---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RE: Can I save this batch??? (John_E_Schnupp)
  Santa Fe ("S J")
  hop drying (John Lifer Jr)
  Carbonation problem (Red Wheeler)
  Malta ("Lorena Barquin Sanchez")
  Mash Calculator Formulas (Pat Anderson)
  Oregon Brewers Festival (George De Piro)
  Madison, WI brewpubs (Brian Amick)
  Concentrated Boils (Eewww gross) -- No-Sparge, Batch-Sparge, Etc. (KennyEddy)
  Brews Traveler (korz)
  Custom Propane Element ("Michael Wood")
  Re: St. Louis Brewpubs and bars (silva)
  Re: Poor judging ("Mark S. Johnston")
  False Bottoms ("August R Buerkle")


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  hbd.org 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hbd.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.) 

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! 
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org

Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org

Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:

  Anonymous ftp from...
	hbd.org	/pub/hbd	
	ftp.stanford.edu	/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
  E-mail...
        ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com (send a one-line e-mail message with 
                                   the word help for instructions.)
  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:46:06 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: RE: Can I save this batch???




>The beer was first brewed probably 2 months ago.  I would have to
>check my records.  Anyway,  has anyone else out there had a similar
>circumstance and saved their batch.  I am pretty embarrassed about
>this because I usually bottle within 2 weeks of the beer being in the
>secondary.  I guess the only bright spot is that my yard looks great...

I would suspect that this is an infection of some sort.  In that case
it wouldn't matter when you bottle.  If the beer is infected it's
infected.  The only difference is you might not see as well in brown
bottles.  If it dosen't taste or smell undrinkable I'd bottle it.


John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
'95 XLH 1200



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:43:40 PDT
From: "S J" <brewthat at hotmail.com>
Subject: Santa Fe

Will be going to Santa Fe in October and would like info on BrewPub, 
MicroBrew and any homebrew shops in the area.
Email any info or post here. 
Thanks
SRJ

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:05:20 -0500
From: John Lifer Jr <jliferjr at mail.misnet.com>
Subject: hop drying

Mark Johnston had a question on hop drying.  I purchased a home
dehydrator and have used it successfully for a couple of years.  My unit
is quite cheap and has no provisions for adjusting the temp.  I just
spread the hops out and dry them for about an hour or so.  Just watch
them for overdrying.  I then take them and stuff into freezer bags and
freeze.  Sure I could use a barrier bag but I don't have any idea what
alpha value I hav anyway.  Just my opinion. 
John  in Mississippi


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:16:48 -0400
From: Red Wheeler <fwheeler at mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Carbonation problem

Recently, I had a problem with the carbonation of a batch of beer that maybe
someone has experienced or can suggest what went wrong and how to prevent it.

Most of the bottles of a batch of ESB were normal but about every fifth
bottle was almost uncarbonated. When opened there was no sound of escaping
gas and very few bubbles when poured. The beer tasted okay, I had to drink
each one just to be certain, but the bittering may have covered something.
Normally I put the priming sugar in the bottling bucket first then rack the
beer onto it without stirring. This time after adding the beer I stirred it.
That was the only major change made in technique. Since then I went back to
my original technique and the next batch, a brown ale, is carbonated as it
should be. Thanks for any help you can give.

Red
in Blue Bell, PA


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:52:58 -0400
From: "Lorena Barquin Sanchez" <mbarquin at telcel.net.ve>
Subject: Malta

Gentlemen:

Sorry for not replying before but I did not want to send information that
was incomplete and it was only today that I was able to talk to a friend
brewmaster that works for one of the breweries in Venezuela that makes
Malta.

Malta was is a wort of about 14 degrees Plato. Historically, it was made
using only malts, hence the believe that it was liquid food. Remember, this
wort was bottled without fermentation and it was also thought to help
nursing mothers.

Today, malta is still largely made out of malts.  The usual recipe is:
			80% Pale ale malt
			15% Caramel malt
			5% Chocolate malt
Bittering hops are used.  Breweries use the same types of hops they use in
their Lager beers.  I was not told exactly how much bittering units, but
you should hardly be able to appreciate it. The brewmaster of the brewery I
talked to uses Cluster hops in pellet form. 

The bad part of the story is that eventually, breweries trying to lower
their production costs started to use adjunts and sugars.  Eventually the
government had to step in, remember that malta is considered food, and
restricted the use of sugar to no more than 50% of the sugars in the wort,
that is 7 degrees Plato can come from malts and adjunts, and the other 7
degrees Plato from just about any king of sugar(!).

To make Malta look always the same, caramel coloring is used to adjust
color.

Well, that is how Malta is made.  Now I am curious about the taste of Malta
if only malts are used.  Perhaps my next batch will be a Malta.  I will
inform.

Salud

Lorenzo Barquin
Maracay,Venezuela



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:15:35 -0700
From: Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net>
Subject: Mash Calculator Formulas

Some time ago, Dave Draper was kind enough to provide me his BASIC program
code for calculating estimated IBUs, which I incorporated into a little
freeware Windoze calculator (TINIBUW.ZIP at the Brewery).

I am interested in doing a similar thing for a program for calculating hot
water infusions for mashing, along the line of the Suds calculator. I would
make this a little freeware ditty as well.

There are really two calculations, probably the same equation solved for a
different variable:  (1) Given the quantity of grain (lbs.), a desired mash
thickness (quarts/lb.), and hence a known volume of strike liquor, and a
desired mash temperature (degrees), what must the temperature of the strike
liquor be?  (2)  Given the mash temperature and quantities per (1), what
volume of boiling water must be added to achieve a boost to a second desired
temperature?

Maybe a little radio button to select US or metric measurements would be nice.

If anybody can point me to the formula for these calculations, I would be
grateful!



 
- ---
Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net>


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:57:43 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Oregon Brewers Festival

     Hi all,
     
     I'll be in Portland, OR, for the brewers festival next weekend.  In 
     the days following the festival, I'll be looking for some beer in both 
     Portland and Seattle.  Any  suggestions?
     
     I've been to Oregon a few times, but have never been to Seattle.
     
     Private E-mail by Monday the 21st, please.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:08:32 -0700
From: Brian Amick <baamick at seidata.com>
Subject: Madison, WI brewpubs

I'll be in Madison, Wi, next week.  Does anyone know of any brewpubs in 
the area that are worth a visit?  Also, are the tours of the big brewerys 
in Milwaukee worth the drive?  Thanks.

Brian Amick
Dickens Beverage Co.---Coming this fall...Dickens Cider!!!

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:23:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Concentrated Boils (Eewww gross) -- No-Sparge, Batch-Sparge, Etc.

Jeff Tonole asks:

"Have any of you in the collective tried a concentrated all-grain boil?"

Well, by golly, yes I have.  My first few all-grain batches were done in a
similar fashion to your technique.  They turned out just fine (real well in
fact) and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to do all-grain but
doesn't have the space/equipment for a full-blown three-tier type system.

Pitfalls?  As you mention, hop utilization is one; your concentrated
all-grain wort will be comparable in gravity to an extract wort, so whatever
your hop habits have been in the past, should be fine.

The other pitfall might be in the amount of grain you have to use.  There are
a couple of "non-standard" mashing/sparging methods which are applicable
here, which we have discussed on the HBD in the recent past.  Since you are
limited in the volume of wort you can collect, you will probably not be able
to extract all of the available sugar from the mash tun, so you'll need extra
grain to compensate.

No-sparge brewing would be perhaps the simplest, albeit the most inefficient,
method.  It involves mashing the grain in a mash/lauter tun and simply
draining the grain bed dry.  You draw off "concentrated" wort, but you also
leave a lot behind, absorbed in the grain itself.  Because of this fact, you
need to mash extra grain to compensate.  How much extra grain you have to use
is not clear; it depends a lot on your system and how well you drain the
mash.  Figures from 33% to 100% more grain have been tossed around.  The
important thing to remember here is that your gravity will be limited by your
mashtun volume; a 5-gallon cooler will get you in the 1.040 - 1.060 range,
depending on how much grain & water you use and how well you drain the mash.
 Keep extra extract on hand to make up any shortfall.  See HBD's from around
Christmastime 1996 for a discussion thread with actual data.

Batch-sparging is perhaps the best way to go.  Drain off most or all of the
wort (recirculate first), then add more hot water all at once to the grain,
stir, recirculate, and drain again.  By doing this, you're recovering most of
the remaining wort which would otherwise be left behind in no-sparge brewing.
 Therefore little if any "extra" grain is needed.  The advantage of this
technique over normal sparging (which is curiously called "fly" sparging) is
that you don't have to provide a means of adding sparge water at a rate
matching the mash tun outflow, as is typically done in traditional three-tier
setups.  Just dump the sparge water onto the drained grain bed, stir, recirc,
drain again.  You'll extract most if not all of the sugars using this method.

While this method does recover more sugars, it also supplies more liquid
volume, and so if you are limited for wort boiling volume, plan the session
carefully.  You don't *have* to drain *all* of the wort on the second go;
just drain what you can use and write off the rest.  Or, you can use less
sparge water.  After draining the first runnings, add a volume of sparge
water equal to the remaining capacity of your boiler, stir, recirc, and drain
that.  So you're either getting more of a lower-gravity second runoff or less
of a higher gravity runoff; it's probably a toss-up as to which is better.
 I'd guess that you'll have an easier time draining if you have more water in
the tun.  See HBD's from about two months ago for further discussions on
batch sparging.

One oft-mentioned variation of batch-sparging involves adding sparge water a
little at a time, more than one would if fly-sparging but less than if
batch-sparging.  Three or four (or whatever) additions of sparge water are
made while the wort is draining, and the grain bed is not stirred after
lautering begins.  I guess this makes it a closer relative to fly-sparging
than batch-sparging.  You don't have to monitor the water level continously,
but you will have to check periodically as the sparge water drains through,
and add more when the water drops toward the top of the grain bed.  Again, if
you have a five-gallon mash vessel, the available headroom left after the
grain and mash water is added will limit the amount of sparge water which can
be added at a time.

Just for sake of round figures, a 5-gal container will hold about 10 - 12 lb
of grain plus mash water at a rate of 1.33 qt/lb.  At 75% efficiency, fully
fly-sparged, this would yield wort in the range of 1.054 - 1.065 in 5 gallons
of finished wort; no-sparge would yield anywhere from 1.025 to 1.045; and
batch-sparging perhaps 1.040 to 1.060.  Take good notes and develop your own
technique.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:32:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Brews Traveler

Tony writes:
> what causes a beer to not travel well?

Oxidation, usually: beer that has had a significant amount of aeration
(either while the wort is hot or after fermentation) will get stale
much faster than a beer that has been handled more gently during
production.  Yeast help protect from oxidation, so bottle-conditioned
beers travel better than filtered ones.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


Return to table of contents


Date:          Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:30:11 +0000
From: "Michael Wood" <thor at dnai.com>
Subject:       Custom Propane Element

I'm in the midst of making a custom brewery setup based partially on 
Propane heating. After using a variety of elements from Metal Fusion
 and Camp chef, I've wondered if I could make something custom.
The design of a propane burner seems pretty basic. There's an 
adjustable air inlet for adjusting the air mixture, there's a certain number 
of holes in the top of the camp chef burner from which the propane/air  
mixture comes out

This is what I'm proposing to do: I want to fashion a burner from some
stainless steel tubing I have and weld it together with my tig torch.
 I would fashion the tubing into a U with caps on the end and a fitting at 
the base of the U for adjusting the air mixture and allowing the propane 
to enter. Along the arms of the "U" I would drill holes and weld a small 
1/8" tall piece of tubing to each hole so that the flame comes out straight 
like the Camp Chef burner. I figure the dimensions to be about 10" wide, 
20" long and try and get the total area of the holes close to the area of the
 camp chef's so the pressure would be about the same. 

What kinds of problems am I overlooking? I realize that the mixing of the
air with the propane could be on of them. 

Michael Wood
- -----------------------------------------------------------
email addresses: mikew at ricochet.net, thor at realbeer.com,
                 thor at dnai.com, thor at onthemenu.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:37:34 -0700
From: silva <silva at realbeer.com>
Subject: Re: St. Louis Brewpubs and bars

> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:31:00 +0000
> From: prahloma at mail.milwaukee.k12.wi.us (Matthew Prahlow)
> Subject: St. Louis Brewpubs and bars
>
> I am going to St. Louis in a few weeks and would like to know of any
> brewpubs to visit.  Also, any good bars to go to for meals and good
beers?
> Please respond to my email address.
> Matt
>

Hi, Matt,

I got this off of a quick search from the Real Beer Page brewtour
database at http://www.realbeer.com

You can search right from the front page or click on the brewtour
button to do more detailed searches.

Cheers! silva


The Saint Louis
Brewery **Check this one out!**

2100
Locust St., St. Louis,
Missouri 63103
United States

Phone: (314) 241-2337

Brewpub

Microbrewery

- Distribution

 - Beer To Go

Ask for Sara Choler & Tell her "hi" from us.


Signature Beer Co.

2737 Hereford St., St. Louis,
Missouri 63139


Phone: (314) 772-5911

Contract Brewery


Anheuser-Busch Inc.

1 Busch Place, St Louis,
Missouri 63118


Phone: (314) 577-2000

National Brewery


Custom Brew Haus

6701 Clayton Road, St. Louis,
Missouri
63117

Phone: (314) 726-2739

F6ax: (314) 726-1130

Brewpub

Brew your own beer on premise.



St. Charles - Near by


Trailhead Brewing Co

PO Box 879

921 S Riverside Dr., St. Charles,
Missouri
63302-0879

Phone: (314) 946-2739

Fax: (314) 946-1297

Brewpub




Publishers of:                                Real Beer Inc.
The Real Beer Page                        2339 Third Street, Suite 23
http://www.realbeer.com             S.F., CA 94107
The ProBrewer Page                      415.522.1516 - voice
http://www.probrewer.com          415.522.1535 - fax
BEERWeek                                      realbeer at realbeer.com
http://www.beerweek.com           Internet Publishers &
RBPMail                                                      
Consultants

rbpmail-request@ realbeer.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:40:48 -0400
From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net>
Subject: Re: Poor judging

Pete Garafolo replied to Bob Talkiewicz's comments on the Lancaster
Evening session:

>Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with this particular scene. The
>"judge" in question was actually trashing a flight of bocks, including my
>doppelbock which had taken third best of show a month earlier. I received
>a whopping 24.5, along with the helpful comment that this OG *1.087*
>(apologies to Bill Giffin) doppelbock "would have scored higher as a
>bock." Also, the FG of 1.026 left the body "thin for d. bock." Thanks a
>bunch! Now I know that I should enter a parody of the intended style to
>score well with this particular judge.

	I, too, remember this as I was sitting in the third flight of the Bocks.
I recall that the judges at the other end did nothing but moan about how
bad their flight of beers were. By the time they were halfway through, I
knew there would be a problem. When I tried to get the Mini-BOS together
and found that they had dumped one of their highest scorers (in spite of
repeated statements at the beginning that they should save at least 2
beers for the mini-BOS), I was proven right. 

>I don't mean to make a big deal of this, but wish to mention that the
>Lancaster organizer was very concerned (upset, even) about this trashing
>session. I know that the highest-scoring beer from this flight (a split
>flight) scored around 24 (one--guess whose--was dumped before the flight
>was completed). It placed in the final three for the overall group in a
>mini-BoS, so this judge and his partner were way off. So it goes.

	I don't recall the actual beers that advanced. The rep from the infamous
flight did acknowledge that "This tastes better than it did before." when
their beer was critiqued.
	And yes, I believe I can speak for the organizer in saying that he tried
like hell to avoid situations such as this. He works hard to pair known
"problem judges" with more level headed personalities to balance out the
flight. Sometimes, though, things can't be helped. 

>I guess the point is this: we all get a raw deal occasionally; our goals
>should be to make sure that WE never give someone else such a screwing
>when judging, and that we can either sit back and bitch or do something.
>Personally, I would like to make a positive contribution so that this
>type of tale becomes rare.

	A magnanimous viewpoint. I do believe that this type of thing is getting
rarer. But it's not extinct yet.

- -- 
"If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a
conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind."  - Winston
Churchill


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:34:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "August R Buerkle" <buerkle at seas.upenn.edu>
Subject: False Bottoms

All You Brewers,

	I am looking for information on false bottom geometries.  My planned 
system is a RIMS with a large diameter (22") mash 
tun (not a cut keg).  I have the tanks already, but I have not yet made 
the false bottom.  Where can I find the results 
of a previous discussion, if any, or does anyone have any relevant findings 
they would like to share?  Specifically, any wisdom addressing mash 
liquid flow, grain leakage through the false bottom, extraction rates, 
etc relative to false bottom geometry is desired.

	Thanks in advance.  Email at buerkl at cooper.edu is great.

Return to table of contents

---