---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Outatown, Spores, New beer wooziness, superheated beer ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Claening enamel pots with soap (neumbg73)
  Hop Growing (Dean Mueller)
  Brew Pubs in Ft. Wayne, Indiana (Jonathon Betterley)
  Gambrinus Honey Malt (Steve)
  corn, corn, chicken and corn! (DAVE SAPSIS)
  Nitrogen and Stout ("Peter Touborg")
  na beer (Rae Christopher J)
  Water for a Wit Bier ("Lorena Barquin Sanchez")
  flavoring with apples (smurman)
  Priming NA beer (Brett Anthony Shorten)
  RE:No- and Low-Alcohol Brewin (Kit Anderson)
  bottle pressure ("Arnold J. Neitzke")
  Pabst Blue Ribbon, trendy exotic beer, trounces micros. (Art Steinmetz)
  Alcohol Determination with Limited Equipment: (TheTHP)
  Trub (Aaron Kelley)
  re: desserts (Charles Burns)
  Re: Brewpubs in Indianapolis, IN ("Kirk Johnson")
  Rye (korz)
  Re: Brewtap? (korz)
  Need some help in Memphis ("Dave Draper")
  Adding "shit" to beer (George De Piro)
  oops ("Aaron Herrick")
  Web pages back online ("Dave Draper")
  Old beer book value (Sean Mick)
  two quick tips - floating thermometer and bottling (Hal Davis)
  BREWPUBS/BREWERYS/FESTIVELS ("Jeff L. Foley")
  Valley Mill (Chris Dodge)
  Chris McAtee) Subject: POLAR WARE STAINLESS SPOON (AlannnnT)
  RE:  Hops Growing Question. (Richard Gardner)


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  brew.oeonline.com 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at brew.oeonline.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received. If you have
  "spam-proofed" your reply address, you *WILL NOT* received an 
  acknowledgement from the autoresponder.)

To SUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message to homebrew-request@ brew.oeonline.com
  containing the word "subscribe", without the quotes, in the body of the
  message. NOTE that if you have "spam-proofed" your reply address,  your
  subscribe request *WILL NOT* be successful!
To UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "unsubscribe", 
  without the quotes to homebrew-request@ brew.oeonline.com.
  NOTE that if you have "spam-proofed" your reply address, your 
  unsubscribe request *WILL NOT* be successful!
BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver
  (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), you must unsubscribe by sending a one line e-mail
  to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L

Thanks to those who have made the Homebrew Digest what it is. Visit the 
  HBD Hall of Fame at http://hbd.org

If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org

ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp from:
	
	brew.oeonline.com	/pub/hbd	
	ftp.stanford.edu	/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  AFS users can find it under

	 /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail 
  using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about 
  this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with 
  the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@ brew.oeonline.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:36:03 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Outatown, Spores, New beer wooziness, superheated beer

Brewsters:

I'll be outatown until 21 May, so I'm not ignoring private e-mail. I'll
catch up when I get back.
- -----------------------------------------
Mark Ellis provides his 2 cents worth on Botulism. 

> I would throw in my 2 cents worth as I work for a
>Pathology company and I went and had a chat with one of our
>microbiologists.

 What followed was a discussion of what kills Clostridium - botulism
causing bacteria

 The problem is not the bacteria which are pretty easily killed as you
indicated, but the *spores* of the bacteria  which are stable to
non-pressure cooking temperatures for a long time. I recommend you always
boil any wort you have canned before you use it to be sure any potential
toxin is destroyed. I really suggest you just use dried or liquid malt
extract for your starters.
- ----------------------------------
Jon Yusko says:

My hop plants are now about 1 1/2 feet high and I need to create a 
Trellis for them to grow upward. I am not sure what type of wire, 
String, etc to use that won't damage the vine but will also sustain 
The weight of the heavy vines. 
                                           
The most important thing is that once the hops get fully grown ( about 18
 -20 feet high) that they can withstand a strong wind. Imagine if you had a
sail the size of your hop garden what it would take to keep it stable in a
strong wind.  A set of strong supports - say telephone poles or such if you
planted a lot or a teepee of three smaller sized poles, with wire supports,
as the end supports will help keep the whole thing from falling over.  Also
at the top, use a very heavy braided wire to support the various twine
streamers up which the hop vines will climb.  I put mine up against my
three story house, despite the lack of full sunshine, to prevent this
possibility and to avoid the major construction effort. Besides it is
prettier.

Use heavy twine for the streamers as you will be cutting the vines down in
the fall by cutting the streamers at the top and pick the hops from the
vines while you are standing on the ground. Even if you multiple crop the
hops, by allowing more vines to develop after June and therefore pick  from
a ladder most of the season,  you will still cut the vines down in the
fall. . In the early part of the season cut back the vines to three or four
per streamer, so they can develop well without self competition and
producing a lot of vines with no product. Water well during the growth
period, mulch them and give them plenty of fertilizer and well rotted
manure. 

Some people pick off the lower six feet of leaves after the vine is grown
in the belief that this reduces mildew, by preventing it from spreading up
from the ground.  Use a Bordeaux mixture or the like early in the season,
but give it plenty of time to dissipate before you pick. Yeasts don't like
copper or other fungicides in your beer and neither will you. Water early
in the morning and never in the evening to reduce mildew possibility.      
                  
- ----------------------------------------------------
Kevin Kanes' textbook answer and other comments relating to the higher hop
and alcohol content in homebrew  do not answer the question first posed by
someone here about "fresh" beer having a quicker effect than that same beer
drunk some weeks later.

I too have noticed that a new keg often produces a quick wooziness in a
very short time on the order of 10 minutes, almost like a change in blood
pressure effect or that first puff on a pipe (tobacco!),  not really
connected with the alcohol content, but could be mistaken for it.  Since,
in most cases, I lager in the presence of yeast, the first beers are really
in a totally reduced state and may contain compounds that get oxidized over
time from the carbonation of the beer, by leaky hose fittings, etc. Or they
peak out and decline naturally with time. 

Another datapoint is that this occurs to nearly all drinkers at the same
session, yet in a few weeks the same drinkers do not experience this effect
with the same beer.  This could argue that it is food or atmosphere
related, but I really do not believe these can adequately explain all the
manifestations of the effect, especially the quick hit nature that has
drinkers saying "Wow, this is strong!"..

I don't know, but I can vouch that I and a number of others here have found
this time/age dependent effect of beer which obviously does not relate to
the alcohol or hops content, both of which are constant in any given beer
over time.
- ---------------------------------------------------
M Cert says:

>Yesterday I used my new coverted 15.5gl kettle for the first time and I
had a
>problem.

>Everything was fine until I put in my immersion chiller.  I left to do
>something else and my 8gl batch boiled over.

>What could have caused it?

You forgot to turn off the burner?? {8^)

Actually it may have been superheated on the bottom because it was deep and
clean and new and you provided a surface for the steam bubbles to form onto
when you put the chiller into it. Probably after you use this a few times,
scratches in the kettle will prevent this from happening.  I suggest you 
remove it from the burner and carefully stir the wort before you add the
chiller in the future.
- ---------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  
Voice e-mail OK 

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 11:48:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: neumbg73 at snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu
Subject: Re: Claening enamel pots with soap


Robert Ruderman wrote about enamel pots:
> 
> I know I am not supposed to use soaps with the pots for cleaning (I have
> been using a pad for teflon pots without soap for cleanings)


uhh oh, I sometimes use a mild dish soap or some "bon-ami" to clean my
enamel-on pot. Is this bad? If so, why?

bernie neumann  neumbg73 at oneonta.edu
KB2EBE 

"The Secret Caverns Pico Brewery"
Secret Caverns, NY



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 11:38:45 -0700
From: Dean Mueller <dean at broadcom.com>
Subject: Hop Growing

>My hop plants are now about 1 1/2 feet high and I need to create a 
>trellis for them to grow upward. I am not sure what type of wire, 
>string, etc to use that won't damage the vine but will also sustain 
>the weight of the heavy vines.  I talked to a local gardening rep, 
>and he said not to use wire since it will cut into vines.  True?
>
>Any feedback or previous experience would be appreciated. 


You should set up a couple poles and run wire between them at
least 12ft high. This wire is what really holds most of the weight.
Put a steak in the ground near the base of each bunch. If you
run Vs from the wire to each steak  with twine it will work great.
I let 2 or 3 vines run up each leg of the V and cut all others
to the ground.

The hops will wrap around the twine and climb as high as they can.
(They always outgrow my 12ft wires, 15ft is better). I have never had
the twine break. Cut the twine down each season and harvest your
buds.

good luck,
dean

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 06 May 97 12:19:00 PDT
From: Jonathon Betterley <jonb at stellar.com>
Subject: Brew Pubs in Ft. Wayne, Indiana


I will be visiting the Ft. Wayne area towards the end of May. I have   
looked for information on Brew Pubs there and couldn't find. I am hoping   
that there is at least one establishment there that might be able to   
quench my thirst while I am there. If anyone knows of a place could you   
please advise.
Thanks,
JonB at Stellar.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:16:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve <JOHNSONS at UANSV5.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Gambrinus Honey Malt

Members of our homebrew club have an offer to get some whole malts from one of
our local microbreweries.  He has been using a new Gambrinus brand malt 
called Honey Malt.  It is apparently a pale malt.  Have any of the collective
used this malt in any homebrewing recipes, and care to comment on how they
turned out?  The brewer didn't tell us specifically which beers and what
proportion of the malt bill he was using this malt in, but he really liked it.
Four of our club members visited the brewery last week and had a round of
samplers of his current beers, and although good beers, they were for the most
part very similar in flavor and malt profile, except for some slight variations
in color and hop varieties/amounts.  Private e-mail is fine, or a post here
for others who might be interested.

Steve Johnson
Music City Brewers,
Nashville, TN

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:20:54 -0700
From: DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov (DAVE SAPSIS)
Subject: corn, corn, chicken and corn!

     Just to follow up on Jeff's excellent post on the use of corn:  I have 
     been using polenta in place of flaked corn or grits or meal for about 
     six years.  All polenta is is coarse corn meal, but the size of the 
     grits appear to be about 5 times that of the boxed corn meal.  Polenta 
     does come in a number of renditions: basic, quick, and prepared (that 
     stuff in the funky tube).  The quick stuff is similar to quick oats in 
     that it has been largely pregelatinized, presumably by steam.  I 
     always use the basic stuff, available in bulk from most coops and the 
     like.  It is cheap, and works well.  It does require a true cereal 
     cook, but hey, thats part of the fun.  Polenta is also quite good 
     outside of beer -- See the Greens cookbook for a keeper.
     
     In addition to the wonderful CAP style that Jeff almost single 
     handedly ressurected, corn is also most welcome in Cream Ales.  Wahl 
     Henius have ratios on the order of 20% - 25%, and that seems to work 
     well.  Another endemic style that has drifted toward lackluster 
     flavor, but it doesnt have to be so.
     
     cheers,
     --dave, in Sacramento, 87F outside, cream ale inside (fridge)

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 5 May 97 22:18:37 UT
From: "Peter Touborg" <vanfunk at msn.com>
Subject: Nitrogen and Stout

Just to add a few particulars to the nitrogen thread-
Part of the reason that a dispense with nitrogen at high pressure (through an 
appropriate restrictor plate, such as on a Guinness tap) yields such a tight, 
heavenly head is precisely because it is not very soluble in beer. Those teeny 
little bubbles form, as we know, with a mixture of N2 and CO2 inside. Once 
formed, the bubbles tend to maintain their integrity because the N2 is 
reluctant to migrate out of its liquid shell and into other bubbles. This 
process of disproportionation consequently happens at a slow rate. Other 
factors obviously play a role, beta-glucans, etc. but this piece seems to be 
key.

Peter Touborg
Fork and Firkin Homebrewery
Winthrop, MA     vanfunk at msn.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:13:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7 at qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: na beer

someone wrote in about brewing no- alcohol beer.  can't help you in how 
to make it, but here's how to tell if you've done it right:
ok, this is simple, but requires precision.  
1. take the sg of the beer (with proper temperature conversions), call
that sg1
2. measure _exactly_ one pint of beer, flat.
3. in a glass or enamel pan, _boil_ to about 1/2 pint.  this will boil off
_all_ the etoh.
4. with distilled water, top it off to exactly one pine again.  do not
use tap water.
5. cool the sample.
6. read the sg, and convert for current temperature.  call that sg2
7. subtract sg2 from sg1.  this is the "spirit indication"
8. spirit indication		alcohol (% by volume)
	0			0
	1.5			1
	2			1.3
	3			2
	4			2.7
	5			3.4
etc.  sorry, but this was adapted from _the art of wine_ by anderson and
hull, 1971, so no data on how to get .5%

on a side note, re:relapse... from a medical perspective, and being from a
family of alcoholism... .5% is not acceptable.  abstinence is.  that
means
0%.  i'll get off my horse now.

 ___________________________________________________________
This is Chris' signature:

C____ R__
    &%

 His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:04:10 -0400
From: "Lorena Barquin Sanchez" <mbarquin at telcel.net.ve>
Subject: Water for a Wit Bier

Gentlemen:

Although there are several books that indicate the typical  dissolved
solids and pH of various cities water for particular beer styles, I am
looking for that of a wit bier and have not been lucky.  Can anyone help? 
I am particularly interested in Hoegaardens type water.

Thanks
Lorenzo Barquin
Venezuela

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:27:10 -0700
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: flavoring with apples


I'm getting ready to brew a sour apple weisse beer, and I was looking
for some feedback on my method of extracting the apple flavor.  I was
figuring on using about 5 lbs. of baking apples, cored and sliced, and
freezing them to burst the cell walls.  At the end of the boil I was
going to add the now room temperature apple fragments to the hot wort.
This should be enough to drop the temperature of the whole shebang to
about 170F, which will eliminate the pectin problem.  While the apples
steep, I'll be chilling the wort with my immersion chiller.  This
usually takes about 30 minutes, so that's how long the apples will
steep.  After that I'll rack to the primary, and use the spent,
sugar-coated apples to make apple pies.

Does this seem like it will generate enough of an apple flavor?  The
beer will be pretty light (a 1.040 weisse beer), so too much flavor
would be overwhelming, but I'm concerned I'll go through all this
trouble and end up with no apple taste.

Would it make more sense to use a "100% pure apple juice" rather than
going through the whole steeping business?

SM



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:08:27 +1000 (EST)
From: Brett Anthony Shorten <bas08 at uow.edu.au>
Subject: Priming NA beer

  I am about to try making a small batch of NA beer, by the method of
heating to 180F, holding 15-30 mins, cooling, and bottling with fresh yeast
and priming sugar.
  My question has to do with how much priming sugar to use. I usually use
the well-known calculations attributed to Dave Draper and others to
calculate priming sugar by weight. For this NA beer, should I assume that
all CO2 has been driven off by the alcohol-reducing process, or would there
still be some CO2 in the beer?
Brett Shorten
Wollongong, NSW
Australia

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:18:23 -0400
From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com>
Subject: RE:No- and Low-Alcohol Brewin

I was thinking about this NA beer stuff. Is it possible to put the beer in a
vacuum and evaporate the alcohol without heating it? I am guessing that the
vapor pressure of ETOH is less than H2O and that you could do a low
temperature ETOH reduction.

But I could be wrong. 

If you could actually do this, the taste would be off as alcohol adds a
warming feeling to the palate. I would think that a small amount of cayenne
pepper might replace this.

- ---
Kit Anderson			"Welcome to Northeast Texas-
Bath, Maine			a survival guide for Texans in New England"
				http://members.aol.com/garhow1/kit/index.htm

Maine Beer Page			http://www.maine.com/brew	
				


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:27:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arnold J. Neitzke" <neitzkea at FRC.COM>
Subject: bottle pressure 

Hi all

I was wondering if anybody knows what the pressure is in a typical bottle 
of beer and at what pressure a bottle will blow up?

No I haven't had any blow up yet, but I did have a very carbonated one 
come out the top when I opened it :-0

Fortunatly I was over the sink at the time (I usually am just in case).

Arnold J. Neitzke                         Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com
Brighton, Mi                          CEO of the NightSky brewing Company


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 08:35:11 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: Pabst Blue Ribbon, trendy exotic beer, trounces micros.

"But the people who enjoy drinking good beer can now drink it at home and
for far less the cost of getting it at the local brew pub. No need to go to
a microbrewery when the deli is carrying your favorite beer "right
next to the cold cuts and Hostess cupcakes..."

'One microbrewer said that the best concept for a bar these days was "a
trendy shot and beer bar, specializing in Schaefer and Pabst Blue Ribbon
beers." '

'Joe Quattrocchi, an owner of the 250-seat Commonwealth Brewery in
Rockefeller Center,
          would not take it to that extreme, but he said that a backlash
may be coming. Quattrocchi,
          who opened his brewery in July, admitted that he has a bit of the
backlash in himself. "I
          drink Rolling Rock and Budweiser," he said. '

http://www.nytimes.com

If you're not already registered it's free to U.S. customers.  Do a search
on "microbrewery" in today's edition.


- -- Art
asteinm at pipeline.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:10:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: TheTHP at aol.com
Subject: Alcohol Determination with Limited Equipment:

Dear all,

I knew who to ask on this one, My namesake. He was an amatur wine maker for
25+ years before he took a golden parachute from AMOCO to do it full time. So
please don't confuse Enologist-Phil with Zymurgist-Phil of the Poison Frog
Home Brewery.

Enologist-Phil Writes:

The following procedure was used by an advanced winemaker friend that did not
have distillation apparatus or specialized equipment.

In order to use this procedure, one needs an accurate thermometer, volumetric
flask,  hydrometer jar, and narrow range hydrometer calibrated in specific
gravity.  First adjust the temperature of the near beer to 60 degrees F.
 Next pour the sample into a hydrometer jar and measure the specific gravity.
 Then transfer enouth of the sample to fill a volumetric flask of adequate
size.  Then transfer contents tents of the volumetric flask to a pan, taking
care to rinse the with clear water so that all the beer solution  is in the
pan.  Next heat the solution to a slow boil and boil off enough volume so
that there is less than the initial volume remaining.  Next return the boiled
volume to the volumetric flask,  return to 60 degrees F, and make up the lost
volume so that now have the same volume as started with, all at 60 degrees F.
 Next transfer contents to a hydrometer jar and measure the specific gravity.
 Measure the change in specific gravity, as only alcohol is presumed to have
evaporated.  The following change in specific gravities relate to per cent
alcohol.  No change is 0%,  an increase of .0015 corresponds to an alcohol of
1%, an increase of .0030 is an alcohol of 2%, an increase of .0044
corresponds to 3%, etc.  You get the idea.  At this low concentration every
increase in specific gravity of about .0075 corresponds to 0.5% alcohol.
There are more accurate methods available, but they require quite a bit of
equipment.  The easiest method is with an eulliometer.  As a winery
consultant I could run this test as a modest fee, if desired.
Good luck with your work.  Commercially, the alcohol is eliminated with
reverse osmosis.  The temperature in not elevated and so there is not much
deterioration in beer character.  Another possibility might be to carbonate
the wort and bottle it directly.  In that case there would not be any
alcohol.  Or bottle the wort with only enough sugar to give say 1/2% alcohol.

Phil-The Enologist  Enologist at aol.com

Phil-The Zymurgist doesnt recommend the last sentence. Making a wort with
only enough sugar to make 1/2% alcohol is pretty thin beer. This might result
in making budmilloors look and taste quite good in comparison. and we wouldnt
want that to happen....;<)  

Please feel free to respond directly to Enologist at aol.com as he is not a HBD
Subscriber.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:47:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Aaron Kelley <akelley at cems.umn.edu>
Subject: Trub

I am curious what precautions all of you take to eliminate trub from your 
primary fermentors.  Dave Miller recommends racking your beer off of the 
trub a couple of hours after it has been in the carboy and the trub has 
settled.  He further comments that compounds found in trub can lead to 
fusel alcohols in your beer.  One article in Zymurgy on the subject said 
the presence of trub can also lead to long term instability in your beer.

My comments:

1)  I have found that it takes about 12 hrs for all of the trub to settle 
in my primary.  Try as I might, I have not been able to keep it from 
getting in there in the first place.  I filter my wort with a very fine 
nylon filter, but much of it passes through.

2)  Can I wait until the next morning to rack off of the trub?  What are 
the risks of reintroducing oxygen at this stage?  I believe the yeast 
would be in exponential phase at this stage and a small amount of oxygen 
should not be a problem.  Certainly not any more than normal racking to 
secondary fermentation.

3)  Does the benefit of removing trub outweigh the risk of increased 
contamination?

4)  Am I worrying too much about trub?

Just trying to improve my beers,

Aaron Kelley
akelley at cems.umn.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 09:14:36 -0700
From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: re: desserts

Ghiardelli(sp?) Dark Chocolate bar in left hand.
Pint of Espresso Stout in right hand.
Alternate a bite with a swig.
Doesn't get much better.

Alternate: substitute Grand Marnier truffle for chocolate bar.

Charley

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 07 May 97 09:46:08 GMT
From: "Kirk Johnson" <johnsonk at fhu.disa.mil>
Subject: Re: Brewpubs in Indianapolis, IN

     I was in Indianapolis, IN last week and had a chance to try the Broad 
     Ripple Brewpub on the North side of Indianapolis.  It is a great local 
     brewpub with excellent beer.  Broad Ripple has a comfortable 
     neighborhood pub atmosphere.  They had 6 beers on tap (descriptions 
     below) and a number of guest beers. Like a good Homebrewer, I ordered 
     the sampler to get a taste of them all!  My favorites (in order) were 
     ESB, IPA, Porter, and Red Bird Mild.  The Lawnmower Pale Ale and White 
     River Wheat were average. 
     
     Lawnmower Pale Ale - Clean beer with little character, don't care for  
     light ales much
     Red Bird Mild - Good balance of malt and English hops; great session 
     beer
     ESB - Excellent beer, good English hop character, slight smoke flavor
     White River Wheat - Average wheat beer, could use more clove phenolics
     Monon Porter - Nice rich porter, slightly sweet
     Indiana Pale Ale (IPA) - Good malt flavor and body, nice wall of 
     bitterness, could use dry hopping
     
     I did not have a chance to visit Alcatraz or Circle V, but will try 
     them next time ;}  Kirk Johnson
     
     
     >I will be heading out to Indianapolis next week and anticipate a few 
     >hours in the afternoon to partake of the local brewpub scene.  I am 
     >considering a visit to the Alcatraz Brewing Co, or one of the Circle 
     >V pubs.  Has anyone been to either of these?  Any recommendations/ 
     >descriptions?  Private email is fine.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:51:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Rye

Jason writes:
>Work through another recipe and I'll make a point about 
>pt/lb/g vs mash efficiency.
> 
>5.5 lb American Rye (30)
>2.75 lb Lager malt (six-row) (31)
>5 gallons of 1.045
> 
>Pt/lb/g -> 45*5 / (5.5+2.75) = 27.3 -> 27 pt/lb/g
>Mash efficiency -> (5*45) / [ (30*5.5) + (2.75*31) ] = 89.9 
> -> 90%
> 
>So the two recipes were about a point different when 
>expressed as pt/lb/g but the efficiency for the rye was 90% 
>as compared to 75%. So it important to keep in mind the 
>extract potential of the grains.

I believe that your efficiency was the same, but you used far
too low a pt/lb/gal value for the rye.  I believe that it is
close to 40, but I would have to work backwards using my
typical mash efficiency and run my rye beer recipe through it
(assuming the same efficiency).

Personally, I use my *real* expected pt/lb/gal for each grain
rather than a maximum (theoretical) value when I do my grain
calculations simply because it is one less multiplication
and I do all my recipes on paper rather than on a computer
(60 hours a week on a computer is enough!).

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:30:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Re: Brewtap?

Michael writes (asking about the Brewtap):
>Does it produce beer that is as good as two step fermentation?  

Do you mean Brewcap, by our very own Kinney Baughman?

No, I haven't used it, but I just wanted to point out that,
in my opinion, *single-stage* fermentation produces beer just
as good as two-stage fermentation.

Just my opinion.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:03:21 -6
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu>
Subject: Need some help in Memphis

Dear Friends,

Let me apologize straight off for using the HBD for a
non-beer-related, personal purpose.  But I have no other recourse to 
reach a large number of people, and I hope you all will forgive this 
transgression.  I'll be brief.

I need a favor from someone who a) lives in Memphis, b) has a decent
stereo with taping capability, and c) will be at home on the evening
of Tuesday 13 May.  At 9:30 pm that night, local FM station WEGR will
be broadcasting live a 90-minute concert by John Fogerty, of
Creedence Clearwater musical godhood, and I am desperate to get
ahold of a recording of it.  If you think you might be able to help
out, please email me PRIVATELY and we can come to some kind of
mutually beneficial arrangement-- I will make it worth the while of
anyone who can come to my aid.  Thanks in advance, and apologies for
this blatantly off-topic post, but as I say, I am desperate.

Cheers, Dave in Dallas
- ---
*****************************************************************************
   Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083
             ddraper at utdallas.edu  Home page: hbd.org/~ddraper
                   Beer page: hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html
I can't be bought for a mere $3.50. ---Jeff Renner


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:25:23 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Adding "shit" to beer

     Hi all,
     
     Scott seems quite perturbed that some people add clarifiers to their 
     beer.  He claims to never have haze problems.
     
     Well, consider yourself very lucky, and please realize that not 
     everybody else is!  It is very rare for me to break the Reinheitsgebot 
     by adding clarifiers.  Occasionally, though, for no obvious reason, 
     I'll come across a batch that just won't clear, despite long, cold 
     lagering.
     
     In those instances a brewer has 3 choices:
     
     1.  Ignore the haze.  Not a good choice if the haze is yeast, as it 
     may adversely affect flavor.
     
     2.  Filter the beer.  Not a good choice if you a) don't own a filter 
     or b) are concerned about stripping desirable components from the 
     beer.
     
     3.  Try a fining agent.
     
     While I try to avoid it, there is nothing wrong with using fining 
     agents to clear a beer, in my opinion.  There are brewers that filter 
     beer prematurely, in an effort to get it to the customer more quickly, 
     but most homebrewers aren't going to be doing this.  Once the beer is 
     properly aged and tastes good, it is no sin to clarify it.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:51:50 -0000
From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat at phoenix.net>
Subject: oops

cancel article

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:12:05 -6
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu>
Subject: Web pages back online

Dear Friends,

After my long absence from the brew.net, my web pages have been 
updated and ensconced in their new home, thanks to Pat Babcock and 
Karl Lutzen.  I'm proud to have them housed on the HBD's own server 
at oeonline.com, where there should be few of the difficulties that 
plagued my online life while I was based in Australia.  

Since there are doubtless many who have joined HBD during the time I
have been away, allow me to give a brief rundown of what can be
found on my beer page:

FAQ files: links to the Yeast and Hops FAQs, a copy of Jim Busch's 
piece on malts and their characteristics, my compilation of water 
ionic compositions from many of the world's great brewing cities, and 
a link to AJ deLange's thorough discourse on modifying brewing waters 
to mimic many of those compositions.

Other items of interest:
Michael Taylor's SUDS recipe formulator, version 4.0a for Windows.  
This version fixes the bug that made for screwy mash-water 
calculations when using real (i.e. metric) units instead of those 
screwed-up british engineering units.

Pat Anderson's TinibuW for Windows, which allows calculation of IBUs 
using Glenn Tinseth's utilization data.

My summary of the _Brauwelt International_ article on First Wort 
Hopping, along with a table of results reported by homebrewers who 
have used the technique.

George Fix's original HBD posts on the 40-60-70 mashing procedure, 
and Kelly Jones's 1993 HBD post on calculating the temperatures and 
volumes of mash infusions.

List of links to other brewsites: many are very familiar already, 
some are not.

My own contributions: my essays on yeast culturing and slant use, 
and on priming bottled beer using weights of sugars rather than 
volumes (which was worked up into an article in the July/August '96 
issue of Brewing Techniques).

The URLs for my main home page and for the beer page appear in the 
signature file below.

Cheers,

Dave in Dallas (formerly Dave in Sydney, Dave in Bristol)
- ---
*****************************************************************************
   Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083
             ddraper at utdallas.edu  Home page: hbd.org/~ddraper
                   Beer page: hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html
We [HBDers] are like the Borg ---Chris Geden


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:47:36 -0800
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Old beer book value

I was hoping someone out there could help me assess the value of a 1965
edition of "The Curiosities of Ale & Beer"
by John Bickerdyke. It is a reprint of the original 1895 manuscript and
covers beer history, lore, origins of ale-houses, porter and stout origins,
laws and events concerning beer throughout the ages, and home-brewing. The
copy I am reviewing is in "very good" condition, as appraised by the local
antiquity book dealer, and he is asking $27.50 for it. Is this book one of
those classics that is referenced in most modern beer histories, or is it's
contents flawed historically (for instance, I know there are several takes
on the origins of porter)? Personally, I think it's a very interesting book
(I've only thumbed through it though), just wanted any background
available. I guess the bottom line is am I willing to pay $27.50 for it,
but I'd like to know if this is considered a rare find or not. Thanks!

Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:56:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com>
Subject: two quick tips - floating thermometer and bottling

Just two quick tips that maybe everybody in the universe already knew but
really made an impression on me the first time I heard them. 

1. Floating thermometer: the mercury-in-a-tube kinds are too slow to respond
and are difficult to read without removing the thermometer from the stuff.
Try whacking off the bottom 1/2" of a styrofoam coffee cup and sticking your
dial-type thermometer through it. The styrofoam makes a nifty little boat,
and you can read the temp from directly above without touching the thermometer. 

2. When bottling, set the bucket from which you are siphoning on the
countertop, and set the clean bottles on the open door of the dishwasher.
Then, if you spill a bit, it gets cleaned up when you do your next load of
dirty dishes. 

Hal Davis

Proprietor, the Safety Brewery, Plano, Texas
Member North Texas Home Brewers Association

Ignorance can be cured. 


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:18:19 -0400
From: "Jeff L. Foley" <tmhobbies at compuserve.com>
Subject: BREWPUBS/BREWERYS/FESTIVELS

I will be in central texas from 13 MAy to 11 June, does anybody know
of any festivals or brepubs/brewerys I could check out?
Jeff
  

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 08:39:14 -0400
From: Chris Dodge <cdodge at ptc.com>
Subject: Valley Mill

I wanted to know if anyone has used the Valley Mill.

I have seen this mill advertised in Zymurgy and it
looks very well made.

I was thinking about buying one, but would like to
know if anyone has had and experience with it.

Thanks in advance
Chris Dodge
email cdodge at ptc.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:14:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlannnnT at aol.com
Subject: Chris McAtee) Subject: POLAR WARE STAINLESS SPOON 

That polarware spoon is great, but they are made in Korea not  the US or
Canada. It was nice of Polarware to give you one.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:25:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at monarch.papillion.ne.us>
Subject: RE:  Hops Growing Question.

Jon wrote:

>My hop plants are now about 1 1/2 feet high and I need to create a 
>trellis for them to grow upward. I am not sure what type of wire, 
>string, etc to use that won't damage the vine but will also sustain 
>the weight of the heavy vines.  I talked to a local gardening rep, 
>and he said not to use wire since it will cut into vines.  True?

>Any feedback or previous experience would be appreciated. 

BALDERDASH!  I'm in year three for my Northern Brewer and Cascade 
and have used 16 or 18 gauge galvanized wire to support the vines.  
Last year the N. Brewer climbed to over 30 Ft (14m) high!  
However, I gave some extra support to the wire every 10 ft or so 
(tied it off to the chimney).  Since hops are a
bine (spelled correctly) they will spiral around the wire and will not
be cut by the wire.  I would NOT use string; it will rot and everything 
can then collapse.  They will also grow at an amazing rate; I've had up 
to 1 ft per day!  I've had several neighbors ask about the green vines 
climbing up my chimney - very impressive, and they will survive a northern 
winter.  

Other hop related items:
 - Hops can be like mint - invasive, taking over everything in sight.
 - I cut back lots of shoots this spring.  The N. Brewer shoots are pretty 
good sauteed like asperagus, but I don't like the Cascade. I left about 2 
shoots per wire; this will force the plant to grow upward (today 5' high).
 - A good hail storm will shred a hop plant pretty bad.
 - Grasshoppers like the leaves, but won't touch the cones.
 - A cheap food dehyrator is very useful to dry hops.  I stick my thermometer
into the middle, and when the temp starts rising I know most of the moisture 
has been driven off..
 - There are more cones higher up.  I get most of my hop cones above 15' on a
Southwest exposure (lots of sun). I can climb onto the roof to pick, realizing
this isn't an option for everyone.

>mmmm.. fresh Chinook cones!  

Not sure I'd plant Chinook.  Who knows the alpha acid for bittering?
Homegrown are best for arouma and flavoring.


- ----A good compromise leaves everyone a little mad.---


Return to table of contents