---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Corn, not in beer, but sort-of related to brewing (Russ Brodeur)
  drilling enamel pots (Dave Whitman)
  Rosemary Pale Ale ("Ted Major")
  RE: Iodophor / Rye beer / shipping beer (George De Piro)
  Corona Mill motorization (Steve Phillips)
  Idophor/Off Taste Thread (DD)
  Whoops ("Graham Wheeler")
  Re: Batch Sparging (Mark Peacock)
  Re: Belgian White questions (Mark Peacock)
  Re: Batch Sparging (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Brew It Yerself Joints/Lacto infestations (Scott Murman)
  RE:  Maize / Batch sparge (George De Piro)
  RE: Batch Sparging (Torque)
  Q's on shipping homebrew (Scott Goeke)
  Misc. Homebrew questions (TheTHP)
  Clumps (Paul Niebergall)
  Re: Belgain White questions (Jeff Renner)
  batch vs. fly sparging (korz)
  Grits (Mark Rancourt)
  Princeton HB (Some Guy)
  Water Chemistry problem (Dave Williams)
  Mill explosion proofing (mike maag)
  Batch Sparging (LINUSNLILA)
  Belgian white (Kit Anderson)
  Scottish Ale Debate Continued (Troy Hojel)
  Re: Coopers Sparkling ale yeast vs Yeastlab Australian ale yeast (JONATHAN BOVARD)
  diastatic extracts /yeast /shipping beer (Heiner Lieth)


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:32:18 -0400
From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Subject: Re: Corn, not in beer, but sort-of related to brewing

In HBD # 2441 I posed the question:

> Could the "sweetness" of the cooked corn be enhanced by a
> saccharification rest in the 145-50 F range before boiling??   

Well, I thought the ears cooked by first resting 30 min  at  150 F tasted
noticeably sweeter than those brought quickly to boiling.  My wife
thought so as well.  My kids were not convinced, however.  So, I guess
I'll need to run a few more experiments to prove/disprove my hypothesis.

Who knows; once baseball is over, maybe I'll actually have time to brew
again!  Gotta keep thinking about those mash reactions in the meantime,
though.

TTFN
Russ Brodeur in Franklin, MA
mailto:r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:36:43
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: drilling enamel pots

In HBD#2442, Doug Otto asks:

>Has anyone tried installing an easy masher in an enamel on steel pot?
>If so was chipping the enamel while drilling a problem?  I recently
>made move from 50/50 grain/extract to full mash and am finding that I
>miss not having the spigot on my new brew pot...

I've drilled 2 enamel pots to install easy mashers.  I did get a little
chipping, but it was minor enough that I could cover it with the rubber
washer that makes the seal with the pot.

I recommend sandwiching the inside and outside of the pot with blocks of
wood held together with big clamps, then drill through the wood.  A carbide
bit will help you get through the glass enamel coating.  1"x1" strips are
narrow enough that they fit the curve of the pot fairly well.
- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:12:13 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: Rosemary Pale Ale





I've been thinking of brewing a rosemary pale lately.  I'm planning
something along the lines of a single infusion mash, OG 1.050-1.060,
probably whole Cascade at 60 min and 30 min, with a large dose of fresh
rosemary at knockout to replace the aroma hops or possibly dry-herbing with
rosemary in the secondary.  I'm looking to create an ale along the lines of
a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or Anchor Liberty Ale with a rosemary rather than
a Cascade aroma

Has anyone out there in HBD-land ever brewed such a concoction?  If so, how
much rosemary did you use (and when), and how successful was the result?

Thanks,
Ted Major
Athens, Georgia



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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:31:32 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: RE: Iodophor / Rye beer / shipping beer

     Hi all,
     
     Occasionally people write in talking about iodophor flavors in their 
     beer.  They always mention that it is billed as a "no rinse" 
     sanitizer.  Yes, it is no rinse, but if you read the instructions 
     carefully, it says to allow it to air dry before using the vessel!
     
     Your beer may very well taste like iodine if you put it in a container 
     that is wet with iodophor!  Either rinse it out or let it dry (which 
     allows the volatile iodine to evaporate).
     ----------------------------------
     Audra asks about rye beer.  She mentions that her brewer is an extract 
     brewer, yet gives us an all-grain recipe.  The grain bill seems fine, 
     except that I would use more rye (at least 50%).  Of more concern is 
     the fact that this might be a first all-grain attempt.
     
     I have never been one to discourage mashing, but if you do a rye beer 
     as your first all-grain batch, you may never do another!  It is not 
     easy to work with.  It will gum up the lauter tun fiercely.
     
     If this is your first all-grain beer, you may want to try starting 
     with an all-barley malt recipe, just to work out the kinks in your 
     technique and system before doing a rye beer.  Even wheat beers are 
     easier to lauter!
     ----------------------------------
     Dan Ritter writes in about his UPS woes.  I had a similar experience 
     yesterday.  I went in to UPS and noticed some new signs.  One read, 
     "All glass must be inspected."  "Hmmm," I thought.  "I'd better think 
     fast."
     
     The guy looked at the address on the package.  It read, "Beer 
     Unlimited."
     
     "Is this beer?" he asked.
     
     Remembering Dan's post, I replied, "It's root beer in plastic bottles, 
     and I only wrote "fragile" because I'm paranoid."
     
     The guy believed my BS, and then went on to tell me that it was 
     illegal to ship beer, and that they also are not allowed to ship 
     pressurized, glass bottles (ie, beer or soda) by air because "it will 
     explode."
     
     I wanted to explain to the guy that I doubted they were going to ship 
     my bottles into space, where the pressure difference might cause the 
     caps to blow off, but I decided it was best to just nod and smile.
     
     In summary, lie through your teeth to ship beer UPS.  Call the AHA and 
     UPS and demand clarification of the law.  For the time being, don't 
     organize contests with shipping addresses that say "beer" or "brew" or 
     other obviously alcoholic words!  It makes the counter person VERY 
     suspicious!
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:28:03 -0500
From: Steve Phillips <swp at datasync.com>
Subject: Corona Mill motorization

Howdy again...

Dan's post about replacing the handle on a Corona mill started old urges

boiling up again after I thought that I had put them to bed once and for

all, and resigned myself to an afternoon of menial labor with my Corona.

I've searched the archives (as best I could with hits limited to ten at
a
time), and although I'm sure there's something there somewhere, I'm
at a loss to find it.  And so, I postulate:  has anyone motorized their
el-cheapo?  How did you do it?  Motor size?  Reduction pulleys?
You get the picture.

Private replies are o.k.  I promise to dance at the next wedding of
the donor of the best response.

Thanx,
Steve Phillips
Possum Trot Brewery
Long Beach, Mississippi
http://www.datasync.com/~swp


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:52:41 -0500
From: DD <dunn at tilc.com>
Subject: Idophor/Off Taste Thread

- --MimeMultipartBoundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have used Idophor with glass, stainless and plastic for several years
and never have off flavor in beers...not a chemist but surely blasting
the plastic container with 150 degree F got water for a few minutes
eliminates any Idophor remaining in the plastic...actually I store the
stuff in the plastic for reuse, and yes, it stains, but hot, hot water
takes care of the stain and the taste from my experience.  I do think
switching to bleach from time to time is wise just to keep the critters
from becoming resistant, maybe?  Any chemist, etc. out there who can
respond to Rick's 6-16-97 mail?  dd
- --MimeMultipartBoundary--

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:07:27 +0100
From: "Graham Wheeler" <Graham.Wheeler at btinternet.com>
Subject: Whoops

I certainly got the hop growing region in NZ wrong (thanks Murray and
Bruce). Perhaps I'd better stick to not making wild guesses about things I
don't know about. My natural curiosity now wonders why the north of South
Island rather than the south; presumably demographics, hospitality of the
land etc. At least I now know where the hops are grown in NZ. This Internet
lark certainly speeds up the learning process.

Graham Wheeler
High Wycombe
England



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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:00:26 -0500
From: Mark Peacock <peacock at chicagonet.net>
Subject: Re: Batch Sparging

> where A is the gallons per pound drained in both the initial and the
> batch-sparge runoffs.  B is the gallons per pound absorbed by the grain.  The
> assumption was that one strikes in with (A + B) gallons per pound
 ....
> A can be anything from 0.25 to 0.5, with 0.33 being a common figure (1.33
> qt/lb).  My experiments show B to be about 0.13 (0.52 qt/lb) but I've seen
> figures as low as 0.08 (0.32 qt/lb).  With typical values of A = 0.33 and B =
> 0.13, efficiency is a decent 92% of a fully-sparged wort.

I've always mashed in at 1.33 qt/lb, which (if I'm reading the formula
correctly) would be A + B.  A would then be 1.33-B or 0.81 qt/lb.  Am I
reading this correctly?

I usually do a semi-batch sparge -- I don't drain the bed completely,
but instead add a quart of 170F sparge water periodically to top-up the
liquid level.  I've had good efficiencies and bad efficiencies. 
However, I believe that the most significant variable for me is crush
quality.

Regards,
Mark Peacock
Hinsdale, Illinois
peacock at chicagonet.net

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:02:39 -0500
From: Mark Peacock <peacock at chicagonet.net>
Subject: Re: Belgian White questions

The Brewing Techniques web site (as you might expect,
http:\\www.brewingtechniques.com ) has a nice section on beer styles. 
In this section is a very good article on Wit beers by Martin Lodahl in
which Martin opines on your two questions:

1) 2-row or 6-row -- Martin suggests 2-row pils malt, Belgian if you can
get/afford it.

2) Decoction -- Given the use of unmalted wheat, some sort of
temperature program is recommended.  Martin implies that a decoction
would be nice, but not necessary.

I highly recommend the article, as well as the others in the section.

Regards,
Mark Peacock
Hinsdale, Illinois
peacock at chicagonet.net

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Date: 17 Jun 1997 09:23:02 -0700
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com>
Subject: Re: Batch Sparging


I do batch sparging in my RIMS system and get a normal efficiency of
about 78% of the theoretical yield of 35 pts. for 2 row.  I let the
outflow go as fast as a 1/2" valve will let it go out until it goes to
a trickle, then pump in another shot of water to cover the grain and
do it again.  A couple of times I did the trickle-in/trickle-out
method and my sparge times went up 3-fold and I got maybe 1/2 to 1
percent better extraction.  My time is lots more valuable than the few
cents more of grain I have to buy to hit the correct OG, and I don't
have any ego problems about having low extraction rates.  What counts
to me is that I can formualate a recipe I have never made before and
hit it within 1-2 pts. OG and that my brew day is as short as possible
(and that is already up to 6 hours).

dion


- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:21:35 -0700
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Brew It Yerself Joints/Lacto infestations

> 
> I don't know if it's common practice, but this place had "mixers" once a
> month or so. They had 8 kettles, and I think each batch made about 6
> cases of beer, so they'd have parties of 8 or 16 sign up (sign up with a
> friend or meet friends there). They'd make 8
> <bold><italic>different</italic></bold> batches of beer, and everybody
> would come back to bottle. At the end, each person would take home a case
> or so of each of 8 different kinds of beer. Great way to make friends,
> learn about brewing, and hone your tastes on what kind of beer you wanted
> to brew. 
> 
> Hal Davis

Just as a follow-up, my friend is still waiting for his beer and it's
now been two months since they brewed the first time.  The last time
he checked, the operations folks said the beer was still green, which
I can understand, but then I'm a brewer.  My friend was less than
pleased however, perhaps because he sees me sitting on my deck
enjoying my brews.  Then again, perhaps it's because they're charging
US $100 for the privledge of watching someone brew two cases of beer.
The place here (South Bay S.F., CA) is part of a chain, and I've seen
these folks selling their bottled brews in the local groceries.  This
makes sense to me; get the people to taste the beers, and if they like
them maybe they'll come in and brew some.

//

George de Piro (brew club honcho extraordinairre) commented on my
plans to sour mash becuase I was concerned about removing the lacto
critters from my fermentation set-up.  I agree that autoclaving should
remove any problems from tubes, airlocks, etc., but not everyone has a
pressure cooker.  I'm going only on second-hand information here but I
figured I'd rather play it safe than find out that lacto guys are
ruining my pale ales later on.  I've been told that iodopher and
bleach have *not* completely removed lacto cultures from fermenters,
and I think I've even heard that autoclaving has not worked.  Again, I
don't have first-hand info on this, so if anyone can clear this up,
please do.

SM


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:23:15 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: RE:  Maize / Batch sparge

     Hi all,
     
     Chuck asks about the contribution of flaked maize.  I have been 
     thinking about this myself.  It adds a definite corn flavor to the 
     beer.
     
     It does, however, dilute malt flavor (because it replaces some of the 
     malt).  I made a Pre-Pro Pils a while back with estimated IBU's of 
     30-40 (depending on which formula you use).  It tasted MUCH more 
     bitter than that!  I have a theory, which is mine, that the perception 
     of bitterness was increased greatly because of the lack of malt to 
     provide balance.  Next time I will reduce my hop rates appropriately.
     
     This is pure speculation, mind you, but I think there's something to 
     it.  A while back I made an Altbier with slightly less hops than the 
     Pre-Pro pils.  The bitterness was MUCH lower, however.  Could it be 
     because the Alt was 100% malt, and single decocted?  The malt flavor 
     balanced the bitterness, thus reducing perception of hops.  I don't 
     know, just something to ponder...
     ----------------------------
     Ken talks about batch sparging, and mentions running the grain bed dry 
     between spargings.  In my experience, a lot of draff comes out of the 
     lauter tun when you run the bed dry .  This would be a bad thing.
     
     It may be best to not run the bed dry.  Also, what's the problem with 
     adding water to the tun every 10 minutes?  I add a few gallons of 
     sparge water, do other things for ~10 minutes, then add another few 
     gallons of water on top of the grain bed before it goes dry.  Doesn't 
     seem like too much trouble.  There is no need to "match" in flow with 
     out flow.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:24:38 -0700
From: Torque <wieleba at pce.net>
Subject: RE: Batch Sparging

I have been batch sparging for about 6 months, but my method is a little
different than what you described.  I recirculate the first running and
than slowly drain off into the boiler, i than add half my sparge water
and stir the mash for a about 30 seconds, let it sit for 15 minutes, and
drain off for 15 minutes. I then add the remaining water and let it sit
unstirred for 15 minutes and drain off slowly.  My extract efficiency
went from 50% with a traditional type sparge to 65% with the batch
sparge, i blame the poor efficiency on my mash tun design, a rectangular
picnic cooler with a poorly made false bottem, which i plan on chaning
in the near future.

Dan
- -- 
http://www.pce.net/wieleba/beerlink.htm

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Goeke <sgoeke at fhcrc.org>
Subject: Q's on shipping homebrew

	Howdy!  I have a brewing friend who just moved to a distant
location and we would like to continue to exchange a few bottles from each
of our batches for comparison and bragging purposes.  Does anybody know
about the legality and/or proper procedures for shipping homebrew?  Does
it tend to ship well, or are there unfortunate complications?  
	Any knowledge that might be out there would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:01:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: TheTHP at aol.com
Subject: Misc. Homebrew questions

Dear HBD,

Since things are a little slow I thought I'd submit a few accumulated
questions...

Q1:At what PSI do you begin to risk Bottle bombs. Specifically for 20oz Bass
and Red Hook Starbucks coffee stout bottles? I just bottled some raspberry
Cider, and I had it cranked up to 20psi for a sparkling effect. In order to
bottle it I released all the head pressure and bottled at 8psi as per usual.
But there was alot of foaming around. I packed them in a box and bagged the
box and put it in my beer closet in the basement. What do you think, did I
make a mess?

Q2: I just keged my Summer Weizen, How many ATM's should a proper German
Wheat be carbonated at? 2.7-3??

Q3: I found a bottle of LLBean Raspberry Syrup in my pantry. Im considering
drawing off a 2 liter of wheat and making some Raspberry Wheat.  How do I
best accomplish this? Should I use it for Priming? If so how points would I
need to properly prime 2 Liters? How do I figure out how to transfer SG. of
the syrup to an amount of priming sugar? 

Q4: With Meads:  I started a blueberry melomel with 5lbs of berries (Steeped)
and 10lbs of honey (OG1.083). I let that ferment for 2 months. Without
racking I later decided to step it up with 5 more lbs of both honey and
berries. I have a wide mouthed carboy so I just dumped the honey in and
stirred, likewise with the berries. How long should I let the mead sit on the
berries?

Q5: With fathers day just behind us, should we be expecting lots of questions
on how to use new toys???

Phil.
Poison Frog Home Brewery
Pfeilgiftfrosche Weizen and Poison Frog pale Ale now on Tap!!!

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:37:12 -0500
From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject:  Clumps

Home Brew Ingesters:

Dave writes:
>>Ever see the big clumps of yeast that rise and fall during active
>>fermentation?

AlK writes:
>>........they are break and not yeast.

O.K. so what are the big clumps?  Every once in a while I have a
fermentation that is so active, that I have considered trying to harness
the power to heat my house in the winter.  Anyway, when I am blessed
with one of these really big ferments, I have observed the mystery
clumps floating about.  I have seen clumps as big as 3/8 of an inch or so
and sometimes is looks like a tornado in my carboy.  The appearance of
the clumps are definitely a function of the activity of the ferment (at least
in my home brewery).  Therefore I don?t think it is too much of a stretch to
say they are yeast related.  I have observed cold break coagulating in
the carboy after a really good counterflow chill session (hot break left in
kettle).  But the cold break falls apart with the lightest disturbance.  If the
clumps are cold break, how does it stay together in the vigors of a
tornadic fermentation?  I tend to go with Dave on this one.  The yeast floc
together to form huge colonies when you have a super ferment going on.

Nazdrowie,

Paul Niebergall




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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:50:05 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Belgain White questions

sy73308 at vantage.fmr.com (Steven Biggins) asked about wits:

>  1) Which is better to use 2-Row or 6-Row, and why?

6-row has more enzymes, and since you'll presumably be using 50% unmalted
wheat (maybe with some oats), it can't hurt to have all you can get.  It
has slightly lower yield and slightly higher tannins and polyphenols than
2-row, but with low-tannin wheat (because it's huskless), there should be
no problem.  I've found that since it is slightly less plump than 2-row,
double or even triple passes through a Malt Mill results in really top
quality crush.

2-row would be nearly as good, but be sure not to get Briess's new *pale
ale* 2-row (Harrington), which is malted and kilned in the British
tradition and is higher in color (3.5) and lower in enzymes than their
regular 2-row.  Some distributors may have changed without telling
everybody because it seems that's what everyone prefers for ales.  It would
be a poor choice for a wit.

>  2) Is it better to do a decoction mash ?

I wouldn't bother.  I've just mashed in at 140 for 30 minutes, then boosted
with heat to 158F.  You could just mash in at 153 as well.  I've done a
step mash with a 30 minute protein rest at 122F and got disappointing head
retention.  Musta chewed up the proteins too much.

>  Any, other tips or info. would be great.

If you can get raw, soft white winter wheat, that's the best and what they
use in Belgium.  Soft wheat is typically lower in protein than hard, and is
easier to mill as well.  White wheat is lower in tannins and phenols than
red.  It lends a nice softness to the beer than you can detect as early as
the mash.

For something a bit out of the ordinary, check out my ginger wit recipe on
Cat's Meow III at http://alpha.rollanet.org/cm3/recs/09_85.html.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu



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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:42:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: batch vs. fly sparging

Ken writes:
>into account during recipe formulation.  Since there *is* sort of a rinse
>process involved in batch-sparging, we would expect the "efficiency" to be
>higher.  According to my back-of-the-envelope doodlings, I figure a good
>batch-sparge can be almost as efficient as a full-sparge.  If you mash
>relatively thin and allow enough time for full drainage, you could be as good
>as 95% as efficient as full-sparging.

The process of adding sparge water continuously while draining the
laeuter tun is called "fly sparging."

I just wanted to throw a small spanner (wrench) into the works...
Saying that batch sparging "can be almost as efficient" as 
fly sparging, assumes that the fly sparging is 100% efficient.
In most cases, it is not.  The factor you have forgotten Ken,
is *channeling*.  Channels are like little 3-D rivers running
through the grain bed.  Depending on your crush, runoff rate,
laeuter tun design, and probably whether your are more than
50 degrees from the equator, you will have either more or less
channeling.  If you have more channeling than most, there's a
good chance that batch sparging may be more efficient than
fly sparging.

As for whether batch sparging may be an option for no-sparge
brewers, I think it depends on what the reasons are for the
brewer not sparging.  If it's because of kettle size limitations,
time constraints, or some (as yet unproven) additional malt
character, then I don't think that batch sparging would be that
attractive.  Personally, now that I've built this 15-gallon
system, I usually do parti-gyle brewing (one strong, one
medium, one weak beer, or some combination of three worts)
so batch sparging lends itself very easily to this.  Although,
of the 20-odd batches I've brewed, all but two or three of them
were fly sparged (even the parti-gyle-like batches).


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:04:08 -0700
From: Mark Rancourt <rancourt at nelson.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Grits

I was wondering if anybody has tried using Grits as an adjunct.
If so, what were the results?

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:14:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Princeton HB

Greetings, Beerlings! Feed me some humble pie...

Ya know, as I bottled a batch of beer produced by the Brew Crew last 
night (damned thing insisted on continuing its ferment well past my 
expectations...), my mind kept going back to the recent exchange here 
regarding Princeton Homebrew. A little bit of soul-searching later, and...

Joe, 

My sincere and heartfelt apologies. It is truly unfortunate that I 
happened upon your shop on those occassions, but even more unfortunate 
that I brought it to public attention in the manner that I did. 

(So I lied! But this needed to be said.)

See ya! 

Pat Babcock               | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for
pbabcock at oeonline.com     |  therapy..." -PGB
brewbeerd at aol.com         | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
janitor@ brew.oeonline.com |  at the end of your day as every sentence
Home Brew Digest Janitor  |  requires proper punctuation." -PGB
Webmaster of the Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
                 Home of the Home Brew Flea Market


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:07:30 -0400
From: rdavis at gator.net (Dave Williams)
Subject: Water Chemistry problem

I've got some questions for any water chemists out there in the collective

I got a water analysis from my local municipality (Newberry, Florida) taken
at the well head.  My well is located about 1 mile from the municipal well
field and is within 50' of the same depth.  we are both drawing from the
upper Floridan aquifer which flows through a limestone bedrock system.
water quality is consistent throughout this area, so I am confident that
their analysis will closely  reflect the ion content of my water.  The ion
concentrations  for the major ions are as follows:

Calcium, dissolved		                52 mg/L
Sulfate, dissolved			4.9 mg/L
Magnesium, dissolved		3.5 mg/L
Sodium,  dissolved		                2.4 mg/L
Chloride, dissolved		                5.1 mg/L
Carbonate, dissolved		??? the report  doesn't say
Hardness			                171 mg/L
Alkalinity (dissolved as CaCo3)              130 mg/L

Here are my questions:

1) Can the concentration of carbonate be determined from the above data
since it was not given in the report?
2) How much will boiling the water reduce the ionic concentrations of
Calcium and Carbonate?  When I boil 15 gallons of brewing water for 10
minutes to reduce alkalinity I get about 3/4 teaspoon of precipitate,
presumably Calcium carbonate.  
3) Does boiling  reduce the Calcium enough that I need to add some back?  My
pale / pilsner mash pH has been in the 5.0 to 5.5 range after boiling the
water but without adding gypsym. Have I just answered my own question? 
4) If I add gypsum will it make the mash *too* acid?	

It looks to me like this water is pretty easy to adjust for almost any style
of beer.  If I can get the answers to the above questions, I think that I
can figure the rest out with the Brew Water calculator.  Any help will be
greatly appreciated.  Private E-mail ok.

TIA
Dave W.    


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:22:22 -0600
From: mike maag <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Mill explosion proofing

On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> wrote
Re: MILL ANTI-EXPLOSION PROOFING:

I know of other brewers that had similar "hacked together" mill equipment
that are far bigger and they never have had a "close one". a/b, miller and
coors amoungst a few other large producers would need it just to pass OSHA
or local ordinance....so jethro you could probably get away with out it.
joe

It is a misconception that small employers are exempt from OSHA regs.  All 
establishments in high hazard SIC codes (including microbreweries) which employ
even one person are covered. If you are incorporated, and have no employees, 
YOU are an employee.  Granted, an establishment employing 10 or fewer persons 
is highly unlikely to get inspected by OSHA, unless an employee makes a
complaint
or there is a serious accident or fatality.  Grinding mills are Class II
Division 2
locations, requiring electrical equipment listed for this type hazardous
location.

Just passing along this info FYI,

Mike Maag <maagm at rica.net>
Va. OSHA, Safety & Health Senior Compliance Officer  (e-mail any questions)


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:46:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: LINUSNLILA at aol.com
Subject: Batch Sparging

A few other points to consider with batch sparging versus conventional
sparging:

1.  In conventional sparging, the top grain layer gets increasingly more
rinsed the higher you get from the false bottom.  That is, the sugar
concentration is a function of  the distance from the screen.  It seems to me
that there is a much higher risk of leaching out tannins and other
undesirable flavors this way.  In batch sparging, I would think that the
sugar concentration would be more homogenous, and would not change when you
drain the wort out.  The drawback is the filtering of sugars by the grain as
the wort is drained out

2.   I noticed much less channeling of the flow through the grain bed when I
switched from conventional to batch sparging.  Try as I might, it did not
seem that I could sprinkle the water gently enough to avoid stirring up the
grain bed, and getting the flow right was impossible with all of the steam
and all.  And when the sparge was done, I could see channels in the grain.
 So know I just drain as much as I can at first, pour in my sparge water,
stir well, and recirculate for 20 minutes.

3.   It's so easy!  No more bending over steam to see where the level is.  No
more trying to keep the sparge water at the right temperature for 45 minutes.
 No more wondering what the actual temp of the water was when it hit the
grain bed, after losing all that heat to steam.  Now I can start boiling my
first runnings while the sparge is going, and save another 20 minutes there
too.  I estimate that I have cut my brew time by an hour, and if that's not a
definition of efficiency I don't know what is.

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:14:40 -0400
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Belgian white

Steve Biggins asked;

>I'm planning on making a Belgain white this weekend and I have 
>a few questions:
>
>  1) Which is better to use 2-Row or 6-Row, and why?

2 row Belgian. Too many enzymes in the 6 row. 
  
>  2) Is it better to do a decoction mash ?

You don't want the flavor of decoction in a wit. Step mash 125-132-141-156-168. 
Use flaked wheat not wheat malt. You can buy it in health food stores.  
Use the right yeast. BrewTek and Yeast Culture Kit Co have the best wit yeasts. 
Add the orange peel and coriander to secondary so the aromatics don't get
scrubbed. 
Adjust the final lactic acid to taste, not a pH meter or paper.

- ---
Kit Anderson	*****NEW EMAIL ADDRESS***** 
Bath, Maine	   kitridge at bigfoot.com		

I suppose that it's theoretically possible for a Yankee to
make decent barbecue. But it sure ain't a pretty thought!
                                        -Smokey Pitts


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:15:01 -0700
From: Troy Hojel <hojel at flash.net>
Subject: Scottish Ale Debate Continued

Al writes:
> Either there is a vast difference between Scottish Ales from northern
> and southern Scotland or you have been away from home far too long.
> 
> I tasted perhaps two dozen ales brewed in Scotland (primarily in the
> southern half) when I visited there in the summer of 1995, and I really
> didn't notice them to be that different from English Bitters.  According
> to the AHA guidelines they aren't supposed to have hop aromas, but *most*
> did... they aren't supposed to be as bitter as English Bitters, but
> *most* were... they aren't supposed to be balanced more towards bitterness
> rather than maltiness, but *most* were...  and the hops used were all
> English varieties, not Continental ones.  Overall, there really wasn't
> that much difference between them and English Bitters.  In fact, one
> or two beers brewed by McEwan's and sold in Scotland with shilling
> designations (i.e. 60/-, 70/-, etc.) are also sold in northern England
> simply relabeled "Younger's" beers with English beer names (IPA, Bitter,
> etc.).
<snip>

Not to drag this debate on for too long, but I just returned from a trip
to the UK, and beg to differ.  Obviously, we might not have tasted the
same beers and our taste in beer may differ (perceptions etc).  But my
conclusion, the Scottish ales (80/~ etc) did taste *different* than many
of the English ales (Bitters etc).  I did taste some weak Scottish ales
that tasted like weak English ales.  I don't think this can be
attributed to a blending of styles.  Rather, to inferior products (on
both sides).

Most importantly, the yeast(s) used contribute a completely different
taste profile.  Many of the ales in Scotland did retain more "malty"
characteristics.  In addition to the multiple layers of residual malt,
many of the Scottish ales had slight hints of wine or a vinous taste. 
Again, most likely a direct result of the yeast strains used (or
bacteria?).  These strains also left a very distinct aroma.  It is
difficult for me to fully describe this aroma (I'm not as poetic as MJ),
but I would say that the predominate profile was one of complex
toasted/roasted caramel. Slight citrus hops on the nose; but they played
a back-row seat to the malt.  This aroma was NOT out of style. 

I found these ales to have *balancing* bitterness, and at times,
slightly assertive bitterness.  BUT, the perceived bitterness was
completely different from those of the English beers.  Maybe softer and
less prickly.  I don't know, but I assume that the actual hops used
differ (not to mention the hop schedule and longer boiling times), but
they were definitely not the same.  The Scottish ales did not have the
classic English characteristics (Fuggle, Golding, etc).  Two beers may
have the same IBU's but the attenuation of the yeast, and the taste
compounds, completely alter the perception of the bitterness; not to
mention the difference in hop varieties and grain bill.  Bottom line,
these ales were in no way alike.

To say that the Scottish ales have possibly been "Anglified" is, in my
opinion, dead wrong. I found both styles of beer to be equally enjoyable
and equally different.


Troy 

Again, I'm not an expert (no one is), but I do know my craft well enough
to say that these beers differed in many ways.

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:23:07 +1000 (EST)
From: JONATHAN BOVARD <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Coopers Sparkling ale yeast vs Yeastlab Australian ale yeast


Sorry but the two are different yeast.
How am Qualified to say this?
1. I live in australia and have used both
2.Ive got a friend whos a Microbiologist, homebrewer and professional
brewer and he says they arent the same.
They are similar though!
Cheers
JB 
Brisbane, Australia


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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heiner Lieth <lieth at telis.org>
Subject: diastatic extracts /yeast /shipping beer

Dave Burley wrote:

>diastatic malt extracts form a good base for
>your brews.  This means they can reduce some *gelatinized* starch to
>maltose.  If the extract container doesn't say diastatic it isn't and can't
>reduce starch. Use of things like flaked barley, cooked adjuncts, etc. =
>will only produce a starchy, cloudy beer at best ( perhaps hidden by the
>stout's color) if you use non-diastatic malt extracts.

As I understand it (and practice it), extract is generally added as the wort
comes to a boil. Wouldn't the very hot temperatures denature the enzymes
immediately and prevent any conversion of starches to sugars.  Would such
extracts have to be added while the temperatures are below 160F and rested
there (if so, how long)?

- --------

Dana Brigham asks:
>how long does the small amount of yeast at the bottom of 
>a bottle conditioned beer last?

I asked this some months back and the concensus was that the yeast at the
bottom of the bottle is merely dormant and stays that way for a long time
(many monhts).  It can be restarted even a year after bottling.

- --------

Wes writes:
>     The local UPS service (Angleton Texas) now opens and inspects 
>     all packages regardless of what is written on the outside (FOOD or 
>     YEAST SAMPLES). They would not ship anything in glass and especially 
>     if it is alcoholic in nature. The same goes with the US postal 
>     service. Its getting to where you can't enter any home brew 
>     competitions unless you drive it there yourself. This there any way 
>     around this.
I suggest the following (for small number of bottles) based on personal
experience: pack the bottles in a small cardboard box tightly with styrofoam
and bubble wrap.  Tape this box shut and seal it into a large plastic bag
(in case of rupture).  Shake the box; if you hear glass clinking then repack
it.  Pack this small box in a much larger box with lots of styrofoam pellets
all around each side of the smaller box.  The bigger box and styrofoam
doesn't add that much to the cost as long as you stay within the limits set
by shipper.  If you do it right, then you should hear no glass clinking or
fluid sloshing. Don't write anything on the outside that is not obviously
required to get the package to it's destination.  

- -----------

There have been several posts on hops and photoperiodism.  I work in
ornamental horticulture and manipulation of photoperiodism is a tool that we
use extensively. 

I'm not familiar with photoperiodism in hops.  With the plants that I deal
with, you can manipulate the photoperiod with incandescent lamps (60W light
bulbs) turned on for some time (4 hours?) during the middle of the night.
This tricks the plants into getting the needed stimulus.  Perhaps the same
can work with hops; but how many lights, how far from the plant, how much of
the night? - I don't know.

Heiner Lieth


  


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