---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Yeast Culturing ("Ian Wilson")
  odor (Jeff Foley)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  headless all-wheat ("C&S Peterson")
  porter - entire butt (Mark Tumarkin)
  Living in Winnipeg (Ralph Link)
  9" False Bottom (kbjohns)
  home roasting crushed grain (smurman)
  Conversion Temperature ("Randy Davis")
  Comprehensive Brewpub Listings (Eric Wooten)
  Re: Entire Butt (Steve Jackson)
  Quick Beer / Punkin Beer (KennyEddy)
  Yeast from Paulaner Hefe-Weizen ("Paavola, Patrick C.")
  '97 California State Homebrew Competition (Tim McNerney)
  re: why this flavor... (Lou Heavner)
  Special B (Dana Edgell)
  Medicinal taste - potential culprits ("Ernst, Joseph G.")
  Nutrasweet in Brewing. (Fred Waltman)
  Mouse in the demijohn ("Ernst, Joseph G.")
  re: Entire Butt (PVanslyke)
  Entire Butt ("Mark S. Johnston")
  Water & Carboys (kevin martin)
  Homebrew Digest #2500 (September 05, 1997) (keith  christiann)
  Dry Yeast? ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  CBG: Update (Hords of Fun)" <v-ahord at microsoft.com>
  UK Homebrew Supplies ("Roy R. Rimmele")
  Fermentap ??'s ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  122F Surprise ("David R. Burley")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:17:32 -0700
From: "Ian Wilson" <ianw at sosinet.net>
Subject: Yeast Culturing

Lately, I have been reading about the pitching rates for brewing ales. 

I have been growing up yeast cultures from smack-packs / slants / etc. for
a year or so, now. My normal procedure:     
   Begin about a week before brewing. 
   Break the Smack-Pack bubble.
   Prepare about 300 ml of wort by adding three heaping tablespoons in an
ehrlenmeyer flask. 
   "Cap" with a foam   plug. Boil for 15 minutes.
   Cool to room temperature.
   "Pitch" smack-pack to flask.
   Prepare another batch of wort.
   Repeat process so that I pitch 3 to four times before pitching to brew.

I use "sterile" techniques, i.e. flame flask, stopper, fingers, cat, etc.

I have never pitched more than 200-300 ml of white yeast slurry from the
bottom of the flask. I would like to know how these guys manage to grow up
a quart of slurry! I've Rog Listad's book and just about everything I can
get my 
hands on about yeast propogation, but I just keep coming up with little
bits of yeast.

Has anyone any ideas as to better yeast propogation techniques?  I have
only ever had one batch of infected beer and I know exactly where that came
from and it wasn't my yeast (one of my sons now knows better than to shove
a stick into the fermenter to stir up bubbles).

Perhaps there are others who would like this kind of info, too.

Ian Wilson
ianw at sosinet.net



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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:57:49 -0700
From: hmbrewer at juno.com (Jeff Foley)
Subject: odor

I have a question for the collective. I just recently bottled a batch.
The problem that it has a strong smell to it. It sort of smells like
concentrated malt or something on those lines. What caused this and 
will it reduce with time?

Jeff Foley
Sierra Vista, AZ
Thunder Mountain Brewery (One can wish can't they).



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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 02:53:14 
From: "Derek Kite" <dkite at netidea.com>

Jim Daley
Subject: Wet freezer

Freezers have the evaporator (cold part) inside the walls. Actually,
what you  have, 42 deg with a temperature difference across the
cooling medium of very little, is a way of producing an environment
with close to 100% rh. 

Mould and mildew will grow.

A couple of things to do. Make sure the door seal is 100% sealing.
And never open the door. Drill a hole in the floor to drain the
water, trying to miss any refrigerant lines within. Eventually, it
will get better. Rather impractical though.

Try putting a small desktop type fan inside the freezer. The air
movement will help somewhat. Make sure you don't make the door seal
worse when you put the cord through. You need to drain the water
somehow, and I am serious about there being refrigerant lines all
over the place inside the walls and floor. 

If you just store the kegs in there, sealed, and clean the thing out
regularly, maybe you can make do with it.

Derek Kite
dkite at netidea.com
lurking refrig. mech.



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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 01:52:37 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

		The Jethro Gump Report
Back To Business...

Bad Frog Beer..
	A federal court judge has upheld NY states'  ban of Bad Frog, based on the
label's depiction of a frog flipping the bird. This on the heels of the Joe
Camel deal, the courts seem to be acting 'for the children,' by removing
the image from places where it can be seen by same. Appeals are in the
works.

Bud Suits....
	Two suits have been filed in California on behalf of craft-brewers against
A-B, stating that the '100 percent share of mind' campaign, instituted by
A-B, and pushed onto their distributors, has cost craft-brewers access to
distribution networks, and increased their costs of doing business. The 1st
suit, filed by St. Stan's and others, and  the 2nd, filed by El Toro,
attack their problem from different angles, but will undoubtedly have an
impact on how the fed's and states view the 3 tier system. 
	Jethro has predicted that a restraint of trade action was forthcoming
since the '100 percent' campaign went into effect.

Beer Across America Racketeer?....
	Louis Amoroco, who started the Beer Across America Club, traveled
voluntarily from Chicago to Utah to face the charges, basically involving
the shipment of beer to Utah, principally a tax issue, and found himself
charged with racketeering, tax evasion, unlawful transportation, and sale. 
	Along with another recent report regarding illicit transportation of wines
from wineries to the home states of wine afficiandos, whose states don't
allow, or don't provide a distribution network, that allows their favored
grape juice to be sold in their state, isn't it about time that the state
governments put it together, and realized that criminalizing their citizens
desire to acquire their libations went out with the 1930's? It didn't work
then, and it won't work now.

Hop Crop Failing...
	Get ready for increases in the hop prices for the current crop, due to
begin harvest any day now. 
	Powdery mildew, long known on the Euro hop scene, but as yet not seen in
the America's, has hit the Washington State hop fields. Caught unaware, the
farmers and scientists had no legal chemistry to fight the attack, which
has hit the Yakima Valley, home to three-fourths of the domestic hop crop.
Estimates are that at least 10 percent of the Yakima crop will be destroyed.
	  Chemical methods of attack were not available until the middle of July,
as none of the producers expected the disease, and none of the hop doctors
had any plans for dealing with it. But fungicides useful in treatment are
now available, and will be used again next year, through provisional
licensing by the feds. Costs of application will increase the cost of
growing by 10 %, this compounded by the decreased production should mean we
all will pay more for what's left.
	Small growers will go bust. From 350 growers in the Yak valley, in the
1950's, there are now 100, soon to be less.
	Oregon and Idaho, the other major domestic hop producers, have not yet
seen the disease.

	(Source for the preceeding...Modern Brewery Age, subs at 85$ US, well
recommended reading. No affiliation, just a happy subscriber.)

Nuclear Beer?
	Has anybody got any info on the use of irradiation for the pasteurization
of beer? Seems like the ideal way to go for my money, except of course for
bottle conditioning.
	Has it been done before? (Not at home, of course.) But does anyone have
any info on this?  

People, Get Ready....
	Coming soon to a State near you.......It seems that the next area of
profit for the legal profession, in the form of the class action suit, may
be the beer industry. 
	The WSJ recently had a major piece on beer marketing, largely directed in
attack at A-B....talking about how all the warm and fuzzy images of frogs,
horses, the 'everyman's' beverage, along with the bimbo appeal, has made
beer a 'non-target' of legislative attacks, such as that currently being
seen by the tobacco industry.
	The next relevant article, published within days, focused on the beer
industries' lobby groups, and how they even got the Clydesdales in
Clinton's inaugural parade. Such a one-two punch, in the form of virtually
back to back articles of attack on the industry, can't be good for our
favored libation.
	Keep you eyes on the details, for while the cider makers are revelling in
the newly used line item veto, exercised for their benefit, the beer biz is
IMHO, about to face a new round of neo-prohibitionism.
	Interesting to note, while the cider makers are happy with their tax cut,
will it filter down into reduced prices for the consumer? 

Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Brewer At Large
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 97 10:39:02 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at classic.msn.com>
Subject: headless all-wheat

HBDers -

Thanks to DB for providing a little feedback on my "headless wonders" (a 100% 
wheat, Oct., and doppel).  I did not know that higher alcohol beers tend to 
suffer from head retention problems -- thanks Dave -- another HBD nugget to 
tuck in my brain.

As far as the all-wheat beer, I can assure you that this beer did not suffer 
from carbonation problems, and I used a healthy starter (about 1 Ga for a 12 
Gallon batch) of American Ale II (a vigorous fermenter), and packaged in both 
keg and bottle, with the keg filtered to 0.5 microns and forced, and with the 
bottles unfiltered/primed but fined with Polyclar.  Both bottles and keg 
tasted/behaved the same.  

FWIW the beer was quite good IMHO --- it won 1st in the American Ale category 
in the SE regional for the NHC '97, which is tough for an American Wheat to 
do.  But it didn't have the heading properties I expected.  I am planning a 
redo of this recipe this fall, and adding 1/2# of torrified wheat to the 
grist.  Also, the fact that rice hulls are used in the lauder procedure could 
have impacted the componds extracted from the mash, but I know of no reported 
problems with rice hulls (they were rinsed with hot water to remove dust and 
rice bits).

eagerly waiting to read Jim B's articles in BT on this issue,

Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md


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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:42:41 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com>
Subject: porter - entire butt

Michel Brown asks about the origin or meaning or the term Entire Butt. 

Earlier this year Rob Moline posted an article from Graham Wheeler that
really gave a terrific overview of Porter history and style. I don't have
the HBD #, but search the HBD archives for Entire Butt or Graham Wheeler
and you should be able to find it. I believe I still have this in a file. I
will look for it and forward it to you if I can. 

Briefly, Porter was originally blended from several brewings or threads, a
fresher young beer (mild) and an older aged (stale or sour) beer. It was
mixed by the publican to the drinkers taste. This was an expensive and
complicated process due to the aging and storing of the beer. A brewer
named Harwood is believed to have developed a type of beer that closely
approximated this blending in one brewing, this was called Entire. Butt
refers to the cask used. 

Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle

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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:13:54 -0500
From: Ralph Link <rlink at minet.gov.mb.ca>
Subject: Living in Winnipeg

Are there any full grain brewers in Winnipeg? I anyone knows of some one
advise me via e-mail.
Thanks 
Ralph Link
Ralph Link
"Some people dream of success------while others wake up and work at it.


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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:31:03 -0400
From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net
Subject: 9" False Bottom

<italic>A much better false bottom and one that I use is a simple 9"
circle of flat brewers perf. plate.  It sits right on the bottom and held
in place by Just last week I crammed 45 lbs. of grain on top of the
plate

w/o any problems.


</italic>Yes a 9" will prevent the probllem of the flase bottom
colapsing. But, it will also give a lower extraction rate than a full
false bottom unless, the wort is runoff proportianetly slower. (see BT
article Summer 95).


A better design is an adequately heavy, full size SS plate that is
properly suppported



Bob

Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/pbscat.html

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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 07:00:20 -0700
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: home roasting crushed grain


Home roasting/toasting of grains is something I've wanted to try
for awhile, BUT I don't have a grain mill and no plans to buy one
in the near future.  What is the feasibility of home roasting
already crushed grains?  I would think that simple toasting of
pale ale malt wouldn't be affected much, but possibly the 
stewing/carmelizing method wouldn't work as well.  Comments?

SM

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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:30:51 -0600
From: "Randy Davis" <davisrm at cadvision.com>
Subject: Conversion Temperature

Charles Burns asks about the Brewing Techniques reference to a 143F
conversion temperature for Pilsener Urquell. Conversion will certainly take
place at this temperature and in fact, the Brewers Publications Classic
Beer Styles series Stout edition, states that Beamish uses an infusion mash
of 75 minutes at this temp. for Beamish Stout. In my attempts to brew a
stout as close as possible to draught Beamish, I have adopted this
practice. The result is, of course, highly fermentable resulting in a high
degree of attenuation, and the very light body appropriate for a classic
draught stout.

The use of a triple decoction mash schedule by PU would explain the
maltiness and mouthfeel of the finished beer even if it is converted at a
low temperature.  I don't know if this is in fact the conversion temp. in
use at PU, but I see no reason why it would not produce the desired
results, as long as a decoction mash is employed. If not using decoction,
it would make sense to increase the conversion temperature into the 150's
F.

Randy Davis


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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:01:35 -0500
From: wooten at uthscsa.edu (Eric Wooten)
Subject: Comprehensive Brewpub Listings

The "I'm going to X, where's a good pub" thread seems to be picking up
steam again, so I thought I'd remind the collective that I run a webisite
with comprehensive brewpub, fine bar, and microbrewery listings for all 50
states and Canada, as well as a few international listings.  The URL is:
http://pekkel.uthscsa.edu/beer.html
 Reviews are often included, and I recently revised the whole listing, so
it should be current and accurate (as always, email if otherwise...)
The page has also been banned (by Cyberpatrol) for your protection, so it
must be good.
Eric.

- -----------------------------------
Eric Wooten
wooten at uthscsa.edu
http://pekkel.uthscsa.edu/beer.html
- -----------------------------------



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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:04:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Entire Butt

Michael J. Brown asks about the origin of "entire butt" as a term for
porter:

>>>>>>>As a Porter affecianado, I brew one or two a month, and have
read =
repeatedly that several author's refer to Porter as "Entire Butt"
beer. =
Since we have been going over linguistics of late, I'm curious of what
=
gives with this moniker. My latest batch of Brown Porter I've
christened =
"Firkin Butt Porter" after my favorite beer engine (may Wat Dabney
smile =
upon us all), so if anyone has a clue, please email me, or post to the
=
HBD anything you know about "Entire Butt" beer. Hope this post doesn't
=
come *too* anally ;^)<<<<<<<

One of the many definitions for "butt" is a wine or beer cask. As most
of us are aware, beer used to be served almost exclusively from casks
- -- especially during the time of porter's development during the 18th
and 19th centuries. Early versions of porter often consisted of a
mixture of the pub's entire lineup of beers -- porter brewing was
actually an effort to replicate this mixture in the brewhouse instead
of in the pub.
So "entire butt" would refer to a beer that held a little something
from every open cask in the pub, giving us this now-archaic synonym
for porter.

 -Steve




_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com


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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:24:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Quick Beer / Punkin Beer

KROONEY wants to know if he can make a beer in 12 days:

"Is there any way I can brew a batch of homebrew when I return in time to
serve at the party or would I be wasting my time?"

It's quite do-able.  Almost any ale recipe should work fine.  Pitch well, my
son, to get a fast start and vigorous fermentation.  Can you get a sanitized
baby-food jar full of yeast slurry from a local brewpub?  If brewing with
extract, add some yeast nutrient to the wort.  Use Irish Moss in the boil to
maximize wort clarity.  Clarity will be easier to achieve too if you rack to
a secondary vessel after the fermentation is visibly overwith (by seven days
in any case).  If you have control of fermentation temperature, ferment on
the high side of the yeast's range to speed fermentation a bit (balancing
this against likely production of extra esters and higher alcohols; as long
as you're in the specified temperature range you oughta be OK).  Avoid
recipes with lots of roasted grain as *sometimes* these are harsh when young.
 Use a fast-clearing yeast like Wyeast ESB.  Avoid using sugars (especially
molasses or brown sugar) or overhopping, which often require mellowing.

*****

The annual Great Pumpkin Thread has risen from the Punkin Patch, Charlie
Brown, and with it the question about "when should I add the pumpkin?"

Whether you gut a fresh pumpkin, or use canned pumpkin, the stuff is mostly
starch and MUST BE MASHED.  If you're an extract-only brewer this can be
troublesome and is not recommended as a first foray into mashing.  Pumpkin
mashes are messy.  Mash with at least an equal weight of six-row (the extra
fraction of husk will aid in the sparge).  A "protein rest" is useful.  122F
or 135F? (oh no)  Perhaps our resident chemistry experts can expand on this
(remember -- it's pumpkin, not malted barley...).

It's said that "baking pumpkins" taste better than "jack-o-lantern" pumpkins,
though I've also heard otherwise.  In my pumkin ale, I quartered two baking
pumpkins and roasted at 350F for about an hour, till the meat just starts to
brown.  Scraped off all the meat, removed the seeds, and froze in a ziploc
until brewday.

As for enhancing pumpkin flavor, keep in mind that the spices you use will go
a long way to defining and enhacing pumpkin flavor.  If you split an unspiced
pumpkin wort, and spiced the two differently, you'd probably detect a
noticible difference in the "pumpkin flavor".  Good spices to use are
cinammon, nutmeg, ginger, and allspice.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: 05 Sep 1997 11:30:41 -0500
From: "Paavola, Patrick C." <Paavola.Patrick at mayo.edu>
Subject: Yeast from Paulaner Hefe-Weizen


Fellow Brewers,
I am interested in brewing a hefe-wiezen very similar to Paulaner Hefe-We
izen Dunkel.  It is an excellent brew, very malty!  It is also bottle condition
ed.  So my question is this, How does one go about making a starter using yeast
 from a commercially bottled beer?  Or is the yeast sediment a bottling strain
and therefore different than Paulaners fermenting yeast?  My experince with yea
st has been limited to dry (in the very beginning), but mostly Wyeast with 1/2
gallon starter.  Any help would be appreciated.
- --insert your catchy brewing quote here--
Rick Paavola  (Paavola.Patrick at mayo.edu)


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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:20:48 -0700
From: Tim McNerney <tim at vividata.com>
Subject: '97 California State Homebrew Competition

'97 California State Homebrew Competition

November 15th, 1997

for full details visit:

http://members.aol.com/russwig/WigSociety/StateComp.html

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:53:04 -0500
From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: re: why this flavor...

     >>>>>From: "Gerardo Godoy" <panasurf at panama.phoenix.net>
     
      I have been brewing only for 3 months and all my beers get this
     "very light" medicin flavor...it is not THAT bad and if I really cool
     the bottles it is hardly noticed.....is my beer getting infected all 
     the
     time??
     I clean everything like a hospital before I start and I am using 
     "BOTTLED"
     water so I won't get any chlorine........Can anyone suggest something,
     I am beginning to get frustrated and very angry.
     <<<<<
     
     Gerardo,
     
     I helped introduce a friend to homebrewing last year and he had 
     exactly the same problem.  His first couple of batches were pretty 
     good.  Then they started smelling like band-aids.  It got worse each 
     batch.  I tried to convince him he had contaminated equipment.  His 
     supplier suggested he was using too much chlorine bleach.  It didn't 
     go away until he replaced his siphon hoses.  Doesn't take much to 
     contaminate your beer.  Whenever and wherever you use tubing, nozzles, 
     spigots, etc, it is really hard to tell if they are clean inside.  I 
     soak everything religiously in B-Brite to clean, before and after use. 
     I avoid scouring anything plastic, even with something soft like those 
     green scouring sponges except for the yellow sponge part.  If I am 
     feeling really anal or during the warm season (9 months here in 
     central Texas) I use bleach after the B-brite as insurance.  If I was 
     you, I would re-examine your equipment and sanitation procedures.  And 
     if you can't insure something is sanitized that will come in contact 
     with cooled wort, then maybe you should consider it a one time 
     disposable item.  I hope that helps.  If there is anything worse than 
     smelling an infected beer, it has to be telling a newbie brewer and 
     good friend that his latest beer stinks... worse than the last.
     
     Another thought.... Do you take a sample of your wort to determine OG? 
     If so, don't put the sample back into your fermenter.  Also, you might 
     try tasting it to see if you detect any off flavor or smell anytime 
     you take a sample.  Maybe you can pinpoint when/where the infection is 
     occurring.
     
     Regards,
     
     Lou
     <lheavner at frmail.frco.com>

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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:28:10 -0500
From: Dana Edgell <edgell at quantum-net.com>
Subject: Special B


Dear HBD,

I am planning to brew a beer using only pale malt and Special B to get a
good idea of the effects of Special B in a beer. Any guidelines on how much
is too little to taste and how much is too overpowering?

Plus, If Special B is made by only one maltster (DW-C) why is the color
contribution from it subject to such a wide range of variance/unknown? Is
there really a huge batch to batch variance that needs to be somehow
accounted for every time it is used?

Brewmasters recipe Guide -> 300-500EBC/110-225L
Papazian's Companion     -> 500EBC/221SRM
Zymurgy Special 95       -> 75.0-250.0L (220.0)
BT George Fix Article    -> 221L
BT's 97 Market Guide     -> 264-343EBC/100-130L

I'm inclined to believe the new Brewing Techniques Market Guide but why are
all of the other references so much higher?

Thanks,
Dana
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
edgell at quantum-net.com
http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale


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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:04:01 -0500
From: "Ernst, Joseph G." <ernstjg at Maritz.com>
Subject: Medicinal taste - potential culprits

Gerardo,

I am not a very experienced homebrewer (yet), but I had a similar
problem with my first 4 brews - which were English Bitters or IPA's.  It
was the worst in batch 4, a very heavy IPA that I added honey to.  I
read in Papazian's "Homebrew Companion" that this might be caused by
either steeping the grain in the wort at too high a temperature or by
cheap (not name brand) yeast.  I had made both of these errors in batch
4, as I left the grains in until boiling commenced, and got caught
without a decent yeast and pitched what I had.  In my latest batch
(Amy's Awesome Lager) I pulled the grains out at 160 F, and used a
liquid Wyeast, and this took care of the problem for me.  I still have a
_hint_ of that medicinal effect, but I believe that is my throat
reacting to the high alcohol content of the beer (8.7%) - you see, even
though the kit contained 9 pounds of malt extract, I still thought it
prudent to add 2.5 pounds of honey!

Hope this helps!

Joe Ernst

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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Subject: Nutrasweet in Brewing.


Lou Heavner asks about using Nutrasweet:

If you read the ingredients for Nutrasweet you'll see that it contain 
dextrose, so it is somewhat fermentable. I made the mistake of trying to 
make a diet root beer with Nutrasweet. I put it in a party pig (luckly!) 
with just enough sugar to carbonate. Talk about a mess. It was like a 
fire hose stream of root beer every time you tapped it.

Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co.
fred at brewsupply.com   *or*   waltman at netcom.com
http://www.brewsupply.com



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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:11:30 -0500
From: "Ernst, Joseph G." <ernstjg at Maritz.com>
Subject: Mouse in the demijohn

>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:40:29 -0400
>From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com>
>Subject: Dead mouse in Demijohn -- still OK?


>Hi folks,

>A friend gave me a 55litre demijohn that had a couple of dead
>mice in it.  I've had the thing soaking in some pretty strong
>bleach solution for the last 5 days, and am wondering if I 
>should use this for beer or not.

>A couple of the mice were only skeletons -- one was freshly
>dead.


Alan,

Ummm,  I just _have_ to clarify something here...Before you added the
bleach solution, you DID take the mice out... didn't you?  ;-)

If it can take the heat, and if it will fit in the oven, I would
definitely put it in there at 350F for an hour, just to kill whatever
the bleach missed.  My last bit of advice, and the only bit I am
qualified to post: Don't tell the folks you share your brew with about
the origins of the demijohn!


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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:45:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: PVanslyke at aol.com
Subject: re: Entire Butt

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Dr. Michel J. Brown said:

>As a Porter affecianado, I brew one or two a month, and have read =
repeatedly that several author's refer to Porter as "Entire Butt" beer. =
Since we have been going over linguistics of late, I'm curious of what =
gives with this moniker. 
>snip

Porter was at one time blended at the bar to the customer's taste from an
'old' ale (an ale aged for up to a year and thus more expensive because of
the storage time) and a young ale. At some point a brew was produced that
encompased the traits of the previously blended beers. This beer, sold as
'Entire' or 'Entire Butt' was less expensive to produce.

Paul F. VanSlyke >> brewing and relaxing in Deposit, NY
Farnham Springs Brewery

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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:30:09 -0400
From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net>
Subject: Entire Butt

Michael Brown wrote:

>>As a Porter affecianado, I brew one or two a month, and have read =
repeatedly that several author's refer to Porter as "Entire Butt" beer. =
Since we have been going over linguistics of late, I'm curious of what =
gives with this moniker. <<


	In days of yore, when the style was first introduced, it was as a result
of tax rates on heating fuel. Malts kilned over coal fires were paler, but
coal was taxed at a high rate. Malts brought into London from the country
side were kilned over wood fires, with their hotter flame, so the malts
were darker--and cheaper since the wood was free to the farmers who owned
the land. As a result the darker, roasted malt beers were less expensive
than the pale city ales to the inn keepers. In a process not-unlike
watering down the liquor, the inn-keepers would try to both please their
patrons desire for the paler beers, and still cut their costs, by taking a
draught from several casks. This mixing of the paler ales and darker
stouts became known as the "entire butt". Once it became accepted, and
even popular, the mixing of malts began happening at the brewery,
resulting in the "modern" definition of porter.
	Yards Brewing Company in the Philadelphia area sells an "Entire". It's a
mix of their Imperial Stout and ESB. Nirvana in a glass.
- -- 
"If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a
conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind."  - Winston
Churchill


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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 20:46:55 -0700
From: kevin martin <kmartin at creston.heartland.net>
Subject: Water & Carboys

I am new to homebrewing and the Homebrew Digest.  I just made my first
homebrew this week, and dumped it down the drain tonignt.  It was a Nut
Brown Ale kit.  It looked really good, but I had someone helping me
brew, because it was getting late and I had to go to work the next
morning.  I asked them to mix the sanitizing solution and help me
sanitize my equipment.  I didn't realize until later that they had used
the wrong stuff.....used corn sugar instead of sanitizer.  WOW, talk
about giving all of those nasty little beasties a boost.  Oh well, I'm
going to try again with a honey wheat tomorrow.  

The kit that I used told me to sanitize the carboy, then rinse with cold
water, and later to add 3 gallons of cold water to the carboy.  It said
nothing about sanitizing the water.  I thought about it for a minute,
and boiled the needed water, cooled it with an ice bath, and used it. 
Right now, I plan to do the same tomorrow with the honey wheat.  Is this
the right thing to do?  I know boiling the water will drive the air out
of the water, requiring extra airation of the wort when putting it in
the carboy, but wouldn't not boiling the water add lots of germs?  Any
thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, the first batch left a nasty mess in the carboy.  I imagine that
some of you who have been brewing for a long time have had nasty messes
in the carboy.  Any tips on cleaning nasty messes from carboys?

Thanks in advance,
Kevin Martin
kmartin at creston.heartland.net

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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith christiann <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject:  Homebrew Digest #2500 (September 05, 1997)

Hi all,

I just moved to a house with a garage and I am very happy!  I am in need
of hooking up my natural gas stove and I would like to rig up a flexable
gas line.  I put a T on my gas line for the line but I am not sure if it
is safe to run a gas flexable gas line like you see on torches...  My dad
is a welder and wants to do it but I am not too sure it will work.  There
is a shut off valve at the T which makes me feel better but still ah not
sure.  It would be nice to avoid installing the black pipe and be fixed to
one location.  With the flexable gas line I can move it around the
garage...  Or even in the back yard.  All I need is about 25 feet!

Thanks

Keith
No longer the Balcani Brewer...
I got a garage!


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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:16:43 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Dry Yeast?

Sorry for the Bandwidth, but I was wondering if anybody out there could
direct me to a source of quality dry brewing yeast.

Would try the archives, but the web browser's on the mend.

To reduce bandwidth waste, please email me at the above address.

Jeff



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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:52:37 -0700
From: "Alan Hord (Hords of Fun)" <v-ahord at microsoft.com>
Subject: CBG: Update

Are you the sort of type that searches for brewmania but can't quite
find what you're looking for?  Not a big web surfer person?  Hmmm
<toe-tapping>...

New on the scene is an update to the old and static web sites of
beertown.  Introducing a not-so-new idea, but applied to our local
social an update to the unquavering appeal for more information about
BREWING.

The small, but dutiful Cascade Brewers Guild (monks that say "~Urp!")
are proud to announce a tiny but significant update to their obscure
window to the web world with their clever use of server technology.

*** Announcing ***
_Hot Links_ and _Find Links_ features within the Cascade Brewers Guild
Website at: Http://www.NWMarket.Com./CBG/

With over 150 active website links, our database rivals any other within
the known (heheh) brewing community.  It may not be the largest most
stupendous ever, but it belongs to us - AND we can add to it!  The
Cascade Brewers Guild will never spam out; we just want to find what
we're looking for in one ol' spot.  With your help - we can do that  :o)

We are not prejudice; if your link is active, then this is the place to
register it.  Categories include, but not limited to:
Beer Of the Month clubs, Brew on Premises, Brew Pubs, Brewing Clubs,
Brewing Fabrication, Brewing Supplies, Commercial Brewers, Distributors,
Listservers, Magazines, Personal Pages, Pubs and Taverns, and more!
We're International!

We also offer some new features (coming very soon), such as a Recipe
Vault, and Beer Quote of the Day. (Ahem...and we still have some other
black magic <knuckles cracking> that we've yet to break out) coming
online soon.

We're just a bunch of quaffing beer junkies, and hopefully you'll like
our obscure and honest corner of the world, and use us as a resource for
your specific beer travels.  It's all free - as life should be.  If you
have a site, please add us to you active links :o)

We're Not-for-profit!
Sincerely, Alan
President, Cascade Brewers Guild
Http://www.NWMarket.Com./CBG/

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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 97 02:55:03 -0400
From: "Roy R. Rimmele" <flossbos at mindport.net>
Subject: UK Homebrew Supplies

Thought I ask for help here.....I'm going to the UK in about 6 weeks. 
Does anybody know the location of homebrew shops throughout England & 
Scotland. I've tried surfing the new and one of the newsgroups with 
minimal success. I'm very interested to see how they sell their supplies 
(and what they sell. I'm always looking for new books, gadgets, and 
information.....Thanks in advance....:{)...Roy

>                                 _\|/_
>                                 { at   at }
>                 =============ooO=(_)=Ooo===============
>                            Roy R. Rimmele
>                          255 Route 12 Suite 5
>                        Groton, Connecticut 06340
>                          Voice:(860) 449-8909
>                         flossbos at mindport.net
>                           flossboss at aol.com

                     'So much beer.....so little time!
>


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Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 11:41:46 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at reefnet.com>
Subject: Fermentap ??'s

Fellow BrewMeisters,

Just purchased a Fermentap device and was wondering if the collective
has any opinions on a few things regarding it usage. I plan on using it
with mainly lager brews in a refrigerator.

According to the instruction sheet that came with it, it recommends
racking from primary to secondary (of course, requiring the purchase of
a second Fermentap) as one would normally do without this device. My
understanding of the purpose of this is naturally to get the fermenting
beer off the trub and autolyzed yeast cells as you would normally do
anyway. However, I thought that simply straining the trub and crud out
of the primary fermenter by using the Fermentap, would in essence be the
same as racking to a secondary vessel. Additionally, using this method
would also reduce the exposure to oxygen and airborne contaminants. Am I
correct in my thinking or did I leave out an important issue? 

The concept of this device is a good one. Does anyone use this method or
have any suggestions or experience I should otherwise consider?

Thanks,

Marc


- --------------------------------------------------
Capt. Marc D. Battreall
batman at reefnet.com

             \\|// 
             (o o)
=========oOO==(_)==OOo===========

Got any good homebrews??

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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:46:43 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: 122F Surprise

Brewsters:

Jim Busch's note to me reminded me I still hadn't gotten my copy of
May-August BT after re-upping in May, so I bought the last copy at the HB=

store and got around to reading it last night.

Jim's article on Step mash techniques was very good.  Imagine my surprise=

when I read:

"Often a brewer is better served to avoid *long* rests at 122F unless
necessary for undermodified malt, as might be used for lagers or for
adjuncts and instead spend more time in the range of the proteases betwee=
n
131F and 137F."

Couldn't have said it better myself - er I did, didn't I? I read this as
Jim is (at least  in some cases) recommending short holds at 122F, which =
I
also recommend.

Jim points out that more than just chopping up middle molecular weight
proteins into LMW proteins (peptides) and amino acids is happening in the=

122F region. ( As I have also pointed out - but perhaps not so clearly) =

Reading his tables and the text it demonstrates that the beta-glucans (
haze forming gums) will be removed at 122F (although not the optimum
temperature)  and these 1-4 beta glucanases (70% of the glucans are 1,4)
will be denatured at 131F - below the 135F hold. Table I and Table II
appear to have an apparent discrepancy on the temperature tolerance, but
closer reading shows that 1,4 glucancase still works at 122F and is
denatured at 131F.

He points out that beta glucanases make up about 75% of the matrix which
holds the starch ( and gives structure and hardness of the barley kernel)=
 .
 I interpret this to mean therefore, in highly modified malts
 ( where the glucanases have been active longer at the maltster)  the gra=
in
will be soft and mealy.  In more poorly modified malts the grains will be=

harder. The bite test is an old method for assessing a malt's modificatio=
n.


Perhaps this whole discussion centers around a failure to properly define=

the malts involved.  For pale ALE malts this 122F hold is apparently not
necessary (although Dr. Hook and others including me would suggest a shor=
t
hold) and could lead to a lower heading capability because these malts
start out as being low in proteins ( by barley strain selection) and low =
in
enzymes (especially the proteinases and beta Amylase) because it is kilne=
d
at a higher temperature.  It may be that because in Britain "Pale malt" i=
s
really "Pale ALE malt" and in the US and Germany Pale Malt is less highly=

modified and this failure to distinguish these difference by some people
may be the source of this controversy.  As far as I know, Lager malt is
still poorly modified (hardest and lightest in color), Pils is in-between=

in modification and pale is (perhaps - depending on where you are) the mo=
st
highly modified ( but still not as high as most pale ALE malts).  Take a
look at the color Lovibond reading on the malt specs to get an idea of th=
e
kilning temperature, and bite the malt grain to get an idea of the degree=

of modification.

It may be the case that modern brewers ( as Jim points out)  are selectin=
g
more highly modified malts for their grist and avoiding the 122F rest as =
a
result. Jim Busch points out that this is the current trend among some
German brewers and Professors.  But that does not change the fact that a
malt which has a 50% to 75% modification ( lager, pils and some pale malt=
s)
needs these low temperature holds to soften the barley grain, reduce the
gums to get clearer beer and solubilize the enzymes for the
saccharification step. =


After all this discussion, my conclusion remains the same:

If you want to reduce the haze, increase the efficiency of your extractio=
n
and avoid stuck sparges, especially with pale (perhaps not so necessary
depending on the maltster)/pils (more likely)/lager ( for sure  at 50%
modification) malts and for sure adjuncts - esp barley, rye and raw wheat=
 -
use the 122F ( and maybe include temperatures around 100F for high levels=

of  gummy adjuncts)  for 20 minutes or so.  Longer holds (like a few hour=
s)
here will definitely have a negative effect on head and the overall quali=
ty
of the beer except in those malts where the proteinases have been destroy=
ed
by high temperature kilning.

This discussion started ( I think) when I objected to the overly simple
(and incorrect) assertion that one should *always* avoid holding at 122F.=
 =

I hope all-grainers will now recognize that holds in this region are
necessary for certain kinds of malt and that the hold time is inversely
proportional to the degree of modification and also depends on the grist
composition.

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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---