---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  yeast and alcoholic lemonade (Stephen Neate)
  brewing lemonade, spam harvester alert (Dave Whitman)
  Gap Adjustment ("David R. Burley")
  Re:  Yeast from secondary / lagering in keg or secondary (George De Piro)
  Phil's philler cleaning (Randy Ricchi)
  secondary and lagering (BAYEROSPACE)
  water analysis: denied (BAYEROSPACE)
  Re: Sanitation Simplicity Pt 2: Bottles (PickleMan)
  been there, done that (John_E_Schnupp)
  mill gap for wheat (Mike Uchima)
  lagering weizens (Randy Ricchi)
  Re: Zima Brewing (Chris King)
  New Jersey Online- Home Brew Page, etc. (Mark Witherspoon)
  Five Star Products (FivestarAE)
  secondary or lager vessle, barbecue (John Wilkinson)
  Potential Source of Free / Low Cost Equipment ("Hunts, Jeff")
  Ugh/chilling bottles and foil caps/B+T/yeast starters and reuse (korz)
  Atom Masher Web Site has moved (Michael L. Hall)
  Beetles ("Lee Carpenter")


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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:47:14 +0900
From: Stephen Neate <Stephen.Neate at adl.soils.csiro.au>
Subject: yeast and alcoholic lemonade

Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com> said

>Wasn't there a recent thread about brewing lemon flavored beers? Folks
>experimenting with this should probably watch out for premature
>flocculation, and rousing the yeast if necessary to get complete
>fermentation.  


I second that warning.  Last November I made an alcoholic lemonade, with
basically lemon juice, zest and sugar.  I used a double quantity of Coopers
dry yeast and fermented at 25 C.  In a normal beer, the fermentation would
have been over in 2-3 days using that temperature and yeast combination.
The fermentation never really took off explosively and three weeks later it
was still slowly chugging away with a very thick crust of yeast on the
bottom of the carboy, despite mixing the yeast into suspension every few days.

Part of the problem may have been lack of nutrients, as there is no malt in
either my recipe or the one posted recently.

Next attempt at that recipe I will measure pH and add nutrients and post
the results.

Stephen Neate
In Adelaide

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:19:49
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: brewing lemonade, spam harvester alert


In HBD #2459, I wrote:
dw>Wasn't there a recent thread about brewing lemon flavored beers? Folks
dw>experimenting with this should probably watch out for premature
dw>flocculation, and rousing the yeast if necessary to get complete
dw>fermentation.  

Dave Burki then asks:
DB>I am planning to try the Three Dogs recipe this weekend.  Why do I need to
DB>watch out for premature flocculation?  Would I be smart to rouse the yeast
DB>say on day 2 or 3 then again on day 5 or 6?  Anybody tried this before?

The abstract I posted suggests that if the pH of your beer/lemonade
approaches 4.5, the yeast could prematurely settle out, leaving you with
too high a SG.  If you bottled, you might find that the beer slowly becomes
more and more carbonated.  Since lemon juice is acidic, I was concerned
that lemon flavored beers might be closer to pH 4.5 than normal beers, and
more prone to premature flocculation of the yeast.

My suggestion is just to make sure and check the SG before bottling and
make sure it's in a reasonable range.  If it seems too high, rouse the
yeast to try and get it going again.  I can't suggest a specific time to
rouse; it might not be necessary at all.  Rouse if it looks like
fermentation has stopped, but SG is higher than you expected, that's all.

****

I get a lot of spam, and HBD is one of the only "public" venues where I
expose my unmunged email address. It's with a sinking feeling in the pit of
my stomach that I'd like to alert HBD members to a security breach that I
suspect spammers are using to harvest our email addresses.

The HBD archives and HTMLized digest contain the full text of years of HBD,
and each issue is chock full of email addresses.  I strongly suspect that
these are being used by spammers to build their mailing lists. They could
do this by specifically downloading back issues and grepping them, but I
suspect a more passive route: web crawlers randomly ending up on the
HTMLized digest pages and hitting paydirt.

I'm not sure what to do about this.  Having the searchable, online archives
is clearly valuble, as is easy off-digest communication between HBD
contributors facilitated by including email addresses.  

For now, I'm going to mung my address when posting, although the damage may
already be done.  I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause to
members or the digest janitors.  Anyone have ideas on how to close this
breach without destroying the archives? 
Dave Whitman     dwhitman at EREHWON.rohmhaas.com   
(remove "EREHWON." from address or email will bounce)
"The opinions are those of the author, and not Rohm and Haas Co."

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:28:35 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Gap Adjustment

Brewsters:

Mike Spinelli asks how to mill wheat and other
 malts with mills with adjustable nips.  =


Here's how I do it.  Close the nip to zero gap ,
start the mill and open the gap until it just begins
 to mill a substantial quantity of grain.   With =

barley malt this will be about 0.070-0.080 inches
 for various British and American and continental
 malts, for wheat malts this will be a little narrower =

and with rye, even smaller still.  The first pass of
 the grain should be crushed into about 6-8 pieces,
 and in the case of barley malt, still mostly in the
 husk and the husks whole.  Wheat and rye, of
 course, have no husks, so this is not a problem.
  Then close the nip to about 0.060-0.065 in. and =

mill again.  One more pass to 0.055 in. will give
 you a "professional" milling equivalent to a
 six-roll mill.  I don't think this fine of a milling is =

desirable with either wheat or rye as they have a =

tendency to stick during lautering. I only do two
 millings even with barley malt as it gives me high
 efficiencies and easy lautering.
- -------------------------------------------
Jethro Gump properly calls me to task:

>Now, Dave, do I smell condescension? That's not like you! ;-)
>No, I guess it's just the assistant brewer's socks!

Well, it wasn't intentional, but it sure does look like it.
I apologize to anyone who was insulted by the tone.
Perhaps 'frustrated' is a better word at unsupported
speculation about physico-chemical phenomena
( near and dear to my heart) being displayed as facts.
I certainly didn't mean to be disrespectful.
Maybe I was out of beer when I wrote it.

I did wash my socks in public though. {8^)
- -------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:32:19 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Re:  Yeast from secondary / lagering in keg or secondary

     Hi all,
     
     Marc has used yeast from his secondary, which goes against the advice 
     of Charlie P. and some others.  He wonders if this is bad.
     
     I often harvest yeast from the secondary for several reasons (such as 
     I forgot to harvest from the primary, or I want yeast without trub, or 
     I decide at the last minute to brew with that yeast, etc.).  As long 
     as the beer tastes clean, the yeast should be fine for at least a 
     couple of generations.
     
     The only things I can envision being bad about this practice are the 
     increased risk of contamination and the selecting of yeasts that 
     flocculated more poorly than the ones that were in the primary cake.  
     I don't know how much of a real concern this second point is, but I 
     believe that if you did this to a yeast for several generations you 
     could end up with a strain that floccs poorly.  Just a guess.  Any 
     opinions?
     ------------------------------
     Robert ponders whether or not he can lager his Vienna in a keg, 
     instead of a carboy.  It depends on how the beer smells/tastes now.  
     Many German lager yeasts produce a lot of sulphur.  Most people prefer 
     to leave the beer in a carboy for several weeks until the sulphur 
     dissipates.  If you keg the beer prematurely, the sulphur will be 
     trapped.
     
     On the other hand, some German beers, like Spaten Ur-Maerzen, and even 
     their Pils, have a touch of sulphur in the nose that I find pleasant.  
     It seems to accentuate the maltiness of their beers.  If you wanted to 
     emulate this, you could keg when the nose is to your liking.  It may 
     not do well at contests, though.
     
     If you rack to the keg too soon you will also end up with a fair 
     amount of stuff at the bottom, which will make moving the keg and 
     serving clear beer difficult.  I would let it fall clear in a carboy, 
     then rack to a keg, carbonate, and lager.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:17:27 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Phil's philler cleaning

Does anyone know how to take apart a Phil's Philler for a real thorough
cleaning?  I always rinse mine (the philler) with hot water after using and
sanitize before using, but something (hop particles, trub?) must be stuck
in it because the two parts don't freely slide like they should.  I hang it
up to air dry, so I don't think I have a corrosion build up that's causing
the binding.


Return to table of contents


Date:     Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:44 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  secondary and lagering

collective homebrew conscience:


robert deneefe wrote:

><snip> now I'm
>not sure how to proceed.  The krausen has fallen completely but the airlock
>is still bubbling away every 10-20 seconds.  It's been in the fermenter 9
>days now. Do most of you lager brewers use a secondary, or do you transfer
>directly to your lagering vessel (for me, a corny) after fermentation has
>almost stopped?  I'd like to skip the secondary, but I don't want to end up
>with a bunch of junk in my corny, which I will serve from after lagering.

what i have done successfully is lager the beer in the primary or secondary,
and transfer to the keg when ready to drink.  force carbonation is used, so
yeast viability is not an issue for the final racking.  
                                           
this method is good if you're wanting to get  yeast and other things
(tannins, chill haze, etc.) to drop out and not be present in the keg, as 
long as you're careful when you rack.  

tip:  if you rack to secondary and lager in the secondary, you may want to 
purge the headspace with co2, particularly if there's not a lot of fermentation
going on at that point. this helps to flush out most of the free oxygen in the
headspace. 

tip: you can sanitize (or boil) a piece of aluminum foil and cover the mouth
of the carboy during lagering with the foil kept in place with rubber bands.
this prevents the dreaded "airlock suck" from happening as the headspace cools
and contracts.  if active fermentation is still pushing gas through the lock,
and you *gradually*  (~3-5 deg. f per day) lower the temperature down to 
lagering, you may not need to worry about the reverse sucking.   but watch it.


brew hard,

mark bayer
 

Return to table of contents


Date:     Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:04 -0600
From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject:  water analysis: denied

collective homebrew conscience:

recently i've moved to southern maryland.  in preparation for the upcoming
brew season, i've had my wife call the local water dept. to get a lab 
analysis sent to us.  i've done this before in atlanta and st louis, and i've
always been able to get this info. for free.

the local water dept. has no clue what i'm talking about.  they mentioned
that they test for nitrates every once in a while, but don't really know
what i'm talking about when i've asked for a mineral/hardness/alkalinity
analysis.  they referred me to the county health dept., who referred me back
to the local water dept.

they told my wife that they can come out and take a sample from our tap, and
do an analysis, but it will cost over a hundred dollars.

do i *not* have the right to know what's in my water, for free?  this has 
never been a problem before.

suggestions?

brew hard,

mark bayer

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: PickleMan <wrp2 at axe.humboldt.edu>
Subject: Re: Sanitation Simplicity Pt 2: Bottles

Rob,
	I am concerned with the conditions of my fridge environment as
well.  the thought of putting clean bottles in the fridge fully knowing
that there is a fan in there and that month-old, moldy bowl
of grapes (hey, it was hiding behind the array of condiments that never
move) gives me the willies.  Here's the solution: Get a 5 gal bucket with
a lid, fill with sanitizer sol'n and chill overnight in the fridge.  Cold
bottle are important for cpbf and soaking them in this chilled bath does
the trick.  I tried a couple variations on a whim.  First, I was in a
hurry so I threw ice into the sanitizer sol'n.  Then that worked so well
the last time I bottled, I threw in a couple 2-liter jugs of frozen water.
Didn't like the latter method because the jugs kept tipping over my
bottles in the bucket and I couldn't fit as many bottles in.  The only
warning I have for you the water gets cold.  With refridgeraton and ice,
it gets in the low 30's.  My girlfriend who used to hand me the bottles
refuses to stick her hand in the cold water and moved up the bottling line
to become the capper.  No matter, I take help where I can get since
bottling is clearly a process desinged for a 6-armed organism.

PickleMan
wrp2 at axe.humboldt.edu


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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:07:59 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: been there, done that




Fellow beerlings,

>When it got up to about 45 degrees C, I hooked up all the hoses again
>(accidentally squirting brown ale on the carpet when I forgot to shut
>the picnic tap--oops!) I poured a pint and took a taste.

This happened to me last Christmas.  I was hooking up my Christmas Ale
on Christmas eve.  I left the tap open on the other side of the wall.
After connecting the lines to the keg I started some laundry.  It wasn't
until I noticed the beer seeping under the wall that I realised that
something was wrong.  3 gallons into my new finished basement (read carpet,
walls).  Said a few words, well a lotta, that the SO didn't approve of.
BTW, this is not the first time I've ever had a beer/brewing related
disaster on Christmas eve.  Now I'll only consume (on C.eve) and then I'll
only do that in the comfort of my own home.

The moral of the story is ALWAYS make sure the tap is closed, vent the
pressure in the keg and make sure the CO2 is turned off and the line
vented.
Connect all the lines and make sure the tap is closed.  Turn on the CO2
and check for leaks, make sure the tap is closed.  Oh, did I mention, make
sure the tap is closed when servicing/changing kegs.

Whiskey's too rough, champagne costs too much,
vodka puts my mouth in gear.
This little refrain, will help me explain,
as a matter of fact, I love beer.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
'95 XLH 1200



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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:54:17 -0500
From: Mike Uchima <uchima at mcs.net>
Subject: mill gap for wheat

paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) sez:
> 
> Do those of you w/ adjustable MMs change the roller gap when 
> crushing wheat malt?
> 
> I've never changed the factory gap and am wondering if I SHOULD 
> be adjusting it when crushing wheat.

Well, I've actually got the fixed gap MM, not the adjustable one.
However, I've never had a problem crushing wheat malt in it. The crush
looks pretty good, and extraction has been reasonable. FWIW, I use 
Belgian or German wheat malt, which seems to have slightly larger
kernels than the US domestic stuff...

The only grain I've ever had a problem with in the fixed MM was unmalted
pearled barley. Had to run it through about 3 times...

- -- 
== Mike Uchima == uchima at mcs.net ==


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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:11:01 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: lagering weizens

Someone mentioned in yesterday's digest that he notices significant
improvement in his weizens if they've been stored in the 'fridge for a
couple of weeks.  I've noticed the same thing, two weeks in the fridge and
much improved.

I've long understood the benefit of cold storage for lagers, but what is it
that changes in a weizen? Anyone?


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:56:00 -0400
From: Chris King <king1679 at medic41.com>
Subject: Re: Zima Brewing

The response about brewing Zima by filtering it and then just adding 
lemon and lime flavoring is not even close. In an article in New Brewer 
or one of the other more industry related mags they explained it step by 
step. There are so many chemicals added (to stop head formation, to stop 
 color extraction etc). Very complicated and even if it was within our 
reach I would have no interest in brewing it.
Chris 
Edison, NJ

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:16:15 -0400
From: bveq97 at nestle.he.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: New Jersey Online- Home Brew Page, etc.

New Jersey (and else where)...
	New Jersey Online has a HomeBrew Page...  Several of the
News people are brewers like us...  Good startup articles and
a listing of recipies.  Located at:
	http://www.nj.com/features/beer
	
Finally did a batch this last weekend..  Tried to do a different
way than before on the mash conversion.

	9 lbs 2 row 
	1 lbs munich 
	1 lbs crystal (20 l)
	
	1 oz Perle (7.9%) (pellets)
	2.5 handfuls of Cascade (whole hops)
	
	Nottingham yeast.
	
Mash schedule: 90 degrees F - 40 min (acid rest)
	       125          - 30 min (acid rest !!  ) - got out my Millers book
	       138	    - 30 min (protein rest)
	       145	    -  5 min (first starch conversion)
	       158	    - 45 min (second starch conversion) (I like
a malty brew)
		168	    -  5 min mash out
		
	Lautered and sparged to 6.5 gallons..  Gravity was 1.030!!!
	Got up to boil and put in most of the perle and 2 hand fulls of
cascade (don't know the weight, I just took them out of the bag that I 
grew last year).  Boil 1 hour.  Last 5 min, last of Perle in.  During
fast cooling (immersion chiller), put in last of cascade.
	Decanted off wort from sludge, added water up to 5 gallon mark
on fermentor.  Gravity..  1.050!!!!!!  
	It will be going to my secondary tonight..  

	Ok, what did I do RIGHT???  I have never gotten such a good 
conversion/boil ever.  My best was 1.030 until this batch.
New things I did: Munich malt, and higher second starch temp.

Mark Witherspoon
                      ** Spammers, beware: **
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Sec. 227, any
and all unsolicited commercial e-mail sent to this address is  subject
to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 (U.S.); e-mailing 
denotes acceptance of these terms.

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:17:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: FivestarAE at aol.com
Subject: Five Star Products

Thanks to Randy Erickson for posting his report on testing our cleaning
products in HBD#2457.

I also want to thank all the HBD'ers who answered my post for volunteers.
Thanks to all the great feedback we received we are going to offer a cleaning
and sanitation kit designed just for homebrewers. 

We will introduce this kit at the homebrewers' conference next week and it
will be available for shipping in early August. We will be hanging around at
the conference, so if any of you are planning to attend please stop by and
say hi. We will also have samples of PBW to give out. 

We are talking to different distributers now to sell this kit to Homebrew
shops. For a short while we will sell it direct. Please check out our web
site at www. FivestarAF.com/homebrew for more information or E-mail to
FivestarAE at AOL.com.

Thanks again,

Wayne Waananen
Five Star Products and Services
Commerce City, Colorado

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:18:52 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: secondary or lager vessle, barbecue

Robert DeNeefe asked about using a secondary or going directly to the lagering
vessel.  I am hardly an expert on lagers but I have made a few.  Last weekend I
kegged one that had been lagering in the secondary for 4+ months at about 33F.
There was considerable sediment in the bottom of the carboy but the beer was
clear from the tap.  I lagered mine in carboys with airlocks as I thought it
would allow any unwanted gasses to escape.  I don't know if this is necessary
but I think the beer was better than one I lagered in a keg and relieved the
pressure on occasionally.  There are any number of things that could account
for the differences so I don't know that airlock lagering is necessarily better.
I do know that I got a lot of sediment in the bottom of the lagering
vessel/secondary, though, if that is a concern.

Rick Gontarek gave a recipe for barbecue.  The ribs prepared that way may be
good but they wont be barbecue.  Barbecue is prepared in a barbecue pit with a
separate firebox and cooked slowly for hours at about 275F.  Proper barbecue
should have a red ring on the outer edge called a smoke ring.  I may be picking
nits but I see a lot of reference to food cooked on a grill as barbecue and
that is not what it is.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:43:08 -0700
From: "Hunts, Jeff" <jhunts at CIWMB.ca.gov>
Subject: Potential Source of Free / Low Cost Equipment

Fellow H'Brewers:

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, musta been the beer...

When I'm not homebrewing I manage a program for the State of California
called CALMAX -- The California Materials Exchange -- aimed at finding
outlets for business waste materials. To provide this free service we
produce a quarterly catalog and maintain a website
(http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/mrt/calmax/calmax) that lists materials both
wanted and available throughout California. We also maintain a listing
of and links to material exchange programs throughout North America. 

Like that pointy haired boss in Dilbert, I'm sometimes not aware of all
the inner workings of my programs (a curse of management), but today I
was thumbing through the catalog and found TONS of listings for
available plastic buckets and drums. There was another listing for 400
SS Golden Gate 15.5 gal kegs ($10 each) from Eureka, CA, and even a
listing for a bottler washing machine -- free to non-profit -- from a
microbrewery (Mad River I believe).

While it would not be in the spirit of the CALMAX program to accept
"wanted" listings from individual homebrewers (since the service is
meant for businesses), I invite anyone looking for free or low-cost
equipment to visit the CALMAX website, search the materials "available"
section (the above mentioned items were under "Containers" and Durable
Goods") and see what they might find. For those in other parts of the
world, I'm sure the material exchanges we link to in other states and
provinces would be great resources as well.

This is NOT a commercial posting, but simply info about a free service
offered by the State of CA that anyone with imagination could benefit
from.  Once again, CALMAX is at
http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/mrt/calmax/calmax 

Good luck and happy brewing. 
========
Jeffery L. Hunts
jhunts at ciwmb.ca.gov
Donner Party Homebrewing
"Goes Great With Finger-Food!"



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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:02:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Ugh/chilling bottles and foil caps/B+T/yeast starters and reuse

Dave writes:
>on opening the bottles.   I had forgotten all about adiabatic expansions
>and Carnot Cycles.  Thanks for the memories but:  =

Ugh.  It's been 15+ years and just the mention of these words gives me
the willies.

***
Ken writes:
>enzymes to break down the starch.  Yeast can't metabolize starch, but
>bacteria can, so you're asking for trouble if you're not careful.  Adding a

Minor correction: Saccharomyces cerevisiae cannot metabolize starch, but
other yeasts, e.g. Saccharomyces diastaticus, can.  Ken's advice is sound,
nonetheless.

***
Robert writes:
>Rob Kienle asked about chilling bottles when using a CPF.  I've only used
>my CPF once, but since I was only bottling a few bottles I decided to go
>all out and chill them.  After sanitizing them, I wrapped each mouth with a
>small piece of sanitized aliminum foil.  This should have kept any nasties
>out.  I don't know if chilling is really all that neccessary, but if you
>want to chill, a bit of aluminum foil should curtail any fears about bugs.

One word of caution: if the foil has made an airtight seal, it will implode
when the air in the bottle cools and contracts, so you'll have a hole in your
foil.

There are those that may say: "Well, if you don't seal the bottle airtight,
the cooling air will suck nasties into the bottle!"

Practically speaking, however, the amount of dust and debris that gets
sucked into your priming vessel during bottling is hundreds of times
greater than that which would be sucked into these bottles during
cooling.

***
Rob writes:
>	A lady customer recently asked for a "Black and Tan" made with raspberry

I'd like to discourage everyone from using the expression "Black and Tan"
and in stead use the term "Half and Half."  Although I'm a devout anglophile,
I'm very much against what the "Black and Tans" did in Ireland.  Rent
the movie "Michael Collins" if you're unfamiliar.  Enough politics...
back to beer...

***
Marc writes:
>Question #1; Is it a good idea to decant off the "spent" wort after each
>step (each rise and fall of krausen) and replenish it with new sterile
>wort? And if so, what is a good volume of new wort to use?

If the yeast is truly all settled, then it would not hurt to pour-off the
the spent wort and add more.  The rule of thumb on stepping-up depends
on who you listen to.  German commercial brewers will tell you a 5-fold
step-up is ideal (10ml -> 50ml -> 250ml -> 1250ml...).  I've read where
American commercial brewers say 10-fold is fine.  Most homebrewers often
do 20-fold step-ups and make great beer, so you can take you pick.

If the yeast is not fully settled and you pour off the partially-spent
wort, you are selecting for more-flocculent yeast (i.e. throwing away the
less-flocculent yeast, which is generally more attenuative).  Doing this
once or twice will probably not show a measurable or noticeable difference
in the finished beer, but when reusing yeast and doing this over and over,
you will select for more-flocculent (quite probably less-attenuative) yeast.

>Question #2; I read somewhere that you should treat the starter culture
>with the same procedures (ie ingredients, temperature, etc.) as you will
>use for the actual brew itself. Is this a good procedure?

Well, I've read this and also I've read where you are making yeast and
not beer, so you want to give the most ideal conditions for reproduction
rather than the most ideal conditions for good beer flavour.  Personally,
I build up my lager starters at around 55 to 60F, which is warmer than
I ferment the main wort, but cooler than I keep my ale starters.

>does not have as much trub in it and it at least appears to be cleaner,
>if you know what I mean. This slurry sample was still relatively active
>and I added about 250 ml of fresh sterile wort to it in an Erlenmeyer
>flask and topped it with an airlock. It is still active a week later. I
>intend to store this in my bank at 45 F. I don't know when I will use
>this yeast I know this subject has been addressed recently and at the
>risk of beating a dead horse I will ask it anyway.
>Question #1; What care and/or maintenance will this culture need and
>should I continue to refresh the wort from time to time to keep it
>healthy and propagating?

If you want to keep the *strain* alive, you are best off making a slant
or stab and creating a new one (or five!) every six months.  If you
want to keep the whole yeast starter viable, you should keep it cold
and feed it periodically.  I would feed it once a week, but this is
what has worked for me, not something I have read in any books.  If you
need more info on stabs and slants, Brewer's Resource, The Yeast Culture
Kit Company (Dan McConnell), and Advanced Brewers Scientific have
supplies and instructions.  I know the first two have websites.

>Question #2; Is it truly better to gather used yeast slurry from the
>primary as opposed to the secondary and why?

It goes back to the issue of selection.  Personally, I use the yeast
from the primary when I'm going to make a Barleywine or Doppelbock.
The yeast from the secondary will have less break material mixed-in.
If you are doing it only one or two generations, it's not going to
make a difference regarding selection.  However, if you repeatedly
reuse the yeast for 5 or 10 batches, yeast from the primary will *tend*
to be more flocculent, whereas yeast from the secondary will *tend* to
be less flocculent.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:48:22 -0600
From: hall at galt.c3.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Atom Masher Web Site has moved

The new location for the Atom Masher Homebrew Club web site is:

  http://hbd.org/users/atommash
  
All of the underlying structure is the same as it was before. For
example, if you had a link to our "Goodies Page", the new location is:

  http://hbd.org/users/atommash/goodies.html
  
Please inform me of any broken links.

Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of Livonia, Michigan
for sponsoring our homebrew club site. (URL: http://www.oeonline.com)

 -Mike

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael L. Hall, Ph.D.               <hall at lanl.gov>                    |
| President, Los Alamos Atom Mashers   <http://hbd.org/users/atommash>    |
| Member, AHA Board of Advisors        <http://www.beertown.org/aha.html> |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+


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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:59:01 -0400
From: "Lee Carpenter" <leec at redrose.net>
Subject: Beetles

Stir Doctors,

Well, the beetles have become board with my hop leaves and have started
eating my smaller, immature flowers. I should be able to pick my first wave
in a couple of days. They seem to be ignoring the biggest cones (thank
God). I just threw beetle bags numbers 5 & 6 into the trash. Already more
than all of last year. 
Next year, NEXT YEAR, my mission in life is to defeat the beetles!!
Hopefully, with the help I've received from the brewing clan, I'll be able
to give it a go.

P.S.- When I saw the beetles eating my flowers I went to the garage and
kicked my wife's Honda. That'll show 'em!!

LEE

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline--it
helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons,
but at the very least you need a beer."
                                       -- Frank Zappa


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