HOMEBREW Digest #2391 Mon 07 April 1997
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
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Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
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Contents:
Maillard Part2: Methods (Charlie Scandrett)
5 Cases Clean Brown Bottles (Free Rockville MD Area) (RedlackC)
Briess Malting Domestic Malts (Jason Henning)
Foam color again (johan.haggstrom)
hop survey (Dave Whitman)
Mead Yeast for Beer? (Denis Barsalo)
Malt Analysis (rjlee)
Hop Profiles (John Goldthwaite)
Hydrometer Correction ("John Penn")
Pils malt vs. Lager malt ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
Cornmeal for ACP/Decoctions and Melanoidins (Russ Brodeur)
competition announcement and call for judges (Mark Taratoot)
RE: Electric Immersion Chiller (Cory Chadwell)
partial extract and grain bags (Rae Christopher J)
Re: small plate heat exchangers (Joe Rolfe)
warm fermentation (Paul Brian)
Big Apple Homebrew Competition, beds for volunteers (George De Piro)
dwc pale ale malt (BAYEROSPACE)
Chuckle in Liquor Store (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
Online Malt Analysis - so what... (Charles Burns)
re:Shorter brew day (Stephen Neate)
Re: History of Styrian Goldings (Richard Gardner)
How to homebrew Natto(Fermented soy beans) (Mutsuo Hoshido)
To Randy Reed re: Better hear transfer w/sanke kegs (Tel 3024534948 )
haze question ("Adam Rich")
Harp recipe?? (Bruce Johnson)
RE: Infusion mashing for 4 hours / Thanks, Charlie (George De Piro)
Brew Dogs ("Ellery.Samuels")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:10:16 +1000 (EST)
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au>
Subject: Maillard Part2: Methods
METHODS OF CONTROLLED BROWNING
Method 1/ Place a bowl of malt extract or first runnings in a pressure
cooker with 1 litre of water in the bottom outside the bowl. Raise the
pressure escape weight-valve slightly (about 50%) with pennies. Don't worry,
the safety rating of this vessel is 8:1! The escaping steam should be about
125C-135C. Boil water in bottom of cooker ~30-40 minutes, this means boiling
extract for about ~10-20 minutes as it takes 19 to 25 mins to heat the bowl
of extract/first runnings to booiling. *No scorching will take place* and
the solution will remain at approximately the same concentration. Maillard
reactions and Caramel from molecular dehydration will take place. Adding
dextrose and fructose at 5% of sugar is a variation on this.
Method 2/ George de Piro/Noonan's method above. Place a little wort in the
kettle and thicken. But *stir continously* and do not continue rapid
evaporation after the increasing extract concentration reaches a boiling
point of 110-130C (test with thermometer). Add more water or reduce heat to
accomplish this. Continue ~20 minutes. Maillard reactions and Caramel
molecular dehydration will take place.
Method 3/ Place total wort in a 25 litre pressure cooker and bring to
designed maximum temperature for ~3-5 minutes. Release steam, uncover and
boil normally for 60 minutes. Rapid and complete hot break, very dark but
smooth Maillard reactions, and very high bittering hop isomerisation are the
result of this. Very little caramelisation as sugar concentration is much
lower than 1 and 2.
I have used methods 1 and 3 with great success. I have never tried 2.
Acidifying the mixture, or adjusting the sugar concentration will also
change the result.
THERMODYNAMICS OF SCORCHING
Why so much fuss about scorching? Well one reason is that temperature
affects Maillard reaction outcomes. Not just more melanoids, but which ones.
The higher temperature compounds are generally more astringent. The other is
PYROLYSIS, see Maillard-Part 1.
Why does the temperature rise so rapidly? Basically heat flow from flame or
element to wort meets different resistances. The thermal conductivity of the
metal (expressed as "coeficient of heat *transmission*") in the kettle wall,
and the transfer resistances (expressed as "coeficient of heat *transfer*)
at the gas/metal and the metal/wort interfaces. Of these, the transfer
resistances are about 90% of the barrier because metals have good
transmission qualities. The gas/metal is the highest of these
resistances.With *turbulent flow* conditions (i.e. no boundary layers) this
is a rough heat distribution diagram.
o oo oo o o o o o oo o o o
o oo o o o o oo oo oo o oo o oo o
o oo ooo o o WORT at 100C oo oo o
___________________________________
///////// METAL at 110C //////////
__________________________________
() () () () () () () () () () ()
HOT GAS at > 950C
However if the wort is not moving turbulently, it forms a boundary layer on
the surface of the kettle. This is a problem because the *transmission*
coeficient for water is lousy. The boundary layer then heats up and begins
to form a viscous caramelly layer which has less heat transmission
properties. This reaches PYROLYSIS temperatures and a classic scorched layer
of high temp Maillard products and carbonised cement forms on the kettle.
This has less heat transmission properties and very poor heat transfer
properties and so on. The temperature distribution diagram looks like this.
o oo oo o o o o o oo o o o
o oo o o o o oo oo oo o oo o oo o
o oo ooo o o WORT at 100C oo oo o
------------------------------------
***Carbonnised cement at 250C******
_____________________________________
///////// METAL at 350C //////////
__________________________________
() () () () () () () () () () ()
HOT GAS at > 950C
And the burnt acrid flavours enter your wort, including a few toxic ones.
Stir like hell or form your Melanoids in a steam environment like in a bowl
in a pressure cooker.
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 23:01:04 -0500 (EST)
From: RedlackC at aol.com
Subject: 5 Cases Clean Brown Bottles (Free Rockville MD Area)
I've finally made the beautiful step to kegging and I'd rather give away my
old bottles as opposed to recycling them. I have 5 cases of brown bottles in
boxes all of which are clean and w/out labels. First come, first serve. I
live in the Rockville/Bethesda Maryland area. Please respond via E-Mail.
Thanks,
Chris
redlackc at aol.com
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Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:06:12 -0800
From: Jason Henning <huskers at cco.net>
Subject: Briess Malting Domestic Malts
Craig Rode <craig.rode at qmcin4.sdrc.com> asked about Briess Malting. I saw in
BT in the Craft Brewery Marketplace has a breif discription:
Briess Malting Company has announced the release of domestic pale ale
and two-row carmel malts (available in 40L, 60L, and 80L). Both malts are
from the Harrington barley variety grown in the Western United States
to provide brewers an alternative to imported malts. Brews are invited to
call 414/849-7711 (fax 414/849-4277) for samples or analyses. Briess
Malting Company, Chilton, Wisconsin.
Before you make the call, this ad was under the craft brewing section, not
the home brewer section.
Cheers,
Jason Henning (huskers at cco.net)
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"
There is nothing for a case of nerves like a case of beer - Joan Goldstein
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 11:40:35 +0100
From: johan.haggstrom at ped.gu.se
Subject: Foam color again
A while ago <torbjorn.bull-njaa at sds.no> posted a question regarding
foam color
>
Learned friends!
Can anybody help me with a simple explanation of the varying color of beer
foam? I notice that som dark beers have brownish colored foam, while
other, (seemingly) equally dark beers have white foam? Is it caused by
additives or just malt differences?
>
I have not seen any replies (maybe I've missed them).
Since I have been thinking about this myself I'll raise the question again.
Does anyone have a clue why the foam clolor is varying?
/Johan Haggstrom, Goteborg
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Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 08:17:51
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: hop survey
In HBD#2389, Dave Riedel asks about building a "pantry" of hops to last
several months.
I generally buy enough hops to cover most of my needs for an entire year.
My rationale is that hops only get picked once a year, and I can store them
at least as well as they'd be handled in a warehouse. I manage to cover an
amazing range of beers with only two (!) hop varieties, although I'll
occasionally buy small amounts of finishing hops for a particular beer that
wouldn't work with my main supply.
I use Perle to bitter essentially all my beers. I wanted something with
reasonably high %AA and good storage stability. A more educated palate
than mine might be able to tell that a non-traditional hop had been used to
bitter my British style beers, but *I* can't tell them apart. Unless you
use a super high %AA variety, I think it's very difficult to detect
differences in character of bittering hops. YMMV.
I'm pretty sure that Perle was originally bred to be a hardier German noble
hop. At any rate, I like the aroma and will often also use it for finishing
off an alt or other German style beer.
My other hop is usually E. Kent Goldings, used for finishing pale ales and
stouts. I had trouble getting it this year and went with Oregon Goldings.
I've been VERY happy with the Oregon version, possibly just because of the
freshness of a more locally grown hop.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:25:20 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at cam.org>
Subject: Mead Yeast for Beer?
Yeasties,
I was wondering if you could tell me what kind of results I might
get using Yeast Lab M61 and M62 (Mead Yeasts) to ferment beer? Are these
top fermenting yeasts? I would asume that M61 (Dry Mead) would be a good
candidate for Barley Wines and M62 for a British Pale Ale? What do you
think?
The reason I ask is that I've come accross a few vials recently
and I'm not a mead fan so I have all this extra yeast....
Denis
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 07:48:02 -0600
From: rjlee at mmm.com
Subject: Malt Analysis
I've had a sugestion that this might be of interest here.
Schreier DWC Minnesota Malting
2row special pils 2row 2row
pale
8/96 8/96 8/96 1997 1994
------------------------------------
moisture 4.0 3.5 3.0 4.1 4.5
Extract FG dry 81 81 82 81 80
F/C 1.5 1.5 2.0 1.4 1.8
color 1.6 3.6 1.5 1.8 1.8
Alpha Amylase 50 45 48 54 44
Sol. Protein 5.2 5.1 4.4 5.2 5.8
Tot. Protein 11.5 11.5 10.0 11.8 13.5
S/T 44.0 43.5 44.0 44.1 40-46
I don't have any for Breiss at this time.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:55:54 -0500 (EST)
From: ir358 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite)
Subject: Hop Profiles
Howdy Brew Crew,
I was picking up supplies and found this handy dandy hop profile
sheet put together by the folks at L.D. Carlson. I'm guessing
that many of you may not have access to it so I'll post a few
at a time over the next week or so.
Bullion-Domestic-Bittering
One of the earliest high alpha hops in the world. Raised in 1919
in England from a wild Manitoban female crossed with an English
male hop.
Alpha Acid: 6.5-9% Beta Acid: 3.2-4.7%
Aroma: Intense,black currant aroma, spicy and pungent.
Storage: 40-50%
Used for: Mainly bittering. Stouts and Dark ales.
Substitutions: Northern Brewer and Galena.
Cascade-Domestic-Finishing
Derived from a cross between fuggles and the Russian hop
Serebrianker.
Alpha Acid: 4.5-7% Beta Acid: 4.5-7%
Aroma: Pleasant, flowery and spicy, citrus-like.
Storage: 48-52%
Used For: Good for flavor and aroma, but an acceptable bittering
hop. Ales and lagers.
Substitutions: Centennial
Centennial-Domestic-Bittering
Newer variety still under experimentation. Cross between
Brewer's Gold and a selected USDA male.
Alpha Acid: 9.5-11.5% Beta Acid: 3.5-4.5%
Aroma: Medium with floral and citrus tones.
Storage: 60-65%
Used For: Aromatic but acceptable for bittering. Medium to Dark
American Ales.
Subs: Cascade
Challenger-Imported (UK)-All purpose
One of the few recognized all-purpose hops combining moderate
amounts of alpha acid with a good kettle aroma.
Alpha Acid: 7-10% Beta Acid: 4-4.5%
Aroma: Mild to Moderate, quite spicy.
Storage: 70-85%
Used For: Popular bittering hop used primarily in the UK.
British ales and lagers
Subs: Undetermined
There are 22 more, so stay tuned. Thanx again to the people
at L.D. Carlson for taking the time to put this together.
No affil. Happy Hopping everyone.
- --
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER!
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Date: 3 Apr 1997 08:58:22 -0500
From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Hydrometer Correction
Subject: Time:9:42 AM
OFFICE MEMO Hydrometer Correction Date:4/3/97
I tried that recent hydrometer correction formula and it didn't work that
well for me, was there a typo? I found an article on the brewery from Chris
Lyons which had another formula and that one worked for me. Recently I tried
my first partial mash and wanted to measure the SG which I expected to be
around 1.040 and I got 1.025. I estimate the temperature to be about 140F and
when I got out my hydrometer correction chart it stopped at 120F. I noticed
that this article gives gravity corrections for a large temperature range and
I was very happy to see a correction of 15 points at 140F. Here's the formula
from Chris Lyons (HBD#963), temperature in F and correction to add to the
measured SG is in points relative to 59F.
Corr = 1.323454 - 0.132674*T + 2.057793e-3*T^2 - 2.627634e-6*T^3
John Penn
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Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:34:06 +0000
From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com>
Subject: Pils malt vs. Lager malt
Greetings. I was thinking of making a nice pilsner in the future.
As I found out, my local supply shop can only obtain the Durst
malts in 1 pound or 55 pound packages. He can get almost anything
else in 10 pounds (I prefer this smaller size for storage). I
looked around and he did have English 2-Row Lager Malt. He says
this comes from Munton & Fison's. Now the question. How does
M&F Lager, compare to Durst Pilsner, D&C Pilsner, etc.? What
important differences exist. TIA.
Nathan in Frankenmuth MI
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Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:33:04 -0500
From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Subject: Cornmeal for ACP/Decoctions and Melanoidins
Hello all,
I would like to share some of my experiences with my first American
Classic Pilsner made using corn meal instead of flaked maize. IMO,
flaked maize is rediculously expensive for what it is, ... corn, so I
figured I would be just as well off using cooked cornmeal rather than
pre-gelatinized flaked maize.
My recipe called for ~ 29% (2.5 #) cornmeal in the grist, which is quite
high, but I wanted a more noticeable DMS or "corny" flavor, which was
absent in my first ACP attempt (22%). Perhaps the strong hop flavor &
aroma had something to do with that as well. I added ~3/4 lb of malt to
the cornmeal with ~ 1 qt water/lb + 1/2 tsp tartaric acid (to acidify a
bit). I heated to 155'ish, rested ~15 min, then brought to boiling, at
which point I added another 2 qts of water (~ .55 qt/lb) and boiled for
1 h. It looked and tasted like sweet polenta.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch: I mashed in the remaining ~ 5 # of malt
at 135 F for 30 min, then added the porridge to bring the temp to 153 F
(I had to cool a qt-or-so of the mush to 153 w/ice). I rested for 1 h
and sparged with 5 gal.
Sparging turned out to be the greatest challenge I faced. I had a great
deal of difficulty keeping the tiny remnant cornmeal granules from
getting past my slotted copper manifold. I had to recirculate my
runnings for ~ 1/2 h!! Even then I got some blow-by on occasion. This
effect may have been exacerbated by the small amount of malt (6#) in a
sparge system designed for 10-gal batches (48 qt cooler); so the grain
bed was probably not deep enough for good lautering. Tuesday's brewing
of 5 gal of a low-gravity porter (Blizzard Brown!) verifies this reason
for lautering difficulty. IMO, a braided SS mesh system, like the
EM(tm), would probably have been far less troublesome.
I FWH'ed with Tettnanger, followed by further Tettnanger and Saaz
additions at T-30 and 15 min. It is still in the primary now, so no
comment on the flavor.
One observation I did make was a great deal of cold break?? This was
not expected due to the low percentage of malt in the grist and the 30
min rest at 135 F. I HOPE it isn't starch haze that I am seeing. Only
time will tell, I guess. Any comments??
- ---
Regarding the decoction/melanoidins thread: Charles Rich's pressure
cooker experiment is very interesting. Great work Charles!! I used to
use a pressure cooker to can wort for yeast starters. I noticed the
resultant wort was always significantly darker after pressure canning
than before. However; I never thought to taste for additional malty
flavor. It sounds like a great way to get that extra malty kick for a
Maerzen or Vienna without resorting to super long mash-out decoctions
and/or boiling of the first runnings.
The only problem I have with using a pressure cooker for my decoctions
is the fact that it is made of aluminum. It is certainly large enough
to hold all the grain for a decoction, but I think I'll pass on the
Alzheimer's beer. Anyone have any suggestions??
TTFN
Russ Brodeur in Franklin, MA
mailto:r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:28:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot at PEAK.ORG>
Subject: competition announcement and call for judges
Heart of the Valley Homebrewers Present:
The 15th Annual
Oregon Homebrew
Competion and Festival
At the Oregon Trader Brewery
140 Hill Street NE
Albany, Oregon 97321
(Off Street Parking Available)
Saturday, May 10th
From 11 am to 5 pm
JUDGING FOR THE 24 RECOGNIZED AHA BEER STYLES
PLUS ALL THREE MEAD CATEGORIES
We are looking forward to continuing the tradition of this festival in its
fifteenth year as the longest running competition in the Pacific
Northwest! This years activities will include several displays, a raffle,
food concessions, and the opportunity to meet and talk with some of the
best and most experienced homebrewers anywhere!
Special guest speaker, Fred Eckhardt
Contact Jennifer Crum at bennyj at peak.org
or
Mark Taratoot at taratoot at peak.org
or
Visit our Web Site
http://www.peak.org/~taratoot/fest.html
for details!
- --
Mark Taratoot
taratoot at peak.org
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:57:41 -0600
From: cory at okway.okstate.edu (Cory Chadwell)
Subject: RE: Electric Immersion Chiller
Jim Elden asked About making a electric chiller since his water temp
is going up in the summer time and a immersion chiller won't be as
effective. Well I've never done anything like that but I did have the
same concern a while back. The way I got around the problem was to
make another chiller to place in my sink. I run a hose from the tap
to the sink chiller to a second hose to the immersion chiller to the
output hose. Before I start I run down to the local gas station and
get a couple of bags of ice and dump them in the sink with a little
water for even distribution. And presto chango my nice warm input
water is cooled sufficiently to chill my wort nicely. The setup is so
effective I often use it well into the warm fall and winter here is
sunny Oklahoma.
If your a gadget hound you'll probably go ahead and make some electric
beast. However as far as cost vs. return for me this has been the way
to go.
Later Cory :)
Black Cat White Stripe Homebrew
"It might smell like a skunk but I swear it's not!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:34:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7 at qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: partial extract and grain bags
ok, somewhat pursuant to another thread, i'm a bit curious as to doing
partial extracts. i'm told by a few sources that i can just put the
grains in a bag (aka tea bag) and steep for 5-30 min. the barley extract
is dry or liquid.
query:
1) do i steep before or after adding the extract?
2) is there any advantage to crushing/grinding/milling/
discombobulating the grains before steeping?
3) do i need to maintain the steeping at a certain temperature?
4) how long should i really steep?
5) can i do hops like this as well?
thanks, all.
private e-mail preferred, as i keep getting my HBD wiped from my account
by the mail demons who run my server... the files are just too big...
i'll post a summary and a kudos anon.
___________________________________________________________
This is Chris' signature:
C____ R__
&%
His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:55:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Re: small plate heat exchangers
i do recall seeing a small PHE from
alpha laval at a show. the big issue
with these types is that they do not come
apart for cleaning. they are fairly cheap
($150.00), and would benefit a high pressure
pump to do cip with a very strong caustic.
since they do not come apart, you may want to
insert some type of filter inline
to keep hop and break crud out...leaf hops
will get stuck(seeds and leafs) and are
a bitch to get out....
good luck
joe
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:57:25 -0500
From: pbrian at ctc-fund.com (Paul Brian)
Subject: warm fermentation
I just bottled one batch and then brewed another the next day.
Since it's still pretty chilly here in CT, I turned the heat on
in the (brew) basement to 68 deg. so bottle conditioning and
fermentation could take place. However, when I checked this
morning to see how things were going, the thermometer on the
fermenter read about 76-77 deg., and it sure was cranking along.
I know my beer isn't 'ruined' but I also know warm fermentation
produces some undesirable effects. What type of off flavors and/or
aromas should I expect?
Jim Booth and I seem to have opposite problems. He speculates that
his low fermentation temp. resulted in a high final gravity reading.
Should I expect a low reading because of my high fermentation temp.?
BTW, its an American Brown Ale with Wyeast American Ale II.
Cheers,
Paul Brian
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:16:14 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Big Apple Homebrew Competition, beds for volunteers
Hi all,
One last time, folks!
****THE BIG APPLE HOMEBREW COMPETITION****
sponsored by New York City's finest homebrew clubs:
The Malted Barley Appreciation Society and
The New York City Homebrewers Guild.
This year's contest will feature GARRETT OLIVER, head brewer of
Brooklyn Brewing Company as a special guest best-of-show judge!!!
The event will be held on April 12 at Milan, 1 East 36th Street in
Manhattan. Entries are due by April 10th. Call for a list of
drop-off/mail-in locations.
The Best of Show prize is a $100 gift certificate to the Homebrewery and
a day of brewing with Keith Symonds at The Westchester Brewing Co., White
Plains, NY.
Interested contestants should call Joanne Sagala at 212-583-4863 (day)
or Donna Bersani at 201-935-2067 (evening).
We also need stewards and judges!!!
Have fun!
George De Piro (President, Malted Barley Appreciation Society)
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:49 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject: dwc pale ale malt
collective homebrew conscience:
al k wrote:
>I find that DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale malt
>is far less modified than many *Pilsner* malts. When I use DWC Pale
>Ale malt, if I don't do a protein rest (I do it at 135 to 140F), I get
>a half-gallon of cold break in the fermenter! This is far too much, in
>my opinion and this is why I have taken to doing a protein rest with
>this malt whenever I use it.
dwc pale ale malt is really the main ale malt i use, and i've noticed a lot
of break material also. my infusion mashed ales this fall ended up with
trub in the bottles (no protein rest). this had something to do with my
impatience in the face of an upcoming competition, nonetheless i've never
before had trub in the bottles from beer that has been racked to secondary.
it was very cloudy at bottling, i admit. the flavor stability was terrible.
they held up about a month (did well at the comp., though).
i usually get at least a half gallon of trub in the settling tank when i *do*
do a protein rest, typically 30 minutes at 131 fahrenheit. this holds true
for both dwc pale ale and pilsner malts. am i the only one getting this
much cold/hot break for 5 gallon batches, with a protein rest? do the english
pale ale malts (baird, etc.) produce significantly less trub? i've only
used baird once on an old ale, and i don't remember how much break material
it produced.
i guess maybe it's cheaper for the maltsters to undermodify the malt. is this
true? i assume it would take less time. (time=$$$, etc.)
***********************
brian wrote:
> a question: does decoction offer lautering benefits when using mashes
>containing a relatively high (50 - 70%) proportion of malted wheat? given the
>discussion, if there's no lautering benefit, i may start experimenting with
>infusion mashed weizen . . . it would be nice to be able to chop a bit of time
>off the process.
i have read that decoction makes lautering easier for wheat beers. the boiling
gives you a head start on protein coagulation, and this makes the wort
easier to run off. i believe eric warner's book on german wheat beers
discusses this. if i'm not mistaken, he compares the viscosities of barley
mashes versus typical wheat beer mashes and the latter have higher viscosity,
which causes slower runoffs. there's an oxidation issue there also, if i
remember correctly. if you oxidize the mash liquor before running it off,
it runs off slower. decoction mashing is mentioned as an aid to the typical
wheat mash viscosity/runoff problem.
my experience has been this: when you decoction mash a beer, the mash in the
lauter tun, after settling for 20 minutes or so, will show a layer of "sludge"
on the top, anywhere from a quarter to about a half inch deep. if you
recirculate slowly and try as best you can not to wash this layer of sludge
through the mash bed, the wort will come out significantly clearer.
i used to run off the initial wort from the mash tun with the valve "wide
open" (read one of miller's books), and continued recirculating at a
fast flow rate. this caused the sludge to wash
through the grain bed and mix with the mash liquor. my grain bed was "set"
and ready to sparge much quicker (5 minutes or less), but the trade-off was
cloudier-than-necessary first runnings. now, i run off the first wort and
recirculate slowly and carefully (.25 to .5 quarts per minute), and the
resulting wort is clearer.
interestingly, if you read noonan's lager beer book ( the old one ), he
recommends some ridiculously slow rate for the initial runoff from the tun.
i never paid any mind to it before , but i believe now i'm more in line with his
thinking on the subject than i am with miller.
infusion mashed beers don't produce this "sludge", in my experience. they
don't produce as clear a wort, either.
************************
matt wrote:
>I'm trying to find Zum Uerige (sp?) or the like <snip>
has anybody seen any of the dusseldorfer altbiers over here? what about
kolsch? i hate not having these genuine german beers available as reference
beers (even if they are stale by the time they get here).
*************
dave wrote:
>1. Is the bitterness produced (for a set IBU level) by different hops
>significantly different? If so, in what way?
in my experience, the choice of bittering hops can make a big difference in
the flavor of the beer, even at (close to) the same ibu levels. i tend to
prefer low alpha hops for at least some of the bittering, if not for all of
it, for highly hopped beers that contain high bitterness, flavor, and aroma.
i find that high alpha hops give a bitterness that "sticks out" in the
flavor profile. it's a very aggressive bitterness, clean and sharp. the
low alpha bittering tends to blend better with the hop flavor and aroma.
try brewing a czech pils and use a high alpha variety (galena, etc.) for all
the bittering. i guarantee you that 40 ibu's of galena tastes *nothing* like
40 ibu's of saaz or hallertauer.
brew hard,
mark bayer
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Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:14:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com>
Subject: Chuckle in Liquor Store
Over the weekend I saw a new (to me) beer in the store made
by Leinenkugel (sp?)...a doublebock called "BIG BUTT"!
Label has two rams butting racks, but I think the name
may be related to the brewer's gut growth issue:)
Of course I had to buy this beer. Tastes good but IMO it is
too light in body and in maltiness. Not bad though overall.
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, (v.) Ltd.
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 97 15:55 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Online Malt Analysis - so what...
I decided to try and use the malt analysis posted on the WWW to try and see
the differences between the Pale and Pale Ale malts. Take a look for
yourselves at
httP://www.brewsupply.com/gamesb.htm (Gambrinus ESB Malt)
http://www.brewsupply.com/gampale.htm (Gambrinus Pale Malt)
The Pale page refers to the malt as a "Pilsner" type of malt.
The ONLY difference between the two analyses is the Color rating. All the
protein and Kolbach ratings are IDENTICAL. Appears to me that this is
another waste of our time and an attempt to market to us without providing
any really useful information. Am I interpreting incorrectly?
Comments?
Charley, Frustrated in Northern California
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:01:51 +0930
From: Stephen Neate <Stephen.Neate at adl.soils.csiro.au>
Subject: re:Shorter brew day
I get a bit nervous when people say that they can store wort overnight or
longer without bacterial contamination.
While doing my PhD I thought I could cut corners and twice tried before
autoclaving to store overnight at room temperature a liquid growth medium
made with salts, sugars, yeast extract and distilled water. The medium was
perfectly clear in the afternoon, but both times next morning a slight
bacterial haze could be seen. Still wishing to cut corners, I found that
storage at 5 C allowed me to store the medium for 15 or so hours without
bacterial development.
Would the same happen in wort and if it did would a small bacterial growth
affect the taste of the subsequent beer considering it will be later killed
by boiling? I dont know the answers but it is worth considering.
Stephen Neate
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 22:12:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at monarch.papillion.ne.us>
Subject: Re: History of Styrian Goldings
In HBD #2388 Daniel Juliano wrote:
>In Mark Garetz's book _Using Hops_ he says that Styrian Goldings
>originated from English Fuggles, and that they are therefore not Goldings
>at all. In George & Laurie Fix's VOM book they state that English (Kent)
>Goldings came from Styrian Goldings. Does anybody know the definitive
>history of Styrian Goldings, and how this variety is related to English
>Goldings and/or Fuggles?
In the Hop Article in Brewing Techniques by Don Van Valkenburg, Sep/Oct 95,
the chart shows "Fuggles 1875 (aka Styrian Goldings or Savinja Goldings)."
The text says "The Fuggle hop was fiorst noticed as a seedling growing in
the garden of George Stace's house in Horsmonden, Kent, and was introduced
by Richard Fuggle in 1875...The Eurpopean Fuggle grown in the former
Yugoslavia is actually marketed as Styrian (Savinja) Goldings, as a result
of a case of mistaken identity in the 1930s." This article uses 11
references including "The Parentage of English Hop Varieties" by Gerald
Lemmens, 1995. If everything in here is correct, then these are the same
hop, just grown in differing locations, with differing climates and soil
conditions possibly leading to slightly differing results.
- ----Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.---
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 97 13:14:53 JST
From: hoshido at gman.rme.sony.co.jp (Mutsuo Hoshido)
Subject: How to homebrew Natto(Fermented soy beans)
Natto(fermented soy-beans) is one of many very healthy,nutritious ,
economical foods,which is now receiving much better appreciation.
Tofu (soy-bean cake) and Tonyu (soy-bean milk) are easy to make at home
and became very popular all over the world. When we make them at home,
we will get a lot of solid remainings which are also nutritious.
(We can make by solidifying Tonyu(soy-bean milk) using a small amount
of magnesium chloride.)
Somtimes we will feel somewhat troublesome to cook and eat such a big
amount of eatable remainings.
Natto is very simple to homebrew using your cooking tools.
If you keep your cooked soy-beans mixed with natto-kin at 104deg F
(40deg C) for 24 hours,you can get very nutritious,preservable,fermented
soy-beens. (I am afraid that somebody hates the smell and stickiness of Natto.)
Natto had been my favorite food and I hadn't known how to homebrew it,
until my American homebrew friend,Mr.Jim Caldwel,taught me the method
by sending Japanese made natto-kin.
I imported one of Japanese basic cultures from the USA and now enjoying
homebewing natto for my healty life together with healty my own beers.
Following is my simple procedure.
Materials:
Soy-beans,1lb(454g)
Natto-kin,dry0.035oz(1g) or commercial natto 0.7oz(20g)
(Natto-kin is very strong and alive even in a very hot water.
Use of Natto-kin is much recommendded.)
Equipment:
Steam cooker (Pressure steam cooker is much easier to cook soy-beans).
Basket to drain water.
Stainless steel bowl or tray,(equivalent plastic or glass container is usable)
Big spoon to mix natto-kin
Picnic cooler box or equivalent
Big plastic empty bottles (half gal.):4 pieces.
Procedure:
1. Wash and soak the 1lb(454g) of soy-beans for about 24 hours.
During the hot summer, 10 hours will be enough.
2. Steam cook the soy-beans at least 3 hours so that the cooked soy-beans
can be easily crushed by weak finger pressure between thumb and pinky.
3. Cool down the cooked soy-beans 122degF(50degC). Put the soy-beans
into a stainless steel bowl,add 0.035oz(1g) of natto-kin solved in
0.013gal(50cc) hot water and mix them well.
4. Put the bowl in a picnic cooler box together with 113degF (45degC) warm
water bottles to keep the inside at 104degF (40degF) for 24 hours.
The amount of the warm water will preferably be at least 2 gal(8 liters).
You can divide these soy-bean mixture into smaller containers with lids.
During fermentaion, natto needs enough air so put them in a picnic cooler
box without lids.
During fermentaion,the natto-kin generates heat to grow. It is rather e
asier
to maintain the fermentaion temperature at 104deg F(40deg C),although
we don't use any electric heater.
If necessary, change the warm water to keep the temperature constant.
I used a digital thermister thermometer to measure the temperature inside.
It is very useful.
5. In 24 hours,you can get fermented soy-been,natto.
6. Now you can eat it. If you keep your natto in your refrigerator for a week
you can get matured and improved tasty natto.
How to eat natto:
Take an eatable amount into a small container and stur it so that you can
get strong stickiness. Then further mix small amount of soy-sauce ,mustard
and sliced leeks. If you eat natto together with a hot rice,it will be very
tasty.
Of course you can use your natto as a material for various type of cookings,
such as omelet,tempura,sushi,sandwich and so on.
How to get natto-kin:
G.E.M. Cultures
30301 Sherwood Rd., Fort Bragg, CA 95437
Phone: 707-964-2922
Kushi Institute Store
Toll-Free: 1-800-64-KUSHI (1-800-645-8744)
e-mail: store at macrobiotics.org
Yuzo Takahashi Laboratory
2-1-7 Youka-machi Yamagata-shi
Yamagata-ken , Japan #990
Phone: +81-236-22-4001
Fax: +81-236-22-4002
Naruse Fermentation Laboratory
2-18-7 Nerima Nerima-ku
Tokyo, Japan #176
Phone: +81-3-3994-3939
I hope you are successful.
Mutsuo Hoshido
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 07:50:15 -0500
From: William Lau </I=WT/G=William/S=Lau/OU=UNVAXC/ at ZENECA.tmailuk.sprint.com> (Tel 3024534948 )
Subject: To Randy Reed re: Better hear transfer w/sanke kegs
I have recently been involved with building a 30 gal. RIMS system
where we encountered extensive times boiling in a 40 gal. s/s
pot. We needed to cut down the time required to reach boiling.
We accomplished this by adding a sheet metal skirt (we used 20"
aluminum flashing) to "trap" the flame/heat from the propane
burner. We fashioned our skirt as a cone that wraps around the
pot and extends about 2-3" below the bottom of the pot. We
reduced our heating times by at least 20%.
Bill Lau (Glassboro, NJ)
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 09:04:50 -0500
From: "Adam Rich" <ar at crocus.medicine.rochester.edu>
Subject: haze question
Hi Everyone,
I have a problem with chill haze and it seems to occur in nearly all of my
ales. I now wonder if it is due to my mash procedure? I brew all-grain
and usually, almost always, do a single-step infusion mash. I like English
Ales (Bitters, ESB, and occasionally an American or India Pale Ale) and
typically mash-in around 158 F. I do this to get the most body possible
since I enjoy full-bodied beers and also because it seemed like 'lacks
body' was always a criticism in competitions. To mash-out I merely begin
to sparge and add boiling water to the top of my 5 gallon Gott cooler.
Lately I have reduced the temperature of the sparge water to 170 or 180 F
thinking that this might be contributing to the haze. There was no effect.
I boil for 60-75 minutes, sometimes add Irish Moss at 45 minutes
(rehydrated of course) and then use a counterflow chiller. I do not remove
cold break, or hot break for that matter. I transfer to a secondary, thus
leaving behind some trub and hop pellets, in 3-6 days. Then another week
in the secondary and bottle.
I don't think that it is starch because Iodine tests, when I do them, are
OK. And mashing for 75 minutes would seem to be more then long enough
according to what I read for 'modern' malt.
By the way, why is there all of the concern with Malt specifications?
Isn't it agreed that all malt, now, is "modern"? Therefore the protein
rests are not necessary? And, if you really are concerned can't you just
'do' a low-temp protein rest and then proceed as normal? I did not think
that this would alter the profile of the final product. maybe it alters
the protein content since some HMW proteins get an opportunity to be
chopped up?
thanks,
Adam
Adam Rich, PhD
Dept. of Dental Research
University of Rochester, Rochester, NY
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 09:48:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Bruce Johnson <brucej at arches.uga.edu>
Subject: Harp recipe??
Does anyone out there have a good recipe for a Harp clone? A friend of
mine tried one from Cat's Meow, but it wasn't really close. Private email
ok. Thanks in advance.
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can
free our minds." ... Bob Marley.
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:17:43 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: RE: Infusion mashing for 4 hours / Thanks, Charlie
Hi all,
Mark wonders what would happen to his efficiency if he infusion mashed
for four hours (as long as a decoction takes). In my experience,
you'll just have a mash full of denatured enzymes. I don't think that
they'll survive that long at saccharification temps, so you won't
increase efficiency. I know this because in my early days I used to
get disappointingly low gravities and tried mashing longer or
decocting on the fly to improve efficiency. This never worked.
What did work was buying a mill and crushing my own grain. The other
big improvement came when I realized that the shop I was purchasing my
grain from was using a bathroom scale to weigh it out, and I was
getting shorted every time!!! There I was, blaming my water, my pH,
and myself for poor extraction when it was in fact caused by an
inaccurate scale!
I don't buy grain there anymore...
--------------------------------------------------
Charlie S. posted a great article about Maillard reactions, etc. I
just wanted to say "thanks!"
Have fun!
George De Piro
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 97 11:09:03 EDT
From: "Ellery.Samuels" <esamuel at mvsb.nycenet.edu>
Subject: Brew Dogs
I don't understand what the brewhaha is about these dogs as it's obvious the
MUTT is the only true brew dog. Just like homebrews there are more varieties
than you can shake a racking cane at.
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