HOMEBREW Digest #2483 Wed 13 August 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Gas Flow Characteristics (Bob.Sutton)
  Re: A/B Born On (Joe Rolfe)
  Carbonation Problems!!! (Tim Steffens)
  Re:Buying LME from Williams Brewing? (SANDY COCKERHAM)
  re: Budweiser's born-on bull ("Randy J. Lee")
  Cherry juice in beer (nkanous)
  IMKR? (Bob.Sutton)
  Extract IPA ideas (Matthew Arnold)
  Wilted, Flaked barley, ("David R. Burley")
  Blue Moon: Coors responds (Graham Barron)
  100 IBU IPA's (Matt Gadow)
  Fermentors for 10+ gallon batches (Barry Browne)
  Malta as a Yeast Starter (Katy or Delano DuGarm)
  Flying Brews ("Michael R. Frank")
  Killing Lactic bad guys (Randy Ricchi)
  RE: Budweiser's born-on bull ("Mike Blakey")
  Experiments with Sorghum Molasses (Kit Lemmonds)
  Old Ale Recipe Question (Charles Burns)
  re:keg baggage (Mench5)
  jockey box / leaking CO2 tank ("Keith Royster")
  apple juice starters//recent topics (smurman)
  Carbonation in small bottles (al_ru)
  Roasted barley. How?? (Alessandro Calamida)
  PBS Hopback ("Alan McKay")
  Re: Extraction Efficiencies (Fredrik Staahl)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 8:18:00 -0400 From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Gas Flow Characteristics efouch at steelcase.com mused: >>>Should the regulator be between the flow meter and the tank, or between the flow meter and the burner (providing back pressure)?<<< It really depends on what you're trying to control - gas flow or burner pressure. If you want consistent flow control the regulator should be installed upstream of the flowmeter. This ensures the flowmeter sees a constant pressure, not subject to the thermally induced pressure fluctuations in your tank which could affect the accuracy of your meter reading (unless you're using a ma$$ flowmeter). You could add a pressure gauge at the burner inlet and tweak the regulator during operation to deliver 10 psig. If you want consistent pressure at your burner, the regulator should be located downstream from the flowmeter, >>>Will a 20 foot line behave the same (in terms of flame size and BTU output) as a 50 foot line for the same regulator/flow meter configuration?<<< Not quite. A longer line to the burner will result in less gas flow if all else is unchanged (meaning that you added an additional 30 foot of line to the 20 foot setup, without adjusting the pressure regulator or the flow valve). When the gas line length is increased, the pressure/flow into the burner will be less. You could compensate for this by increasing the regulator pressure setting (up to a point, since your limited to the tank pressure), or opening your flow valve. Clear? Oh well :( Disclaimer: In trying to imagine your setup, I've probably made some rash assumptions which necessarily discount the validity of these comments. I'd be disappointed if someone didn't make a wholesale stab at a counter-argument. Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:22:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> Subject: Re: A/B Born On hey now;) lets not bash bud, if you know what beer making is about then these guys are the king...granted the marketing end is not on par with the production.....now i will get tons of email to the other end of this scale .... seeing a born on (which is the date of packaging not brewing) on the day it was born is not out of the question. i cant vouch for the guy setting up the date for the run but it is possible. erom what i have heard - the older/smaller bud plants around the country are brewing. some spot shortages are occuring. plus seeing that the bud distributors have "99.99% share of mind" ok and widmer get the rest...) fast turns out of the warehouse are happening locally (Northeast of boston). seems the thirty packs are flying...drink on the same day as packaged - how much fresher can it be - if it true.. oh and fermentation is a day - yeah it is possible but the equipment is pretty expensive for a homebrewer budget. so flame away for my sticking up for bud.... joe jrolfe at mc.com >from: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> >subject: Budweiser's born-on bull > {SNIP} >Notwithstanding the fact that I've never seen a distributor move beer >that quickly, something seems more than a little fishy about Bud's >"born on" dates here. Even for as something as thin as Bud produced by >heavily industrial mechanisms, there's no way in hell that a >fermentation could be completed in a day. And I would guess Bud's >"exclusive beechwood aging" takes a bit longer than a few hours as >well. > Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:52:50 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Steffens <tsteffen at indyvax.iupui.edu> Subject: Carbonation Problems!!! Hi gang, I've been listening for some time known and what a great format. Kudos to list master(s). I've been having a problem with carbonation. I've started brewing again after 6 years and my last 2 batches have had little to NO carbonation. The first batch was a basic American Wheat all extract brew. 2 stage fermenter. When I racked it to the 2nd fermenter the bubbles in the air lock were about 6 minutes apart. I think I left it go to long? When I racked it to the bottling bucket I added the sugar directly to the brew and stirred it very gently as not to add any air. In the end some were more carbonated than others but none were carbonated like they should be. The second batch I just opened yesterday and NONE of it carbonated this time. This was a Brown Ale part grain and extract. I kept the yeast in the starter to long and killed it. Put I rehydrated some more and it was churning like mad with in 24 hours. And again I think I waited to long to rack it to the second fermenter. The bubbles were 6-8 minutes apart. This time I made a sugar starter, boiled some water, let it cool, and pitched the sugar to that. Added the started to the bottling bucket and racked the brew. Waited 2 weeks and NO carbonation. What am I doing wrong? Am I waiting to long to rack it to the 2nd fermenter or is it something when I bottle it? HELP!!! Tim Steffens, CRA Indiana University Medical Center tsteffen at indyvax.iupui.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:02:26 +0000 (GMT) From: SANDY COCKERHAM <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at LILLY.COM> Subject: Re:Buying LME from Williams Brewing? I have purchased these bags of LME from Williams in the past with some success (and some hideous failures.) I am recalling a great SNPA clone... Their pale LME is Alexander's (I think.) However, I found another mail order that I like better for this. Check out HopTech (I think the website is http://www.hoptech.com) as they sell Alexander's LME in light, amber, dark, and wheat at a pretty good price. Last I ordered was 1.79/lb. and it comes in half pound increments. If you order at least 7 lb. you don't have to pay for the nice little plastic bucket that they come in. The buckets are handy for storing crystal malt and such later on. If your order totals 40.00 or more there is no shipping added. I was always frustrated by the shipping prices from Williams, as Indiana is a long way from their location in California! These two suppliers are located pretty close to each other. Hope this helps, Sandy Cockerham (no affiliation, blah, blah, blah) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:11:30 -0500 From: "Randy J. Lee"<rjlee at imation.com> Subject: re: Budweiser's born-on bull First off, the Born on dating is just that; when the thing was packaged. I use "conceived on dating"; when the thing was brewed. Still, Distributors have *some* stock of beer so incoming beer would be delayed getting to the streets unless the distributor screwed up and didn't rotate stock. Also, distributors generally load trucks during the night so the drivers can jump in and go in the morning (they have a long day as it is without having to wait for a truck to load up). This date thing you mention is *very* interesting indeed. Randy Lee Viking Brewing Company Dallas, WI. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:22:34 -0400 (EDT) From: nkanous at tir.com (nkanous) Subject: Cherry juice in beer Greetings, Stopped at the local orchard yesterday and found some 1/2 gal and gallon bottles of "cherry juice". The label said that it is made entirely from the juice of tart cherries. Anybody ever used juices of this sort in brewing fruit beers? Any suggestions for quantities? This probably has been sweetened before its pateurization. It would probably be easiest to add to the secondary to allow any fermentation to take place. Any simple ways to check fermentability without resorting to clinitest sticks or anything? I suppose I could ferment just enough to fill my hydrometer, eh? Thanks. Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:13:00 -0400 From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com Subject: IMKR? Having survived a new level of physical pain brought on by kidney stones (some say it exceeds birth - I don't plan to go that route), I found some disturbing medical advice straight from the National Institute of Health (NIH). When the urologist stopped by to check on my progress, he stated that I should increase my fluid intake to help flush these pesky buggers from my system. Gee - I thought - a nobrainer - until he passed on the NIH recommendations to reduce BEER intake if your predisposed to kidney stones (whatever that means). Well I can easily deal with the reduction of asparagus, collards and rhubarb in my diet... but BEER? It seems to me the NIH has taken a wrong turn somewhere. For you chemists out there, kidney stones are typically formed from calcium oxalate. Since I haven't brewed with oxalic acid - and my calcium hardness is no worse that drinking water in many parts of the world - I'm puzzled by the reasons to reduce beer intake maybe the NIH was thinking "Bud"). Any idea why beer shows up as a for kidney stone promoter? Maybe we need to have warning labels on our brews. Should I stop drinking - Is My Kidney Ruined? Cheers! Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:13:48 GMT From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Extract IPA ideas Greetings, oh mighty collective, I'm considering brewing an extract-specialty grains IPA. My goal with this beer is threefold: 1) Keep it simple: thus no partial mashing, 2) Experiment with high-alpha hops, 3) Consider dry-hopping. Here's the recipe idea: Zoot's EPA, Mk II (Zoot is my dog. I call is an "E"PA because she cries or "eeps" when she can't join in the brewing fun) 6.6# Northwestern Gold LME 1.5# Northwestern Gold DME 1# 40L Crystal 2 oz Galena pellets (12% AAU, 60 minutes) and 1 oz Cascade pellets (3.5% AAU, 10 minutes) 1 oz Cascade pellets (ditto, dry hopped in secondary) or 1 oz Willamette pellets (5.1% AAU, 10 minutes) 1 oz Willamette pellets (ditto, dry hopped in secondary 2 pkgs Danstar Nottingham or 1 starter of Wyeast #1028 London SUDS figures this will come out to an original gravity of 1.065 and 85.4 IBUs using Tinseth's numbers figuring on a four-gallon boil. 85.4 might seem to be a little extreme, but my hop utilization hasn't been everything I might like, plus I'll be using a hop bag and probably a blow-off tube. Plus, if it is too bitter I'll just let it sit in the bottle for a few months. I chose Galena for bittering because it is supposed to be a more neutral bittering hop. I will use either Cascade or Willamette, depending on if I'm in a more American or English mood when I'm at the brewshop. I will probably end up using the dry yeast just for the sake of goal #1. I've got two questions. 1) How does the recipe look, especially to you hop-heads? 2) What's the best way (!) to dry hop? I thought about putting the oz of pellets in the secondary and then racking the beer on top of them. Will it be too difficult to keep the pellets in there and not get them in the bottling-bucket come bottling time? Will one oz of Cascades be too overpowering? How about the Willamette? (OK, that's more than two questions. Mea culpa.) Any thoughts, hints, anecdotes would be welcome. N.B., I do not have access (other than by mail-order) to whole leaf hops. Thanks, Matt Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:12:01 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Wilted, Flaked barley, Brewsters: Now Compuserve tells me my "=3D" signs problem = ( and I see other Compuserve subscribers with the same problem) is because they upgraded to a Mime program which converts to Latin-1 ( isn't that a dead language?) and this HBD server can't understand this Latin-1. Thanks a lot. So I'll try to remember to shorten the lines to less the 60 Ch. - ---------------------------------- Tom Herlache corrects this amateur botanist by correctly stating that Verticillium and Fusarium are in fact fungi diseases and not viral diseases. My Ortho Home Gardener's Problem Solver states also that there is no known chemical treatment (which I knew from an earlier life and why I thought it was a virus) and that it is a fungus and only the = addition of fertilizer is recommended to make the plant stronger and withstand the attack. Soil fumigation is recommended. And the selection of resistant plants. = Thanks to Jay Reeves for commenting on the irregular water patten and not enough sun as being another potential cause for this yellowing of the lower leaves. I fit his possibility also. - --------------------------------------------- = Doug Moyer asks about using flaked barley with extract batches. If the extract has no diastatic power don't bother or your third suggestion is best. Mash the Barley with some pale malt in a ratio of about 1:1. I suggest that if a thicker head is desired that a single infusion mash at 155F = is probably inadequate. Stop for 15 -30 minutes at 122F then heat up to 155F and finish the mashing for 30 minutes, strain and drain and rinse and add the extract plus the necessary water, boil, add hops. etc. Use 1 quart of water per pound of grain - so 2 quarts for this mashing. = The soluble protein formed at 122F will provide the head you desire.. The 155F hold will provide you with fermentable sugars and some dextrins. Holding at 158F instead of 155F will give you more dextrins. - ----------------------------------------------- Ian Smith says: >Also there has been talk of a "grassy" smell/taste associated with home grown >hops on the HBD. Does anyone know how to avoid/eliminate this ? I plan on >using a food dehydrator to dry my hops - how do I know when they are dry ? = Grassy smelling hops ( if I am imagining it correctly) I'm guessing may be due to a "silage" smell and perhaps explains why the professionals treat their green hops with sulfur dioxide to prevent spoilage while drying. Try getting a sulfur candle from your HB store or buying sulfur at the drugstore and burning that so the vapor passes through the clusters before they are dried. I have also smelled hops that are too dry when picked and they do have a sort of dried grassy smell. To test for correct dryness, place a small cheesecloth bag containing a weighed amount = of hops in the drier with the rest of the hops and weigh it every 12 hours or so. When you get a = fairly steady weight then the hops are as dry as they will get with your method. Hops will lose about 80% of their picked weight. - ------------------------------------------------ Rob Sprecher says: >What's the best filter size to use for filtering beer. >I've seen 0.5, 1, 5, 10, and 20 micron filters. Any recommendations? First see the latest issue of Zymurgy in which = Ray Daniels compares various manufacturers of filters. I thought his approach was fine, but there was a glaring error in his reporting. He did not report a taste comparison along with the clarity measurements. Filtration has the reputation of causing a degraded quality in the beer. Biggest problem I see with filters in comparing pad filters and sieve filters is that pad filters are often active chemically ( in the old days Asbestos was added) and indiscriminately remove protein as well as particles. Also some filters routinely use things like Diatomaceous Earth which can adsorb protein. = I believe this is the source of the idea that filtering = can affect the organo-leptic properties of a filtered = beverage negatively. Ray should have compared = both filtering ability and the taste to be sure you are not unselectively removing protein by adsorption = on the pad material. This sort of thing does not happen with the modern membrane filters. I use the Filter Company's 5 micron filter cartridge to remove yeast and it does an excellent job at filtering 5 gallons of yeasty, cloudy beer in about 3 or four minutes. I usually filter warm uncarbonated beer into a CO2 flushed Cornie ( see my description here a couple of weeks ago about filling a keg with water and then pushing it out with CO2). The beer is sparkling clear while warm. Chilling it will produce = a chill haze. = I have a 0.5 micron filter which I have yet to use, but bought it to filter the cold beers to remove the chill haze after at least 3 days chilling. Based on the report in Zymurgy this may take 15-20 minutes. A = Filter Company employee told me that even a 0.2 micron filter ( for really *sparkling* beer) will not have a bad effect on the organoleptic properties, but that 0.1 microns has been reported to do so. = I recommend that you get both the 5 micron (yeast removal) and the 0.2 or 0.5 micron (chill haze) membrane filter to produce haze free beer. Doing two filtrations will make the smaller filter last longer and filter faster than trying to do the job with just the smaller filter. Alternatively, use an inexpensive approximately 5 micron filter used for water filters ( check to make sure they have no clays or carbon black or whatever in them - go for the wound filters) in line with the smaller micron filters to do it all at once = - ---------------------------------------------- Joe Stone asks for opinions on a Hop Back. See my comments of last week. I use a small filter made from a "Choreboy" copper or SS metal turnings scrubber. Works great and costs about 39 cents, leaves the hops in the kettle so there is no limitation on the volume like you describe for the commercial hop back. Also I doubt this Hop Back will do a good job at removing hot break if the hops are allowed to move. I say spend that $84.61 on something else - like malt- and hop back from this offering. - ------------------------------------------------ Eugene Sonn asks how to measure out his hop extract in pounds when he doesn't have a scale. First idea is to make your own scale (balance). Use a flat board on a fulcrum ( a pencil taped on, for example) on which you can place bowls at either end. Put a bowl with 16 ounces ( 2 cups) of water on one end and a similar weight bowl on the other. Pour in warm hop extract into the bowl at the other end until the board balances. Measure the volume with a measuring cup. Also you can try placing water in a deep kettle or waste basket deeper than the can of extract. Mark the level with a piece or tape or marker. = Put the can of extract ( unopened, of course) in the water and remove the water back down to the mark. The volume of the water you removed is the volume of the 15Kg can. In the first case you have the volume of one pound =2E In the second you have the volume per 15 kilos which you can convert to pounds by multiplying = 15 X 2.2 =3D 33 lbs and dividing by the volume of water to get the density in pounds per volume. = - ---------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:27:07 -0500 From: Graham Barron <gbarron at cq.com> Subject: Blue Moon: Coors responds In what I consider a very much appreciated gesture and a commentary on the relevance of our discussions on this digest, Coors Brewing Company has responded directly to me regarding the recent thread on Blue Moon and surrounding issues. Per their request, I have posted the email I received from Keith Villa, the brewer of the Blue Moon line of beers. Commentary, etc., is welcome. >>>> <excerpt>To: Graham Barron (gbarron at cq.com) As the brewmaster who creates all of the Blue Moon brews, I thought it was appropriate to respond to your comments recently posted in the Homebrewer's Digest archives. First, some of my credentials. I am a homebrewer (since 1983), a professional brewer (since 1986), and a certified beer judge with the BJCP. I judge at numerous homebrew competitions (including the national AHA competitions), and at the Great American Beer Festival and our state fair microbrew competition. I also lived in Belgium for almost 4 years while earning my Ph.D. degree in brewing biochemistry from the University of Brussels (Flemish campus). During my studies, I had the opportunity to visit and tour in-depth many Belgian breweries including large, small, artisanal, lambic, Trappist, etc. I also had the opportunity to visit breweries in England and Germany to round out my brewing education. Regarding beer quality and medals, I ensure that Blue Moon ales are made from only the highest quality 2-row malt, hops and spices. The only adjunct we use is the real honey in Honey Blonde Ale. In addition, Blue Moon ales are all kosher. We do not advertise it, but they pass the strict standards of the Orthodox Union. Blue Moon products have won medals from the Colorado State fair, the Great American Beer Festival and the World Beer Championship. Each of these competitions employs the judging talent of professional brewers and beer writers. These competitions are judged blindly and I believe this is the fairest way to award medals, no matter who wins. As you know, Blue Moon is an operating unit of Coors, and we do not hide this. What this means is that only the highest quality standards are used to make Blue Moon products. I create and oversee the brews to make sure only the best ingredients are used. The brewers who have won the most medals, overall, at the Great American Beer Festival include Coors, Alaskan Brewing, Anheuser-Busch and Boston Beer. As you can see, both big and small brewers can make award-winning products. And, please do not confuse beer styles. What I mean is, do not put down one style of beer as watery, while another might be praised for being big and aromatic. For example, Original Coors is an American lager (read the AHA or GABF guidelines), and has a GABF gold medal to prove that it is an excellent example of the style. It certainly is not a Bohemian or German pilsner. Also, please remember that some styles have fairly wide guidelines. For example, many Americans will say that Hoegaarden is the best example of a wit. However, if you went to Belgium and asked for the best wit, you would get many different replies, ranging from examples with strong coriander aroma to those with a bland nose. Finally, as you claim to have a cynical view of large brewers, you might be surprised to find out who really owns Hoegaarden and Celis breweries. As a fellow homebrewer, I urge you to paste this letter in the Homebrewers Digest along with any additional comments. Sincerely, Keith Villa, Ph.D. Master Brewer, Blue Moon Brewing Company </excerpt><<<<<<<< I replied to Keith privately, but in summary I wrote: 1) I never intended to question the quality of ingredients of the Blue Moon products (although I may have speculated that the beers were not entirely malt, but I can't remember now); 2) that I believe in the integrity of most commercialized brewing competitions, but do question the methods of judgement used at the "World Beer Championships"; 3) recognized that large brewers can brew "award winning" beers, but that the styles that they dominate (American lager, "premium" lager, etc.) are, at least to craft beer lovers and most people who actually care about these competitions, inconsequential; 4) reiterated that while Blue Moon white may be in style, I am not obsessed with style nor am I very concerned with style definitions; 5) that being said, I was trying to state in my original post that there are several far better examples of Belgian white beer available in the US (both domestically produced and not) that homebrewers should try to emulate when reproducing white beer; 6) I never intended to put down anyone's beer taste or to try and put my palate above anyone elses; and 7) wrote that I was aware of the large brewer interests that control, at least in part, the Celis and Hoegaarden breweries. Anyway, I would like to thank Keith again for writing and getting involved here. Graham L. Barron "People, there's more to life than white bread!" --David Rosengarten "I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." --Frank Sinatra Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:04:28 -0700 From: Matt Gadow <mgadow at ix.netcom.com> Subject: 100 IBU IPA's I recently noticed a great looking recipe on Glenn Tinseth's Hop's page (www.realbeer.com/hops) for Dave Brockington's Sister Star of the Sun IPA! This beer looked like a challenge I couldn't back away from- 3 oz. of Chinook Hops for bittering, plus 4 more oz. EKG / Fuggle for flavor & aroma! This generates about 125 IBU by Tinseth's method of calculation, although the IPA style guidelines are 40-60, I believe, unless there is an adjustment factor for the proximity to the hop growing region that I'm not factoring in... :-) Has anyone tried this recipe? - Dave has listed numerous BOS, and gold medals, so it obviously has the credentials. I brewed a this recipe of this last weekend, and it has fermented out nicely from 1.066 down to 1.018 (although it was murder to CF chill - the boil hops were removed at the end of the boil, but the 4 oz of finish hops choked the old trusty choreboy!) Dave suggested also dryhopping (.25oz fuggle) in the keg, so that's now done, too! Can't you all just taste the hops from your terminal? Comments? Anyone want to start a "worship of the IPA style" thread? Your witty comebacks? Matt Gadow mgadow at ix.netcom.com - ------------------------------- If you're not livin on the edge You're takin up too much space... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:29:38 -0700 From: BBrowne at golder.com (Barry Browne) Subject: Fermentors for 10+ gallon batches Beer me dudes I am seeking advice on fermentors for 10+ gallon batches. Currently I am retooling my homebrewery to increase my brewlength from 6 to 10+ gallons and my last quest is to determine how to ferment this amount of beer in a single vessel. There are several obvious choices, the big glass demijohn, the 1/2 barrel SS keg, and 15 gal food grade HDPE barrels (like those used to ship malt extract) . I think the risks associated with a large beer-filled glass vessel outweigh the benefits of single vessel fermentation and therefore I eliminate a glass demijohn from consideration. The Sankey seems to be a decent option (durability etc.). I'd appreciate hearing from folks about their experiences, good or bad, with these vessels (or any others) as fermentors. Do you use them as open fermentors (primary) by cutting off the lid? Do you clean up with NaOH? Any other recommended vessels?? Thanks. Barry Browne Atlanta, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:21:19 -0400 From: Katy or Delano DuGarm <dugarm at mnsinc.com> Subject: Malta as a Yeast Starter There's been some discussion recently of malta, the unfermented wort that is popular as a drink or tonic in some Latino communities. Looking back at the HBD archives, I found conflicting information concerning malta's suitability as a yeast starter. At least one writer indicated that yeast did quite well in malta, while others suggested that yeast grew poorly if at all in malta. I decided to try it myself. My conclusion: malta has preservatives in it that inhibit yeast growth, making it useless as a yeast starter. My corner grocery sells three kinds of malta: Malta Goya, Malta India and Malta Goya Lite. All three are produced by The Lion, a brewery in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. I bought a six pack of Malta Goya, as it was twenty cents cheaper than Malta India. The label indicates that Malta Goya is "a cereal beverage brewed from quality malt, hops, selected grains and corn syrup." Sounds like my yeast starter wort. I innoculated two 35-ml tubes of sterile wort with Yeast Culture Kit Company American Ale yeast, and let them ferment. I then pitched the two tubes into identical sanitized 1-liter Erlenmeyer flasks. One had two bottles (24 fl. oz.) of malta, the other had approximately the same amount of canned wort (pressure canned at 15 lbs. for 35 minutes). I shook both flasks in an attempt to aerate the two worts, and to try to degas the malta, which is carbonated. In the course of several days the canned wort showed normal yeast growth, with a kreusen. The malta stayed inactive, though some fermentation did occur (the specific gravity declined by 8 points). I dumped the malta and used the canned-wort starter in an American ale. I next tried fermenting two bottles of malta in another 1-liter Erlenmeyer flask, using a 5 gram packet of champagne yeast. This was much more successful: yeast activity started quickly and the beer dropped 45 points. There was a significant yeast cake at the bottom of the Erlenmeyer flask. My guess is that malta contains potassium sorbate or some other preservative to inhibit yeast development. This makes sense, as otherwise bottles of malta would explode on shelves with an alarming regularity. The dosage is enough to handle a small innoculation of yeast (hence the difficulties the American Ale yeast had), but not enough to handle a large amount of yeast, like the package of champagne yeast. In practice, this means that if you really want to, you can ferment malta, but it's a poor choice for a yeast culturing medium. This is a shame, as I'd much rather buy my starter wort at the corner grocery store rather than canning it myself. I called The Lion twice, but was unable to confirm their use of preservatives in malta. I can't think of any other way of explaining my experience, though. Delano DuGarm Delano DuGarm Arlington, Virginia dugarm at mnsinc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:33:56 -0700 From: "Michael R. Frank" <mfrank at ag.Arizona.EDU> Subject: Flying Brews I'm going to fly up to Denver for a few days to get away from the Tucson heat and monsoons. I'd like to take some of my recent brews to a few friends there. Is it better to pack bottles in checked baggage, or carryon? Is either allowed by the airlines? What is the collective experience on this? Thanks, Mike Frank Senita Gulch Brewing Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:53:35 -0400 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Killing Lactic bad guys I developed a lactic infection in one of my cornies. Actually, the infection was in a beer that was in the cornie. I'm pretty sure the cornie itself is in perfect health :-). To clean it, I rinsed it out and then splashed a solution of powdered beer line cleaner in it and ran the stuff through the picnic tap, etc., letting it sit awhile first. Then I re-rinsed, and filled the whole thing up with Iodophor solution for a few days (covered), ran that stuff through the picnic faucet and hose, disassembled the whole thing, including all faucet parts, tore apart the poppet valves, and soaked everything individually in Iodophor, rinsed, put a new batch in and a few weeks (maybe four?) later....INFECTED again. Does boiling water kill lactic bacteria? if so, will the hot water ruin my picnic faucet/hose/rubber gaskets? If boiling water won't do it, how do I clean this cornie? TIA. Randy Ricchi Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:23:26 -0500 From: "Mike Blakey" <blakey at fgi.net> Subject: RE: Budweiser's born-on bull Steve Jackson wrote: >there's no way in hell that a fermentation could be completed >in a day. And I would guess Bud's "exclusive beechwood aging" >takes a bit longer than a few hours as well. AB does not ferment, age, condition, filter, and package its beers all in one day. In fact, AB's process requires approximately 30 days to produce Budweiser. The born-on date symbolizes the day the beer was packaged. This is significant because the pasteurization process kills all living organisms in the beer. This is what makes commercial beer much different from homebrew, which can continue to improve while aging for months. As AB's "multi-million-dollar marketing budget" accurately portrays, however, "Fresh Beer is Better". Commercial beers will begin to deteriorate AFTER pasteurization and will worsen with age. I believe it is possible for a beer, packaged shortly after midnight, to be loaded on a truck and shipped from Columbus, Ohio to Indy by 6:00 AM. However, I, like yourself, am skeptical that the distributor would turn the beer over that quickly. My guess? I know that AB had some initial problems with their born-on dating system stamping the wrong dates. Reportedly, the margin of error was never more than plus-minus five days. If they continue to have these problems, then the beer in question may have actually been packaged sometime between July 5 - July 9. I find this much more believable. In either case, your friend was drinking a beer less than a week old, which is much better than the industry average. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:30:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Kit Lemmonds <klemmonds at aristotle.net> Subject: Experiments with Sorghum Molasses Hey guys and gals, I recently used 2 pounds of sorghum molasses in an Old Peculier-like ale that worked fairly well. I was on my fourth bottle one night when a crazy idea struck me - if they can make mead out of honey, why not an all-sorghum brew, or at least a 'majority sorghum' brew? Unfortunately, sorghum is a little expensive to experiment with, so I would like to gather a little info before I even try it. Papazian warns that molasses can lend and overpowering and unpalatable flavor in excess, but since sorghum is not technically molasses I wonder if the results would be different. If anyone out there has used sorghum in a significant amount (let's say 1/5 of your fermentables), would you please drop me a quick note on your results? Thanks Kit, who blames the UPS strike for all his brewing frustrations. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 20:02 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Old Ale Recipe Question I pulled out the "Wicked Old Ale" recipe from Cat's Meow. Looks pretty good but I have a question abou the mash schedule. It calls for a rest at 95F and 122F (30 minutes each) even though the malt is "British two row". Then it calls for 156-158F for sacharification to complete conversion and a mashout at 170F. I could go with this but then it calls for taking 1/4 of the mash and boiling it. What's the point here? Are we going for melanoidins without being concerned about main mash temp? Does this make sense? It almost seems the same as pressure cooking the first runnings for 30 minutes. And whatever happened to that experiment anyway, did it really produce a malty flavor? Charle (puzzeled) in N. Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:40:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mench5 at aol.com Subject: re:keg baggage when traveling to seattle a couple of months ago from the great beer wastelands of florida, i could not resist taking a few 3g kegs to bring back some of seattles finest. the concern shown at baggage check-in was that they not be pressurized. i left 5psi in the kegs so i could release the pressure in front of the clerk,showing that they were at 0psi. i also told them i was a beer salesman (yeah,right) and they were samples from the conference. from my understanding you can check them as baggage with no problem(don't forget the 70lb weight limit). also, had some freinds taking kegs to cleveland last month and they were using those antique pin lock kegs with no pressure valve. the wrong valve was depressed and everyone at checkin was treated to a beer shower. even though, they were allowed to check them as baggage. btw, 3g. each of pike stout, pike pale and leavenworth ipa fresh off the plane makes for a popular fellow where i live!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:55:44 +0500 From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net> Subject: jockey box / leaking CO2 tank Hello fellow brewers! Got a couple of quick questions: 1) I already have a spare beer fridge in the garage but I frequently use it to control fermentation temps as well... especially now that I'm doing open fermentation in a 15 gallons Sankey that cannot be easily carried out of the hot garage into the house. I was toying with buying a second fridge so I could dedicate one to fermenting and the other to serving, but I may also be interested in having a jockey box around for those occassional parties at distant locations. So I was wondering how practical it is to just serve my own beer out of one at home. Is it somehow harmful to the beer to serve it slowly over the course of a month or so through copper tubing? I imagine it might since the copper is easily dissolved from the low pH. What about SS tubing instead? 2) I moved my 25# CO2 tank the other day and thought if felt mighty light. I had just refilled it a few months ago and only used it once but thought I remembered it feeling much heavier. It has since just been sitting in the garage completely disconnected from all gas lines and the main valve completely shut. It was retested and certified just over a year ago, plus I assume they pressure tested it when they last filled it recently. Is it possible to have developed a very slow leak in the main tank fittings (remember, I have no lines hooked up at the moment)? Shouldn't they have caught such a leak when they last filled it a few months ago? Thanks- Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina "An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer, marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!" mailto:keith at ays.net http://www.ays.net - at your.service web design & hosting http://www.ays.net/brewmasters -Carolina BrewMasters club page http://www.ays.net/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery) http://www.ays.net/movingbrews -pumps and accessories for advanced homebrewers Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:31:22 -0700 From: smurman at best.com Subject: apple juice starters//recent topics With all the discussion of easy, safe starters I thought I'd mention a method a buddy of mine uses. He simply pops the top off a bottle of apple juice, pitches the yeast, fits a top and opens a brew. I'm not saying this is the best method, but it does work. // What is with all the people whining about the Eisbock or botulism threads? This is like me complaining that people post too much about RIMS or kegging because I'm not interested in them. Both of these subjects are directly related to homebrewing. If you're not personally interested, then page down to the next article. If you feel the digest has stagnated, then by all means start a new topic, but don't tell others what they should discuss. If you've really had it, then unsubscribe. I'm sure the HBD will gladly refund your subscription fee. Sorry, but I had to vent. SM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:49:57 From: al_ru at usa.net Subject: Carbonation in small bottles Lady G wrote in #2471: &gt; We found that the 22 oz bottles had a lot more fizz &gt; than the 12 ozers. Whether really it and the quality of carbonation (by priming sugar) depends on a size of bottles?! Whether someone can explain this effect (or to refute it)? I have 2 boxes of small bottles (on 300 grams) and I planned to use them in near future. Is it bad idea for the reason of problems with carbonation (by priming sugar) and better to me use bottles of a greater size? Thanks for help in advance! Al Petrukhin. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:28:28 From: Alessandro Calamida <alessandro.calamida at auto.fiat.it> Subject: Roasted barley. How?? Many recipes require roasted barley, but I couldn't find good instructions on how to make it. CP book says roast barley is obtained gradually heating the barley up to 200 C, but it doesn't detail the procedure. I tried putting some barley in my electric oven, raising the temperature to 200C and keeping this temp for about 1 hour. I got hard dark brown grains, but I don't know if it is true "roasted barley" that can be used in my beer. Does anybody have a detailed recipe for this thing? Incidentally, I made an experiment putting some barley in my microwave oven too. I got brown/red grains, much softer than those in the electric oven, and with a pop-corn like flavour. Why this difference? Is it something that can be used in brewing? What would I get if I roasted crystal malt instead? TIA A. Calamida Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:14:48 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: PBS Hopback $85 for a hopback?!? Yikes! I've made extremely good ones from a 1 quart Mason jar for about $10 or less. OK, mine will only hold one oz of leaf hops, but for $75 I think it's worth it. Check it out at http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/gadgets/a BTW, the page doesn't show it, but I'm now simply using lengths of 3/8" copper instead of the hose barb/plastic hose combination. Works like a charm for me! -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:11:29 +0100 From: fredriks at abel.math.umu.se (Fredrik Staahl) Subject: Re: Extraction Efficiencies In HBD #2482, Rob Kienle writes about the importance of maintaining temperature during sparging. I agree with everything he said. I used to have a quite low and unpredictable efficiency, but now when I try to maintain the temperature my extraction efficiency is a steady 88-92% (in the sparge that is, not including later losses in break material etc.). Some tips: 1. Make sure that mash-out temperature is 78C. 2. Underlet the false bottom with some boiling water before transferring the mash into the lauter tun. 3. A lot of heat is lost when recirculating the first wort. Therefore I heat it a little in the microwave before returning it to the lauter tun. 4. I keep the sparge water at 85C, and it could probably be even hotter without raising the temperature in the lauter tun too much if you let it cool a little towards the end of the sparge. /Fredrik Stahl, fredriks at abel.math.umu.se Return to table of contents
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