HOMEBREW Digest #2383 Wed 26 March 1997
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
spam this (John_E_Schnupp)
Iodine Test (A. J. deLange)
Iodine ("Sornborger, Nathan")
Bacteria in beer? ("Peter Brincka")
more head (Gavin Scarman)
Upstate New York Competition ("Adam Rich")
Decoction Mashing Question (haszarda)
re>gravity bottle filler (John Penn)
Re: Decoction - concensus on Temp, not on Percent (Steve Alexander)
Yeast observations / Decoction mashing (George De Piro)
Dogs and Hops ("John Penn")
Normality of 31.4% HCl; Post to the HBD (The Kirbys)
Spirit of Free Beer competition announcement (Mark Stevens)
HBD Website (Scott Abene)
Boiling Yeast (Scott Abene)
whirlpooling (Cuchulain Libby)
Special RedFish / Left Hand Dinner (Julia Herz)
yeast indicator/dye (jared froedtert)
Brewing Water makeup for Weissen Style Beer ??? (Jim Wallace)
DMS (Bill Giffin)
Spam (root)
gravity bottle filler follow-up (smurman)
Decoction Mashing ("David R. Burley")
Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley (Charles Epp)
Square Tuns and Chillers ("Michael G. Zentner")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:10:46 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: spam this
some thoughts on this spam stuff.
An industrious person doesn't really need to get a list. All
they need to do is spend a little time and copy addresses from
the postings to the HBD. It's more work than needs to be done
but it's possible.
Treat the spam just like you do the junk snail mail. Put it in
the circular file without even opening it, or does everyone
except me open all their junk mail.
back to the sidelines,
brewing in the Green Mountains,
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
john_e_schnupp at amat.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:59:14 -0500
From: ajdel at nospmindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Iodine Test
Bob McCowan wrote:
> Maybe some starch is getting trapped in the top of the mash tun.
I am sure this is the case. If taking the sample from the top of the tun be
sure to get liquid only. Let the sample settle for a couple of minutes (or
let the mash settle before taking the sample). Put the sample on a white
porcelain dish and place a drop of iodine next to the edge of the sample.
Be careful when examining the sample to be sure that you are not looking at
husk or other solid particles. They will always test black. In my
experience the iodine test gives a negative result as soon as the mash is
settled enough to take the sample after the return of the second decoction.
Note that most malt spec sheets show conversion times of 10-15 minutes. The
stuff that was free when you pulled the decoction got converted in the rest
during the decoction processing and the stuff yoy freed in the decoction
got converted shortly after it was exposed to the enzymes in the rest mash
and, as the yield differences between decoction and infusion mashes are
only a couple of percent, this latter doesn't amount to much starch.
A. J. deLange
- Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
- --> --> --> To reply remove "nosp" from address. <-- <--
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:37:49 -0500
From: "Sornborger, Nathan" <nsornborger at email.mc.ti.com>
Subject: Iodine
Every now and then I see this comment and it bothers me that yet another
person listened to a popular brew text and wasted a couple of bucks.
From: Dave Riedel
So, I went out and bought a drugstore bottle
of iodine to test for conversion.
This is fairly valid if you sanitize with bleach or something other than
Iodophor. However if you are using an Iodine based cleaner it turns dark
purple just the way tincture of Iodine does. Some fairly observant
fellow brewers had bought this stuff for years before realizing they
were cleaning with stuff that did the same thing. I just thought I'd say
something because I'm sure someone out there is doing the same thing.
Nate Sornborger
Barrington, RI
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:45:40 -0500
From: "Peter Brincka" <peter at eznet.net>
Subject: Bacteria in beer?
I hope some one out their can help me since I dont really know waht the
problem is. The last five batches my brother and I have brewed have gone
bad. Im stumped and its really starting to irk me. Ll were all grain except
the last which was extract just to see if that had something to do with it.
Also, in brewing the last batch, I bought all new equipment except a
brewing pot.
The flavor in the beer is an extremely bitter almost gasoline like taste.
What the heck is going on? We brewed a Belgium White, an elderberry ale, an
english bitter, a porter and a pale ale. We use two brewing pots when we
mash to boil the wort, one is stainless and one is enamel, I dont know if
this has anything to do with it but what the heck. Also, the beer was not
all brewed at one location, two of them were brewed at my house while the
other three were brewed at my brothers.
Someone, please help.
Peter Brincka, Peter at eznet.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:22:22 +1500
From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au>
Subject: more head
Futher to the desire for knowledge about head retention...
I have been doing decoction mashes lately and the flavour has been
excellent (IMHO). All have at least 30% malted wheat but all have had poor
head retention (for wheat beer). So I suspect it may be my mashing technique.
I do a single decoction mash as follows:
time main decoc
0 104
10 122
35 122 122 (30% 2:1)
50 122 160
65 122 160
80 122 boil
90 147
110 147
pause for iodine test (which is usually about 5 mins but I often leave a
bit longer eg 20 mins)
mash out at 170 for 5 mins
My efficiency hasn't been great but I suspect that more to do with the poor
milling.
What could I change to increase head formation and retention? I am still
unsure of what is actually in beer that causes the head to form!?
- ----------------------------------
http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman
mailto:scarman at satech.net.au
- ----------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:55:38 -0500
From: "Adam Rich" <ar at crocus.medicine.rochester.edu>
Subject: Upstate New York Competition
UPSTATE NEW YORK HOMEBREWERS ASSOCIATION
Hello Everyone,
Here is the Flyer fr the Annula Homebrew Competition in Rochester, NY. It
is rapidly approaching so if you want to enter, do it soon! The judging
will be at McGinnity's and it is supposed to be a good party. It is at 6PM
at McGinnitys on West Ridge Road. Plenty of beer, all you want, is
available. Admission is $8.
For more information see the club web page:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~pnystrom/unyha.htm.
19TH ANNUAL COMPETITION AND 8TH EMPIRE STATE OPEN
PROCEDURES
0 Complete the entry/recipe form (one for each entry!) and attach bottle
tags as instructed below.
0 Ship or drop off your entry and $5 fee per entry:
FOR SHIPPED ENTRIES:
Ship (via UPS or other service) your tagged bottles, well-packed, with your
entry form(s) and check or money order to: Wine Press & Hops, 50 State
Street, Pittsford, NY 14534
FOR DROPPED-OFF ENTRIES:
Bring tagged bottles, entry form(s) and cash, check or money order ($5 per
entry) to a drop- off location (see next page). Contest forms and fliers
will be available at all drop-off locations.
All entries must be received by:
Friday, April 4, 1997 for Drop-off locations & shipping
Monday, Tues. and Wednesday, April 7, 8 & 9, 1997 selected hours at
McGinnity's
BOTTLE RULES
0 Three brown or green glass, 10 to 17 oz., crown-capped bottles are
required for each entry. Twist-off caps that can be removed with a cap
lifter are acceptable.
0 No paint, paper, or other labels are allowed on the bottles. No raised
lettering or logos on the glass.
0 These rules also apply to mead entries!
0 Each bottle must have a completed bottle tag fastened with a rubber band.
No tape allowed!
0 Marked or labeled bottle caps are acceptable.
COMPETITION RULES
0 Each brew must be entered in one of the 11 available categories by the
entrant. It must also be entered in a sub-category. Brews will not be
reassigned to another category or sub-category by the judges or stewards.
Incorrectly entered beers may be disqualified.
0 All entries must be brewed at home or at another non-commercial location.
Brews made at fee-for-premises establishments are prohibited.
0 All entries must be submitted with legible entry/recipe forms and with a
bottle tag on each bottle.
0 Judges' decisions are final!
0 First-place winners in each category except Looks Like "Saranac Black &
Tan" and Mead will compete for Best of Show.
0 Only brews rated "good" (score of at least 25) will be awarded prizes.
0 Your entry gives UNYHA permission to print your recipe and/or judges'
comments. Recipes are not required to enter. Save your recipe in case you
win!
NOTES
0 Looks Like "Saranac Black & Tan" will be judged by the F. X. Matt Brewing
Company.
0 All contestants will receive judges' comments back within one month of
the competition.
PRIZES
0 Prizes will be awarded at the contest hall on the night of the
competition. They may also be picked up at the drop-off locations. Shipping
of any prize will be the responsibility of the prize winner.
0 All prize winners will also receive a handsome certificate. Names of all
brewers on a team-brewed entry will appear on one certificate. Prizes which
are not picked-up at the hall will be available at the drop off locations
by the end of May. If requested prizes will be shipped at the winners
expense.
NO SMOKING IN CONTEST HALL! SMOKING ALLOWED IN ADJACENT BAR
Adam Rich, PhD
Dept. of Dental Research
University of Rochester, Rochester, NY
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 08:58:06 EST
From: haszarda at stricom.army.mil
Subject: Decoction Mashing Question
Have been following the current thread re: decoction with great
interest but need a few points clarified:
First some background: I plan to use a three step decoction
mashing procedure with a mashout at 170F. I will only heat the
liquid fraction of the mash for mashout to prevent additional
starch release. As I will mash and lauter in the same vessel (as
well as boil), can I remove the liquid fraction during mashing
via my lautering manifold, or will this prematurely "set" the
grainbed prior to adding the mashout liquid back to the mash.
Bottom Line: I'm concerned that by using the lautering manifold
in my mash tun to extract the liquid portion of my mash will
"foul the works" for lautering. The work-around solution seems
to be using a kitchen colander to push down the mash and ladle
out "most" of the liquid.
Comments and suggestions, please...
Mac.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:00:43 +0000
From: John Penn <john_penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: re>gravity bottle filler
As for a leaking, foamy plastic bottle filler... The bottle filler
that came with my equipment kit had a tiny spring loaded plunger and the
beer shot out the sides near the bottom. I did get some foaming and the
small plunger was getting bent and clogged so I bought another plastic
bottler filler from the home brew store expecting it to replace the
previous one when it wore out. Well I tried it before the other one
wore out and its much nicer! If fills much faster--I have be a little
more careful to prevent overflows--and I don't have a foam or clogging
problem. This other filler has a plus sign shaped pluger and the beer
exits the bottom straight down rather than shooting out the sides. The
plunger is wider so it flows faster. I really like it so before you
give up on plastic spring-loaded fillers, take a look at the kind you
are using and see if you can get the kind I'm describing. In Maryland,
I know "Maryland Homebrew" in Columbia sells the type I like. Try
http://www.mdhb.com/
John Penn
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:18:45 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Decoction - concensus on Temp, not on Percent
My belated entry into the decoction fray ...
>Just before posting this I see that Noonan says that the amount of mash to
>pull is dependent on the thickness of the rest mash.
...
>makes sense from a purely physics sense, since the more matter you need to
...
>Is this really the only factor that we need to consider? Or are we concerned
>about boiling more of the mash to achieve more melanoidin formation, or
>higher extraction?
>
>Still confused on this one. Right now I'm leaning towards a slightly thinner
>mash than I have been using and pulling about half the mash for the
>decoction. What say the guru's out there?
1/ The decoction is a source of heat.
2/ The decoction has an effect on extraction, color, flavor,
melanoidin formation, oxidation reactions, starch gelatinization,
tannin extraction, enzyme denaturing, protein+tannin hot break
formation, hops utilization and a lot of other reactions as well.
My reason for decocting is to get the flavor and color effects (2/),
not primarily to get heat(1/). I can get heat elsewhere since I
decoction mash in a sanke with an external heat source. To maximize
these effects I pull ALL the grist (not all of the mash) for a single
decoction. If you need to be concerned with decoction as heat source,
then you need to use formula's like those in Greg Noonan's 'Brewing
Lager Beers' which account for the heat capacity of the thick
decoctions relative to the mash, and also their relative temperatures.
This is the traditional *compromise*.
Melanoidin formation is dependent on a lot of factors including
moisture content, pH and temperature and the concentrations of amino
acids and simple sugars. I believe that a thicker (less moist),
higher temperature decoction will result in more non-enzymatic
browning. pH will effect the types and amounts of the various
intermediate products produced, but its far from clear what pH might
be best, and doubtful that small pH adjustments within mash range
would have a substantial effect.
Regarding the mash temps & times - the advantages of a 40C/50C
dough-in/rest is the same as noted in George Fix' 40C/50C-60C-70C HBD
note. It hydrolyses the malt goods, and permits a quicker conversion
at the enzymatic rests. In decoction mashing tho', time is sometimes
the enemy since it takes a fair amount of time to decoct. A 40-60-70C
mash schedule with roughly 30' at each rest is virtually impossible
using a double/triple decoction mash scheme. A single decoction with
the other steps controlled by an external heat source can improve the
overall time co-ordination.
Chas Peterson writes ...
>Maybe those of you who work with particularly thick mashes have some secrets
>to share?
It's not for dextrinous wort, or mash tun limitations Chas. A thick
rest at 60C may produce on the order of 20% more soluable nitrogen
(largely MW proteins) than a normal 1.25qt/# mash at the same
temperature! Helps reduce protein haze too. I personally like a
thick proteolytic rest, 1qt/# at 55C-60C, when called for - whether
decocting or not. After the protein rest, mash thickness is a
secondary concern. It's interesting to note that according to M&BS
traditional decoction mashes are quite thin - in the neighborhood of
2.5qt/# as I recall - also quite long !!
I find much to agree with in the comments of Charley Rich and others,
Steve Alexander
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:58:25 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Yeast observations / Decoction mashing
Hi all,
I've made a couple of mildly interesting yeast observations, and
thought that some of you folks might be interested in reading about
them.
The first has to do with Wyeast 3068, the Weihenstephan wheat strain.
I fermented 11.5 gallons of HefeWeizen in a 1/2 bbl keg; I usually
ferment in carboys. Pitching temperature was in the mid 50's F (~12.8
C) and fermentation was in the low 60's F (~17.2 C). Pitching
quantities and wort aeration were as usual for me.
This yeast usually forms quite a loose cake at the bottom of the
fermenter (when using carboys), but this time it was really solid. I
had absolutely no trouble siphoning clear beer out of the keg, and had
trouble harvesting the yeast!
The other interesting thing about this fermentation is that I finally
achieved my goal of minimizing fruity (banana) esters and maximizing
clove-like phenolics. I mean, really maxing out the clove. Eric
Warner would call it "bitterly phenolic."
I've heard that fermenter type and geometry can have a tremendous
effect on the fermentation, but this was really strikingly unlike my
many other experiences with this yeast. Can fermenter geometry
explain all of it, or is it likely that other forces are at work here?
The question is purely academic, of course; I'll never know for sure.
My second yeast observation is about Wyeast 2308, the Munich lager
strain. I split a batch of Pre-Prohibition Pilsner between 2308 and
2206. The 2206 got down to a SG of 1.019, a bit higher than I wanted,
but not too bad. The 2308 stopped at 1.025, and flocculated VERY
poorly. The fermenter (carboy) walls were coated with a disturbing,
dusty layer of yeast. One would think with all the yeast that was
left in suspension, the ferment would have attenuated really well, but
that wasn't the case.
I have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that some sort of
nutrient deficiency could cause yeast to adhere to glass walls, but
this doesn't make much sense in this case (the grain bill was only
17.5% corn, so I would think that the yeast had plenty of protein and
whatnot). I did attempt (and succeed) to remove most cold break with
a trub sack. I aerated with an aquarium pump, but perhaps with no
cold break, the yeast was still in need of more. Any thoughts?
-----------------------------
The decoction thread is quite fun to read. I'm glad to see that there
are so many other malt-headed masochists out there! Somebody
mentioned reaching a consensus about temperature steps. This just
won't happen. There is no one right way of doing it! It depends on
what kind of wort you're trying to make.
One thing I've been wondering, and have asked but not received a
definitive answer, is should the decoction mash saccharification rests
be conducted at the beta-amylase or the alpha-amylase optimum?
Melanoidins are formed when simple sugars and amino acids are
combined, so wouldn't it make sense to produce as much simple sugar as
possible to increase maltiness? Or would the effect on the resulting
wort's fermentability be too great to justify a small (negligible?)
increase in melanoidins? Does anybody care?
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Mar 1997 09:20:25 -0500
From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Dogs and Hops
Subject: Time:10:05 AM
OFFICE MEMO Dogs and Hops Date:3/25/97
I appreciate all the info clarifying the dogs and hops issues as I can now
relax and have a homebrew now. It seems that greyhounds and similar low body
fat dogs are most at risk. A lot of hops are needed, usually as AlK
mentioned, probably spent hops saturated with sweet wort are the real danger.
So it seems the best course is to take precautions such as dumping spent hops
in the garbage disposal--not the compost bin. And, it probably doesn't hurt
to be careful with raw hops or hop plants but I will stop worrying about it.
Thanks for all the clarification.
John Penn
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:43:46 EST
From: The Kirbys <bkirby at tdn.com>
Subject: Normality of 31.4% HCl; Post to the HBD
In the #2381 post of HBD A.J. deLange indicated that the concentration of
31.4% "hardware grade" Hydrochloric Acid (also known as HCl or muriatic
acid) was 8.75N. While this is probably close enough for the calculation to
approximate the quantity of acid needed to acidify sparge water, it did not
apparently take into account that the specific gravity of HCl is not unity.
This particular concentration of acid is known in the trade as 20 degree
Baume and is a minimum of 31.45% which has a specific gravity around 1.16
and would therefore make it a minimum of 10.0 N. This is the commonly found
material in the hardware stores. If you obtained some 22 degree Baume,
which is typical industrial strength it would have a strength of 35.21%
minimum and a specific gravity around 1.18 and would be about 11.3N.
Laboratory or reagent grade is known as 23 degree Baume with a specific
gravity around 1.188 and a concentration of 37% with a normality close to 12.0.
All of this is really academic since the suggestion was made to acidify
partially and then check the pH, which since the water may have a reasonable
amount of buffering, the calculated acid requirement can be significantly
different than what might have been calculated.
I hope this helps and furthur that this finds its way to the HBD. I have
been reading the HBD for a while and as a beginning homebrewer (as well as a
chemist) I often thought about how to add to the post but I never had what I
felt was a worthwhile addition but since I work in a facility that
manufactures HCl, as well as other chemicals, I thought this could be
benneficial.
As a closing, the term of muriatic acid for referring to HCl was coined from
the old chemists terminology where they used sulfuric acid (H2SO4) to
acidify brine (salt solutions) and got a gas being given off, which was HCl.
Since brine solutions were known as "muria" and the gas was acidic the
material given off was called "muriatic acid".
Brew well,
Brien Kirby
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:03:42 -0500
From: stevens at stsci.edu (Mark Stevens)
Subject: Spirit of Free Beer competition announcement
Brewers United for Real Potables
announces
The Fifth Annual Nation's Capital
SPIRIT OF FREE BEER
Homebrew Competition
===========================================================
When: June 7, 1997
Where: Vienna, Virginia
Entries Due: May 30, 1997
Fees: $6 first entry; $5 second; $4 each additional
Sanctioned by both the American Homebrewers Association and
the Beer Judge Certification Program. Categories for all
styles of beer, plus mead and cider.
Outstanding prize package for winners in every ribbon class,
plus the best-of-show gets to brew the winning recipe at
the Virginia Beverage Company. Last year the 3rd place winners
in each class received over $50 worth of merchandise, gift
certificates, subscriptions, etc. First and second place
winners got even more...
Entry packets are now available. BURP members should have
received theirs within the past few days. Packets are
available:
* At Washington-area area homebrew supply shops
* On the BURP web page:
http://www.burp.org/
* By mail. Contact Mark Stevens, stevens at stsci.edu
Quality judging and quality feedback to brewers are BURP's
top priorities. We are looking for active BJCP judges to
evaluate entries. Judges can contact our judge coordinator,
Greg Griffin, gmgriff0 at wcc.com, or see the call for judges
on the BURP web page.
Good luck!
---Mark Stevens
Competition Organizer
Spirit of Free Beer
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:39:58 -0600
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: HBD Website
Hi All,
Being the newly found WebMaster on the HBD site ( http://brew.oeonline.com
)I have given it a new look from what Pat Babcock (bless his heart) had
originally given it but it isn't enough to make the site great.
I would like suggestions as to what you all as subscribers would like to see
on the HBD website. The web is a great base for Homebrew knowledge and I
think making the HBD a very informative Homebrew www site is important to
all of us.
There are many great resources out there for just about everything... e.g.
Glen T's Hop pages, Marty's pages, The Brewery site, Spencer's, my little
page etc but they are all scattered about the web and often great resources
are overlooked or just plain unknown.
What could be done to possibly combine some of this knowledge onto one site?
I am up for any discussion and suggestions.
*** You can post ideas to the HBD but please cc me at skotrat at wwa.com
Thanks.
-Scott
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:42:57 -0600
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Boiling Yeast
Hi,
I have been getting some email from my site asking about boiling old yeast
in your wort to create food for new yeast in the primary.
I have found only a couple of references to this process and would like the
skinny from you's guys.
What are the benefits if any?
C'ya!
-Scott
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:43:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan at connecti.com>
Subject: whirlpooling
Hello Gary,
Welcome to the most fun you can have with your clothes on (well clothing
optional really).
Whirlpooling refers to using a spoon to stir the COOLED wort in the cooker
to create a mound of hot break, trub, hops, etc in the center to keep it
away from the siphon. leaving it in the cooker and not transferring it to
the primary. Typically, it goes something like this:
Full boil
Cool wort via immersion chiller
stir rapidly, creating a whirlpool
Let settle 10 mins. or so
Siphon as normal
Somethings to consider:
I use an 8.25gal tamale pot (enamel on steel) giving me a rather wide and
shallow vessel I would guess that higher narrower stainless pots wouldn't be
as efficient.
Those of you that use counterflow chillers, obviously stir while still hot
(HSA?)
I never did a partial-boil and can't tell you if the hot-brak/trub formation
is as efficient.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:58:51 -0700
From: Julia Herz <design at bouldermarketing.com>
Subject: Special RedFish / Left Hand Dinner
Ladies and Gentleman of Homebrew On-line,
Please consider informing your readership about the following Brew Event:
This Wednesday night March 26 come celebrate the art of quality brewing and
quality cuisine.
RedFish New Orleans Brewhouse along with Left Hand Brewery are hosting a
Brewmaster's 5 course dinner, tasting and discussion along with Billiards,
Live Jazz and a general sense of letting the good times roll!
Two seatings at RedFish Brewhouse: 6:30 pm and 8:30 pm
Tickets $42 by advance purchase only. (Includes tax & gratuity)
Space still available!
RedFish Restaurant, 2027 13th Street, Boulder, Colorado 80302
(Right in downtown Boulder off of 13th and Pearl)
303.440.5858
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:53:57 -0500
From: jared froedtert <froedter at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: yeast indicator/dye
Hello y'all,
I posted some information last week regarding a culture media
reciepe i had seen in a scientific media cataloge. I got many responses, to
my suprise. It's cool there are other who found intrest in this too.
Anyways, I investigated the dye/indicator (d/i) which i mentioned,
would distiguish between yeast and bacteria. I talked to a buddy of mine
who brew's in Brooklyn, NY, he attended American Brewer's Guild out in Cali.
He told me the only d/i which he was aware of was methyl blue. Methyl blue
will pass through the cell membrane of and stain the cell of a dead yeast,
but will not pass through the membrane and stain live yeasts.
This would allow you to sample your fermentor to see what the yeast
viabilty in your culture could be at any given time. This is helpful in two
ways. One, you can see how well of an environment you've created for your
little buddies (yeast) to grow, pH, temp, food( sugars). Two, you don't to
let your fermenting or post-fermentive wort set on top of a lot of dead
yeast that start autolysing, and dumping some off flavors into your beer.
Of course you wil need a microscope and all the toys, slides, cover slips
and of course the stain. But that's fun to me. And i'm fortunate to have
access to a lab, after hours of course, hope boss-man isn't reading my mail.
That's all for now. If i find anything new info i'll post it.
brewing near the third coast...
J at red Frodtert
froedtert at pilot.msu.edu
East Lansing, MI
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:55:49 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Brewing Water makeup for Weissen Style Beer ???
I am about to do my first decoction with a Weissen Style recipe.
My local water is very soft (almost good enough for Pilsner) and I usually
add minerals for most styles of beer.
Does anyone know what the mineral content for a weissen should be or a
brewing city where it is historically made?
Any input appreciated here...
___________________________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ___ jwallace at crocker.com
http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:55:06 -0600
From: Bill Giffin <billgiffin at maine.com>
Subject: DMS
Top of the afternoon to ye all,
Raymond Estrella said:
>Competition. All the remarks came back saying that it had a little
>DMS. It did not go on. A national judge thats runs a brew pub asked
>me to bring my cream ale and a steam beer to the awards presentation
>to try. He said that the cream ale had DMS. Corn is DMS. If you taste
>it in a Chech Pils than there is a problem, but not in a Miller clone.
DMS is in all beers. If it isn't then it probably isn't beer or at least
insipid beer at best.
To the best of my knowledge corn isn't DMS or does it create DMS.
DMS content of beers (ppb)
British Ales 14
British lagers 16-27
Continental lagers 44-114
German lagers 32-205
Canadian ale 92
Canadian lager 114
United States 59-106
I would imagine that the Czech pils would have DMS similar to the
German lagers and have a fairly high amount of DMS.
The threshold for DMS is some where around 30 ppb +/-, as you can
see from the above chart that most of the beers have DMS in excess of
the threshold. Why don't we taste it then? Because it is masked by
some other component of the beer, hops etc.
Too frequently DMS is treated as a flaw in a beer when much of the
time it adds to the flavor profile as maltiness and adds complexity.
Remember if it doesn't have DMS it probably isn't beer.
Bill
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:53:08 -0500
From: root at a2607cc.msr.hp.com
Subject: Spam
Hi all!
Just a quick comment on spam and the HBD distribution list, while
the digest was being served by the MajorDomo list server software
(while in the control of the AOB) a registered subscriber could request
and obtain a complete subscriber list by simply sending a request to
the same address as used to subscribe of to unsubscribe. I know this
was the case as I tried it and it worked (no I didn't sell the list to
spammers I was just trying to track down why I was getting 3 copies of
each digest and make sure that I was only registered one time) so the
source of the list being distrbuted could be traced to anyone who
was a registered subscriber while the majordomo software was being used.
"I have found the enemy and he is us!"
Now to beer, I recently did my second all grain/full boil batch and
do to the fact that I was trying to multi-task and set up a new
computer while I was brewing I had a brain fart and forgot to do a
mash-out, I simply started draining the wort and sparging with 180^F
water. The batch was a basic brown ale and the ferment has gone
like gang-busters (Wyeast 1007 German Ale at 68^F) and I am curious
what effect my lack of a mash-out may have. Any ideas from the collective?
TIA 8^)
Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
Chris_Cooper at hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:02:48 -0800
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: gravity bottle filler follow-up
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions on replacing the cheap
plastic spring-loaded bottle filler I had been using. By far
the overwhelming number one recommendation was to get a Phil's
Philler. The one complaint with the Philler was that it wasn't
a hands-off type of operation, but Steve Schultz mentioned that
he solved that problem by attaching a 3" piece of hose between
the spigot and the Philler, allowing the Philler to "hang there".
The bottle can then be moved under the Philler to start the flow.
Other methods that got support were simply turning on and off the
spigot (that this is even mentioned tells you how badly the
spring loaded deals work), and attaching a tap and hose to
the spigot of the bottling bucket.
Thanks for the help, I'll be picking up a Phil's Philler before
my next bottling session.
SM
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:27:18 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Decoction Mashing
Brewsters:
I've been reading a lot of discussion on decoction mashing, some right ,
some wrong. Dr. Pivo's discussion and others have missed the whole point
of decoction and why it is distinctily different from an infusion mashing
procedure - even the step infusion method. Decoction mashing is not just a
method of adjusting the temperature as Pivo intimates. Britsh Bitters
typically have a caramelly, hoppy taste predominantly and German beers have
a malty taste. Perhaps Dr. Pivo is confusing the sweet nature of dextrins
or caramels in British beers with maltiness. Melandoins are formed in
producing crystal malts, but are typically not the predominant flavor since
caramel ( sugar only reaction product) often predominates.
Melandoins give that malty taste and are formed via a reaction between
sugars and nitrogenous compounds At THE BOIL. So, a decoction step must
contain a saccharification hold to form sugars ( around 150-155F for 15 to
30 minutes) AND a boil for 30 minutes to form the melandoins. A slow heatup
to saccharification is prefered to generate some nitrogenous compounds from
the proteins on the under-modified malts.
Pivo is correct in pointing out that the decoction size will determine the
next temperature step in most normal cases and that it is extremely unwise
to take a large decoction, since you will be denaturing much of the enzyme
content during the boil which will be needed in the main mash to sacharify
all the starch released in the boil. ( Notwithstanding that some of the
enzymes are dissolved in the water in the main mash). 1/3 of the grist is
the correct order of magnitude. This is especially critical in multiple
decoctions.
For those of you who want to do a decoction with highly modified malts
like Pale Ale, take your mash to 145F by infusion, remove about one-third
of the grist with a strainer, add water and heat to 155F hold for 15-30
minutes and heat to boil for 30-60 minutes. Return this to the main mash
allowing it to go to 155-158F to a negative starch reaction - perhaps 90
minutes because of the reduced enzyme content, especially in multiple
decoction sequences. If you can't return all the decoction to the main
mash without the temperature going too high, add what you can, add cold
water to the decoction to 155-158F and add it to the main mash.
A pseudo-decoction method which I use sometimes with fully modified malts -
like British Pale Ale malts - is to take 1/3 of the grist before adding
water to the main mash and put this 1/3 through the same temperature paces
as a decoction. Then add this to the main mash as part of the strike
liquor in the single temperature infusion mash. It works, as does this
method with a "goods" mash used with adjuncts.
I selected 145F since this will denature any active protein enzymes and be
below the highly active region for beta amylase. Also alpha amylase will
not produce the substrates needed by the beta anyway. If this is allowed
to cool to 140F or so this is really no problem once the 145F has been
reached, since the proteinases have been largely denatured.
For lager malts which have not been highly modified then I recommend the
93, 122, 135,158-162F and mashout sequence used by German decoction
mashers. Alternatively, other options are available depending on the grist.
I suspect this is the major reason for the confusion on these various
temperature hold sequences. The type of malts in the grist must always be
specified when giving a mash temperature sequence.
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:02:05 -0600
From: Charles Epp <chuckepp at ukans.edu>
Subject: Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley
Greetings, fellow brewers.
This is a summary of responses to my request some time ago for reports
on experiences with Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley ale yeast. Most
people who responded privately reported some level of dissatisfaction
with the yeast due to excessive production of esters or other
strong-tasting by-products (comments ranged from "very fruity" to
"fruitbasket" to "bleach"-tasting). On the other hand, two responders
reported acceptable results -- one in a dark ale made with roasted
grains (likely masking the off-flavors), and the other in a beer that
was the first try at liquid yeast for the brewer (my guess is that 1275
worked better than the dry yeasts the brewer had used in the past).
Although the number of responses was not large, I believe it to be
significant that no brewer stood up to defend 1275 as a great, or even
generally acceptable, yeast. Hope this is useful.
Chuck in Lawrence
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Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:51:33 -0800
From: "Michael G. Zentner" <zentner at combination.com>
Subject: Square Tuns and Chillers
> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:47:57 -0800
> From: John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com>
> Subject: Square Vs. Round Tuns
>
> Robert Marshall wrote about tips for using square coolers.
>
> I have found that square coolers work quite well. I used a 48 quart
> cooler for years with little problem. I would think that size of choice
> would depend upon the brew length and gravity that you wish to achieve.
I have recently built one of these things with copper instead of CPVC
(and YES, everyone, clean your copper out on the inside before using
it) and have been very happy with it. A couple of design differences
with copper with compression fittings. Mine initially looked like this:
> _______________________________________________________
> | |
> | O-----------------------------------------------X |
> | | |
> | O-----------------------------------------------+ |
> | | |
> | +----|---V
> | | |
> | O-----------------------------------------------+ |
> | | |
> | O-----------------------------------------------X |
> |_______________________________________________________|
with uneven spacing, so I took two curved pieces and put them on the
ends
and added two more tubes something like shown below:
> _______________________________________________________
> | |
> | O-----------------------------------------------X |
> | | |
> | |-----------------------------------------------+ |
> | |--------------------------------------------- | |
> | +----|---V
> | |--------------------------------------------- | |
> | |-----------------------------------------------+ |
> | | |
> | O-----------------------------------------------X |
> |_______________________________________________________|
Drawing obviously not proportional. I spent considerable time trying
to figure out, in the absense of any of the articles on how to make
these things, do the slots face up or down? Since it is basically
symmetric, it can be done either way. I have run it twice with slots
down under the argument that 1) No weight of the grain directly on
the slots would result in little blockage and 2) as long as there is
positive pressure (that is, liquid enough to cover the tubes themselves)
it's not like the wort will flow out through the slots just because
they are on the bottom. My bottom line, extraction rates and tests
aside is as follows. If you can sample grain from various depths
and spatial locations in the bed, and if none of it tastes sweet when
your sparge is complete, then you have done a good job.
I am interested in any other comments on these systems. I would
especially be interested in immersion wort chilling systems which to
not require external agitation. I use counterflow now, but hate
taking the time to clean and set-up every time.
Mike Zentner
zentner at combination.com
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