---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Wine Yeasts in Beer (Mike Allred)
  LABC Response ("Michael T. Bell")
  Product reveiw request (Jason Henning)
  Polish hops (sadownik)
  BT article on PU (ensmingr)
  RE: Exploding Carboys (Cory Wright)
  Mash water / Q: Fermentation temps ("Dave Draper")
  Once more into the Butt... ("Paul A. Hausman")
  Replies to Dry yeast queries/One comment ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  GABF-bound (KennyEddy)
  Dry Post-Sparge Mash? / Cold Primary, Warm Secondary (KennyEddy)
  Humour (Michael Dransfield)
  Irradiation & Microwaves ("Ian Wilson")
  Converting Kegs, Bulkhead Fittings ("Eric Schoville")
  Cartridge (Omni) filters (David Burki)
  American Porter ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Re: A Style Question ("Brian M. Rezac")
  2nd Dayton Beerfest Results (Mark G Schmitt)
  Sedimented yeast ("Michael E. Dingas")
  Kolsch yeast and tips (Jeremy Price)
  re:"Bring Out The Holy Hand Grenade!" (Denis Barsalo)
  AHA "Guidelines" (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  Full volume boil and hop utilization ("Jeff Beaujon")
  Gravity vs volume ("Houseman, David L")
  The Elusive Igloo ("Jay Spies")
  Wyeast 1968 (Paul Henning)
  Quick disconnect fittings ("Bret A. Schuhmacher")
  Plastic Valves (Ralph Link)
  Mild Mash? ("Tomusiak, Mark")


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Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:00:11 -0600
From: Mike Allred <mballred at xmission.com>
Subject: Wine Yeasts in Beer

Has anyone out there is HBD land ever used wine yeasts with a traditional
beer recipe?  Because of a problem with airation, I had a stuck fermentation
with a brown ale I was brewing.  I had a SG of 1.061 and after about 2 weeks
I racked to my secondary with a SG of 1.033.  I'm pretty sure the problem
was bad airation, but I have had this happen before and a long secondary has
finished the beer nicely.  Well after another 4 weeks I went to bottle.  I
racked to my bottling bucket and added primining sugar.  Then I took a
gravity (I know that I should have taken a gravity before I racked, but I
didn't).  The gravity was at 1.031.  I didn't have any yeast ready to
repitch, none of my brew friends were home and the next 3 days I was going
to be away from home (no quick trip to the brew store the next day to get
yeast).  I thought 'what the hell', racked into a carboy, and pitched 2
packets of dry wine yeast (premier curue and montrachet).  It took off
nicely and was bubbling within hours.  My original yeast was 1028.  I have
kept the ferment temp at 62 deg.  What types of flavors should I expect from
this batch? 
10# Pale 2 row
1# gambrinust Honey 25L
1# special roast
infusion mash at 152 deg
1 oz chinook 11.3AA  bittering only
1028 from slants

I know this is not within the style guidelines for a brown ale, but I do
like the recipe normally.

Also, would the second pitching of yeast eat up any oxygen that was
introduced by the rackings into the bottling bucket and back into the carboy?


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:54:47 -0500
From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb at flash.net>
Subject: LABC Response

After Friday's edition on the HBD, I felt the need to e-mail Mr. Bret
Kimbrough, resident brewer of the Little Apple Brewing Co.  In short, I
asked him what the purpose of his posting of Rob's recipe could be, did he
realize how big of a no-no this was, and did he realize how many brewers
this might get to.  These all seemed to be relevent questions.  His
response follows:

>From: Bkkimbro at aol.com
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:55:32 -0400 (EDT)
>To: mikeb at flash.net
>Subject: Re: Barleywine recipe

>First of all, your first paragraph was completely uncalled for.  There is no
>need to make personal attacks.  As for Rob's career, I worked with Rob at
>LABC.  If you had too, you might understand better why his time there was not
>very extensive.  Look, I am obviously not an HBD subscriber, so I nned you to
>get something to them.  It is a letter written by LABC's general
>manager/owner about this recipe mess.  Maybe it will help clear things up for
>you guys a bit.  Oh and you asked if I think I am a better brewer than Rob?
> Yes, put simply, I do.  Thanks for your reply.  The letter follows:
>
>In response to all you beer/internet geeks who have taken umbrage (which we
>feel was mostly solicited by our former brewer) with our posting of the Big
>Twelve Barleywine on the homebrew website, let me clarify a few facts which
>you pickled minds obviously do not fully comprehend.
>
>1.  Our former brewer was never an owner or partner of the Little Apple
>Brewing Co.; he was merely an employee, just like our dishwashers, waitstaff
>and cooks.
>2.  As an employee of the company, every product (good or bad) he produced
>was the sole property of the company, just as our chef's food is.
>3.  All costs with production, i.e., labor, raw materials, energy, equipment,
>etc., were paid by the company.
>4.  Any formulations and/or recipes he supposedly developed while in our
>employ are, and continue to be, property of the company.
>5.  All entry fees and other costs associated with any awards which may have
>been presented to any of our beers were fully paid by the company.
>6.  Said awards are clearly, under Kansas statutory law, the property of the
>company, although they were removed from the premises without comapny
>consent.
>7.  We can unequivocally state that the company has neve made one penny of
>profit from the sales of the Big Twelve Barleywine. and wee will no longer
>serve the product.
>8.  There is considerable dispute as to who actually developed the recipe.
>9.  As propietary property of the company, we can choose what we want to do
>with the recipe.
>10.  Did I mention the five or six batches of "barleywine" that went down the
>drain because they were unpalatable?
>11.  Our company is in business to make a profit, plain and simple.  To do
>that, I listen to our customers, not our brewer.
>12.  The last time I checked, we were living in a free society.
>In conclusion, let me state, as I hope many of you already realize, that
>people have been brewing fo thousands of years, long before the advent of
>internet drivel and misinformation.  To assume that there are any real
>innovations made anymore is preposterous; everyone steals ideas from everyone
>else and tweaks them according to their own fancy.  What separates the men
>(realists) from the boys (idealists) is the ability to reckon with that
>reality and use it to your advantage.  Furthermore, there is no room in our
>company for anyone who puts their own personal agenda ahead of that of the
>company.  I can proudly say that we now have a brewer who understands the
>importance of the customer and meeting there needs.  Personally, I have more
>important things to do than waste my time on the internet so you won't be
>hearing from me again, ever.  Get a life.
>
>Russ Loub
>Owner/ General Manager
>Little Apple Brewing Co.

Just doing what was requested of me.

Michael T. Bell
Boomerdog Brewing
Arlington, TX



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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:46:41 GMT
From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: Product reveiw request

Hello-

I'm thinking of buying a cartridge injector set-up for traveling kegs.
It's the one made by Williams Brewing. They're the 12 gram co2
cartridges and hook-up to a corny. I'd be interested in what the
owners of these little devices have to say about them.

I brewed my FORD beer yesterday. I had only about 2 1/2 ounces of hops
so I bittered with Northern Brewers and did later kettle additions
with the FORDs. I saved about 2/3 of an ounce for dry hopping. I can
hardly wait till it hits the keg.

 I only mention this to rub Rich Byrnes the wrong way! BTW, I
terrorized my humble community with a Grand Terino station wagon at
age 16. Yhea, I was super cool.

Cheers,
Jason Henning=20
Owner of a Mazda B4000 - Built Ford Tough


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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:06:34 MET-1MET DST
From: sadownik at delta.sggw.waw.pl
Subject: Polish hops

In HBD #2505 Miguel de Salas wrote:
"some European hops, especially Moravian Saaz from the Czech Republik and
some German and Polish hops have had the crop completely wiped out by the
massive flooding during summer"

Hops are grown mainly in the south-eastern part of Poland nearby town of
Lublin which wasn't affected by July flood at all. Actually, due to very
sunny and warm weather in August this year crops are of excellent quality
with an alfa-acids contents above average both in super aromatic (Lubelski)
and bittering (eg Marynka) varietes.
Contrary to what Miguel assumes, the main problem with Polish hops is it's
overproduction, especially of aromatic ones. You know, modern megabreweries
don't mind aroma and count alfa-acids as a bittering input only...
So may be suppliers for home- and craftbrewing will come here to the rescue ?
As I know they are welcome.

dr. Andrzej Sadownik (Agriculture University, Warsaw)
e-mail: sadownik at delta.sggw.waw.pl

P.S. to the best of my knowledge Czech and German hops growing areas
were not hit by summer floods either 


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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:27:54 -0400
From: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu
Subject: BT article on PU

Some HBDer's have commented on apparent typos in my recent "Brewing
Techniques" article on Pilsner Urquell.  Those of you who do not have
access to the magazine may wish to look at the on-line version of the
article at:

"http://realbeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue5.3/urquell.html"

First, the mash temperature rests given in the article (95, 127, 143,
163 deg. F) are correct.  These were supplied by Jaroslav Rous and Pavel
Prucha of the brewery.

Second, the water:malt ratio given in the article (1.85 liters water:1 
kilogram malt) is correct.  This information was also supplied by Rous
and Prucha. 

Prucha has pointed out that the basic procedures for mashing at PU have
not changed in 75 years.  

However, there are a few typos which the editors and I noticed after
publication.  I believe these will also be acknowledged in the next
issue of BT.

First, the table heading on page 54 should read "Dortmunder", not
"Dortmunder Pils".  

Second, the second column on page 55 should cite reference #18, not #19,
when discussing Pilsen water.

Third, the first column on page 58 should say that the lagering tunnels
at PU are 2250 square meters in area, not 2250 square miles (!!).

Nastrovi!

Peter A. Ensminger
ensmingr at npac.syr.edu

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:15:50 -0500
From: Cory Wright <cwright at sun1.anza.com>
Subject: RE: Exploding Carboys

Kent Peetz relates an amusing story of an unanticipated beer shower...

>
I guess I should strain the hops out before using a 5gal carboy as a 
primary.

For other novices out there, USE LARGE BLOW OFF TUBES AND CHECK THEM
OFTEN!
>

True. An easier method would be to use a hop bag- you can pull your hops 
out at the end of the boil and throw them in the trash. (Please don't bring 
up the dogs and hops thread again!!!) This has the added benefit of 
reducing trub in your primary. If you can't get your hands on a hop bag, 
try using an unwanted pair of (clean!  at ;-0 ) pantyhose or nylon stockings - 
they work great!

Checking your fermenting beer often is good advice regardless of what 
method you're using.

Cheers,

Cory Wright


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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:26:18 -6
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu>
Subject: Mash water / Q: Fermentation temps

Dear Friends,

In #2506, Ken Schwartz, discussing various things relating to mash
water volumes, writes:

"What isn't obvious perhaps is the water left in the mashtun.  If the
goal is to keep the liquid level in the mashtun above the grain,
then obviously there is a lot of water left over.  This third
fraction of water is still "needed", but ends up as "waste" and
doesn't make it to your brew."

Subsequent wording in Ken's post implies that the tun still has
enough water to be above the grainbed level at the end of wort
collection.  Either I have been doing something wrong for years or
have simply not been paying attention while reading the digest (or
both!), because I have always let my lauter drain all the way out
after adding the last of my sparge water.  That is, once I have made
my final addition of sparge water (I typically use spatch barging as
has been discussed recently in these pages a fair bit), I go away and
prep the next steps in the process and give the tun time to drain out
as much as it's going to without drastically tipping the tun (my tun
is a cooler that I prop up on one end a bit to get some gravity
working for me).  As far as I can tell I have had few problems
commonly attributed to oversparging, so I'd like to hear what others
do in this regard-- let it drain or leave water above the level of
the grain bed when wort collection is over? 

*******

I have a question about the relative effects of fermentation
temperature during primary and secondary fermentation of ales.  My
motivation is that, although I now have a (working!) brew fridge
that allows me complete control, only one fermentor will fit in there
at a time, and I would like to be able to brew more often than the
time it takes for a batch to go all the way through primary and
secondary fermentation while sitting in the fridge (at least until my
stocks recover from my long hiatus).  If an ale has its primary
fermentation temp controlled by the fridge, say at 68F/20C, until
gravity is only a couple of points above terminal, and I then rack
to a second fermentor that goes to a warmer place (indoors, max
80F/27C), will I lose the advantages I gained by primary-fermenting
at 68/20? Will there be enough yeast activity occurring in the second
fermentor to throw esters and other high-temp fermentation byproducts
that were the reason I got a fridge in the first place?  Many thanks
for any input.

Cheers, 

Dave in Dallas
- ---
*****************************************************************************
   Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083
   ddraper at utdallas.edu (commercial email unwelcome) WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper
                 Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html
Yeast are forgiving unless you really insult them.
    ---Dan McConnell


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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:17:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Paul A. Hausman" <paul at lion.com>
Subject: Once more into the Butt...

Just one more source on the definition/derivation of "butt" (if you
can stand it; and since it was asked for, Michael)

The Oxford English Dictionary, THE source for English language origin
and derivation reports:

"Butt, sb.^2 ME. [com Rom., late L. butta, buttis - cask, wine-skin,
of unkn. origin.]

1. A cask for wine, ale, etc., holding from 108 to 140 gallons.
Later, a measure of capacity = 2 hogsheads, i.e., usually in ale
measure 108 gallons, in wine measure 126 gallons.

2. A cask, barrel (1626)"

- -- 
Paul A. Hausman   <Paul at Lion.com>
Lion Technology Inc., Lafayette, NJ, USA

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:34:05 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Replies to Dry yeast queries/One comment

Fellow HBDers, I have received several replies to my search for quality
dried yeast stock, and I hope that I have replied to each person that
emailed me their suggestions.  If I have forgotten, please forgive my
oversight.

The big three are :
1.  Lallemand/Danstar (nottingham, london, etc.)
2.  Edme
3.  Yeast Lab Dry Lager

These are ranked according to the number of referrals only, not necessarily
according to quality, blah, blah, blah. I am also not affiliated with any
particular company, etc, etc.

Again, I am amazed at the number of messages I received regarding this.
Thanks to all of those that replied to my query.

- -------------------------------------------

My comment centers around the plight of Rob Moline, and the effect of this
on the HBD, and other brewing fora available on the internet.  I have met
with Rob at his new home in Ames, and I can sense that he is ready to begin
again in Ames.  The news that the current brewer has upset the apple cart
regarding the LABCO Barleywine (GABF Gold 1996) recipe is extremely
upsetting to me.  In my naive second/third party conception, I feel that
the revelation was an act of extreme desparation.

It seems that LABCO wants to try to destroy Rob by revealing his recipe,
despite the fact that Rob left LABCO for reasons unrelated to his
relationship with his bosses.  Perhaps LABCO thinks that the recipe was
Rob's SWAN SONG, that this recipe was the best that Rob could do. Perhaps
even that the BW was the only EXCELLENT product he made while employed at
LABCO.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact, this act may
encourage Rob to do even better in the future.  I know he can do it, and
given the chance, he will.  His optimism is contagious, his hospitality
unmatched, his sanitation procedures are beyond criticism, and his beers
are DAMN GOOD. These are all things that can't be taken away. Let's
remember that LABCO often produced infected, spoiled beers before Rob was
hired as head brewer and tracked down the cause and made changes to the
brewing setup.

Chin up, Rob.  You have more friends across the Internet than you will ever
know. Your witty and factual insight has helped to bring more than one
smile to my face, as well as passing along reliable information to the
masses regarding brewing and beer.

I am unsure if emailing Rob's ersatz substitute is going to undo the
problem, however.  Just know that somewhere, someone is keeping track of
this guy's monumental ethical breech, and his brewing reputation will be
permanently damaged as a result. Eventually.

Thanks for the moment of relief, and the bandwidth.

Jeff (now getting back to writing his thesis)

Jeffrey M. Kenton                        "Don't be afraid to go out on a limb,
ElEd/SecEd 201 Teaching Assistant        that's where the fruit is." -
Anonymous
N013 Lagomarcino Hall                    "Information comes, knowledge lingers"
jkenton at iastate.edu                                    - Alfred Lord Tennyson



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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: GABF-bound

Mark Tumarkin suggested an HBD gathering at the GABF this year.  Let's do it!

This will be my first GABF, and I was hoping to meet as many GABF-bound
HBD'ers as possible too, but Mark's idea on a semi-organized meeting is a
great one.  My only concern is that, I would assume, the local brewpubs are
SRO that weekend, which could screw up the logistics of a semi-large group
trying to meet up, especially when we don't know each other by sight!!

I will be helping out some friends at the booth of Las Cruces, New Mexico's
"High Desert Brewing Co", so stop by and say "hey".  Try the IPA and the dark
bock while you're there.  Of course, I hope to be wandering off to other
booths myself occasionally, so some sort of organized meeting would be great
so I can meet as many of you as I can.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:57:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Dry Post-Sparge Mash? / Cold Primary, Warm Secondary

Dave in Dallas asks about my comments on sparge water volume in response to
Ian Wilson's questions of Ray Daniels' brewing water volume calculations:

  "Subsequent wording in Ken's post implies that the tun still has
  enough water to be above the grainbed level at the end of wort
  collection.  Either I have been doing something wrong for years or
  have simply not been paying attention while reading the digest (or
  both!), because I have always let my lauter drain all the way out
  after adding the last of my sparge water."

Without looking at Daniels's calculation methods to come up with the figures,
 I wrote my response based on "floating" the mash for the full sparging
period.  I seem to recall Daniels using this assumption, but I could be
wrong.  Most homebrewing literature alludes to keeping the mash underwater to
avoid compaction, so a mashtun full of spent grain and clear water would be
the post-sparge result.  As a sanity check, Dave, I too usually end up with
at least part of the mash run dry at the end of the sparge.  I was just
trying to explain Daniels' method.

If you're barge spatching, as Dave is, then of course you would run the grain
dry on both runoffs.  This is not however what Ian was doing (as far as I can
tell).

*****

Dave goes on to ask:

  "If an ale has its primary
  fermentation temp controlled by the fridge, say at 68F/20C, until
  gravity is only a couple of points above terminal, and I then rack
  to a second fermentor that goes to a warmer place (indoors, max
  80F/27C), will I lose the advantages I gained by primary-fermenting
  at 68/20? Will there be enough yeast activity occurring in the second
  fermentor to throw esters and other high-temp fermentation byproducts
  that were the reason I got a fridge in the first place?"

A good question I've wondered about too.  Actually I've done this several
times, when I needed to brew more than one batch within a few weeks and
didn't have Fermentation Chiller capacity.  I've noticed no ill effect, **as
long as the initial "active" part of the fermentation is overwith**.  It's
during that portion of the fermentation that off-flavors would be produced en
masse, I assume.  My limited experience in this matter supports that claim.
 Yeast gurus encouraged to comment.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:06:21 -0400
From: Michael_Dransfield at usccmail.lehman.com (Michael Dransfield)
Subject: Humour

Hi all, 

I thought the list might enjoy this:

After the Great Britain Beer Festival, in London, all the brewery 
presidents decided to go out for a beer.  The guy from Corona sits down  
and says "Hey Senor, I would like the world's best beer, a Corona."
The bartender dusts off a bottle from the shelf and gives it to him. 
The guy from Budweiser says "I'd like the best beer in the world, give   
me 'The King Of Beers', a Budweiser."
The bartender gives him one.
The guy from Coors says "I'd like the only beer made with Rocky   
Mountain spring water, give me a Coors."
He gets it.
The guy from Guiness sits down and says "Give me a Coke."
The bartender is a little taken aback, but gives him what he ordered.   
The other brewery presidents look over at him and ask "Why aren't you   
drinking a Guiness?" and the Guiness president replies
"Well, if you guys aren't drinking beer, neither will I." 

sftwb (sorry for the wasted bandwidth)

Best Regards,
Mike Dransfield

PS - Can anyone enlighten me about the "plaid jokes" bits that come up 
every so often? I guess I haven't been around long enough... TIA

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:19:19 -0700
From: "Ian Wilson" <ianw at sosinet.net>
Subject: Irradiation & Microwaves

It was written:

>Irradiation. I'm really asking for it on this one...but...don't we
irradiate
>our food every day when we place it in the microwave? Couldnt you
irradiate
>your wort or even dry hops in the microwave and kill most of the beasties?

Actually, the microwaves are not radiation as in atomic radication. They
are radiation as in radio waves, etc. The small size of the wavelength
allows the wave energy to penetrate the food and excite the small water
molecules within the fodd. This excitation or vibration is what causes the
heat rise because of friction.

Iradiating food to sterilize it uses radioactive soucres to bombard the
food with atomic radiation. The radiation kills the "wee nasties" in much
the same way as the victims of the atomic bomb. 

Yes, you could use the microwave to sterlize your home brew, but you would
need to "boil" all of the items.

Incodentally, I have seen an apple which was wrapped and sealed in a poly
bag before irradiating. Athough the apple was a year old, it was still as
fresh as the day it was sealed and just as juicy. 

The irradiating sources used currently for food prezervation are typically
"low power" ones which can punch through plastic, but not significant
enough to punch through cans. I don't remeber ever hearing or even thinking
about bottles. Point being that it might not be a great sterilizer for
production beer.

Ian WIlson
ianw at sosinet.net

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Date: 15 Sep 97 13:05:17 -0700
From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Converting Kegs, Bulkhead Fittings

Bierfolk,

	I have recently been undertaking a project to convert 
three Sankey kegs for a three-tiered system, and I wanted 
to share my results with cutting out the openings in the 
top of the kegs.  
	For first keg, I used my jigsaw to cut an opening 
in the top of the keg.  I quickly learned that if you want 
to proceed faster than a snails pace, you must stop every 
minute to change blades.  I started with 22 TPI (Teeth per 
Inch) blades, which melted down really quickly, so I 
switched to 14 TPI blades.  I think that if you were to 
start with 14 TPI blades, you could probably do it with 
about 5-7 blades.  Also, I found it very difficult with my 
jigsaw to cut in a circle, so instead I made a hex opening 
by drilling six holes and playing "Connect the Dots".  
Afterwards I ground the edges with a grinding stone in my 
drill.  Total time: four hours.  Cost: About $10.00 for the 
blades.  Another 4 or 5 bucks for the drill bits.
	As I was wandering around the hardware store looking 
for more blades for the next two kegs, I saw a grinding 
wheel for a circular saw.  As people have mentioned using 
one of these before, I decided to try one.  I installed it 
in my circular saw, but when I tried to fit my circular saw 
in the keg to cut, it became apparent that it was not going 
to fit because of the flat "guide" on the bottom of the 
circular saw.  I removed it, and the saw fit on the keg.  
As I started to cut, it became apparent that this is the 
way to do it.  Unlike using the jigsaw, the keg did not 
vibrate to the point of interference (both kegs were half 
full).  Also, it only took approximately 10 minutes to cut 
out a circular opening in each keg and another 10-20 
minutes work with the grinding stone.  I cut freehand, but 
afterwards I realized that I should have traced the hole 
for a lid.  Luckily, a lid from my stock pot fits just 
fine!  Total cost for two kegs: $2.50.  Total time for two 
kegs: ~1 hour.
	The motto when using the grinding wheel is "Safety 
First".  Be sure to wear eye and hearing protection, and I 
recommend jeans, because white hot pieces of metal go 
flying everywhere.  Personally, I deserve the small burn 
marks on my legs, because I was committing a fashion faux-
paux by wearing army boots with shorts.  Unfortunately, the 
little metal shavings went down in my boots!
	My next task is installing some bulkhead fittings.  
Does anyone know where I can find brass bulkhead fittings?  
The plumbing supply stores don't seem to carry them here.

Eric in El Paso 

(Actually I'm in Dallas, but Eric in El Paso sounds better 
than Eric in Dallas)

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:09:58 -0500
From: David Burki <davidb at pdainc.com>
Subject: Cartridge (Omni) filters

I know there has been some discussion about cartridge type (i.e. Omni)
water filters here in the past - both for water 'conditioning' and
(if I remember correctly) filtering beer.  My question is related to
using these filters for wine.  I propose to use this filter by racking
from the fermenter to a garden type pump sprayer, pressurizing the
sprayer and pumping through the filter directly to the bottling wand.
Does anyone have experience with this kind of set-up?  Will it work?

BTW, I would store the filter in a case constructed of PVC pipe,
filled with metabisulfite (sp?).  I would think there should be no
problem filtering 30+ gallons US using a single filter since they
are designed to filter tens of thousands of gallons of water.  Would
a casual rinse with water be sufficient before each use?

TIA. Private email OK.

David
davidb at pdainc.com



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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:57:13 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: American Porter

Mark Wrote:
>I recently brewed a highly hopped porter that turned out excellent, IMHO. I
>want to enter it in a competition to see what kind of response it gets. In
>
 ...
>Basically, I feel my beer is more of a robust porter as far as malt and
>body qualities. The hop bitternes is high - which is fine. The problem is
>that the style guide calls for hop aroma and flavor to be negligible to
>medium - while mine is delightfully high. Since there isn't an 'American
>Porter' catagory, what do style should I enter this under? Someone
>suggested the Specialty catagory. I'd appreciate any input. 

Since you, presumably, want to enter a competition to win an award,
you need to figure out what fault in your beer will count for the least
amount of points deducted.  Looking at a standard score sheet will
help you here.
Aroma is only give 2 out of 50 points, so extra hop aroma won't
hurt you much.  The flavor and "overall impression" sections are
where a judge can take off points if he or she doesn't like some
aspects of the beer.  

Bigger beers tend to do better in competitions than smaller beers,
so, unless your hop flavor and bitterness are completely dominant,
the beer should do fine.  If there are no real flaws in the flavor,
send it in under robust porter.  It will get lost in Specialty.

          - Bryan
            gros at bigfoot.com
            Oakland, CA

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:41:53 -0600
From: "Brian M. Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Re: A Style Question

Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> wrote:
> I recently brewed a highly hopped porter that turned out excellent, IMHO.
I
> want to enter it in a competition to see what kind of response it gets.
In
> looking at the AHA Style guide, I find the following:
>
> >Robust Porter -
> >Hop bitterness is medium to high, with hop aroma and flavor ranging from
> >negligible to medium. 
> 
> >Brown Porter -
> >Low to medium malt sweetness is acceptable along with medium hop
> >bitterness. This is a light- to medium-bodied beer.  Hop flavor and
aroma
> >may vary from being negligible to medium in character. 
>
> Basically, I feel my beer is more of a robust porter as far as malt and
> body qualities. The hop bitternes is high - which is fine. The problem is
> that the style guide calls for hop aroma and flavor to be negligible to
> medium - while mine is delightfully high. Since there isn't an 'American
> Porter' catagory, what do style should I enter this under? Someone
> suggested the Specialty catagory. I'd appreciate any input. 
> 
> Mark Tumarkin
> The Brewery in the Jungle

Mark,

I also would suggest entering your beer in AHA Category #23, Specialty and
Experimental Beer.  More specifically, I would enter it under 23a)
Classic-Style Specialty Beer.  Be sure to list the classic style (Robust
Porter) and the special ingredients (Flavor and Aroma Hops) in the
appropriate line on the entry form.  That way the judges will see that
information when they judge.  You may want to include a note to the
organizer/registrar so they know to include it under "Special Ingredients".

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.  It
sounds like a great beer!

Good Luck & Good Beer!

 -  Brian

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association  (303) 447-0816  x 121   (voice)
736 Pearl Street                              (303) 447-2825   (fax)
PO Box 1679                                 brian at aob.org   (e-mail)
Boulder, CO  80306-1679                info at aob.org     (aob info)
U.S.A.                                        http://beertown.org  (web)




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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:51:28 -0700
From: draft97 at juno.com (Mark G Schmitt)
Subject: 2nd Dayton Beerfest Results

The results from the 2nd Dayton Beerfest competition are available at our
club web site: http://hbd.org/users/draft.  The competition, held on
Saturday September 13th, had 121 entries.  The Best of Show went to Ben
Pollard of Amarillo, TX for his Traditional Bock.  Prizes and score
sheets will be mailed shortly.

Mark Schmitt

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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:23:37 -0400
From: "Michael E. Dingas" <dingasm at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Sedimented yeast

I've only brewed several batches but would like to try using the =
sediment from a Christmas Honey Wheat batch now fermenting.  What is the =
process to do this? Do I need to add anything to the sediment when I'm =
ready to pitch it in the next batch? How much of the sediment should be =
used for a 5-gallon batch? Can I use the sediment in other recipes? Are =
there any other uses for the sediment besides hopping up my septic tank?



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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:31:45 -0400
From: Jeremy Price <pricejy at UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Kolsch yeast and tips

>Subject: Wyeast 2565 (Kolsch)
>
>	Does any one have any notes on the succes of this yeast for making
>a Kolsch, or any other style?  Also, does anyone know what exact Hops are
>used when brewing this syle in Cologne?=20
>
>Nathan Moore
>Denver, CO
>
>
	I have used this yeast to brew several excellent Kolsch clones. In earlier
attempts I have used other yeast strains, but the final product was missing
something. They were good beers, they just were not Kolsch. So far, the
Wyeast Kolsch strain has given me the best results.  I believe there are
three points to follow for reproducing a Kolsch beer.=20

	1) The YEAST! Anyone who claims that a lager yeast can be a substitute is
(IMHO) wrong. This style of beer originated before true bottom fermenting
strains were even isolated. True Kolsch yeasts are top fermenting  S.
cerevisiae that are also somewhat active lower temperatures. Without the
correct yeast, you just don't get that Kolsch "snap." If you have ever had
a real one, you will know what I mean.=20
=20
	2) Ferment at a low ale temp, then be sure to cold condition for at least
a month at 10=BAC. The extended cold conditioning cleans up the esters, and
allows the flavors to mellow. This cold conditioning step is probably why
Kolsch is sometimes confused with lagers.=20
=09
	3) Use good German Malted barley & toss in a pinch (less than 1/2 lb in 5
gal) of wheat. This adds a subtle touch of friutiness, as well as inproved
head retention.=20

Traditionally noble hops are used especially Spalt or Hallertau. (Saaz can
be used in place of Spalt) (don't over do the flavoring hops)=20

Jeremy Price
pricejy at popmail.uc.edu

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:07:47 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at CAM.ORG>
Subject: re:"Bring Out The Holy Hand Grenade!"

Rob Moline:

>	Your questions about water are best answered by someone who knows the
>subject, like Kenny Eddy....but with bottled spring water, you can take the
>Jethro approach and just go for it....(there is not enough info to try to
>answer the question....which spring?,....what's in it?...etc,) .....R.O.
>water will definitely require some salts......

	I wouldn't say "definitely"! I use R.O. water all the time and i
only add a little bit of salts when I'm brewing ales. For my last two
batches (pilsners), I didn't add anything to the water and they both turned
out great!!!

Denis



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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:33:09 -0400
From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu
Subject: AHA "Guidelines"


Dave Draper brings up the issue of the AHA Kolsh "guidelines" and their
apparent inaccuracy based upon George Fix's attempts at duplicating real
examples of this style.  I would like to second the motion and highlight
similar discrepancies between the AHA guidelines for Alt beer and the
analysis of commercially available Alt beers in Germany.  Ray Daniels, in
his fine book "Designing Great Beers" provides tables analyzing specific
examples of Alt beers from Germany.  When you compare those to the AHA
guidelines, they look like different beers.  The only "Alt" beer that I
have tasted commercially is Schmaltz's which, I think and I think I have
heard others mention, is out of style.  I have tasted other brewers
interpretation of the Alt style, based upon on particular persons
interpretation of the style, and they remind me of a brown ale fermented
with WYeast 1007.

I'd like to hear more about these styles and why the AHA guidelines don't
fit what is being produced in Germany.

Thanks.
Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI



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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:03:53 +0000
From: "Jeff Beaujon" <jmb at mailhost.bellhow.com>
Subject: Full volume boil and hop utilization

Hi,
  I recently obtained a 40 qt Volrath pot and was finally able to do
my first full volume boil (5 gal). One thing I noticed was much more 
bitterness than the same recipe done with a partial boil.  The recipe 
is a Pale Ale as follows:

6# M&F light DME
8 oz 60 deg crystal
2 oz Cascade pellets 5.5% (bittering)
 .5 oz Cascade pellets (flavoring)
1.5 tsp irish moss
1.5 oz Cascade pellets (aroma)

I actually used a little less than 2 oz for bittering since the recipe
called for 10 AAU.  For my partial boils I would typically boil about 3 
gal and then top up to 5 gal in the fermenter.  This time I boiled 6 gal,
which yielded somewhere between 5.0 and 5.5 gal after a 60 min boil.  Now
I've heard that hop utilization increases with the volume of the boil so 
my question is this: Is there a general rule of thumb for decreasing the 
amount of hops used in a full volume boil to achieve the same bitterness 
that I was getting in a partial boil ?  Does it depend on the hop variety, 
AA%, malt, other ?  How bout the hardness of the water ?  Also, is there 
a difference in utilization among pellets, plugs and leaf ?

Any suggestions/information would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

Jeff Beaujon
Stow, Ohio
- ---
Jeff (x6476)

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:49:42 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Gravity vs volume

Spencer said,
"This is pretty close.  You'll lose a little bit of gravity to
precipitated protein, and you've got to count in the wort that's left
behind with the hops in your total."

While you will lose some wort that is left behind in the hops, you'll be
losing wort at the same gravity so the gravity isn't affected by the
wort left behind.  You'll have less wort but it's all at the same
gravity, maybe 4.75 gallons at 1.048.

Dave Houseman


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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:27:30 +0000
From: "Jay Spies" <spiesjl at mda.state.md.us>
Subject: The Elusive Igloo

To The Esteemed Collective :

I am in the midst of making the jump from extract to all-grain 
(grail?) ;-) and would like to use a 7 or 10 gallon cylindrical 
Gott/Igloo to serve as a sparge vessel, and a second to hold the 
sparge water.

My problem lies in the fact that I can't find the $% at #-ing things 
anywhere.  Tried Wal-Mart, Sunny's Surplus, sporting goods stores, et 
cetera, ad nauseum.  I would gladly order them through the mail, but I 
don't know where to get a catalog that carries them.  Help !  >:-/

If someone could arrange to send me the appropriate catalog, or 
perhaps arrange to ship it to me themselves (good brew samaritans that 
you are), I would be happy to pay costs (plus a return sample of the 
ensuing first all-grain batch - sans botulism, I hope) - (sorry, 
couldn't resist :-)

In order to avoid wasting needless bandwidth, private e-mail can be 
sent to  spiesjl at mda.state.md.us   

>>  insert snappy quote here <<

Thanks in advance.
Jay Spies


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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:39:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Henning <phenning at cs.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Wyeast 1968


To kick-off my brewing season, I thought that I would brew a British
best/special bitter in honor of my visit to the CAMRA Real Ale
festival in August (yum!).  I also decided to finally get away from
using 1028 for all my British bitter/pale ale/IPA creations and picked
Wyeast 1968 "Special London/London ESB" pretty much at random.

When the smack-pack arrived, I was a bit suprised to see that this
fell under Wyeast's "Advanced Yeast" designation, so I went and looked
it up on the Wyeast cross-reference 
"http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/yeast/wyeast.html" (thanks
Alan!) where it describes 1968 as:

  Highly flocculant top-fermenting strain with rich, malty character and
  balanced fruitiness. This strain is so flocculant that additional
  aeration is needed. An excellent strain for cask-conditioned ales.
      Flocculation - high; apparent attenuation - 67-71%.

It is easy to see that the yeast is highly flocculant from my first
starter.  I'm uncertain how to handle this during fermentation.  Do I
gently stir the yeast back into suspension with an appropriately
sanitized device?  I do my primaries in a 6.5g carboy.  Is this a
candidate for dropping?  

I'm brewing on Wednesday, so comments about pitching techniques will
be welcome but a little too late.  I always do at least a one pint ->
one quart starter and aerate like mad, so hopefully that will carry me
through that stage.

Thanks and Cheers!

Paul Henning	     Iowa City, IA
THIRSTY Homebrewers  http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~phenning/thirsty

P.S.  Hey Jethro, how about setting up a brewpub in Iowa City?  Pleeezzee!!!!!

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:26:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bret A. Schuhmacher" <bas at healthcare.com>
Subject: Quick disconnect fittings

Hey Homebrewers,

Does anyone have a source for female to female fittings that fit the
threaded keg quick disconnects (3/16" NPT?).  I had a guy at the local
hardware store make me one with 2 flares and a section of copper
tubing, but it leaks.  Ideally I'd like something like 2 flares welded
together, but that might make it hard to twist on other pieces.  I've
checked all three hardware stores in town with no luck (I live in a
*really* small town).

Thanks,

Bret
Bad Dog Brewery, Montrose, Colorado
- --
"We are upping our standards ... so up yours."
		-- Pat Paulsen for President, 1988.

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:31:24 -0500
From: Ralph Link <rlink at minet.gov.mb.ca>
Subject: Plastic Valves

Does anyone know if it possible to use high temp. plastic ball valves on a
whole grain system. I am told that there is a valve call a C PVC valve that
can take the high temps. If you know anything about this please respond via
e-mail 
Thanks 
Ralph Link
"Some people dream of success------while others wake up and work at it.


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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:54:36 -0700
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com>
Subject: Mild Mash?

Greetings all...I have been contemplating brewing up a tasty dark mild
for the coming fall, and turned to the book "Brew Your Own Real Ale At
Home" (Wheeler and Protz) for suggestions.  The book includes many
recipes for mild ales, and also some interesting mash conditions.  Most
of the mild ale recipes have an associated mash temp of 63 C (145 F),
and estimated terminal gravities in the 1.005 to 1.007 range.  I have
never used such low saccharification temperatures for a mash before, and
I'm curious as to why this would be suggested for this particular style
of beer.  Any comments would be appreciated, 

Mark Tomusiak
Boulder, Colorado

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---