Brewery (funky yeasts strains and/or complicated decoctions etc. may not be considered). Spectators are invited to the judging with food and beer available for purchase at discounted rates. Direct any questions and inquiries to: Curt Schroeder cschroed at ball.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:45:53 -0500 From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com> Subject: Re: Decoction - concensus on Temp, not on Percent Obviously, if you're trying to go from 122 - 153 you need to pull a bigger decoction than if you go from 140 -153. >Now, I've >been doing the 80-90% trick and not having very good luck. What was your bad luck? - overshooting temp, slow conversion? For overshooting you can just add back the decoction in stages and stop when you hit your strike. Cool the remaining decoction and add in. >Is this really the only factor that we need to consider? Or are we concerned >about boiling more of the mash to achieve more melanoidin formation, or >higher extraction? Really the reason to do a decoction (other than masochism) is to boil the grains. To make it worth the trouble you probably want to boil at least half the grains. Another thing you could do is a 105-130-155 sequence with two decoctions. Then most of the grain will get boiled at least once. Bob - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob McCowan ATG/Receiver-Protector voice: (508)-922-6000 x208 CPI BMD fax: (508)-922-8914 Beverly, MA 01915 e-mail: bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 14:43:04 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at msn.com> Subject: Input for decoction discussion Charlie and other HBDers: While I do not exclusively brew with the decoction method, I am quite a fan. However, I do not consider myself a "guru" as Charlie requested. Being this is the HBD, I will offer my *uninformed* opinion anyway. :-) Just for purposes of definition I would consider a "thick" mash to be about 1Q per pound of grain, and a "thin" mash to be about 1.5Q per pound of grain or greater. Charlie asks for what fractions/density mash he should be shooting for when he "pulls" the decoction. I am in favor of (and this may be a repeat of previous emails): mashing in at 1Q per #, pulling enough grains to constitute 1/3 of the total mash volume (this may in fact be 1/2 of the grains -- I've never been really exact about this part of the procedure), adding boiling water to the decoction mash (usually about 1/2Q per #) to get to 160F, resting, boiling for the prescribed decoction, and re-combining with the rest mash. This makes a pretty thin decoction. I think the thin mash provides the brewer with greater temperature control, helps prevent scorching, and reduces possible HSA from overstirring a thick mash. I do not see the big advantage in thick mashes. I can produce a VERY dextrinous (sic) wort simply by mashing in the high temp range, get lots of color/carmelization with the thin mash boil, and seem to get quicker conversion with the thinner mashes than the thick ones. The only reason I could see for trying to keep the mash thick would be if I were mash tun limited and wanted to make a high gravity beer. But I'd consider double mashing before I attempted an ultra-thick mash for a high gravity wort. Maybe those of you who work with particularly thick mashes have some secrets to share? Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:49:34 -0800 From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com> Subject: Spam from AOB/AHA Brian Rezac, AHA Administrator, wrote: >The spammings that you are refering to did not originate at the AOB/AHA. >Also, we have never sold or given the HBD distribution list to anyone other >than Pat & Karl And yet Arnold Neitzke has already told us (in HBD 2378) that he received a complete copy of the HBD subscriber list from the AOB/AHA simply by sending a request to their majordomo server. So, Brian, your claim that you have never given out the list lacks truth. You've given it out to at least one person, and possibly to dozens of spammers. Kelly Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:57:20 -0800 From: Charles Rich <CharlesR at saros.com> Subject: decoction processing In HBD #2380 Charley (perplexed in N. California) calls for a discussion about decoction processing Here's my two bits (place change in the courtesy cup) on my non-tradional decoction: First, regarding protein rests, I think of protein rests in a way very similar to saccarification rests. Depending on your rest temps you can develop proteins that will remain in the finished beer or not, just as you develop sugars that will ferment out or remain as flavor contributors. I give consideration to the protein profile of my beer as much as I do my sugar profile. Resting at lower temps like 112-122F (45-50C) develops simpler proteins (good for yeast growth but unlikely to be necessary) in a way similar to beta-amylase and still leaves abundant large molecular weight proteins. Too long at this temp however will degrade your medium weight proteins costing you mouthfeel and body in your finished beer. If you really want to reduce those qualities this is the place to do it. Personally I rarely perform this rest although I did recently in a 6-row + corn recipe. This rest is called for though, if you should have a glucanate problem in your finished beer -- never seen it. Resting at temps around 125-140F (51-60C) will develop medium weight proteins by degrading large molecular weight proteins. Again, the medium weight proteins are the ones you really want for your beer, the largest proteins are otherwise a wasted protein source since they'll largely coagulate in the boil and drop out as hot break and as cold break. I generally rest at 135F (57C) to keep away from my beta-amylase range and degrade my largest proteins into medium weight proteins. This also helps develop beta-amylase for the sugar rests later. I "park" my mash here while cooking the decoc fraction. In a non-decoc mash I would still rest here about 25-40 minutes depending on the grain bill Because I want to exploit as much starch as possible in a decoc, and because my personal quest is lazy brewing, I cook the biggest, thickest fraction of the mash possible, including a mini-rest at 156F (69C) before boil, and then cool it back to temp with an immersion chiller before adding back to the remaining fraction. When pulling a big fraction consider that you still need enzymes for the mini-rest so be sure to carry over a good portion of the liquid too. In cooking a decoc fraction of 3-gallons (12L) of grain I usually carry over about another gallon or gallon and a half (4-6L) of liquid. Since I heat directly, this method spares me from having to do thermal mass calculations and still renders the bulk of starch available with all the benefits of cooking (Maillard reactions) in one decoc step. Double and triple decocs with small fractions double and triple-cook some of the grain, which is tastier, with each cooking, there's no reason not to do the same while resting in the upper proteolytic stage either. When added back, the enzyme system is ready to go, medium weight proteins are developed and I go through my saccarification stop(s) deliberately. I think cooking smaller decocs while resting in saccarification temps may sometimes force you to overdevelop sugars you don't want for your profile. Infusion mashers can work out the thermal mass equations for what temp the decoc has to be when added back, to raise the whole mash to their next step. Cheers Charley (not-a-guru in Seattle, USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 13:06 PST From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Re: Input for decoction discussion At 02:43 PM 3/21/97 UT, C&S Peterson wrote: >Charlie and other HBDers: > <snip> > >Charlie asks for what fractions/density mash he should be shooting for when he >"pulls" the decoction. I am in favor of (and this may be a repeat of previous >emails): mashing in at 1Q per #, pulling enough grains to constitute 1/3 of >the total mash volume (this may in fact be 1/2 of the grains -- I've never >been really exact about this part of the procedure), adding boiling water to >the decoction mash (usually about 1/2Q per #) to get to 160F, resting, boiling >for the prescribed decoction, and re-combining with the rest mash. > This is a really interesting sounding idea. Take it straight from 140f to 158-160F without the 15-20 minute step by step method. This would create a highly dextrinous wort though, and for an Oktoberfest type it might be more appropriate than for a Vienna which is what I'm shootin' for. It has the added benefit of shortening the decoction process by 20 minutes or so. Definite benefit. <snip> I'll definitely keep this idea around for future 'fests or bocks. Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:04:19 EST From: maggiered at juno.com (Margaret S Johnson) Subject: Maui brew pubs I'm planning a trip to Maui next month and would greatly appreciate information on brew pubs located on the island (am I dreaming). Any information about fun activities off the usual tourist path would also be appreciated. Private e-mail okay. appologies in advance if this is a repeat message-I'v been having trouble w/the server. tia maggie-red Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 05:47:11 EST From: petersonj1 at juno.com (John C Peterson) Subject: Dog killing hops? Come on! I can see it now: Rover got killed by the Saaz, and Lassie ate the Cascades! The killer bees are coming for us all too. John C. Peterson Aurora, Colorado petersonj1 at juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6841 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 97 16:01:43 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com> Subject: Corn Jeff says, >I hope you will enter this brew in some competitions. It is recognized >as a style now in the category "Classic Pilsner" along with German >and Bohemian Pilsners, but we need to enter to keep it. I think we need to do some educating while we're at it. I entered a Cream Ale , which can be a high adjunct beer, at last years Saint Paul Brewing Competition. All the remarks came back saying that it had a little DMS. It did not go on. A national judge thats runs a brew pub asked me to bring my cream ale and a steam beer to the awards presentation to try. He said that the cream ale had DMS. Corn is DMS. If you taste it in a Chech Pils than there is a problem, but not in a Miller clone. This year I am using rice as an adjunct, we will see how it does. Who started that stupid "hey read this it's cool" letter, I would like to spam his ass. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:34:15 -0600 From: Tim & Marilyn <brokenskull at earthlink.net> Subject: extract to grain conversions Im wondering how to easily convert extracts to grain. For example if I needed a can of unhopped amber, or dark what grains are used and how much or each???? I'm moving towards all grain brewing and want to try some of my extract recipies. tks Tim Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:06:55 +1100 (EST) From: David Townsend <davidt at southcom.com.au> Subject: Re: Edme Pressure Barrel Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:33:38 -0800 From: Doug Otto <dotto at calweb.com> Subject: Edme Pressure Barrel Doug Otto was asking about experience with these. I have used one for several years and can honestly say I prefer it to bottling. There are lots of advantaGES. If you only depend on the co2 cartridges, then it would work out expensive. I ussually prime the barrel and leave it for a few weeks before consumption. Then I find I need to top up with cartridges towards the end. They still mature with time in the same way as bottled beers, within reason. I have seriously considered buying another so that one is ready for drinking, and on is maturing. You can fill bottles (eg PTFE for a party) but they go flat quickly. If I can set up cheaply enough with a soda tanks and CO2, then I would go this way rather than a second Edme barrel. Spemding too much on the house and garden at the moment though. Nigel Townsend, Hobart, Tasmania Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 05:03:44 +1500 From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au> Subject: need good head I've had good head before so I will recognise it when I get it. The thing is I'm not sure what gave me good head. Also what is it that causes the good head I get to last longer? Seriously I think I read somewhere that it's the protein that causes the head to form. Who can tell me more about this visual aspect? - ---------------------------------- http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman mailto:scarman at satech.net.au - ---------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:42:58 -0800 From: Callahan <homebrew at pacbell.net> Subject: Guiness on tap at home I have been brewing for a year or so and I have my homebrew on tap. Lately I have been brewing stouts and would like to be able to draw a stout with the same creamy head as guiness. I tried using nitrogen but it wasn't the same. A bartender friend said I need a guiness tap and a mix of CO2 and nitrogen in one tank. Anyone know how I can get a pint of stout that is just like guiness draught? Thanks for any help you could post and email me... homebrew at pacbell.net Bernadette - -- Reduce - Reuse - Recycle Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:17:02 -0600 (CST) From: milledon at ix.netcom.com Subject: Setup in New House Good Day Everyone, I have a great opportunity. I am building a new home in the western chicago suburbs. A new home means that I might be able to build in some of the facilities to greatly improve my beer brewing capabilities. Currently I set up and tear down after each batch. I was wondering if there are any good resources to show a homebrewery set-up. I have looked at the writing in the book called Brew Ware but would like some more information. I have been an extract brewer but the new house gives me a great chance to build the home brewery. Send e-mails to milledon at ix.netcom.com. Thanks in advance! Don Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:29:28 -0600 (CST) From: Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com> Subject: Re: Lemon Lager To Stan Ridgeway: I tried sending you a private thank-you for your post, but it got bounced. Apparently you have an anti-Spam reply-to in your header. If you'll email me your address, I'll send on the thank-you letter. Hal Davis Proprietor, the Safety Brewery, Plano, Texas Member North Texas Home Brewers Association Ignorance can be cured. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:29:33 +0700 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at mail.chattanooga.net> Subject: re: constant RIMS pumping + RIMS dough-in? Jason Henning asked in #2380: >Do you RIMSers let the pump run the whole time? Or just to do >temperature raises and now and then to maintain a rest temperature? I run mine constantly, killing it only after mashout. Helps keep the temp. uniform in the RIMS tun methinks. Although I haven't tried it, I reckon one could kill the pump after the wort clears and just use it for temp boosts. If you do stop the pump, make real sure you kill the power to the heater! Electrically interlocking the heater and the pump would be a *very* good idea if you plan intermittant pumping. A relay with coil wired in parallel with the pump's power feed and a set of normally open contacts wired in series with the heater's power is one way to interlock them. >Any other tips are welcome as well. Don't start the pump initially at a high flow, start at a low or no flow and work up to avoid a stuck mash. Arrange *all* of the piping between the pump's suction and the tun so that there are no sections which would trap air or, alternatively, provide an air vent at the top of all trapped sections. Pockets of trapped air will reduce the flow and may cause HSA. Along this line, made sure the pump suction piping is air-tight; just because the piping doesn't leak wort doesn't mean it's air-tight. - --------------- How do you other RIMS users dough-in? I typically fill my RIMS with water, recirc and heat it, kill the pump and heater, stir in the grain well, let settle for 5 mins. or so then start recirculating and heating. I know it's recommended that water be added to the malt instead of the back-assward way I do it. Anyone see any problems with this? TIA! c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html Return to table of contents